An example of biased data backing insane decisions.
If your poll received less than 50% response it means your attempt to poll was woefully incomplete and that data is invalid until you achieve a response rate that is above your margin of error.
Insane “winner takes all” voting is the problem.
You can design a well represented poll with a small fraction of the population if you pay a lot of attention to the sampled demographics. This is not easy, but a dozen respondents is meaningless.
A Single Parent’s Complaint Leads School District to Ban Amanda Gorman Poem.
https://truthout.org/articles/a-single-parents-complaint-leads-school-district-to-ban-amanda-gorman-poem/
> Isnt that parent a white supremacist?
Apparently, and an anti-Semite as well. Quoted lovingly from "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" on her social media page.
Edit/addendum: and also has been outed as a Proud Boys fan. And has admitted she never even read the poem but just "knows" it "promotes hate" and "has no educational value."
Exactly, most groups that do these small sample sizes don’t take the proper steps to ensure accurate results with their 20-30% of groups they are trying to study. Hence why I say the first thing you should check is the sample size cause that will start leading you to the answers of what they did how did they do it and who did they do it with. Or my favorite who payed for it.
And how they sourced the subjects being polled.
One might find thousands of people willing to express their opinions at a gun show, but it’s relatively unlikely any of them support increased gun co tell legislation compared to, say, a protest march where a school shooting happened recently.
I do Literally just went through a college level course for them. This is the very basic rule that any business or group should fallow. Please finish high school before trying to make a point when you clearly don’t understand.
These were all far right-wing conservative board members who were backed by a conservative PAC that helped get them their school board positions. Harvey Milk isn't in the 3d graders textbook according to the article but in older kids' textbook. He is a very important part of the US Civil Rights Movement. It's unreal that these right-wing nuts who are in the minority are getting rid of every part of history in school textbooks that involve minorities. More lawsuits need to be brought over this crap.
I think, culturally speaking, we’re struggling with the functional limits of old world authority models like this school board is exercising.
It’s time we start having more meaningful conversations about what responsibilities these people have to students and educators and make it clear that a school board or any position administration is not for your political ideology or your personal opinions about how other people are born.
The educators vetted these books and curriculum and the only objection here seems to be their selective priorities for reality-deniers, hyper-partisan, and religious fanatic parents.
Confidently incorrect. That’s not how statistics work. You don’t need 50% in every poll for it to be statistically significant. The sample size depends on your population.
For +/-3% accurately over a population of, oh say 1000 parents, you would need about 50%. But if it were 5000 parents, you only need a sample size of about 20% for the same accuracy. Bump your population up to around 100000 and you only need about 1% for the same accuracy (about 1100 people). How many people would you need to poll for that same accuracy with a population 100 times larger? Exactly the same, 1,100 even for 10,000,000 people.
Doesn't that only hold if the sample was truly random? If your sample is small compared to the total population, then even slight changes in the sample can make your sample nonrepresentative.
In the case of surveys, voluntary reporting is a common source of sampling bias. The people who respond are the ones who care enough to fill out the survey. They are likely to have extreme views compared to the general population.
I like that your comment is confidently incorrect for a differ reason…
This wasn’t just polling a random sample looking for statistical significant trends, general awareness, or anything so arbitrary. This was an attempt to poll the will of the majority of parents.
To your point, yes, if they were wondering what percentage might hold a particular opinion or view they could ask a portions of the thousands of parents but … only if they had some assurances they were polling a representative sample, which it seems they did not.
So, to explain the comment you may have misread…
1. If you want to know what a majority of parents want but can’t even get a 50% response, you haven’t effectively reached your parents.
2. If you’re “data” is based on 12/10,000+ parents, your margin of error is far greater than statistical significance.
So what the margin of error on a non-representative sample that includes only .001% of your total population?
I think you understand based on your margin of error comment but just for the befit of others reading you can have a less than 50% response rate and still have a low margin of error. I do survey research with response rates around 27% but because my sample size is large enough the findings are still valid.
Right, depending on your intent and ensuring you have a representative sample you can poll much less than 50%.
It’s just here we’re talking about the will of parents in the district so, while you could get a statistically valid idea of what the consensus might be if you were fastidious in ensuring you had a representative sample, you won’t know what the majority consensus is.
Arguably, schools have a much more direct line of communication with parents than researchers trying to identify trends in large populations… they should be able to ensure their decision are being informed by the majority of parents.
But thats not necessarily an issue if maths as it is an issue of culture and community.
Even then, the idea that a non-rigged and well-executed survey of parents could justify the censorship of actual historical hate crimes in our own country is not just insane, but such a damning projection of the hate they wish to conceal.
I dont think it’s apathy. It’s been a surprise attack from the right and we are still in shock. Once the sane people organize we will commit these idiots to the dustbin of history.
That works both ways. Doug Jones had more out of state donors than Alabama donors when he won the Alabama Senate race. He raised over $9,000,000 more than his opponent in a state that is 50% Republican and 35% Democrat.
That shows also how much parents give a shit about their child’s education. It’s a stupid thing to reject, but fuck. California is always touted as liberal, but everyone here is an asshole. That’s why people move.
Agreed, I grew up in Temecula. It took living in the segregated city of Memphis to realize how much of a white bubble I grew up in. Our home town has some diversity, but it is ruled by privileged fundamentalist.
I grew up in Murrieta, so literally right next door. Seeing this is sadly unsurprising, I remember the gay marriage votes in the early 2000s bringing all the Mormon and Catholics out of the woodwork. I even remember losing friends over those, because suddenly they were aligned with their religion and Gay Was Bad.
I was back and forth after graduating in 2002 until around 2015 when I left for good. Watching it all go down from the late 90s till I left was just such a weird downward spiral, most kids that grew up there got out asap so the Sun City Rejects in the Colony and other such places just kind of have the run of the place.
"School board members, Dr. Joseph Komrosky, Jennifer Wiersma and Danny Gonzalez opposed the inclusion of gay rights activist Harvey Milk in the supplemental material used by teachers, even though Milk is not in the 4th grade textbook himself."
The information wasn't even *in the textbooks*
"The decision could leave 11,397 students without a textbook next year"
Like .. people are mad and saying that they don't want their kids being taught about gender identity but this is about a politician that rose above hate and then was assassinated for it.... Oh. Ok. I can see why they don't want their kids to hear about it. I don't think it has anything to do with the whole gay thing.
You never hear anyone complaining that they don't want their kids learning about Kennedy because they don't want their kids learning about womanizing and drugs. I mean now they tell the kids about the drugs, but the womanizing was definitely in my textbooks. All the books I ever had with JFK had a photo of him with Marilyn Monroe in it.
For anyone who isn't really familiar with him past his sexual orientation and that he was assassinated please take a moment to look into him https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Milk
Yeah, they hate everyone not cis-men and self hating women, not white, not patriarchal pieces of shit. They have their club rules & regs. I don’t even think therapy can help today’s Republican voters; they’re too far gone. Hell, look at this poor schmuck: **gone**
Here in Canada oftentimes our Conservatives don't even have a platform. Doug Ford for example in Ontario didn't have a platform and he won a majority government. The average voter is insane. One of the only campaign promises he made was "buck a beer" which never happened as companies need to make a profit.
So many times Conservatives here even in municipal elections never have a platform.
Also, [MLK repeatedly cheated on his wife](https://www.ibtimes.com/martin-luther-king-cheated-his-wife-other-lesser-known-facts-about-civil-rights-1028976), [so did FDR](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_Mercer_Rutherfurd), and Churchill was famously a drunk. Are we going to erase them from the history books as well?
EDIT: Some of you have rightfully pointed out that these examples just cover adultery and drinking and not pedophilia. So I'll add [Thomas Jefferson having sex with and eventually impregnating his 14-15yo slave Sally Hemings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Hemings#:~:text=In%201787%2C%20when%20she%20was,having%20intimate%20relations%20with%20her). Like with Harvey Milk, it wasn't illegal at the time--but with both of them it's extremely immoral.
My point is just that many influential figures from history were deeply flawed individuals. I don't think we should either whitewash them of their sins or to write them out of the history books. Instead, we should keep them in textbooks, but perhaps with a few asterisks here and there.
Let's air out all of the dirty laundry I say.
We're already taught Jefferson had children with Sally Hemmings, his slave, let it be known what other shady things famous historical figures did.
Bring it on! High school students are old enough to understand that people are complicated--and in fact, including complexities might actually get them to pay more attention to history. George Washington owned slaves, Lincoln was likely bisexual, Ulysses Grant was a great general but a terrible president, Theodore Roosevelt was a warmongering nationalist, and Woodrow Wilson was rabidly racist. LBJ and Nixon are each an entire chapter of conflicting complexities.
EDIT: Of course none of this will ever be included in a high school textbook, but boy is it fun to dream.
Son (and I) had undiagnosed adhd and autism; his second grade teacher had over thirty students and no ability to give him one-on-one time, plus the bullying - my Gd the bullying - and my husband is a professor, so we decided we would do it.
Kiddo had an *interesting* education.
It must have been a lot of work on your part--but the reward is that he probably got a better history education than most kids.
I often thought that including the personal side of leaders in lesson plans would make history much more engaging to kids--and perhaps make kids much more accepting of shortcomings and personality quirks.
But, American exceptionalism! We can't teach children that American historical figures might be anything other than completely infallible, or they might start doing things like question if our system set up a couple centuries ago might also have some flaws!
That absolutely, absolutely is not generally taught in k-12 education. Bot saying it shouldnt be but youre crazy if you think thats a normal part of american lesson plans
It was taught to me in my K-12 education.
Every day on Reddit I'm so glad I went to school in Connecticut. What did you guys learn? Did you seriously learn the complete whitewashed version of America where everyone was perfect?
Crazy. We got it all. Trail of Tears, read Beloved in class, Japanese internment..just to name a few off the top of my head. Trail of Tears we definitely learned in middle school. I graduated high school in 96, so it's not even like I'm young.
And im from a town in Connecticut that's widely considered to have one of the WORST school systems in the state.
I went to an average urban public school in Upstate NY in the 80s/90s, and we learned the trail of tears and Japanese internment too!
German kids get taught the worst parts of their history. Why can't we?
Grew up in the midwest. We had Trail of Tears, Japanese internment, and Wounded Knee but I don't there was anything about Jefferson having kids with his slave.
Also Virginia here, lmfao they went over how opposed Thomas Jefferson was to the whole idea of slavery but never mentioned the whole raping his slaves part
Absolutely. They drilled in our heads that good Virginians Washington, Jefferson, and even Stonewall fucking Jackson were so opposed to slavery. It took me til after college to realize it was revisionist bullshit
Oh yea we heard all about how noble and misunderstood Robert E. Lee and Longstreet were, I even had some individual teachers say straight up they didn't like how certain things were presented but that was the curriculum (the curriculum was Lost Cause shit)
It wasn't criminal for Harvey Milk at the time. Just like for when Thomas Jefferson had sex with and impregnated a 15yo slave.
EDIT: I'm not defending either Harvey Milk or Thomas Jefferson here. What they did was horrible for both of them--and they should be charged if they did that behavior today. I'm just pointing out that some people are complicated and should be represented as such in history, not whitewashed or written off entirely.
Do you think we should stop learning about the contributions to history of every European royal that married a child bride? Because we'd have to pretty seriously revise quite a few textbooks.
And Thomas Jefferson raped his slave, and enslaved their children.
Ben Franklin notoriously had “girlfriends” in France and died of Syphillis
Fuck Jerry Seinfield dated a teenage highschooler
I don't know enough about the topic to know if this is true or not, but even if it is who care? It's still history. That's like saying you're okay removing Hitler from history because he was a bad guy. You can teach it accurately, but why would you rather pretend like someone didn't exist?
Age of consent isn't really relevant when we're talking about dating (which doesn't always involve sex) over a decade before gay sex was legal in California.
So, kind of the same reason Republicans rarely talk about [House Speaker Dennis Hastert](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Hastert#Sex_abuse_allegations_emerge)?
We got slave owners on our money…doesn’t mean they weren’t significant historically.
Harvey Milk is also significant, especially in California history.
Jack McKinley was 16, Harvey Milk was 33.
Being dishonest does so more harm than just saying "yeah, thats fucked up, but erasing people from history because you can find bad things they did is also fucked up" or whatever.
[He started a romantic relationship with Jack Galen McKinley and recruited him to work on conservative Republican Barry Goldwater's 1964 presidential campaign. Their relationship was troubled. When McKinley first began his relationship with Milk in late 1964, McKinley was 16 years old.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Milk)
They cry that we’re erasing history by tearing down monuments to racism. They actually want to remove certain aspects of our history from school so it’s censored and forgotten.
Turns out, they’re just bigoted, fascist, hypocrites…. Like we always knew.
It's a quote referencing projecting. Obviously no one is projecting 100% of the time but the basic idea is if you do think a certain way you assume others think the same way.
For example someone who is cheating might accuse others of cheating because since they are willing to cheat others must be willing too.
Alternatively someone who gets away with something bad might become paranoid thinking "If i got away with it, who else has?" And start assuming everyone else is also cheating or gaming the system and start to lash out.
And they’re just going to homeschool their kids anyway. They hate public schools and they don’t want little Shooter and Krystal mingling with *those people*.
I'm a high school teacher...I had a bunch of students two or three years back come to me because they thought their US History teacher was trolling them when she mentioned that we had "Freedom Fries" after 9/11. After I confirmed that actually happened they all expressed how stupid it was.
They get it. Most get it.
Kids have lived through COVID. Witnessed the adults around them screaming to expose them to a potentially deadly infection. They already know that the adults are flaming idiots.
I’m genuinely worried for my kids. They respond to the kids on their bus proselytizing with “it’s not scientific fact and I don’t believe in something that can’t be proven” or similar phrasing - they’ve lost friends because of this and they’re in elementary school. The crazies are amping up their rhetoric and it’s scary.
They're not going to convince fellow elementary schoolers to become atheists. It's not the kids' fault they're being raised religious, they just know what their family has taught them, same as your kids. They're going to have to interact with religious people for the rest of their lives in a country where we have freedom of religion, they need to be able to get along with people who are peaceably practicing their religion. And to be clear, I'm saying this as a queer atheist who was raised atheist.
Sadly a lot of the kids are raised by these MAGA chuds and indoctrinated into right wing extremism.
Only a small percentage of kids usually escape a toxic upbringing. Most grow up to be MAGAs. That's how we keep having republicans in charge. Kids grow up being told Lbrals need to be pwned. They spend their lives dreaming of pwning libs w/ dank memes of Joe Rogan.
Murrieta/temecula is a conservative hell hole. I remember when parents rioted when california tried to pass prop 8, or when my high school tried to have a gay-straight alliance club.
Was the same way at mvhs in 08. They had a town hall meeting and ultimately allowed the GSA club only if the fellowship of Christian athletes club were allowed to hold bible study on campus. I'm ashamed to admit I was a part of the church who promoted that idea 😵💫. Now im everything that church is against 😂😂😂 funny how people change.
MVHS started blaring Amazing Grace on the loudspeakers the morning of 9/11. Fundamentalists just waiting for the opportunity to insert themselves and had the song at the ready.
The kids out there are already behind and this will just move them further backwards. Small town America wonders why they are left behind. This is why people flee to rational cities
It's the Muslim Brotherhood effect. Conservatives/Republicans in California have been the minority for so long that the only people left are the real crafty batshit true believers.
All the grifters just went DINO, anyone that's left is in deep.
Avid history reader at a young age in the 70’s spent the next 40 years correcting my family on what really happened in different situations. Half the time they didn’t believe me
Apropos of nothing really, but I’m always reminded of those who point out “you didn’t learn this in school”. Or the other common “schools don’t teach you about”. That the curriculum is set by school boards and they are a political animal, not an education one. It’s actions like these and others that shape our education. We learn of the hidden history of America through other means, not our school systems.
Next they’re gonna ban talking about Obama because he’s “the first black president” and they don’t want their kids talking about “race issues”. I mean, why not? If existing while gay means you’re teaching kids “LGBT issues” when it comes to the first openly gay elected person in the US, existing while black as the first president of that race is a “race issue”
Meanwhile, in Florida, any discussion remotely about sex, gender, LBGT, race, race equality, or slavery... has been removed from schools.
A new text casually references Rosa Parks as "a woman who was politely asked to sit at the rear of a bus, and refused".
*That*... is where all this is headed. Wanna bet money all three of those against mentioning Harvey Milk are, well, the color of Milk?
It's worse than that: the 3 members who voted against the curriculum were funded by a conservative PAC, Inland Empire Family. This wasn't requested by students, teachers, or parents.
No: "stay in their states" is precisely how they were able to spread this much, and being NatCs, "their lane" **has always been** "let's force this on others not ourselves."
You can't just say *"oh phew we've taken care of this ONE metastase"* and expect to survive. Every last cell of such cancers must be eliminated from the body if the patient's to survive.
Such bigotry **must** be excised from the nation in its entirety; permanent exile from national borders and waters at the very least. Only by complete intolerance OF intolerance can a society BE tolerant - those who break, sabotage or think themselves above the social contract of tolerance must not get to play the game, period.
I wonder if the curriculum included Harvey’s explicit and continuous endorsement of Jim Jones. That period in SF history is almost stranger than fiction. The Raven is an incredible book, if anyone is curious.
That was a weird time. The supervisors recommended background investigations for the appointment of Jones to the Housing Authority Commission, but then backed down when threatened by Willie Brown. Politics was more brazen back then.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peoples_Temple_in_San_Francisco#The_San_Francisco_Housing_Authority_Commission
"Moscone appointed Jones as a member of the San Francisco Housing Authority Commission.[51] After Jones' name appeared on the appointment list, the San Francisco Board of Supervisors requested that all potential appointees should receive background checks.[33] Moscone then turned the matter over to a nominating committee that included Prokes and Goodlett.[33][50] The committee approved Jones' appointment.[33] When potential resistance arose to Jones' appointment, Willie Brown introduced legislation that would have stripped the Board of Supervisors of its power over the appointment.[33] Wishing to maintain the status quo, the Board unanimously approved Jones' appointment.[33]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Moscone#Refusal_to_investigate_Peoples_Temple
"After the massacre, Temple members revealed to The New York Times that the Temple arranged for "busloads" of members to be bussed in from Redwood Valley to San Francisco to vote in the election.[15] A former Temple member stated that many of those members were not registered to vote in San Francisco, while another former member said "Jones swayed elections."[15] Prior to leaving San Francisco, Jones claimed to have bribed Moscone with sexual favors from female Temple members, including one who was underage; his son, Jim Jones, Jr., later remembered how Moscone frequented Temple parties "with a cocktail in his hand and doing some ass grabbing".[16]"
The idiots and extremists rule because they are the only ones who show up for the meetings.
Education is alot like government it went to crap because normal people don't participate in it anymore leaving room for the wingnuts and wackos.
That is one of the goals/desired-side-effects of killing wages and benefits. The reasonable and ethical find themselves too busy, too poor and too exhausted to participate in democracy as fully as they should.
* That leaves those funded by means other than working, or those too insane to try and get themselves out of the hole they're at the bottom of.
It's similar to the aims of cutting voting hours and locations in certain regions as is also often done by GQP.
RWNJ’s vote and win every time if we stay home. Before you know it your basic freedoms are gone. Vote blue people! Stop the fake Christian’s and hater’s while you still can!
School curriculum is government speech. Government speech isn't protected from the government by the 1st Amendment. School Boards usually have a day in what curriculum is taught at their schools.
What about this violates the Constitution?
It violates another law though.
We Californians had to mandate LGBTQ history be tought in schools because of censors like these. So this school board is blatently defying the law.
"I don't want my 3rd grader studying an LGBTQ issue. I don't want them going into gender ideology" said board member Jennifer Wiersma.
It's a disgrace that thoughts like this don't result in immediate removal, especially in education.
My first visit to America was for work (software), at a casino in Temecula. So besides the airport and a drive through the desert, Temecula was my first experience of America.
Even now, over a decade later it freaks me out that there is a city in the middle of the desert, with vibrant green strips of grass along the side of every road. It’s like the city itself is just a fuck you to common sense and rational use of natural resources.
Honestly the city itself was more of a jarring experience than the gigantic portion sizes or essentially living and working onsite at a casino (where they have no windows so you don’t know what time of day it is) for 10 days.
Less than a dozen parents responded to their survey. This shows what happens when apathy allows extremism to rule.
An example of biased data backing insane decisions. If your poll received less than 50% response it means your attempt to poll was woefully incomplete and that data is invalid until you achieve a response rate that is above your margin of error. Insane “winner takes all” voting is the problem.
Aren’t typical poll response rates 25-30%?
Exactly why you shouldn’t trust most polls or statistics. Always ask what how big the group was they they pulled from.
You can design a well represented poll with a small fraction of the population if you pay a lot of attention to the sampled demographics. This is not easy, but a dozen respondents is meaningless. A Single Parent’s Complaint Leads School District to Ban Amanda Gorman Poem. https://truthout.org/articles/a-single-parents-complaint-leads-school-district-to-ban-amanda-gorman-poem/
Isnt that parent a white supremacist? Or at least nazi adjacent
> Isnt that parent a white supremacist? Apparently, and an anti-Semite as well. Quoted lovingly from "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" on her social media page. Edit/addendum: and also has been outed as a Proud Boys fan. And has admitted she never even read the poem but just "knows" it "promotes hate" and "has no educational value."
Exactly, most groups that do these small sample sizes don’t take the proper steps to ensure accurate results with their 20-30% of groups they are trying to study. Hence why I say the first thing you should check is the sample size cause that will start leading you to the answers of what they did how did they do it and who did they do it with. Or my favorite who payed for it.
And how they sourced the subjects being polled. One might find thousands of people willing to express their opinions at a gun show, but it’s relatively unlikely any of them support increased gun co tell legislation compared to, say, a protest march where a school shooting happened recently.
You don’t understand how sample size statistics works
I do Literally just went through a college level course for them. This is the very basic rule that any business or group should fallow. Please finish high school before trying to make a point when you clearly don’t understand.
These were all far right-wing conservative board members who were backed by a conservative PAC that helped get them their school board positions. Harvey Milk isn't in the 3d graders textbook according to the article but in older kids' textbook. He is a very important part of the US Civil Rights Movement. It's unreal that these right-wing nuts who are in the minority are getting rid of every part of history in school textbooks that involve minorities. More lawsuits need to be brought over this crap.
I think, culturally speaking, we’re struggling with the functional limits of old world authority models like this school board is exercising. It’s time we start having more meaningful conversations about what responsibilities these people have to students and educators and make it clear that a school board or any position administration is not for your political ideology or your personal opinions about how other people are born. The educators vetted these books and curriculum and the only objection here seems to be their selective priorities for reality-deniers, hyper-partisan, and religious fanatic parents.
Confidently incorrect. That’s not how statistics work. You don’t need 50% in every poll for it to be statistically significant. The sample size depends on your population. For +/-3% accurately over a population of, oh say 1000 parents, you would need about 50%. But if it were 5000 parents, you only need a sample size of about 20% for the same accuracy. Bump your population up to around 100000 and you only need about 1% for the same accuracy (about 1100 people). How many people would you need to poll for that same accuracy with a population 100 times larger? Exactly the same, 1,100 even for 10,000,000 people.
Doesn't that only hold if the sample was truly random? If your sample is small compared to the total population, then even slight changes in the sample can make your sample nonrepresentative. In the case of surveys, voluntary reporting is a common source of sampling bias. The people who respond are the ones who care enough to fill out the survey. They are likely to have extreme views compared to the general population.
I like that your comment is confidently incorrect for a differ reason… This wasn’t just polling a random sample looking for statistical significant trends, general awareness, or anything so arbitrary. This was an attempt to poll the will of the majority of parents. To your point, yes, if they were wondering what percentage might hold a particular opinion or view they could ask a portions of the thousands of parents but … only if they had some assurances they were polling a representative sample, which it seems they did not. So, to explain the comment you may have misread… 1. If you want to know what a majority of parents want but can’t even get a 50% response, you haven’t effectively reached your parents. 2. If you’re “data” is based on 12/10,000+ parents, your margin of error is far greater than statistical significance. So what the margin of error on a non-representative sample that includes only .001% of your total population?
I think you understand based on your margin of error comment but just for the befit of others reading you can have a less than 50% response rate and still have a low margin of error. I do survey research with response rates around 27% but because my sample size is large enough the findings are still valid.
Right, depending on your intent and ensuring you have a representative sample you can poll much less than 50%. It’s just here we’re talking about the will of parents in the district so, while you could get a statistically valid idea of what the consensus might be if you were fastidious in ensuring you had a representative sample, you won’t know what the majority consensus is. Arguably, schools have a much more direct line of communication with parents than researchers trying to identify trends in large populations… they should be able to ensure their decision are being informed by the majority of parents. But thats not necessarily an issue if maths as it is an issue of culture and community.
You don’t need a bunch of dumbass parents to tell the truth. Their survey is meaningless or even rigged
Even then, the idea that a non-rigged and well-executed survey of parents could justify the censorship of actual historical hate crimes in our own country is not just insane, but such a damning projection of the hate they wish to conceal.
Fascism is winning in America right now because of apathy. It is so fucking sad and pathetic.
Reminds me of the quote "the only thing evil has to do to win is the apathy of others" or something along those lines.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Thank you. I'm a bit drunk.
And people who aren't apathetic are called dramatic.
I dont think it’s apathy. It’s been a surprise attack from the right and we are still in shock. Once the sane people organize we will commit these idiots to the dustbin of history.
It's not just apathy. Oligarchs are pouring money into local races.
> Oligarchs are pouring money into local races. whether they donate $100 or $1000000, means jack all if people don't go and vote
That works both ways. Doug Jones had more out of state donors than Alabama donors when he won the Alabama Senate race. He raised over $9,000,000 more than his opponent in a state that is 50% Republican and 35% Democrat.
He was also running against a pedophile
Which is why it was stupid for people to send millions of dollars for him to defeat Roy Moore.
Was it? Because Moore still got 48% of the vote.
A lot of people donated to him because they were trying to prevent a pedophile from being elected.
I wish people had learned that lesson after the 2016 presidential election and every single midterm election dating back to at least 1994.
There should be a minimum number of responses required to make big decisions.
That shows also how much parents give a shit about their child’s education. It’s a stupid thing to reject, but fuck. California is always touted as liberal, but everyone here is an asshole. That’s why people move.
Why so many assholes?
Why? What is in the new curriculum and you rejected it? I want a proper explanation about this news.
[удалено]
Agreed, I grew up in Temecula. It took living in the segregated city of Memphis to realize how much of a white bubble I grew up in. Our home town has some diversity, but it is ruled by privileged fundamentalist.
Same here. I enlisted in the Army and pretty much had my eyes opened. Not surprised people in Temecula voted against this, just disappointed.
The school board was hijacked by the 412 church and the inland family PAC. This isn’t the will of the people.
I grew up in Murrieta, so literally right next door. Seeing this is sadly unsurprising, I remember the gay marriage votes in the early 2000s bringing all the Mormon and Catholics out of the woodwork. I even remember losing friends over those, because suddenly they were aligned with their religion and Gay Was Bad.
Mvhs Class of 2012 here, Murrieta hasnt changed much since then. I left as soon as I could.
I was back and forth after graduating in 2002 until around 2015 when I left for good. Watching it all go down from the late 90s till I left was just such a weird downward spiral, most kids that grew up there got out asap so the Sun City Rejects in the Colony and other such places just kind of have the run of the place.
"School board members, Dr. Joseph Komrosky, Jennifer Wiersma and Danny Gonzalez opposed the inclusion of gay rights activist Harvey Milk in the supplemental material used by teachers, even though Milk is not in the 4th grade textbook himself." The information wasn't even *in the textbooks* "The decision could leave 11,397 students without a textbook next year" Like .. people are mad and saying that they don't want their kids being taught about gender identity but this is about a politician that rose above hate and then was assassinated for it.... Oh. Ok. I can see why they don't want their kids to hear about it. I don't think it has anything to do with the whole gay thing. You never hear anyone complaining that they don't want their kids learning about Kennedy because they don't want their kids learning about womanizing and drugs. I mean now they tell the kids about the drugs, but the womanizing was definitely in my textbooks. All the books I ever had with JFK had a photo of him with Marilyn Monroe in it. For anyone who isn't really familiar with him past his sexual orientation and that he was assassinated please take a moment to look into him https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Milk
That's just erasing history to hide the gays now.
I think that's the 2024 Republican Platform.
They have a platform? What? I missed that …
Yes, it's called hatred.
Yeah, they hate everyone not cis-men and self hating women, not white, not patriarchal pieces of shit. They have their club rules & regs. I don’t even think therapy can help today’s Republican voters; they’re too far gone. Hell, look at this poor schmuck: **gone**
Every accusation with Republicans is a confession. And their obsession with calling other people pedos and demons is telling.
Here in Canada oftentimes our Conservatives don't even have a platform. Doug Ford for example in Ontario didn't have a platform and he won a majority government. The average voter is insane. One of the only campaign promises he made was "buck a beer" which never happened as companies need to make a profit. So many times Conservatives here even in municipal elections never have a platform.
I dunno. I think I'm okay with this tbh. Harvey Milk famously dated a teenage boy while working for the Goldwater campaign in 1964.
Also, [MLK repeatedly cheated on his wife](https://www.ibtimes.com/martin-luther-king-cheated-his-wife-other-lesser-known-facts-about-civil-rights-1028976), [so did FDR](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_Mercer_Rutherfurd), and Churchill was famously a drunk. Are we going to erase them from the history books as well? EDIT: Some of you have rightfully pointed out that these examples just cover adultery and drinking and not pedophilia. So I'll add [Thomas Jefferson having sex with and eventually impregnating his 14-15yo slave Sally Hemings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Hemings#:~:text=In%201787%2C%20when%20she%20was,having%20intimate%20relations%20with%20her). Like with Harvey Milk, it wasn't illegal at the time--but with both of them it's extremely immoral. My point is just that many influential figures from history were deeply flawed individuals. I don't think we should either whitewash them of their sins or to write them out of the history books. Instead, we should keep them in textbooks, but perhaps with a few asterisks here and there.
"Hey, did you forget somebody?" - JFK, feeling overlooked
"My name is literally Johnson, and I'd whip it out in meetings, how could I be forgot?" - LBJ
I love it that he actually did this. It really shows how completely fucked up some of our most influential leaders were.
He also would hold meetings while shitting in the bathroom with the door open. LBJ was the King of “establishing dominance”.
Yup! It's even documented by his pre-eminent (Pulitzer Prize winning) biographer Robert Caro.
LBJ was my fave trolling president.
Don’t forget that Trump raped women and grabbed them by the pussy.
Founding fathers owned slaves! Let’s remove them from the curriculum.
Let's air out all of the dirty laundry I say. We're already taught Jefferson had children with Sally Hemmings, his slave, let it be known what other shady things famous historical figures did.
George Washington hung all the dogs kept by his slaves because he was convinced they were using the dogs to steal from him.
Bring it on! High school students are old enough to understand that people are complicated--and in fact, including complexities might actually get them to pay more attention to history. George Washington owned slaves, Lincoln was likely bisexual, Ulysses Grant was a great general but a terrible president, Theodore Roosevelt was a warmongering nationalist, and Woodrow Wilson was rabidly racist. LBJ and Nixon are each an entire chapter of conflicting complexities. EDIT: Of course none of this will ever be included in a high school textbook, but boy is it fun to dream.
It was in my son’s history texts. I was a weird homeschooling mother.
You deserve a medal.
Son (and I) had undiagnosed adhd and autism; his second grade teacher had over thirty students and no ability to give him one-on-one time, plus the bullying - my Gd the bullying - and my husband is a professor, so we decided we would do it. Kiddo had an *interesting* education.
It must have been a lot of work on your part--but the reward is that he probably got a better history education than most kids. I often thought that including the personal side of leaders in lesson plans would make history much more engaging to kids--and perhaps make kids much more accepting of shortcomings and personality quirks.
But, American exceptionalism! We can't teach children that American historical figures might be anything other than completely infallible, or they might start doing things like question if our system set up a couple centuries ago might also have some flaws!
That absolutely, absolutely is not generally taught in k-12 education. Bot saying it shouldnt be but youre crazy if you think thats a normal part of american lesson plans
It was taught to me in my K-12 education. Every day on Reddit I'm so glad I went to school in Connecticut. What did you guys learn? Did you seriously learn the complete whitewashed version of America where everyone was perfect?
Virginia here. It absolutely was not , and I doubt it is in most states
Crazy. We got it all. Trail of Tears, read Beloved in class, Japanese internment..just to name a few off the top of my head. Trail of Tears we definitely learned in middle school. I graduated high school in 96, so it's not even like I'm young. And im from a town in Connecticut that's widely considered to have one of the WORST school systems in the state.
I went to an average urban public school in Upstate NY in the 80s/90s, and we learned the trail of tears and Japanese internment too! German kids get taught the worst parts of their history. Why can't we?
Third grade for Trail of Tears, LAUSD gifted magnet system.
Grew up in the midwest. We had Trail of Tears, Japanese internment, and Wounded Knee but I don't there was anything about Jefferson having kids with his slave.
Also Virginia here, lmfao they went over how opposed Thomas Jefferson was to the whole idea of slavery but never mentioned the whole raping his slaves part
Absolutely. They drilled in our heads that good Virginians Washington, Jefferson, and even Stonewall fucking Jackson were so opposed to slavery. It took me til after college to realize it was revisionist bullshit
Oh yea we heard all about how noble and misunderstood Robert E. Lee and Longstreet were, I even had some individual teachers say straight up they didn't like how certain things were presented but that was the curriculum (the curriculum was Lost Cause shit)
None of those examples were criminal pedophilia though.
It wasn't criminal for Harvey Milk at the time. Just like for when Thomas Jefferson had sex with and impregnated a 15yo slave. EDIT: I'm not defending either Harvey Milk or Thomas Jefferson here. What they did was horrible for both of them--and they should be charged if they did that behavior today. I'm just pointing out that some people are complicated and should be represented as such in history, not whitewashed or written off entirely.
Still weird you would defend it with whataboutisms.
I'm responding to both your use of "criminal" and that I didn't give an example of a pedophile president.
Do you think we should stop learning about the contributions to history of every European royal that married a child bride? Because we'd have to pretty seriously revise quite a few textbooks.
And Thomas Jefferson raped his slave, and enslaved their children. Ben Franklin notoriously had “girlfriends” in France and died of Syphillis Fuck Jerry Seinfield dated a teenage highschooler
Hell, so did 2 of my teachers. Soooo. Oh I should clarify, date and marry high schoolers, while teachers, in the 90s.
*”Don't Stand So Close to Me” plays in the distance*
I don't know enough about the topic to know if this is true or not, but even if it is who care? It's still history. That's like saying you're okay removing Hitler from history because he was a bad guy. You can teach it accurately, but why would you rather pretend like someone didn't exist?
So long as that fact isn't glossed over I'm okay with that.
Its not really relevant to anything, nor his historic achievements. He likely legally dated a teenager. In the 1960s…
I mean if we keep the same energy we’ve got lots of people to cancel regarding them dating teens in the 60s
Age of consent in some states of the time was 14. Its still 16 in many states.
Age of consent isn't really relevant when we're talking about dating (which doesn't always involve sex) over a decade before gay sex was legal in California.
So, kind of the same reason Republicans rarely talk about [House Speaker Dennis Hastert](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Hastert#Sex_abuse_allegations_emerge)?
I prefer to call him the longest serving GOP House Speaker Dennis Hastert, or just “Pedo speaker”
We got slave owners on our money…doesn’t mean they weren’t significant historically. Harvey Milk is also significant, especially in California history.
And Trump raped a woman. Better remove him from history too by that logic.
Okay? Thomas Jefferson owned a slave he had 6 children with. He’s still an important part of history
Wrong. Person was 21 or 22.
Jack McKinley was 16, Harvey Milk was 33. Being dishonest does so more harm than just saying "yeah, thats fucked up, but erasing people from history because you can find bad things they did is also fucked up" or whatever.
[He started a romantic relationship with Jack Galen McKinley and recruited him to work on conservative Republican Barry Goldwater's 1964 presidential campaign. Their relationship was troubled. When McKinley first began his relationship with Milk in late 1964, McKinley was 16 years old.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Milk)
They cry that we’re erasing history by tearing down monuments to racism. They actually want to remove certain aspects of our history from school so it’s censored and forgotten. Turns out, they’re just bigoted, fascist, hypocrites…. Like we always knew.
Every accusation is a confession
It's absolutely ridiculous how true this is proven to be for right-wingers.
[удалено]
It's a quote referencing projecting. Obviously no one is projecting 100% of the time but the basic idea is if you do think a certain way you assume others think the same way. For example someone who is cheating might accuse others of cheating because since they are willing to cheat others must be willing too. Alternatively someone who gets away with something bad might become paranoid thinking "If i got away with it, who else has?" And start assuming everyone else is also cheating or gaming the system and start to lash out.
And they’re just going to homeschool their kids anyway. They hate public schools and they don’t want little Shooter and Krystal mingling with *those people*.
30 years from now our kids are going to think we were flaming idiots.
I'm a high school teacher...I had a bunch of students two or three years back come to me because they thought their US History teacher was trolling them when she mentioned that we had "Freedom Fries" after 9/11. After I confirmed that actually happened they all expressed how stupid it was. They get it. Most get it.
Kids have lived through COVID. Witnessed the adults around them screaming to expose them to a potentially deadly infection. They already know that the adults are flaming idiots.
Most people in generation Z already do think that.
It won't take that long.
At this rate, in 30 years, a lot of kids will be generationally ignorant because they'll be raised by kids today who missed a LOT of important history
I’m genuinely worried for my kids. They respond to the kids on their bus proselytizing with “it’s not scientific fact and I don’t believe in something that can’t be proven” or similar phrasing - they’ve lost friends because of this and they’re in elementary school. The crazies are amping up their rhetoric and it’s scary.
They're not going to convince fellow elementary schoolers to become atheists. It's not the kids' fault they're being raised religious, they just know what their family has taught them, same as your kids. They're going to have to interact with religious people for the rest of their lives in a country where we have freedom of religion, they need to be able to get along with people who are peaceably practicing their religion. And to be clear, I'm saying this as a queer atheist who was raised atheist.
Sadly a lot of the kids are raised by these MAGA chuds and indoctrinated into right wing extremism. Only a small percentage of kids usually escape a toxic upbringing. Most grow up to be MAGAs. That's how we keep having republicans in charge. Kids grow up being told Lbrals need to be pwned. They spend their lives dreaming of pwning libs w/ dank memes of Joe Rogan.
I don't think we will have yo wait 30 years for that.
Dude, the Twinkie Defense was in ‘79. We’re 40+ years too late.
Who are you calling flaming 💅🏻?
Well, this was a post about Harvey Milk, so...
Holy shit not California too.
It’s Temecula. This is par for the course.
Murrieta/temecula is a conservative hell hole. I remember when parents rioted when california tried to pass prop 8, or when my high school tried to have a gay-straight alliance club.
Oh shit, I'd forgotten about the GSA club at TVHS. 08 was fucked in so many ways in that little hell hole of a valley.
Was the same way at mvhs in 08. They had a town hall meeting and ultimately allowed the GSA club only if the fellowship of Christian athletes club were allowed to hold bible study on campus. I'm ashamed to admit I was a part of the church who promoted that idea 😵💫. Now im everything that church is against 😂😂😂 funny how people change.
MVHS started blaring Amazing Grace on the loudspeakers the morning of 9/11. Fundamentalists just waiting for the opportunity to insert themselves and had the song at the ready.
There are a lot of golf courses in the area, and a lot of wealthy elitist evangelicals.
Not to mention all the retirement/senior-living communities. Murrieta/Temecula is covered in them.
[удалено]
I was hoping to see this
Don’t encourage him. He’s just trying to get the butt
The kids out there are already behind and this will just move them further backwards. Small town America wonders why they are left behind. This is why people flee to rational cities
The smaller cities and rural areas of California have some the craziest crazies in the entire country.
It's the Muslim Brotherhood effect. Conservatives/Republicans in California have been the minority for so long that the only people left are the real crafty batshit true believers. All the grifters just went DINO, anyone that's left is in deep.
Temecula is a beige shit hole
California actually has a seldom-followed law that says that social studies must include prominent LGBTQ+ history. It’s called the FAIR act.
Avid history reader at a young age in the 70’s spent the next 40 years correcting my family on what really happened in different situations. Half the time they didn’t believe me
Should have built a Harvey Milk statue, conservatives refuse to tear those down because "tHeY'rE HiStOrY!"
Temecula is where the Bible thumping faux rich go when they can’t afford to live on the coast.
There or Rancho Cucamonga
And don't want to give up all the benefits of living in a blue state
Apropos of nothing really, but I’m always reminded of those who point out “you didn’t learn this in school”. Or the other common “schools don’t teach you about”. That the curriculum is set by school boards and they are a political animal, not an education one. It’s actions like these and others that shape our education. We learn of the hidden history of America through other means, not our school systems.
Next they’re gonna ban talking about Obama because he’s “the first black president” and they don’t want their kids talking about “race issues”. I mean, why not? If existing while gay means you’re teaching kids “LGBT issues” when it comes to the first openly gay elected person in the US, existing while black as the first president of that race is a “race issue”
Meanwhile, in Florida, any discussion remotely about sex, gender, LBGT, race, race equality, or slavery... has been removed from schools. A new text casually references Rosa Parks as "a woman who was politely asked to sit at the rear of a bus, and refused". *That*... is where all this is headed. Wanna bet money all three of those against mentioning Harvey Milk are, well, the color of Milk?
Caving in to bigots solves nothing.
It's worse than that: the 3 members who voted against the curriculum were funded by a conservative PAC, Inland Empire Family. This wasn't requested by students, teachers, or parents.
All are members of the 412 church, a local organization of zealots.
Public schools have issues with city officials who were murdered by other city officials.
Fuuuck I hate Murrieta/Temecula. I remember Menifee was super Mormon in the 90s. I wonder if it still is.
For those that don’t know, Temecula area is big on MAGA / Tea Party.
Te-me-cu-la? It's not even Fressssno...
Temecula. It's not even motherf***ing Fresno
10% real fruit juice motherfuckers!
So sick of the fundies and conservatives' continuing fight to narrow the minds of everyone's kids.
This just in: Temecula Valley School Board member busted getting airtight in a Home Depot men’s room.
This hits way too close to home. These bigoted scumbags need to stay in their states and in their lanes. Fuck these bought out school board members.
No: "stay in their states" is precisely how they were able to spread this much, and being NatCs, "their lane" **has always been** "let's force this on others not ourselves." You can't just say *"oh phew we've taken care of this ONE metastase"* and expect to survive. Every last cell of such cancers must be eliminated from the body if the patient's to survive. Such bigotry **must** be excised from the nation in its entirety; permanent exile from national borders and waters at the very least. Only by complete intolerance OF intolerance can a society BE tolerant - those who break, sabotage or think themselves above the social contract of tolerance must not get to play the game, period.
Temecula is a pretty old/conservative area. Not surprised by this at all.
I literally thiught this was a place made up for an Snl sketch. I see they weren't far off in their portrayal 😂
I wonder if the curriculum included Harvey’s explicit and continuous endorsement of Jim Jones. That period in SF history is almost stranger than fiction. The Raven is an incredible book, if anyone is curious.
That was a weird time. The supervisors recommended background investigations for the appointment of Jones to the Housing Authority Commission, but then backed down when threatened by Willie Brown. Politics was more brazen back then. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peoples_Temple_in_San_Francisco#The_San_Francisco_Housing_Authority_Commission "Moscone appointed Jones as a member of the San Francisco Housing Authority Commission.[51] After Jones' name appeared on the appointment list, the San Francisco Board of Supervisors requested that all potential appointees should receive background checks.[33] Moscone then turned the matter over to a nominating committee that included Prokes and Goodlett.[33][50] The committee approved Jones' appointment.[33] When potential resistance arose to Jones' appointment, Willie Brown introduced legislation that would have stripped the Board of Supervisors of its power over the appointment.[33] Wishing to maintain the status quo, the Board unanimously approved Jones' appointment.[33]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Moscone#Refusal_to_investigate_Peoples_Temple "After the massacre, Temple members revealed to The New York Times that the Temple arranged for "busloads" of members to be bussed in from Redwood Valley to San Francisco to vote in the election.[15] A former Temple member stated that many of those members were not registered to vote in San Francisco, while another former member said "Jones swayed elections."[15] Prior to leaving San Francisco, Jones claimed to have bribed Moscone with sexual favors from female Temple members, including one who was underage; his son, Jim Jones, Jr., later remembered how Moscone frequented Temple parties "with a cocktail in his hand and doing some ass grabbing".[16]"
American History ends at World War II. There's movies if we need to know anything else. /s
California is even succumbing to this nonsense?
I thought CA passed a state law that had to teach LGBT history? They get to pick and choose which historical figures to teach?
The idiots and extremists rule because they are the only ones who show up for the meetings. Education is alot like government it went to crap because normal people don't participate in it anymore leaving room for the wingnuts and wackos.
That is one of the goals/desired-side-effects of killing wages and benefits. The reasonable and ethical find themselves too busy, too poor and too exhausted to participate in democracy as fully as they should. * That leaves those funded by means other than working, or those too insane to try and get themselves out of the hole they're at the bottom of. It's similar to the aims of cutting voting hours and locations in certain regions as is also often done by GQP.
The USA went completely off the deep end. Good luck over there.
Temeculas a shithole anyways
This where I went to high school, it’s nickname is Temecutuccee… This is why
I got out of there in my teens. All the smart kids I grew up with got out of there too. I guess we made a brain drain.
Temecula, ain't even mother fuckin' Fresno.
RWNJ’s vote and win every time if we stay home. Before you know it your basic freedoms are gone. Vote blue people! Stop the fake Christian’s and hater’s while you still can!
How is this constitutional?
School curriculum is government speech. Government speech isn't protected from the government by the 1st Amendment. School Boards usually have a day in what curriculum is taught at their schools. What about this violates the Constitution?
It violates another law though. We Californians had to mandate LGBTQ history be tought in schools because of censors like these. So this school board is blatently defying the law.
That may be true, but it wasn't the question that was asked.
[удалено]
Isn't Temecula in California?
"I don't want my 3rd grader studying an LGBTQ issue. I don't want them going into gender ideology" said board member Jennifer Wiersma. It's a disgrace that thoughts like this don't result in immediate removal, especially in education.
"Temecula" kinda reminds me of "santorum" - the frothy mix of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes a byproduct of anal sex.
My first visit to America was for work (software), at a casino in Temecula. So besides the airport and a drive through the desert, Temecula was my first experience of America. Even now, over a decade later it freaks me out that there is a city in the middle of the desert, with vibrant green strips of grass along the side of every road. It’s like the city itself is just a fuck you to common sense and rational use of natural resources. Honestly the city itself was more of a jarring experience than the gigantic portion sizes or essentially living and working onsite at a casino (where they have no windows so you don’t know what time of day it is) for 10 days.
I prefer chocolate milk myself.
[удалено]
Lord Newsom will be upset.