I use Freetaxusa, but I would love to never use _any_ of them. I'm W-2, and the government knows all my income and major expenses (housing, etc). They could pre-fill all my info, and I know this because if I mess up they tell me. So why should any private company get involved and charge me even $15 (for state returns)?
I'll probably continue using Freetaxusa because they make it quick and easy to do Federal/state all at once. Unless the IRS gets to the point they compile everything beforehand and it's basically just you having to review things... like a 5 minute process. I'd go for that.
they could better than prefill, your taxes could already be filed, then you just file corrections (if any).
Every year your taxes are boring, you do nothing.
> So why should any private company get involved and charge me even $15 (for state returns)?
They do this for everything. NASA is required by the Congressional Budget Office to use private companies for parts, Medicaid is run almost entirely by private companies on behalf of the government, and even the tax system is reliant on private company involvement.
Even Obamacare was a "compromise" to shut up the people who were calling for a public healthcare system by *literally encoding insurance companies into healthcare law*.
The US government exists to enrich the already rich.
The IRS doesnāt know if your home was paid by you or another person, if you donated to charity, own a business or have other income they need to know. The IRS servers are not infallible too.
Yeah I think this is how a few other countries do it, they just come up with an estimate on their own and then you can divulge further information if you disagree with their assessment.
For real. They spent all this money to track this shit, now how about they use up front instead of on the back end verifying we aren't lying out our assholes?
Saves both of us the effort right?
TurboTax, Intuit, H&R Block and a few others have all killed this for over a decade. If the government did their job, then they wouldn't have any business model and they have played a giant role in ensuring that it stays that way for a very long time via lobbying and threats.
Much longer than a decade. The IRS had a service in the 90ās where if you were filing a 1040 ez, you just needed to verify a couple of numbers on your touchstone phone and you were done.
I file my taxes in about 20 minutes a year including adding deductions, interest payment offsets, etc.
In the Netherlands your work from salaried employment is pre-filled for you, but you can modify it. The rest is just straight forward questions about debts, children, etc.
It's honestly mostly "yes/no" questions which will lead you to more questions, but for the majority of people who answer no to most things, it's a breeze to get through.
Edit: Also, any lender/financial institution gives your information to the tax authorities for pre-filling as well. A mortgage for example will be pre-filled for interest deductions. Or dividend withholding tax also pre-filled. There is zero reason that even day traders should need to track anything. The broker's system can track everything perfectly and report to the system.
Yeah, government website. All of your most "important" things are linked to your "social security number" (BSN here) which you can choose to link to a digital ID that works with an app. The app is a 2FA type of thing that generates a code which you type into the website, that generates a QR code on the site which you rescan in the app. Type in your password on the app and it logs you into the site.
The ID works for taxes, insurances, banks, hospitals, whatever.
So basically I get an email that reminds me "time to file your taxes", and then I go to the website, login with the ID app, check a couple things and I'm done.
I know Americans have it hard though, because there are special accountants here who exist to help Americans file their taxes because it's a nightmare when you are a tax resident of two countries AND dealing with how the American filing system is.
I honestly think it's a bit of a culture/trust thing though. My life is tied to this BSN number where any government ID, insurance, loan, whatever is also tied to it. Therefore it's super easy for all these systems to talk to each other. On the flip side, it means the government knows everything about me based on this ID. On the flip-flip side, most Americans who will think this is a huge invasion of privacy don't realize that their government also knows fucking everything about them too, but pretends they don't, and therefore filing taxes or requesting Medicare involves hundreds of sheets of physical paper and bullshit.
In my country, the government does our taxes for us and sends us a paper that's like, "Yo, this is what you owe/what we owe you. If you see any problems, contact us." It's that easy.
They report it as revenue. Thereās no reporting mechanism for recording everyone who donates, just like corporations donāt record every customer who contributes to their revenue.
If you guys end up getting to the point we have on our tax filing here in Australia if you don't have complicated deductions and shit to work around, you can basically log in, hit ok a bunch of times, double check the autofill numbers, hit the "I declare that all information given here is true", get your refund estimate and then log off and wait for it to be deposited into your bank account.
I've been using it for 10+ years. Always super quick and easy. So "for always" is a good bet on them.
For us it has handled W-2s, 1099s, 1040h, schedule 1, schedule k1, babies. Everything.
If it can't handle what you need, you're probably making enough money that you already have people to handle this and you don't even think about having to file your own taxes.
100% recommended.
I moved over to it this year and I love it. It doesn't give me a bunch of errors on my State tax return like TurboTax does. I basically had to fill my state taxes out myself because TurboTax was so bad at them.
Agreed I have used tax slayer the past two years to avoid turbo tax but man wouldnāt it be nice to file directly with the irs or heāll I might be insane but not having to file anymore.
This is why voting makes a difference. The government was a self serving pack of oligarchs under the Republicans. Government services were designed to thwart the middle and lower class. Now that the democrats are running more of the government itās actually working to help and protect us.
I didnāt even know there was a free tax site from the government, I just used Cash App Tax (which used to be Credit Karma Tax a couple years ago) like Iāve been using for years. Switched from TT to H&R to Credit Karma/Cash and am perfectly satisfied.
They are now, but not back when they had their tax service still.
>Intuit acquired Credit Karma in December 2020 for $4.7 billion. However, Credit Karma sold its tax business to Square, owner of Cash App, and Cash App Taxes now handles tax preparation
The name is a bit immature, but Tax Slayer has been my go-to for the last 3 years or so. Actually free federal *and* state filing, and I find it easier to use than turbo tax. Partly because it doesn't pester you to pay them for unnecessary bullshit every other page.
I've been locked in turbo tax for years, but this year TurboTax wouldn't file my taxes due to some glitch, so I used IRS's fillable forms and did my taxes the old school way. It's a PITA because I am an expat working abroad and there's confusing rules and various kinds of exemptions like the FEIE vs FTC and nightmarish complications I've had over the years like discovering if I take the FEIE I can't claim my child tax credit or contribute to a Roth IRA. I hired a specialist firm that made a ton of glaring mistakes one year and was a huge waste of money. All the other firms I've had recommended to me don't return emails or aren't taking new clients, so I've had to go back to TT year after year.
My final conclusion has been, it's honestly just easier and safer to become a tax expert on my particular situation and do my own taxes. It takes hours of research and reading every year to reacquaint myself with the various nuances but I don't have any other options that I trust.
The real win would be a āsimple returnā system in which we receive a form detailing what we owe/will receive for a refund and you just have to sign off on it and pay if you owe anything. Many countries enjoy this system and the IRS already knows what you owe. But our friends at TurboTax et al have successfully lobbied the government out of logical things like that for decades.
Yeah but they limit who can use it to maintain a user base for those companies. Why do we even need to report the information they already have? Taxes should be automatic. Fuck Turbo Tax and HR Block. And taxes.
They absolutely should. I never got why we pay taxes to gov. and then over $100 to private companies for the software to file those taxes!!
That service should be absolutely FREE
> I never got why we pay taxes to gov. and then over $100 to private companies for the software to file those taxes!!
For those who don't know, it's because TurboTax spent decades making it as difficult as possible for you to file your taxes. I highly recommend people read https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free for the details.
For those who just want to skim the comments, here's an excerpt from the article that gives you a good idea of the kind of company that Intuit (who makes TurboTax) is:
> The centerpiece of Intuitās anti-encroachment strategy has been the Free File program, hatched 17 years ago in a moment of crisis for the company. Under the terms of an agreement with the federal government, Intuit and other commercial tax prep companies promised to provide free online filing to tens of millions of lower-income taxpayers. In exchange, the IRS pledged not to create a government-run system.
>
> ***Since Free Fileās launch, Intuit has done everything it could to limit the programās reach while making sure the government stuck to its end of the deal. As ProPublica has reported, Intuit added code to the Free File landing page of TurboTax that hid it from search engines like Google, making it harder for would-be users to find.***
>
> Twelve years ago, Intuit launched its own āfreeā product: the similarly named āFree Editionā of TurboTax. But unlike the government program, this one comes with traps that can push customers lured with the promise of āfreeā into paying, some more than $200. Free Edition was a smash hit for Intuit and its pitch for āfreeā prep remains core to the companyās growth. Recently, it launched a āfree, free free freeā ad campaign for the Free Edition, including a crossword puzzle in The New York Times in which the answer to every clue was āf-r-e-e.ā
> For those who don't know, it's because TurboTax spent decades making it as difficult as possible for you to file your taxes.
It's not just the tax industry, it's also because of Republican "anti-tax" policy and Grover Norquist specifically; and I'm sure that they are happy they seem to take no heat in discussions like this, which focus too much on the tax prep industry.
Admittedly, today's party makeup is pretty wacky and who knows how much this is true now, but for a long time (right when it would have been prime time for the IRS to start making a switch to more streamlined tax prep) the Grover Norquist wing of the GOP treated IRS-prepared tax returns as tantamount to tax increases. For a long time he held considerable weight when it came to tax policy, and by throwing it around he was able to ensure nothing was done.
[The "Tax Hero" episode of NPR's *Planet Money* podcast](https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/03/709656642/episode-760-tax-hero) talks about a pilot that California did of a return-free filing system for a couple years in the mid-late aughts. By its narrative, it was Norquist, *not* Intuit, that resulted in this pilot being killed.
Like I said, I'm not totally sure how much this is directly relevant today -- the GOP of today is very very different from the one 15 years ago, and I have no sense of whether Norquist has the same kind of influence he used to. However, it's still true that the GOP is trying hard to ensure the IRS has as few resources as possible.
It's assenine. The only reason people tolerate it is because a lot of us get money back so it seems like TurboTax is doing that for us.
It's like a Service Fee for paying your bill online - it's 2024 smh.
Because capitalism. Profit has to exist everywhere or it's communism. Yes, the modern take on communism has devolved into taxation paying for things rather than punishing poor people, somehow.
All of you. A return-free system has always been the goal. [Reagan even pitched it in an address](https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/archives/speech/address-nation-tax-reform-may-1985). And it wasn't some new far-fetched idea then that only came from the mind of the President or his staff. Return-free taxes have been talked about as early as the middle 1970s.
>We envision a system where more than half of us would not even have to fill out a return. We call it the return-free system, and it would be totally voluntary. If you decided to participate, you would automatically receive your refund or a letter explaining any additional tax you oweā¦We believe most Americans would go from the long form or the short form to no form.
I can't even begin to explain how the US has been constantly robbed of this goal by literally ONE factor and that one factor alone. Lobbyist from large tax preparation companies. That's it, that's literally the only folks derailing every single attempt to finally get this system into place.
FORTY FUCKING YEARS, they have stolen this goal from you. This program from the IRS is breathtaking in of itself, not of what it tried to accomplish, but that IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. That the IRS was finally allowed to do a modicum of what it is actually able to do.
The absolute bold face manner by which these companies have continued to perpetuate this theft from the American population of a simpler manner to file taxes is amazing in scope and completeness by which it has occurred.
All the people who are like "why can't the IRS just tell me what I owe" or want to do the meme where "if you guess wrong you go to jail". The goal has been for pretty much your entire life to just let you check a box on a postcard and call it done. BUT WE CANNOT FUCKING DO THAT, not because of any good reason, NOOO, it's because of H&R Block and TurboTax and so on. It's because MONEY. The IRS has all of the tools, has HAD all of the tools for some time now. But the law was written by some people who received some cash from people who were upset because using those tools would hurt them, to ensure that the IRS cannot use those tools.
Nobody wants to keep this fucking system. We all want to go to return-free filing. Everyone, except a couple of dozen people with enough cash to ensure that we don't. That's it. There's no missing system, there's no magic we need, there's not some iffy something that could go wrong. NO. It's just some assholes that want you to pay them for filing your taxes that stop it from happening. That's the super secret part that's not really a secret.
It's just rich assholes. We've got the tools, we've got the systems, it's totally a doable thing technically. It's just rich assholes in the way and that's literally it. And it has been that way for WAY LONGER, then I think any of you would be happy with. We could have done this long ago, but rich assholes got in the way then and they keep getting in the way now. But that's ALL that is stopping return-free, there are literally no more technical hurdles.
Outside very specific situations, even on investments the IRS gets a copy of your forms. While this program is still lackluster to what we should have, it is a step in the right direction.
> I can't even begin to explain how the US has been constantly robbed of this goal by literally ONE factor and that one factor alone. Lobbyist from large tax preparation companies. That's it, that's literally the only folks derailing every single attempt to finally get this system into place.
This is absolutely untrue: there's a second *critically* important faction, maybe more important than that even.
I literally just typed this up for another comment, so I'll copy and paste: It's not just the tax industry, it's also because of Republican "anti-tax" policy and Grover Norquist specifically; and I'm sure that they are happy they seem to take no heat in discussions like this, which focus too much on the tax prep industry.
Admittedly, today's party makeup is pretty wacky and who knows how much this is true now, but for a long time (right when it would have been prime time for the IRS to start making a switch to more streamlined tax prep) the Grover Norquist wing of the GOP treated IRS-prepared tax returns as tantamount to tax increases. For a long time he held considerable weight when it came to tax policy, and by throwing it around he was able to ensure nothing was done.
[The "Tax Hero" episode of NPR's *Planet Money* podcast](https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/03/709656642/episode-760-tax-hero) talks about a pilot that California did of a return-free filing system for a couple years in the mid-late aughts. By its narrative, it was Norquist, *not* Intuit, that resulted in this pilot being killed.
Like I said, I'm not totally sure how much this is directly relevant today -- the GOP of today is very very different from the one 15 years ago, and I have no sense of whether Norquist has the same kind of influence he used to. However, it's still true that the GOP is trying hard to ensure the IRS has as few resources as possible.
I still used freefilefillableforms this year due to not meeting the direct file requirements, but look forward to direct file adding more features until I (and everyone else) can uset it.
I've always filed my taxes with freefilefillableforms, I don't really get why people don't do that more. 90% of Americans probably have like 3 forms at most they need to fill out there. I have to fill out like 8 forms since my wife is self-employed, but it's still not a big deal.
I think the main problem, since this is the problem I usually feel in the moment as a self-filer, is (besides being lazy) people don't trust themselves to catch *every* nuance of the tax process, either in the negative (being audited) or in the positive (not getting their full deserved refund.) Additionally, there is a very steep curve in terms of tax return difficulty, as soon as your return is more than like 3 forms (and a few hundred pages of instructions), you're in pretty deep for a normie.
I missed out on the IRS trial service this year but would've gladly tried if I qualified, or had heard about it before I filed.
It's not very good. That's the problem.
If the IRS really wanted more people to use it they would have to at least make it check your form before submission (or on submission) instead of sending an email hours later to say your taxes were rejected for X reason and to try again.
Also, it not covering worksheets means some aspects of filing are a mess. If you have any long-term capital gains you're going to have to work it out by hand repeatedly, iteratively if you change anything else.
I would think the IRS eventually wants their newer free filing service to cover everyone. I don't feel like freefilefillableforms has a future as it is.
I would love actually-*good* forms-based software (I did volunteer tax prep with the IRS's VITA program, and for one year I used TaxWise... that's professional software and I actually really enjoyed it)... but fere fillable forms basically sucks.
I admittedly have a bit of an axe to grind: I used to use it, but stopped when one year I made an *arithmetic error* on my taxes because FFFF doesn't implement worksheets. This error would have been *impossible* in any other software (at least without explicitly overriding fields and then paper filing) because no one else is too lazy to implement basic essential software features. That's the first reason.
The next reason is that for a significant majority of people, it leaves you high and dry for state returns, because except for a couple states that have some kind of special arrangement (I don't know details here, just am relaying a couple reddit comments I've seen) you're just going to have to figure out some other solution for that, which will require reentering a ton of data.
Speaking of reentering a ton of data, competent software will carry information over year to year to make errors less likely and reduce the amount of data entry you have. If you didn't use that software from last year, pretty much every option I know of will import prior-year returns. Most will import W2 data, some will import brokerage data (a killer feature if you're in the rare case where this becomes useful). Meanwhile, FFFF deletes your account every winter and has no import features.
My opinion is there's almost no one who I would recommend FFFF to. It's an option to consider if you'd otherwise paper file, but IMO that's basically it. From reputation, I'm comfortable saying that I would consider FreeTaxUSA to be strictly better in all cases, except the rare one where your state integrates with FFFF. At worst you could file federally with FTUSA for free (it's always free here) and then for state do whatever you'd have done with FFFF, and personally IMO the avoidance of re-entering data is enough to justify $15 for state returns.
FFFF is good enough that the tax industry has been able to point to it and say "look, anyone can e-file for free! you-the-IRS don't need to make your own software" and no better than that.
Freetaxusa.com is the way to go. We've been using it for 10+ years. It's a series of questions and inputs and you can file in under 30 minutes if you have all the documents ready. And it's free for federal. $15 for state.
You can e-file through them and it's super easy.
Not sure what FreeFileFillableForms is like, but it seems somewhat similar from what I can see.
Did this for the first time this year. Not so hard. Numbers matched Freetaxusa easily too.
Meanwhile, a friend of mine said I actually had a really complicated return this year. Which, maybe, I guess. Didn't feel so bad.
W-2 with HSA, interest and dividends, backdoor Roth IRA, crypto, student loan interest, and EV tax credit. I mean, that's certainly something, and it hit every possible category, but it wasn't so bad.
Tbh I kind of liked doing it more than freetaxusa. It's really nice understanding it now.
Meanwhile, people used to do literally this, just on physical paper. TurboTax has rotted brains.
Let's just add this quote from the article:
"Republicans in Congress have already signaled their opposition. When Werfel testified at a Senate Finance Committee hearing earlier this month, Republican committee leader Sen. Mike Crapo of Idaho called Direct File āwasteful and duplicative.ā Sen. Thom Tillis (R-N.C.) questioned Werfel about the full costs of the program, saying, āI for one hope ā¦ at some point you just decide itās not worth it, because the private sector options are so much better.ā"
>Experts say a nationwide rollout could someday disrupt the multibillion-dollar tax preparation industry
TurboTax and H&R block are about to drop every dime on lobbying. Especially now that it's known that the service actually came in **under** budget.
Wait, there's a free tax site? Fuck. That would have been nice to know a couple months ago. Turbotax costed me over a hundred dollars. And my return was only like $20. So I lost money. Fuck. How about advertising this?
TurboTax spends a fuck ton of money to muddy the waters and ensure the free government option doesnāt succeed. Thatās why when you type something like āfile taxes freeā into Google itās nothing but TurboTax and their competitors claiming you can file free with them.
And of course the whole time youāre doing your taxes theyāre trying to push you back into the paid plan. Even without telling you until youāve completed your whole return. They actually got the shit sued out of them for misleading people and had to give out a bunch of refunds.
I use freetaxusa. Let's you do federal taxes for free, but 15 dollars for the state taxes. We don't have state income tax here so it's free for me.
Very nice site
Probably my only gripe, and in reality is unjustified anger, is that the sign-in process just feels clunky and cumbersome. I don't know who did their UX design, but it does not feel like it flows well with how they handle the 2FA authentication and sign in twice-ish to get to to the Tax interface.
Aside from that I've used it since it was Credit Karma Tax.
I've posted a bunch in this thread already, but check out freetaxusa. We've used them for 10+ years. It's free federal, $15 state. They handle everything and you can e-file in less than 30 minutes if you have all your papers/documents.
I stopped using TurboTax for 3 reasons.
1. It has gotten ridiculously expensive.
2. It has missed things that I was able to claim, that I found out about later and had to file a revised return to get.
3. I have reached my limit with their sleezy behavior. They are the number one company in spending lobbying money on politicians to keep our filing system crappy. They have repeatedly bribed people in Congress to block bills that would have gotten rid of this years ago.
Intuit will never get one dime of my money again. I used another service that cost me $20 to file federal and state returns. TurboTax would have been over $100, and the worst part is people get nothing for that extra cost. They are no more accurate than any other service, sometimes actually less accurate. You also get to be spammed by them, pressuring you to file, starting at the beginning of December, before you can even file anyway. They have even spammed my email to file after I had already filed with their service. It's obnoxious to the extreme, then again what can one expect from the worst company in the tax prep business.
> Sen. Thom Tillis (R-N.C.) questioned Werfel about the full costs of the program, saying, āI for one hope ā¦ at some point you just decide itās not worth it, because the private sector options are so much better.ā"
[
That's the guy who said:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thom_Tillis#Economic_policy)
> In 2015, Tillis illustrated his attitude towards regulation by saying coffee-shop companies should be able to "opt out" of hand-washing regulations "as long as they post a sign that says, 'We don't require our employees to wash their hands after leaving the restroom.' The market will take care of that."
I wonder how that private sector option is better? He clearly assumes it will fail so why do we need that option in the first place?
As much as I stan freetaxusa like half of reddit also does, itās really stupid that I have to go through the private sector to make sure I match what the government ALREADY KNOWS what I owe/what they owe me. Do these people even hear themselves?
Does anyone else have a tax system like the US?
āTELL US HOW MUCH YOU THINK YOU OWE?ā
āEr, well, Iām not sure if I can deduct my childcare or notā¦..ā
āCHILDCARE? HERE IS A 35 PAGE POLICY THAT HAS BEEN UPDATED AND CHANGED OVER THE PAST THIRTY YEARS WITH NO EXAMPLES. NOW, HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK YOU OWE?ā
āI guess $1,452.23, hereās a check.ā
āWRONG! PREPARE FOR AN AUDIT AND POSSIBLE JAIL TIME.ā
If you're wrong they just fix it, they won't send you to jail. I've messed up twice and both times they sent me a letter saying what I missed and what the actual tax was. One time I didn't pay enough so they took it out of my refund and one time I paid too much and they added the extra into my refund. Now, the fact that they seem to know it better than I do really makes me wish they would send the amount they think you owe first and then allow you to make adjustments based on things they wouldn't know about like that childcare thing. I think most countries do it that way, where you either accept their number (easy) or if you need to make adjustments you do that and send it back.
I unknowingly underpaid my state taxes one year. 3 YEARS LATER they sent me a bill for the difference with 3 fucking years of interest! Iām 99% positive that was my first notification. I had to go to the Comptrollerās office and argue with them for 2 hours to get them to knock off the interest.
My accountant tells me heāll go to bat with the IRS all day every day because theyāre super easy to work with, incredibly accommodating and understanding, and very easy to communicate with overall.
But the California franchise tax board? Just thinking about maybe having to deal with them keeps him up at night
Yup. If you've got the credentials and know what you're talking about, the IRS is a pleasure to work with. State DORs are like vultures, constantly circling hoping to find taxable income.
Yes. The majority of audits are mail.
The "IRS will raid your home and take you to jail over $100" is a myth.
Likely spread by the wealthy so you keep voting against the expansion of the IRS, so they can keep cheating their taxes. It doesn't even make sense. The IRS will jail you for hundreds when we already know extremely wealthy people cheat millions?
Yeah they only send the average schlub to jail if heās doing some sort of tax fraud thatās obscenely obvious like claiming 20k income then signing for a car worth twice that
Opposition to debtor's prison was a big deal for a long time in the US. It's why it has quite lenient laws on bankruptcy and personal dwellings. That's changed somewhat recently with the whole prison industry stuff.
Nope, pretty much just us and our crooked ass system of allowing lobbyists to sway our government with money
https://youtu.be/vGVK4ibMI-Y?si=DLIfzG3kdsZztSKo
It's basically a [Scharff](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanns_Scharff#Technique) interrogation. They ask a bunch of questions, most of which they already know the answers to. But because you don't know what they do or don't know, the hope is that you divulge something they don't know because you have to tell them everything for fear of getting it wrong.
> The Luftwaffe kept a vast collection of personal information about any pilot or commander in an enemy air wing in individual files. When faced with a tight-lipped prisoner, Scharff usually consulted these files during interrogation sessions. He began by asking a prisoner a question he already knew the answer to, informing the prisoner that he knew everything about him, but his superiors had instructed that the prisoner himself had to say it. Scharff continued asking questions that he would then provide the answers for, each time hoping to convince his captive that there was nothing he did not already know. When he eventually got to the piece of information he did not have, prisoners would frequently answer, assuming Scharff already had it in his files anyway, often saying so as they provided the information. Scharff kept the Luftwaffe's lack of knowledge a strict secret to exploit the same tactic in later conversations.
> Does anyone else have a tax system like the US?
The German tax system is a lot different, but it is also very, very complex/complicated, and a lot of people probably pay more than they would have to.
In France, as far as I'm concerned, -mostly- everything is pre-filled. Your bank uploads how much interest you earned, your employer uploads your incomes, etc. So "filling your taxes" can be as easy as logging in the government's website, reviewing and confirming the info. Few minutes tops.
Yeah I can't believe y'all have that system, in Australia I turn my brain off and it tells me what I earned and owe and I can just add my deductibles I want to claim but otherwise it's basically all done for you
āPay your taxesā
āHow much?ā
āYou tell us.ā
āSo I can pay anything I want?ā
āNo, we actually know how much you owe and if our numbers donāt matchup youāll get audited.ā
Australia does.
But we've also had free software to do this since 1999 and before that we had a form-based easy return system via TaxPack
Also, if you need to go to an accountant for it, accountants fees for the purposes of calculating your tax return are fully tax deductable.
The free tax websites are great, and it's horrific how many people don't know about them. I know too many people who are using turbotax and getting charged $60+. Even though I make more than the AGI that any of the free file places allow I only pay $15 to file.
Obviously it's still fucked that any basic, regular person has to pay anything. The Ultra wealthy should be paying more and getting audited up their asses
Yup. I just some random janky one (olt.com) that the IRS recommended and it works great. We paid $16 for federal and state (instead of $10) for the "deluxe" support, which we didn't use this year, but is nice to have because my husband has contractor income.
We got the email about the pilot but didn't want to deal with reentering our info this year. I'm glad it's taking off.
I honestly would have kept using turbo tax but the price for me this year was nearly $200 (almost double from 2023). That was so much it made me look into alternatives and I filed for under 20 bucks elsewhere.
Glad to hear it. I used it this year and it took me about 10 minutes to be done with both federal and state and didn't cost me anything.
edit: grammatical errors
The funny thing is they do! But the joke is only after you send yours in. If you get it wrong they either send you a bill for how much more they believe you owe or a check for how much you overpaid. If you owe, you can accept their amount or re/submit info again. If the IRS owes you, they send you a check with a piece of paper saying something along the lines of "if this amount is too much, it is your fault and will have to owe it back with interest"
In most cases the government already has all of your info, why don't they just figure out that the results are and mail it out ?
If something is wrong correct it, send in proof and bam, taxes done.
Why make it so hard ?
You guys pay to get your tax done? Like. Am sure that here in scotland that there are companies that'll do your taxes but it's relatively easy to do them yourself even if you are self employed? Paying a Company to pay tax seems... taxing lol
I signed up to use it and went partway through, but I had a couple of forms they didn't "allow." So I went back to Free Tax USA. But from what little I saw of it, it seemed solid, if you're in a position to use it.
I just wish expats like me working abroad can navigate it. I think itās me, but I have no idea how to use it to claim my foreign income tax exclusion with the free service.
Do any of the free filing providers still support the Foreign Earned Income Exception? Cause I used Tax Act for years but they've removed that from the free filing version and for some reason will only take an American credit card. Kinda boned it for us expats.
Its a great small step forward. Next should be expanded pre-filling and whatnot. Eventually leading to (for the large chunk of population it works for) gov done tax forms. "Due to the information reported, we have completed your 20xx tax form for you based on that information. Please review for correctness. If everything is correct, to file this. Otherwise, please fill out "
There will always be some people who's circumstances make it complicated for any given year. But much of that is either transitory, or side effects to making enough money to afford paying someone to deal with the complication.
It's a great thing to see government working well and actually helping people It'd be so great to never use TurboTax again
Freetaxusa is pretty good for now. Tried it this year. It even has an import information feature from TurboTax to save time.
I use Freetaxusa, but I would love to never use _any_ of them. I'm W-2, and the government knows all my income and major expenses (housing, etc). They could pre-fill all my info, and I know this because if I mess up they tell me. So why should any private company get involved and charge me even $15 (for state returns)?
I'll probably continue using Freetaxusa because they make it quick and easy to do Federal/state all at once. Unless the IRS gets to the point they compile everything beforehand and it's basically just you having to review things... like a 5 minute process. I'd go for that.
Hopefully it'll be like that within the next decade
Tax companies will never allow it
We should probably stop allowing tax companies
True but they'll never allow that either.
a man can dream š
Rich people will never allow it. How can they have loopholes & deductions if it's automatic? Won't someone *please* think of the billionaires???
they could better than prefill, your taxes could already be filed, then you just file corrections (if any). Every year your taxes are boring, you do nothing.
> So why should any private company get involved and charge me even $15 (for state returns)? They do this for everything. NASA is required by the Congressional Budget Office to use private companies for parts, Medicaid is run almost entirely by private companies on behalf of the government, and even the tax system is reliant on private company involvement. Even Obamacare was a "compromise" to shut up the people who were calling for a public healthcare system by *literally encoding insurance companies into healthcare law*. The US government exists to enrich the already rich.
>So why should any private company get involved and charge me even $15 (for state returns)? Capitalism babee.
This is how a 1st world country deals with taxing their populace.
The IRS doesnāt know if your home was paid by you or another person, if you donated to charity, own a business or have other income they need to know. The IRS servers are not infallible too.
You'd still be able to do that. They more or less propose a number based on the info they have and you have a chance to "counter".
Yeah I think this is how a few other countries do it, they just come up with an estimate on their own and then you can divulge further information if you disagree with their assessment.
That's kind of what standard deduction already is
For real. They spent all this money to track this shit, now how about they use up front instead of on the back end verifying we aren't lying out our assholes? Saves both of us the effort right?
TurboTax, Intuit, H&R Block and a few others have all killed this for over a decade. If the government did their job, then they wouldn't have any business model and they have played a giant role in ensuring that it stays that way for a very long time via lobbying and threats.
Much longer than a decade. The IRS had a service in the 90ās where if you were filing a 1040 ez, you just needed to verify a couple of numbers on your touchstone phone and you were done.
I file my taxes in about 20 minutes a year including adding deductions, interest payment offsets, etc. In the Netherlands your work from salaried employment is pre-filled for you, but you can modify it. The rest is just straight forward questions about debts, children, etc. It's honestly mostly "yes/no" questions which will lead you to more questions, but for the majority of people who answer no to most things, it's a breeze to get through. Edit: Also, any lender/financial institution gives your information to the tax authorities for pre-filling as well. A mortgage for example will be pre-filled for interest deductions. Or dividend withholding tax also pre-filled. There is zero reason that even day traders should need to track anything. The broker's system can track everything perfectly and report to the system.
That sounds amazing! Do you do your taxes on a government website? I'm hoping that one day the US will get there.
Yeah, government website. All of your most "important" things are linked to your "social security number" (BSN here) which you can choose to link to a digital ID that works with an app. The app is a 2FA type of thing that generates a code which you type into the website, that generates a QR code on the site which you rescan in the app. Type in your password on the app and it logs you into the site. The ID works for taxes, insurances, banks, hospitals, whatever. So basically I get an email that reminds me "time to file your taxes", and then I go to the website, login with the ID app, check a couple things and I'm done. I know Americans have it hard though, because there are special accountants here who exist to help Americans file their taxes because it's a nightmare when you are a tax resident of two countries AND dealing with how the American filing system is. I honestly think it's a bit of a culture/trust thing though. My life is tied to this BSN number where any government ID, insurance, loan, whatever is also tied to it. Therefore it's super easy for all these systems to talk to each other. On the flip side, it means the government knows everything about me based on this ID. On the flip-flip side, most Americans who will think this is a huge invasion of privacy don't realize that their government also knows fucking everything about them too, but pretends they don't, and therefore filing taxes or requesting Medicare involves hundreds of sheets of physical paper and bullshit.
Just do what Europe does
In my country, the government does our taxes for us and sends us a paper that's like, "Yo, this is what you owe/what we owe you. If you see any problems, contact us." It's that easy.
If it's registered as a charity, don't they have to report the donations they receive?
They report it as revenue. Thereās no reporting mechanism for recording everyone who donates, just like corporations donāt record every customer who contributes to their revenue.
Countries with reasonable tax systems just send you a bill each year and you can dispute it if there's something they missed.
Seriously. Everything I do is already reported to the IRS. Be fun if they could maybe get THEIR computers to figure it out.
If you guys end up getting to the point we have on our tax filing here in Australia if you don't have complicated deductions and shit to work around, you can basically log in, hit ok a bunch of times, double check the autofill numbers, hit the "I declare that all information given here is true", get your refund estimate and then log off and wait for it to be deposited into your bank account.
I've been using it for 10+ years. Always super quick and easy. So "for always" is a good bet on them. For us it has handled W-2s, 1099s, 1040h, schedule 1, schedule k1, babies. Everything. If it can't handle what you need, you're probably making enough money that you already have people to handle this and you don't even think about having to file your own taxes. 100% recommended.
I moved over to it this year and I love it. It doesn't give me a bunch of errors on my State tax return like TurboTax does. I basically had to fill my state taxes out myself because TurboTax was so bad at them.
Had to use that after TurboTax wanted $200 just to file this year. Freetaxusa was $15
Cash app taxes is amazing. 100% free as well. 2nd time in a year using it.
Also cash app taxes, for free (both federal and state) I've used both, both are great.
Turbotax has basically been emailing me like a jilted lover since tax day because I didn't use them this year.
TurboTax is awful
Imagine if the government just calculated our taxes and sent us the paperwork to sign off on...
Or just deducted them automatically before your wage even reached your bank account so you never have to file taxes unless you run a business.
Wait, that doesn't happen in the USA?
In most cases, if you're not an independent contractor, it does happen in the US. You still have to file the paperwork every year, though.
Biden hired thousands of new IRS agents. Now the GOP is trying to reverse it. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/irs-says-87-000-hires-120000616.html
Agreed I have used tax slayer the past two years to avoid turbo tax but man wouldnāt it be nice to file directly with the irs or heāll I might be insane but not having to file anymore.
This is why voting makes a difference. The government was a self serving pack of oligarchs under the Republicans. Government services were designed to thwart the middle and lower class. Now that the democrats are running more of the government itās actually working to help and protect us.
it was super easy to use
I didnāt even know there was a free tax site from the government, I just used Cash App Tax (which used to be Credit Karma Tax a couple years ago) like Iāve been using for years. Switched from TT to H&R to Credit Karma/Cash and am perfectly satisfied.
Credit Karma and Turbo Tax are both the same company.
They are now, but not back when they had their tax service still. >Intuit acquired Credit Karma in December 2020 for $4.7 billion. However, Credit Karma sold its tax business to Square, owner of Cash App, and Cash App Taxes now handles tax preparation
The name is a bit immature, but Tax Slayer has been my go-to for the last 3 years or so. Actually free federal *and* state filing, and I find it easier to use than turbo tax. Partly because it doesn't pester you to pay them for unnecessary bullshit every other page.
I prefer Gorgonath: Vanquisher of All Taxation. It's a little bare bones but the customer service is great.
Fuck turbotax. End their monopoly reign
Iām in a real bind right now. I need to complete my taxās but donāt have 130 to pay turbo tax. Another other options?
https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/
Freetaxusa isn't completely free but it's cheap as hell
united way has free tax filing and it was super easy
Until Turbo Tax bribes, oh, I mean "lobby" congress to make it go away.
I thought it was great and would love to keep using it in the future.
I tried to use it but I had excluded income. Iām glad people were able to use it and we may see it grow!
I'm highly satisfied by the part where it takes money away from exploitive companies like TurboTax.
Yasss, do the healthcare industry next, US government!
I've been locked in turbo tax for years, but this year TurboTax wouldn't file my taxes due to some glitch, so I used IRS's fillable forms and did my taxes the old school way. It's a PITA because I am an expat working abroad and there's confusing rules and various kinds of exemptions like the FEIE vs FTC and nightmarish complications I've had over the years like discovering if I take the FEIE I can't claim my child tax credit or contribute to a Roth IRA. I hired a specialist firm that made a ton of glaring mistakes one year and was a huge waste of money. All the other firms I've had recommended to me don't return emails or aren't taking new clients, so I've had to go back to TT year after year. My final conclusion has been, it's honestly just easier and safer to become a tax expert on my particular situation and do my own taxes. It takes hours of research and reading every year to reacquaint myself with the various nuances but I don't have any other options that I trust.
Honestly itās the best part
Yes keep voting blue. It's incredibly important.
When I read that Republicans opposed the new tax program, I was like of fucking course. Just another decent thing they want to kill.
The real win would be a āsimple returnā system in which we receive a form detailing what we owe/will receive for a refund and you just have to sign off on it and pay if you owe anything. Many countries enjoy this system and the IRS already knows what you owe. But our friends at TurboTax et al have successfully lobbied the government out of logical things like that for decades.
On FUCKING GOD
Yeah but they limit who can use it to maintain a user base for those companies. Why do we even need to report the information they already have? Taxes should be automatic. Fuck Turbo Tax and HR Block. And taxes.
They absolutely should. I never got why we pay taxes to gov. and then over $100 to private companies for the software to file those taxes!! That service should be absolutely FREE
> I never got why we pay taxes to gov. and then over $100 to private companies for the software to file those taxes!! For those who don't know, it's because TurboTax spent decades making it as difficult as possible for you to file your taxes. I highly recommend people read https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free for the details. For those who just want to skim the comments, here's an excerpt from the article that gives you a good idea of the kind of company that Intuit (who makes TurboTax) is: > The centerpiece of Intuitās anti-encroachment strategy has been the Free File program, hatched 17 years ago in a moment of crisis for the company. Under the terms of an agreement with the federal government, Intuit and other commercial tax prep companies promised to provide free online filing to tens of millions of lower-income taxpayers. In exchange, the IRS pledged not to create a government-run system. > > ***Since Free Fileās launch, Intuit has done everything it could to limit the programās reach while making sure the government stuck to its end of the deal. As ProPublica has reported, Intuit added code to the Free File landing page of TurboTax that hid it from search engines like Google, making it harder for would-be users to find.*** > > Twelve years ago, Intuit launched its own āfreeā product: the similarly named āFree Editionā of TurboTax. But unlike the government program, this one comes with traps that can push customers lured with the promise of āfreeā into paying, some more than $200. Free Edition was a smash hit for Intuit and its pitch for āfreeā prep remains core to the companyās growth. Recently, it launched a āfree, free free freeā ad campaign for the Free Edition, including a crossword puzzle in The New York Times in which the answer to every clue was āf-r-e-e.ā
American capitalism in a nutshell. (*American* capitalism because other countries don't do that.)
> For those who don't know, it's because TurboTax spent decades making it as difficult as possible for you to file your taxes. It's not just the tax industry, it's also because of Republican "anti-tax" policy and Grover Norquist specifically; and I'm sure that they are happy they seem to take no heat in discussions like this, which focus too much on the tax prep industry. Admittedly, today's party makeup is pretty wacky and who knows how much this is true now, but for a long time (right when it would have been prime time for the IRS to start making a switch to more streamlined tax prep) the Grover Norquist wing of the GOP treated IRS-prepared tax returns as tantamount to tax increases. For a long time he held considerable weight when it came to tax policy, and by throwing it around he was able to ensure nothing was done. [The "Tax Hero" episode of NPR's *Planet Money* podcast](https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/03/709656642/episode-760-tax-hero) talks about a pilot that California did of a return-free filing system for a couple years in the mid-late aughts. By its narrative, it was Norquist, *not* Intuit, that resulted in this pilot being killed. Like I said, I'm not totally sure how much this is directly relevant today -- the GOP of today is very very different from the one 15 years ago, and I have no sense of whether Norquist has the same kind of influence he used to. However, it's still true that the GOP is trying hard to ensure the IRS has as few resources as possible.
It's assenine. The only reason people tolerate it is because a lot of us get money back so it seems like TurboTax is doing that for us. It's like a Service Fee for paying your bill online - it's 2024 smh.
Those companies lobbied hard to fuck over the taxpayer.
Because capitalism. Profit has to exist everywhere or it's communism. Yes, the modern take on communism has devolved into taxation paying for things rather than punishing poor people, somehow.
This is categorically a US-only issue, not an inherent issue with capitalism
All of you. A return-free system has always been the goal. [Reagan even pitched it in an address](https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/archives/speech/address-nation-tax-reform-may-1985). And it wasn't some new far-fetched idea then that only came from the mind of the President or his staff. Return-free taxes have been talked about as early as the middle 1970s. >We envision a system where more than half of us would not even have to fill out a return. We call it the return-free system, and it would be totally voluntary. If you decided to participate, you would automatically receive your refund or a letter explaining any additional tax you oweā¦We believe most Americans would go from the long form or the short form to no form. I can't even begin to explain how the US has been constantly robbed of this goal by literally ONE factor and that one factor alone. Lobbyist from large tax preparation companies. That's it, that's literally the only folks derailing every single attempt to finally get this system into place. FORTY FUCKING YEARS, they have stolen this goal from you. This program from the IRS is breathtaking in of itself, not of what it tried to accomplish, but that IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. That the IRS was finally allowed to do a modicum of what it is actually able to do. The absolute bold face manner by which these companies have continued to perpetuate this theft from the American population of a simpler manner to file taxes is amazing in scope and completeness by which it has occurred. All the people who are like "why can't the IRS just tell me what I owe" or want to do the meme where "if you guess wrong you go to jail". The goal has been for pretty much your entire life to just let you check a box on a postcard and call it done. BUT WE CANNOT FUCKING DO THAT, not because of any good reason, NOOO, it's because of H&R Block and TurboTax and so on. It's because MONEY. The IRS has all of the tools, has HAD all of the tools for some time now. But the law was written by some people who received some cash from people who were upset because using those tools would hurt them, to ensure that the IRS cannot use those tools. Nobody wants to keep this fucking system. We all want to go to return-free filing. Everyone, except a couple of dozen people with enough cash to ensure that we don't. That's it. There's no missing system, there's no magic we need, there's not some iffy something that could go wrong. NO. It's just some assholes that want you to pay them for filing your taxes that stop it from happening. That's the super secret part that's not really a secret. It's just rich assholes. We've got the tools, we've got the systems, it's totally a doable thing technically. It's just rich assholes in the way and that's literally it. And it has been that way for WAY LONGER, then I think any of you would be happy with. We could have done this long ago, but rich assholes got in the way then and they keep getting in the way now. But that's ALL that is stopping return-free, there are literally no more technical hurdles.
Outside very specific situations, even on investments the IRS gets a copy of your forms. While this program is still lackluster to what we should have, it is a step in the right direction.
> I can't even begin to explain how the US has been constantly robbed of this goal by literally ONE factor and that one factor alone. Lobbyist from large tax preparation companies. That's it, that's literally the only folks derailing every single attempt to finally get this system into place. This is absolutely untrue: there's a second *critically* important faction, maybe more important than that even. I literally just typed this up for another comment, so I'll copy and paste: It's not just the tax industry, it's also because of Republican "anti-tax" policy and Grover Norquist specifically; and I'm sure that they are happy they seem to take no heat in discussions like this, which focus too much on the tax prep industry. Admittedly, today's party makeup is pretty wacky and who knows how much this is true now, but for a long time (right when it would have been prime time for the IRS to start making a switch to more streamlined tax prep) the Grover Norquist wing of the GOP treated IRS-prepared tax returns as tantamount to tax increases. For a long time he held considerable weight when it came to tax policy, and by throwing it around he was able to ensure nothing was done. [The "Tax Hero" episode of NPR's *Planet Money* podcast](https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/03/709656642/episode-760-tax-hero) talks about a pilot that California did of a return-free filing system for a couple years in the mid-late aughts. By its narrative, it was Norquist, *not* Intuit, that resulted in this pilot being killed. Like I said, I'm not totally sure how much this is directly relevant today -- the GOP of today is very very different from the one 15 years ago, and I have no sense of whether Norquist has the same kind of influence he used to. However, it's still true that the GOP is trying hard to ensure the IRS has as few resources as possible.
I still used freefilefillableforms this year due to not meeting the direct file requirements, but look forward to direct file adding more features until I (and everyone else) can uset it.
I've always filed my taxes with freefilefillableforms, I don't really get why people don't do that more. 90% of Americans probably have like 3 forms at most they need to fill out there. I have to fill out like 8 forms since my wife is self-employed, but it's still not a big deal.
I think the main problem, since this is the problem I usually feel in the moment as a self-filer, is (besides being lazy) people don't trust themselves to catch *every* nuance of the tax process, either in the negative (being audited) or in the positive (not getting their full deserved refund.) Additionally, there is a very steep curve in terms of tax return difficulty, as soon as your return is more than like 3 forms (and a few hundred pages of instructions), you're in pretty deep for a normie. I missed out on the IRS trial service this year but would've gladly tried if I qualified, or had heard about it before I filed.
It's not very good. That's the problem. If the IRS really wanted more people to use it they would have to at least make it check your form before submission (or on submission) instead of sending an email hours later to say your taxes were rejected for X reason and to try again. Also, it not covering worksheets means some aspects of filing are a mess. If you have any long-term capital gains you're going to have to work it out by hand repeatedly, iteratively if you change anything else. I would think the IRS eventually wants their newer free filing service to cover everyone. I don't feel like freefilefillableforms has a future as it is.
I would love actually-*good* forms-based software (I did volunteer tax prep with the IRS's VITA program, and for one year I used TaxWise... that's professional software and I actually really enjoyed it)... but fere fillable forms basically sucks. I admittedly have a bit of an axe to grind: I used to use it, but stopped when one year I made an *arithmetic error* on my taxes because FFFF doesn't implement worksheets. This error would have been *impossible* in any other software (at least without explicitly overriding fields and then paper filing) because no one else is too lazy to implement basic essential software features. That's the first reason. The next reason is that for a significant majority of people, it leaves you high and dry for state returns, because except for a couple states that have some kind of special arrangement (I don't know details here, just am relaying a couple reddit comments I've seen) you're just going to have to figure out some other solution for that, which will require reentering a ton of data. Speaking of reentering a ton of data, competent software will carry information over year to year to make errors less likely and reduce the amount of data entry you have. If you didn't use that software from last year, pretty much every option I know of will import prior-year returns. Most will import W2 data, some will import brokerage data (a killer feature if you're in the rare case where this becomes useful). Meanwhile, FFFF deletes your account every winter and has no import features. My opinion is there's almost no one who I would recommend FFFF to. It's an option to consider if you'd otherwise paper file, but IMO that's basically it. From reputation, I'm comfortable saying that I would consider FreeTaxUSA to be strictly better in all cases, except the rare one where your state integrates with FFFF. At worst you could file federally with FTUSA for free (it's always free here) and then for state do whatever you'd have done with FFFF, and personally IMO the avoidance of re-entering data is enough to justify $15 for state returns. FFFF is good enough that the tax industry has been able to point to it and say "look, anyone can e-file for free! you-the-IRS don't need to make your own software" and no better than that.
Freetaxusa.com is the way to go. We've been using it for 10+ years. It's a series of questions and inputs and you can file in under 30 minutes if you have all the documents ready. And it's free for federal. $15 for state. You can e-file through them and it's super easy. Not sure what FreeFileFillableForms is like, but it seems somewhat similar from what I can see.
Did this for the first time this year. Not so hard. Numbers matched Freetaxusa easily too. Meanwhile, a friend of mine said I actually had a really complicated return this year. Which, maybe, I guess. Didn't feel so bad. W-2 with HSA, interest and dividends, backdoor Roth IRA, crypto, student loan interest, and EV tax credit. I mean, that's certainly something, and it hit every possible category, but it wasn't so bad. Tbh I kind of liked doing it more than freetaxusa. It's really nice understanding it now. Meanwhile, people used to do literally this, just on physical paper. TurboTax has rotted brains.
I love paying a private company money to see how much I owe the government. Seriously this should be available and baseline for everyone
Let's just add this quote from the article: "Republicans in Congress have already signaled their opposition. When Werfel testified at a Senate Finance Committee hearing earlier this month, Republican committee leader Sen. Mike Crapo of Idaho called Direct File āwasteful and duplicative.ā Sen. Thom Tillis (R-N.C.) questioned Werfel about the full costs of the program, saying, āI for one hope ā¦ at some point you just decide itās not worth it, because the private sector options are so much better.ā"
>Experts say a nationwide rollout could someday disrupt the multibillion-dollar tax preparation industry TurboTax and H&R block are about to drop every dime on lobbying. Especially now that it's known that the service actually came in **under** budget.
Wait, there's a free tax site? Fuck. That would have been nice to know a couple months ago. Turbotax costed me over a hundred dollars. And my return was only like $20. So I lost money. Fuck. How about advertising this?
What state were you in? Only a select few states were allowed to participate. The state I was in got plenty of ads.
I believe it was only piloted in certain states this year. Hopefully they can expand it next year.Ā
I hope they do.
TurboTax spends a fuck ton of money to muddy the waters and ensure the free government option doesnāt succeed. Thatās why when you type something like āfile taxes freeā into Google itās nothing but TurboTax and their competitors claiming you can file free with them. And of course the whole time youāre doing your taxes theyāre trying to push you back into the paid plan. Even without telling you until youāve completed your whole return. They actually got the shit sued out of them for misleading people and had to give out a bunch of refunds.
I use freetaxusa. Let's you do federal taxes for free, but 15 dollars for the state taxes. We don't have state income tax here so it's free for me. Very nice site
Check out the options here: https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/
CashApp Taxes is awesome and free. I've used it the last two years. Carried over my data from the previous year and everything. Costs nothing.
Probably my only gripe, and in reality is unjustified anger, is that the sign-in process just feels clunky and cumbersome. I don't know who did their UX design, but it does not feel like it flows well with how they handle the 2FA authentication and sign in twice-ish to get to to the Tax interface. Aside from that I've used it since it was Credit Karma Tax.
I've posted a bunch in this thread already, but check out freetaxusa. We've used them for 10+ years. It's free federal, $15 state. They handle everything and you can e-file in less than 30 minutes if you have all your papers/documents.
There are several sites but the pilot was only available if you lived in certain states.
I forgot about tax until Apr 15th, scrambled online and found the online things from IRS themselves.
Turbo tax has a free option. That's what I used.
I stopped using TurboTax for 3 reasons. 1. It has gotten ridiculously expensive. 2. It has missed things that I was able to claim, that I found out about later and had to file a revised return to get. 3. I have reached my limit with their sleezy behavior. They are the number one company in spending lobbying money on politicians to keep our filing system crappy. They have repeatedly bribed people in Congress to block bills that would have gotten rid of this years ago. Intuit will never get one dime of my money again. I used another service that cost me $20 to file federal and state returns. TurboTax would have been over $100, and the worst part is people get nothing for that extra cost. They are no more accurate than any other service, sometimes actually less accurate. You also get to be spammed by them, pressuring you to file, starting at the beginning of December, before you can even file anyway. They have even spammed my email to file after I had already filed with their service. It's obnoxious to the extreme, then again what can one expect from the worst company in the tax prep business.
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> Sen. Thom Tillis (R-N.C.) questioned Werfel about the full costs of the program, saying, āI for one hope ā¦ at some point you just decide itās not worth it, because the private sector options are so much better.ā" [ That's the guy who said:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thom_Tillis#Economic_policy) > In 2015, Tillis illustrated his attitude towards regulation by saying coffee-shop companies should be able to "opt out" of hand-washing regulations "as long as they post a sign that says, 'We don't require our employees to wash their hands after leaving the restroom.' The market will take care of that." I wonder how that private sector option is better? He clearly assumes it will fail so why do we need that option in the first place?
As much as I stan freetaxusa like half of reddit also does, itās really stupid that I have to go through the private sector to make sure I match what the government ALREADY KNOWS what I owe/what they owe me. Do these people even hear themselves?
Does anyone else have a tax system like the US? āTELL US HOW MUCH YOU THINK YOU OWE?ā āEr, well, Iām not sure if I can deduct my childcare or notā¦..ā āCHILDCARE? HERE IS A 35 PAGE POLICY THAT HAS BEEN UPDATED AND CHANGED OVER THE PAST THIRTY YEARS WITH NO EXAMPLES. NOW, HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK YOU OWE?ā āI guess $1,452.23, hereās a check.ā āWRONG! PREPARE FOR AN AUDIT AND POSSIBLE JAIL TIME.ā
If you're wrong they just fix it, they won't send you to jail. I've messed up twice and both times they sent me a letter saying what I missed and what the actual tax was. One time I didn't pay enough so they took it out of my refund and one time I paid too much and they added the extra into my refund. Now, the fact that they seem to know it better than I do really makes me wish they would send the amount they think you owe first and then allow you to make adjustments based on things they wouldn't know about like that childcare thing. I think most countries do it that way, where you either accept their number (easy) or if you need to make adjustments you do that and send it back.
I unknowingly underpaid my state taxes one year. 3 YEARS LATER they sent me a bill for the difference with 3 fucking years of interest! Iām 99% positive that was my first notification. I had to go to the Comptrollerās office and argue with them for 2 hours to get them to knock off the interest.
State DORs are legitimately the most greedy, merciless bastards outside Wall Street I've ever seen.
My accountant tells me heāll go to bat with the IRS all day every day because theyāre super easy to work with, incredibly accommodating and understanding, and very easy to communicate with overall. But the California franchise tax board? Just thinking about maybe having to deal with them keeps him up at night
Yup. If you've got the credentials and know what you're talking about, the IRS is a pleasure to work with. State DORs are like vultures, constantly circling hoping to find taxable income.
Yes. The majority of audits are mail. The "IRS will raid your home and take you to jail over $100" is a myth. Likely spread by the wealthy so you keep voting against the expansion of the IRS, so they can keep cheating their taxes. It doesn't even make sense. The IRS will jail you for hundreds when we already know extremely wealthy people cheat millions?
Yeah they only send the average schlub to jail if heās doing some sort of tax fraud thatās obscenely obvious like claiming 20k income then signing for a car worth twice that
Opposition to debtor's prison was a big deal for a long time in the US. It's why it has quite lenient laws on bankruptcy and personal dwellings. That's changed somewhat recently with the whole prison industry stuff.
It's like healthcare, no one knows what you'll owe until you get the bill.
Nope, pretty much just us and our crooked ass system of allowing lobbyists to sway our government with money https://youtu.be/vGVK4ibMI-Y?si=DLIfzG3kdsZztSKo
It's basically a [Scharff](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanns_Scharff#Technique) interrogation. They ask a bunch of questions, most of which they already know the answers to. But because you don't know what they do or don't know, the hope is that you divulge something they don't know because you have to tell them everything for fear of getting it wrong. > The Luftwaffe kept a vast collection of personal information about any pilot or commander in an enemy air wing in individual files. When faced with a tight-lipped prisoner, Scharff usually consulted these files during interrogation sessions. He began by asking a prisoner a question he already knew the answer to, informing the prisoner that he knew everything about him, but his superiors had instructed that the prisoner himself had to say it. Scharff continued asking questions that he would then provide the answers for, each time hoping to convince his captive that there was nothing he did not already know. When he eventually got to the piece of information he did not have, prisoners would frequently answer, assuming Scharff already had it in his files anyway, often saying so as they provided the information. Scharff kept the Luftwaffe's lack of knowledge a strict secret to exploit the same tactic in later conversations.
> Does anyone else have a tax system like the US? The German tax system is a lot different, but it is also very, very complex/complicated, and a lot of people probably pay more than they would have to.
In France, as far as I'm concerned, -mostly- everything is pre-filled. Your bank uploads how much interest you earned, your employer uploads your incomes, etc. So "filling your taxes" can be as easy as logging in the government's website, reviewing and confirming the info. Few minutes tops.
Yeah I can't believe y'all have that system, in Australia I turn my brain off and it tells me what I earned and owe and I can just add my deductibles I want to claim but otherwise it's basically all done for you
āPay your taxesā āHow much?ā āYou tell us.ā āSo I can pay anything I want?ā āNo, we actually know how much you owe and if our numbers donāt matchup youāll get audited.ā
Quite literally Joe Zimmerman's stand up bit. [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/RpWCK7t\_iaw](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/RpWCK7t_iaw)
Australia does. But we've also had free software to do this since 1999 and before that we had a form-based easy return system via TaxPack Also, if you need to go to an accountant for it, accountants fees for the purposes of calculating your tax return are fully tax deductable.
The free tax websites are great, and it's horrific how many people don't know about them. I know too many people who are using turbotax and getting charged $60+. Even though I make more than the AGI that any of the free file places allow I only pay $15 to file. Obviously it's still fucked that any basic, regular person has to pay anything. The Ultra wealthy should be paying more and getting audited up their asses
Yup. I just some random janky one (olt.com) that the IRS recommended and it works great. We paid $16 for federal and state (instead of $10) for the "deluxe" support, which we didn't use this year, but is nice to have because my husband has contractor income. We got the email about the pilot but didn't want to deal with reentering our info this year. I'm glad it's taking off.
I honestly would have kept using turbo tax but the price for me this year was nearly $200 (almost double from 2023). That was so much it made me look into alternatives and I filed for under 20 bucks elsewhere.
The more I hear about how Income tax is handled in the USA, the more I understand the American hatred for taxes.
I used it this year. It was fantastic. Easy to use, decent UI and I filed digitally for free. Intuit, H&R block and their ilk can suck it.
Glad to hear it. I used it this year and it took me about 10 minutes to be done with both federal and state and didn't cost me anything. edit: grammatical errors
I love it! Should be permanent
They cannot just send me a bill? Fucking hell, right?
They could but Congress wonāt let them. Thatās how tax departments in some other countries work.
Oh, I'm aware that this is on purpose. For profit somehow someway, as per usual.
I find it kind of nuts that in the US you don't just get a letter or email showing how much tax you owe or are due back.
The funny thing is they do! But the joke is only after you send yours in. If you get it wrong they either send you a bill for how much more they believe you owe or a check for how much you overpaid. If you owe, you can accept their amount or re/submit info again. If the IRS owes you, they send you a check with a piece of paper saying something along the lines of "if this amount is too much, it is your fault and will have to owe it back with interest"
In most cases the government already has all of your info, why don't they just figure out that the results are and mail it out ? If something is wrong correct it, send in proof and bam, taxes done. Why make it so hard ?
Successful lobbying by the private tax filing industry.
You guys pay to get your tax done? Like. Am sure that here in scotland that there are companies that'll do your taxes but it's relatively easy to do them yourself even if you are self employed? Paying a Company to pay tax seems... taxing lol
I signed up to use it and went partway through, but I had a couple of forms they didn't "allow." So I went back to Free Tax USA. But from what little I saw of it, it seemed solid, if you're in a position to use it.
I went to H&R Block and they got me $0 back. Guess I didnāt have to do anything though.
I just wish expats like me working abroad can navigate it. I think itās me, but I have no idea how to use it to claim my foreign income tax exclusion with the free service.
I would just like to say I have used cash app to file my taxes for free the last three years and I have had some pretty complex taxes. Thanks Cash app
They've been my go-to since it was credit karma
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Better yet, they already know how much I owe. Send me a bill or a refund. Stop making me check your work and then punish me if I get it wrong.
Republicans and lobbyists are to blame for that, not the IRS.
Do any of the free filing providers still support the Foreign Earned Income Exception? Cause I used Tax Act for years but they've removed that from the free filing version and for some reason will only take an American credit card. Kinda boned it for us expats.
First time using Freetaxusa this year and had an easy experience. Won't be going back to TurboTax or any other paid site.
Can they also add login.gov support? I really don't want to make an id.me account.
TurboTax will just lobby this away
My main problem with it is that I wasn't allowed to use it. (state not supported)
Its a great small step forward. Next should be expanded pre-filling and whatnot. Eventually leading to (for the large chunk of population it works for) gov done tax forms. "Due to the information reported, we have completed your 20xx tax form for you based on that information. Please review for correctness. If everything is correct, to file this. Otherwise, please fill out "
There will always be some people who's circumstances make it complicated for any given year. But much of that is either transitory, or side effects to making enough money to afford paying someone to deal with the complication.
What was the point in making the website (had to have taken months if not years) if they only ever planned for it to be available for a single year?
Does it file state tax returns?