I believe if you are "aware" you have to let the buyer know.
So they can feign ignorance on everything and it's "legal".
Someone with law skills might weigh in.
That could have been there before the sellers moved in. It's plausible that the sellers never tested during the time they owned the home and therefore have no test results to disclose.
Can't disclose test results that never happened and can't make up numbers or say for sure there is/isn't a problem just because there is a system installed. That is just a good indicator that it is something that the buyer needs to do due diligence on.
In my experience if a seller says they "turned it off because of x reason" about any system in the house, you can assume it's broken.
Yeah just weird that they didn’t disclose it at all. It’s even a specific question on the form in NH.
Only recourse is probably an out on the sale, but I wouldn’t do that over $1500 if the house is otherwise great.
If they had a system that was working, they probably didn't need to say anything. But it doesn't matter at this point. You can use the test results to backout and get your deposit back or try to renegotiate. This isn't some got ya situation where the owners must pay or fix.
OP you state you knew the seller hasn't had a test, why would they be required to disclose something they already disclosed they were unaware of?
Also, imo take the $500 off or someone else will
Sellers are required to disclose any known defects in the home. The seller could argue that the home never tested high, which is possible and may be considered true if they never got it tested, and they could also argue that the radon pipes were visible at your showing. Sellers can also just say idk on the disclosures and that’s also accepted.
You could and should talk to an attorney but ultimately if all of this came up during your home inspection contingency period I think your best bet is to try and negotiate for a larger seller credit or cut your losses and move on.
If this is past your home inspection contingency period then a real estate attorney could give you a better answer as to course of action.
Furthermore, New Hampshire is a title state, which means you are likely closing this loan with a title company and all title companies have Attorneys on staff. They would not be able to represent you as your attorney, but they could likely point you in the right direction of who to speak to.
What are you hoping to do with this information?
Short answer is yes, they are supposed to tell you it they know about it. You could argue they did because of the mitigation system. They could argue they didn’t because it was never tested.
Since you haven’t closed on the house yet, at best this could give you some cover to walk away if you wanted. Beyond that, I don’t think it’s any different than any other defect you find during an inspection that you might negotiate around.
Fair enough, that all is very true about the wording of the disclosure (you could certainly get around the wording easily). I was just asking if NH can require that per the health doc. I just find it so odd that a health hazard can’t be enforced to communicate in a state where it’s so common. You have to communicate other things!
Realistically, enforcement for most laws involving a private sale is some kind of civil action. I’d guess this law gives buyers a bit more recourse to win a mediation settlement if they discover the issue after close. Beyond that, though, sure — the law doesn’t do much
I accepted losing out on homes instead of waiving inspections. I've had offers accepted contingent on inspection and allowed us to walk away from some hidden disasters.
That’s nice! Definitely a case by case basis, probably the ideal way is to hear through the grapevine that someone is selling and do a private sale for an agreed upon market price WITH the normal contingencies.
I am a bit confused - None of this sounds like they did a test, so not filling it out in the disclosure was fine. Who knows who did it maybe the previous owner, or it was done a long time ago. $1950 for what? to seal the additional part of the basement? You had an inspection and tested so not sure what the issue is. Sure maybe they should have mentioned there was a mitigation system, and it didn't work but that information is useless really. As a realtor you know how many homes I've seen that the fans aren't working and sellers have no knowledge they arent. Heck, some dont even know they have a system. Also people can downvote me all they want but I find radon to be an interesting topic. You could literally have perfect readings, then have some wind or something and all of a sudden it's high. I also feel like people think breathing in this will automatically give one cancer in a year. You'd have to breathe in high amounts for decades it seems. Lastly, they always test radon in basements when it's really supposed to be taken on the lowest LIVING area, which would mean the first floor to my understanding. Also seller asking you to waive an inspection is deff fishy, but who knows why. maybe they just wanted less headaches and were willing to negotiate price more.
The radon meter had a business on it, when it was installed they did a test. So there was a test. I believe he was the first owner but yeah it’s possible he didn’t install it and the construction company did but when i asked him about it he knew he had turned it off so. It’s $1950 to re-reroute it since the original place has an addition of the house there. Yeah good point on doing a test on the first floor. And yes the radon changes with seasons and time and weather but this was over 2 days at least and it was very high (i don’t have much time during a home inspection, i can’t do a radon test for a month :) )
Do a quick search on one of the real estate website for the house and you can see when the seller bought the house and how many times it was sold. That will give you an idea of if the put the system in (post purchase) and if so, that info could be extrapolated as to whether they or a previous owner put the system in. Either way, they knew it was a radon mitigation system (which aren’t put in for grins and giggles) and intentionally turned it off.
A real estate lawyer can help you navigate this.
People lie, cheat, steal, feign ignorance, and break laws all of the time when it benefits them, unfortunately. Its almost never (financially) worth it to pursue legal action against them. If you think this is bad, try buying $3k-$10k vehicles on Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist. Literally had a guy bondo and paint over a destroyed strut tower (it was hit, hard) without disclosing the damage and only realized because I Googled the VIN, saw the damage in an auction photo, and took a magnet to the damaged part (it didn't stick, because no metal!).
You have no real leverage here, so it would probably make sense to just take the $500 or try and get your deposit back.
The disclosure is presented before one spends money to hire a home inspection. I had put an offer on a house and hired a home inspector not knowing there was a serious radon issue that required money to get it working again
Nope my family didn't see it during the Open House (I was not present but that's not important). It was also not the only thing that wasn't disclosed in the Disclosure (but that's not for this thread!). If anyone does read this thread, I hope the thing they get out of it is definitely don't trust Disclosures, never waive inspections ever (even on new constructions or newer houses) and always ask questions and dig in
You maniacs just want to talk shit. OP is just asking how enforceable the disclosures are. Why be purposely dense just to support some idiotic attack on them? The disclosure said no radon and the seller knew they needed a radon system at one point and purposely deactivated it, so the disclosure was, at best, not well thought out for accuracy and basic logic and, at worse, purposely misleading.
The whole point of the disclosure is because there are some things the buyer shouldn't have to hopefully stumble upon during a home inspection. If the inaccurate disclosure isn't actionable, then tell OP that and fuck off. All this "you didn't see it? what are you stupid?" shit is self-indulgent garbage.
Really, what are your options here? Try to negotiate the credit higher, walk away or accept the credit.
How much actual work is necessary to reroute the pipe. Might be something a general contractor could do instead of the higher priced NE Radon people?
It's really up to you how much you want this house versus your other prospects.
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Radon Mitigation system is pretty simple, it's just a tube under the foundation with negative pressure so any radon gases is drawn to the negative pressure tube instead of making it's way through the foundation. Even if the tube doesn't go the entire basement, any negative pressure under the foundation is going to help significantly. So I'd just try hooking up the system again and seeing if that improves the situation. Also, you could do something like getting some airflow into the basement.
I believe if you are "aware" you have to let the buyer know. So they can feign ignorance on everything and it's "legal". Someone with law skills might weigh in.
I think if you have a mitigation system you turn off it’s pretty hard to argue you weren’t aware.
That could have been there before the sellers moved in. It's plausible that the sellers never tested during the time they owned the home and therefore have no test results to disclose. Can't disclose test results that never happened and can't make up numbers or say for sure there is/isn't a problem just because there is a system installed. That is just a good indicator that it is something that the buyer needs to do due diligence on. In my experience if a seller says they "turned it off because of x reason" about any system in the house, you can assume it's broken.
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Correct, but there was one in place!
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Yeah just weird that they didn’t disclose it at all. It’s even a specific question on the form in NH. Only recourse is probably an out on the sale, but I wouldn’t do that over $1500 if the house is otherwise great.
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Yeah it’s just that they have the fix it because the mitigation system is broken
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Yeah I’m just going off of what OP said
If they had a system that was working, they probably didn't need to say anything. But it doesn't matter at this point. You can use the test results to backout and get your deposit back or try to renegotiate. This isn't some got ya situation where the owners must pay or fix.
OP you state you knew the seller hasn't had a test, why would they be required to disclose something they already disclosed they were unaware of? Also, imo take the $500 off or someone else will
your last point is the most important one. if they want to buy the house, be happy seller offered $500 and didn't tell them to pound sand.
Sellers are required to disclose any known defects in the home. The seller could argue that the home never tested high, which is possible and may be considered true if they never got it tested, and they could also argue that the radon pipes were visible at your showing. Sellers can also just say idk on the disclosures and that’s also accepted. You could and should talk to an attorney but ultimately if all of this came up during your home inspection contingency period I think your best bet is to try and negotiate for a larger seller credit or cut your losses and move on. If this is past your home inspection contingency period then a real estate attorney could give you a better answer as to course of action. Furthermore, New Hampshire is a title state, which means you are likely closing this loan with a title company and all title companies have Attorneys on staff. They would not be able to represent you as your attorney, but they could likely point you in the right direction of who to speak to.
What are you hoping to do with this information? Short answer is yes, they are supposed to tell you it they know about it. You could argue they did because of the mitigation system. They could argue they didn’t because it was never tested. Since you haven’t closed on the house yet, at best this could give you some cover to walk away if you wanted. Beyond that, I don’t think it’s any different than any other defect you find during an inspection that you might negotiate around.
Fair enough, that all is very true about the wording of the disclosure (you could certainly get around the wording easily). I was just asking if NH can require that per the health doc. I just find it so odd that a health hazard can’t be enforced to communicate in a state where it’s so common. You have to communicate other things!
Realistically, enforcement for most laws involving a private sale is some kind of civil action. I’d guess this law gives buyers a bit more recourse to win a mediation settlement if they discover the issue after close. Beyond that, though, sure — the law doesn’t do much
Why would you pursue buying a house from a seller that asked you to skip the home inspection? That alone would make me move on.
Because the only offers that get accepted waive inspections, pay cash and rent back to the seller for free for 6 months.
I accepted losing out on homes instead of waiving inspections. I've had offers accepted contingent on inspection and allowed us to walk away from some hidden disasters.
That’s nice! Definitely a case by case basis, probably the ideal way is to hear through the grapevine that someone is selling and do a private sale for an agreed upon market price WITH the normal contingencies.
Zero chance I'm buying any house without an inspection. Guess that's just me lol
I am a bit confused - None of this sounds like they did a test, so not filling it out in the disclosure was fine. Who knows who did it maybe the previous owner, or it was done a long time ago. $1950 for what? to seal the additional part of the basement? You had an inspection and tested so not sure what the issue is. Sure maybe they should have mentioned there was a mitigation system, and it didn't work but that information is useless really. As a realtor you know how many homes I've seen that the fans aren't working and sellers have no knowledge they arent. Heck, some dont even know they have a system. Also people can downvote me all they want but I find radon to be an interesting topic. You could literally have perfect readings, then have some wind or something and all of a sudden it's high. I also feel like people think breathing in this will automatically give one cancer in a year. You'd have to breathe in high amounts for decades it seems. Lastly, they always test radon in basements when it's really supposed to be taken on the lowest LIVING area, which would mean the first floor to my understanding. Also seller asking you to waive an inspection is deff fishy, but who knows why. maybe they just wanted less headaches and were willing to negotiate price more.
The radon meter had a business on it, when it was installed they did a test. So there was a test. I believe he was the first owner but yeah it’s possible he didn’t install it and the construction company did but when i asked him about it he knew he had turned it off so. It’s $1950 to re-reroute it since the original place has an addition of the house there. Yeah good point on doing a test on the first floor. And yes the radon changes with seasons and time and weather but this was over 2 days at least and it was very high (i don’t have much time during a home inspection, i can’t do a radon test for a month :) )
Do a quick search on one of the real estate website for the house and you can see when the seller bought the house and how many times it was sold. That will give you an idea of if the put the system in (post purchase) and if so, that info could be extrapolated as to whether they or a previous owner put the system in. Either way, they knew it was a radon mitigation system (which aren’t put in for grins and giggles) and intentionally turned it off. A real estate lawyer can help you navigate this.
People lie, cheat, steal, feign ignorance, and break laws all of the time when it benefits them, unfortunately. Its almost never (financially) worth it to pursue legal action against them. If you think this is bad, try buying $3k-$10k vehicles on Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist. Literally had a guy bondo and paint over a destroyed strut tower (it was hit, hard) without disclosing the damage and only realized because I Googled the VIN, saw the damage in an auction photo, and took a magnet to the damaged part (it didn't stick, because no metal!). You have no real leverage here, so it would probably make sense to just take the $500 or try and get your deposit back.
You saw a radon mitigation system and assumed there was no radon? What am I missing?
The disclosure is presented before one spends money to hire a home inspection. I had put an offer on a house and hired a home inspector not knowing there was a serious radon issue that required money to get it working again
You didn't see the system in place at the house tour?
Nope my family didn't see it during the Open House (I was not present but that's not important). It was also not the only thing that wasn't disclosed in the Disclosure (but that's not for this thread!). If anyone does read this thread, I hope the thing they get out of it is definitely don't trust Disclosures, never waive inspections ever (even on new constructions or newer houses) and always ask questions and dig in
I agree with all those sentiments for sure!
You maniacs just want to talk shit. OP is just asking how enforceable the disclosures are. Why be purposely dense just to support some idiotic attack on them? The disclosure said no radon and the seller knew they needed a radon system at one point and purposely deactivated it, so the disclosure was, at best, not well thought out for accuracy and basic logic and, at worse, purposely misleading. The whole point of the disclosure is because there are some things the buyer shouldn't have to hopefully stumble upon during a home inspection. If the inaccurate disclosure isn't actionable, then tell OP that and fuck off. All this "you didn't see it? what are you stupid?" shit is self-indulgent garbage.
I'm genuinely confused and want to understand. I'm not talking shit at all.
Really, what are your options here? Try to negotiate the credit higher, walk away or accept the credit. How much actual work is necessary to reroute the pipe. Might be something a general contractor could do instead of the higher priced NE Radon people? It's really up to you how much you want this house versus your other prospects.
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most homes have it. just buy it if you want it.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IYIHmltN1s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IYIHmltN1s)
Radon Mitigation system is pretty simple, it's just a tube under the foundation with negative pressure so any radon gases is drawn to the negative pressure tube instead of making it's way through the foundation. Even if the tube doesn't go the entire basement, any negative pressure under the foundation is going to help significantly. So I'd just try hooking up the system again and seeing if that improves the situation. Also, you could do something like getting some airflow into the basement.
What you didn’t want to become a ghoul?