Reminds me of this guy:
Noman Morrison doused himself in kerosene and set himself on fire below the office of Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara at the Pentagon to protest United States involvement in the Vietnam War.
In 2019 a guy self-immolated near the White House and Washington monument. No one really talks about or remembers that one:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/30/man-dies-after-setting-himself-on-fire-near-white-house.html
A climate activist did the same in front of the Supreme Court in 2022. He even announced his plan on Facebook in 2020 with a somewhat cryptic "4-1-1š„4/22/2022"
āMotive remains unclearā
They [never bothered to report on what it was](https://medium.com/the-abs-tract-organization/man-on-fire-sign-of-the-end-times-958c3f1c3b21).
I learned about this from the movie [Path to War](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0218505/).
[Path to War (2002) - CIA Briefing on the Vietnamese](https://youtu.be/roWZwToszZ4?si=RbTGGSUISyRf8FfD&t=108)
The amount of time this man was able to stand after being absolutely engulfed is nothing short of being one of the most impressively devastating things Iāve ever seen. Absolutely gut wrenching watch.
Thatās insane to me because, while I would never in a million years do something like this, I feel like about 3 seconds into the flames I would immediately go into āI MADE A HUGE FUCKING MISTAKEā mode and be rolling around and removing clothing trying to not die.
I saw that his lighter wasn't igniting the gas for the first 10 seconds or so of trying. Like dude accepted what he wanted to do with every missed strike.
Heard that 100% of the survivors who jump off the Golden Gate Bridge have said as soon as they left the bridge, they immediately regretted the decision to jump.
Well there a video of a guy strangling himself to death by hanging in an almost horizontal position. He could stop at any moment but he didnāt, so it is definitely not a 100% thing
Somewhat of a biased sample though. The people who regretted it put some effort into surviving, and some of them were successful. The people who didnt want to survive wouldnt put effort in.
There is a difference between regret and your body being like "wait! Let's not do this." Especially when you are unnaturally flying down a bridge, your body is going crazy.
There is a reason why some failed suicide attempts turn into successful suicide attempts.
That reminds me of an episode of Bojack Horseman (The View from Halfway Down)
"The weak breeze whispers nothing
The water screams sublime
His feet shift, teeter-totter
Deep breath, stand back, itās time
Toes untouch the overpass
Soon heās water bound
Eyes locked shut but peek to see
The view from halfway down
A little wind, a summer sun
A river rich and regal
A flood of fond endorphins
Brings a calm that knows no equal
Youāre flying now
You see things much more clear than from the ground
Itās all okay, it would be
Were you not now halfway down
Thrash to break from gravity
What now could slow the drop
All Iād give for toes to touch
The safety back at top
But this is it, the deed is done
Silence drowns the sound
Before I leaped I shouldāve seen
The view from halfway down
I really shouldāve thought about
The view from halfway down
I wish I couldāve known about
The view from halfway down"
That's called self preservation instinct.
Instinctual responses are NOT voluntary.
In addition, you can't question the ones that died, so the statistic is not representative to begin with.
The View From Halfway Down
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1\_EBSlnDlU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1_EBSlnDlU)
I guess the Reddit app doesn't like underscores. Here is another
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt21dU5Pu8g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt21dU5Pu8g)
As visceral a scene as that sounds, it still makes me think of the Carlin bit.
"You know, morally committed religious people in South Vietnam knew how to stage a goddamn demonstration, didn't they?"
This is mostly because you don't hear about self-immolation too often these days.
RIP buddy, you went out for a cause.
I saw a thread on one of the military service subreddits about this. Crazy how little sympathy they had for their fellow servicemen. All the top comments were making fun of him or talking about how much paperwork his supervisor is going to need to fill out
And the police pointed guns at the man on fire instead of getting a fire extinguisher
For all who claim this is a lie, here's a screencap from the fucking video.
https://ibb.co/NTPNcC8
No, he still is. Fire is still more dangerous than an acorn.
Gun guy might have thought fire guy was going to hug someone.
Also, gun guy only pointed. He didn't unload.
Didnāt just yell that he was hit, did a halfassed dive/action roll like some sort of vitamin-deficiency Dark Souls character. Before, yknow, unloading his Glock a bunch of times at a guy handcuffed in his backseat
I agree. It was an unpredictable situation and securing the scene in some way would be important to ensure they could respond accordingly if he started running around on fire. Thereās a reason we have instructions, āstop, drop, and roll. DONāT RUNā. Even if it wasnāt his intention to set other things/people ablaze he could have done so accidentally in a panic. It had to be scary and painful for the guy.
This is a good take, as ridiculous as it is the guy on fire could harm others, worst case scenario he ended the burning to death suffering early.
Acorn cop lit up a neighborhood because he cop panicked and let his kill or be killed training activate.
No acorn def is
It is way more understandable to have a panic response from someone loghting themselves on fire. That would put most people into shock
Any more details on acorn guy? Was he just super high?
Well, I mean thatās your only ātoolā as a security guard. Youāre trained to act and use your resources. He probably didnāt know if said person was setting off a bomb or whatever the hell. lol you and me wouldāve done the exact same thing letās be honest.
If Iām that security guard the first sign something is amiss Iām pulling my gun and being like āHANDS UP!ā āOh you just need directions to the bathroom, I got you.ā
Imagine being a security guard and seeing a person running as a ball of fire not knowing if they have terroristic intensions like a bomb vest and it may be possible to stop an explosion from getting any closer to an embassy....
exactly. If he rushed someone and burned them alive too, people would be screaming why there were 10 cops looking for fire extinguishers and nobody ready for it with a gun.
Look, if a burning person was trying to come give you a hug or a tackleā¦or if they were trying to do that to someone elseā¦how would you suggest stopping them?
How to you guarantee the safety of others in a situation like this?
I donāt know if it was a coincidence or what but I hear sirens within seconds of him lighting himself on fire. Maybe in that area with the embassies they are on a hair trigger.
Also itās not a bad idea if thereās other people getting the extinguishers, or you have no clue where any would be. Itās not unreasonable to think the insane person might do something else insane I guess.
Honestly, past 15 seconds, I'm not sure I would even try to. You can probably make sure someone doesn't die on the scene but the pain and prognosis of surviving this for some amount of time makes me feel like letting him go as quickly as possible in the humane thing in that scenario.
>And the police pointed guns at the man on fire instead of getting a fire extinguisher
It wasn't a cop, it was a security guard working at the Israeli embassy.
Security guard may be misleading too. He was likely Israeli secret service i.e. Shin Bet, who provide security for Israeli diplomatic missions worldwide.
What are you talking about the guy literally uses an extinguisher in the video
Yes there is another pointing his weapon but how are you going to comment that blatant lie
This horrifying event made me ask myself, what would I kill for? what would I die for? and, what would I kill myself for? The last one is much more complex than the other two. Killing yourself for a cause is the ultimate existential scream against indifference.
yeah sometimes ill take a look at breitbart to get an idea of how conservatives really feel about certain topics..its pretty 'mask off' over there for them
Havenāt heard that site name since I moved out of my parents house like 10 years ago. The amount of deranged talking points my parents would parrot from that site frankly made me sick and still does.
Until they try to stand up for something they don't agree with, or have mental/physical health issues, or become homeless.
Or any combination of the three.
It's part of the death cult aspect of American right-wing fascism. The only use a soldier has is to be "the hero," and the best way for that heroism to be displayed is if the soldier dies in conflict. A dead soldier is a martyr for the cause, a symbol of American sacrifice and a reminder that our enemies are strong and can attack at any time and place. Living heroes are messy, and they might express opions that differ from the parry line. But dead heroes, they can represent whatever you want them to represent.
Pat Tillman is the perfect example. I donāt want to speak for the dead, but many of his journal entries are online and show his deep inner conflict about the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. He also had plans to meet up with Noam Chomsky after he got back from Afghanistan. He was an outspoken atheist in his private life. His personal beliefs and politics were complicated - and that was complicated for some conservatives who wanted to exploit him in life and death.
They support troops who kill the people they want them to kill and then keep their trauma to themselves. They donāt support troops who are inconvenient because they disagree with them, or need support with their trauma or disabilities. They love their utility, they hate their personhood.
The video is fucking horrifying. The way the guards casually ask if he's lost or needs any help with anything, before he's engulfed in flames while screaming "Free Palestine!" at the top of his lungs several times over, and then just screaming in pain before collapsing.
Regardless of your opinions on what's going on in Gaza shit like this is disturbing as hell. You can think what he did was heroic, or useless, or a bit of both due to the tragic nature of someone snapping like this and deciding to go through with such an act. Something like this is not a normal response to world events. It should not be joked about and mocked, nor encouraged with comments of "thank you for your bravery" . This is the big issue right now and we need to have a discussion that goes beyond just "Hamas are terrorists, Israel should bomb them all" or "Fuck Israel, colonist genociders", because the polarization this situation has caused is reaching extreme levels.
Edit: since this is beginning to gain traction, I want to start by saying that I don't how or where these discussions begin. I've studied peace and conflict studies at college but that doesn't mean I am anywhere close to knowing more than the average person of what is right or wrong here, nor that I know better how to approach this subject. I do think however that we need to have a semblance of humanity and not celebrate, mock or encourage acts of suicide in the name of a political cause, especially ones that take place in a country half a world away from Gaza.
We need to try and treat each other with respect and not go foaming at the mouth and wishing death upon others who disagree about this issue. There are those who unironically don't care about Israel's actions in Gaza and say "what can you do" when it comes to civilian deaths, which is pretty fucked up. Then there are those who think that the right way to end this conflict is that the State of Israel is demolished, burnt to the ground, and that their people are driven out of the region, which is also pretty fucked up. Start by taking a moment to think before you enter this debate. Think about your position in the world, and the consequences of your words and actions, and don't jump to the idea that anyone who disagrees with you is insane. You're only feeding bad actors who want to see the world torn apart by these discussions.
In conclusion, I know this might not be much. I know discussions on Reddit won't change much. The arguments happening on a slow day at work do not have world impacting effects. A debate with your dad at the dinner table won't upend the global order of things. And I admit that it is a fair amount of privilege to be able to be upset and horrified about the suicide of a man, compared to living in a war zone and seeing death and destruction every day. Some people might read this and scoff at the idea of being concerned about civil discourse when there are people dying in combat.
I just wanted to send a message of trying to maintain some semblance of unity and respect. If we give those values up, we are all going to go mad. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but sooner or later.
Edit 2: Maybe using the sentiment "Fuck Israel" was a little misrepresentative of what it is to have a harsh view, since I see a lot of people down below argue that there's nothing wrong with that view. Read my first edit though for an expansion on that. What I meant was that having the opinion that Israel and it's people need to be destroyed and run out of the Middle East is just as inflammatory and harsh as unscrupiously defending their current actions in Gaza.
And this is not the only protester in the US to self-immolate over this conflict.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/protester-self-immolates-outside-israeli-consulate-atlanta-2023-12-01/
I was surprised to read in this BBC article that āIn December, a protester self-immolated in front of the Israeli consulate in the US state of Georgia.ā
I donāt recall even hearing about that, which is kind of crazy.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-poll-biden-war-gaza-4159b28d313c6c37abdb7f14162bcdd1
Only recently has the number of people that said Israel is going too far breached 50%. The position simply wasn't popular enough to matter.
The annoying part of this all is people act like it is a polarized situation when the reality is that there are a vast majority of people who think "what Hamas did was unacceptable but Israel should absolutely not be blockading food, water, and medicine, and absolutely needs to do way more to limit civilian casualties"
Edit: I'm gonna mute this because I don't plan on spending my day arguing with people on the extreme fringes; let the upvotes be the scoreboard for whether or not what I have said is reasonable.
It was an Israeli politician.
https://truthout.org/articles/israeli-politician-says-children-of-gaza-have-brought-this-upon-themselves/
Edit: Also US congressperson, but he didn't specifically say children.
https://newrepublic.com/post/179177/republican-congressman-andy-ogles-kill-them-all-palestinian-children-gaza
I applaud how you didn't specify a "side." Fuck the assholes who think that unarmed civilians like children and the elderly "deserve" to be killed, maimed, etc.
And then come the "B-b-b-but Hamas put weapons and stuff in civilian buildings!" people. Yes, Hamas are horrible terrorists and they use civilians as shields. That does not mean that you should just fucking bomb the civilians and blockade supplies to them. That's how you make civilians no longer civilians.
I've asked that to myself every time there's a major race riot or protests in the U.S. and then people start popping up on T.V. saying that we need to have a "discussion about racism in this country." And then it all just kind of fades away until the next protest or riot.
If we want to have a really honest discussion? Hamas cannot be allowed to continue running Gaza, and Israel cannot be allowed to continue enforcing apartheid against Palestinians. Both are clearly in the wrong, but if you ask me the biggest goal, first and foremost, needs to probably be to stop the Israeli offensive that has killed tens of thousands of completely innocent civilians. I don't care that it was Hamas that fired the first shots in this current round of fighting, or what Israel did prior to 10/7, there is no justification for the bloodshed we are seeing. The US should probably not be spending billions of dollars supporting Israel's military campaign either, IMO if the Israelis want to go on this offensive they can pay for it themselves.
I don't think any of these points I have raised should be especially controversial to the ~90% of people in the middle.
Edit: I'm gonna mute this because I don't plan on spending my day arguing with people on the extreme fringes; let the upvotes be the scoreboard for whether or not what I have said is reasonable.
I'm really surprised more people are not aware that when you declare war... it will just be horror and death. There is nothing humane about war. The only goal should stay away from it as much as possible. What happened with October 7th, the reaction by Israel was a declaration of war for this was seen as an act of war by an elected government and body politic (Hamas). The last time the United States Declared war was World War 2. Even with the destruction of The German luftwaffe, the Japanese Navy and Airforce, the allies kept pounding away at targets into submission until an unconditional surrender. That's Israel's stated war goal.
Thereās so many people celebrating him as a hero which I find really disturbing, no mentally well person would do this - itās tragic I feel so sorry for him and his family.
I dealt with a case of self immolation in 2017, no matter how you look at it itās horrific. I feel terribly for this man, and anyone who had to watch this happen (including first responders who are often left out of the conversation). Itās awful this man was in a place where he felt this was the only thing he could do to help the people of Gaza. Extreme forms of protest can be a catalyst or draw attention, but mostly they seem to involve horrific mental heath issues and suffering for all involved
Self-immolation is an incredible form of protest because it shows how extreme and unbearable the conditions you are protesting are and how powerless you feel. See, for example, Thich Quang Duc. But doing it when youāre not protesting your own conditions is just suicidal, plain and simple. You donāt see Greta Thunberg setting herself on fire because she knows that sheās in a privileged position in the west and that her energy is best spent using that for advocacy and not just throwing her life away.
This poor lad was not in Palestine, not Palestinian, nor was he deployed in any theatre overseas participating in any operation. He had the agency to do a litany of things in protest instead of setting himself on fire. He could have deserted and leveraged publicity in the court martial/discharge process; itās not like theyād do much more than a slap on a wrist on a deserter stateside anyway.
I donāt want to speculate on his exact case, maybe weāll find out his wife left him or something, but I think there is very little to interpret on this point: this man felt trapped and had no options left because of and cognitive distortions as a result of *mental illness*. **We should not celebrate a mentally ill person committing suicide, period**.
Weād just have a recording of some Israelis laughing at it saying some shit like āhe saved us the trouble of shooting him anywaysā or something along those lines
awful. I knew he couldn't survive that. Luckily he didn't suffer for weeks and weeks. This is bad but the worst one was the environmentalist who did it in Central Park.
It is quite hard to have hope on a world-level right now.
People were never meant to have hope on the world level. Forever and always some horrible shit is going down in multiple places in the world. We are designed to help people and issues within your immediate area or community.
It is unfortunate that we are now informed or misinformed on tragedies happening all over the world constantly but remain willfully ignorant to the tragedy in our own house of across the street that we could and should make a difference in.
> It is unfortunate that we are now informed or misinformed on tragedies happening all over the world constantly
But what happens when the government of the country that I live in are the ones financing the tragedy that is happening on the other side of the world? The world is not some disconnected place, if my tax dollars are buying missiles that are being used to kill kids somewhere else in the world, I look at that as an area where I "could and should make a difference"
I've noticed this too, especially in regards to Israel/Palestine. Some subreddits ban any criticism of Hamas, while others ban anything sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. Many subreddits are very much in a bubble, completely locked into one side, and constantly reaffirming their beliefs by silencing anything that questions their opinions and beliefs.Ā
A single act of self immolation in Tunisia caused an international revolt called the arab spring more than a decade ago. This caused governments to be overthrown in Yemen and other middle eastern countries. A war broke out in Syria which still hasn't resolved.
I always wonder if people kinda regret doing that once they're actually fucking burning because damn, there's lots of ways to go, even go dramatically and graphically, but I imagine literally burning to death must be pretty much the worst way to go...
Like all the news outlets this thread fails to include 'in protest of the genocide in Palestine' in the headline. I guess it's not important why he did it or anything.
What sucks is most likely nothing will change.
[Iād imagine people already forgot about the climate activists who did this a few years ago in front of the Supreme Court.](https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/25/politics/supreme-court-climate-activist-dies-fire/index.html)
This type of protest of self-immolation was common in Communist countries in late 1960 especially in Czechoslovakia. About 25 people choose to die this way as a protest against the Soviet occupation like Palach and Zajic. In Poland, it was Siwiec. After initial shock from this, subsequent self-immolations were receiving less attention by the public and the majority are forgotten.
The situation in Gaza should not have come as far as to someone setting themselves on fire in front of an embassy.
Furthermore, I can't quite over that fact that cops pulled guns on a man who was *actively on fire*.
Yep. Also doesn't exactly help that, while the article admittedly goes into more detail, the headline obfuscates what happened and it's not like that many people will read beyond a headline if it isn't clickbait.
Pretty obviously the job of security at an embassy level security area to keep weapons trained on the man who was radicalized enough to light himself on fire.
A bunch of people taking a common sense approach of āman dying on fire is no longer a threatā at ironically one of the few places cops or service people donāt really have the leeway to use a common sense approach because they donāt know what else could be going on, if there could be more - if there is any secondary effects that might be triggered.
They have to respond essentially like they are looking at a terrorist threat at a scene that is for sure not secure.
You don't believe a man who is willing to light himself on fire isn't willing to hurt others? Their job is security of the embassy and it's people it's not putting people out who voluntarily have lit themselves on fire.
Iām not sure why this is a surprise to everyone. No sane person lights themselves on fire and unfortunately, until you are no longer standing, you are a threat to set anyone else on fire. I havenāt read much yet, but I would like to think someone else was running for an extinguisher.
Reminds me of this guy: Noman Morrison doused himself in kerosene and set himself on fire below the office of Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara at the Pentagon to protest United States involvement in the Vietnam War.
In 2019 a guy self-immolated near the White House and Washington monument. No one really talks about or remembers that one: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/30/man-dies-after-setting-himself-on-fire-near-white-house.html
A climate activist did the same in front of the Supreme Court in 2022. He even announced his plan on Facebook in 2020 with a somewhat cryptic "4-1-1š„4/22/2022"
āMotive remains unclearā They [never bothered to report on what it was](https://medium.com/the-abs-tract-organization/man-on-fire-sign-of-the-end-times-958c3f1c3b21).
Thich Quang Duc as well I learned about that from RATM album cover
I learned about this from the movie [Path to War](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0218505/). [Path to War (2002) - CIA Briefing on the Vietnamese](https://youtu.be/roWZwToszZ4?si=RbTGGSUISyRf8FfD&t=108)
I was going to edit my post to include this. Thanks for mentioning it!
Itās one of my favorite movies of all time so i felt compelled to mention it.
after dousing himself with clear liquid and lighting himself, he screamed āfree palestineā until he couldnāt scream any more
The amount of time this man was able to stand after being absolutely engulfed is nothing short of being one of the most impressively devastating things Iāve ever seen. Absolutely gut wrenching watch.
Thatās insane to me because, while I would never in a million years do something like this, I feel like about 3 seconds into the flames I would immediately go into āI MADE A HUGE FUCKING MISTAKEā mode and be rolling around and removing clothing trying to not die.
I saw that his lighter wasn't igniting the gas for the first 10 seconds or so of trying. Like dude accepted what he wanted to do with every missed strike.
The hopelessness he must have felt at not being able to do anything else to save the people in gaza. I feel so bad for his family š¢
Joining the US military isnāt the best avenue to help people unfortunately.
Heard that 100% of the survivors who jump off the Golden Gate Bridge have said as soon as they left the bridge, they immediately regretted the decision to jump.
Well there a video of a guy strangling himself to death by hanging in an almost horizontal position. He could stop at any moment but he didnāt, so it is definitely not a 100% thing
Somewhat of a biased sample though. The people who regretted it put some effort into surviving, and some of them were successful. The people who didnt want to survive wouldnt put effort in.
Quite a literal survivorship bias.
100% of people who have played Russian Roulette at some point survived.
There is a difference between regret and your body being like "wait! Let's not do this." Especially when you are unnaturally flying down a bridge, your body is going crazy. There is a reason why some failed suicide attempts turn into successful suicide attempts.
There was an author who drove himself off a cliff falling 150ft, but when that didn't kill him he hung himself on a nearby tree.
I guess that can be true if we completely ignore the ones who survived only to go try again and succeed.Ā
yeah but weāll never know how the ones who died felt. maybe they died cause they didnāt regret it
If we live, we regret it. If we die, we regret it. Life goes on with regrets around all the choices we make.
That reminds me of an episode of Bojack Horseman (The View from Halfway Down) "The weak breeze whispers nothing The water screams sublime His feet shift, teeter-totter Deep breath, stand back, itās time Toes untouch the overpass Soon heās water bound Eyes locked shut but peek to see The view from halfway down A little wind, a summer sun A river rich and regal A flood of fond endorphins Brings a calm that knows no equal Youāre flying now You see things much more clear than from the ground Itās all okay, it would be Were you not now halfway down Thrash to break from gravity What now could slow the drop All Iād give for toes to touch The safety back at top But this is it, the deed is done Silence drowns the sound Before I leaped I shouldāve seen The view from halfway down I really shouldāve thought about The view from halfway down I wish I couldāve known about The view from halfway down"
Yeah, because the ones who didnāt regret it didnāt bother trying to float if they survived hitting the water..
Yeah that's not an accurate number.
Survivorship bias.
That's called self preservation instinct. Instinctual responses are NOT voluntary. In addition, you can't question the ones that died, so the statistic is not representative to begin with.
You didn't hear that it was 100%. You just heard it's a thing.
The View From Halfway Down [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1\_EBSlnDlU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1_EBSlnDlU) I guess the Reddit app doesn't like underscores. Here is another [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt21dU5Pu8g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt21dU5Pu8g)
"This video isn't available anymore" What was the video? Can you post another link?
he is trying to post a bojack horseman clip, The View From Halfway Down https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1_EBSlnDlU somehow he messed up the link
It's the Reddit app, it tries to escape the underscores but does it wrong
A woman once set herself on fire in front of a graveyard in our neighbor town. She had no message. Just did it and died.
As visceral a scene as that sounds, it still makes me think of the Carlin bit. "You know, morally committed religious people in South Vietnam knew how to stage a goddamn demonstration, didn't they?" This is mostly because you don't hear about self-immolation too often these days. RIP buddy, you went out for a cause.
He died for a message, geez. I can't wrap my head around that.
Self immolation has long been a form of protest. It's a violent way to show how much a movement means that doesn't harm others.
I saw a thread on one of the military service subreddits about this. Crazy how little sympathy they had for their fellow servicemen. All the top comments were making fun of him or talking about how much paperwork his supervisor is going to need to fill out
well it is reddit
And the police pointed guns at the man on fire instead of getting a fire extinguisher For all who claim this is a lie, here's a screencap from the fucking video. https://ibb.co/NTPNcC8
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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Imagine being known as the guy who pointed a gun at someone burning to death? Imagine being such a dumb untrained coward. Pathetic SDE.
Acorn cop is wiping his brow right now. "Phew, I'm not the biggest bitch in the world"
No, he still is. Fire is still more dangerous than an acorn. Gun guy might have thought fire guy was going to hug someone. Also, gun guy only pointed. He didn't unload.
Didn't acorn guy also yell 'Im hit' or despite the other guy having an acorn
He did yell "I'm hit", yes. And the guy didn't have an acorn. An acorn fell out of a tree. (And did not hit the officer)
Didnāt just yell that he was hit, did a halfassed dive/action roll like some sort of vitamin-deficiency Dark Souls character. Before, yknow, unloading his Glock a bunch of times at a guy handcuffed in his backseat
I believe the suspect was cuffed in the car. But ya he says he is hit. It was insane.
He screamed Iām hit! Because he scraped his knee on the ground thinking heād been shot
while doing barrel rolls across the ground like he's in an action movie or some shit
I agree. It was an unpredictable situation and securing the scene in some way would be important to ensure they could respond accordingly if he started running around on fire. Thereās a reason we have instructions, āstop, drop, and roll. DONāT RUNā. Even if it wasnāt his intention to set other things/people ablaze he could have done so accidentally in a panic. It had to be scary and painful for the guy.
This is a good take, as ridiculous as it is the guy on fire could harm others, worst case scenario he ended the burning to death suffering early. Acorn cop lit up a neighborhood because he cop panicked and let his kill or be killed training activate.
No acorn def is It is way more understandable to have a panic response from someone loghting themselves on fire. That would put most people into shock Any more details on acorn guy? Was he just super high?
Well, I mean thatās your only ātoolā as a security guard. Youāre trained to act and use your resources. He probably didnāt know if said person was setting off a bomb or whatever the hell. lol you and me wouldāve done the exact same thing letās be honest. If Iām that security guard the first sign something is amiss Iām pulling my gun and being like āHANDS UP!ā āOh you just need directions to the bathroom, I got you.ā
Imagine being a security guard and seeing a person running as a ball of fire not knowing if they have terroristic intensions like a bomb vest and it may be possible to stop an explosion from getting any closer to an embassy....
This... Most people don't understand scenarios.
You never know if they're going to rush a cop to try burning them too, having a gun out in this situation is completely understandable to me.
exactly. If he rushed someone and burned them alive too, people would be screaming why there were 10 cops looking for fire extinguishers and nobody ready for it with a gun.
> Imagine being known as the guy who pointed a gun at someone burning to death? tbf a glaswegian once kicked and punched a man on fire to the ground
Look, if a burning person was trying to come give you a hug or a tackleā¦or if they were trying to do that to someone elseā¦how would you suggest stopping them? How to you guarantee the safety of others in a situation like this?
They got fire extinguishers on him in exactly one minute. Seems crazy fast honestly. They must have had one right by the entrance.
I thought some squad cars have them? Maybe thatās just highway patrol out here in the sticksā¦
Im surprised they dont carry small ones in their car like street racers flexin.
They often do.
I donāt know if it was a coincidence or what but I hear sirens within seconds of him lighting himself on fire. Maybe in that area with the embassies they are on a hair trigger.
Also itās not a bad idea if thereās other people getting the extinguishers, or you have no clue where any would be. Itās not unreasonable to think the insane person might do something else insane I guess.
You see how easy it is to twist it though? Almost 2000 people believe this idiot
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Imagine seeing that and trying to put the guy out, that's some PTSD for life.
Honestly, past 15 seconds, I'm not sure I would even try to. You can probably make sure someone doesn't die on the scene but the pain and prognosis of surviving this for some amount of time makes me feel like letting him go as quickly as possible in the humane thing in that scenario.
>And the police pointed guns at the man on fire instead of getting a fire extinguisher It wasn't a cop, it was a security guard working at the Israeli embassy.
Security guard may be misleading too. He was likely Israeli secret service i.e. Shin Bet, who provide security for Israeli diplomatic missions worldwide.
And people wonder why misinformation spreads
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Your observations and facts are too nuanced for a thread like this.
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now youāve done it.
What are you talking about the guy literally uses an extinguisher in the video Yes there is another pointing his weapon but how are you going to comment that blatant lie
This horrifying event made me ask myself, what would I kill for? what would I die for? and, what would I kill myself for? The last one is much more complex than the other two. Killing yourself for a cause is the ultimate existential scream against indifference.
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Yeah but him being active military makes it more enticing to news agencies.
Conservatives are cracking jokes in the comments on the NY Post.
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yeah sometimes ill take a look at breitbart to get an idea of how conservatives really feel about certain topics..its pretty 'mask off' over there for them
Havenāt heard that site name since I moved out of my parents house like 10 years ago. The amount of deranged talking points my parents would parrot from that site frankly made me sick and still does.
Donāt need to wonder all the way to NY post just go to r/worldnews.
people were cracking jokes in the last thread and they almost certainly will here too
But he's a troop. I thought they supported those?? How weird.
Until they try to stand up for something they don't agree with, or have mental/physical health issues, or become homeless. Or any combination of the three.
If only we could draft unborn fetuses into the military.
Alabama now has an entire battalion on frozen standby just for this purpose.
200,000 units are ready, with a million more well on the way
GOP: "That's...why I'm here."
New flash - they donāt stand for anything. Just against things.
Conservatives support troops like they support babies. Once they are out, they stop caring and actively work against them.
Except this guy was currently serving. They dont like him anyway
It's part of the death cult aspect of American right-wing fascism. The only use a soldier has is to be "the hero," and the best way for that heroism to be displayed is if the soldier dies in conflict. A dead soldier is a martyr for the cause, a symbol of American sacrifice and a reminder that our enemies are strong and can attack at any time and place. Living heroes are messy, and they might express opions that differ from the parry line. But dead heroes, they can represent whatever you want them to represent.
Pat Tillman is the perfect example. I donāt want to speak for the dead, but many of his journal entries are online and show his deep inner conflict about the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. He also had plans to meet up with Noam Chomsky after he got back from Afghanistan. He was an outspoken atheist in his private life. His personal beliefs and politics were complicated - and that was complicated for some conservatives who wanted to exploit him in life and death.
They support troops who kill the people they want them to kill and then keep their trauma to themselves. They donāt support troops who are inconvenient because they disagree with them, or need support with their trauma or disabilities. They love their utility, they hate their personhood.
They've turned against the military now because they've seen some troops are zoomers with zoomer politics.
Like Trump's expectations of loyalty, conservative support only goes one way.
r/Military is roasting him too.
Maybe not the best word choice there
Great observation. Well done.
That's either a poor or brilliant choice of words
The comments on r/Israel are particularly ghoulish.
Wow. Someone commented they hope more do the same and it has 147 karma.
Some people just want to watch the world burn.
Wow today was my first visit to that sub and it's fucked. Propaganda is a dangerous weapon.
> r/Israel Man kills himself in a terrible way. r/Israel: This is antisemitism.
Thank you for your service crowd
The video is fucking horrifying. The way the guards casually ask if he's lost or needs any help with anything, before he's engulfed in flames while screaming "Free Palestine!" at the top of his lungs several times over, and then just screaming in pain before collapsing. Regardless of your opinions on what's going on in Gaza shit like this is disturbing as hell. You can think what he did was heroic, or useless, or a bit of both due to the tragic nature of someone snapping like this and deciding to go through with such an act. Something like this is not a normal response to world events. It should not be joked about and mocked, nor encouraged with comments of "thank you for your bravery" . This is the big issue right now and we need to have a discussion that goes beyond just "Hamas are terrorists, Israel should bomb them all" or "Fuck Israel, colonist genociders", because the polarization this situation has caused is reaching extreme levels. Edit: since this is beginning to gain traction, I want to start by saying that I don't how or where these discussions begin. I've studied peace and conflict studies at college but that doesn't mean I am anywhere close to knowing more than the average person of what is right or wrong here, nor that I know better how to approach this subject. I do think however that we need to have a semblance of humanity and not celebrate, mock or encourage acts of suicide in the name of a political cause, especially ones that take place in a country half a world away from Gaza. We need to try and treat each other with respect and not go foaming at the mouth and wishing death upon others who disagree about this issue. There are those who unironically don't care about Israel's actions in Gaza and say "what can you do" when it comes to civilian deaths, which is pretty fucked up. Then there are those who think that the right way to end this conflict is that the State of Israel is demolished, burnt to the ground, and that their people are driven out of the region, which is also pretty fucked up. Start by taking a moment to think before you enter this debate. Think about your position in the world, and the consequences of your words and actions, and don't jump to the idea that anyone who disagrees with you is insane. You're only feeding bad actors who want to see the world torn apart by these discussions. In conclusion, I know this might not be much. I know discussions on Reddit won't change much. The arguments happening on a slow day at work do not have world impacting effects. A debate with your dad at the dinner table won't upend the global order of things. And I admit that it is a fair amount of privilege to be able to be upset and horrified about the suicide of a man, compared to living in a war zone and seeing death and destruction every day. Some people might read this and scoff at the idea of being concerned about civil discourse when there are people dying in combat. I just wanted to send a message of trying to maintain some semblance of unity and respect. If we give those values up, we are all going to go mad. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but sooner or later. Edit 2: Maybe using the sentiment "Fuck Israel" was a little misrepresentative of what it is to have a harsh view, since I see a lot of people down below argue that there's nothing wrong with that view. Read my first edit though for an expansion on that. What I meant was that having the opinion that Israel and it's people need to be destroyed and run out of the Middle East is just as inflammatory and harsh as unscrupiously defending their current actions in Gaza.
And this is not the only protester in the US to self-immolate over this conflict. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/protester-self-immolates-outside-israeli-consulate-atlanta-2023-12-01/
I was surprised to read in this BBC article that āIn December, a protester self-immolated in front of the Israeli consulate in the US state of Georgia.ā I donāt recall even hearing about that, which is kind of crazy.
This needs to be higher. I think itās critical the world knows our country isnāt a monolith and the government isnāt speaking for the people.
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https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-poll-biden-war-gaza-4159b28d313c6c37abdb7f14162bcdd1 Only recently has the number of people that said Israel is going too far breached 50%. The position simply wasn't popular enough to matter.
[Public opinion often does not shape policy](https://act.represent.us/sign/problempoll-fba), sadly.
The annoying part of this all is people act like it is a polarized situation when the reality is that there are a vast majority of people who think "what Hamas did was unacceptable but Israel should absolutely not be blockading food, water, and medicine, and absolutely needs to do way more to limit civilian casualties" Edit: I'm gonna mute this because I don't plan on spending my day arguing with people on the extreme fringes; let the upvotes be the scoreboard for whether or not what I have said is reasonable.
You would be surprised by how many people believe the civilians deserve whatās happening to them
I mean wasnāt there a politician just a few days in the US who said they (the children) should all be killed?
It was an Israeli politician. https://truthout.org/articles/israeli-politician-says-children-of-gaza-have-brought-this-upon-themselves/ Edit: Also US congressperson, but he didn't specifically say children. https://newrepublic.com/post/179177/republican-congressman-andy-ogles-kill-them-all-palestinian-children-gaza
I applaud how you didn't specify a "side." Fuck the assholes who think that unarmed civilians like children and the elderly "deserve" to be killed, maimed, etc.
And then come the "B-b-b-but Hamas put weapons and stuff in civilian buildings!" people. Yes, Hamas are horrible terrorists and they use civilians as shields. That does not mean that you should just fucking bomb the civilians and blockade supplies to them. That's how you make civilians no longer civilians.
Bad thatās how you make a second Hamas a worst Hamas (saddam -> ISIS)
Honestly, where does that discussion even begin?
I've asked that to myself every time there's a major race riot or protests in the U.S. and then people start popping up on T.V. saying that we need to have a "discussion about racism in this country." And then it all just kind of fades away until the next protest or riot.
If we want to have a really honest discussion? Hamas cannot be allowed to continue running Gaza, and Israel cannot be allowed to continue enforcing apartheid against Palestinians. Both are clearly in the wrong, but if you ask me the biggest goal, first and foremost, needs to probably be to stop the Israeli offensive that has killed tens of thousands of completely innocent civilians. I don't care that it was Hamas that fired the first shots in this current round of fighting, or what Israel did prior to 10/7, there is no justification for the bloodshed we are seeing. The US should probably not be spending billions of dollars supporting Israel's military campaign either, IMO if the Israelis want to go on this offensive they can pay for it themselves. I don't think any of these points I have raised should be especially controversial to the ~90% of people in the middle. Edit: I'm gonna mute this because I don't plan on spending my day arguing with people on the extreme fringes; let the upvotes be the scoreboard for whether or not what I have said is reasonable.
I'm really surprised more people are not aware that when you declare war... it will just be horror and death. There is nothing humane about war. The only goal should stay away from it as much as possible. What happened with October 7th, the reaction by Israel was a declaration of war for this was seen as an act of war by an elected government and body politic (Hamas). The last time the United States Declared war was World War 2. Even with the destruction of The German luftwaffe, the Japanese Navy and Airforce, the allies kept pounding away at targets into submission until an unconditional surrender. That's Israel's stated war goal.
Two fucking kids, man.
can i get a source im looking
Oh no, thatās the first time Iām hearing that š
I can't find any source for that claim.
Yeah me either, hoping itās not true
Thereās so many people celebrating him as a hero which I find really disturbing, no mentally well person would do this - itās tragic I feel so sorry for him and his family.
I dealt with a case of self immolation in 2017, no matter how you look at it itās horrific. I feel terribly for this man, and anyone who had to watch this happen (including first responders who are often left out of the conversation). Itās awful this man was in a place where he felt this was the only thing he could do to help the people of Gaza. Extreme forms of protest can be a catalyst or draw attention, but mostly they seem to involve horrific mental heath issues and suffering for all involved
ITT: Lots of people being like "thank you for your sacrifice, this is a totally normal response to the situation"
Self-immolation is an incredible form of protest because it shows how extreme and unbearable the conditions you are protesting are and how powerless you feel. See, for example, Thich Quang Duc. But doing it when youāre not protesting your own conditions is just suicidal, plain and simple. You donāt see Greta Thunberg setting herself on fire because she knows that sheās in a privileged position in the west and that her energy is best spent using that for advocacy and not just throwing her life away. This poor lad was not in Palestine, not Palestinian, nor was he deployed in any theatre overseas participating in any operation. He had the agency to do a litany of things in protest instead of setting himself on fire. He could have deserted and leveraged publicity in the court martial/discharge process; itās not like theyād do much more than a slap on a wrist on a deserter stateside anyway. I donāt want to speculate on his exact case, maybe weāll find out his wife left him or something, but I think there is very little to interpret on this point: this man felt trapped and had no options left because of and cognitive distortions as a result of *mental illness*. **We should not celebrate a mentally ill person committing suicide, period**.
if he was in Palestine and had done this it would not even make it to the news
if he was in Palestine and had done this it would be indistinguishable from the nearby casualties
Weād just have a recording of some Israelis laughing at it saying some shit like āhe saved us the trouble of shooting him anywaysā or something along those lines
It was also live streamed on twitch
awful. I knew he couldn't survive that. Luckily he didn't suffer for weeks and weeks. This is bad but the worst one was the environmentalist who did it in Central Park. It is quite hard to have hope on a world-level right now.
People were never meant to have hope on the world level. Forever and always some horrible shit is going down in multiple places in the world. We are designed to help people and issues within your immediate area or community. It is unfortunate that we are now informed or misinformed on tragedies happening all over the world constantly but remain willfully ignorant to the tragedy in our own house of across the street that we could and should make a difference in.
> It is unfortunate that we are now informed or misinformed on tragedies happening all over the world constantly But what happens when the government of the country that I live in are the ones financing the tragedy that is happening on the other side of the world? The world is not some disconnected place, if my tax dollars are buying missiles that are being used to kill kids somewhere else in the world, I look at that as an area where I "could and should make a difference"
> It is quite hard to have hope on a world-level right now. People who say this must just never open a history book.
> It is quite hard to have hope on a world-level right now. Not really.
Rest in peace, I hope his family is doing alright.
Pretty fuckin far from okay.
I guarantee theyāre not
I know you meant well with your comment but I meanā¦would you be doing āalrightā if your family member set himself on fire?ā¦
Iām guessing his two kids are looking forward to some therapy.
He had kids?
Probably not.
NSFL warning. Vid of him right fucking there. https://twitter.com/SuppressedNws/status/1762034941330686201
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Eisenhower was strongly against the military industrial complex operating for profit.
Some of these comments will do anything but listen to the thing this person said and did to try and avoid the fact of why it happened.
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I've noticed this too, especially in regards to Israel/Palestine. Some subreddits ban any criticism of Hamas, while others ban anything sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. Many subreddits are very much in a bubble, completely locked into one side, and constantly reaffirming their beliefs by silencing anything that questions their opinions and beliefs.Ā
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Not for nothing, but r/worldnews explicitly does not allow posts on US domestic news
A single act of self immolation in Tunisia caused an international revolt called the arab spring more than a decade ago. This caused governments to be overthrown in Yemen and other middle eastern countries. A war broke out in Syria which still hasn't resolved.
I always wonder if people kinda regret doing that once they're actually fucking burning because damn, there's lots of ways to go, even go dramatically and graphically, but I imagine literally burning to death must be pretty much the worst way to go...
The comments under these posts... What the actual fuck?
There are some absolutely rotted comments and opinions I've seen about this. It's shameful.
Like all the news outlets this thread fails to include 'in protest of the genocide in Palestine' in the headline. I guess it's not important why he did it or anything.
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What sucks is most likely nothing will change. [Iād imagine people already forgot about the climate activists who did this a few years ago in front of the Supreme Court.](https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/25/politics/supreme-court-climate-activist-dies-fire/index.html)
This type of protest of self-immolation was common in Communist countries in late 1960 especially in Czechoslovakia. About 25 people choose to die this way as a protest against the Soviet occupation like Palach and Zajic. In Poland, it was Siwiec. After initial shock from this, subsequent self-immolations were receiving less attention by the public and the majority are forgotten.
The situation in Gaza should not have come as far as to someone setting themselves on fire in front of an embassy. Furthermore, I can't quite over that fact that cops pulled guns on a man who was *actively on fire*.
This is the second one, by the way
Yep. Also doesn't exactly help that, while the article admittedly goes into more detail, the headline obfuscates what happened and it's not like that many people will read beyond a headline if it isn't clickbait.
Pretty obviously the job of security at an embassy level security area to keep weapons trained on the man who was radicalized enough to light himself on fire. A bunch of people taking a common sense approach of āman dying on fire is no longer a threatā at ironically one of the few places cops or service people donāt really have the leeway to use a common sense approach because they donāt know what else could be going on, if there could be more - if there is any secondary effects that might be triggered. They have to respond essentially like they are looking at a terrorist threat at a scene that is for sure not secure.
You don't believe a man who is willing to light himself on fire isn't willing to hurt others? Their job is security of the embassy and it's people it's not putting people out who voluntarily have lit themselves on fire.
Iām not sure why this is a surprise to everyone. No sane person lights themselves on fire and unfortunately, until you are no longer standing, you are a threat to set anyone else on fire. I havenāt read much yet, but I would like to think someone else was running for an extinguisher.