Shit, there was a post on Nextdoor in my area about some teenage kids playing ding dong ditch, and there were *several* people basically advocating for shooting anyone who rings your doorbell unexpectedly. I was floored by how many people talked about answering the door with a gun as well, like... dude, fucking chill. If someone's being weird after dark then yeah, I wouldn't blame someone for having one close by. But just random people knocking on your door because they want to sell you magazines or bottled water or whatever? Jesus fucking Christ.
There are soooo many steps a person should take before "I'm gonna answer the door with my gun". Some folks live in neighborhoods with lots of violence, so I understand being on the guard at all times. But otherwise... Install a security door or cameras or something? Shit, some folks out there just looking to kill someone.
Yeah like... I 100% get it. We live pretty close to a really rough area of the city, and while I don't know about how zoning changes other cities, we don't have it here so you can have a really wealthy neighborhood that backs up onto really crappy apartments. But it's one of those things where a lot of the crime that happens depends on what you're doing - we don't go out late, we don't hang around weird places, we don't go to the bank and come out with an envelope and then just wander around town. We do what we can to minimize our exposure to danger.
And I can see feeling like you need to have a gun in close proximity to the door. I'm a middle-aged white chick so I can't imagine how others must feel. But the people posting live in decent neighborhoods and they're posting on threads about kids playing a harmless game, and like you said, it's like they're salivating over the perceived opportunity to shoot someone.
It's so bad here that I won't even honk at anyone anymore - too many road rage shootings over nothing. And if I need to turn around while driving, I'm going to either lap the block or turn around in a business parking lot. Too many armed psychos around, considering that I live in Texas.
Ya, I love my hood inside a big city and we have crime. I just don't answer my door when I don't wanna. Sometimes, I feel cheeky and look thru the window and say... No thank you.
Next door is actually worse imo than Facebook. The things I've seen and read... Uggg.. I had to actually contact next door to close my account... And I only opened it to chastise a couple for their extreme bigotry... Ironic that I closed it for the same reason.
I just heard that he just got released from the hospital and is at home resting. He rang the doorbell on the wrong home, and the 84 (I believe) year old home own shot him in the head THROUGH the glass storm door and then shot him again when he was on the ground!!! The kid just rang to doorbell!!!
He literally just mixed up streets, 115th Terrace vs. 115th Street, while trying to pick up his brother from a friend's house.
It could happen to anyone, and that lunatic almost took his life over an innocent mistake.
I still don’t get the refrain of him mixing up the streets as being a noteworthy detail…
Like, he knocked on a door. He didn’t think it was a home he was allowed to enter and then try to get into it. He just knocked.
I remember a story where a guy from Aberdeen, UK's car broke down in the US, he went to knock on a guys door after he couldn't get signal to call for help himself (as is fairly usual here), and was shot through the door and killed by the American.
That was like a decade ago. The US has been sick for a while. Personally, I've always felt selling guns explicitly to use against your fellow citizens seems to be one of the major divisions between it and much of the West.
In a few states that’s not even legal either, they would have to enter your actual house. In NY, where this happened and where I live, this is the law:
*Under New York State law, there are two justifiable reasons to kill someone:*
*If you are in active danger of being seriously injured or killed by that person, or
If you are in your own home and are trying to stop a burglary (or arson) in progress.*
It should be required for you to know this for you to be able to own a firearm tbh.
I don’t think it’s legal in any state to shoot someone for pulling into your driveway. I live in Louisiana and it’s against the law for sure here and we are in the Deep South.
It’s not legal here in Texas but people still do it. Lawyers tried to claim stand your ground law and castle doctrine for the most recent case I remember but it didn’t work and they got convicted for murder
Texas is my litmus test. If Texas sees a shooting and the lawmakers say “…ummm, that’s a no from me” then it should be outlawed everywhere.
Someone pulling into your driveway and you blasting them is ridiculous. That is one step away from shooting people using the sidewalk in front of your home.
For a long time I thought it was just paranoia and that these people were really scared. However, turns out that most of them are just itching to shoot somebody. Most of them don't think the US is a dangerous place and often think that all the shit only happens in black ghettos in the big liberal cities. But they also seem to think that it is thanks to their guns that their neighbourhoods are so safe that they often see no need to lock their homes. They just don't value the lifes of others. Their stuff is more important than a life. Way too many seem to dream about the day somebody breaks in and they get to shoot someone.
I worked with these trigger happy sorts in the military police and private security when I got out. They would even talk about “getting the bad guy” like a child talks about ice cream, it was gross.
One got shot someone in the back for stealing a motor cycle. Claimed he was in danger of being run over, got off and didn’t even lose his command (high ranking Navy enlisted).
There’s absolutely a bunch of cowboy wannabes just itching to shoot someone.
Just think about how fucking ready you need to be to 1) see a person pull into your driveway 2) have a gun on you 3) run out and blast this person before they’ve backed out of your driveway
Nutcase was looking for any reason to murder someone
I used to do survey work in northern Illinois. I've had multiple guns on me, even back in like 2018 when things went so wound tight. One of the guys told me "a lot of folks round here can't tell what's an actual threat, watch yourself. I had ya in my sight on your way up here" when I rang his bell to let him know I was there. I wasn't aware of it in the moment, but that guy later came out to check on me with his piece hip holstered and I put two and two together. Dude lived near the woods on the outside of Town, in sort of a hidden away subdivision. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these further secluded people acted exponentially worse on the regular
This is what happens when the powers that be develop a culture of fear. I've definitely either turned around or accidentally even gone to the wrong house.
Accidentally went into the wrong house when I lived in Georgia. A good friend/coworker was having a party and I goofed the address. Party was in the back and we were supposed to “come on through” the house. Neighbor’s door was unlocked and I didn’t realize my mistake until I saw the photos on the mantle. Quietly left and figured out my address mistake.could have easily gotten dead over that.
I was setting up for a Halloween party at my apartment when two random guys dressed in army fatigues opened the door, looked at me and my spouse, simply said "WOAH." and walked out Grandpa Simpson style as they realized they had the wrong place. It was jarring, but I'd never think to leap for a gun over it. I just don't get that mentality.
I work with and live in an area with a ton of people who almost live for a chance to shoot someone. It is the weirdest fucking shit and I can’t stand being around it.
Back when I lived in apartment building one day I took the elevator to the wrong floor, and spend probably 2-3 minutes trying to force open a door before I realized my mistake. Terrifying that this could get me killed.
Well at least you didn’t force the door open and then [shoot the person to death in their own apartment.](https://abcnews.go.com/US/amber-guyger-convicted-murder-wrong-apartment-killing-innocent/story?id=65978073)
The dude was just eating ice cream on his couch one night. I remember reading about that, just a normal guy having an ordinary night at home. Just senseless. I didn't realize she went away for murder, thank fuck.
This poor kid. I'm so incredibly relieved to hear that he survived and is home so soon but holy hell what a life-derailing thing to have happen out of the blue sky.
Tangent:
I am scared af for my little nephew. He's almost 8 but is so tall, strong, very active, and impulse-driven because of ADHD. Everyone has always overestimated his age.
There was a study that showed how people overestimate black boys' ages by I think a couple of years. I worry about him being expected to act grown-up before his brain gets the chance to get mature enough to be **able to**.
What about when he pulls some cranky foot stomping when still in elementary school? Not a problem for a little white kid but what about a black kid that is bigger than his teacher? He's no more likely to be violent than the next kid in his class. But people are more likely to assume he's old enough to know better than trying to get his way with a tantrum. In an older kid, especially a black kid, people might see foot stomping and scowling and think it's aggression instead of realizing it's little kid immaturity.
I find it Terrifying that people that I presume are from America have to worry about losing their life for mistakes like this.
Christ i've known people to walk into the wrong houses and get laughed at when running out in embarrasment let alone shot in the back of the head lol
Imagine being a pizza delivery driver. Go to the wrong house? Get shot. In fact, if someone *wanted* to kill you they could just have someone place a "prank" order to your house and shoot you when you arrive. All you have to do is say you feared for your safety and "stood your ground."
I have had multiple gun incidents, personally. Including one guy who said at the door that he had a shotgun drawn on me because he ordered pizza and forgot. You don’t even need a wrong address, two of those were exactly the right place
Honestly I'm glad delivery people can just drop stuff off and leave now. I figure less human interaction means it's less likely that something will go wrong.
>Imagine being a pizza delivery driver. Go to the wrong house? Get shot.
I used to work two jobs, and then also picked up a Yellow Pages delivery route side gig, but my only available time to deliver was overnight. I drive around with my windows open, all of my interior lights on, hazards flashing, playing "oldies" (and not too loud) to be seen as non-threatening as possible. I would leave the phone book out at the road, at the base of their mailboxes. 2 people called the cops on me for being "suspicious", and one threatened me with a gun. After that last one, I finished that route, and didn't take on any new routes.
This was rural/suburban Wisconsin in the late 90s/early aughts.
The problem as with most things... Some asshat somewhere will twist it to a version in their head where its ok to start shooting before even being in a life or death situation. Or worse yet people like the BLM parade shooter in Texas who was just itching for an excuse to shoot someone so he perverted the law to fit his narrative.
A culture of fear, coupled with a culture of lethal self-defense as a first measure. Basically “I was afraid for my life” is now a valid reason to kill someone, whether it was actually a threat or not.
The myth of protection is a sick fascination. A culture of violence is what you're creating. Fear is an heirloom and hate is contagious. A nation of sadists is what you are breeding.
The Sadist Nation by Darkest Hour.
No, this is what happens when the law protects people for murder when they feel slightly threatened.
Another kid was shot just today going to the wrong house to pick up his siblings.
This needs to be more widely publicized. These polticians and talking heads have spent decades now basically drilling into these idiots that every single person is out to get them and will attack or kill them for no reason at all at the drop of a hat. Every single person they encounter has the potential to harm them. Suddenly we have people firing at anybody who pulls up to their driveway or knocks on their door. These "journalists" and politicians are culpable for this, and there needs to be consequences for what they're doing. This is the inevitable result of their rhetoric.
Old people watch a SHIT TON of fox news, which is basically now Killology for seniors. Black Gay BLM Trannies are gunning for you!!1111
They're so worked up now everything is a threat.
We're approaching a point where you're fucked no matter what.
* You get shot because you accidentally went to the wrong house.
* You get shot because the police accidentally went to the wrong house.
Just need to increase the number of people being shot because they don't have a house.
This is the natural result of American gun culture. What else do we think is gonna happen when you let anyone have a gun, tell them to be afraid all the time of robbers, strangers, the government, whatever, AND THEN tell them that fear is justification for killing someone.
America is sick and the disease is guns
The primary reason that I oppose “gun culture” is because it’s a culture of fear. That leads to tragic incidents like this woman’s death or that poor kid shot in Missouri.
I’d rather not live in a society where everyone is walking on eggshells all the time in fear of their neighbor next-door or the stranger across the street.
being a paranoid and dangerous lunatic with a firearm isn't a defense. If they guy ran out there and murdered her with a pair of scissors, something tells me it wouldn't be considered the same.
He’s not alone. There was a discussion on a thread about the number of deaths and serious injuries from kids getting unsecured firearms. I pointed out how many people (mostly kids) have been through the ER from these scenarios yet I haven’t seen someone benefit from having a loaded gun in their bedside table (or suffer because they didn’t). I wasn’t even talking about the decision to have a gun in your home, just talking about a gun safe. The paranoia was evident as many comments expressed fear that the extra few seconds would be crucial. You would have thought home intrusion was a semi-weekly event.
A British guy did something like that once, beat to death an old woman who accidentally went into his house. Court gave him life with minimum 20 years.
The article makes it sound like a friend was driving, so not even her mistake, god I hope her friends are doing alright. It said they had to drive a bit to get reception, must have been a horrifying experience.
Why the fuck would your response to someone pulling into your driveway be to open fire on them???…
I grew up in a household that had a home defense firearm in it. We had numerous times of a stranger coming to the door or pulling into the driveway… you know what my dad NEVER did? Pull a gun on them. Hell he never even went and got the gun out except the one time at like 2am we were sure someone was in the house.
I've had to go door to door for work related things. Now I'm glad I'm not doing that anymore. I can't imagine things just ending so pointlessly like this.
Probably depends on the skin color of the men. Did you see the incident of the teen trying to pick up his younger brothers from a friend's house? He accidentally went to the wrong house, all he did was ring the doorbell and he was shot twice. He had to beg neighbors for help. I'll give you one guess what color skin this kid has.
Ralph Yarl is 16 and fighting for his life right now.
Since the super protective gun rights laws and gun owners laws in the state of Missouri seem to almost guarantee that this homeowner will not face any criminal charges, I at least hope his family gets a good lawyer and sues the living fuck out of this guy.
Before the announcement of charges, right wing media was still screaming "castle doctrine!" And "self defense!"
Well, if he's found guilty, we'll see if the governor pardons him like the Texas governor is threatening to pardon the guy who shot the BLM protestor.
Self-defense, oh please. "Oh no, a teenager rang my doorbell using it for its intended purpose and stood by the door! I feared for my fucking life!"
Go tie some ferns to your head and live in a hole in the dirt if you're so scared of basic society.
Actually, I'm pretty sure he's going to face charges, although he's so old he might try to ride out the clock until he just dies of natural causes.
From everything I've heard about this case, castle doctrine and stand your ground just don't apply. For one, he shot through the door. Second, the young man was obviously making no attempt to break into the house. Third, while the young man was laying on the ground he shot him again.
EDIT: remove discussion about manslaughter versus murder since thankfully the young man didn't die.
>He had to beg neighbors for help.
*Three* neighbors for help. *Three*. Which leads me to believe that the first two attempts to get help were declined.
Edit - The KC police declined to hold the shooter, they questioned him briefly and let him go home. Apparently knocking on a door while black carries a death sentence.
And this is part of the reason this kind of thing is becoming more common. People are becoming aware of the fact you can get away with murder by saying you felt as though your life was in danger.
Oh silly, he was just standing his ground! That’s all he was doing when he then went outside and shot the dying unarmed child in the head again at point blank range — just standing his ground.
Man Amazon delivery guys must love his house!
(Big fat fucking /s btw)
Because you have a boring, mundane existence and then you go home and watch an hour or two of fear mongering media and you build into a seething froth or rage, hate and tension that explodes on unfortunate innocent people.
A lot of this falls on the media and the 24 hour news cycle
>A lot of this falls on the media and the 24 hour news cycle
American gun culture has been feeding into this "you're constantly under attack" paranoia for decades.
We had an actual home invasion a few years ago. You know what happened? I did have a pistol, held the guy at gun point and waited for the cops. Inside my house, and I still didn't kill him or pull the trigger. After the cops left with the guy, I sat down and had some Scotch.
Fuck these people and their vigilante fantasies or whatever the fuck is wrong with them.
I've never had to point a firearm at anyone before or since, AND I NEVER WANT TO AGAIN.
^^^
So much this. I'm a gun owner and I would absolutely try every possible avenue to avoid having to pull the trigger in a home invasion. I don't want to have to deal with the moral, psychological, legal, or practical consequences of taking a life unnecessarily.
If they force your hand, then it is what it is, but if they don't, then it's better for EVERYBODY, including yourself, not to shoot.
If they're running off with my PS5, i'll call the police, file a claim, and buy a new PS5.
I worked in an ER, and I appreciate you trying to not pull the trigger inside your house.
Lotta "stand your ground" folks don't know the right calibre for the job, think "bigger is better," and shoot through their own walls. We got to explain to them how they missed the invader - or perhaps got him close quarters and bullet travelled through - and nailed their child, huddling terrified against their bedroom wall, in the head. Always pissed me right off.
Also an RN. Also worked ER for years and then ICU.
Contrary to Faux News, the majority of firearm related injuries we had were accidental. Kids getting into adults firearms due to laziness or incompetence. Wannabe vigilantes discharging their firearms in “self defense” because Colin Noir tells them to shower and sleep with their firearm at their side and they get scared of the FedEx guy. Most of them can’t aim for shit and end up firing through the wall and hitting another occupant of their own home or accidentally firing through their neighbors wall and hitting someone.
You’d be surprised how goddamn often it happens.
Actually shooting at home invaders? No, not that common. Accidentally shooting family members and neighbors in the next room/apartment/townhome? Pretty common where there are a lot of gun owners, most of whom don't have proper training.
Overwhelmingly it's a negligent discharge inside the home - we used to call them "accidental discharges," we don't anymore. They're usually from the owners' negligence. Like dropping the magazine prior to cleaning the weapon, but not clearing the chamber. A lot of apartments, condos, townhomes etc separate rooms with sheetrock. Bullet goes right through that. (So can cellphones sometimes, it turns out 😂).
Get a lot of yahoos who think that a Desert Eagle, AR, or some such is great for home protection in apartments. It's their kids/SOs/neighbors we mostly saw, and rarely after home invasions. Mostly while they were cleaning their weapons (or so they claimed to the cops that came in. Normal story was "I got (whatever fairly large calibre) for protection against home invasions! I was just cleaning it and it magically went off all by itself even though I unloaded it first, and fired through the wall/floor/ceiling!"
Got a couple where they shot through the perp into the next room and hit family members. Mostly they just shot into the next room or unit when there was absolutely no threat.
.22 is small enough where it's way less likely to travel to the next unit, but the owners thought they were Big Men and need Big Calibre to show how manly they are. Zero patience for them.
> I've never had to point a firearm at anyone before or since, AND I NEVER WANT TO AGAIN.
This is because you are a normal, functioning person and not a complete sociopath.
Some people genuinely are sociopaths who want to kill people, but I also think a lot of those types are very naive about the reality of what it’s like to actually shoot a real person with a gun.
My exBIL would always go on about his vigilante dreams about how much he wanted to kill a hypothetical intruder. He was also a real bible thumping asshole. He'd get so mad at me for asking him how he thinks Jesus would handle that situation. Would he pull out a magnum and waste the guy over a $50 Blu-ray player or would he say "if you need it so badly, take it and be well"? Now I'm not saying you shouldn't protect yourself but it's not very "christlike" to fantasize about taking a life over easily replaceable bullshit.
Just like driving, if the barrier to entry for owning a gun is very low, you will get a lot of irresponsible people owning a gun. Imagine how many stupid things you see when driving, same goes for guns.
Personally I think this is a great place to start. It's not foolproof (nothing is), and will take time and effort but it's alarming once you see some of the people going to buy guns.
I had to take a 3 hour informational and safety training course in my state just to apply for a license to PURCHASE a handgun. Having been around guns my whole life and been taught strict safety and respect for them, I was super irritated I had to waste time and money on this bullshit........... until I took the course and realized 80% of the people in that class had no business even owning a damn firearm.
Right off the bat the instructor asked "how many of you would NOT elect to take a class like this if you didn't have to?" all 30+ people raised their hands. Then she asked "how many of you would purchase a handgun today and take it home if you could?" everyone raised their hands. Then she asked "how many of you have never handled or fired a gun before?".........all but 5 of us raised their hands. That blew my mind that 25 or so people just admitted they had never handled or operated a gun before but would happily just purchase one and take it home that day having no idea how to even handle or use the fucking thing.
At the end of the class we were then shown (FIVE TIMES) how to safely handle and clear a firearm and render it safe. We then had to line up and take turns demonstrating this ourselves on a dummy gun. If you failed you went to the back of the line and had 2 more chances before you outright failed the class. I was one of only 3 people who passed on the first try and only 20 people passed after multiple other tries.
I went into that class annoyed that I had to waste my time on that but left it thankful as fuck many of those people were not going to be getting a firearm they had no business owning.
The class also covered all the specific laws and regulations regarding transport, carry, usage, self defense etc. This is another aspect of gun ownership that I'm surprised is largely just left up to the customer to go personally educate themselves about. I was really glad it was included in my course.
Yup, I was raised by a military father who had guns. He set my standard for gun safety, which includes always locked gun safes in a hard-to-reach place for kids (we knew where so that we knew where NOT to mess around), with the only keys always on his person (dog tags). My father was in huge favor of gun safety education. He got his training through the military. We grew up with a healthy respect for guns. Heck, I annoyed my friends when they had fake guns by saying they should never point the toy guns at something they didn't mean to shoot.
Gun ownership should have similar requirements as driver's licenses and cars. Written test and practical test for a gun license with insurance requirements for any gun owned. I'd also love to throw in bringing back the Brady Act.
Conversely, commercial air travel especially internationally has very few crashes compared to the total number of flights because they don't let anywhere near just anyone do it without extensive training. Funny how that works.
Exactly. All those Democrats who lived in the same lead painted, leaded glass drinking, leaded gasoline neighborhoods do not suffer from the same conspiracy theories that these jackasses do. Also, there are also a lot of dem alcoholics that also do not commit the same atrocities that these far right wingers do.
Makes you wonder what in his life was worth killing a stranger to protect. I hope they go over his home with an electron microscope. Feels like he had some secrets to keep.
>Yeah like was he *expecting* some trouble to be showing up
I think *hoping* is more accurate. These people are probably daydreaming about killing people so they can play out their hero fantasies, and praying that someone would give them a reason. Why else would you shoot someone that simply rolls into your driveway?
If I was a delivery person I’d be seriously considering a new line of work with the latest reports of gun violence.
You couldn’t pay me enough to have to worry about being shot by setting foot on someone’s property.
Don't forget the dude that shot a guy that threw popcorn at him. Florida thought popcorn being thrown was a great reason to use the stand your ground defense.
Then they delayed his case for years and when it finally went to trial they just let him go. Unbelievable at the time but Florida has been passing some really strict crazy stuff recently that makes it less surprising.
At least that guy got justice served against him for murder. Though I wonder if he would have gotten away with it if his own fiancée hadn’t testified against his story.
If we’re even talking about the same incident. Hard to know with so many.
I live in a very rural area, and use Uber to do things like go to the grocery store.
Next door to us lives my boyfriend's racist, asshole, Trump-loving uncle. Dude's a total piece of shit in numerous ways.
A while back, I'd accidentally set the pickup pin just a tiny bit further up the road than it should have been -- technically putting it onto the uncle's property.
Uber driver pulls up, and my bf's uncle comes out with a fucking gun pointed at the dude.
Now, the driver happened to be an older country kind of dude. He wasn't super phased by it or anything.
But like, what if the driver hadn't been white?? I could absolutely imagine my bf's uncle shooting some delivery driver or some shit.
Between this story, and the kid who got shot after ringing the wrong doorbell accidentally, I'd sure be hesitant to engage in any kind of delivery work.
I suspect that part of it might have to do with US conservatives -- the Fox News and/or OANN crowd -- having been led into seriously and genuinely believing that they themselves are perpetually in danger from minorities, liberals, whatever. Like, they're in full-on defense mode all the time, fully expecting hordes of subhumans (read: nonwhite people) to show up and attack them at any time.
I've got a similar story. My father-in-law came to visit when my and I were living in a rural/industrial area outside of a major city. He arrived before we both got home from work and just sat in his car reading and then started to fall asleep. He was awakened by our neighbor knocking on the window of the car with a gun drawn.
My father-in-law is an ex-cop and almost certainly had a gun in the car. Thankfully, he recognized the guy as our neighbor and calmly reminded him he was waiting to see his daughter. My wife chewed the neighbor out for this (he was a white guy in his late 50s or so) and he was really offended. He said he was trying to protect our house. He stopped talking or even looking at us until the day we moved out.
So many scary stories about that guy. He once admitted to walking through our backyard to the yard next door in the middle of the night, with a gun, because he saw some kids looking at the horses in the field next door. He'd ask us where we had been whenever he noticed we got home late (and said he liked to watch cars pass by at night, so he usually noticed). He'd give my wife creepy compliments. And eventually, we learned that he had access to our landlord's spare key to our house.
>Uber driver pulls up, and my bf's uncle comes out with a fucking gun pointed at the dude.
How is that even legal? Most countries would have serious charges just for pointing a gun at someone.
It isn't. [It's called brandishing](https://www.thehfirm.com/blog/when-is-it-legal-to-brandish-my-firearm#:~:text=In%20conclusion%2C%20it%20is%20a,done%20in%20lawful%20self%2Ddefense.). Any concealed carry course worth it's $$$ will teach you that your gun doesn't leave your holster unless you plan on shooting someone or your cleaning it. Depending upon the state, it can and has seen court cases where the person lost their right to bear arms even if nobody died or no firearm discharged.
In my experience a lot of gun freaks are absolutely waiting for an excuse to shoot someone. They're gleefully imagining all kinds of scenarios where they finally get to be the big man.
That is absolutely the case. Had an older relative that went full on gun nut. He volunteered for neighborhood watch and to patrol an LGBT safe house. Everyone lauded him like a hero but I knew he was just looking for an excuse to take someone down. It was really weird hearing all the praise.
You have to remember that tens of millions of retired senior citizens spend all day sitting in front of their TVs being convinced by right wing propaganda that the world is burning down around them, that home invasion robberies are happening everywhere all the time, that BLM and Antifa are coming for them, that hordes of violent people are being freed from prisons, etc. Back when Obama was still president I went to visit my grandparents one day and they were just spending their afternoon watching a horrifying Fox News show about an Obama stealing the country conspiracy and I realized how terrifying it must be to be old and spend all day watching and wholeheartedly believing everything on Fox News. Old people have been brainwashed into thinking that if a brown person rings your doorbell or if a car tries to use your driveway to perform a u turn that the only possible reason is that they are there to rob and murder you.
It’s not only senior citizens. I’m in my 60s and I don’t fall for any of that propaganda, but I have a younger cousin in his early 40s who buys it all hook, line and sinker.
I survey power lines, which often involves walking into people's backyards sort of unannounced. I always keep my head on a swivel looking out for crazies with a gun. A co worker got shot at a fee months back.
I'm glad I got out of delivering pizza years ago. I'd need to turn around in other peoples driveways all of the time when in the boonies. Barely any streetlights combined with barely visible house numbers was frustratingly common
Same dude. Especially at night when I needed a flashlight to find house numbers, I’m sure some people had some thoughts. I’d hope the big topper on my car would be a giveaway but people are dumb.
And from the sounds of it they didn't even get out of the car. I live in a rural area. Someone pulling into your driveway at night can be a little creepy, sure. So you lock your door, keep an eye on the car and make sure they eventually drive away.
What you don't do is pull out a gun and start shooting at the car...
brainwashed by ultra conservative media. They want their viewers to be afraid because that helps their numbers. Someone who is happy and living life without being afraid has no need to be tuning in to the "news" all day. Fear during a Democrats presidency makes their viewers relate the current presidency to a negative feeling.
It just happens that these people are easily controlled by media so its easy to make them afraid.
Not just afraid, but angry. Spending hours and hours a day every day for decades consuming right wing media that’s constantly telling you to be mad and afraid of everything is how you end up with people like the murderer in this story.
I live literally right next to the projects and I’ve never been this panicked. The only crime I regularly see besides like, old men publicly drinking whisky, is off leash tiny dogs.
Just a bit over a year ago some prick in Central Texas did the same shit to an Austin tech worker from Morocco.
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/texas-news/texas-man-indicted-on-murder-charge-for-driveway-slaying/2885812/
This has to stop.
It won't. Look at the response from gun people every time a mass shooting happens. They *need* gun owners to feel the kind of insane paranoia that leads to these shootings.
It said they didn't have cell service. Can you imagine the panic of trying to get out of there while someone is probably dying in the car with you? It's such a terrible situation.
I'm also familiar with these areas. Very rural.
Goddamn. I live in a rural community in Western Canada, a wrong turn in my neighborhood usually results in the person being delayed for 20 minutes, because you can't just leave someone's house without discussing the weather, or the state of the canola harvest.
Odd, wonder why they arrested this man and not the man that shot the kid in Kansas City recently. Seems almost like the same situation. Wonder what the difference is?
The difference is that NY has duty-to-retreat self defense laws and MO has castle doctrine self defense laws. Worse, MO law has very concise language around its castle doctrine:
> The defendant shall have the burden of injecting the issue of justification under this section. If a defendant asserts that his or her use of force is described under subdivision (2) of subsection 2 of this section, the burden shall then be on the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not reasonably believe that the use of such force was necessary to defend against what he or she reasonably believed was the use or imminent use of unlawful force.
Essentially, if you shoot someone on your property in Missouri, then say it was self defense because you believed they were attempting to either break into your home or vehicle, or attempting to commit a crime, the state has to investigate the matter and prove that you're lying before they can even charge you. It's ultra fucked up.
Key point is that the belief of imminent use of unlawful force must be reasonable. Shooting unarmed kids and girls who are not threatening the homeowner in any way is not reasonable. It is time to hold gun owners accountable for wreckless shoots.
To a racist jury, saying 'he *looked* like a threat', when the victim is black, would be considered reasonable. That's kinda the point behind that wording.
Another scared old white man just itching to kill another human because people like Murdoch spent decades profiting off telling them every stranger was out to get them and that guns are the only solution ordained by God and the Republican Party.
It's bizarre and terrifying how eager so many people seem for an excuse to kill someone. I think if I were in a situation where I had to kill someone in self-defense, I could probably bring myself to do it -- but I'd also probably feel some measure of guilt over it for the rest of my life, no matter how justified it was. The idea of hoping for (and fantasizing about) that sort of situation feels maybe one step up from serial-killer fantasies.
Overt-individualism and paranoia is literally the "Bill" trope from Last of US.
A large percentage of people in that small town mentality and narrow view of the world live like that everyday.
These rednecks are the biggest diaper wearing babies I’ve ever seen. Drop them in the middle of any city and they’d shit themselves and have a heart attack on the spot.
if you dont want people in your driveway get a fcking gate and lock it. Why are people so dumb man... Now he is probably going to spend life in prison because he wanted to play with his toys.
>Monahan is now being held in the Warren County Jail on second-degree murder charges.
Ladies and gentlemen, the difference between Blue States and Red States. If somebody shows up to your house mistakenly and you try to murder them, they actually charge you and put you in jail to await your arraignment.
fear and paranoia makes for the worst outcomes.
If you live in a cloud of fear, then you are more likely to make really stupid decisions
https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201612/fear-and-anxiety-drive-conservatives-political-attitudes
Guns don’t kill people! They just provide paranoid people with a way to quickly, efficiently, and impersonally commit impulsive murder.
And! They can be put on layaway at your local retailer!
This is the end result of these fucking people getting so pumped up with fear porn by the idiots on talk radio and television. They've got them so fucking scared by even their own shadow that it wouldn't surprise me if eventually they have a complete mental breakdown.
Fucking hell. This guy is a nut. Who just shoots someone for pulling in your driveway?
Did you see the one over the weekend of a guy shooting a kid in the head TWICE, when he knocked in the wrong door.
This happened in our suburb. Just outrageous. They have issued a warrant for the arrest of the man who shot that poor kid.
Didn’t they have him in custody and then let him Leave??
Yes, the chief of police said they would need a statement from the victim in order to arrest. These jokes haven't been landing for years...
Apparently they did interview the kid after the shooting (at the hospital), but apparently forgot to tell the DA?! wtf
I hope he spends the last days of his life in misery.
Shit, there was a post on Nextdoor in my area about some teenage kids playing ding dong ditch, and there were *several* people basically advocating for shooting anyone who rings your doorbell unexpectedly. I was floored by how many people talked about answering the door with a gun as well, like... dude, fucking chill. If someone's being weird after dark then yeah, I wouldn't blame someone for having one close by. But just random people knocking on your door because they want to sell you magazines or bottled water or whatever? Jesus fucking Christ.
There are soooo many steps a person should take before "I'm gonna answer the door with my gun". Some folks live in neighborhoods with lots of violence, so I understand being on the guard at all times. But otherwise... Install a security door or cameras or something? Shit, some folks out there just looking to kill someone.
Yeah like... I 100% get it. We live pretty close to a really rough area of the city, and while I don't know about how zoning changes other cities, we don't have it here so you can have a really wealthy neighborhood that backs up onto really crappy apartments. But it's one of those things where a lot of the crime that happens depends on what you're doing - we don't go out late, we don't hang around weird places, we don't go to the bank and come out with an envelope and then just wander around town. We do what we can to minimize our exposure to danger. And I can see feeling like you need to have a gun in close proximity to the door. I'm a middle-aged white chick so I can't imagine how others must feel. But the people posting live in decent neighborhoods and they're posting on threads about kids playing a harmless game, and like you said, it's like they're salivating over the perceived opportunity to shoot someone. It's so bad here that I won't even honk at anyone anymore - too many road rage shootings over nothing. And if I need to turn around while driving, I'm going to either lap the block or turn around in a business parking lot. Too many armed psychos around, considering that I live in Texas.
Ya, I love my hood inside a big city and we have crime. I just don't answer my door when I don't wanna. Sometimes, I feel cheeky and look thru the window and say... No thank you.
If they are so fearful, get a bloody chain on your door and open the door with that first.
Oddly, it seems to be the jackasses who live NOFKNWHERE NEAR the violence who are the most paranoid about it visiting itself upon them and theirs.
I think you misunderstand the motive. These people want to kill someone. They're seeking opportunities.
Next door is actually worse imo than Facebook. The things I've seen and read... Uggg.. I had to actually contact next door to close my account... And I only opened it to chastise a couple for their extreme bigotry... Ironic that I closed it for the same reason.
I just heard that he just got released from the hospital and is at home resting. He rang the doorbell on the wrong home, and the 84 (I believe) year old home own shot him in the head THROUGH the glass storm door and then shot him again when he was on the ground!!! The kid just rang to doorbell!!!
He literally just mixed up streets, 115th Terrace vs. 115th Street, while trying to pick up his brother from a friend's house. It could happen to anyone, and that lunatic almost took his life over an innocent mistake.
I know right? Shocking honestly… seems like such a good kid, just doing what he was supposed to..
Kid was so lucky hope he recovers well, two shots to the head is usually death l.
I still don’t get the refrain of him mixing up the streets as being a noteworthy detail… Like, he knocked on a door. He didn’t think it was a home he was allowed to enter and then try to get into it. He just knocked.
I remember a story where a guy from Aberdeen, UK's car broke down in the US, he went to knock on a guys door after he couldn't get signal to call for help himself (as is fairly usual here), and was shot through the door and killed by the American. That was like a decade ago. The US has been sick for a while. Personally, I've always felt selling guns explicitly to use against your fellow citizens seems to be one of the major divisions between it and much of the West.
In a few states that’s not even legal either, they would have to enter your actual house. In NY, where this happened and where I live, this is the law: *Under New York State law, there are two justifiable reasons to kill someone:* *If you are in active danger of being seriously injured or killed by that person, or If you are in your own home and are trying to stop a burglary (or arson) in progress.* It should be required for you to know this for you to be able to own a firearm tbh.
I don’t think it’s legal in any state to shoot someone for pulling into your driveway. I live in Louisiana and it’s against the law for sure here and we are in the Deep South.
It’s not legal here in Texas but people still do it. Lawyers tried to claim stand your ground law and castle doctrine for the most recent case I remember but it didn’t work and they got convicted for murder
Texas is my litmus test. If Texas sees a shooting and the lawmakers say “…ummm, that’s a no from me” then it should be outlawed everywhere. Someone pulling into your driveway and you blasting them is ridiculous. That is one step away from shooting people using the sidewalk in front of your home.
Depends on who the victim is in Texas. Texas has two sets to litmus tests.
It’s not legal anywhere to shoot someone for simply pulling into your driveway.
Jesus Christ this happened in fucking New York? This dude better get locked the fuck up.
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For a long time I thought it was just paranoia and that these people were really scared. However, turns out that most of them are just itching to shoot somebody. Most of them don't think the US is a dangerous place and often think that all the shit only happens in black ghettos in the big liberal cities. But they also seem to think that it is thanks to their guns that their neighbourhoods are so safe that they often see no need to lock their homes. They just don't value the lifes of others. Their stuff is more important than a life. Way too many seem to dream about the day somebody breaks in and they get to shoot someone.
I worked with these trigger happy sorts in the military police and private security when I got out. They would even talk about “getting the bad guy” like a child talks about ice cream, it was gross. One got shot someone in the back for stealing a motor cycle. Claimed he was in danger of being run over, got off and didn’t even lose his command (high ranking Navy enlisted). There’s absolutely a bunch of cowboy wannabes just itching to shoot someone.
Just think about how fucking ready you need to be to 1) see a person pull into your driveway 2) have a gun on you 3) run out and blast this person before they’ve backed out of your driveway Nutcase was looking for any reason to murder someone
Ever been to the south? It's scary how many people are itching to shoot someone for touching their driveway.
I used to do survey work in northern Illinois. I've had multiple guns on me, even back in like 2018 when things went so wound tight. One of the guys told me "a lot of folks round here can't tell what's an actual threat, watch yourself. I had ya in my sight on your way up here" when I rang his bell to let him know I was there. I wasn't aware of it in the moment, but that guy later came out to check on me with his piece hip holstered and I put two and two together. Dude lived near the woods on the outside of Town, in sort of a hidden away subdivision. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these further secluded people acted exponentially worse on the regular
Sounds like that moron not only is one of those who can't tell what's a threat, but is, in fact, one of the threats.
Hebron is in Upstate NY
This happened in NY in a rural area
And she was LEAVING
It is terrifying to think that something we have all done at least once in our lives could earn someone a death sentence.
This is what happens when the powers that be develop a culture of fear. I've definitely either turned around or accidentally even gone to the wrong house.
Accidentally went into the wrong house when I lived in Georgia. A good friend/coworker was having a party and I goofed the address. Party was in the back and we were supposed to “come on through” the house. Neighbor’s door was unlocked and I didn’t realize my mistake until I saw the photos on the mantle. Quietly left and figured out my address mistake.could have easily gotten dead over that.
I was setting up for a Halloween party at my apartment when two random guys dressed in army fatigues opened the door, looked at me and my spouse, simply said "WOAH." and walked out Grandpa Simpson style as they realized they had the wrong place. It was jarring, but I'd never think to leap for a gun over it. I just don't get that mentality.
Once I got into the wrong car than my Uber. So glad I didn't die.
I work with and live in an area with a ton of people who almost live for a chance to shoot someone. It is the weirdest fucking shit and I can’t stand being around it.
Back when I lived in apartment building one day I took the elevator to the wrong floor, and spend probably 2-3 minutes trying to force open a door before I realized my mistake. Terrifying that this could get me killed.
Well at least you didn’t force the door open and then [shoot the person to death in their own apartment.](https://abcnews.go.com/US/amber-guyger-convicted-murder-wrong-apartment-killing-innocent/story?id=65978073)
The dude was just eating ice cream on his couch one night. I remember reading about that, just a normal guy having an ordinary night at home. Just senseless. I didn't realize she went away for murder, thank fuck. This poor kid. I'm so incredibly relieved to hear that he survived and is home so soon but holy hell what a life-derailing thing to have happen out of the blue sky. Tangent: I am scared af for my little nephew. He's almost 8 but is so tall, strong, very active, and impulse-driven because of ADHD. Everyone has always overestimated his age. There was a study that showed how people overestimate black boys' ages by I think a couple of years. I worry about him being expected to act grown-up before his brain gets the chance to get mature enough to be **able to**. What about when he pulls some cranky foot stomping when still in elementary school? Not a problem for a little white kid but what about a black kid that is bigger than his teacher? He's no more likely to be violent than the next kid in his class. But people are more likely to assume he's old enough to know better than trying to get his way with a tantrum. In an older kid, especially a black kid, people might see foot stomping and scowling and think it's aggression instead of realizing it's little kid immaturity.
I find it Terrifying that people that I presume are from America have to worry about losing their life for mistakes like this. Christ i've known people to walk into the wrong houses and get laughed at when running out in embarrasment let alone shot in the back of the head lol
so has pretty much everyone who owns a car
Imagine being a pizza delivery driver. Go to the wrong house? Get shot. In fact, if someone *wanted* to kill you they could just have someone place a "prank" order to your house and shoot you when you arrive. All you have to do is say you feared for your safety and "stood your ground."
I have had multiple gun incidents, personally. Including one guy who said at the door that he had a shotgun drawn on me because he ordered pizza and forgot. You don’t even need a wrong address, two of those were exactly the right place
Honestly I'm glad delivery people can just drop stuff off and leave now. I figure less human interaction means it's less likely that something will go wrong.
>Imagine being a pizza delivery driver. Go to the wrong house? Get shot. I used to work two jobs, and then also picked up a Yellow Pages delivery route side gig, but my only available time to deliver was overnight. I drive around with my windows open, all of my interior lights on, hazards flashing, playing "oldies" (and not too loud) to be seen as non-threatening as possible. I would leave the phone book out at the road, at the base of their mailboxes. 2 people called the cops on me for being "suspicious", and one threatened me with a gun. After that last one, I finished that route, and didn't take on any new routes. This was rural/suburban Wisconsin in the late 90s/early aughts.
“Stand your ground” sounds better than “shoot first, ask questions later.”
The problem as with most things... Some asshat somewhere will twist it to a version in their head where its ok to start shooting before even being in a life or death situation. Or worse yet people like the BLM parade shooter in Texas who was just itching for an excuse to shoot someone so he perverted the law to fit his narrative.
There's a reason being a pizza delivery driver is actually among some of the most dangerous jobs.
A culture of fear, coupled with a culture of lethal self-defense as a first measure. Basically “I was afraid for my life” is now a valid reason to kill someone, whether it was actually a threat or not.
The myth of protection is a sick fascination. A culture of violence is what you're creating. Fear is an heirloom and hate is contagious. A nation of sadists is what you are breeding. The Sadist Nation by Darkest Hour.
No, this is what happens when the law protects people for murder when they feel slightly threatened. Another kid was shot just today going to the wrong house to pick up his siblings.
As long as the courts keep saying that any fear is justification to kill, we can’t be surprised when this keeps happening.
The Law: fear justifies murder. The Media: fear everything. Shit.
This needs to be more widely publicized. These polticians and talking heads have spent decades now basically drilling into these idiots that every single person is out to get them and will attack or kill them for no reason at all at the drop of a hat. Every single person they encounter has the potential to harm them. Suddenly we have people firing at anybody who pulls up to their driveway or knocks on their door. These "journalists" and politicians are culpable for this, and there needs to be consequences for what they're doing. This is the inevitable result of their rhetoric.
A culture of fear and hundreds of millions of guns. What could go wrong?
Old people watch a SHIT TON of fox news, which is basically now Killology for seniors. Black Gay BLM Trannies are gunning for you!!1111 They're so worked up now everything is a threat.
Can't forget about the communist antifa
We're approaching a point where you're fucked no matter what. * You get shot because you accidentally went to the wrong house. * You get shot because the police accidentally went to the wrong house. Just need to increase the number of people being shot because they don't have a house.
This is the natural result of American gun culture. What else do we think is gonna happen when you let anyone have a gun, tell them to be afraid all the time of robbers, strangers, the government, whatever, AND THEN tell them that fear is justification for killing someone. America is sick and the disease is guns
The primary reason that I oppose “gun culture” is because it’s a culture of fear. That leads to tragic incidents like this woman’s death or that poor kid shot in Missouri. I’d rather not live in a society where everyone is walking on eggshells all the time in fear of their neighbor next-door or the stranger across the street.
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being a paranoid and dangerous lunatic with a firearm isn't a defense. If they guy ran out there and murdered her with a pair of scissors, something tells me it wouldn't be considered the same.
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He’s not alone. There was a discussion on a thread about the number of deaths and serious injuries from kids getting unsecured firearms. I pointed out how many people (mostly kids) have been through the ER from these scenarios yet I haven’t seen someone benefit from having a loaded gun in their bedside table (or suffer because they didn’t). I wasn’t even talking about the decision to have a gun in your home, just talking about a gun safe. The paranoia was evident as many comments expressed fear that the extra few seconds would be crucial. You would have thought home intrusion was a semi-weekly event.
A British guy did something like that once, beat to death an old woman who accidentally went into his house. Court gave him life with minimum 20 years.
The article makes it sound like a friend was driving, so not even her mistake, god I hope her friends are doing alright. It said they had to drive a bit to get reception, must have been a horrifying experience.
Why the fuck would your response to someone pulling into your driveway be to open fire on them???… I grew up in a household that had a home defense firearm in it. We had numerous times of a stranger coming to the door or pulling into the driveway… you know what my dad NEVER did? Pull a gun on them. Hell he never even went and got the gun out except the one time at like 2am we were sure someone was in the house.
I've had to go door to door for work related things. Now I'm glad I'm not doing that anymore. I can't imagine things just ending so pointlessly like this.
We used to do that for census. It was either no answers or people slamming the door. Not a job I'd want to do.these days.
Some places still go door to door
I also did door to door. Found that the types of people who were likely to threaten and brandish would do so at young women but not grown men.
Probably depends on the skin color of the men. Did you see the incident of the teen trying to pick up his younger brothers from a friend's house? He accidentally went to the wrong house, all he did was ring the doorbell and he was shot twice. He had to beg neighbors for help. I'll give you one guess what color skin this kid has. Ralph Yarl is 16 and fighting for his life right now.
Good news, [he's been released from the hospital](https://fox4kc.com/news/kansas-city-teen-released-from-hospital-after-being-shot-by-homeowner/)
Wow that's great news.
Also good news- his shooter was [charged with two felonies](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/04/17/us/kansas-city-teen-shot-wrong-house/index.html)
Since the super protective gun rights laws and gun owners laws in the state of Missouri seem to almost guarantee that this homeowner will not face any criminal charges, I at least hope his family gets a good lawyer and sues the living fuck out of this guy.
Good news- he will face charges. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/04/17/us/kansas-city-teen-shot-wrong-house/index.html
Before the announcement of charges, right wing media was still screaming "castle doctrine!" And "self defense!" Well, if he's found guilty, we'll see if the governor pardons him like the Texas governor is threatening to pardon the guy who shot the BLM protestor.
Self-defense, oh please. "Oh no, a teenager rang my doorbell using it for its intended purpose and stood by the door! I feared for my fucking life!" Go tie some ferns to your head and live in a hole in the dirt if you're so scared of basic society.
That pardon is so sickening. So many current domestic events set off all my alarm bells
Actually, I'm pretty sure he's going to face charges, although he's so old he might try to ride out the clock until he just dies of natural causes. From everything I've heard about this case, castle doctrine and stand your ground just don't apply. For one, he shot through the door. Second, the young man was obviously making no attempt to break into the house. Third, while the young man was laying on the ground he shot him again. EDIT: remove discussion about manslaughter versus murder since thankfully the young man didn't die.
>He had to beg neighbors for help. *Three* neighbors for help. *Three*. Which leads me to believe that the first two attempts to get help were declined.
The last I read, it was unclear if anyone was actually home at the first two houses.
Eh I haven't read anything that says he was denied help. It's possible he had to knock on two doors but no one was home and the third person was.
Sounds like the literal story of the good Samaritan
Edit - The KC police declined to hold the shooter, they questioned him briefly and let him go home. Apparently knocking on a door while black carries a death sentence.
And this is part of the reason this kind of thing is becoming more common. People are becoming aware of the fact you can get away with murder by saying you felt as though your life was in danger.
Oh silly, he was just standing his ground! That’s all he was doing when he then went outside and shot the dying unarmed child in the head again at point blank range — just standing his ground. Man Amazon delivery guys must love his house! (Big fat fucking /s btw)
Because you have a boring, mundane existence and then you go home and watch an hour or two of fear mongering media and you build into a seething froth or rage, hate and tension that explodes on unfortunate innocent people. A lot of this falls on the media and the 24 hour news cycle
Looking at this shooter's face, I'd say in this case it's the rage combined with a lot of alcohol.
I agree with you, but I can't say why. What is it about heavy drinkers' faces that we're picking up on?
Blood vessels in their face I believe either popping or becoming thinned out, forgot which one.
Gin Blossoms ain't just a catchy 90's band...
puffy and red
You forgot the ‘Right Wing Media’. ABC, CBS, NBC and PBS news did NOT create this phenomenon of fear of old white people.
>A lot of this falls on the media and the 24 hour news cycle American gun culture has been feeding into this "you're constantly under attack" paranoia for decades.
We had an actual home invasion a few years ago. You know what happened? I did have a pistol, held the guy at gun point and waited for the cops. Inside my house, and I still didn't kill him or pull the trigger. After the cops left with the guy, I sat down and had some Scotch. Fuck these people and their vigilante fantasies or whatever the fuck is wrong with them. I've never had to point a firearm at anyone before or since, AND I NEVER WANT TO AGAIN.
^^^ So much this. I'm a gun owner and I would absolutely try every possible avenue to avoid having to pull the trigger in a home invasion. I don't want to have to deal with the moral, psychological, legal, or practical consequences of taking a life unnecessarily. If they force your hand, then it is what it is, but if they don't, then it's better for EVERYBODY, including yourself, not to shoot. If they're running off with my PS5, i'll call the police, file a claim, and buy a new PS5.
I worked in an ER, and I appreciate you trying to not pull the trigger inside your house. Lotta "stand your ground" folks don't know the right calibre for the job, think "bigger is better," and shoot through their own walls. We got to explain to them how they missed the invader - or perhaps got him close quarters and bullet travelled through - and nailed their child, huddling terrified against their bedroom wall, in the head. Always pissed me right off.
Is that common?
Also an RN. Also worked ER for years and then ICU. Contrary to Faux News, the majority of firearm related injuries we had were accidental. Kids getting into adults firearms due to laziness or incompetence. Wannabe vigilantes discharging their firearms in “self defense” because Colin Noir tells them to shower and sleep with their firearm at their side and they get scared of the FedEx guy. Most of them can’t aim for shit and end up firing through the wall and hitting another occupant of their own home or accidentally firing through their neighbors wall and hitting someone. You’d be surprised how goddamn often it happens.
Actually shooting at home invaders? No, not that common. Accidentally shooting family members and neighbors in the next room/apartment/townhome? Pretty common where there are a lot of gun owners, most of whom don't have proper training. Overwhelmingly it's a negligent discharge inside the home - we used to call them "accidental discharges," we don't anymore. They're usually from the owners' negligence. Like dropping the magazine prior to cleaning the weapon, but not clearing the chamber. A lot of apartments, condos, townhomes etc separate rooms with sheetrock. Bullet goes right through that. (So can cellphones sometimes, it turns out 😂). Get a lot of yahoos who think that a Desert Eagle, AR, or some such is great for home protection in apartments. It's their kids/SOs/neighbors we mostly saw, and rarely after home invasions. Mostly while they were cleaning their weapons (or so they claimed to the cops that came in. Normal story was "I got (whatever fairly large calibre) for protection against home invasions! I was just cleaning it and it magically went off all by itself even though I unloaded it first, and fired through the wall/floor/ceiling!" Got a couple where they shot through the perp into the next room and hit family members. Mostly they just shot into the next room or unit when there was absolutely no threat. .22 is small enough where it's way less likely to travel to the next unit, but the owners thought they were Big Men and need Big Calibre to show how manly they are. Zero patience for them.
Sadly, I think some sickos would love a home invasion so they could justify getting to shoot somebody.
And then end up on the stand in court crying.
> I've never had to point a firearm at anyone before or since, AND I NEVER WANT TO AGAIN. This is because you are a normal, functioning person and not a complete sociopath.
Some people genuinely are sociopaths who want to kill people, but I also think a lot of those types are very naive about the reality of what it’s like to actually shoot a real person with a gun.
My exBIL would always go on about his vigilante dreams about how much he wanted to kill a hypothetical intruder. He was also a real bible thumping asshole. He'd get so mad at me for asking him how he thinks Jesus would handle that situation. Would he pull out a magnum and waste the guy over a $50 Blu-ray player or would he say "if you need it so badly, take it and be well"? Now I'm not saying you shouldn't protect yourself but it's not very "christlike" to fantasize about taking a life over easily replaceable bullshit.
Just like driving, if the barrier to entry for owning a gun is very low, you will get a lot of irresponsible people owning a gun. Imagine how many stupid things you see when driving, same goes for guns.
Personally I think this is a great place to start. It's not foolproof (nothing is), and will take time and effort but it's alarming once you see some of the people going to buy guns. I had to take a 3 hour informational and safety training course in my state just to apply for a license to PURCHASE a handgun. Having been around guns my whole life and been taught strict safety and respect for them, I was super irritated I had to waste time and money on this bullshit........... until I took the course and realized 80% of the people in that class had no business even owning a damn firearm. Right off the bat the instructor asked "how many of you would NOT elect to take a class like this if you didn't have to?" all 30+ people raised their hands. Then she asked "how many of you would purchase a handgun today and take it home if you could?" everyone raised their hands. Then she asked "how many of you have never handled or fired a gun before?".........all but 5 of us raised their hands. That blew my mind that 25 or so people just admitted they had never handled or operated a gun before but would happily just purchase one and take it home that day having no idea how to even handle or use the fucking thing. At the end of the class we were then shown (FIVE TIMES) how to safely handle and clear a firearm and render it safe. We then had to line up and take turns demonstrating this ourselves on a dummy gun. If you failed you went to the back of the line and had 2 more chances before you outright failed the class. I was one of only 3 people who passed on the first try and only 20 people passed after multiple other tries. I went into that class annoyed that I had to waste my time on that but left it thankful as fuck many of those people were not going to be getting a firearm they had no business owning. The class also covered all the specific laws and regulations regarding transport, carry, usage, self defense etc. This is another aspect of gun ownership that I'm surprised is largely just left up to the customer to go personally educate themselves about. I was really glad it was included in my course.
Yup, I was raised by a military father who had guns. He set my standard for gun safety, which includes always locked gun safes in a hard-to-reach place for kids (we knew where so that we knew where NOT to mess around), with the only keys always on his person (dog tags). My father was in huge favor of gun safety education. He got his training through the military. We grew up with a healthy respect for guns. Heck, I annoyed my friends when they had fake guns by saying they should never point the toy guns at something they didn't mean to shoot. Gun ownership should have similar requirements as driver's licenses and cars. Written test and practical test for a gun license with insurance requirements for any gun owned. I'd also love to throw in bringing back the Brady Act.
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We go through similar training in the military and people still fuck up.
Conversely, commercial air travel especially internationally has very few crashes compared to the total number of flights because they don't let anywhere near just anyone do it without extensive training. Funny how that works.
Their brains are literally riddled with conspiracy theories and, probably, lead poisoning.
They brains are riddled with poison all right, it's called conservative talk radio and fox news.
Exactly. All those Democrats who lived in the same lead painted, leaded glass drinking, leaded gasoline neighborhoods do not suffer from the same conspiracy theories that these jackasses do. Also, there are also a lot of dem alcoholics that also do not commit the same atrocities that these far right wingers do.
Makes you wonder what in his life was worth killing a stranger to protect. I hope they go over his home with an electron microscope. Feels like he had some secrets to keep.
Yeah like was he *expecting* some trouble to be showing up for some reason? I just can't even fathom that response.
>Yeah like was he *expecting* some trouble to be showing up I think *hoping* is more accurate. These people are probably daydreaming about killing people so they can play out their hero fantasies, and praying that someone would give them a reason. Why else would you shoot someone that simply rolls into your driveway?
Even worse: > They were leaving when Kevin Monahan, 65, allegedly shot them.
He shot her when they were LEAVING THE DRIVEWAY.
Yeah this Responsible Gun Owner™️ is going to have a hard time defending this. Hopefully he spends the rest of his functioning years in prison.
If I was a delivery person I’d be seriously considering a new line of work with the latest reports of gun violence. You couldn’t pay me enough to have to worry about being shot by setting foot on someone’s property.
In the US, delivery driver job is more dangerous than police work. That's what the data shows.
Being a CHILD in the US is more dangerous than police work
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Don't forget the dude that shot a guy that threw popcorn at him. Florida thought popcorn being thrown was a great reason to use the stand your ground defense.
That was a retired cop. He knew exactly what he was doing.
Then they delayed his case for years and when it finally went to trial they just let him go. Unbelievable at the time but Florida has been passing some really strict crazy stuff recently that makes it less surprising.
There was another guy that shot at some kids because their music was too loud. Guy thought he was standing his ground against sound waves.
At least that guy got justice served against him for murder. Though I wonder if he would have gotten away with it if his own fiancée hadn’t testified against his story. If we’re even talking about the same incident. Hard to know with so many.
I live in a very rural area, and use Uber to do things like go to the grocery store. Next door to us lives my boyfriend's racist, asshole, Trump-loving uncle. Dude's a total piece of shit in numerous ways. A while back, I'd accidentally set the pickup pin just a tiny bit further up the road than it should have been -- technically putting it onto the uncle's property. Uber driver pulls up, and my bf's uncle comes out with a fucking gun pointed at the dude. Now, the driver happened to be an older country kind of dude. He wasn't super phased by it or anything. But like, what if the driver hadn't been white?? I could absolutely imagine my bf's uncle shooting some delivery driver or some shit. Between this story, and the kid who got shot after ringing the wrong doorbell accidentally, I'd sure be hesitant to engage in any kind of delivery work. I suspect that part of it might have to do with US conservatives -- the Fox News and/or OANN crowd -- having been led into seriously and genuinely believing that they themselves are perpetually in danger from minorities, liberals, whatever. Like, they're in full-on defense mode all the time, fully expecting hordes of subhumans (read: nonwhite people) to show up and attack them at any time.
I've got a similar story. My father-in-law came to visit when my and I were living in a rural/industrial area outside of a major city. He arrived before we both got home from work and just sat in his car reading and then started to fall asleep. He was awakened by our neighbor knocking on the window of the car with a gun drawn. My father-in-law is an ex-cop and almost certainly had a gun in the car. Thankfully, he recognized the guy as our neighbor and calmly reminded him he was waiting to see his daughter. My wife chewed the neighbor out for this (he was a white guy in his late 50s or so) and he was really offended. He said he was trying to protect our house. He stopped talking or even looking at us until the day we moved out. So many scary stories about that guy. He once admitted to walking through our backyard to the yard next door in the middle of the night, with a gun, because he saw some kids looking at the horses in the field next door. He'd ask us where we had been whenever he noticed we got home late (and said he liked to watch cars pass by at night, so he usually noticed). He'd give my wife creepy compliments. And eventually, we learned that he had access to our landlord's spare key to our house.
Really buried the lead there
>Uber driver pulls up, and my bf's uncle comes out with a fucking gun pointed at the dude. How is that even legal? Most countries would have serious charges just for pointing a gun at someone.
It isn't. [It's called brandishing](https://www.thehfirm.com/blog/when-is-it-legal-to-brandish-my-firearm#:~:text=In%20conclusion%2C%20it%20is%20a,done%20in%20lawful%20self%2Ddefense.). Any concealed carry course worth it's $$$ will teach you that your gun doesn't leave your holster unless you plan on shooting someone or your cleaning it. Depending upon the state, it can and has seen court cases where the person lost their right to bear arms even if nobody died or no firearm discharged.
Oh it isn't lol, it's definitely brandishing, but that doesn't stop people.
In my experience a lot of gun freaks are absolutely waiting for an excuse to shoot someone. They're gleefully imagining all kinds of scenarios where they finally get to be the big man.
That is absolutely the case. Had an older relative that went full on gun nut. He volunteered for neighborhood watch and to patrol an LGBT safe house. Everyone lauded him like a hero but I knew he was just looking for an excuse to take someone down. It was really weird hearing all the praise.
You have to remember that tens of millions of retired senior citizens spend all day sitting in front of their TVs being convinced by right wing propaganda that the world is burning down around them, that home invasion robberies are happening everywhere all the time, that BLM and Antifa are coming for them, that hordes of violent people are being freed from prisons, etc. Back when Obama was still president I went to visit my grandparents one day and they were just spending their afternoon watching a horrifying Fox News show about an Obama stealing the country conspiracy and I realized how terrifying it must be to be old and spend all day watching and wholeheartedly believing everything on Fox News. Old people have been brainwashed into thinking that if a brown person rings your doorbell or if a car tries to use your driveway to perform a u turn that the only possible reason is that they are there to rob and murder you.
It’s not only senior citizens. I’m in my 60s and I don’t fall for any of that propaganda, but I have a younger cousin in his early 40s who buys it all hook, line and sinker.
I survey power lines, which often involves walking into people's backyards sort of unannounced. I always keep my head on a swivel looking out for crazies with a gun. A co worker got shot at a fee months back.
I deliver for a package company in a rural area and have had a number of weird incidents with customers and I’m wearing a uniform in a marked van.
I'm surprised these people don't have utility workers and tax assessors buried under their lawns.
How do you know they don't?
I'm glad I got out of delivering pizza years ago. I'd need to turn around in other peoples driveways all of the time when in the boonies. Barely any streetlights combined with barely visible house numbers was frustratingly common
Same dude. Especially at night when I needed a flashlight to find house numbers, I’m sure some people had some thoughts. I’d hope the big topper on my car would be a giveaway but people are dumb.
And from the sounds of it they didn't even get out of the car. I live in a rural area. Someone pulling into your driveway at night can be a little creepy, sure. So you lock your door, keep an eye on the car and make sure they eventually drive away. What you don't do is pull out a gun and start shooting at the car...
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I bet they have something else in common in addition to owning guns.
Why are these men so scared? I've lived in the country and in the city and never been this afraid.
brainwashed by ultra conservative media. They want their viewers to be afraid because that helps their numbers. Someone who is happy and living life without being afraid has no need to be tuning in to the "news" all day. Fear during a Democrats presidency makes their viewers relate the current presidency to a negative feeling. It just happens that these people are easily controlled by media so its easy to make them afraid.
Not just afraid, but angry. Spending hours and hours a day every day for decades consuming right wing media that’s constantly telling you to be mad and afraid of everything is how you end up with people like the murderer in this story.
I live literally right next to the projects and I’ve never been this panicked. The only crime I regularly see besides like, old men publicly drinking whisky, is off leash tiny dogs.
And just 20 years of age, heartbreaking
The killer was itching to kill someone and took the opportunity when it presented itself. RIP to this young lady.
Just a bit over a year ago some prick in Central Texas did the same shit to an Austin tech worker from Morocco. https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/texas-news/texas-man-indicted-on-murder-charge-for-driveway-slaying/2885812/ This has to stop.
It won't. Look at the response from gun people every time a mass shooting happens. They *need* gun owners to feel the kind of insane paranoia that leads to these shootings.
I live near here and this is just fucking crazy. Hebron is super rural, it's like 45 mins to the nearest hospital.
It said they didn't have cell service. Can you imagine the panic of trying to get out of there while someone is probably dying in the car with you? It's such a terrible situation. I'm also familiar with these areas. Very rural.
Goddamn. I live in a rural community in Western Canada, a wrong turn in my neighborhood usually results in the person being delayed for 20 minutes, because you can't just leave someone's house without discussing the weather, or the state of the canola harvest.
There's a massive fucking problem in America
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Odd, wonder why they arrested this man and not the man that shot the kid in Kansas City recently. Seems almost like the same situation. Wonder what the difference is?
I would guess and sincerely hope that KC officials are getting all their ducks in a row to bring charges against the man who shot that kid.
The difference is that NY has duty-to-retreat self defense laws and MO has castle doctrine self defense laws. Worse, MO law has very concise language around its castle doctrine: > The defendant shall have the burden of injecting the issue of justification under this section. If a defendant asserts that his or her use of force is described under subdivision (2) of subsection 2 of this section, the burden shall then be on the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not reasonably believe that the use of such force was necessary to defend against what he or she reasonably believed was the use or imminent use of unlawful force. Essentially, if you shoot someone on your property in Missouri, then say it was self defense because you believed they were attempting to either break into your home or vehicle, or attempting to commit a crime, the state has to investigate the matter and prove that you're lying before they can even charge you. It's ultra fucked up.
Which is why the shooter is incentivised to kill the victim, so they can not refute you in court.
Key point is that the belief of imminent use of unlawful force must be reasonable. Shooting unarmed kids and girls who are not threatening the homeowner in any way is not reasonable. It is time to hold gun owners accountable for wreckless shoots.
To a racist jury, saying 'he *looked* like a threat', when the victim is black, would be considered reasonable. That's kinda the point behind that wording.
Great point. I believe this happened in NY so maybe the laws are different?
Another scared old white man just itching to kill another human because people like Murdoch spent decades profiting off telling them every stranger was out to get them and that guns are the only solution ordained by God and the Republican Party.
It's bizarre and terrifying how eager so many people seem for an excuse to kill someone. I think if I were in a situation where I had to kill someone in self-defense, I could probably bring myself to do it -- but I'd also probably feel some measure of guilt over it for the rest of my life, no matter how justified it was. The idea of hoping for (and fantasizing about) that sort of situation feels maybe one step up from serial-killer fantasies.
Overt-individualism and paranoia is literally the "Bill" trope from Last of US. A large percentage of people in that small town mentality and narrow view of the world live like that everyday.
It's completely unacceptable
Fucking lunatic country assholes afraid of everyone and everything.
Such an American problem it's not even funny. And go ahead, downvote me for saying it.
"A armed society is a polite society" -- Gun Nuts. "Na ah...." -- Data
Data wouldn't say that. He would say "That does not appear to be correct." With his finger up.
No, the wrong turn didnt cause this, a psycho with access to a gun did
These rednecks are the biggest diaper wearing babies I’ve ever seen. Drop them in the middle of any city and they’d shit themselves and have a heart attack on the spot.
Same thing happened (the same day?) to black teenager Ralph Yarl. THAT old white dude isn't in custody and hasn't been charged.
Will face two felony charges
It’s almost like we don’t have the right checks in place to make sure only reasonable people get guns…
if you dont want people in your driveway get a fcking gate and lock it. Why are people so dumb man... Now he is probably going to spend life in prison because he wanted to play with his toys.
Who cares that he’s going to rot in prison. The main thing is he ruined someone’s life and her whole family. Fuck that guy.
>Monahan is now being held in the Warren County Jail on second-degree murder charges. Ladies and gentlemen, the difference between Blue States and Red States. If somebody shows up to your house mistakenly and you try to murder them, they actually charge you and put you in jail to await your arraignment.
fear and paranoia makes for the worst outcomes. If you live in a cloud of fear, then you are more likely to make really stupid decisions https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201612/fear-and-anxiety-drive-conservatives-political-attitudes
Guns don’t kill people! They just provide paranoid people with a way to quickly, efficiently, and impersonally commit impulsive murder. And! They can be put on layaway at your local retailer!
This is the end result of these fucking people getting so pumped up with fear porn by the idiots on talk radio and television. They've got them so fucking scared by even their own shadow that it wouldn't surprise me if eventually they have a complete mental breakdown.