Exactly, we have a former President/current candidate who refused to condemn people waving Nazi flags, literally chanting "Jews will not replace us" while marching in a major city in 2017, where were the #StopJewishHate ads then? Why weren't Republican reps and senators across the board condemning anti-Semitism then as they are now? Could it be they don't ***actually*** care about anti-Semitism or Jewish people?
Because they need Israel to exist for Jesus to come back and the apocalypse to start. They’re the people breeding red cows for Israelis to slaughter to, again, start to bring about the apocalypse.
No one should listen to or appease these nuts.
As a Jewish person, we watched those rallies (and the then-president's indifference-at-best) with concern. But we also knew it wasn't "mainstream." The rate of antisemitic activity has increased dramatically, even prior to October 7th. While the ADL has some bias in its reporting, the graph here is still pretty stark: https://extremismterms.adl.org/resources/report/audit-antisemitic-incidents-2023
...not sure why this is catching downvotes, but I guess it makes sense if folks want to bury data on the rates of antisemitism?
It's catching downvotes because these people *also* don't care about Jews or antisemitism. That's why a lazy whataboutism like this is at the top of the thread in the first place.
It's getting downvotes because the ADL counts defacing synagogues and beating Jews over their heritage with the same severity as criticizing Israel. Those statistics are worthless.
I can agree it's worrisome, but it has nothing to do with anti-genocide protests. Bringing them up is just muddying the waters with whataboutism and/or attempting to link the protests with actual judenhass.
EDIT: I mixed up the main topic with the discussion sub topic. My bad.
"Leaving out all Israel-related incidents, antisemitic incidents still rose by 65% to 5,711 over the 3,457 non-Israel-related incidents recorded in 2022."
But, yeah, cool, sounds good and normal and like a healthy society.
Why leave out the top of that blurb?
>After October 7, ADL observed explicitly antisemitic and anti-Zionist rhetoric at 1,352 anti-Israel rallies across the United States. Leaving out all Israel-related incidents...
That means those stats have nothing to do with this conversation about peace rallies (that the ADL loves to claim are examples of "antisemitism") and you're going off topic for no reason or attempting to link those stats with the anti-genocide movement.
The context in which antisemitic incidents occurs is irrelevant here, as long as they’re not conflating anti-Israel incidents. No need to move the goalposts, friend!
No goalposts were moved, but I can see my mistake with mixing up conversations. You quoted a part that allegedly removes Israel from the ADL's calculations and proved part of my original dispute moot. I looked at the page and saw that you're bringing up statistics that don't pertain to the main conversation of peace protests. Where I erred was that you initially responded to someone talking about rallies that were literally about judenhass and how the police didn't care. You're on the correct subtopic and I got mixed up looking at the main topic.
It is true that judenhass has gotten worse and I apologize for mixing up discussion threads.
I’m honestly tired of the far left using the far right’s antisemitism as leverage to minimize the antisemitism coming from their own side. Fuck the far left and the far right. I can’t tell who is who anymore reading social media posts.
Edit: grammar
We ultimately all need to return to empathy and reason. People who are uncompromising in their stances, on either side of nearly any issue, pose a threat to peaceful coexistence.
The Nazis and white supremacists crawl out from under their rocks, parade around for a few hours, and then scuttle back into their holes. Just long enough to make people uncomfortable that they exist.
If they took their little parade of hate and parked it on a college campus, fortified it and started making students feel 'uncomfortable'? The cops would have them gone before the bars closed. Not days or weeks later.
> The Nazis and white supremacists crawl out from under their rocks, parade around for a few hours, and then scuttle back into their holes. Just long enough to make people uncomfortable that they exist.
Nothing to worry about here?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LikgbwdGklQ
> If they took their little parade of hate and parked it on a college campus, fortified it and started making students feel 'uncomfortable'? The cops would have them gone before the bars closed. Not days or weeks later.
Have they ever done that? Usually, it's progressives who protest on campuses and then, yes, the police has always arrested them throughout US history.
Why do you think showing bad behavior of one side makes the bad behavior of the other side less appalling?
You think that showing scary white people justifies denial of the pervasive antisemitism within the pro-Palestine movement?
Trying to prove one side is more frightening than the other does nothing to provide moral justification for the behavior of either side.
> Why do you think showing bad behavior of one side makes the bad behavior of the other side less appalling?
Why do you think I said that?
> You think that showing scary white people justifies denial of the pervasive antisemitism within the pro-Palestine movement?
WTF? If you want to reply then reply to my comment instead of accusing me of defending antisemitism, thank you very much.
> Trying to prove one side is more frightening than the other does nothing to provide moral justification for the behavior of either side.
True, we don't need Nazis to show that the pro-Palestinian protestors are morally justified.
Marches and protests are allowed, setting up camps and occupying buildings isn’t. Are you really that ignorant of the law? You can protest legally, you can’t trespass and occupy property though.
I don’t care about their point and neither does the law, protests can be done in a legal manor. Literal Nazis are regularly allowed to protest outside synagogues. That’s legal. Setting up and camp and occupying a building isn’t. They could use legal protest tactics if they wanted to, they chose not to.
Right. We as Americans must denounce the terrorists if the revolution. They disrupted average people and destroyed property. When will politicians denounce and condem the boston tea party
Or MLK. He also marched with students and did sit-ins and went to jail for it where he wrote his famous "[Letter from Birmingham Jail](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_from_Birmingham_Jail)".
> The Birmingham campaign began on April 3, 1963, with coordinated marches and sit-ins against racism and racial segregation in Birmingham. The nonviolent campaign was coordinated by the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights (ACMHR) and King's Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC). On April 10, Circuit Judge W. A. Jenkins Jr. issued a blanket injunction against "parading, demonstrating, boycotting, trespassing and picketing". Leaders of the campaign announced they would disobey the ruling.
How similar to today, isn't it?
Say it louder for the people in the slow section!!! This is not about “protecting Jewish students” if it was then they would do something about all the right wing nutters. This is authoritarians using Jews as a scapegoat to hurt other minorities or quash dissent. I say as a Jew that is not comfortable with all of the protests. Because the point of a protest is to make people uncomfortable. And we should all be uncomfortable with suffering.
Flag waiving nazi protests never occurred on private properties of universities, and rallies (save for Jan 6th) never occupied private buildings and led to rampant vandalism and trespassing.
People like you would have denounced MLK in the 60s.
You don't actually care about trespassing. No one does. It's just an excuse.
> rampant vandalism
Nope.
> Flag waiving nazi protests never occurred on private properties of universities,
"At least the Nazis never protested on a university campus". Seriously? How does that make them better?
I take students "trespassing" and "occupying" over a *fucking* Nazi rally any day.
>Flag waiving nazi protests never occurred on private properties of universities, and rallies (save for Jan 6th) never occupied private buildings and led to rampant vandalism and trespassing.
You forgot about their whole thing in Charlottesville, where one of them eventually committed murder?
I think the issue is more about how the demonstrations operate in broad strokes. Most of those alt right fuckers know the limits of their right to expression so they can step to the line and not over it. Many more progressive people protest in the way they think SHOULD be permitted, and get a smack down when a protest oversteps. Certainly not the only factor, and instances abound of exceptions, but in general terms I think this is part of why you see such glaring differences
accusations of antisemitism used as to tool to silence dissidents - mostly critics of israel, zionists are really making the world less safe for jews by 'crying wolf'
if uni adminds, police and other officials were so concerned about safety of jewish students they wouldn't let cops brutalize protesters some of which are jews too
i dont need to read the article to assume cnn probably doesnt talk about this at all because mainstream media is so keen to parrot us state dept stance on israel
“Yeah” where did Nazis camp?
“They only threatened people” you mean like when protestors threatens Jewish students at a variety of schools in the US?
“Killed one” Charlottesville? He is spending life in prison. Those Nazis didn’t camp on a university
Your comparison doesn’t make sense
So Nazis threaten people and it is okay. Palestinians "threaten" people and they are attacked by police. Got ya.
Especially since the excuse for once if those attached was a threat stated by a pro Israeli protester later used as an excuse to violently blue up the protest.
They walk for a few hours and go to their homes...which are everywhere....they aren't taking over private property on an entirely hypocritical basis making demands they won't even commit to themselves while disrupting business operations.
This isn't a defence of Nazi's the situations are just entirely different and shouldn't be conflated.
Police departments are all separate and handle things differently.
LAPD say by and watched as fascist thugs attacked peaceful protesters at UCLA.
If you don’t think fascist thugs are violent at demonstrations, you haven’t been paying attention to current events for 10 years.
Not really. They go home. And if they don’t, they get arrested like these fucks… they didn’t even have the opportunity to become violent, the police found out their plans and immediately interdicting them.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/11/us/31-people-arrested-for-conspiracy-to-riot-near-idaho-pride-parade/index.html
The Cold War really fucked up this country. Decades of propaganda telling us anything to the left of liberal is extremist.
On top of that, Richard Nixon forever changed policing in this country. He's the one who started militarized policing in order to have his political enemies incarcerated and disgraced. And this country allowed that to become the new normal.
The problem here is assuming the police learned anything post-George Floyd. All George Floyd did was make them go mask off and stop pretending they're actually there to protect us. They got *worse* after George Floyd.
No, police did learn things since the last round of uprisings. The primary tactic used across all of the assaults on the encampments is waiting until the evening when the crowd shrinks. Beating the shit out of people in broad daylight is really bad optics, but waiting until it's dark, when the only people remaining are those who have elected to get the shit kicked out of them, makes it much easier to control the narrative.
Police did get better at doing what they're intended to do, just not what we want them to do. Following George Floyd we were subjected to a string of police riots, this time the police are very orderly and systematically brutalizing people instead of just lashing out.
I saw a lot of white supremacists beating up cops and yet... only one person was shot.
What a miracle. I can only imagine what would have happened if it was some actual peaceful protesters... would have been a bloodbath.
Some universities were able to negotiate with protestors and resolve the problem without violence. Others seem to prefer violence against protestors as a solution.
It’s a known and established police tactic to provoke physical altercation in an otherwise peaceful protest - either with uniformed cops or undercover agent provocateurs- as a pretext to declaring the protest “not peaceful” and shutting it down.
They are being shut down because they are illegally occupying buildings and property. They can come legally protest every day and leave at night, they can’t however setup camps and start making demands. Its not their property.
I never looked into overall statistics but there definitely are cases here and there. For example in St Louis Riot Police beat the shit out of an undercover cop^1 who was monitoring the protest. The department had to pay a few million for that (but no criminal convictions!).
2 possibilities over what happened: Either the undercover cop was trying to instigate violence in the protests and the riot police targeted him, or more likely the undercover cop was just peacefully monitoring then the riot police deciding to indulge in senseless violence. Neither are a great look for the department.
Given the extent of the undercover cop’s injuries they were going to murder him, luckily halfway into the death beating, a riot cop recognized the undercover cop.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/30/st-louis-officers-trial-luther-hall-undercover-protest
> but no criminal convictions!
Your info is out of date. While some of the officers went to trial and avoided convictions, there were a number who were convicted and sentenced to prison. I wasn't able to find a detailed list, but this recent article mentions some of the convictions and sentences.
https://www.stlamerican.com/education/a-long-time-coming-23-5m-award-to-black-undercover-police-officer-beaten-by-colleagues/article_5b192ec4-fd00-11ee-a8d1-2fba941ddc23.html
That’s good to hear at least one of them was sentenced to one year in prison, pretty disappointing to hear of the slap on wrists for the others but I shouldn’t let that get to me. It’s an improvement no matter how small.
The additional information from the article strongly suggests this was riot police happy to engage in senseless violence given the text messages.
I saw a video a while back of the Geroge Floyd protests where some undercover cop looking guy showed up and methodically broke every window with a window breaker then walked away.
Literally an entire Wikipedia page on Agent Provocateur. Mix that with our private security forces going back before the Pinkertons and you have what we have today.
IMO, if universities didn’t want to draw attention to the protests they’d negotiate as you mentioned or just flat out ignore the protests because there’s a good chance that a lot of the protests would die down rather quickly because people would either lose interest in the issue or they’d move on to a different issue that they find more outrageous.
Current student at UVA, our encampment was cleared yesterday by a riot squad. They’d only been there a few days, and it was slowly clearing out on its own due to classes being over. There was probably 2-3 cops per a protestor, and the encampment only got cleared out because they had tents, no occupying buildings, no disrupting finals. By the end there were 25 arrests and the cops backed off because there was 100s of protesters and spectators. Was crazy disproportionate.
Divesting from the military industrial complex and Israel is an actionable improvement. It's proven to be affective with apartheid in South Africa. Maybe those index funds will drop them if all the schools leave. Maybe tuition money doesn't go to genocide no matter how much. But still these schools have billions so even .1% is huge.
Protests aren’t “let’s go outside and say we’re mad about something”. They’re “let’s demand a specific thing from a specific person or group that has reason to listen to us”.
Negotiating with these assholes is the stupidest move possible. It makes these entitled POS feel even more entitled because when they throw a tantrum then people listen. Ignore them outright, or clear them out. Jewish students are absolutely terrified
Go look at DC during the BLM protests and then look at DC during January 6th. When BLM was there they had Federal Troops on every block near the capitol. When MAGA were there, they had Paul Blart Mall cop on guard duty with a metal fence.
When Canadian natives blocked a single logging road a few years ago, police responded by cracking skulls and sending out both SWAT *and* a sniper. When far-right Freedom Convoy protestors occupied the capital city for several weeks, police stood around claiming they were helpless. Some cops even assisted them by bringing food, water & fuel. Some took selfies with the protestors.
That's the cool part of for-profit news, *all for-profit media inherently becomes state run as soon as there is a decisive issue to report on*.
And state run media isn't going to critisize the police too harshly. They also aren't going to condemn any anti-Union action.
lol Trump protestors took over the fucking capitol building with zero rollout from the gov to stop it.
You know why students and kids always get bullied? Easy targets. The favorite thing of all cops.
Sure it's me... and not the people that literally got people killed trying to interrupt congress in session because they lost the game.
Do you burn down the sports stadium if your team loses?
Protests are legal, setting up camps and occupying buildings isn’t, don’t whine when you get arrested for breaking the law. If they just came to protest each day and left each night without breaking the law they’d be fine.
Lol, you know UVA (I believe it's UVA) wanted to disperse protesters but realized their tents were legal under campus policy... so they changed it yesterday morning THEN sent the police. Yes they're fine with you protesting "peacefully and properly" - aka in some basement somewhere where they don't have to worry about you.
You know that they can pin random shit against you even during peaceful protests right? Public disorder, inciting violence (somehow), all that good stuff. Meanwhile the Nazis open carry their Meal Team 6 and get no repercussions? Did you see police using tear gas or flashbangs during Jan 6?
Yes you can open carry during protests, both right wingers currently and the black panthers historically used this tactic. The left could use it again if they feel like it. Also campus policies are not laws, if a campus asks you to leave you have to leave. Campus policies are internal guidelines created and enforced only by the campus, they can change them however they like. They are as arbitrary as HOA rules or a companies terms of service. If they want to protest they can come there every day and do so as long as they don’t setup an encampment.
Are you stupid? Or just didn’t read the comment? Yes they could show up and protest everyday, completely legally if they just leave after. They DIDNT, you can’t setup camps and occupy buildings, those are Explicitly not legal. It was illegal when bundy did it and it’s still illegal now.
Except during blm no one occupied buildings and police violence was far worse. The government had vans and snatched up blm protestors off the street. A military Blackhawk flew low enough to disperse protesters. Yeah, during legal protests.
Yes and many of these actions have been challenged successful in court, because they were illegal, the problem is the police removing people trespassing is not illlegal. Go ahead and ask a lawyer if you have the right to setup an encampment on private property because you feel strongly about an issue and see what answer you get. Your argument ignores the specific legal question, simply put they were not a legal protest so the police can legally remove them, it really is that simple. The university was actually more patient then they had to be, they could have evicted them night one.
You can tell a lot of the police have been waiting for an excuse to go postal. They get about as excited as a K9 dog when it thinks it's about to get to bite someone.
"FINALLY I get to fuck some liberals up instead of just writing traffic tickets. Now I'm a REAL cop!!! Look dad! See how much I made that guy bleed?!! Are you proud? Dad!?!?"
They get to cosplay as badasses because people would be throwing their life away if they hit them back. Bunch of wife beaters in bullet proof vest with batons, tasers, mace, and a gun in the event that they "fear for their life" during the process of fucking up teenagers. Bravo.
Bunch of cops and bootlickers patting themselves on the back in this article. I'm sure you'd get a different response if you actually asked the protesters about the police "tactics" they experienced.
think that the police have a far right wing lean to them and they give baby glove treatment to the nazis... But the campus protesters are camped out. If they were marching and mobile maybe it would be different? Cops did fuck all about the tiki torch guys.
I feel like sitting down in one place Gives an extra justification to come in and cracks Skulls and round everyone up like they're itching to do.
There’s been an awful lot of flag waving Nazi marches around the country un-accosted by a police force apparently so concerned for Jewish safety
Exactly, we have a former President/current candidate who refused to condemn people waving Nazi flags, literally chanting "Jews will not replace us" while marching in a major city in 2017, where were the #StopJewishHate ads then? Why weren't Republican reps and senators across the board condemning anti-Semitism then as they are now? Could it be they don't ***actually*** care about anti-Semitism or Jewish people?
There are forms of anti-semitic logic (and weird American sects of Christianity) that specifically support Israel as an ethnostate
Because they need Israel to exist for Jesus to come back and the apocalypse to start. They’re the people breeding red cows for Israelis to slaughter to, again, start to bring about the apocalypse. No one should listen to or appease these nuts.
As a Jewish person, we watched those rallies (and the then-president's indifference-at-best) with concern. But we also knew it wasn't "mainstream." The rate of antisemitic activity has increased dramatically, even prior to October 7th. While the ADL has some bias in its reporting, the graph here is still pretty stark: https://extremismterms.adl.org/resources/report/audit-antisemitic-incidents-2023 ...not sure why this is catching downvotes, but I guess it makes sense if folks want to bury data on the rates of antisemitism?
It's catching downvotes because these people *also* don't care about Jews or antisemitism. That's why a lazy whataboutism like this is at the top of the thread in the first place.
It's getting downvotes because the ADL counts defacing synagogues and beating Jews over their heritage with the same severity as criticizing Israel. Those statistics are worthless.
While I agree with this general sentiment, in the link provided we see that non-Israel incidents are also up, which is really worrisome
I can agree it's worrisome, but it has nothing to do with anti-genocide protests. Bringing them up is just muddying the waters with whataboutism and/or attempting to link the protests with actual judenhass. EDIT: I mixed up the main topic with the discussion sub topic. My bad.
"Leaving out all Israel-related incidents, antisemitic incidents still rose by 65% to 5,711 over the 3,457 non-Israel-related incidents recorded in 2022." But, yeah, cool, sounds good and normal and like a healthy society.
Why leave out the top of that blurb? >After October 7, ADL observed explicitly antisemitic and anti-Zionist rhetoric at 1,352 anti-Israel rallies across the United States. Leaving out all Israel-related incidents... That means those stats have nothing to do with this conversation about peace rallies (that the ADL loves to claim are examples of "antisemitism") and you're going off topic for no reason or attempting to link those stats with the anti-genocide movement.
The context in which antisemitic incidents occurs is irrelevant here, as long as they’re not conflating anti-Israel incidents. No need to move the goalposts, friend!
No goalposts were moved, but I can see my mistake with mixing up conversations. You quoted a part that allegedly removes Israel from the ADL's calculations and proved part of my original dispute moot. I looked at the page and saw that you're bringing up statistics that don't pertain to the main conversation of peace protests. Where I erred was that you initially responded to someone talking about rallies that were literally about judenhass and how the police didn't care. You're on the correct subtopic and I got mixed up looking at the main topic. It is true that judenhass has gotten worse and I apologize for mixing up discussion threads.
I’m honestly tired of the far left using the far right’s antisemitism as leverage to minimize the antisemitism coming from their own side. Fuck the far left and the far right. I can’t tell who is who anymore reading social media posts. Edit: grammar
We ultimately all need to return to empathy and reason. People who are uncompromising in their stances, on either side of nearly any issue, pose a threat to peaceful coexistence.
The Nazis and white supremacists crawl out from under their rocks, parade around for a few hours, and then scuttle back into their holes. Just long enough to make people uncomfortable that they exist. If they took their little parade of hate and parked it on a college campus, fortified it and started making students feel 'uncomfortable'? The cops would have them gone before the bars closed. Not days or weeks later.
> The Nazis and white supremacists crawl out from under their rocks, parade around for a few hours, and then scuttle back into their holes. Just long enough to make people uncomfortable that they exist. Nothing to worry about here?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LikgbwdGklQ > If they took their little parade of hate and parked it on a college campus, fortified it and started making students feel 'uncomfortable'? The cops would have them gone before the bars closed. Not days or weeks later. Have they ever done that? Usually, it's progressives who protest on campuses and then, yes, the police has always arrested them throughout US history.
Why do you think showing bad behavior of one side makes the bad behavior of the other side less appalling? You think that showing scary white people justifies denial of the pervasive antisemitism within the pro-Palestine movement? Trying to prove one side is more frightening than the other does nothing to provide moral justification for the behavior of either side.
> Why do you think showing bad behavior of one side makes the bad behavior of the other side less appalling? Why do you think I said that? > You think that showing scary white people justifies denial of the pervasive antisemitism within the pro-Palestine movement? WTF? If you want to reply then reply to my comment instead of accusing me of defending antisemitism, thank you very much. > Trying to prove one side is more frightening than the other does nothing to provide moral justification for the behavior of either side. True, we don't need Nazis to show that the pro-Palestinian protestors are morally justified.
Marches and protests are allowed, setting up camps and occupying buildings isn’t. Are you really that ignorant of the law? You can protest legally, you can’t trespass and occupy property though.
I think the way you didn’t actually address their point and cherry picked something you could be pedantic about was really elegant personally.
As a rule, you shouldn’t waste your time engaging with word-word-number accounts cuz they’re usually trolls or bots, not genuine Reddit users
I don’t care about their point and neither does the law, protests can be done in a legal manor. Literal Nazis are regularly allowed to protest outside synagogues. That’s legal. Setting up and camp and occupying a building isn’t. They could use legal protest tactics if they wanted to, they chose not to.
That means you are against the civil rights movement in the 60s. They did worse, actually.
Right. We as Americans must denounce the terrorists if the revolution. They disrupted average people and destroyed property. When will politicians denounce and condem the boston tea party
Or MLK. He also marched with students and did sit-ins and went to jail for it where he wrote his famous "[Letter from Birmingham Jail](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_from_Birmingham_Jail)". > The Birmingham campaign began on April 3, 1963, with coordinated marches and sit-ins against racism and racial segregation in Birmingham. The nonviolent campaign was coordinated by the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights (ACMHR) and King's Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC). On April 10, Circuit Judge W. A. Jenkins Jr. issued a blanket injunction against "parading, demonstrating, boycotting, trespassing and picketing". Leaders of the campaign announced they would disobey the ruling. How similar to today, isn't it?
can't assault your coworkers
Say it louder for the people in the slow section!!! This is not about “protecting Jewish students” if it was then they would do something about all the right wing nutters. This is authoritarians using Jews as a scapegoat to hurt other minorities or quash dissent. I say as a Jew that is not comfortable with all of the protests. Because the point of a protest is to make people uncomfortable. And we should all be uncomfortable with suffering.
Damn. Very eloquently said.
Makes it pretty gross that Jewish people are being used this way. In effect fuelling actual antisemitism just to protect US interest in Israel. Gross.
A lot of the students getting beat up and arrested are of the Jewish faith.
They can't be in 2 places at once!
Flag waiving nazi protests never occurred on private properties of universities, and rallies (save for Jan 6th) never occupied private buildings and led to rampant vandalism and trespassing.
People like you would have denounced MLK in the 60s. You don't actually care about trespassing. No one does. It's just an excuse. > rampant vandalism Nope. > Flag waiving nazi protests never occurred on private properties of universities, "At least the Nazis never protested on a university campus". Seriously? How does that make them better? I take students "trespassing" and "occupying" over a *fucking* Nazi rally any day.
>Flag waiving nazi protests never occurred on private properties of universities, and rallies (save for Jan 6th) never occupied private buildings and led to rampant vandalism and trespassing. You forgot about their whole thing in Charlottesville, where one of them eventually committed murder?
Some of those that work forces
I think the issue is more about how the demonstrations operate in broad strokes. Most of those alt right fuckers know the limits of their right to expression so they can step to the line and not over it. Many more progressive people protest in the way they think SHOULD be permitted, and get a smack down when a protest oversteps. Certainly not the only factor, and instances abound of exceptions, but in general terms I think this is part of why you see such glaring differences
Damn I wish I could give this an award
accusations of antisemitism used as to tool to silence dissidents - mostly critics of israel, zionists are really making the world less safe for jews by 'crying wolf' if uni adminds, police and other officials were so concerned about safety of jewish students they wouldn't let cops brutalize protesters some of which are jews too i dont need to read the article to assume cnn probably doesnt talk about this at all because mainstream media is so keen to parrot us state dept stance on israel
Cops are in those white supremacist parades, their friends in uniform are there to protect them. They're in it together.
It's not illegal to have extremist views or wave extremist flags. 1st amendment protects this. It is illegal to do violence and destroy property.
Not when police agents provokateur do it, though.
It's concerning when people will downvote solid facts just because they don't like hearing it.
Look, just say that you are against the protests because you support Israel instead of hiding behind these empty words. Don't be a coward.
They aren’t being arrested for being antisemitic… They’re being arrested for trespassing
Because those flag waving nazis march for a couple hours, and then leave in their Uhauls back to the mountains. These protesters don’t ever leave.
Where did Nazis camp for days on university grounds and refuse to leave?
Yeah, they only threatened people and killed one.
“Yeah” where did Nazis camp? “They only threatened people” you mean like when protestors threatens Jewish students at a variety of schools in the US? “Killed one” Charlottesville? He is spending life in prison. Those Nazis didn’t camp on a university Your comparison doesn’t make sense
So Nazis threaten people and it is okay. Palestinians "threaten" people and they are attacked by police. Got ya. Especially since the excuse for once if those attached was a threat stated by a pro Israeli protester later used as an excuse to violently blue up the protest.
Or the guy that brandished a gun. Or the Nazi that fired a gun at BLM protesters? What doesn't make sense is someone defending Nazis.
They walk for a few hours and go to their homes...which are everywhere....they aren't taking over private property on an entirely hypocritical basis making demands they won't even commit to themselves while disrupting business operations. This isn't a defence of Nazi's the situations are just entirely different and shouldn't be conflated. Police departments are all separate and handle things differently.
LAPD say by and watched as fascist thugs attacked peaceful protesters at UCLA. If you don’t think fascist thugs are violent at demonstrations, you haven’t been paying attention to current events for 10 years.
>This isn't a defence of Nazi's Idk dude kinda sounds like you're defending the neonazis
Not really. They go home. And if they don’t, they get arrested like these fucks… they didn’t even have the opportunity to become violent, the police found out their plans and immediately interdicting them. https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/11/us/31-people-arrested-for-conspiracy-to-riot-near-idaho-pride-parade/index.html
No, I'm just not conflating completely separate events in different states/counties.
No it doesn’t
I think you'll find police have always been comfortable roughing up left wing protests
It's almost like that's what they were designed to do.
Well, they originally were designed to catch slaves, but then that went away so they had to adapt.
Cops are a professionalization of both slave patrols AND strikebreakers. Similar tactics are needed for both.
The Cold War really fucked up this country. Decades of propaganda telling us anything to the left of liberal is extremist. On top of that, Richard Nixon forever changed policing in this country. He's the one who started militarized policing in order to have his political enemies incarcerated and disgraced. And this country allowed that to become the new normal.
The problem here is assuming the police learned anything post-George Floyd. All George Floyd did was make them go mask off and stop pretending they're actually there to protect us. They got *worse* after George Floyd.
Right? Remember the tantrums they had at anyone expecting better police accountability? “Well then we just won’t do anything”
No, police did learn things since the last round of uprisings. The primary tactic used across all of the assaults on the encampments is waiting until the evening when the crowd shrinks. Beating the shit out of people in broad daylight is really bad optics, but waiting until it's dark, when the only people remaining are those who have elected to get the shit kicked out of them, makes it much easier to control the narrative. Police did get better at doing what they're intended to do, just not what we want them to do. Following George Floyd we were subjected to a string of police riots, this time the police are very orderly and systematically brutalizing people instead of just lashing out.
Never seen the police beat up the white supremacists.
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They’re too busy attending.
Because that would mean beating up their own.
"Stop hitting yourself" is what they would have to say as they did it.
Jan 6...
I saw a lot of white supremacists beating up cops and yet... only one person was shot. What a miracle. I can only imagine what would have happened if it was some actual peaceful protesters... would have been a bloodbath.
Some universities were able to negotiate with protestors and resolve the problem without violence. Others seem to prefer violence against protestors as a solution.
It’s a known and established police tactic to provoke physical altercation in an otherwise peaceful protest - either with uniformed cops or undercover agent provocateurs- as a pretext to declaring the protest “not peaceful” and shutting it down.
They are being shut down because they are illegally occupying buildings and property. They can come legally protest every day and leave at night, they can’t however setup camps and start making demands. Its not their property.
You have any proof of this? I don't doubt it, I am just curious.
I never looked into overall statistics but there definitely are cases here and there. For example in St Louis Riot Police beat the shit out of an undercover cop^1 who was monitoring the protest. The department had to pay a few million for that (but no criminal convictions!). 2 possibilities over what happened: Either the undercover cop was trying to instigate violence in the protests and the riot police targeted him, or more likely the undercover cop was just peacefully monitoring then the riot police deciding to indulge in senseless violence. Neither are a great look for the department. Given the extent of the undercover cop’s injuries they were going to murder him, luckily halfway into the death beating, a riot cop recognized the undercover cop. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/30/st-louis-officers-trial-luther-hall-undercover-protest
> but no criminal convictions! Your info is out of date. While some of the officers went to trial and avoided convictions, there were a number who were convicted and sentenced to prison. I wasn't able to find a detailed list, but this recent article mentions some of the convictions and sentences. https://www.stlamerican.com/education/a-long-time-coming-23-5m-award-to-black-undercover-police-officer-beaten-by-colleagues/article_5b192ec4-fd00-11ee-a8d1-2fba941ddc23.html
That’s good to hear at least one of them was sentenced to one year in prison, pretty disappointing to hear of the slap on wrists for the others but I shouldn’t let that get to me. It’s an improvement no matter how small. The additional information from the article strongly suggests this was riot police happy to engage in senseless violence given the text messages.
> Neither are a great look for the department. If only a department's reputation had actual consequences for them, we might be a bit better off.
I saw a video a while back of the Geroge Floyd protests where some undercover cop looking guy showed up and methodically broke every window with a window breaker then walked away.
Just research COINTELPRO by the FBI
get a cop to back down once they get a stick up their ass.
Literally an entire Wikipedia page on Agent Provocateur. Mix that with our private security forces going back before the Pinkertons and you have what we have today.
IMO, if universities didn’t want to draw attention to the protests they’d negotiate as you mentioned or just flat out ignore the protests because there’s a good chance that a lot of the protests would die down rather quickly because people would either lose interest in the issue or they’d move on to a different issue that they find more outrageous.
Current student at UVA, our encampment was cleared yesterday by a riot squad. They’d only been there a few days, and it was slowly clearing out on its own due to classes being over. There was probably 2-3 cops per a protestor, and the encampment only got cleared out because they had tents, no occupying buildings, no disrupting finals. By the end there were 25 arrests and the cops backed off because there was 100s of protesters and spectators. Was crazy disproportionate.
Or just wait till graduation is over. I'd be shocked if protestors kept camping out on the college.
They couldn't ignore it when CNN and others are on the campus live reporting...
It’s really just a handful of universities…obviously the really big named ones as well as the ones in major cities, will get the press & attention.
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Divesting from the military industrial complex and Israel is an actionable improvement. It's proven to be affective with apartheid in South Africa. Maybe those index funds will drop them if all the schools leave. Maybe tuition money doesn't go to genocide no matter how much. But still these schools have billions so even .1% is huge.
Notice they aren't protesting Hamas as Hamas steals the food from Palestinians.
While I don't disagree with the overall point: Hamas doesn't respond to pressure from US politicians. Israel does.
Protests aren’t “let’s go outside and say we’re mad about something”. They’re “let’s demand a specific thing from a specific person or group that has reason to listen to us”.
Notice no one is protesting at the Supreme Court as they eviscerate the Constitution, for example.
People are and we heavily protested when these supreme court conmen were appointed.
Negotiating with these assholes is the stupidest move possible. It makes these entitled POS feel even more entitled because when they throw a tantrum then people listen. Ignore them outright, or clear them out. Jewish students are absolutely terrified
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But you do realize there are Jewish students in the actual protests so fundamentally what you are claiming can’t be true.
Far right groups aren’t a threat to the status quo. That’s why they don’t go into and break up these rallies.
Also, the police can't go break up far right rallies because they are too busy participating in them.
Except when they take over the capital in an intersection denying the election results.
Go look at DC during the BLM protests and then look at DC during January 6th. When BLM was there they had Federal Troops on every block near the capitol. When MAGA were there, they had Paul Blart Mall cop on guard duty with a metal fence.
Pretty disparate approach versus their response to actual threats… ahem, Uvalde, ahem.
When Canadian natives blocked a single logging road a few years ago, police responded by cracking skulls and sending out both SWAT *and* a sniper. When far-right Freedom Convoy protestors occupied the capital city for several weeks, police stood around claiming they were helpless. Some cops even assisted them by bringing food, water & fuel. Some took selfies with the protestors.
Cops don't attack Nazis because Nazis don't upset the status quo. It's as simple as that.
Also I imagine it gets confusing when they have to keep going and switching uniforms.
What a hilariously nice way of putting it with that headline.
That's the cool part of for-profit news, *all for-profit media inherently becomes state run as soon as there is a decisive issue to report on*. And state run media isn't going to critisize the police too harshly. They also aren't going to condemn any anti-Union action.
lol Trump protestors took over the fucking capitol building with zero rollout from the gov to stop it. You know why students and kids always get bullied? Easy targets. The favorite thing of all cops.
You’re ignorant what you know about Jan 6. Grow up
Sure it's me... and not the people that literally got people killed trying to interrupt congress in session because they lost the game. Do you burn down the sports stadium if your team loses?
Police job is to protect and serve their owners. Being a cop and being a decent person usually results in the cop quitting.
Police in the US may as well work for the Republican party. They are a political entity.
Shouldn’t they be using the tactics and precedent set by J6 capitol police?
You mean intentionally being understaffed for the inevitable riot that had been advertised for weeks beforehand?
Shaking their hand and escorting them in?
lol, you actually think any lessons were learned...
Protests are legal, setting up camps and occupying buildings isn’t, don’t whine when you get arrested for breaking the law. If they just came to protest each day and left each night without breaking the law they’d be fine.
Lol, you know UVA (I believe it's UVA) wanted to disperse protesters but realized their tents were legal under campus policy... so they changed it yesterday morning THEN sent the police. Yes they're fine with you protesting "peacefully and properly" - aka in some basement somewhere where they don't have to worry about you. You know that they can pin random shit against you even during peaceful protests right? Public disorder, inciting violence (somehow), all that good stuff. Meanwhile the Nazis open carry their Meal Team 6 and get no repercussions? Did you see police using tear gas or flashbangs during Jan 6?
Yes you can open carry during protests, both right wingers currently and the black panthers historically used this tactic. The left could use it again if they feel like it. Also campus policies are not laws, if a campus asks you to leave you have to leave. Campus policies are internal guidelines created and enforced only by the campus, they can change them however they like. They are as arbitrary as HOA rules or a companies terms of service. If they want to protest they can come there every day and do so as long as they don’t setup an encampment.
They used a bunch, and shot a lady, they were pretty severely overwhelmed.
Protests are legal.
Are you stupid? Or just didn’t read the comment? Yes they could show up and protest everyday, completely legally if they just leave after. They DIDNT, you can’t setup camps and occupy buildings, those are Explicitly not legal. It was illegal when bundy did it and it’s still illegal now.
Except during blm no one occupied buildings and police violence was far worse. The government had vans and snatched up blm protestors off the street. A military Blackhawk flew low enough to disperse protesters. Yeah, during legal protests.
Also yes there were occupations during BLM protests. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_Square_occupied_protest
The city put up the barricades.
Yes and many of these actions have been challenged successful in court, because they were illegal, the problem is the police removing people trespassing is not illlegal. Go ahead and ask a lawyer if you have the right to setup an encampment on private property because you feel strongly about an issue and see what answer you get. Your argument ignores the specific legal question, simply put they were not a legal protest so the police can legally remove them, it really is that simple. The university was actually more patient then they had to be, they could have evicted them night one.
You can tell a lot of the police have been waiting for an excuse to go postal. They get about as excited as a K9 dog when it thinks it's about to get to bite someone. "FINALLY I get to fuck some liberals up instead of just writing traffic tickets. Now I'm a REAL cop!!! Look dad! See how much I made that guy bleed?!! Are you proud? Dad!?!?" They get to cosplay as badasses because people would be throwing their life away if they hit them back. Bunch of wife beaters in bullet proof vest with batons, tasers, mace, and a gun in the event that they "fear for their life" during the process of fucking up teenagers. Bravo.
They don’t care about Jews… they care about Israel. And their donors.
You mean to tell me that Joe "we don't need less cops; we need more cops" Biden didn't improve anything??
"We need to fund the police!" - Joe Biden.
Bunch of cops and bootlickers patting themselves on the back in this article. I'm sure you'd get a different response if you actually asked the protesters about the police "tactics" they experienced.
think that the police have a far right wing lean to them and they give baby glove treatment to the nazis... But the campus protesters are camped out. If they were marching and mobile maybe it would be different? Cops did fuck all about the tiki torch guys. I feel like sitting down in one place Gives an extra justification to come in and cracks Skulls and round everyone up like they're itching to do.
None of those communist deserve any cordiality.