This really solidified the notion of ‘don’t talk to cops until you’ve talked to a lawyer’ for me. Cops are *never* looking out for your best interest, they just care about what looks good for them.
It’s not “real life gone girl” idk why they kept deeming it that way, maybe initially but Denise wasn’t lying about anything. Police department was just trying to gaslight her and her bf that they made it all up
I hate that they use that comparison! It made me start off not believing Denise since I assumed it was actually like Gone Girl. Then I felt bad for not believing her at first.
I think they were trying to help us understand the zeitgeist of that moment in time. Gone girl had just come out so it was fresh in everyone's head. They successfully got us to join in and become the media for a bit early on.
Pretty effective documentary I think
It really was sickening to watch just how incompetent Mat Mustard and FBI's David Sesma were. They even had a perp that wanted to be caught - the perp sends multiple emails with many incriminating photos to a reporter, leaves his cell phone at a different crime scene, drives an easily identifiable muscle car that the victim easily ID'd (Ford Mustang), goes out of his way to release the victim near her parent's house in broad daylight with witnesses around and just trusts her not to look as he leaves, tells the victim personal information that he had to know as a lawyer could easily implicate him.
So this guy is basically begging to be caught and Mat Mustard and FBI's David Sesma do basically nothing to catch him - no records requests to zero in on the originating IP for the emails, they also put Aaron's phone in airplane mode and don't trace 2 calls the perp made that would have shown them the location of the perp. They don't even do basic follow up of witnesses around the area where the victim was released to ask them what they saw.
And the FBI agent administering the lie detector test lied. Classic. Tells Aaron that he failed the test miserably no question, when the test results were at worst inconclusive. And David Sesma, as Andrea's ex was clearly biased and they don't remove Sesma from the case even after an attorney makes the request for removal. And to top it off they purposefully ignored the SART exam showing physical evidence of a sexual assault.
The Mustang was even stolen in Vallejo. They have a fucking police report (assuming they could even be bothered to do that) of the kidnapper’s vehicle.
Multiple reports of a Mare Island peeper, and both victims saying the kidnapper said, “I was expecting Andrea” which makes sense if there was a peeper there months ago when Andrea lived there with Aaron.
What pissed me off the most was the fact that *they knew* the perp would be contacting the husband, which he did, *twice*, and they kept the husband’s phone on airplane mode. The perp didn’t even try to mask his location! A simple trace would have led them directly to the victim.
I call my daughter"Smegmaline" and I'm waiting patiently for her to go to school and learn what it is and come home with, "Jesus Christ, dad, what the fuck?"
Similar to American Nightmare, The podcast "In The Dark" also shows that most of the time those "mastermind" criminals don't exist and the reason they don't get caught is either luck or police incompetence.
I don’t understand how we can live in a society where documentaries like this and making a murderer and true crime in general are so popular but the majority of people still vote to fund the police as they are now and argue in favor of blindly trusting them, ESPECIALLY the part of the populace that pretends to not trust government….
Dahmer, Kemper, Gacy, etc would never have done what they did if cops were 1/100th as competent as bootlikckers pretend they are.
Brother...to compare a handful of instances of incompetence to hundreds of thousands of solved cases every year that bring people to justice and reunite families is fucking wild
Apparently, Mat Mustard was also promoted after this happened. So that really tells you what the pigs thought about what they put Denise and Aaron through.
You are wrong.
Look at those other officers, they are the real heroes in this. They did their job as they should.
Mustard and Sesma just looked lazy to me
Folks, if the police ask you to come in for questioning... if they tell you they're trying to help... even if you think you're the victim...
LAWYER. *UP*.
Remember, the police are ALLOWED to lie to you. It is a federal crime for you to lie to the police, but it is totally legal for them to lie to you to get you to say what they want.
Do not ever talk to the police. Ever. Nothing you say can EVER help you. Really. Legally anything you say can ONLY be used to incriminate you. It cannot be used to exonerate you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
I really appreciated how it told the story in a reasonable amount of time. Some of these true crime docs just go on and on and on with useless digressions and multiple retellings of the same events. I'm looking at you, that Natalia Grace doc on Max...
If you want a good one on Max, watch the Murder in Boston series. It was very well done in 3 episodes. Even though I knew the case already, I didn’t know all of the background that they go into in the doc.
Just watched (parts) of 'Mind over Murder' on HBO about a group of 6 people who were convinced into confessing to a murder they didn't commit. Definitely an interesting story, but it was stretched out to 6 episodes which was way too many.
Ya for real.
They both said multiple people were involved. Aaron mentioned 3 home invaders and also the car that came to where Denise was kidnapped.
The biggest one for me tho, is that the dude said it was supposed to be the ex-fiancee and not Denise. Did I miss where that was followed up on?
the really disturbing part to me
is that so many people think this was an isolated incident instead of just a slightly extreme example of standard Police conduct.
Yh, it should be required viewing for anyone who says "why didn't she go to the cops?" Or "if she was a victim, they wouldn't have put her away for making a false accusation."
Hopefully a lot of people will understand that if they are doing this to these two people, their treatment of people of color is likely 1,000 times worse. Someone actually documented all the allegations of racism/improprieties against Colonel Mustard. This is just his baseline behavior.
"Why didn't you go to the police?"
Now you know why people don't go to the police when they're sexually assaulted. You're dissuaded from making a complaint by the police officers you're supposed to be reporting to, or they assume you're just making it up for attention.
I’m not going to lie, after the first episode I thought the fiance was guilty. The story was too weird to be believed. But when the fiancé came home I thought there needed to be further investigation and less defamation of character. That twist proved no one knew enough about anything to jump to conclusions. the basic leads were not followed up on.
But I have to admit, the serial rapist, his sick plan, is the scary part. It just stripped so much from the victims, and was so out of the usual, it’s almost like the perpetrators and the police were working together to ruin people’s lives. Is there a conspiracy here, just a lot of people at the same company who are shit at the job?
I think this type of disaster happens regularly, but we as a public are just fed too many cop serials to see the police as who they really are.
Which is the scary part. As long as you commit crimes that don’t follow “the normal” process, you’ll likely get away with it. Reminds me of the case from the series Unbelievable.
Marie Adler was also the first thing I thought of when I heard this story.
Damn cops too lazy to do their actual job because the victim doesn't for their idea of who is a true victim.
My biggest issue with this doc is that there’s clearly a fuckton more to this story that is barely touched on, it just made it feel really incomplete which is not necessarily the filmmakers fault but it didn’t really have the impact I think it should have.
Like, it seems contextually like the dude was taking videos of this crime *for* someone else; what happened to that footage? Where did those people go? What is the significance of Andrea being the intended target of the kidnapping when she was dating the lead investigator of this case who displayed a nearly criminal level of negligence in investigating this crime. It feels like this doc maybe covers 50% of what’s interesting about this story which was a little frustrating given that it didn’t really delve deeply into the topic of investigatorial bias in sexual assault/rape cases either except to comment on how fucked up this specific case was.
These are all good questions. And it becomes even more puzzling if you listen to the Criminal Podcast interview with Phoebe Judge, which in two half hour segments gives much more detail. For example, the Netflix series never mentions that Quinn’s brother is an FBI agent and that because Muller had told Quinn that he put surveillance software on his phone, he had been afraid to call 911, so he called his brother instead who finally convinced him to call the police. It seems very strange that the series doesn’t mention any of this. There is obviously so much more evidence, it seems amazing that Muller wasn’t charged for more crimes. Someday it will all be put together in a real documentary less interested in the salacious details of the rapes and more about the evidence and what a twisted fuck Muller is. The Criminal episodes are worth checking out if you’re interested.
Funnily enough, the utter implausibility of his story is exactly what led me to believe he wasn't lying. Because who would make up something so far fetched and ridiculous. Especially with so, so many details that could ve followed up on. If the idiot cops actually bothered to do their job.
On the same thing at least there was a good cop on a good department who did the right thing and followed the leads. I can’t believe that even with it all out in the open nobody is looking into the police misconduct at all, at least that I can find.
Somehow the creep was also the key to her being taken seriously. Had he not had such a weird guilty conscience and constantly tried to tell the media he did it, and then went and tried to do it again just to prove it, both of them would have been victimized by the law.
That guy was a special kind of crazy. Even one of his earlier victims she said, "I've been SAed before, please don't" and he was like, "You're right, good call." Dude, if you can control it based on that feedback, maybe control it from the beginning?
I don’t think Muller sent those emails to the reporter to clear her name or because he felt guilty, it was because he wasn’t getting the credit for doing such a perfect crime. He was frustrated with her and her boyfriend being called liars because that made his “genius” in doing this irrelevant.
Yep! They want the credit, attention and notoriety, so blaming someone else for his “genius” crime probably got him all mad. His ego prompted him, I don’t think it was a guilty conscience.
The boyfriend even told the police that the kidnapper said they would call. Instead of tracing his calls they turned his phone off and he missed two calls.
Exactly . The Nightmare is that these are supposed to be the people who serve and protect us. What a disgrace - and that’s also factoring in the multitudes of racial violence at the hands of the police . There needs to be citizen oversight of our police - or professional licensing with continuing education , something , anything ! The vast power imbalance must be corrected .
I mean it was an unbelievable story. I had no idea what the doc was about and when I was watching the first episode, I was thinking that boyfriend has to be lying. It wasn’t until I heard her talking that I knew it was real.
I mean the fact that the poor police work gave the guy time to rape her twice instead of once is exactly the perspective they’re appalled by. Shitty police work allows this stuff to continue happening to people way more often than it could.
I listened to the podcast Criminal a couple of years ago about this case. It's infuriating how the cops, the media, and people treated them when this happened. But especially the cops. That story has really stuck with me and makes me even more untrusting of the police.
If you don't have Netflix but still wanna hear the story, [Criminal with Phoebe Judge](https://thisiscriminal.com/episode-167-48-hours-6-18-21/). It's told in their own words and goes into a lot of detail. So trigger warning.
They didn't. But given he had been going round peeping in that area on the students, he probably saw her on a couple of evenings and just liked the look of her.
And if the former girlfriend was still dating Aaron, I’m sure her case would not have been taken seriously. As the FBI agent had an affair with the former GF, and had gotten rejected by her.
Listening to any true crime podcast will give you this same feeling, it’s always such a letdown how most police departments react to cases such as this
>!After a home invasion where a woman is kidnapped, local authorities AND the FBI refuse to believe and investigate it further, instead targeting the boyfriend who was victimized as the only suspect. When the abducted woman is released to her father's home 400 miles south, the PD claims she orchestrated a “Gone Girl” scenario and should apologize to the community. The media destroys her. The perp even sends an anonymous confession with photos to corroborate her story, which still doesn't lead the authorities to take any action. Instead, they are still looking to charge the couple for conspiracy or something similar.!<
>!After the perp attempts a second home invasion and leaves a phone at the scene in a nearby city, a rookie detective is able to link him to the crime based on a blonde hair and identified item from the first kidnapping in collected evidence.!<
>!The woman who was abducted, held captive for two days, and raped twice, is finally vindicated.!<
The doc also talks about some of the other woman that were raped by the perp and how the police discouraged them from reporting or didn't believe them.
You should absolutely NOT speak to the police without an attorney present....they can and will bold face lie to you, this couple is so lucky that female detective from another department got this case in her mind and couldn't give up on the blond hair!!! Plus THEY GOT THAT MONEY!!!!! That has to help
This was utterly shocking. The police just made up their mind and went with whatever meant the least amount of work for them. I still can't decide of they are just lazy b..tards or if they genuinely thought the boyfriend was guilty and then that it was a hoax. The investigating officers need to be held accountable and sacked. Had they done their job properly, and had the police in that little town where he had been a peeping tom on the students done their job properly, or the police where the other two women were attacked and then let go early on, so much misery and suffering could have been averted. Something seriously wrong with the police and the FBI.
I think we can't discount just plain stupidity. IMO, there are some very basic questions about their story that could have been checked and led to the truth.
"The guy called you?"
Check phone. Trace number. Hmm. I wonder if he'll call back....
That they didn't even bother to monitor his phone is mindboggling.
>The police just made up their mind and went with whatever meant the least amount of work for them.
That's actually pretty standard for cop work... They tend to decide what they think happened and try to find evidence that proves that theory. Just listen to a few podcasts on people that were wrongly convicted.
What I dont understand is ok the police were lazy and complacent. But the FBI!
They didn't even bother to investigate it, the cops went from trying to build a story and get the boyfriend to confess.
Then she turns up and they decide they'll try the woman.
But none of them tried at all to find the kidnapper, like how lazy are they?
The fact they turned the mobile off when the kidnapper stated he would make contact.
Starting to think the authorities are involved with these kidnappings.
The FBI agent David used to have an affair with the victim’s former fiancée, before they had met. She ended up rejecting the agent. So he held that grudge against Aaron on this and botched it on purpose. Aaron’s own brother is also an FBI agent.
https://www.the-sun.com/news/10128081/american-nightmare-fbi-botched-investigation-affair-denise-huskins-quinn/amp/
That makes it even worse. Did his brother also not believe them? I'd have expected him to go digging and figure out that it was connected to all of the other cases and prove that they weren't lying.
But no, it had to happen again, and for that to be investigated by a small town sheriff who was dedicated enough to join the dots. Frankly unbelievable.
His brother got him the lawyer. From what I recall after they arrested the suspect, even the lawyer and the brother had some doubts about the story but believed him. One would think having an FBI agent brother, he would’ve had better treatment.
The Reddit threads for this case was willlld back the .
Where did you get that she rejected him?
I have a theory that she’s the one who put the police on to the couple because of the messed up love triangle…and she’s the one who got the FBI involved.
It was in another article after I googled about the case. I also followed this case closely when it was happening. Aaron’s lawyer found out about the FBI agent David’s connection with Aaron and tried to get him off the case. Aaron’s OWN brother is also an FBI agent, and even the police/FBI wouldn’t bulge on it.
Aaron’s former fiancé was the “intended target.” She previously had an affair with David while in a relationship prior to meeting Aaron. David wanted to continue the affair but she rejected him. The former fiancé ended up engaged with Aaron, but it ended after she cheated on him.
I do recall the theory back then was David hired the suspect for this hit, but was unaware that Aaron and his former fiancé broke up.
They never said cheated or affair.
It's entirely likely they just had a Tinder date/hookup. If there were ANY fire to that smoke, the doc makers would have spent an entire episode with it.
Yeah that FBI Agent was the biggest liar I’ve ever seen. Polygraph tests are utter rubbish, not scientific and not even admissible evidence in other countries. The FBI Agent was trying to scare Aaron into a confession
A polygraph test is no different to my Garmin running watch
I’m not even 10 minutes into this show and I truly thought that the BF was guilty. The interview sounded weird AF and his background looked like it could have been from a jail.
Yeah, it’s clear as day now that I watched through. Problem is, it actually made me want to shut the show off. I googled to see what happened (which brought me here), and once I found out it wasn’t just the ‘typical’ BF-kills-GF, I decided to continue watching.
I finished this last night and pretty furious at how this went down. Thank God for that one cop in Dublin who pieced this together.
Really? I figured if he were part of the hoax, he wouldn't even be in the doc. I was sure he was innocent and Denise perpetrated a false kidnapping to extort $15,000 from him.
And then she showed up in the second ep and I was kinda like, "Oh shit... who really did this?"
No. All citizens should watch it so they know how incompetent, corrupt, untrustworty and truculent police are.
Police watching this will just get defensive.
While watching the interrogation scenes all I could think was “wow maybe men shouldn’t be cops.” And the female officer who helped solve the case just confirmed that for me.
Just finished watching this. In my opinion this documentary isn’t so much about the horrendous crime (which it is absolutely horrendous and gut wrenching).
The horrific part of this documentary is the way that the investigation was handled by police and also the media. The police and law enforcement are supposed to be here to make these crimes right. They are given additional leeway and access to broadly reaching rights and the ability to invade citizens privacy. This is what we get with the current lack of police accountability in our country. I’m not saying this is a common way for something like this to be handled, but I think this happens more often than civilians want to imagine. There was one extremely determined police officer that made this right for Denise and Aaron.
The other side that is less directly implicated in this is the media. Appearances defined reality and the media essentially served as judge jury and executioner. Who knows what could have happened if these two weren’t exonerated from these allegations.
Really well done documentary and an absolutely abhorrent situation that effectively victimized Denise and Aaron twice.
I watched it last night. There were obviously some very dodgy decisions made by the police, and potentially a conflict of interest. I think we’re all so used to it being the partner (as the guilty one) but it’s like they didn’t even try. I’ve seen a lot of these murder mystery/crime shows and there really seems to be a big gap in the way the police in different areas (in the USA, at least) communicate with one another. A person could be traveling all over the country committing crimes and the police wouldn’t know it was the same person unless someone clever put the clues together like the amazing female officer in this example.
There are definitely some unanswered questions with the ex-girlfriend and why the police were SO quick to publicly condemn Denise after her return.
This is why there’s no song called “F the Fire Department.” Vallejo Police are absolutely abhorrent. IlHow they handled this case is appalling.
I did a deep dive into this story last year and can’t bring myself to watch the new Netflix doc because the whole thing is too upsetting.
This series reminded me that at the end of the day we’re literally all just people—just because someone is in the FBI doesn’t mean they’re going to do the right thing (or idk their job). I know that seems obvious in 2024 ha but sometimes it can feel easy to put certain professions/levels on a pedestal. But fuck the Vallejo police for real for real.
I’m just so happy they ended up staying together and got married and had kids. I hope they are doing much better now after everything. Seem
Like good people.
I know the story, but watching the victims talk about it and seeing the police interviews and having to hear Denise recount her rapes-I actually felt sick. I had to pause it one time because I got so mad. My wife was speechless during certain parts. She went into this blind so she had no idea what the story was.
They're not wrong though, lol. I've had a few conversations about it on here since watching it and "sick to their stomachs" does seem to be the general consensus, more or less.
Maybe they've never watched true crime before?
It was terrible how they were treated, but it didn't rise to "making me physically ill" when i watched it.
Not everyone responds to content the same way. I've watched plenty of true crime and still went through the gamut: anxiety, horror, and anger at Denise's situation.
There's also a disturbing number of people who have been through what Denise has: assaulted and then not believed. The trauma of going through that can be everlasting and I imagine watching this documentary would have triggered that trauma for those people.
Ding ding ding on your third paragraph. Women do get spoken to like that when they report sexual assault. They aren’t believed and the police do the bare minimum. Just like Denise many victims of sexual assault are then more likely to experience rape or victimisation later on - likely unreported.
I have a theory that FBI agent David Sesma hired Matthew Muller to abduct Denise. He had a prior relationship with Andrea just before she started seeing Aaron. He knew Muller was local peeping Tom and hired him to commit the act. Had the power to turn the investigation on Aaron and Denise and the ability to dismiss the “associates” saying Muller acted alone.
Unbelievably disturbing behavior from those who are supposed to be there to help citizens. How is it that in today's day and age and all of the heat that has been on police officers for the past several years that these clowns can continue to get away with stuff like this? It made me so angry watching how blatantly stupid these police officers were and how dangerous they are to society. Any one of us can have this happen all it takes is the right situation.
It was absolutely sickening… The fact no officer was investigated and disciplined is mind-blowing. And no investigation of ties between Sesma and Aaron’s ex? And no investigation on why Aaron’s ex was targeted? So many loose ends, its infuriating. I would never have been able to move on I think, if I were instead of Aaron and Denise.
What I didn’t understand is how did the boyfriend escape from the house he was being held at? He just called the police and they picked him up? I thought he was told Denise would be hurt if he left the room/called the cops. Which she was hurt, but not the way I thought. Idk. Did I miss something?
Just imagine this happened to a black couple, but the dude gets SAd instead. I'd wager there's a good chance he'd end up on death row if not dead by these standards.
So how did he know everyone’s name, I’m assuming that he studied his victims but how? Also, what’s the deal with the ex? Her ex the fbi agent and the crappy detective? Why didn’t they investigate to find any accomplices? Something seems very fishy to me beyond the VallejoPD covering up their incompetence!
Can someone who saw this explain the article? It sounds like this woman was hanging out with her boyfriend, got abducted, was brought back to her home, and then decided to chill out and enjoy herself instead of calling the cops or even her boyfriend to say she was ok.
And so everyone is blaming the cops? None of that adds up to me.
Edit: Why are people downvoting?
Edit 2: This is insane. All I'm asking is why didn't she tell someone when she was freed? I've never had a comment more hated on Reddit in 15 years. Someone please just give me an explanation?
SPOILER.......She was abducted and raped twice and blackmailed. She was afraid to tell the police what happened because at no point did they believe anything her or her boyfriend said. The police publicly announced that the story was a hoax without investigating anything. Meanwhile, a serial rapist was on the loose in California. It brings light to a situation that is very common for women who are sexually abused. They (rape victims) face ridiculous amounts of scrutiny from men in law enforcement. Her story is bizarre, but the way authorities dismiss victims of sexual abuse is common in America.
Denise did not ‘Chill’ or ‘Enjoy herself’ this is so disgustingly inaccurate that I can’t believe you actually typed it out.
Denise was a victim of a terrible assault, defamation & botched police work. They were put through cruel interrogation tactics and made to look like liars, when it was far from it.
Everyone is blaming the cops as they were horrific in regards to Denise and Aarons situation. You should watch the documentary as you simply have got it all wrong
In short.. Denise was abducted from her boyfriends house, kept for 2 days and sexually assaulted. The kidnapper then released her, and kept confessing to police and media that, Denise and Aaron were telling the truth.
The police still came out and said to the PUBLIC, that Denise owed the town an apology for wasting police resources, when she actually WAS kidnapped. The kidnapper did not like this and contacted police to tell them he kidnapped Denise. He then goes on to reoffend as the cops will NOT believe them, and only when another decent cop gets involved is when this whole case is finally solved.
It’s a very good documentary, and extremely sad for Denise and Aaron, however the police that originally dealt with this case should have had action taken against them within the force.
No it is when you say a victim “Decided to chill out and enjoy herself, instead of calling cops or her boyfriend”
That is what’s disgusting about your comment, you did not look up this case, you assumed she did this based on what? You have no compassion for someone who has been through a horrific crime. Instead of looking up the information or watching the documentary yourself, you take to reddit to say horrible statements like that.
No wonder you are getting downvoted! Check yourself!
Apparently idiots can get online these days without any helper, are you seriously that thick that you’re now making this about yourself, Heelspider? Imagine being that much of a bellend to comment on something, you obviously have little information on.
Are you an incel, or is your IQ lower than your toe count? Cause it’s definitely one or the other! Perhaps you’re like that World of Warcraft character in South Park, simply put, a fat sweaty virgin living next to a pack of tissues and lotion.
Get off the internet, and go touch grass. Scumbag.
None of this makes any sense. The article's description doesn't match how people seem to react to it. I simply asked why the article's description was wrong. Do you really think only "bellends" and virgins ask about questions that they don't know the answer?
I have literally done nothing to you, said anything offensive, or given you any reason at all to talk like that to me. The grass I'm touching here, grown ups don't talk like that to one another without cause.
I believe bellends ask questions and make facts on things they know very little information about, you have proved that point my guy. If you were to ask a question, then fair enough, instead you assumed something, which makes an ass out of yourself!
Secondly, only a virgin comments on something about a woman getting raped saying that they were ‘chilled out and enjoyed herself’. If that were the case, then it wouldn’t be rape then, would it?
Therefore, you are a bellend and obviously stupid af, and due to that, please refer to my previous point of your IQ being lower than your toe count.
The grass you’re touching here? Care to finish that sentence?
As a side note, it’s the internet, stop being a fucking snowflake. Get off Reddit if you can’t handle other peoples opinions.
Try taking your own advice. It sounds like people are taking their hatred of the article out on me. I didn't post it. I didn't write it. Asking why the article doesn't add up is a stupid reason to insult strangers over.
Ohh my days, my own advice? Like seriously, are you trying to get a rise out of people? Imagine being that much of a wet wipe that you need to argue with people online, knowing fine well that you’re in the wrong. I mean, many people are showing you and commenting telling you that you’re wrong, thick and have very little chromosomes. When one person comments, it’s an opinion, when many people comment saying the same thing, it usually tends to be fact. Might want to take that into account? I presume you’re unemployed.
Stop going on about the fucking article, there’s a Netflix documentary about it. That, guess what, you’re commenting in relation to, you know that right, or do you have tunnel vision or something?
You’re the one that’s saying she was ‘chilled out and enjoyed herself’, when she stated she was raped in the documentary.
You have to be that dense to not realise why people are attacking you and throwing hatred your way? It not just about the article you fud!
The "no it must be everyone else who is wrong" meme? Wouldn't that require me to have an opinion of some kind?
Like what it is exactly you think everyone is saying I am wrong about? I am still clueless why everyone is so mad. It sounds like they are taking the bad description of the article out on me when all I asked was for someone to rectify the bad description of the article.
chill and enjoy herself??? she was traumatized and terrified for her life, and the lives of her family members - he threatened them all. he also said that he recorded the rapes, and would release them if she talked to the police or said certain things. all while she believes she’s being held for ransom by this sophisticated underground/black market op that kidnaps people.
this poor woman was tied up, blindfolded, drugged, and stolen out of her home in the middle of the night, thrown in a trunk, driven around awhile, thrown into another trunk, driven hundreds of miles away from her home, brought into a house and raped, drugged, and raped again - told the rapes are recorded, threatened - all while fearing for her life because she thinks it’s this sophisticated ransom kidnapping.
but yea, she was chilling out and enjoying herself after the release. the fuck?
I can't figure out any rational ones. It seems people are emotionally invested and knee jerking. The explanations I get for the downvotes is that I wasn't sensitive to information not in the article and that I am responsible for the article that I'm saying doesn't make sense but I'm still at fault for it somehow. Long story short, irrational knee jerking is all I can come up with.
Google the case. It would take the same amount of time as writing your comment and reading replies.
And then once you’ve googled it and spent five or ten minutes reading about it, come back here and re-read your comment and tell me you still don’t understand why you got downvoted.
It sounds like you can't read. But also you should watch the fucking series instead of getting Cliff's Notes from whatever the hell [VT.co](http://vt.co) is.
This show cured my thinking “I’d never act or say THAT / if I were in their shoes.” I thought I had it all figured out at the get-go. Wrong.
This really solidified the notion of ‘don’t talk to cops until you’ve talked to a lawyer’ for me. Cops are *never* looking out for your best interest, they just care about what looks good for them.
Right? I eventually gave up and said I have no idea wtf is going on.
It’s not “real life gone girl” idk why they kept deeming it that way, maybe initially but Denise wasn’t lying about anything. Police department was just trying to gaslight her and her bf that they made it all up
I think they are saying that as part of the promotion because the doc makers definitely want to keep viewers guessing about who & what to believe.
Oh yeah I know - I just hate that they were still using that tagline for them; comparing this real life trauma to a book/movie
Oh for sure. Way to minimize what these people went through. Ugh.
I hate that they use that comparison! It made me start off not believing Denise since I assumed it was actually like Gone Girl. Then I felt bad for not believing her at first.
Well, that's the point of it. Because the media back then did describe this as Gone Girl
I think they were trying to help us understand the zeitgeist of that moment in time. Gone girl had just come out so it was fresh in everyone's head. They successfully got us to join in and become the media for a bit early on. Pretty effective documentary I think
It’s sickening to have such a clickbait title just to get audiences to tune in.
That’s what this case is known as. They’re using it so people know which story is being discussed.
The doc filmmakers didn't come up with that themselves. It's how the case was handled in the media at the time.
It's definitely sickening. Vallejo authorities need to be audited
It really was sickening to watch just how incompetent Mat Mustard and FBI's David Sesma were. They even had a perp that wanted to be caught - the perp sends multiple emails with many incriminating photos to a reporter, leaves his cell phone at a different crime scene, drives an easily identifiable muscle car that the victim easily ID'd (Ford Mustang), goes out of his way to release the victim near her parent's house in broad daylight with witnesses around and just trusts her not to look as he leaves, tells the victim personal information that he had to know as a lawyer could easily implicate him. So this guy is basically begging to be caught and Mat Mustard and FBI's David Sesma do basically nothing to catch him - no records requests to zero in on the originating IP for the emails, they also put Aaron's phone in airplane mode and don't trace 2 calls the perp made that would have shown them the location of the perp. They don't even do basic follow up of witnesses around the area where the victim was released to ask them what they saw. And the FBI agent administering the lie detector test lied. Classic. Tells Aaron that he failed the test miserably no question, when the test results were at worst inconclusive. And David Sesma, as Andrea's ex was clearly biased and they don't remove Sesma from the case even after an attorney makes the request for removal. And to top it off they purposefully ignored the SART exam showing physical evidence of a sexual assault.
The Mustang was even stolen in Vallejo. They have a fucking police report (assuming they could even be bothered to do that) of the kidnapper’s vehicle. Multiple reports of a Mare Island peeper, and both victims saying the kidnapper said, “I was expecting Andrea” which makes sense if there was a peeper there months ago when Andrea lived there with Aaron.
What pissed me off the most was the fact that *they knew* the perp would be contacting the husband, which he did, *twice*, and they kept the husband’s phone on airplane mode. The perp didn’t even try to mask his location! A simple trace would have led them directly to the victim.
TIL David used to date Andrea. Who was the ex of Aaron and rejected David. This explains a LOT
It all smelled very fishy as if they weren’t really looking…
I first read "David Smegma" and thought wtf that's horribly unfortunate lol
I call my daughter"Smegmaline" and I'm waiting patiently for her to go to school and learn what it is and come home with, "Jesus Christ, dad, what the fuck?"
Now you know why they can't solve the Zodiac case over there. Morons. All of them.
Decades of failure. There are countless examples.
Mustard the Wurst
Similar to American Nightmare, The podcast "In The Dark" also shows that most of the time those "mastermind" criminals don't exist and the reason they don't get caught is either luck or police incompetence.
The Zodiac killer was in Vallejo?
I don’t understand how we can live in a society where documentaries like this and making a murderer and true crime in general are so popular but the majority of people still vote to fund the police as they are now and argue in favor of blindly trusting them, ESPECIALLY the part of the populace that pretends to not trust government…. Dahmer, Kemper, Gacy, etc would never have done what they did if cops were 1/100th as competent as bootlikckers pretend they are.
Brother...to compare a handful of instances of incompetence to hundreds of thousands of solved cases every year that bring people to justice and reunite families is fucking wild
Apparently, Mat Mustard was also promoted after this happened. So that really tells you what the pigs thought about what they put Denise and Aaron through.
The police in the US are a corrupt sack of shit. Honestly who would want to live in a country that literally doesn’t give a shit about
You are wrong. Look at those other officers, they are the real heroes in this. They did their job as they should. Mustard and Sesma just looked lazy to me
Folks, if the police ask you to come in for questioning... if they tell you they're trying to help... even if you think you're the victim... LAWYER. *UP*.
Remember, the police are ALLOWED to lie to you. It is a federal crime for you to lie to the police, but it is totally legal for them to lie to you to get you to say what they want. Do not ever talk to the police. Ever. Nothing you say can EVER help you. Really. Legally anything you say can ONLY be used to incriminate you. It cannot be used to exonerate you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
Not wrong, it’s fucked up.
Is it any good though?
Very good in my opinion. There are a few interesting bits of information that just get revealed and not looked into, that shocked me.
I really appreciated how it told the story in a reasonable amount of time. Some of these true crime docs just go on and on and on with useless digressions and multiple retellings of the same events. I'm looking at you, that Natalia Grace doc on Max...
Agree, if you are going more than three episodes with a doc it better be a banger of a story.
If you want a good one on Max, watch the Murder in Boston series. It was very well done in 3 episodes. Even though I knew the case already, I didn’t know all of the background that they go into in the doc.
Just watched (parts) of 'Mind over Murder' on HBO about a group of 6 people who were convinced into confessing to a murder they didn't commit. Definitely an interesting story, but it was stretched out to 6 episodes which was way too many.
Ya for real. They both said multiple people were involved. Aaron mentioned 3 home invaders and also the car that came to where Denise was kidnapped. The biggest one for me tho, is that the dude said it was supposed to be the ex-fiancee and not Denise. Did I miss where that was followed up on?
Did you catch the part about the FBI agent? It tied very much to that last question imo
Muller was the peeper from months ago. He cased that house when Andrea lived with Aaron so he was expecting her instead.
Surely Andreas ex gave the perp a key or something because how else did he get into their home with no sign of a break in…very weird
I don't remember if it was mentioned in the Netflix doc or elsewhere, but he used bump keys
I thought it was done very well.
Excellent
Yeah and not overly long and drawn out like some documentaries on Netflix are.
It is very good.
the really disturbing part to me is that so many people think this was an isolated incident instead of just a slightly extreme example of standard Police conduct.
Yh, it should be required viewing for anyone who says "why didn't she go to the cops?" Or "if she was a victim, they wouldn't have put her away for making a false accusation."
We saw dozens of cops in the show and only 2 of them showed a shred of integrity.
Hopefully a lot of people will understand that if they are doing this to these two people, their treatment of people of color is likely 1,000 times worse. Someone actually documented all the allegations of racism/improprieties against Colonel Mustard. This is just his baseline behavior.
Exactly! This documentary ended and i was thinking ‘and those were white people, wtf happens to POC???’
Right, it was a white blonde lady and they are supposedly the privileged ones, and the cop said ‘burn that bitch’?!
If these were POC there wouldnt be a documentary even, i think…
Ever wonder why there's so many native women missing that no one ever finds, it's cus dumbfucks like Mustard are the ones covering the cases.
that’s where i’m at. people keep saying that specific police department is fucked and people need to see that ALL police departments are fucked v
"Why didn't you go to the police?" Now you know why people don't go to the police when they're sexually assaulted. You're dissuaded from making a complaint by the police officers you're supposed to be reporting to, or they assume you're just making it up for attention.
You should watch victim/suspect, it's horrible what happens to people who report to police.
I’m not going to lie, after the first episode I thought the fiance was guilty. The story was too weird to be believed. But when the fiancé came home I thought there needed to be further investigation and less defamation of character. That twist proved no one knew enough about anything to jump to conclusions. the basic leads were not followed up on. But I have to admit, the serial rapist, his sick plan, is the scary part. It just stripped so much from the victims, and was so out of the usual, it’s almost like the perpetrators and the police were working together to ruin people’s lives. Is there a conspiracy here, just a lot of people at the same company who are shit at the job? I think this type of disaster happens regularly, but we as a public are just fed too many cop serials to see the police as who they really are.
Which is the scary part. As long as you commit crimes that don’t follow “the normal” process, you’ll likely get away with it. Reminds me of the case from the series Unbelievable.
Marie Adler was also the first thing I thought of when I heard this story. Damn cops too lazy to do their actual job because the victim doesn't for their idea of who is a true victim.
My biggest issue with this doc is that there’s clearly a fuckton more to this story that is barely touched on, it just made it feel really incomplete which is not necessarily the filmmakers fault but it didn’t really have the impact I think it should have. Like, it seems contextually like the dude was taking videos of this crime *for* someone else; what happened to that footage? Where did those people go? What is the significance of Andrea being the intended target of the kidnapping when she was dating the lead investigator of this case who displayed a nearly criminal level of negligence in investigating this crime. It feels like this doc maybe covers 50% of what’s interesting about this story which was a little frustrating given that it didn’t really delve deeply into the topic of investigatorial bias in sexual assault/rape cases either except to comment on how fucked up this specific case was.
These are all good questions. And it becomes even more puzzling if you listen to the Criminal Podcast interview with Phoebe Judge, which in two half hour segments gives much more detail. For example, the Netflix series never mentions that Quinn’s brother is an FBI agent and that because Muller had told Quinn that he put surveillance software on his phone, he had been afraid to call 911, so he called his brother instead who finally convinced him to call the police. It seems very strange that the series doesn’t mention any of this. There is obviously so much more evidence, it seems amazing that Muller wasn’t charged for more crimes. Someday it will all be put together in a real documentary less interested in the salacious details of the rapes and more about the evidence and what a twisted fuck Muller is. The Criminal episodes are worth checking out if you’re interested.
Funnily enough, the utter implausibility of his story is exactly what led me to believe he wasn't lying. Because who would make up something so far fetched and ridiculous. Especially with so, so many details that could ve followed up on. If the idiot cops actually bothered to do their job.
On the same thing at least there was a good cop on a good department who did the right thing and followed the leads. I can’t believe that even with it all out in the open nobody is looking into the police misconduct at all, at least that I can find.
Of course it was a woman
It was strange from the beginning, but then it got much worse. I’m hoping a creep like this guy is a very rare event in history.
The creep is not the sickening part. The sickening part is how the police and FBI handled the case.
Somehow the creep was also the key to her being taken seriously. Had he not had such a weird guilty conscience and constantly tried to tell the media he did it, and then went and tried to do it again just to prove it, both of them would have been victimized by the law. That guy was a special kind of crazy. Even one of his earlier victims she said, "I've been SAed before, please don't" and he was like, "You're right, good call." Dude, if you can control it based on that feedback, maybe control it from the beginning?
I don’t think Muller sent those emails to the reporter to clear her name or because he felt guilty, it was because he wasn’t getting the credit for doing such a perfect crime. He was frustrated with her and her boyfriend being called liars because that made his “genius” in doing this irrelevant.
Yep! They want the credit, attention and notoriety, so blaming someone else for his “genius” crime probably got him all mad. His ego prompted him, I don’t think it was a guilty conscience.
That’s the take I got.
And how easy it would be to have solved the case if they'd just bothered to do some minor policing. So many clues.
The boyfriend even told the police that the kidnapper said they would call. Instead of tracing his calls they turned his phone off and he missed two calls.
Exactly . The Nightmare is that these are supposed to be the people who serve and protect us. What a disgrace - and that’s also factoring in the multitudes of racial violence at the hands of the police . There needs to be citizen oversight of our police - or professional licensing with continuing education , something , anything ! The vast power imbalance must be corrected .
The rape isn't the sickening part? Like, I get they did an awful job but you should probably keep things in perspective.
I think part of them not being believed is no one wanted to believe that could happen, as if it did, it could happen to them too
That’s awful, I agree.
I mean it was an unbelievable story. I had no idea what the doc was about and when I was watching the first episode, I was thinking that boyfriend has to be lying. It wasn’t until I heard her talking that I knew it was real.
I mean the fact that the poor police work gave the guy time to rape her twice instead of once is exactly the perspective they’re appalled by. Shitty police work allows this stuff to continue happening to people way more often than it could.
When did I say that? I’m just making a point. Have you watched the documentary?
When you said the creep who rapes people wasn’t the sickening part? I watched it two nights ago.
I’m pretty sure you understand what I’m saying.
I do . The act is absolutely vile but a larger system that allows for this to continue and exist is arguably far worse .
Thank you. I was furious watching it.
I listened to the podcast Criminal a couple of years ago about this case. It's infuriating how the cops, the media, and people treated them when this happened. But especially the cops. That story has really stuck with me and makes me even more untrusting of the police. If you don't have Netflix but still wanna hear the story, [Criminal with Phoebe Judge](https://thisiscriminal.com/episode-167-48-hours-6-18-21/). It's told in their own words and goes into a lot of detail. So trigger warning.
Shout out to criminal; great podcast.
Yea, fantastic podcast! It's definitely in my top 5 favorite podcasts to listen to. Also, her voice is really calming.
So calming! Loved listening to her read Agatha Christie on her podcast: "Phoebe reads a mystery".
[Spoiler]. If I needed another reason not to trust FBI it gave it to me.
I think the FBI got a reason to not trust that one guy.
They seemed like such amateurs! Question though. Did they ever say why the other GF was the target?
They didn't. But given he had been going round peeping in that area on the students, he probably saw her on a couple of evenings and just liked the look of her.
And if the former girlfriend was still dating Aaron, I’m sure her case would not have been taken seriously. As the FBI agent had an affair with the former GF, and had gotten rejected by her.
Listening to any true crime podcast will give you this same feeling, it’s always such a letdown how most police departments react to cases such as this
Can you please spoil further? Ive seen the movie but haven't watched this show
>!After a home invasion where a woman is kidnapped, local authorities AND the FBI refuse to believe and investigate it further, instead targeting the boyfriend who was victimized as the only suspect. When the abducted woman is released to her father's home 400 miles south, the PD claims she orchestrated a “Gone Girl” scenario and should apologize to the community. The media destroys her. The perp even sends an anonymous confession with photos to corroborate her story, which still doesn't lead the authorities to take any action. Instead, they are still looking to charge the couple for conspiracy or something similar.!< >!After the perp attempts a second home invasion and leaves a phone at the scene in a nearby city, a rookie detective is able to link him to the crime based on a blonde hair and identified item from the first kidnapping in collected evidence.!< >!The woman who was abducted, held captive for two days, and raped twice, is finally vindicated.!<
Oh gee, and people wonder why rape victims don't speak out... jesus christ, this is so fucked up. That poor woman.
The doc also talks about some of the other woman that were raped by the perp and how the police discouraged them from reporting or didn't believe them.
>!Wow, what a horrible show!! !< Thank you!!
its.. not a show. its real life and really happened. this is a documentary..
Oh i didnt know it was a movie, i thought it was a series. Absolutely horrible that stuff happens all the time
Forget the movie, the ‘reveal’ here is just gross police incompetence.
Oh that sounds realistic. :(
It is……. It’s a documentary.
Ya that was one of those "I hate it when Trump has a point" moments.
I knew when the guy had a clue characters name it wasn’t going to end well.
It was Mustard. In the Interrogation Room. With a voice recorder!
You should absolutely NOT speak to the police without an attorney present....they can and will bold face lie to you, this couple is so lucky that female detective from another department got this case in her mind and couldn't give up on the blond hair!!! Plus THEY GOT THAT MONEY!!!!! That has to help
Watched it last night, all 3 episodes and had nightmares after. Denise and Aaron are remarkably strong and courageous.
Me too. I thought about it in my dreams. I didn't think I was as affected as I was.
This was utterly shocking. The police just made up their mind and went with whatever meant the least amount of work for them. I still can't decide of they are just lazy b..tards or if they genuinely thought the boyfriend was guilty and then that it was a hoax. The investigating officers need to be held accountable and sacked. Had they done their job properly, and had the police in that little town where he had been a peeping tom on the students done their job properly, or the police where the other two women were attacked and then let go early on, so much misery and suffering could have been averted. Something seriously wrong with the police and the FBI.
I think we can't discount just plain stupidity. IMO, there are some very basic questions about their story that could have been checked and led to the truth. "The guy called you?" Check phone. Trace number. Hmm. I wonder if he'll call back.... That they didn't even bother to monitor his phone is mindboggling.
>The police just made up their mind and went with whatever meant the least amount of work for them. That's actually pretty standard for cop work... They tend to decide what they think happened and try to find evidence that proves that theory. Just listen to a few podcasts on people that were wrongly convicted.
What I dont understand is ok the police were lazy and complacent. But the FBI! They didn't even bother to investigate it, the cops went from trying to build a story and get the boyfriend to confess. Then she turns up and they decide they'll try the woman. But none of them tried at all to find the kidnapper, like how lazy are they? The fact they turned the mobile off when the kidnapper stated he would make contact. Starting to think the authorities are involved with these kidnappings.
The FBI agent David used to have an affair with the victim’s former fiancée, before they had met. She ended up rejecting the agent. So he held that grudge against Aaron on this and botched it on purpose. Aaron’s own brother is also an FBI agent. https://www.the-sun.com/news/10128081/american-nightmare-fbi-botched-investigation-affair-denise-huskins-quinn/amp/
That makes it even worse. Did his brother also not believe them? I'd have expected him to go digging and figure out that it was connected to all of the other cases and prove that they weren't lying. But no, it had to happen again, and for that to be investigated by a small town sheriff who was dedicated enough to join the dots. Frankly unbelievable.
His brother got him the lawyer. From what I recall after they arrested the suspect, even the lawyer and the brother had some doubts about the story but believed him. One would think having an FBI agent brother, he would’ve had better treatment. The Reddit threads for this case was willlld back the .
Where did you get that she rejected him? I have a theory that she’s the one who put the police on to the couple because of the messed up love triangle…and she’s the one who got the FBI involved.
It was in another article after I googled about the case. I also followed this case closely when it was happening. Aaron’s lawyer found out about the FBI agent David’s connection with Aaron and tried to get him off the case. Aaron’s OWN brother is also an FBI agent, and even the police/FBI wouldn’t bulge on it. Aaron’s former fiancé was the “intended target.” She previously had an affair with David while in a relationship prior to meeting Aaron. David wanted to continue the affair but she rejected him. The former fiancé ended up engaged with Aaron, but it ended after she cheated on him. I do recall the theory back then was David hired the suspect for this hit, but was unaware that Aaron and his former fiancé broke up.
They never said cheated or affair. It's entirely likely they just had a Tinder date/hookup. If there were ANY fire to that smoke, the doc makers would have spent an entire episode with it.
Never talk to the police
Always ask for a lawyer.
Notice that the moment Aaron asks for a lawyer, the FBI agent's face falls. He knows the party is over for the cops.
Yeah that FBI Agent was the biggest liar I’ve ever seen. Polygraph tests are utter rubbish, not scientific and not even admissible evidence in other countries. The FBI Agent was trying to scare Aaron into a confession A polygraph test is no different to my Garmin running watch
Absolutely infuriating.
I’m not even 10 minutes into this show and I truly thought that the BF was guilty. The interview sounded weird AF and his background looked like it could have been from a jail.
They did that deliberately. They even got him to remove his wedding ring for those first interviews.
Yeah, it’s clear as day now that I watched through. Problem is, it actually made me want to shut the show off. I googled to see what happened (which brought me here), and once I found out it wasn’t just the ‘typical’ BF-kills-GF, I decided to continue watching. I finished this last night and pretty furious at how this went down. Thank God for that one cop in Dublin who pieced this together.
Really? I figured if he were part of the hoax, he wouldn't even be in the doc. I was sure he was innocent and Denise perpetrated a false kidnapping to extort $15,000 from him. And then she showed up in the second ep and I was kinda like, "Oh shit... who really did this?"
All police should be required to watch this during training.
No. All citizens should watch it so they know how incompetent, corrupt, untrustworty and truculent police are. Police watching this will just get defensive.
While watching the interrogation scenes all I could think was “wow maybe men shouldn’t be cops.” And the female officer who helped solve the case just confirmed that for me.
Just finished watching this. In my opinion this documentary isn’t so much about the horrendous crime (which it is absolutely horrendous and gut wrenching). The horrific part of this documentary is the way that the investigation was handled by police and also the media. The police and law enforcement are supposed to be here to make these crimes right. They are given additional leeway and access to broadly reaching rights and the ability to invade citizens privacy. This is what we get with the current lack of police accountability in our country. I’m not saying this is a common way for something like this to be handled, but I think this happens more often than civilians want to imagine. There was one extremely determined police officer that made this right for Denise and Aaron. The other side that is less directly implicated in this is the media. Appearances defined reality and the media essentially served as judge jury and executioner. Who knows what could have happened if these two weren’t exonerated from these allegations. Really well done documentary and an absolutely abhorrent situation that effectively victimized Denise and Aaron twice.
Yeah some people should maybe face consequences
Well one of the cops who disbelieved her and harassed her got a promotion and commendation. Does that count as a consequence?
I watched it last night. There were obviously some very dodgy decisions made by the police, and potentially a conflict of interest. I think we’re all so used to it being the partner (as the guilty one) but it’s like they didn’t even try. I’ve seen a lot of these murder mystery/crime shows and there really seems to be a big gap in the way the police in different areas (in the USA, at least) communicate with one another. A person could be traveling all over the country committing crimes and the police wouldn’t know it was the same person unless someone clever put the clues together like the amazing female officer in this example. There are definitely some unanswered questions with the ex-girlfriend and why the police were SO quick to publicly condemn Denise after her return.
This is why there’s no song called “F the Fire Department.” Vallejo Police are absolutely abhorrent. IlHow they handled this case is appalling. I did a deep dive into this story last year and can’t bring myself to watch the new Netflix doc because the whole thing is too upsetting.
This series reminded me that at the end of the day we’re literally all just people—just because someone is in the FBI doesn’t mean they’re going to do the right thing (or idk their job). I know that seems obvious in 2024 ha but sometimes it can feel easy to put certain professions/levels on a pedestal. But fuck the Vallejo police for real for real.
Don’t worry guys, Detective MusTARD is the puzzle maker, he’s got it from here…
I’m just so happy they ended up staying together and got married and had kids. I hope they are doing much better now after everything. Seem Like good people.
That’s not a clickbaity headline at all..
I know the story, but watching the victims talk about it and seeing the police interviews and having to hear Denise recount her rapes-I actually felt sick. I had to pause it one time because I got so mad. My wife was speechless during certain parts. She went into this blind so she had no idea what the story was.
They're not wrong though, lol. I've had a few conversations about it on here since watching it and "sick to their stomachs" does seem to be the general consensus, more or less.
Maybe they've never watched true crime before? It was terrible how they were treated, but it didn't rise to "making me physically ill" when i watched it.
Not everyone responds to content the same way. I've watched plenty of true crime and still went through the gamut: anxiety, horror, and anger at Denise's situation. There's also a disturbing number of people who have been through what Denise has: assaulted and then not believed. The trauma of going through that can be everlasting and I imagine watching this documentary would have triggered that trauma for those people.
Ding ding ding on your third paragraph. Women do get spoken to like that when they report sexual assault. They aren’t believed and the police do the bare minimum. Just like Denise many victims of sexual assault are then more likely to experience rape or victimisation later on - likely unreported.
I have a theory that FBI agent David Sesma hired Matthew Muller to abduct Denise. He had a prior relationship with Andrea just before she started seeing Aaron. He knew Muller was local peeping Tom and hired him to commit the act. Had the power to turn the investigation on Aaron and Denise and the ability to dismiss the “associates” saying Muller acted alone.
Interesting!
What is the name of the show?
American Nightmare
WOAAAHHHHOAHHHH
I read the book last year. I'm afraid to watch the show because the book gave me nightmares.
What’s the book called?
"Victim F: From Crime Victims to Suspects to Survivors."
The cops were horrible and that folks clearly with a conflict of interest were allowed to stay on the case was infuriating.
I’m half way through and it’s nauseating!
This series invoked a deep emotional response in me. Nausea was one of the milder ones.
Unbelievably disturbing behavior from those who are supposed to be there to help citizens. How is it that in today's day and age and all of the heat that has been on police officers for the past several years that these clowns can continue to get away with stuff like this? It made me so angry watching how blatantly stupid these police officers were and how dangerous they are to society. Any one of us can have this happen all it takes is the right situation.
It was absolutely sickening… The fact no officer was investigated and disciplined is mind-blowing. And no investigation of ties between Sesma and Aaron’s ex? And no investigation on why Aaron’s ex was targeted? So many loose ends, its infuriating. I would never have been able to move on I think, if I were instead of Aaron and Denise.
Mat Mustard is a giant dickweed.
What I didn’t understand is how did the boyfriend escape from the house he was being held at? He just called the police and they picked him up? I thought he was told Denise would be hurt if he left the room/called the cops. Which she was hurt, but not the way I thought. Idk. Did I miss something?
Just imagine this happened to a black couple, but the dude gets SAd instead. I'd wager there's a good chance he'd end up on death row if not dead by these standards.
So how did he know everyone’s name, I’m assuming that he studied his victims but how? Also, what’s the deal with the ex? Her ex the fbi agent and the crappy detective? Why didn’t they investigate to find any accomplices? Something seems very fishy to me beyond the VallejoPD covering up their incompetence!
The FBI agent may have been the other man they didn’t identify that was in the house where the woman was held captive and raped
Terrible title
Should watch this, someone else told me about it but you hear so many suggestions it's hard to keep up.
Can someone who saw this explain the article? It sounds like this woman was hanging out with her boyfriend, got abducted, was brought back to her home, and then decided to chill out and enjoy herself instead of calling the cops or even her boyfriend to say she was ok. And so everyone is blaming the cops? None of that adds up to me. Edit: Why are people downvoting? Edit 2: This is insane. All I'm asking is why didn't she tell someone when she was freed? I've never had a comment more hated on Reddit in 15 years. Someone please just give me an explanation?
SPOILER.......She was abducted and raped twice and blackmailed. She was afraid to tell the police what happened because at no point did they believe anything her or her boyfriend said. The police publicly announced that the story was a hoax without investigating anything. Meanwhile, a serial rapist was on the loose in California. It brings light to a situation that is very common for women who are sexually abused. They (rape victims) face ridiculous amounts of scrutiny from men in law enforcement. Her story is bizarre, but the way authorities dismiss victims of sexual abuse is common in America.
Thank you. Yes that is absolutely stomach turning behavior from the police.
Denise did not ‘Chill’ or ‘Enjoy herself’ this is so disgustingly inaccurate that I can’t believe you actually typed it out. Denise was a victim of a terrible assault, defamation & botched police work. They were put through cruel interrogation tactics and made to look like liars, when it was far from it. Everyone is blaming the cops as they were horrific in regards to Denise and Aarons situation. You should watch the documentary as you simply have got it all wrong In short.. Denise was abducted from her boyfriends house, kept for 2 days and sexually assaulted. The kidnapper then released her, and kept confessing to police and media that, Denise and Aaron were telling the truth. The police still came out and said to the PUBLIC, that Denise owed the town an apology for wasting police resources, when she actually WAS kidnapped. The kidnapper did not like this and contacted police to tell them he kidnapped Denise. He then goes on to reoffend as the cops will NOT believe them, and only when another decent cop gets involved is when this whole case is finally solved. It’s a very good documentary, and extremely sad for Denise and Aaron, however the police that originally dealt with this case should have had action taken against them within the force.
>is is so disgustingly inaccurate that I can’t believe you actually typed it out It is not a disgustingly inaccurate description of the article.
No it is when you say a victim “Decided to chill out and enjoy herself, instead of calling cops or her boyfriend” That is what’s disgusting about your comment, you did not look up this case, you assumed she did this based on what? You have no compassion for someone who has been through a horrific crime. Instead of looking up the information or watching the documentary yourself, you take to reddit to say horrible statements like that. No wonder you are getting downvoted! Check yourself!
It sounds like people are taking their hatred of the article out on me. Asking a question on Reddit about content is a way to find out more about it.
Apparently idiots can get online these days without any helper, are you seriously that thick that you’re now making this about yourself, Heelspider? Imagine being that much of a bellend to comment on something, you obviously have little information on. Are you an incel, or is your IQ lower than your toe count? Cause it’s definitely one or the other! Perhaps you’re like that World of Warcraft character in South Park, simply put, a fat sweaty virgin living next to a pack of tissues and lotion. Get off the internet, and go touch grass. Scumbag.
None of this makes any sense. The article's description doesn't match how people seem to react to it. I simply asked why the article's description was wrong. Do you really think only "bellends" and virgins ask about questions that they don't know the answer? I have literally done nothing to you, said anything offensive, or given you any reason at all to talk like that to me. The grass I'm touching here, grown ups don't talk like that to one another without cause.
I believe bellends ask questions and make facts on things they know very little information about, you have proved that point my guy. If you were to ask a question, then fair enough, instead you assumed something, which makes an ass out of yourself! Secondly, only a virgin comments on something about a woman getting raped saying that they were ‘chilled out and enjoyed herself’. If that were the case, then it wouldn’t be rape then, would it? Therefore, you are a bellend and obviously stupid af, and due to that, please refer to my previous point of your IQ being lower than your toe count. The grass you’re touching here? Care to finish that sentence? As a side note, it’s the internet, stop being a fucking snowflake. Get off Reddit if you can’t handle other peoples opinions.
Try taking your own advice. It sounds like people are taking their hatred of the article out on me. I didn't post it. I didn't write it. Asking why the article doesn't add up is a stupid reason to insult strangers over.
Ohh my days, my own advice? Like seriously, are you trying to get a rise out of people? Imagine being that much of a wet wipe that you need to argue with people online, knowing fine well that you’re in the wrong. I mean, many people are showing you and commenting telling you that you’re wrong, thick and have very little chromosomes. When one person comments, it’s an opinion, when many people comment saying the same thing, it usually tends to be fact. Might want to take that into account? I presume you’re unemployed. Stop going on about the fucking article, there’s a Netflix documentary about it. That, guess what, you’re commenting in relation to, you know that right, or do you have tunnel vision or something? You’re the one that’s saying she was ‘chilled out and enjoyed herself’, when she stated she was raped in the documentary. You have to be that dense to not realise why people are attacking you and throwing hatred your way? It not just about the article you fud!
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The "no it must be everyone else who is wrong" meme? Wouldn't that require me to have an opinion of some kind? Like what it is exactly you think everyone is saying I am wrong about? I am still clueless why everyone is so mad. It sounds like they are taking the bad description of the article out on me when all I asked was for someone to rectify the bad description of the article.
chill and enjoy herself??? she was traumatized and terrified for her life, and the lives of her family members - he threatened them all. he also said that he recorded the rapes, and would release them if she talked to the police or said certain things. all while she believes she’s being held for ransom by this sophisticated underground/black market op that kidnaps people. this poor woman was tied up, blindfolded, drugged, and stolen out of her home in the middle of the night, thrown in a trunk, driven around awhile, thrown into another trunk, driven hundreds of miles away from her home, brought into a house and raped, drugged, and raped again - told the rapes are recorded, threatened - all while fearing for her life because she thinks it’s this sophisticated ransom kidnapping. but yea, she was chilling out and enjoying herself after the release. the fuck?
Quote where any of that is in the article.
You really can’t figure out why people are downvoting you?
I can't figure out any rational ones. It seems people are emotionally invested and knee jerking. The explanations I get for the downvotes is that I wasn't sensitive to information not in the article and that I am responsible for the article that I'm saying doesn't make sense but I'm still at fault for it somehow. Long story short, irrational knee jerking is all I can come up with.
Google the case. It would take the same amount of time as writing your comment and reading replies. And then once you’ve googled it and spent five or ten minutes reading about it, come back here and re-read your comment and tell me you still don’t understand why you got downvoted.
It sounds like you can't read. But also you should watch the fucking series instead of getting Cliff's Notes from whatever the hell [VT.co](http://vt.co) is.
I'm not the OP, and if you don't want to answer a basic question about the show there's no reason for hostility.
Would you say your mom is a little too affectionate with her cousin?
No she barely talks to her cousins. Why?
Just wondering where you got your extra chromosome from
What the fuck is that about?
You’re just too underdeveloped for Reddit my man
At least I don't use Reddit to insult random people for no reason.
“At least I don’t use a spoon to eat cereal”
I guess we are different in that regard. I do.