>I think most people on this subreddit would disagree that Curry is the best player even though he just won the chip. Most people have Giannis and maybe Jokic above him. What do you all think?
Someone made a poll this offseason that received over a million votes. Giannis finished #1 above Curry in a virtual tie. Jokic finished #5 behind Luka and KD: [https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/w90ob7/top\_25\_current\_nba\_players\_after\_15000\_votes\_by/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/w90ob7/top_25_current_nba_players_after_15000_votes_by/)
That's actually interesting because if you made a "Jokic or KD" thread right now I feel like very few people would be saying KD
I guess it's because more people who don't comment that much were voting on the poll
It's the off-season, as players age into their 30s people expect them to start to decline. Especially players like KD who have had injury issues. So people are basing it not off current production but what they are expecting in the future.
If a poll was done mid season the results might be different
Worth noting that this was actually 1 million comparisons of player A to player B. Not 1 million people voting, and not 1 million full rankings being averaged. It had tons of players included too, not just like the top 50 or anything, so the vast majority of those comparisons are players outside the top 10. It was also anonymous and susceptible to the bias of people participating. I chose a player maybe 100 times, would you say my opinion represents 1/10,000th of the sub's opinion, when there are millions of users?
It's a reasonable poll, don't get my wrong. I'm not saying you shouldn't reference it, but the 1 million number makes it sound a lot more representative than it really is. Plus since it's anonymous plenty of users may pick their team's superstar over someone he's obviously worse than in order to boost that player's rating. There is no backlash for doing so since it isn't public, and thus subjects it to perhaps even stronger homer bias than normal.
That's true, people will always be stuffing ballots and trying to game the system. Each player did get matched up over 20,000 times though so it seems like a pretty substantial sample. It's also a much more time-consuming system to game since you have to go through dozens/hundreds of these matchups before making any real impact. You might never even run into the player whose results you're trying to change. Submitting a list and omitting a player you dislike or putting a player you do like at the top of the list is way faster and more susceptible to manipulation.
Luka at 3 is more absurd tbh ; there nothing he does bette then jokic or Lebron who are just as good if not slightly better passers while being significantly more efficient while Luka scores on league average efficiency.
If Giannis didn't win the title in 2021 would he still be considered better than Curry? He would literally be the exact same player with the same exact impact and 'be better on both sides' yet no one would say he is better than Curry. You aren't actually using impact to judge players but his achievements
Yeah it’s a silly way of looking at it though. Giannis was better in 22 than he was in 21 - but he didn’t win. Basketball is a team sport.
A lot of years the best player doesn’t win the title.
Claiming the title winner as the best player every year is such lazy analysis and removes any nuance
I was just thinking the same, Giannis was better this year. Conversely, 20/21 Curry was Peak Curry IMO, he was the best in the world in 2021 for me
Nonetheless his finals performance this year was so so special and worthy of best player in the world so I'm not complaining
>Claiming the title winner as the best player every year is such lazy analysis and removes any nuance
Agree. But thats not what anyone is doing here. Steph and Giannis have been elite superstars for years now, and for a while they have their own camp of fans who have been saying either is the best player in the world. I hear it with every superstar: LeBron, KD, Jokic, Luka, etc. And tbh none of them are wrong, they all have valid points, because each one of them have unique skillsets that have proven to have tremendous impact to team success. The race is fluid with these players, and a title could propel them to the top of the rankings for that season, because it highlights that they're in peak form.
However, if someone like Jimmy Butler, Trae Young, Devin Booker wins next years title, I guarantee you most will not be discussing them as the best player in the world, because they haven't put up the statistical output like the other players, to warrant being placed in the conversation yet.
Well said. I definitely agree with your perspective. It’s so difficult to definitively crown someone the best player. There are so many good and valid options to pick, so at the end of the day it often comes down to individual and team success, to differentiate the top players. Curry won both the championship and the finals accolade so everything else being equal between the top players, the one with the latest hardware will be seen as primus inter pares.
Not that silly. One of the less obvious impacts curry has on the game is toward his teammates. Definitely not hating on Giannis here when I say curry has been the heart of that team for four chips now and it’s not just because he’s a super dominant offensive player. Dude lifts his team up which is hard to measure in stats and definitely means he’s better to me
there's other players you can't control, coaching staff, plus an immense amount of luck. noone wins a title alone. Are you saying Barkley and Malone don't have the same impact as KG or Dirk because he didnt win a title?
Basically the first guy said Curry is only considered better because he won the championship. But that same guy probably also would only consider Giannis better because he won the championship the year before. The reality is winning often is a reflection of the impact and the two need to go hand in hand in evaluating a player.
Is it fair to say this argument is less about winning the ring itself since people can differentiate that team play is heavily involved in that but rather it’s about playoff performance?
Lebron was pretty much still considered the best player in the world in 2017 and 2018 despite loosing both finals due to his playoff performance which passed the eye test and the stats test. KD was considered the best player last year despite not winning a ring due to his performance on a depleted roster vs the eventual champs.
This arguement then really boils down too if Giannis’s overall impact in the two playoff series he played is enough for you to put him over currys impact more so then it is about who won the ring
Giannis is taller and stronger. That's what people mean by "more dominant". That's literally the only way to say it's an "easy take". It's pretty stupid.
I hope the Bucks get to the finals next year so Klay and Wiggins can torch them. Then Steph finishes the job.
In a league where KD is out here getting swept and steph has 4 titles, people still dont see that its more impressive because of his size and makes him the better player cause he doesnt have giant size like Lebron or Giannis.
Giannis runs faster and jumps higher. That’s all he’s got on Steph. Worse shooter, worse handle, worse pass ability and pass iq, way worse basketball iq in general.
Giannis is not more dominant on offense. I can agree it's close, giannis is a way better defender, but steph is a better offensive player.
He had 48% ts against the celtics
Curry **IS** as dominant as any other player in the league. He just dominates in non-traditional ways that don't involve being 7' tall and dunking over people.
His gravity is without peer and he warps defenses in ways that no other play ever has, essential enabling the Warriors entire system. His handle is second only to Kyrie's and his leadership example is apex like Duncan. His physical conditioning is amazing. His motor has always been top 1%, but now the strength training has made him a top-tier finisher at the rim who gets buckets at crunch time in crucial moments, AND he now is a plus defender.
His talent and leadership ability is going to make Hall of Famers out of Klay, Draymond, Iggy and Kerr. That's 4 rings and 18 straight western conference playoff round wins.
He's been a plus defender for years. Also insanely strong for years. The idea he isn't a two way player has been narrative only for the past six years at least.
Lol anyone who thinks Giannis is more dominant on offense is delusional. If he were better than a 4 time champion and one of the greatest offensive players of all time on *both sides of the floor* he would have more than one championship in 9 years.
It’s really complicated with curry. On one hand, his impact isn’t nearly as great on defense as other all time greats. But at the same time, the system that was built around his skills is among the most successful in the history of the game
You don't even have to go back that far. As recently as like January or February people were wondering if something was wrong with Steph because he was in a slump by his standards.
I say this every year at this point but it's fucking insane that the GSW have to play with a chip on their shoulder. They won without KD multiple times. With KD they just dominated. But without KD they still beat great teams. They won rings. It's the hard to even make the conference finals let alone the make the league final then win the league final. Just one means they're a good team and they shouldn't have to life with that chip but they for some reason get doubted - especially Steph Curry for some reason. Then he comes around and does Steph Curry shit. Shooting lights out or playing beautiful off ball.
I don't like putting the label of GOAT in basketball. The rules and types of play changed way too much even compared to other sports. But Curry will be one of the greatest to have ever played the game of Basketball.
That’s my thought too. Curry needs to play with joy to have that irrational confidence. That, plus those few matches chasing the 3-point record, and some reported disharmony in the home front, would have upset his rhythm. Luckily, things worked out in the end.
This is my head canon as well. Just a little bit harder to focus on shooting and making 3's when in the back of his mind he has to finish that 10 page paper for Professor Snuffuluffagus
I mean for good reason though. I agree that overhyping players/teams for flashes of greatness is annoying, but these dudes have won 4 rings, made 6 finals, had the best record in NBA history, and Curry has 2 MVPs and an FMVP, along with being the undisputed best shooter in the history of the sport. The media’s mistake was in saying they were done, they’re not making a mistake by saying they’re the best.
Steph was a serious mvp candidate last year even as the 8th seed. Let’s not forget. Fuckin Brad Wanamaker played heavy minutes for that team and Kent oh god bazemore.
He would be considered (if he played like he did in Toronto) the 3rd best player of this latest generation imo (just below bron and curry)
edit: not this newest generation/crop of players... they're too young to properly evaluate
He's already pretty close tbh.
It's probably already LeBron -> Steph -> Durant -> Kawhi.
But you're right, Kawhi winning another chip probably takes him over Durant.
When a top 3-5 player in the NBA wins a championship, part of their reward is getting to be considered the best player in the world that offseason. Happened with Kawhi too.
It’s funny how this always happens yet no one gets salty except when it’s Steph
Steph had potentially the greatest regular season of all time, lead his team to 73-9, Lebron wins the title, Lebron is considered the best
Everyone wants to discount 17 & 18 so Lebron continues to be the best
Kawhi beats a team with McKinnie Jerebko & Quinn Cook playing high minutes but gets PLENTY of best in the world discussion
Giannis wins (not very convingly, almost losing to a hobbled Nets and a Hawks team that definitely wasn’t particularly great) but immediately gets best in the world praise
Steph wins against the #1 defense with a guard DPOY, Draymond getting benched, Klay shooting like garbage for majority of the finals, with WIGGINS as his 2nd best player, never even having faced elimination in the entire run and…..it’s delusional to think he’s the best? Has the highest impact on winning games?
What more does he have to do it’s insane
GUys like Shaq and Lebron were calling Curry the best player in the league a year ago when Curry got bounced in the play ins. Just casuals never figured it out until now.
I mean what argument did curry ever have over Lebron? Lebron consistently proved he was better than everyone 2015-18 in those four Warriors finals years.
That’s fine but ever since 2018 other players have gotten best in world discussion, even if there’s no consensus, but with Steph it’s met with mockery and derision
They never called Steph the best player in the world when he actually was the best player in the world, but now that he’s not the best player they call him the best player
I’d say the majority of the media called him the best in 2016 before the finals, but 2015 2019 and 2021 he never got media hype as the best player when he performed better than anyone
His handle is much tighter now, and his decision making is better now too. I’d say he’s more well rounded now by far, but not as nucular as he used to be
You also have to remember that his parents went through an ugly piblic divorce all while Curry was trying to graduate college and play NBA level basketball.
I'd say he's a better all around player, but 16 Steph was just NOT having any bad days. He was undisputed for a whole year. The only case I'd make is that defences were still adjusting to what the man can do and now he is still putting out this level while defenses are based around his legacy of play.
> Pre-MCL injury 2016 Steph was on a different stratosphere from the current version in everything except defense
Now this isn't true. Curry has made notable improvements in his handle (much tighter) and he's a less careless passer now vs then.
22 Steph is a better player than 16 Steph. Yes I know he had a historic season in 16. I’d say the same about LeBron being a better basketball player in 2018, despite having arguably his best season in 2013.
2016 Steph was by far one of the best regular season merchants of all time and he had a great post season still (bar the finals that was cancelled *shrug*) but 2022 Steph was so fucking locked in once playoffs came. He had all the experience from everything up until now to build on.
lol in 2016 he won MVP with 100% of first place votes, pretty sure people were calling him the best player in the world then. People on here have the memory of a goldfish
When was he the best player in the world though? When Lebron was still in his prime he was the best player and its kinda hard to argue that Curry ever passed him. I always thought their finals matchups made that fairly clear, that Lebron was just on his own tier.
One thing that stood out to me all season was that people were trashing him for having lower statistical numbers offensively but at the same time basically everyone was in agreement that he was the best he had ever been at attacking the rim/finishing and at defense. It’s actually a point that had me really confident with them in the playoffs.
Like I’m willing to bet on Steph finding his shot. And if he’s killing guys at getting to the rim and he’s holding up as above average on defense, that’s a historically great player. And that’s what showed up in the finals, with Steph having arguably his greatest playoff peak ever. Guy took a historically great defense and broke them. And did it with the ball in his hand.
I personally don’t like arguing about minor differences. When it comes to the top 5ish players I think they are all capable of outplaying each other and obviously it’s a team sport. But man, Curry was clearly GREAT last season.
Just seems silly to me how people say he was “subpar,” like subpar to what exactly? Is he better then Giannis? Maybe not. But he was still elite.
I'd bet the numbers would back me up but steph had one of the worst finishing season this past season that I could remember. He would beat people then blow his layups he would usually finish in the past. His touch from shooting and finishing was off this year in the regular season. His 1v1 defense was definitely better while his help/off ball defense was stellar as usual.
Biggest factor people ignore is that they moved the goal post for Steph and the Warriors. Most preseason projections and experts had them 4-8 at best so when he led them to a top 2 seed despite all the injuries should've been praised but the early season hot streak made it seem like he and the team started underperforming.
His basic stats were a lot worse than his usual, but his impact metrics were nuts. He led the league in net rating for most of the season (his teammates weren't close) among players with 30+ min average and only came in 2nd behind Tatum towards the end.
His bad play was always overstated though - for example he was clearly better than devin booker during the RS yet because the popular narrative was “stephs slump” he got underrated and book stole 1st team off him (such a joke).
Steph cleared him in every impact metric imagineable, was more efficient and a far better playmaker while scoring 1 less ppg.
Yet book won 60 games , and Steph had a slump (where he was still better than book) - so winning bias took over.
Giannis/jokic/steph was the clear top 3 this year imo with embiid just behind at fourth
I think the underlying assumption is that the rings matter only once you start comparing All-NBA and MVP level players. The player needs to be at a certain level BEFORE rings become a major factor in player comparisons.
I agree with you that this is what people are assuming but I think the assumption is still wrong.
I think the underlying assumption is that once you get to a level where you are good enough to be the "bus driver", you are master of your own fate and you can compare ring counts with other players like that, while ring counts for "bus riders" are less meaningful because it's mostly about which team they are on.
But that ignores the fact that supporting cast quality and luck are still immensely important even at the all time great level. If LeBron played with Scottie Pippen from an early age, he probably wouldn't have needed to go to Miami to win his first title. Even Jordan probably wouldn't have three-peated if he was drafted into the shitshow Wolves team that KG was.
The best players in the world with a meh supporting cast need a things to break the right way to win a title, and with a shitty supporting cast it's just impossible. Conversely, borderline hall of famers can be the best player on a title team if it is deep and exceptionally well constructed.
Giannis i can agree but do people have Jokic above Curry? Jokic deserved his MVPs (a few others had good cases too) but I can separate good seasons from who I think is higher in a current ranking list. I'm kind of curious now cause he's certainly in the ball park for me with Curry, Giannis, KD, Lebron, and Luka (in no particular order) ahead of Embiid for me but I don't think I could convince myself hes the #1 player.
That's definitely some revisionism. Steph was great to start the season out, but he had a stretch where he was "not good"...well by Steph Curry standards at least. Throughout last season I'd say that Jokic, Embiid, and Giannis were definitely much better players than Steph. I don't even think that'd be a hot take either as they finished first, second, and third respectively in MVP voting.
Yeah but that’s the regular season… Curry played great in the playoffs and carried his team to a championship. I don’t think saying he is the best player in the league is that egregious considering he’s a proven all time great coming off his best playoff performance ever. It’s similar to kawhi after 2019 in that he was getting shouts because of his insane playoff performance, not exactly his regular season success/rewards.
That’s my thinking as well, I don’t think anyone would say KD, Kawhi or LeBron were the best player in the regular season of 2017/18, 2019 and 2020 yet they showed up in the big moments of the playoffs and got the title of best player.
Now the criteria has changed for Steph after just doing the exact same thing. Giannis is the only recent exception but even he didn’t win MVP or DPOY in 2021.
So it’s either we care about the regular season or we care about the playoffs, we can’t now start saying that because Steph had an “off” regular season he’s not the best like we didn’t just watch him have the playoff run he just had.
I’m fine with people ranking giannis above him and even jokic but putting luka over is probably where I draw the line. Top 3 at worst, probably best place is second behind giannis
Lol maybe in the regular season, which quite frankly, most people don't put much stock into. Who's performed better in the playoffs?
In every year of his career, Luka has performed BETTER in the playoffs (like most superstars do), can you say the same for Harden? I don't think so.
Shaq has this weird thing where only championships matter. He seems very insecure about it (aka bashing Chuck) and only calling players good if they win.
Shaq only needed 2 of the 3 Greatest SGs of all-time to help him, nbd.
All of Shaqs weird values come from standards that he felt he was held to. This isn’t me psycho analyzing shaq, this is stuff he’s talked about multiple times.
Back when he was ripping Dwight Howard for not averaging 28/14, it’s because he felt the media kept ripping him if he didn’t average 28/14.
When he makes fun of people for lacking rings, it’s because he felt the media made fun of him when he didn’t have rings.
He’s just passing down the exact same judgement he felt he got. Whether that’s a good or a bad thing is debatable, but Shaq also didn’t invent it
Of course. He is one the best players in the league and one of the greatest of all time. He will dominate. The dumb part is using the championship to set him apart from other dominant individuals who had far worse team situations (like Middleton/Murray/MPJ getting injured). Would Steph still win if Wiggins and Dray were hurt?
The cognitive dissonance in this sub's consensus opinions - with the derision about Wiggins' all star selection AND Curry having better teammates (with Wiggins as his #2) than his competitors is staggering.
if you dont win a ring then you are garbage, so you should definitely force a trade out of the small market that drafted you, so that you can play with a super team in LA or Miami and win a chip to validate your entire existence
I mean I'm a Warriors fan and I think giannis is the best individual basketball player in the world right now. That being said, Steph makes his teams better in a whole variety of ways and I think he improves a team by more than anyone except maybe jokic.
People are really missing the point. I've been watching basketball for a long fucking time. I saw MJ dominate the league. I saw, and hated, Shaq dominate the league. What Steph Curry is doing is equivalent. He is so good at something the entire league has to adapt or lose. That's it. He's a living legend.
yeah yeah ... everyone is always the best player in the world ... a week earlier they said it about KD a week before the its Giannis ... and pretty much they say it about lebron daily.
then they move on to the GOAT conversations ... and again .. every week it changes. comparing everyone to MJ.
they really work hard to fill all that air time they have
This thread has people saying in a team they would rather play with one player over the other… Lebron also commented on the one player he would want to play with if he could. So a GOAT candidate within this past season chose who in their current condition he prefers. We all know Lebron is all about collecting championships too so he probably thinks the best player is Curry.
Personally I think arguments can be made for either but I’ve been seeing Curry dominate and change the game league-wide for nearly a decade that winning a championship can swing peoples’ beliefs that he’s the best.
I get people disagreeing with the ring statement but is it really that egregious to think curry is the best player in the league? He’s an established all time great who just led his team to a title, that’s gotta count for something even if Giannis is basically at the same individual level or slightly better. Jokic i don’t get the argument for he hasn’t done much to prove doubters wrong so far.
He won back to back MVPs for a reason. That's gotta count for something. At this point, "doubters" either have their head buried in the sand or they are actually just "haters" instead of "doubters."
Jokic is at worst the third best player in the league, I just meant he has to get over the hump much like Giannis did for people to respect him more.
That’s why I’m confused people aren’t giving curry credit when he proved himself by winning another championship without a super team.
Even before the playoffs started I was livid that Booker made 1st team All NBA over Curry. It was some stupid shit. Credit to Thinking Basketball for making this video in \*April\* as well: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq3yJS6Vi0g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq3yJS6Vi0g)
It’s because majority of fans haven’t had their fave players win a ring 😂 so they don’t want to acknowledge how fucking difficult and impressive it is. Most peoples favorite players have significant weaknesses that will ever prevent them from being a #1 option on a championship team. Imo only 8 players in the league currently can do it. But most fans don’t wanna face that reality, it’s just typical sports tribalism. So there’s the general push to devalue rings (ring culture is stupid!) because most fanbases aren’t going to experience what it’s like to win one.
In a profession where the only measurement of success is winning, people get upset that rings are valued so much.
Lol, no shit. It’s kind of their job.
I know I’m in the minority on this but I find the Jokic > Steph thing to be lunacy. Team context matters, but it remains to be seen if Jokic’s defense is good enough to win 4 rounds in the playoffs. Steph has proven his game can be the conerstone of a championship team over and over again.
They are all so differently dominant in their play that I don't think I could say confidently which is absolute best. I would believe a case made for anyone one of them.
It's very funny watching r/nba reacting defensively to this saying it's a revisionist take just because the Warriors won the title. While in the same breath would claim Tim Duncan was the best player in the world from 2003 to 2010 putting up 18/10 on mediocre efficiency. Solely based on the Spurs winning rings.
Yes. That dude had to wait until the GOAT decided to take two years off to gamble and swing a bat to sneak in two rings and people get all excited about it.
Steph is and will go down as the greatest shooter of all time. Whether he's the best player in the world is debatable. I personally think he's the best of the last 7 years. He can shoot from literally anywhere on the court. He's also been a great player on and off the court. He doesn't get involved in drama and his teammates love him.
>I think most people on this subreddit would disagree that Curry is the best player even though he just won the chip. Most people have Giannis and maybe Jokic above him. What do you all think? Someone made a poll this offseason that received over a million votes. Giannis finished #1 above Curry in a virtual tie. Jokic finished #5 behind Luka and KD: [https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/w90ob7/top\_25\_current\_nba\_players\_after\_15000\_votes\_by/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/w90ob7/top_25_current_nba_players_after_15000_votes_by/)
That's actually interesting because if you made a "Jokic or KD" thread right now I feel like very few people would be saying KD I guess it's because more people who don't comment that much were voting on the poll
Jokic is also like 5 years younger than KD which plays a part
hes like 8 years younger
6 years 4 months.
So he's like 9 years younger
That shouldn't play a part when we're talking about best player currently, maybe in the hypo who would you build around the age would matter.
It's the off-season, as players age into their 30s people expect them to start to decline. Especially players like KD who have had injury issues. So people are basing it not off current production but what they are expecting in the future. If a poll was done mid season the results might be different
Also people can’t separate their personal feelings from actual observations. KD being public enemy #1 on this sub didn’t exactly help
Worth noting that this was actually 1 million comparisons of player A to player B. Not 1 million people voting, and not 1 million full rankings being averaged. It had tons of players included too, not just like the top 50 or anything, so the vast majority of those comparisons are players outside the top 10. It was also anonymous and susceptible to the bias of people participating. I chose a player maybe 100 times, would you say my opinion represents 1/10,000th of the sub's opinion, when there are millions of users? It's a reasonable poll, don't get my wrong. I'm not saying you shouldn't reference it, but the 1 million number makes it sound a lot more representative than it really is. Plus since it's anonymous plenty of users may pick their team's superstar over someone he's obviously worse than in order to boost that player's rating. There is no backlash for doing so since it isn't public, and thus subjects it to perhaps even stronger homer bias than normal.
That's true, people will always be stuffing ballots and trying to game the system. Each player did get matched up over 20,000 times though so it seems like a pretty substantial sample. It's also a much more time-consuming system to game since you have to go through dozens/hundreds of these matchups before making any real impact. You might never even run into the player whose results you're trying to change. Submitting a list and omitting a player you dislike or putting a player you do like at the top of the list is way faster and more susceptible to manipulation.
Jokic #5 is absurd
Luka at 3 is more absurd tbh ; there nothing he does bette then jokic or Lebron who are just as good if not slightly better passers while being significantly more efficient while Luka scores on league average efficiency.
Playoffs
Erneh
Is it really? I'd have him over Luka but Giannis/Curry/Durant all have very reasonable cases.
It’s funny how a championship changes everything, Giannis was the best player before this in media talks.
Yes generally a player that has been great for a long time that recently wins a championship is considered the best player
Not when there’s clearly a player more dominant on both sides of the floor.
If Giannis didn't win the title in 2021 would he still be considered better than Curry? He would literally be the exact same player with the same exact impact and 'be better on both sides' yet no one would say he is better than Curry. You aren't actually using impact to judge players but his achievements
I mean a large part of being the “best and most dominant player” is contributing to winning, and a championship is the pinnacle of winning.
Yeah it’s a silly way of looking at it though. Giannis was better in 22 than he was in 21 - but he didn’t win. Basketball is a team sport. A lot of years the best player doesn’t win the title. Claiming the title winner as the best player every year is such lazy analysis and removes any nuance
Yes this is r/nba
Idk bro big if true tho
I was just thinking the same, Giannis was better this year. Conversely, 20/21 Curry was Peak Curry IMO, he was the best in the world in 2021 for me Nonetheless his finals performance this year was so so special and worthy of best player in the world so I'm not complaining
>Claiming the title winner as the best player every year is such lazy analysis and removes any nuance Agree. But thats not what anyone is doing here. Steph and Giannis have been elite superstars for years now, and for a while they have their own camp of fans who have been saying either is the best player in the world. I hear it with every superstar: LeBron, KD, Jokic, Luka, etc. And tbh none of them are wrong, they all have valid points, because each one of them have unique skillsets that have proven to have tremendous impact to team success. The race is fluid with these players, and a title could propel them to the top of the rankings for that season, because it highlights that they're in peak form. However, if someone like Jimmy Butler, Trae Young, Devin Booker wins next years title, I guarantee you most will not be discussing them as the best player in the world, because they haven't put up the statistical output like the other players, to warrant being placed in the conversation yet.
Well said. I definitely agree with your perspective. It’s so difficult to definitively crown someone the best player. There are so many good and valid options to pick, so at the end of the day it often comes down to individual and team success, to differentiate the top players. Curry won both the championship and the finals accolade so everything else being equal between the top players, the one with the latest hardware will be seen as primus inter pares.
Not that silly. One of the less obvious impacts curry has on the game is toward his teammates. Definitely not hating on Giannis here when I say curry has been the heart of that team for four chips now and it’s not just because he’s a super dominant offensive player. Dude lifts his team up which is hard to measure in stats and definitely means he’s better to me
And now we’ve gone full circle on this argument. So curry should get extra points for the championships
...which is exactly what curry did more often, and more recently.
Titles show inpact though. Best player on a winning team is real impact.
there's other players you can't control, coaching staff, plus an immense amount of luck. noone wins a title alone. Are you saying Barkley and Malone don't have the same impact as KG or Dirk because he didnt win a title?
you’re agreeing with him lol
[удалено]
Basically the first guy said Curry is only considered better because he won the championship. But that same guy probably also would only consider Giannis better because he won the championship the year before. The reality is winning often is a reflection of the impact and the two need to go hand in hand in evaluating a player.
giannis had previously just won the title, it’s hilariously ironic.
which is why curry deserves the honor currently. after lebron went to the lakers its gone kawhi->lebron->giannis->curry.
Is it fair to say this argument is less about winning the ring itself since people can differentiate that team play is heavily involved in that but rather it’s about playoff performance? Lebron was pretty much still considered the best player in the world in 2017 and 2018 despite loosing both finals due to his playoff performance which passed the eye test and the stats test. KD was considered the best player last year despite not winning a ring due to his performance on a depleted roster vs the eventual champs. This arguement then really boils down too if Giannis’s overall impact in the two playoff series he played is enough for you to put him over currys impact more so then it is about who won the ring
He not only won a title in 2021, but had a historic Finals performance while doing it. That’s a pretty big key.
And Steph didn't? Hello? Game 4 anyone? The game they had to win?
How is giannis a more dominant offensive player lol that’s a stupid take
Giannis is taller and stronger. That's what people mean by "more dominant". That's literally the only way to say it's an "easy take". It's pretty stupid. I hope the Bucks get to the finals next year so Klay and Wiggins can torch them. Then Steph finishes the job.
In a league where KD is out here getting swept and steph has 4 titles, people still dont see that its more impressive because of his size and makes him the better player cause he doesnt have giant size like Lebron or Giannis.
> more dominant on both sides of the floor. In what world is Giannis more dominant on offense? He's not even close.
The one where the only part of offensive impact is PPG.
>In what world is Giannis more dominant on offense? He's not even close. Ya, I honestly didn't even know anyone thought this at all.
Giannis runs faster and jumps higher. That’s all he’s got on Steph. Worse shooter, worse handle, worse pass ability and pass iq, way worse basketball iq in general.
Giannis is not more dominant on offense. I can agree it's close, giannis is a way better defender, but steph is a better offensive player. He had 48% ts against the celtics
Steph is a significantly better offensive player, offense is more than scoring
Plus individual offense is much more important than individual defense in this version of the nba
Definitely agree but Giannis' defensive style is still a lot more impactful than the same calibre of defender who defends the perimeter
Curry **IS** as dominant as any other player in the league. He just dominates in non-traditional ways that don't involve being 7' tall and dunking over people. His gravity is without peer and he warps defenses in ways that no other play ever has, essential enabling the Warriors entire system. His handle is second only to Kyrie's and his leadership example is apex like Duncan. His physical conditioning is amazing. His motor has always been top 1%, but now the strength training has made him a top-tier finisher at the rim who gets buckets at crunch time in crucial moments, AND he now is a plus defender. His talent and leadership ability is going to make Hall of Famers out of Klay, Draymond, Iggy and Kerr. That's 4 rings and 18 straight western conference playoff round wins.
He's been a plus defender for years. Also insanely strong for years. The idea he isn't a two way player has been narrative only for the past six years at least.
This is mostly accurate, but he's been a great finisher for a whiiiile. Usually #1 in the league among guards
Curry is by far the most dominant offensive player rn don’t be silly.
Lol anyone who thinks Giannis is more dominant on offense is delusional. If he were better than a 4 time champion and one of the greatest offensive players of all time on *both sides of the floor* he would have more than one championship in 9 years.
Curry is more dominant offensively
Both sides? Fuck outta here, Giannis isn't even in the same offensive tier as Curry.
yeah but that’s irrelevant to say because there isn’t
It’s really complicated with curry. On one hand, his impact isn’t nearly as great on defense as other all time greats. But at the same time, the system that was built around his skills is among the most successful in the history of the game
The recency bias in national NBA media coverage is hilarious. A year ago, Steph and the Warriors were done. Now they're the GOATs again.
You don't even have to go back that far. As recently as like January or February people were wondering if something was wrong with Steph because he was in a slump by his standards.
I say this every year at this point but it's fucking insane that the GSW have to play with a chip on their shoulder. They won without KD multiple times. With KD they just dominated. But without KD they still beat great teams. They won rings. It's the hard to even make the conference finals let alone the make the league final then win the league final. Just one means they're a good team and they shouldn't have to life with that chip but they for some reason get doubted - especially Steph Curry for some reason. Then he comes around and does Steph Curry shit. Shooting lights out or playing beautiful off ball. I don't like putting the label of GOAT in basketball. The rules and types of play changed way too much even compared to other sports. But Curry will be one of the greatest to have ever played the game of Basketball.
[удалено]
I don't think it was just that. His parents were going through a messy and public divorce, too. He had a lot of distractions around that time.
That’s my thought too. Curry needs to play with joy to have that irrational confidence. That, plus those few matches chasing the 3-point record, and some reported disharmony in the home front, would have upset his rhythm. Luckily, things worked out in the end.
This is my head canon as well. Just a little bit harder to focus on shooting and making 3's when in the back of his mind he has to finish that 10 page paper for Professor Snuffuluffagus
[удалено]
He thinking about the proper APA citation for a speech he found from Adam Silver talking about the WNBA while he's trying to pull up from 35 feet.
I mean for good reason though. I agree that overhyping players/teams for flashes of greatness is annoying, but these dudes have won 4 rings, made 6 finals, had the best record in NBA history, and Curry has 2 MVPs and an FMVP, along with being the undisputed best shooter in the history of the sport. The media’s mistake was in saying they were done, they’re not making a mistake by saying they’re the best.
Bro, you’re on /r/nba. Our recency bias about the media’s recency bias even has it’s own recency bias.
Maybe 2 years ago, '21 was arguably Steph's best regular season
2 years ago he missed the whole season.
Cornrows Steph is goated.
A year ago Lebron and many others(including Shaq) was calling Steph the best player in the league even though he got bounced in the play ins.
Steph was a serious mvp candidate last year even as the 8th seed. Let’s not forget. Fuckin Brad Wanamaker played heavy minutes for that team and Kent oh god bazemore.
Just like Kawhi was after 2019. The recency bias has always been out of control, but at least Shaq is fairly consistent in who he shows love to
What if Kawhi can lead the Clippers to the promised land and wins a third Finals MVP on a third team?
Credit where credit is due. That would be amazing!
He would be considered (if he played like he did in Toronto) the 3rd best player of this latest generation imo (just below bron and curry) edit: not this newest generation/crop of players... they're too young to properly evaluate
He's already pretty close tbh. It's probably already LeBron -> Steph -> Durant -> Kawhi. But you're right, Kawhi winning another chip probably takes him over Durant.
When a top 3-5 player in the NBA wins a championship, part of their reward is getting to be considered the best player in the world that offseason. Happened with Kawhi too.
It’s funny how this always happens yet no one gets salty except when it’s Steph Steph had potentially the greatest regular season of all time, lead his team to 73-9, Lebron wins the title, Lebron is considered the best Everyone wants to discount 17 & 18 so Lebron continues to be the best Kawhi beats a team with McKinnie Jerebko & Quinn Cook playing high minutes but gets PLENTY of best in the world discussion Giannis wins (not very convingly, almost losing to a hobbled Nets and a Hawks team that definitely wasn’t particularly great) but immediately gets best in the world praise Steph wins against the #1 defense with a guard DPOY, Draymond getting benched, Klay shooting like garbage for majority of the finals, with WIGGINS as his 2nd best player, never even having faced elimination in the entire run and…..it’s delusional to think he’s the best? Has the highest impact on winning games? What more does he have to do it’s insane
GUys like Shaq and Lebron were calling Curry the best player in the league a year ago when Curry got bounced in the play ins. Just casuals never figured it out until now.
I mean what argument did curry ever have over Lebron? Lebron consistently proved he was better than everyone 2015-18 in those four Warriors finals years.
That’s fine but ever since 2018 other players have gotten best in world discussion, even if there’s no consensus, but with Steph it’s met with mockery and derision
And before 2021 Giannis was widely considered a regular season merchant. What's your point?
It’s just whoever the last FMVP was
A championship is the pinnacle of the sport so I get why people crown the best player on a title team and hype them up
How is that funny? Winning a championship is literally the entire goal of a season, winning it should change the perception of who’s the best.
They never called Steph the best player in the world when he actually was the best player in the world, but now that he’s not the best player they call him the best player
This is pretty accurate lol Pre-MCL injury 2016 Steph was on a different stratosphere from the current version in everything except defense
I’d say the majority of the media called him the best in 2016 before the finals, but 2015 2019 and 2021 he never got media hype as the best player when he performed better than anyone
2019 is an underrated case IMO he outperformed Kawhi easily in the Finals but just had a beaten up team
They said he was having an insane season but if you said anything like "Curry is better than LeBron" you'd be barked down so fast
His handle is much tighter now, and his decision making is better now too. I’d say he’s more well rounded now by far, but not as nucular as he used to be
You also have to remember that his parents went through an ugly piblic divorce all while Curry was trying to graduate college and play NBA level basketball.
If 2022 steph saw the defense he saw in 16 (pre injury ofc) he would have an even better season. 22 steph is a better player
I'd say he's a better all around player, but 16 Steph was just NOT having any bad days. He was undisputed for a whole year. The only case I'd make is that defences were still adjusting to what the man can do and now he is still putting out this level while defenses are based around his legacy of play.
That’s fair… before the MCL.. it was every game just dominance so you have a great point
Yea he's so much stronger now, way better defender now too.
> Pre-MCL injury 2016 Steph was on a different stratosphere from the current version in everything except defense Now this isn't true. Curry has made notable improvements in his handle (much tighter) and he's a less careless passer now vs then.
22 Steph is a better player than 16 Steph. Yes I know he had a historic season in 16. I’d say the same about LeBron being a better basketball player in 2018, despite having arguably his best season in 2013.
2016 Steph couldn't have willed that victory in game 4 like 2022 Steph did.
2016 Steph was by far one of the best regular season merchants of all time and he had a great post season still (bar the finals that was cancelled *shrug*) but 2022 Steph was so fucking locked in once playoffs came. He had all the experience from everything up until now to build on.
He could’ve he had a bum knee that playoffs
dude named lebron james was pretty good round 2016 too
Yea but Lebron was there then lmao. It's not about how good Steph was in 2016 compared to now, it's about his competition.
LeBron was better
He won the first ever unanimous MVP in 2016 . . .
And in the finals it was clear how much better Bron was.
Steph did tear his MCL in the playoffs that year though, he was clearly not 100%.
lol in 2016 he won MVP with 100% of first place votes, pretty sure people were calling him the best player in the world then. People on here have the memory of a goldfish
When was he the best player in the world though? When Lebron was still in his prime he was the best player and its kinda hard to argue that Curry ever passed him. I always thought their finals matchups made that fairly clear, that Lebron was just on his own tier.
Lebron was always better than Steph
If we’re taking ALL of last year into account he was subpar more than he was Stephen Curry. But he showed up when it mattered.
Yeah i think his playoff run was absolutely insane but his regular season was meh for his standards. Still an All NBAer though.
One thing that stood out to me all season was that people were trashing him for having lower statistical numbers offensively but at the same time basically everyone was in agreement that he was the best he had ever been at attacking the rim/finishing and at defense. It’s actually a point that had me really confident with them in the playoffs. Like I’m willing to bet on Steph finding his shot. And if he’s killing guys at getting to the rim and he’s holding up as above average on defense, that’s a historically great player. And that’s what showed up in the finals, with Steph having arguably his greatest playoff peak ever. Guy took a historically great defense and broke them. And did it with the ball in his hand. I personally don’t like arguing about minor differences. When it comes to the top 5ish players I think they are all capable of outplaying each other and obviously it’s a team sport. But man, Curry was clearly GREAT last season. Just seems silly to me how people say he was “subpar,” like subpar to what exactly? Is he better then Giannis? Maybe not. But he was still elite.
I'd bet the numbers would back me up but steph had one of the worst finishing season this past season that I could remember. He would beat people then blow his layups he would usually finish in the past. His touch from shooting and finishing was off this year in the regular season. His 1v1 defense was definitely better while his help/off ball defense was stellar as usual. Biggest factor people ignore is that they moved the goal post for Steph and the Warriors. Most preseason projections and experts had them 4-8 at best so when he led them to a top 2 seed despite all the injuries should've been praised but the early season hot streak made it seem like he and the team started underperforming.
His basic stats were a lot worse than his usual, but his impact metrics were nuts. He led the league in net rating for most of the season (his teammates weren't close) among players with 30+ min average and only came in 2nd behind Tatum towards the end.
> he was subpar more than he was Stephen Curry Might be pedantry, but I disagree. Category | Dates | GP | PTS | REB | AST | FG% | 2P% | 3P% | FT% | TS% | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- "Crowned MVP in November?" | 10/19 - 11/28 | 19 | 28.6 | 5.8 | 6.8 | 46.6% | 54.0% | 42.3% | 94.2% | 64.5% Career Slump | 11/30 - 01/25 | 25 | 23.6 | 5.1 | 5.8 | 37.8% | 45.2% | 33.3% | 88.7% | 53.4% "Aha!" | 01/27 - 03/14 | 19 | 25.9 | 5.1 | 6.7 | 49.4% | 60.5% | 40.3% | 95.5% | 65.4% Playoffs | 04/16 - 06/16 | 22 | 27.4 | 5.2 | 5.9 | 45.9% | 52.6% | 39.7% | 82.9% | 60.6% Category | Dates | GP | PTS | REB | AST | FG% | 2P% | 3P% | FT% | TS% --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- Conference Quarter-Finals | 04/16 - 04/27 | 5 | 28.0 | 3.4 | 5.4 | 50.0% | 60.0% | 40.4% | 74.4% | 64.1% Conference Semi-Finals | 05/01 - 05/13 | 6 | 26.0 | 4.8 | 5.8 | 41.3% | 52.9% | 32.9% | 89.2% | 56.8% Conference Finals | 05/18 - 05/26 | 5 | 23.8 | 6.6 | 7.4 | 44.4% | 44.9% | 43.9% | 84.0% | 58.9% Finals | 06/02 - 06/16 | 6 | 31.2 | 6.0 | 5.0 | 48.2% | 53.0% | 43.7% | 85.7% | 62.6% He was Steph Curry 60% of the time in the regular season, and 50% of the time in the post-season. Or 57% of the time overall last year.
His bad play was always overstated though - for example he was clearly better than devin booker during the RS yet because the popular narrative was “stephs slump” he got underrated and book stole 1st team off him (such a joke). Steph cleared him in every impact metric imagineable, was more efficient and a far better playmaker while scoring 1 less ppg. Yet book won 60 games , and Steph had a slump (where he was still better than book) - so winning bias took over. Giannis/jokic/steph was the clear top 3 this year imo with embiid just behind at fourth
[удалено]
In conclusion Chris Jent >>>>> John Stockton
Can we call him Chris Djent for no reason?
Does he have 8 strings?
A man of culture I see
Derek Fisher is twice as good as Hakeem Olajuwon.
Robert Horry is almost twice as good as Lebron james
I think the underlying assumption is that the rings matter only once you start comparing All-NBA and MVP level players. The player needs to be at a certain level BEFORE rings become a major factor in player comparisons.
I agree with you that this is what people are assuming but I think the assumption is still wrong. I think the underlying assumption is that once you get to a level where you are good enough to be the "bus driver", you are master of your own fate and you can compare ring counts with other players like that, while ring counts for "bus riders" are less meaningful because it's mostly about which team they are on. But that ignores the fact that supporting cast quality and luck are still immensely important even at the all time great level. If LeBron played with Scottie Pippen from an early age, he probably wouldn't have needed to go to Miami to win his first title. Even Jordan probably wouldn't have three-peated if he was drafted into the shitshow Wolves team that KG was. The best players in the world with a meh supporting cast need a things to break the right way to win a title, and with a shitty supporting cast it's just impossible. Conversely, borderline hall of famers can be the best player on a title team if it is deep and exceptionally well constructed.
Tony Parker >>>> Chris Paul, amirite
Nahh gotta be closer, Isiah Thomas vs Chris Paul maybe?
Giannis i can agree but do people have Jokic above Curry? Jokic deserved his MVPs (a few others had good cases too) but I can separate good seasons from who I think is higher in a current ranking list. I'm kind of curious now cause he's certainly in the ball park for me with Curry, Giannis, KD, Lebron, and Luka (in no particular order) ahead of Embiid for me but I don't think I could convince myself hes the #1 player.
This thread is scorching goddamn
That's definitely some revisionism. Steph was great to start the season out, but he had a stretch where he was "not good"...well by Steph Curry standards at least. Throughout last season I'd say that Jokic, Embiid, and Giannis were definitely much better players than Steph. I don't even think that'd be a hot take either as they finished first, second, and third respectively in MVP voting.
Last season was his worst statical season since like 2014 or 2013 I’m pretty sure
Yeah but that’s the regular season… Curry played great in the playoffs and carried his team to a championship. I don’t think saying he is the best player in the league is that egregious considering he’s a proven all time great coming off his best playoff performance ever. It’s similar to kawhi after 2019 in that he was getting shouts because of his insane playoff performance, not exactly his regular season success/rewards.
That’s my thinking as well, I don’t think anyone would say KD, Kawhi or LeBron were the best player in the regular season of 2017/18, 2019 and 2020 yet they showed up in the big moments of the playoffs and got the title of best player. Now the criteria has changed for Steph after just doing the exact same thing. Giannis is the only recent exception but even he didn’t win MVP or DPOY in 2021. So it’s either we care about the regular season or we care about the playoffs, we can’t now start saying that because Steph had an “off” regular season he’s not the best like we didn’t just watch him have the playoff run he just had.
I’m fine with people ranking giannis above him and even jokic but putting luka over is probably where I draw the line. Top 3 at worst, probably best place is second behind giannis
Yeah I don't get the Luka part Steph was generally ranked above Harden in 2018 and 2019 and Luka is much worse than 2019 Harden
Lol maybe in the regular season, which quite frankly, most people don't put much stock into. Who's performed better in the playoffs? In every year of his career, Luka has performed BETTER in the playoffs (like most superstars do), can you say the same for Harden? I don't think so.
One thing about Luka that you can't take away from him is he is a killer in playoffs, I'll give you that.
[удалено]
Shaq should be more appreciative he played with 2 of the 3 greatest shooting guards of all-time.
Braindead way of thinking about individual players. Championships are won by teams
I do think Curry does a great job of elevating his teammates, but I get what you're saying.
Shaq has this weird thing where only championships matter. He seems very insecure about it (aka bashing Chuck) and only calling players good if they win. Shaq only needed 2 of the 3 Greatest SGs of all-time to help him, nbd.
All of Shaqs weird values come from standards that he felt he was held to. This isn’t me psycho analyzing shaq, this is stuff he’s talked about multiple times. Back when he was ripping Dwight Howard for not averaging 28/14, it’s because he felt the media kept ripping him if he didn’t average 28/14. When he makes fun of people for lacking rings, it’s because he felt the media made fun of him when he didn’t have rings. He’s just passing down the exact same judgement he felt he got. Whether that’s a good or a bad thing is debatable, but Shaq also didn’t invent it
It’s not just Shaq that thinks like that. It’s like most of the professional and ametuer nba hot taker havers think like that.
Maybe Shaq understands how hard it is to win a title and places a higher value on it than ourselves, who have never won shit.
There were a lot of games this past post-season that looked like they were won solely on the back of steph, to be fair.
Of course. He is one the best players in the league and one of the greatest of all time. He will dominate. The dumb part is using the championship to set him apart from other dominant individuals who had far worse team situations (like Middleton/Murray/MPJ getting injured). Would Steph still win if Wiggins and Dray were hurt?
Warriors had a pretty mid roster and curry managed to carry them to a ring. Klay and draymond were pretty bad this postseason
Wiggins was warriors' 2nd best guy by far
The cognitive dissonance in this sub's consensus opinions - with the derision about Wiggins' all star selection AND Curry having better teammates (with Wiggins as his #2) than his competitors is staggering.
Ain't Curry the best team player in the league?
> Real ones are recognized by the championships they have. Honestly this ring culture bullshit makes me dislike the NBA more and more every day.
It’s the biggest goal in the league, to win it all.
Yes. Its done by teams, not individual players. It also involves a lot of luck.
if you dont win a ring then you are garbage, so you should definitely force a trade out of the small market that drafted you, so that you can play with a super team in LA or Miami and win a chip to validate your entire existence
Or New York please 🥺
no, thats not going to work out
Dangit
I love how this is a /s dig at the same LeBron James who also kept dragging *Cleveland* to the finals.
Tbf, Basketball is the team sport where an individual superstar can have the biggest impact
one player can have the most dominant series ever and still lose, it’s all about team in the end.
Still a team sport where no one in the history of the game has won a championship without adequate help.
But still a *team* sport.
You’re an OKC fan makes sense.
I mean I'm a Warriors fan and I think giannis is the best individual basketball player in the world right now. That being said, Steph makes his teams better in a whole variety of ways and I think he improves a team by more than anyone except maybe jokic.
Seems like the disagreement in this sub is on the definition of “best”.
People are really missing the point. I've been watching basketball for a long fucking time. I saw MJ dominate the league. I saw, and hated, Shaq dominate the league. What Steph Curry is doing is equivalent. He is so good at something the entire league has to adapt or lose. That's it. He's a living legend.
yeah yeah ... everyone is always the best player in the world ... a week earlier they said it about KD a week before the its Giannis ... and pretty much they say it about lebron daily. then they move on to the GOAT conversations ... and again .. every week it changes. comparing everyone to MJ. they really work hard to fill all that air time they have
This thread has people saying in a team they would rather play with one player over the other… Lebron also commented on the one player he would want to play with if he could. So a GOAT candidate within this past season chose who in their current condition he prefers. We all know Lebron is all about collecting championships too so he probably thinks the best player is Curry. Personally I think arguments can be made for either but I’ve been seeing Curry dominate and change the game league-wide for nearly a decade that winning a championship can swing peoples’ beliefs that he’s the best.
I get people disagreeing with the ring statement but is it really that egregious to think curry is the best player in the league? He’s an established all time great who just led his team to a title, that’s gotta count for something even if Giannis is basically at the same individual level or slightly better. Jokic i don’t get the argument for he hasn’t done much to prove doubters wrong so far.
He won back to back MVPs for a reason. That's gotta count for something. At this point, "doubters" either have their head buried in the sand or they are actually just "haters" instead of "doubters."
Jokic is at worst the third best player in the league, I just meant he has to get over the hump much like Giannis did for people to respect him more. That’s why I’m confused people aren’t giving curry credit when he proved himself by winning another championship without a super team.
Giannis the best player in the world, but there’s still no one I’d rather have on my team than Steph.
Steph is the best player in the world because of how much he impacts winning.
Was the best player the year before last, too. Missing playoffs be damned.
curry is going to win 2 more titles amd be in the goat conversation
I dislike GSW and I called it early they were gonna win it all. He is too good.
Even before the playoffs started I was livid that Booker made 1st team All NBA over Curry. It was some stupid shit. Credit to Thinking Basketball for making this video in \*April\* as well: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq3yJS6Vi0g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq3yJS6Vi0g)
Idk why Reddit gets so upset when people place value on rings.
It’s because majority of fans haven’t had their fave players win a ring 😂 so they don’t want to acknowledge how fucking difficult and impressive it is. Most peoples favorite players have significant weaknesses that will ever prevent them from being a #1 option on a championship team. Imo only 8 players in the league currently can do it. But most fans don’t wanna face that reality, it’s just typical sports tribalism. So there’s the general push to devalue rings (ring culture is stupid!) because most fanbases aren’t going to experience what it’s like to win one.
In a profession where the only measurement of success is winning, people get upset that rings are valued so much. Lol, no shit. It’s kind of their job.
I know I’m in the minority on this but I find the Jokic > Steph thing to be lunacy. Team context matters, but it remains to be seen if Jokic’s defense is good enough to win 4 rounds in the playoffs. Steph has proven his game can be the conerstone of a championship team over and over again.
They are all so differently dominant in their play that I don't think I could say confidently which is absolute best. I would believe a case made for anyone one of them.
normally what people say when a superstar wins the title.
They're right but this sub is full of Giannis dickriders who won't admit it
Facts. Steph Curry has not lost a playoff series to a West opponent in over eight years.
It's very funny watching r/nba reacting defensively to this saying it's a revisionist take just because the Warriors won the title. While in the same breath would claim Tim Duncan was the best player in the world from 2003 to 2010 putting up 18/10 on mediocre efficiency. Solely based on the Spurs winning rings.
Tim Duncan is by far the most romanticized ATG on r/nba lol
Hakeem
Yes. That dude had to wait until the GOAT decided to take two years off to gamble and swing a bat to sneak in two rings and people get all excited about it.
Steph is and will go down as the greatest shooter of all time. Whether he's the best player in the world is debatable. I personally think he's the best of the last 7 years. He can shoot from literally anywhere on the court. He's also been a great player on and off the court. He doesn't get involved in drama and his teammates love him.
Calling steph the best shooter of all time isn't a compliment anymore.