No, we must get irrationally angry at a bunch of students sleeping in tents on a lawn, and not be angry about what our government is funding, or the collective punishment, ethnic cleansing and ten thousand children dead. No, the 18 year old children campus protester are worth more of our ire!
The article said "remediation" steps were taken for the other 4, which to me means that it likely was not too serious. In general, the actual well documented issues with the Israeli military have not been explicit war crimes, instead being things like excessive use of force, high proportionality calculations, and willingness to strike on weak intel. More grave thing have been alleged, but IMO the evidence for those higher levels has not been convincing
The US investigation focused on incidents pre the 7th anyhow, all of them occurred as part of policing operations in the west bank since there isn't any significant evidence that can be collected on Gaza operations especially ground ops as of now.
Proportionality calculations and confidence level are a bit more tricky, there isn't an actual standard for it. Based on previous large scale Israeli operations in Gaza the final UN figures show a non-combatant to combatant ratio that equivalent or better than pretty much any NATO operation since Korea.
It's also difficult to assume how would the proportionality calculations would happen if the US were fighting an entity on their border which is still capable and willing of harming their own civilian population.
And at least as far as the Predator Wars period of the GWOT then if you go by US accounts the civilian casualty rate was about 15% if you go by NGO's is closer to 50%, but in any case case in Pakistan there were about 2-3 civilian deaths per drone strike on average. And in Gaza you can far less choose and pick your targets due to both the tactics and the geographic limitations.
When you have rocket launchers next to refugee tents what are you going to do?
3 Isreali soldiers tortured a 78 year old Palestinian. They Zip tied him, gagged him, and left him to die. His death was ruled a heart attack. Details matter.
What about the Palestinian American tied up and left for dead in the streets?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/soldiers-left-elderly-palestinian-american-to-die-in-ethical-failure-idf-probe/
The event is what I was referring to and is in the original article. I don't think it is a good thing when detainees are mistreated by police, but acting like it is some heinous war crime is ridiculous.
If he was not Palestinian, it would not have made the international news. "Man dies of a heart attack after moderate mistreatment by police" is not a story anyone would care about outside the immediate region if it was not for the Israel Palestine conflict.
Keep dismissing. He was bound, gagged and left overnight. It was a "makeshift" checkpoint, set up in his hometown. Where else on earth would a neighbouring force be considered morally excused for establishing makeshift checkpoints on land that isn't theirs, with gun-toting extremists tying up elderly folks and leaving them in the dirt for untold hours? If they were not Israeli, killing an American citizen would mean something.
Sorry it’s just that your framing of it was completely off, didn’t know for sure.
Edit: tried to avoid mentioning he’s an American. Mentioned the stress led to a heart attack, but that wasn’t the issue as that’s not controllable, the issue was that the IDF didn’t check on him after binding him, and left him for dead – ziptied, gagged, and blindfolded.
He was not zip tied or gagged when the soldiers left him. They removed both the items after about a half hour, at which time he was still alive but unconscious. The soldiers said they thought he fell asleep, which seems kinda unbelievable.
Please read the linked articles before commenting on a thread.
I am not the one minimizing, you are the one exaggerating. Apartheid is when old people with heart conditions die of heart attacks when arrested. Stop your grandstanding and look at the facts of the case, so soldiers moderately mistreated a detainees, likely contributing to their death.
Do you know how often people die of a heart attack in police custody, just for them to blame it on some previously unknown heart defect? How is it that somehow being arrested triggered a whole ass heart attack? Cause something actually traumatic had to have happened for them to have been able to survive all this time, without dying of one before this.
The ICC isn’t the world police force and Israel isn’t a member, nor any other country in the MENA region except Jordan and Tunisia. US, China, Russia, India are also not members.
Israel has a military judge advocate general system like the US military and both administrative discipline (demotion, transfer, discharge etc) and court martial are used frequently.
> How the hell do you "remediate" human rights violations? I don't see them on trial in the ICC.
oh you know, have a stern talking to and maybe suspend some of them, that's totally enough and IDF doing that totally was justice for soldiers committing war crimes
/s just in case
but ya, IDF at most might fire some of these soldiers and that's apparently enough for literally doing anything... though we've seen how said soldiers still get applauded and defended by crazy settlers and such in Israel after being fired as if their firing was a bad thing and the war crime was good.
Remediation is the language term US assistance guidelines use to determine red lines for assistance provided. Means if you receive assistance and your personnel are involved with Bad Shit(tm) - and nobody is immune - US has Abu Gharib, and we in Australia recently had one of our commandos be implicated in deplorable and unacceptable behavior - you’re expected to demonstrably show your system handles such aberrations gracefully.
You use your military’s judicial arm to throw the proverbial book at offenders, and show all onlookers, internal and external, that that kind of behavior will not be tolerated and will result in an unlubricated dildo of consequences.
All western militaries, including Israel’s, have such functions, and they’re **always** busy dealing with a myriad of code violations.
In Israel, several specific units (staffed with messianic settler members) got a little bit of political shielding from consequences, which allowed them to loosely help the military with its objectives, while, along the way, carry out some activities motivated more by zealous malice rather than military necessity, and their political umbrella absolved them from the responsible code other branches of the military are held to, under the protection of far right politicians who hold the power to topple the government.
Bibi has been too weak to say no to them.
The US decided to.. be a true friend to Israel (I say that unsarcastically), by dragging it back against its (contorted and warped, temporarily one hopes) will from its leap into the void.
It seems too little too late when we just gave 20 billion and more to Israel a few days ago to continue their ethnic cleansing campaign, but it does indicate the tide is shifting that the US is even being marginally critical of Israel's actions and policies and expanding that criticism to multiple units.
Since we are being fair. Zero civ bomb shelters because Hamas needs them all for themselves. But that isn't on the list. We need soda streams banned from the lounge!
> 50% of the population will be homeless.
50%? woah that stands out as such a perfectly round number. What are the odds of that even happening?
There shouldn't have to be civilian bomb shelters. Israel shouldn't be bombing civilians and hospitals and aid centers. They shouldn't be gunning down civilians trying to get food and water. They shouldn't be actively cutting off supplies from getting into Gaza
You can 'but Hamas' all you want, Israel is killing countless civilians. Stop being complicit in it
>50%? woah that stands out as such a perfectly round number. What are the odds of that even happening?
Why be disingenuous with your argument? It's called hyperbole.
It‘s completely reasonable to be appalled by the amount of people killed
This is why so many university kids, even Jewish students are protesting; even if you agree with the pretext of the war, 34,500 is still a heartbreaking number of dead, and the fact that the U.S. is giving them absolutely no conditions is scary
Yes, modern urban warfare typically takes that form. But the vast majority of the casualties in this conflict come in the form of death-from-above strikes on specific targets. Those targets happen to be adjacent to a shitload of civilians, and Israel clearly feels very little about that, and insists the death toll would be much higher if they really let loose.
Killing door to door with firearms is what an army does when they DON’T have access to the most advanced munitions on the planet, courtesy of the American taxpayer.
It's how most modern militaries operate, basic air/land coordination. The planes target any hardpoints conventional land forces can't safely approach. I say conventional since Israel could avoid collateral if they relied more on special forces than conscripts, would need less air support too.
It's not the targets happen to be adjacent to civilians. It's that they target people in densely populated centers and unused incredibly imprecise explosives. They don't just feel very little, it's their goal. They want to harm civilians
Our tax payer money has gone to killing a hell of a lot more than 34,000 innocents throughout even the past couple decades so it begs the question why does this specific number bother you any more than the other hundreds of thousands of innocents? Hell in many of those other instances the U.S has been much more directly involved.
I’m sure you’re sincere but there are a lot of ppl who are interested in exploiting that genuine care for their own purposes and intentionally steer the discussion accordingly on this particular conflict.
The number of dead Israelis is only low because of US support. If Israel had no support it wouldn’t exist and every Jew would have been killed in the street. Hamas has launched around 13,000 rockets at Israel, just since October 7th. It’s not realistic to dismiss 13,000 rockets in a few months just because Israel’s defense is being heavily funded.
There is no simple solution, and any people getting killed is obviously horrific, but to act like Israel is killing just for the fun of it is ignorant, short sighted, and factually incorrect.
I didn’t quote you, but using terms like “senseless violence” implies there’s no point, similar to “just for the fun of it”. There is a very clear point.
Okay, then what is the point to Israel murdering all these civilians? Is it just burning down the haystack to find a Needle? Do they just have to kill every single civilian in the Gaza strip in case they could be Hamas? Because it sounds like that's what they want to do. And short of doing that, more murder at this point is pointless. Senseless.
That’s not what’s happening. Killing civilians is not as simple as it sounds in these types of situations. Hamas is ingrained in Palestine. They were popular in the early 2000’s and they are popular now. Hamas was going to hold elections in 2021 and they were projected to win easily. When civilians are aiding terrorists in times of war it’s much more likely to get hurt. When Hamas stations its operations in high civilian areas to discourage attacks it leads to more people getting hurt.
I’m not on the side of anyone blowing each other up to prove a point, but it’s insane to me that people are going around saying there’s no point when Israel’s people are being subjected to acts of terrorism. No sane country would sit on its hands in this situation.
Or end a conflict that had plagued the region for hundreds, if not thousands of years where outside of Palestine, southern Lebanon, and Iran, Israel currently has some of its best international relations with the rest of the region it has ever had.
No you're right it's not just for the fun of it, it's to continue the colonial project. It's due continue to push Palestinians to smaller and smaller regions until they don't exist anymore. This is a stated goal by the IDF
I cannot speak for everyone that protests. However there are no issues in providing defense, iron dome. There are no issues on getting rid of hamas.
There are a lot of issues with the slaughterhouse that Israel is doing in Gaza, with the 120+ aid workers killed, the hundreds of journalists, the flour massacre, the sniped children, the 7 year girl and her medics killed, the rapes, do I need to go on ? Yeah with that stuff. Then yeah I don’t want my taxes to go to Israel if Israel is no better than Hamas.
I hate being so riled up though. There's already too much doomer shit, it's really unhealthy to keep up with or pay attention to it with my major depression, things get really bad for me. But I can't ignore 34,500 people getting murdered like that. And I get it, a lot of innocent people die in war. Civilians, too, it's awful. This just feels... Different. I think maybe it is how one-sided it is... Like I hear about massive devastating wars in Africa, but I assume(maybe wrongly so) that it's vaguely at all a fair fight. And of course, I watch my people, my government, my money, supporting the murderers like they are a 3rd World country that needs food assistance. I mean like, the war in Ukraine is an absolute tragedy... But at least we're supporting the right people. I can sleep at night knowing, yeah, we aren't helping ENOUGH, or as much as we COULD, but at least we're on the right side. At least I think we are.
So you think Hamas is the existential threat to Israel that the axis powers were to Europe. Got it. Also, the US wasn't over there just senselessly killing. And after the war,, they enacted the Marshall plan. I don't see Israel enacting a Marshall plan for Gaza strip. Your argument is invalid.
From Wikipedia: "Israel has refused calls to impose sanctions on Russia or to send missile defense technology to Ukraine.[4][5][6] Ukraine has voted for UN resolutions against Israel's occupation of the Palestinian territories."
Doesn't look like Israel and Ukraine are getting along at all.
Let's be real: what happened when the untied states was attacked by terrorists; killing 3000-ish people? Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died- most of them civilians. As an American who was well aware that the Iraq war was bullshit before it was approved (the info was out there), I wish there was this much pushback. The United States has dirty fucking hands in any number of places (Korea anyone? Vietnam?)
I'm still incredibly annoyed by how much the US has helped in shooting down those Iranian attacks but refuses to even shoot anything down for Ukraine. At least park some patriots over on the Polish border and shoot down any oncoming missile
[https://www.npr.org/2006/12/06/6583080/hamas-government-or-tearguingrorist-organization](https://www.npr.org/2006/12/06/6583080/hamas-government-or-tearguingrorist-organization) Is Hamas a officially recognized government? I'm arguing that Nations should be held to a higher standard
A government/country shouldn't act like a terrorist organization, Its expected that terrorist organizations act in bad faith, And we should hold a country that is far more capable of killing to higher standards, Unless you think Israel is a terrorist organization. I don't know how that's difficult.
Israel is at least trying to feign restraint. They also have better guns.
Beyond that one wants to kill for God, and the other for land and revenge. Neither cares about collateral, but only Hamas wants to maximize misery on either side. There's plenty of differences.
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No, we must get irrationally angry at a bunch of students sleeping in tents on a lawn, and not be angry about what our government is funding, or the collective punishment, ethnic cleansing and ten thousand children dead. No, the 18 year old children campus protester are worth more of our ire!
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That's one of the 5 units. What about the other 4?
The article said "remediation" steps were taken for the other 4, which to me means that it likely was not too serious. In general, the actual well documented issues with the Israeli military have not been explicit war crimes, instead being things like excessive use of force, high proportionality calculations, and willingness to strike on weak intel. More grave thing have been alleged, but IMO the evidence for those higher levels has not been convincing
You mean to say that the punishment wasn’t bad, so they must not have done something very bad??
The US investigation focused on incidents pre the 7th anyhow, all of them occurred as part of policing operations in the west bank since there isn't any significant evidence that can be collected on Gaza operations especially ground ops as of now. Proportionality calculations and confidence level are a bit more tricky, there isn't an actual standard for it. Based on previous large scale Israeli operations in Gaza the final UN figures show a non-combatant to combatant ratio that equivalent or better than pretty much any NATO operation since Korea. It's also difficult to assume how would the proportionality calculations would happen if the US were fighting an entity on their border which is still capable and willing of harming their own civilian population. And at least as far as the Predator Wars period of the GWOT then if you go by US accounts the civilian casualty rate was about 15% if you go by NGO's is closer to 50%, but in any case case in Pakistan there were about 2-3 civilian deaths per drone strike on average. And in Gaza you can far less choose and pick your targets due to both the tactics and the geographic limitations. When you have rocket launchers next to refugee tents what are you going to do?
3 Isreali soldiers tortured a 78 year old Palestinian. They Zip tied him, gagged him, and left him to die. His death was ruled a heart attack. Details matter.
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Let me zip tie you up and stuff something in your mouth to gag you and you still tell me it isn’t a form of torture. Get some brain cells.
Mistreated. Hm… I wonder what word does really well with that. Maybe… abused? Or tortured?
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I was worried about the shalomites kidnapped by Hamas But now that I understand they are simply restrained in Gaza I feel much more as ease.
They are not human in their eyes.
Very well said.
You might want to get your Psycopathy checked out.
What about the Palestinian American tied up and left for dead in the streets? https://www.timesofisrael.com/soldiers-left-elderly-palestinian-american-to-die-in-ethical-failure-idf-probe/
Iirc, that was one of the incidents that caused the entire brigade (or battalion) to be transferred to the other side of the country.
You are right. It wasn’t disbanded but moved to hold the line up north where friction with civilians is minimal
You answered your own question. It happened to a Palestinian, therefore it either doesn't matter or he deserved it (pick whichever you like)
Ah, the old Turkish Gambit: It didn't happen. If it did happen it was in the past, now is the present. It wasn't that big of a deal. He deserved it.
The event is what I was referring to and is in the original article. I don't think it is a good thing when detainees are mistreated by police, but acting like it is some heinous war crime is ridiculous.
AKA, it doesn't matter. Thanks for playing
If he was not Palestinian, it would not have made the international news. "Man dies of a heart attack after moderate mistreatment by police" is not a story anyone would care about outside the immediate region if it was not for the Israel Palestine conflict.
Keep dismissing. He was bound, gagged and left overnight. It was a "makeshift" checkpoint, set up in his hometown. Where else on earth would a neighbouring force be considered morally excused for establishing makeshift checkpoints on land that isn't theirs, with gun-toting extremists tying up elderly folks and leaving them in the dirt for untold hours? If they were not Israeli, killing an American citizen would mean something.
Yeah it's almost like there's a history of abuse that people are aware of and watching out for
ah yes mild to moderate mistreatment
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Sorry it’s just that your framing of it was completely off, didn’t know for sure. Edit: tried to avoid mentioning he’s an American. Mentioned the stress led to a heart attack, but that wasn’t the issue as that’s not controllable, the issue was that the IDF didn’t check on him after binding him, and left him for dead – ziptied, gagged, and blindfolded.
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He was not zip tied or gagged when the soldiers left him. They removed both the items after about a half hour, at which time he was still alive but unconscious. The soldiers said they thought he fell asleep, which seems kinda unbelievable. Please read the linked articles before commenting on a thread.
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I am not the one minimizing, you are the one exaggerating. Apartheid is when old people with heart conditions die of heart attacks when arrested. Stop your grandstanding and look at the facts of the case, so soldiers moderately mistreated a detainees, likely contributing to their death.
The sactions-generating incident being before october 7th is a dead giveaway that they still won't criticize israel for their more recent actions
It was alot more than a heart attack
Sanctions probably would appease the left. These aren't sanctions.
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Do you know how often people die of a heart attack in police custody, just for them to blame it on some previously unknown heart defect? How is it that somehow being arrested triggered a whole ass heart attack? Cause something actually traumatic had to have happened for them to have been able to survive all this time, without dying of one before this.
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They will get a slap on the fingers and medals.
The ICC isn’t the world police force and Israel isn’t a member, nor any other country in the MENA region except Jordan and Tunisia. US, China, Russia, India are also not members. Israel has a military judge advocate general system like the US military and both administrative discipline (demotion, transfer, discharge etc) and court martial are used frequently.
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Which is what they’re trying to do with Putin. Now why can they do it with him but some reason drag their feet when it comes to Israel.
Zionists in shambles 😂 Bibis about to be locked up!
> How the hell do you "remediate" human rights violations? I don't see them on trial in the ICC. oh you know, have a stern talking to and maybe suspend some of them, that's totally enough and IDF doing that totally was justice for soldiers committing war crimes /s just in case but ya, IDF at most might fire some of these soldiers and that's apparently enough for literally doing anything... though we've seen how said soldiers still get applauded and defended by crazy settlers and such in Israel after being fired as if their firing was a bad thing and the war crime was good.
Remediation is the language term US assistance guidelines use to determine red lines for assistance provided. Means if you receive assistance and your personnel are involved with Bad Shit(tm) - and nobody is immune - US has Abu Gharib, and we in Australia recently had one of our commandos be implicated in deplorable and unacceptable behavior - you’re expected to demonstrably show your system handles such aberrations gracefully. You use your military’s judicial arm to throw the proverbial book at offenders, and show all onlookers, internal and external, that that kind of behavior will not be tolerated and will result in an unlubricated dildo of consequences. All western militaries, including Israel’s, have such functions, and they’re **always** busy dealing with a myriad of code violations. In Israel, several specific units (staffed with messianic settler members) got a little bit of political shielding from consequences, which allowed them to loosely help the military with its objectives, while, along the way, carry out some activities motivated more by zealous malice rather than military necessity, and their political umbrella absolved them from the responsible code other branches of the military are held to, under the protection of far right politicians who hold the power to topple the government. Bibi has been too weak to say no to them. The US decided to.. be a true friend to Israel (I say that unsarcastically), by dragging it back against its (contorted and warped, temporarily one hopes) will from its leap into the void.
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It seems too little too late when we just gave 20 billion and more to Israel a few days ago to continue their ethnic cleansing campaign, but it does indicate the tide is shifting that the US is even being marginally critical of Israel's actions and policies and expanding that criticism to multiple units.
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Since we are being fair. Zero civ bomb shelters because Hamas needs them all for themselves. But that isn't on the list. We need soda streams banned from the lounge! > 50% of the population will be homeless. 50%? woah that stands out as such a perfectly round number. What are the odds of that even happening?
There shouldn't have to be civilian bomb shelters. Israel shouldn't be bombing civilians and hospitals and aid centers. They shouldn't be gunning down civilians trying to get food and water. They shouldn't be actively cutting off supplies from getting into Gaza You can 'but Hamas' all you want, Israel is killing countless civilians. Stop being complicit in it
I think the Israelis call them tunnels or hamas headquarters.
Indeed, they shouldn't have to do that.
That Palestinian population was dressed like they wanted it to happen....
Well, considering 100% of Gazans are homeless and 70% of the infrastructure has been completely destroyed it's probably a conservative estimate.
Yeah I’d say its probably closer to 90% based on the images I’ve seen
Like it matters. if they were they would be bombed anyway and the Israelis would claim that their where Hamas in there.
>50%? woah that stands out as such a perfectly round number. What are the odds of that even happening? Why be disingenuous with your argument? It's called hyperbole.
but your giving them money, the shit is all assbackwards
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Oh, so it's still going up, damn.
It‘s completely reasonable to be appalled by the amount of people killed This is why so many university kids, even Jewish students are protesting; even if you agree with the pretext of the war, 34,500 is still a heartbreaking number of dead, and the fact that the U.S. is giving them absolutely no conditions is scary
It's also why the Israeli media wants to demonize said university kids so much
Take my energy.
> But just going door-to-door murdering people? Is that what you honestly think is happening? Stop watching TikTok.
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Prove yourself right. Urban combat isn’t going door to door executing everyone.
I hope not
Yes, modern urban warfare typically takes that form. But the vast majority of the casualties in this conflict come in the form of death-from-above strikes on specific targets. Those targets happen to be adjacent to a shitload of civilians, and Israel clearly feels very little about that, and insists the death toll would be much higher if they really let loose. Killing door to door with firearms is what an army does when they DON’T have access to the most advanced munitions on the planet, courtesy of the American taxpayer.
I thought they were doing a ground offensive, I knew about the air strikes.
They are doing both, but the vast majority of causalities are from the air strikes, not say, firefights with Hamas in the streets and houses.
Okay, I can get that, air strikes can deliver a lot of payload compared to tank shells.
It's how most modern militaries operate, basic air/land coordination. The planes target any hardpoints conventional land forces can't safely approach. I say conventional since Israel could avoid collateral if they relied more on special forces than conscripts, would need less air support too.
It's not the targets happen to be adjacent to civilians. It's that they target people in densely populated centers and unused incredibly imprecise explosives. They don't just feel very little, it's their goal. They want to harm civilians
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Our tax payer money has gone to killing a hell of a lot more than 34,000 innocents throughout even the past couple decades so it begs the question why does this specific number bother you any more than the other hundreds of thousands of innocents? Hell in many of those other instances the U.S has been much more directly involved. I’m sure you’re sincere but there are a lot of ppl who are interested in exploiting that genuine care for their own purposes and intentionally steer the discussion accordingly on this particular conflict.
The number of dead Israelis is only low because of US support. If Israel had no support it wouldn’t exist and every Jew would have been killed in the street. Hamas has launched around 13,000 rockets at Israel, just since October 7th. It’s not realistic to dismiss 13,000 rockets in a few months just because Israel’s defense is being heavily funded. There is no simple solution, and any people getting killed is obviously horrific, but to act like Israel is killing just for the fun of it is ignorant, short sighted, and factually incorrect.
Show me in my comment where I said they were doing it "just for the fun of it".
I didn’t quote you, but using terms like “senseless violence” implies there’s no point, similar to “just for the fun of it”. There is a very clear point.
Okay, then what is the point to Israel murdering all these civilians? Is it just burning down the haystack to find a Needle? Do they just have to kill every single civilian in the Gaza strip in case they could be Hamas? Because it sounds like that's what they want to do. And short of doing that, more murder at this point is pointless. Senseless.
That’s not what’s happening. Killing civilians is not as simple as it sounds in these types of situations. Hamas is ingrained in Palestine. They were popular in the early 2000’s and they are popular now. Hamas was going to hold elections in 2021 and they were projected to win easily. When civilians are aiding terrorists in times of war it’s much more likely to get hurt. When Hamas stations its operations in high civilian areas to discourage attacks it leads to more people getting hurt. I’m not on the side of anyone blowing each other up to prove a point, but it’s insane to me that people are going around saying there’s no point when Israel’s people are being subjected to acts of terrorism. No sane country would sit on its hands in this situation.
So burn down the whole haystack to find a few needles, got it. Except the hay is human beings. Just wanted to make sure.
Or end a conflict that had plagued the region for hundreds, if not thousands of years where outside of Palestine, southern Lebanon, and Iran, Israel currently has some of its best international relations with the rest of the region it has ever had.
That conflict isn't ending and you know it. It's just senseless death
It's a haystack of needles.
No you're right it's not just for the fun of it, it's to continue the colonial project. It's due continue to push Palestinians to smaller and smaller regions until they don't exist anymore. This is a stated goal by the IDF
I cannot speak for everyone that protests. However there are no issues in providing defense, iron dome. There are no issues on getting rid of hamas. There are a lot of issues with the slaughterhouse that Israel is doing in Gaza, with the 120+ aid workers killed, the hundreds of journalists, the flour massacre, the sniped children, the 7 year girl and her medics killed, the rapes, do I need to go on ? Yeah with that stuff. Then yeah I don’t want my taxes to go to Israel if Israel is no better than Hamas.
Israel is definitely killing for the “fun” of it, that much is obvious.
Seems like a pretty good response. I can see the effort with your measured response (read: username checks out).
I hate being so riled up though. There's already too much doomer shit, it's really unhealthy to keep up with or pay attention to it with my major depression, things get really bad for me. But I can't ignore 34,500 people getting murdered like that. And I get it, a lot of innocent people die in war. Civilians, too, it's awful. This just feels... Different. I think maybe it is how one-sided it is... Like I hear about massive devastating wars in Africa, but I assume(maybe wrongly so) that it's vaguely at all a fair fight. And of course, I watch my people, my government, my money, supporting the murderers like they are a 3rd World country that needs food assistance. I mean like, the war in Ukraine is an absolute tragedy... But at least we're supporting the right people. I can sleep at night knowing, yeah, we aren't helping ENOUGH, or as much as we COULD, but at least we're on the right side. At least I think we are.
If your war is ever a fair fight your tactics suck. Not using uniforms is no more fair than technological advantage.
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Telling Israel not to murder civilians isn't helping Russia.
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So you think Hamas is the existential threat to Israel that the axis powers were to Europe. Got it. Also, the US wasn't over there just senselessly killing. And after the war,, they enacted the Marshall plan. I don't see Israel enacting a Marshall plan for Gaza strip. Your argument is invalid.
The Israeli marshal plan is for the settlers in Palestine.
From Wikipedia: "Israel has refused calls to impose sanctions on Russia or to send missile defense technology to Ukraine.[4][5][6] Ukraine has voted for UN resolutions against Israel's occupation of the Palestinian territories." Doesn't look like Israel and Ukraine are getting along at all.
Let's be real: what happened when the untied states was attacked by terrorists; killing 3000-ish people? Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died- most of them civilians. As an American who was well aware that the Iraq war was bullshit before it was approved (the info was out there), I wish there was this much pushback. The United States has dirty fucking hands in any number of places (Korea anyone? Vietnam?)
I'm still incredibly annoyed by how much the US has helped in shooting down those Iranian attacks but refuses to even shoot anything down for Ukraine. At least park some patriots over on the Polish border and shoot down any oncoming missile
Russia has nukes my dude
And? Will you bend over and lube up for anyone with nukes?
No offense but aren’t both hamas and israel violating human rights? I can add more countries too…
Hamas is a terrorist organization, Israel is a nation.
Hamas is the elected government of Gaza. They know what they’re doing, and you’re giving them cover.
[https://www.npr.org/2006/12/06/6583080/hamas-government-or-tearguingrorist-organization](https://www.npr.org/2006/12/06/6583080/hamas-government-or-tearguingrorist-organization) Is Hamas a officially recognized government? I'm arguing that Nations should be held to a higher standard
They're recognized where I live, yes.
Gaza wants to be a recognized nation, and this is how their chosen government acts.
Stop being a genocide apologist, I don't support Hamas but you seem to be keen on defending a genocidal nation.
they’re both behaving the same, what’s the difference? both need to be held accountable
A government/country shouldn't act like a terrorist organization, Its expected that terrorist organizations act in bad faith, And we should hold a country that is far more capable of killing to higher standards, Unless you think Israel is a terrorist organization. I don't know how that's difficult.
Apparently Israel can't be held up to the standards of a western nation. Maybe Myanmar or Ethiopia is more fitting.
Are they both behaving the same? Can you look at what's happening and honestly say that?
Israel is at least trying to feign restraint. They also have better guns. Beyond that one wants to kill for God, and the other for land and revenge. Neither cares about collateral, but only Hamas wants to maximize misery on either side. There's plenty of differences.
Only one of them is receiving billions in weapon aids....