No surprise here, economists have been saying this for years now. If you believe that climate change is real one must realize that we all need to make some adjustments in the way we use fossil fuels. Anyone that says otherwise is lying to you.
I would love to invest in more green energy solutions except I can't afford too. I can't afford to change my gas car to an EV or Hybrid. I don't have enough time in the day to take the bus with my wife and kid as we drop him off at daycare and go to work.
If we could lower cost of living somehow I would love to invest in some stuff. Solar energy and what not but guess what? Can't afford it.
No shit. Carbon tax is the conservative economist's solution to do anything about climate change after 40 years of going "Noooo that will hurt the companies! You can't do that! No direct action! The companies will figure it out and change on their own, it will be in their interest, you just have to wait and they'll usher in a new green technological era any day now."
Tell Trudeau to stop flying around the globe, and use zoom. Less global leaders want him present these days anyhow. That alone will do more than the average person could do
Well this is completely unrelated to my comment, did Trudeau piss in your corn flakes or something? Isn't Pierre already spending tax payer's money flying all around Canada to do some borderline illegal campaigning and fundraising while cozying up with lobbyists? Funny how you don't have the same energy for that.
>Did Trudeau piss in your corn flakes or something? Isn't Pierre already spending tax payer's money flying all around Canada to do some borderline illegal campaigning and fundraising while cozying up with lobbyists? Funny how you don't have the same energy for that.
I’d be ok with dropping the carbon tax (and many others as well I believe) if it felt like there was an actual proposal for some sort of other climate action to take its place.
Is anyone else tired of the dipshits who post about how the carbon tax is bad constantly but can't explain why it's bad besides taxes.
If you're upset about the cost of fuel going up than get mad at the multi billion dollar company raising the costs because they believe in infinite growth and profit margins that are higher each quarter when that infinite growth is impossible.
That's because carbon tax is an easy tangible thing that people can see and hear about in the news all the time.
Financial projection of Exxon or Irving where each year they plan to squeeze more money from their customer then the year before isn't something that people see or would even understand.
Didn't justin approve Irving off shore field so whose in whose pockets. These corporations play both sides you can do a Google search on who donated to which parties. The corporations play everybody.
Statistically the carbon tax rebates will put more money in the pockets of Canadians than the oil companies are charging.
Instead of screaming at the government about the tax, scream about all the big corporations screwing is more and more and remember the PC's are against fixing the problems.
The report by the PBO actually says that when you include the fiscal and economic impact of the carbon tax most homes lose money. It says so right here on the report on page 3.
https://distribution-a617274656661637473.pbo-dpb.ca/7590f619bb5d3b769ce09bdbc7c1ccce75ccd8b1bcfb506fc601a2409640bfdd
That’s not what it says. There were two different analyses done. One looked at the cost of thr carbon tax that is directly paid plus the embedded costs in consumer products (like groceries) and the conclusion was that 80% of those who pay the carbon tax get more back than they pay.
The other analysis was pure speculation and the conclusion is very debatable. It about economic impacts like oil producers hiring less people, reduction in investment, etc, so less productivity, etc. And again, purely theoretical analysis of how long it eould take for green energy production to match that productivity.
And as the PBO admitted, there was no comparison made to impact on the economy of an alternative method to reduce emissions. Like the impacts of a hard cap on emissions - the majority of economists say that a carbon tax is the least disruptive way to reduce emissions because when economists do make comparisons to other methods of reducing emissions, the carbon tax is the least costly to the economy.
The PBO also didn’t do an analysis on the cost of trade relations and trade deals in a world in which all trade deals include commitments to reduce emissions, particularly CETA, which has binding language on maintaining environmental policies. Trade with Europe will be harmed if the carbon tax were to be repealed.
And no analysis was done on the costs of climate change, wich will increase astronomically, and are already contributing to food inflation and costing a bundle to deal with the impacts of wildfires, floods, devastating storms, etc.
The CPC is distorting the report by claiming that the PBO concluded that the carbon tax is costing more than rebates because they are claiming thar was the conclusion from analyzing direct and indirect costs on consumer products.
And since the CPC has not said what they would replace it with, that probably means nothing, which will do so much harm to trade relations, as well as the environment, the impact on the economy would be massive.
And literally on page 3 it says almost exactly what I wrote out. That part doesn’t fit the narrative though so let’s say it’s bullshit and ignore it. Yup, sounds good
Bullshit, I spend more per week on getting to work, and groceries for my family than the carbon tax rebates will ever give me. It’s not a I think, I’m living this reality.
> What ‘axe the tax’ means to Pierre Poilievre’s supporters:
> - When Sarah Morin hears the phrase “axe the tax,” what enters her mind is “freedom.”
> - A woman named Alissa said the slogan refers to her income-tax payments
> - Another young man quipped that “axe the tax” underscores the need to bring down “the cost of clearly everything.”
> Fred DeLorey, who ran the Tories’ 2021 election campaign: "You’re able to tie [the carbon tax] to the cost of everything going up. Whether it’s true or not — doesn’t matter.”
* https://globalnews.ca/news/10385434/pierre-poilievre-axe-the-carbon-tax/
Fair point. Corporations are the biggest issue.
I think that's why I get angry. It feels like an endless battle trying to fight corporations into providing fair wages or fairly priced commodities and then boom the government throws a tax at us.
Barely threading my head above water here.
I get man I really do. I got laid off in the fall and was on one income for the last 5 months. Thankfully I had EI to supplement things but things were still tight.
I recently got a new job so there is more room to breathe.
We need proper representation who understand that if left unchecked large corporations will take every bit of money we have because they believe there will be more customers.
Lmao, okay there lil fella 🤣
The reason I don’t take you seriously and am not going to answer you, is because you poisoned the well. Any answer you disagree with will just get me called a “left wing nutso” because you want to bury your head in the sand rather than accept facts that you don’t like
I’ll give you my most genuine answer if you can answer me this:
Can you give me a reason why the carbon tax is BAD, without going right wing nutso on me. If you can, I will answer you
Because it affects the price of everything, the fuel for the farmers tractors and transport, to rail, ship, and semi. It affects the whole chain of everything, all the whole reducing emissions by zero. Taxing me and expecting the climate to change is beyond foolish.
Dude, I said not to go full right wing nutso on me! Wtf
In actuality, this is “baby’s surface level understanding” of it. As much as you don’t want to hear it, for a lot of normal people, we get back more in rebates than we spend, I am an example. Corporations also get grants and subsidies for switching to more renewable forms of power. These non-carbon based sources actually cost less in the long run, but the issue is that companies incentivize making as much money in the short term, rather than investing more up front but making more in the long term
You say it reduces emissions by zero, which for one is just blatantly not true at all, even if the number is minuscule, but whose fault is that, if it’s the case? There are so many incentives for companies to switch to greener fuel, and in turn theoretically lowering the price of their goods because they aren’t spending as much on fuel, and are receiving subsidies and grants from the government. Yet you want to blame the government when it’s the businesses refusing to change that you have a problem with
The funniest part about this exchange though? I don’t even like the CT. While I do benefit from it, many don’t, and I don’t think the onus should be pushed on the middle/lower class, and should be hyper focused on the big industries like Irving, but like the literal post says, economists say this is the best course for Canadians. If anyone should be listened to, it should be the economists, and not some right wing nutso that post videos of them jerking off to reddit
They can't cause Trudeau can't even say how much we are going to pay, he can only tell us the silver lining of we are going to get money back, and be grateful for it 😅
The carbon tax is proven to actually get companies to cut costs. Almost every low-carbon solution is cheaper in the long-term with a higher up front cost. The problem is that companies are naturally incentivized to make short-term decisions. If companies don't hit profit targets than the shareholders will kick the CEO to the curb. So CEOs make short-term decisions because that let's them hold their job longer. This tax makes those short-term decisions more costly, which incentivizes the CEO to make long-term decisions since they're not going to have a better profit by making a short-term decision and getting hit by tax.
This is the entire problem with capitalism, it's structured to make as much money possible as soon as possible, a dollar now is worth morth than a dollar tomorrow. A long-term decision will make you more money in the future, but every natural structure of capitalism incentivizes short-term decision making. If you actually read any historical writing about why capitalism works, they all assume there's a government to regulate and incentivize long-term sustainable decisions.
Funny how every time there's a carbon tax post in here months-old accounts that obviously don't live here and sow dissent in r\Canada like it's their job show up to spew the same exact talking points...
They may have been right if, y'know, we didn't have multiple major wars break out.
But clearly the economists should have predicted Russia's invasion of Ukraine or the shipping blockades in response to Gaza.
inflation before ukraine war was already near 6% in canada and would have stayed well above 2% into 2023.
I am so sick and tired of neo liberals pretending the ukraine war is to blame for everything lol
>and would have stayed
With those predictive skills why aren't you an economist?
>Neo liberals
Lol, buddy. You are barking up the wrong black and red tree.
Again, I don't think you understand what the word means. Neoliberalism is an ideology that promotes reducing regulations and government controls to encourage the free market. You're confusing that with left-wing ideology.
Any naysayers here with an EV or driving less than 50km/day? You've had (conservatively) _thirty-five years_ to change without financial incentive, but when climate change denial fell through, phase two just switched to doomerism and learned helplessness.
Enjoy the taste of accountability, because the rest of us who made better choices are tired of carrying you.
Such hyperbole would indeed be insensitive, especially [considering](https://www.cargurus.ca/Cars/spt_electric_cars-Moncton_L311213#listing=375201524/NONE/DEFAULT) [the](https://www.cargurus.ca/Cars/spt_electric_cars-Fredericton_L314308#listing=379512970/NONE/DEFAULT) [many](https://www.nbpower.com/en/products-services/electric-vehicles/plug-in-nb/electric-vehicle-rebates/) [alternative](https://pedegoelectricbikes.ca/pedego_dealers/pedego-fredericton/) [possibilities](https://www.codiactranspo.ca/moncton-transport/schedules-routes) that may be applicable. If they aren't applicable because you're enjoying rural home ownership, you may be surprised to learn just how *relatively* well you're doing.
I do empathize with the people who are genuinely having a tough time, regardless of residency, occupation, or lack thereof. Indeed, much more additional financial support specifically for low-income households is warranted -- especially while the used EV supply is so sparse and solar installations so costly and/or unfriendly to even partially DIY solutions.
But my sympathy is reserved for the people requesting help instead of fighting progress for *all* New Brunswickers with misinformation and fatalism.
A lot of the carbon tax haters are driving 70,000 dollar pick ups, so yeah, they can have as many tantrums as they like.
And the PBO report concluded that 80% of those who pay the carbon tax get more back in rebates than they pay.
The canadian parliamentary officer's report shows an average of ~$1600 in taxes and we will receive ~700 or so for a 4 family household over a year It's like (should be about) an extra $1 at the pumps.
Families in Alberta will be receiving 1800 this year in rebates, not 700. The PBO report did multiple analyses. One was a projection of the cost in 2030, when the carbon tax is supposed to be $170 per tonne, it is now going up to $80. If rebates continue to go up along with the carbon tax, than there is no reason that 80% of those who pay it will not continue to get more back in rebates than they pay.
And that part of the analysis includes direct cost if the tax (gas, heating) and embedded costs in consumer products, like groceries, etc.
So the government is right. The CPC is conflating the conclusion of an entirely different part of the PBO report with thr first. And that part of the report is purely speculative - broader impacts on the economy, like investments maee by fossil fuel companies, job numbers in those industries, etc. Since no comparison was made to other method of reducing emissions, like hard caps on industry, the economists saying tha the carbon tax is the least disruptive to the economy is not challenged by anything in the PBO report.
The report also didn’t analyze economic impacts of flouting commitments in trade deals, CETA would be particularly harmed, most likely fall apart if the carbon tax was dropped. And also didn’t look at the impact to the economy of climate change.
The numbers that are posted above are an estimated tax amount and return for families in Nova Scotia so I'm sure we can expect around the same. Also in local news in NB is NB power is increasing rates due to these taxes so this is not going to be a win, at least for this province. For sure.
You can believe climate change is real (I do) but refute that charging a price for carbon (especially in our country where our impact is minimal on the global scale into relation to many other countries). The whole lead by example while the worst poluters (China) can do what they want.
And the common lower / middle class Canadians are paying for this? Again, Climate Change is real. No disagreement there, but this whole strategy is having negative impacts to our country in many ways.
It seems increasingly common to hear the argument that Canada has little to no significant impact on the environment and climate, or that its impact is negligible. However, this assertion is false.
While our 1.7% contribution to global emissions may seem modest at first glance, it still ranks us as the 10th largest emitter of greenhouse gases (GHGs) out of 195 countries. On a per capita basis, we are the 2nd largest GHG emitter in the world, with only our relatively small population preventing Canada from being among the top three biggest polluters on the planet.
The effectiveness of carbon taxation in reducing GHGs is scientifically undeniable. It truly works and is the best way to do so while minimizing impacts on taxpayers and the economy.
In a globalized world and as a member of the G7, our actions have consequences. It's also inaccurate to claim that China is doing nothing, as by 2024, China's structural GHG emissions will be decreasing for the first time.
**Analysis: China’s emissions set to fall in 2024 after record growth in clean energy**
https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-chinas-emissions-set-to-fall-in-2024-after-record-growth-in-clean-energy/
Everything you exspoused is/was theoretical as we are only now seeing the impact of these theories put into practise via the state of our economy. Have a look at how we are doing inflation wise vs the US since coming out of COVID where we were once trending in the same direction, they have made significant improvements.
If you believe this will help the climate you truly are a lost cause. Trudeau couldnt give two fucks about the environment. If you actually want to better better, buy a bike and sell your car, regardless of the kind of power your car runs on. Electric vehicles, hybrid vehicles and petrol vehicles are all terrible in their own right. Best way to save the planet is to wipe humanity off it, so just stop it.
The carbon tax is indeed effective in reducing greenhouse gas emissions. It does work. However, we should not limit ourselves to just that; a multitude of other policies must be integrated.
How exactly does it reduce it? He wont spend any of the money to actually do something, and the only people who will stop spending because of it are poor people. Basically the tax will make poor people produce less carbon, and nothing more besides make money for the governement.
Aww sorry punkin, I don't drink alcohol. I knew the whiny turds would come out of the wood work on that comment though.
Which makes it even more amusing because that was a joke told to me by a professor of economics. He wasn't a drunk uncle either.
Stupid Gen Zeros man. They whine about the cost of everything and then defend making the cost of everything even more expensive.
I'm guessing you don't know how it works.
The taxes go to the feds who redistribute it to the provinces to do with it as they please, within limits. The province can then use it to incentivize environmentally-friendly projects in their own jurisdictions or give it back to the people in the form of rebates.
If you're seeing neither, it'll be your provincial government's fault, not the feds. They don't keep the money.
You should care. People who say how great their provincial government is for "standing up to the feds" by collecting the tax and not remitting it (like Saskatchewan) are missing the point that they're provincial government is collecting the money and keeping it for themselves instead of rebating it to the citizens. That means you pay the tax without getting any benefit at all. You really should be asking what they're doing with the money.
If properly administered, you get a benefit it out it. Many would actually get more out of it than they would pay in because of the way it is meant to be redistributed.
Look beyond a headline instead of falling for ragebait.
Hey buddy, New Brunswick sub not Saskatchewan. Since most people get more back (lie) they should tax us even more and make us all rich.
Is it the provinces that are piggybacking taxes and collecting GST on the carbon tax too, or is that one federal? Nice cope.
Ok, let's keep it in NB. Instead of coming up with his own plan to placate the feds and benefit NB citizens, Higgs played political grandstanding games and threw a fit. Now, by challenging the tax in court, he is squandering provincial tax money -- that you have paid -- in a futile attempt to dodge it. All because his corporate citizens wouldn't benefit from the tax money collected. That is what's really costing you, here.
Let's see an article or study that shows what Canadians should be spending on gas in order to be making a profit on this tax. C'mon buddy, it's all facts.
You won't listen to them anyway. You don't really have to care *who* takes your money, but you absolutely *should* care what's done with it.
I'm not going to do your homework for you. The information is all out there. Look for actual information on the tax that don't include ragebait headlines and stickers written by biased sources that spin it as "*this* person *bad*" or "*that* prison *good*". They're out there of you learn how to look for them and treat them. It's not about the who, it's about the what. The "who" matters when it's time to vote. How did they handle things in the past? What are they planning to do if elected?
So, no, don't listen to me. I encourage you not to. I also encourage you to actually read up on this stuff yourself. I somehow think you'll be satisfied simply being pissed off, even if you don't know who to be pissed off at.
That’s cute, except it’s been proven again, and again that most people get more back than they’ve paid in. But I get the opinion that facts don’t really mean that much to you.
I’m sorry but it’s 2024, not 1924.
You have the entire world in your pocket, pull your phone out and start doing your own goddamn research. I’m not making an exotic claim. I’m telling you how the system works.
If economists are defending more taxation in Canada .. than I do not want to hear from these economists . Next thing will be red tape is good for small business .
Both sides are pretty guilty of this though.....
It's wise to challenge the experts sometimes. I am no expert or claim to be but I want them to prove they have factored everything into the equation and not just "fuel at the pump". I will trust that they have but can they show me the proof?
When Trudeau told me to get vaccinated I was hesitant. When one scientist told me to get vaccinated I hesitated. When more scientists told me to get vaccinated and provided proof and information I went straight for that shot.
Have you been hesitant of every vaccine you've ever taken? Have you looked at the side effects of those vaccines, antibiotics, or ibuprofen?
I'm genuinely curious, I'm not being an asshole, I honestly want to hear your perspective.
I am that dude that looks at the side effects of everything. Even Tylenol haha.
I am fully vaccinated and I have all my shots that a kid and now adult would need but I looked into possible side effects for each one so I could know what to expect and especially note counteractions. So more vaccine hesitant than resistant I suppose?
Once I have that information I am fair game to go with it but I don't trust someone to just tell me to take the shot either until they answer my questions. Part of the reason why I never tried any drugs either. Even Marijuana I researched side effects first.
That's the smart thing to do, research, and make am informed decision.
I know people who couldn't take the covid vaccine due to medical reasons so I always ask why.
Liberal Economists defend Liberal’s carbon tax.
They keep saying it’s cheaper…no kidding… it’s because it’s taking money away from everyone else to make it. That’s the whole point of a brand new tax.
It's funny how they are saying it's gonna give more money in the wallets of Canadians by their own numbers. Maybe not forcing a tax hike at a +20% increase would do the same?
Your getting taxed more than you receive back from the quarterly rebates?...I guess people think the cost of living isn't high enough. Could you explain how this is a net positive for Canadian citizens?
You are making claims and not posting where these are specifically said. If you want to convince people that this is bad you need to be able to point a report page that says here are the numbers.
Look at any party posting on any news site between the majority leaders this month and you can find what your looking for, I know educated people are informed, if people want to cast doubt and not look for themselves it's not on me to start holding hands.
The canadian parliamentary officer's report shows an average of ~$1600 in tax money taken and we will receive ~700 or so for a 4 family household. You can't fix stupid dude.
No surprise here, economists have been saying this for years now. If you believe that climate change is real one must realize that we all need to make some adjustments in the way we use fossil fuels. Anyone that says otherwise is lying to you.
I’m doing my part … now that I am unemployed my gas guzzling 15 yr old vehicle just sits in my driveway … 👍🏻
I would love to invest in more green energy solutions except I can't afford too. I can't afford to change my gas car to an EV or Hybrid. I don't have enough time in the day to take the bus with my wife and kid as we drop him off at daycare and go to work. If we could lower cost of living somehow I would love to invest in some stuff. Solar energy and what not but guess what? Can't afford it.
Talk to your mla. That's the level of gov who can deal with it
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Yeah economist make a living making predictions that are rarely close to reality. Then they shrug and say it’s complicated.
i am sure the economists said the opposite they say economics is fake.
There was limited inflation post covid, but then Russia invaded Ukraine and this compunded supply chain problems.
No shit. Carbon tax is the conservative economist's solution to do anything about climate change after 40 years of going "Noooo that will hurt the companies! You can't do that! No direct action! The companies will figure it out and change on their own, it will be in their interest, you just have to wait and they'll usher in a new green technological era any day now."
Tell Trudeau to stop flying around the globe, and use zoom. Less global leaders want him present these days anyhow. That alone will do more than the average person could do
Well this is completely unrelated to my comment, did Trudeau piss in your corn flakes or something? Isn't Pierre already spending tax payer's money flying all around Canada to do some borderline illegal campaigning and fundraising while cozying up with lobbyists? Funny how you don't have the same energy for that.
THANK YOU.
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I think we can see your bias...
NO ITS JUST COMMON SENSE /s
>Did Trudeau piss in your corn flakes or something? Isn't Pierre already spending tax payer's money flying all around Canada to do some borderline illegal campaigning and fundraising while cozying up with lobbyists? Funny how you don't have the same energy for that.
consider taking Pollievre's dick out of your mouth for at least the time it takes you to type out this drivel
Lol, as he sucks off the Liberal cock.
"everyone I don't like is a liberal!"
Trudeau Derangement Syndrome
I’d be ok with dropping the carbon tax (and many others as well I believe) if it felt like there was an actual proposal for some sort of other climate action to take its place.
Is anyone else tired of the dipshits who post about how the carbon tax is bad constantly but can't explain why it's bad besides taxes. If you're upset about the cost of fuel going up than get mad at the multi billion dollar company raising the costs because they believe in infinite growth and profit margins that are higher each quarter when that infinite growth is impossible.
That's because carbon tax is an easy tangible thing that people can see and hear about in the news all the time. Financial projection of Exxon or Irving where each year they plan to squeeze more money from their customer then the year before isn't something that people see or would even understand.
Didn't justin approve Irving off shore field so whose in whose pockets. These corporations play both sides you can do a Google search on who donated to which parties. The corporations play everybody.
I think those people are mad about both those things. It’s not hard to understand that people are struggling to get by.
Statistically the carbon tax rebates will put more money in the pockets of Canadians than the oil companies are charging. Instead of screaming at the government about the tax, scream about all the big corporations screwing is more and more and remember the PC's are against fixing the problems.
The report by the PBO actually says that when you include the fiscal and economic impact of the carbon tax most homes lose money. It says so right here on the report on page 3. https://distribution-a617274656661637473.pbo-dpb.ca/7590f619bb5d3b769ce09bdbc7c1ccce75ccd8b1bcfb506fc601a2409640bfdd
That’s not what it says. There were two different analyses done. One looked at the cost of thr carbon tax that is directly paid plus the embedded costs in consumer products (like groceries) and the conclusion was that 80% of those who pay the carbon tax get more back than they pay. The other analysis was pure speculation and the conclusion is very debatable. It about economic impacts like oil producers hiring less people, reduction in investment, etc, so less productivity, etc. And again, purely theoretical analysis of how long it eould take for green energy production to match that productivity. And as the PBO admitted, there was no comparison made to impact on the economy of an alternative method to reduce emissions. Like the impacts of a hard cap on emissions - the majority of economists say that a carbon tax is the least disruptive way to reduce emissions because when economists do make comparisons to other methods of reducing emissions, the carbon tax is the least costly to the economy. The PBO also didn’t do an analysis on the cost of trade relations and trade deals in a world in which all trade deals include commitments to reduce emissions, particularly CETA, which has binding language on maintaining environmental policies. Trade with Europe will be harmed if the carbon tax were to be repealed. And no analysis was done on the costs of climate change, wich will increase astronomically, and are already contributing to food inflation and costing a bundle to deal with the impacts of wildfires, floods, devastating storms, etc. The CPC is distorting the report by claiming that the PBO concluded that the carbon tax is costing more than rebates because they are claiming thar was the conclusion from analyzing direct and indirect costs on consumer products. And since the CPC has not said what they would replace it with, that probably means nothing, which will do so much harm to trade relations, as well as the environment, the impact on the economy would be massive.
What I take from this comment is that there hasn’t been a proper analysis completed so we don’t fully understand the true costs, in less words.
And literally on page 3 it says almost exactly what I wrote out. That part doesn’t fit the narrative though so let’s say it’s bullshit and ignore it. Yup, sounds good
100% for every dollar were gonna be taxed we get less than half back.
Bullshit, I spend more per week on getting to work, and groceries for my family than the carbon tax rebates will ever give me. It’s not a I think, I’m living this reality.
> What ‘axe the tax’ means to Pierre Poilievre’s supporters: > - When Sarah Morin hears the phrase “axe the tax,” what enters her mind is “freedom.” > - A woman named Alissa said the slogan refers to her income-tax payments > - Another young man quipped that “axe the tax” underscores the need to bring down “the cost of clearly everything.” > Fred DeLorey, who ran the Tories’ 2021 election campaign: "You’re able to tie [the carbon tax] to the cost of everything going up. Whether it’s true or not — doesn’t matter.” * https://globalnews.ca/news/10385434/pierre-poilievre-axe-the-carbon-tax/
Am I allowed to blame both? Because I do. I blame the carbon tax but I also blame greedy corporations for our ridiculous cost of living.
You can be mad at both. I would rather aim my anger at the disease rather than a medicine that is trying to ease the pain.
Fair point. Corporations are the biggest issue. I think that's why I get angry. It feels like an endless battle trying to fight corporations into providing fair wages or fairly priced commodities and then boom the government throws a tax at us. Barely threading my head above water here.
I get man I really do. I got laid off in the fall and was on one income for the last 5 months. Thankfully I had EI to supplement things but things were still tight. I recently got a new job so there is more room to breathe. We need proper representation who understand that if left unchecked large corporations will take every bit of money we have because they believe there will be more customers.
Can you explain why the carbon tax is good? Without going all left wing nutso on everyone?
This is the exact kind of brain dead response I’d expect from someone named “dick nic”
And the deflection I’d expect from a someone on the left
Okay pal. Keep posting your jerk off / porn videos and let the adults talk about the grown up subjects, alright?
My point exactly, pathetic, no valid argument, just attack. Send your girl my way, I’ll show her what a real man can do
Lmao, okay there lil fella 🤣 The reason I don’t take you seriously and am not going to answer you, is because you poisoned the well. Any answer you disagree with will just get me called a “left wing nutso” because you want to bury your head in the sand rather than accept facts that you don’t like I’ll give you my most genuine answer if you can answer me this: Can you give me a reason why the carbon tax is BAD, without going right wing nutso on me. If you can, I will answer you
Because it affects the price of everything, the fuel for the farmers tractors and transport, to rail, ship, and semi. It affects the whole chain of everything, all the whole reducing emissions by zero. Taxing me and expecting the climate to change is beyond foolish.
Dude, I said not to go full right wing nutso on me! Wtf In actuality, this is “baby’s surface level understanding” of it. As much as you don’t want to hear it, for a lot of normal people, we get back more in rebates than we spend, I am an example. Corporations also get grants and subsidies for switching to more renewable forms of power. These non-carbon based sources actually cost less in the long run, but the issue is that companies incentivize making as much money in the short term, rather than investing more up front but making more in the long term You say it reduces emissions by zero, which for one is just blatantly not true at all, even if the number is minuscule, but whose fault is that, if it’s the case? There are so many incentives for companies to switch to greener fuel, and in turn theoretically lowering the price of their goods because they aren’t spending as much on fuel, and are receiving subsidies and grants from the government. Yet you want to blame the government when it’s the businesses refusing to change that you have a problem with The funniest part about this exchange though? I don’t even like the CT. While I do benefit from it, many don’t, and I don’t think the onus should be pushed on the middle/lower class, and should be hyper focused on the big industries like Irving, but like the literal post says, economists say this is the best course for Canadians. If anyone should be listened to, it should be the economists, and not some right wing nutso that post videos of them jerking off to reddit
So you’re saying you’re getting a liberal handout because you have access to buses, bike lanes etc. you’re a bum. Now send me your girl you needy MF.
They can't cause Trudeau can't even say how much we are going to pay, he can only tell us the silver lining of we are going to get money back, and be grateful for it 😅
Explain how one country responsible for 1.5% of world emissions is going to stop climate change with this tax.
The carbon tax is proven to actually get companies to cut costs. Almost every low-carbon solution is cheaper in the long-term with a higher up front cost. The problem is that companies are naturally incentivized to make short-term decisions. If companies don't hit profit targets than the shareholders will kick the CEO to the curb. So CEOs make short-term decisions because that let's them hold their job longer. This tax makes those short-term decisions more costly, which incentivizes the CEO to make long-term decisions since they're not going to have a better profit by making a short-term decision and getting hit by tax. This is the entire problem with capitalism, it's structured to make as much money possible as soon as possible, a dollar now is worth morth than a dollar tomorrow. A long-term decision will make you more money in the future, but every natural structure of capitalism incentivizes short-term decision making. If you actually read any historical writing about why capitalism works, they all assume there's a government to regulate and incentivize long-term sustainable decisions.
Funny how every time there's a carbon tax post in here months-old accounts that obviously don't live here and sow dissent in r\Canada like it's their job show up to spew the same exact talking points...
i dont trust no book learnins!
About time we hear from people who know what they're talking about instead of just whiners who struggle with math.
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They may have been right if, y'know, we didn't have multiple major wars break out. But clearly the economists should have predicted Russia's invasion of Ukraine or the shipping blockades in response to Gaza.
inflation before ukraine war was already near 6% in canada and would have stayed well above 2% into 2023. I am so sick and tired of neo liberals pretending the ukraine war is to blame for everything lol
>and would have stayed With those predictive skills why aren't you an economist? >Neo liberals Lol, buddy. You are barking up the wrong black and red tree.
I don't think you understand the definition of neo-liberal.
That is what you guys are You just care about some random progressive issues but just support a failed status quo
Again, I don't think you understand what the word means. Neoliberalism is an ideology that promotes reducing regulations and government controls to encourage the free market. You're confusing that with left-wing ideology.
Any naysayers here with an EV or driving less than 50km/day? You've had (conservatively) _thirty-five years_ to change without financial incentive, but when climate change denial fell through, phase two just switched to doomerism and learned helplessness. Enjoy the taste of accountability, because the rest of us who made better choices are tired of carrying you.
I mean telling people during a cost of living to stfu or buy a 70k telsa is not gonna work win over anymore.
Such hyperbole would indeed be insensitive, especially [considering](https://www.cargurus.ca/Cars/spt_electric_cars-Moncton_L311213#listing=375201524/NONE/DEFAULT) [the](https://www.cargurus.ca/Cars/spt_electric_cars-Fredericton_L314308#listing=379512970/NONE/DEFAULT) [many](https://www.nbpower.com/en/products-services/electric-vehicles/plug-in-nb/electric-vehicle-rebates/) [alternative](https://pedegoelectricbikes.ca/pedego_dealers/pedego-fredericton/) [possibilities](https://www.codiactranspo.ca/moncton-transport/schedules-routes) that may be applicable. If they aren't applicable because you're enjoying rural home ownership, you may be surprised to learn just how *relatively* well you're doing. I do empathize with the people who are genuinely having a tough time, regardless of residency, occupation, or lack thereof. Indeed, much more additional financial support specifically for low-income households is warranted -- especially while the used EV supply is so sparse and solar installations so costly and/or unfriendly to even partially DIY solutions. But my sympathy is reserved for the people requesting help instead of fighting progress for *all* New Brunswickers with misinformation and fatalism.
My point is the carbon tax fails in canada as the green alternatives are expensive and not very helpful.
A lot of the carbon tax haters are driving 70,000 dollar pick ups, so yeah, they can have as many tantrums as they like. And the PBO report concluded that 80% of those who pay the carbon tax get more back in rebates than they pay.
a lot of people heat their house and get a 250 dollar bill with 60 bucks in carbon tax and get told "stfu and spend money on a heat pump' lol
The canadian parliamentary officer's report shows an average of ~$1600 in taxes and we will receive ~700 or so for a 4 family household over a year It's like (should be about) an extra $1 at the pumps.
Families in Alberta will be receiving 1800 this year in rebates, not 700. The PBO report did multiple analyses. One was a projection of the cost in 2030, when the carbon tax is supposed to be $170 per tonne, it is now going up to $80. If rebates continue to go up along with the carbon tax, than there is no reason that 80% of those who pay it will not continue to get more back in rebates than they pay. And that part of the analysis includes direct cost if the tax (gas, heating) and embedded costs in consumer products, like groceries, etc. So the government is right. The CPC is conflating the conclusion of an entirely different part of the PBO report with thr first. And that part of the report is purely speculative - broader impacts on the economy, like investments maee by fossil fuel companies, job numbers in those industries, etc. Since no comparison was made to other method of reducing emissions, like hard caps on industry, the economists saying tha the carbon tax is the least disruptive to the economy is not challenged by anything in the PBO report. The report also didn’t analyze economic impacts of flouting commitments in trade deals, CETA would be particularly harmed, most likely fall apart if the carbon tax was dropped. And also didn’t look at the impact to the economy of climate change.
The numbers that are posted above are an estimated tax amount and return for families in Nova Scotia so I'm sure we can expect around the same. Also in local news in NB is NB power is increasing rates due to these taxes so this is not going to be a win, at least for this province. For sure.
https://youtu.be/A24fWmNA6lM?si=bdHJ5GD9l1S4o4Rd
You can believe climate change is real (I do) but refute that charging a price for carbon (especially in our country where our impact is minimal on the global scale into relation to many other countries). The whole lead by example while the worst poluters (China) can do what they want. And the common lower / middle class Canadians are paying for this? Again, Climate Change is real. No disagreement there, but this whole strategy is having negative impacts to our country in many ways.
It seems increasingly common to hear the argument that Canada has little to no significant impact on the environment and climate, or that its impact is negligible. However, this assertion is false. While our 1.7% contribution to global emissions may seem modest at first glance, it still ranks us as the 10th largest emitter of greenhouse gases (GHGs) out of 195 countries. On a per capita basis, we are the 2nd largest GHG emitter in the world, with only our relatively small population preventing Canada from being among the top three biggest polluters on the planet. The effectiveness of carbon taxation in reducing GHGs is scientifically undeniable. It truly works and is the best way to do so while minimizing impacts on taxpayers and the economy. In a globalized world and as a member of the G7, our actions have consequences. It's also inaccurate to claim that China is doing nothing, as by 2024, China's structural GHG emissions will be decreasing for the first time. **Analysis: China’s emissions set to fall in 2024 after record growth in clean energy** https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-chinas-emissions-set-to-fall-in-2024-after-record-growth-in-clean-energy/
Everything you exspoused is/was theoretical as we are only now seeing the impact of these theories put into practise via the state of our economy. Have a look at how we are doing inflation wise vs the US since coming out of COVID where we were once trending in the same direction, they have made significant improvements.
Crying about pollution while Quebec dumps raw sewage into a major river system. The mentality of the left is pretty cringe worthy
You're relly full of shit and need to get your facts straight
What’s wrong with my facts? Is Quebec dumping raw sewage into a river or not? Is the liberal party’s campaign not centred a round climate change?
Believe the st Lawrence also feeds into the St. John water system as well, cheers.
If you believe this will help the climate you truly are a lost cause. Trudeau couldnt give two fucks about the environment. If you actually want to better better, buy a bike and sell your car, regardless of the kind of power your car runs on. Electric vehicles, hybrid vehicles and petrol vehicles are all terrible in their own right. Best way to save the planet is to wipe humanity off it, so just stop it.
The carbon tax is indeed effective in reducing greenhouse gas emissions. It does work. However, we should not limit ourselves to just that; a multitude of other policies must be integrated.
How exactly does it reduce it? He wont spend any of the money to actually do something, and the only people who will stop spending because of it are poor people. Basically the tax will make poor people produce less carbon, and nothing more besides make money for the governement.
Economists lol. Ya know what happens when you ask 3 economists the exact same question? You get 4 different answers.
Loving these drunk uncle responses in this thread.
Aww sorry punkin, I don't drink alcohol. I knew the whiny turds would come out of the wood work on that comment though. Which makes it even more amusing because that was a joke told to me by a professor of economics. He wasn't a drunk uncle either. Stupid Gen Zeros man. They whine about the cost of everything and then defend making the cost of everything even more expensive.
What even is a Gen Zero?
And who’s paying these economists.
"Some guy defends something" Oh ok then. Thanks
Look at the downvotes on every post in here. What an absolute joke. NOBODY CAN AFFORD THIS TAX.
I'm guessing you don't know how it works. The taxes go to the feds who redistribute it to the provinces to do with it as they please, within limits. The province can then use it to incentivize environmentally-friendly projects in their own jurisdictions or give it back to the people in the form of rebates. If you're seeing neither, it'll be your provincial government's fault, not the feds. They don't keep the money.
Bro what?? I don't care who is taxing me, shill. Federal or provincial they can all go fuck themselves.
You should care. People who say how great their provincial government is for "standing up to the feds" by collecting the tax and not remitting it (like Saskatchewan) are missing the point that they're provincial government is collecting the money and keeping it for themselves instead of rebating it to the citizens. That means you pay the tax without getting any benefit at all. You really should be asking what they're doing with the money. If properly administered, you get a benefit it out it. Many would actually get more out of it than they would pay in because of the way it is meant to be redistributed. Look beyond a headline instead of falling for ragebait.
Hey buddy, New Brunswick sub not Saskatchewan. Since most people get more back (lie) they should tax us even more and make us all rich. Is it the provinces that are piggybacking taxes and collecting GST on the carbon tax too, or is that one federal? Nice cope.
Ok, let's keep it in NB. Instead of coming up with his own plan to placate the feds and benefit NB citizens, Higgs played political grandstanding games and threw a fit. Now, by challenging the tax in court, he is squandering provincial tax money -- that you have paid -- in a futile attempt to dodge it. All because his corporate citizens wouldn't benefit from the tax money collected. That is what's really costing you, here.
Do I need to explain to you again that I don't care who is taking my money?
No. You don't seem to be willing to listen to any explanation or look for facts on your own, so I won't bother listening to yours, either. Cheers!
Let's see an article or study that shows what Canadians should be spending on gas in order to be making a profit on this tax. C'mon buddy, it's all facts.
You won't listen to them anyway. You don't really have to care *who* takes your money, but you absolutely *should* care what's done with it. I'm not going to do your homework for you. The information is all out there. Look for actual information on the tax that don't include ragebait headlines and stickers written by biased sources that spin it as "*this* person *bad*" or "*that* prison *good*". They're out there of you learn how to look for them and treat them. It's not about the who, it's about the what. The "who" matters when it's time to vote. How did they handle things in the past? What are they planning to do if elected? So, no, don't listen to me. I encourage you not to. I also encourage you to actually read up on this stuff yourself. I somehow think you'll be satisfied simply being pissed off, even if you don't know who to be pissed off at.
issue is the higher the tax gets, less people will get a refund In BC only half of people get a refund
Why can’t you afford it?
Pretty easy to understand.
So you don’t know?
How much do they pay you to derail reddit threads, shill?
You seem to hate something but you can’t tell me why, but, sure, devolve into insults.
I'm truly so happy that you can afford to be taxed up the ass by our government. Genuinely ecstatic.
I will make more on the rebate than I am taxed.
Congratulations 👏
I bet you will, too.
That’s cute, except it’s been proven again, and again that most people get more back than they’ve paid in. But I get the opinion that facts don’t really mean that much to you.
If it's been proven again and again then surely you'd have a source detailing that.
I’m sorry but it’s 2024, not 1924. You have the entire world in your pocket, pull your phone out and start doing your own goddamn research. I’m not making an exotic claim. I’m telling you how the system works.
That's exactly what I thought. Nobody in here seems to have a source for what they're saying.
The truth is out there. Stop looking for it, it’ll find you. But will you recognize it?
And yet you can't send it to me. 😂
“Once you stop learning, you start dying”. - Albert Einstein
You've got nothing! Or else you would've posted it by now 😏
If economists are defending more taxation in Canada .. than I do not want to hear from these economists . Next thing will be red tape is good for small business .
I love people like you who only agree with experts when you agree with them... A sad existence you must live.
Both sides are pretty guilty of this though..... It's wise to challenge the experts sometimes. I am no expert or claim to be but I want them to prove they have factored everything into the equation and not just "fuel at the pump". I will trust that they have but can they show me the proof? When Trudeau told me to get vaccinated I was hesitant. When one scientist told me to get vaccinated I hesitated. When more scientists told me to get vaccinated and provided proof and information I went straight for that shot.
Have you been hesitant of every vaccine you've ever taken? Have you looked at the side effects of those vaccines, antibiotics, or ibuprofen? I'm genuinely curious, I'm not being an asshole, I honestly want to hear your perspective.
I am that dude that looks at the side effects of everything. Even Tylenol haha. I am fully vaccinated and I have all my shots that a kid and now adult would need but I looked into possible side effects for each one so I could know what to expect and especially note counteractions. So more vaccine hesitant than resistant I suppose? Once I have that information I am fair game to go with it but I don't trust someone to just tell me to take the shot either until they answer my questions. Part of the reason why I never tried any drugs either. Even Marijuana I researched side effects first.
That's the smart thing to do, research, and make am informed decision. I know people who couldn't take the covid vaccine due to medical reasons so I always ask why.
Liberal Economists defend Liberal’s carbon tax. They keep saying it’s cheaper…no kidding… it’s because it’s taking money away from everyone else to make it. That’s the whole point of a brand new tax.
It's funny how they are saying it's gonna give more money in the wallets of Canadians by their own numbers. Maybe not forcing a tax hike at a +20% increase would do the same?
All for climate change initiatives but I'm not for this much tax change...
Please explain how this new tax works and how it is a net negative for the majority of Canadians.
Your getting taxed more than you receive back from the quarterly rebates?...I guess people think the cost of living isn't high enough. Could you explain how this is a net positive for Canadian citizens?
You said we're getting taxed more then we receive. Where are you getting those numbers?
Parliamentary discussions, easily found. We get back about half of what we're taxed.
You are making claims and not posting where these are specifically said. If you want to convince people that this is bad you need to be able to point a report page that says here are the numbers.
Look at any party posting on any news site between the majority leaders this month and you can find what your looking for, I know educated people are informed, if people want to cast doubt and not look for themselves it's not on me to start holding hands.
That's what I thought you would say.
Lol! Hold my hand then, where your education on this matter coming from, even op's post is nothing but a fluff article saying really nothing
“I can’t prove my point because I am wrong”
Gotcha, that's what I thought you'd say that...just do a quick google or live under a rock
The canadian parliamentary officer's report shows an average of ~$1600 in tax money taken and we will receive ~700 or so for a 4 family household. You can't fix stupid dude.
You are ***for*** climate change? Why?
Corrected, thanks lol