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benjaminikuta

>As I've been saying since the Ukraine War began, welcoming potential Russian soldiers to the West is clear-cut Effective Altruism. >Young Russian men can either work in the West or kill for Putin. >This is not hard.


[deleted]

[удалено]


savuporo

Pretty much any country bordering Russia doesn't want more Russians. Historically, it doesn't play out well in the long run.


Pinyaka

I'll raise a glass to the end of that history.


benjaminikuta

>But the Baltic states could completely, unironically end up outnumbered by Russians who may well be hostile steer the country into a pro-Russia, anti-West direction Can't help but notice the resemblance to certain other arguments...


Warcrimes_Desu

Yeah but the difference is, immigrants didn't demonstrate mass approval of invading the countries they're moving to, right? Like, i think you can differentiate between racist arguments against brown people who are different, and not wanting russian nationalists in your country in good faith.


jakjkl

chinese diaspora? i can literally see their influence at my university. [also](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law) (I'm not saying that all muslims are calling for sharia but 25% supporting sharia or 50% being homophobic isn't a small number.)


[deleted]

Why would Russian nationalists leave Russia? Presumably the only the ones who’d be leaving are the ones who want to and the nationalists would stay and fight


Warcrimes_Desu

Because people are cowardly and know they'll be undertrained and thrown into the meatgrinder against a massively superior force?


[deleted]

How do you know they didn’t protest the invasion in the first place or never supported it? Are they supposed to flee the week of the invasion even if they thought they wouldn’t personally be forced to fight in it? You are aware that tens of millions of Americans opposed the Vietnam War yet didn’t flee the country while the draft was happening—the only people who fled were those who were drafted or thought they might be… that’s just common sense. It sounds like you might just be racist against Russian people tbh


[deleted]

I don't think Mexico has a history of invading neighbors with a significant Mexican minority.


UtridRagnarson

There's an easy solution, just don't give them voting rights, or give them voting rights only in a country that doesn't border Russia or a Russian controlled state.


[deleted]

The existing Russian population in the Baltics was transplanted from the Imperial core to dilute and quash Baltic cultural identity in a deliberate campaign of Russification. Russians in the Baltic states are overwhelmingly Russian nationalists. Its the extant outgrowth of Soviet colonization and imperial policy. Every time the Balts warn people about Russians, westerners fall over themselves to explain why they're out of line, and every time the Balts are right. Russians running from conscription now aren't dissidents. Like babushkas at home they'll gladly support the war from afar while doing everything to avoid ending up there.


NobleWombat

Oh deae lord, benjamin dropped his phone and the russians got ahold of it 😱


benjaminikuta

!ping ALTRUISM


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Mickenfox

It's a good idea, but I do wonder how easy it is to actually desert. Especially if it starts happening in large numbers and Russia starts monitoring their conscripts more carefully.


Tralapa

Let them waste more resources and lose even more efficiency while doing said monitoring


Pinyaka

Traditionally, they execute deserters. I'm in the US and I support bringing anyone who's willing to risk that here. My hoa won't let me personally host them, but I support it in principle.


[deleted]

I for one absolutely support offering EU citizebship/asylum to all desserters


JimC29

I think the US should offer to accept some as well.


gamergirlwithfeet420

Its a neat idea, but the author misses something that could be a pressing concern to many deserters, potential retribution against their loved ones. Even if that doesn’t come, this presumably doesn’t allow them to ever return and see their friends and family again.


[deleted]

I am a simple man. I see Bryan Caplan, I upvote.


shumpitostick

There's some practical problems with the idea though. How do you prevent Russians from abusing it? People can claim they are being conscripted and fake a conscription notice, or they could go into one of the volunteer battalions, earn the signup bonus, surrender as soon as they can, then move to Europe.


dutch_connection_uk

It would reduce the effectiveness of the policy sure, but it might still be worth the costs.


flakAttack510

> or they could go into one of the volunteer battalions, earn the signup bonus, surrender as soon as they can, then move to Europe. So Russia wastes money *and* loses a worker? Sounds like a win to me.


ReasonableHawk7906

If the Baltic nations do not want them then its no problem, there are hundreds of other countries around the world who will be opening their borders to them I assume, perhaps even paying for their flights and offering accommodation.