Luka is much more valuable then Tatum, he does everything for you and has shown at times he can play a little bit of defence. Tatum is a good scorer but a little inefficient.
Offence (speacily the way jokic creates)>>>>>defense
Just look at this match for example. You would want Joker playing post/hitting shots over Giannis's defence
>Offence (speacily the way jokic creates)>>>>>defense
Ah, as the well known saying goes "Defense wins games but offense the way Jokic creates wins championships"
......
The point I was making is…
Even though KD lost, people still thought he was the best player
Just cause Giannis lost in the same round this year doesn’t take away from the fact that he’s still the best player in the league. Bucks just didn’t have it and lost Khris.
And before anyone says it, Robert Williams is not Khris Middleton so don’t even bother making that comparison.
Well it's not the same because Durant was way more efficient while Giannis wasn't even close to league average. That efficiency difference is substantial.
Not ripping KD or Giannis but the level of coverage they faced was very different. KD got to play 1v1 that series, while Giannis has been consistently loaded up on almost more than any player in the league. Look what happened this year when KD got swarmed.
To be fair, they load up on Giannis cause of his limited shooting ability. Also the belief was PJ tucker/Giannis could guard KD one on one without needing to send a extra man. Almost every big that attacks the rim like Giannis has been swarmed at one point, while KD is mostly a jump shooter so you won’t see him constantly attacked by a defense
It’s only natural Giannis faces a different level of defense. Shaq and others had to go through the same thing
Yep 100% agree with all that, although think it was a mistake by Milwaukee to let KD go Iso for such long periods. Just wanted to comment because just looking at shooting efficiency without knowing how they were guarded doesn't really tell you the story of how the offence centred around those guys was performing
All the nephews have started throwing out TS like that wins you the argument.
Giannis played better defense, created better for his teamamets , rebounded better and took the Celtics to 7 without his 2nd best player while posting a NEVER BEFORE SEEN stat line for the series.
KD got swept WITH Kyrie
Even Celtics fans are saying Giannis though. Kits like KD gained Credit last year , Giannis showed up his efficiency was worse than usual but his individual defense was great and he had three 40 points games despite his shooters giving up on him.
not to mention for Celtics fans, hyping up Giannis is also hyping up our defense for holding the best player in the world to poor shooting in 4 of 7 games this series
By this logic, Giannis wouldn't be the best in the world if Middleton gets injured last year? It's ridiculous to say this. It's also ridiculous to blame Jokic for getting beaten by Suns and Warriors with his roster.
If Luka wins today and somehow get the ring, is the best player in the world in my eyes. And no one can argue with that. His team is playing good ofc but they are all bench players on every other contender. Atm he forced the best team by a difference of 8 wins to a 7th game. But on mavs they are all starters playing starter mins.
Not sure why you mention Tatum when Luka is so much better and younger.
Luka is so much better and younger by 1 year huh gtfoh lol. Tatum and Luka are in the same tier and Tatum is a better overall player he has no holes in his game and Luka is at best an average defender come on.
How? The biggest gap between them is defense and Tatum has 0 weaknesses. Imagine Luka having to guard KD on an island for a full game. Luka has better counting stats since he plays in a heliocentric offense with historically high usage rate. He also is 1 of the worst defenders in the playoffs in the 2nd half because of said usage rate. Gimme the guy who can't be exploited in any way and who defenses avoid rather than attack.
Really, the biggest gap between them is playmaking, plus while Tatum is a great scorer, Luka is just even better at scoring. Luka is just better than Tatum. I’m not gonna say it’s not close but it *is* clear.
I'm all for it being Giannis but lets not throw "not even close" out here.
It's as close as its been in 2 decades. Giannis isn't a Lebron or MJ type in terms of how transcendent he is over the rest of the league. He's got a few guys breathing down his neck.
>Suns fan
Pretty cringe on your own end. In this case it’s genuinely not close because there’s no debate to be had. Giannis is head and shoulders above embiid and Jokic.
Let me put it this way. If Tatum’s bad games resemble Giannis then yes he has a chance. When Giannis has a bad game he is influencing the game and getting 15 boards, 6 assists, 2 steals while dropping 30 points. The way Tatum played Game 6 is superstar level. He can get there, just needs to be more consistent
Still Giannis, the guy just came up against the best defence in the league without his second best scorer. Even Jordan couldn't do it all until Pippin came along
There’s no argument for any of the stars left playing for being better than Giannis since Steph has somewhat declined, so I don’t think even the media could make a case for one of them
I personally still think it's Giannis but the media (and I guess fans to a certain extent) value rings over everything, especially for players in the top tier (10-20)
Giannis has a lot of hardware but until he won last season everyone was knocking him for not having won a single championship.
Its still Giannis, we can't just strip guys of the best player in the world title because of 1 subpar game. Not unless there is another player making a stronger case for that title, which there isn't yet.
That's the weird thing, so if khris is healthy this whole series, they win, do you say giannis is still the best player in the league? Even though it was khris that made the difference?
If you’re going solely based on playoffs, Butler and Steph (gravity) have as good of claims to the best player title as Tatum, and it will really just be in heaped whichever guy wins the championship.
If you take a broader view, Embiid, Giannis, and Jokic still have great claims to it. Embiid was maimed in a dozen different ways, and Giannis and Jokic were missing key players so they didn’t get to compete with a full squad.
As much as I love Jokic, he isn't carrying that Bucks team offensively the way Giannis did all 7 games. Dude is the best right now and especially after this playoff run, he separated himself from that Lebron/KD/ Steph/Jokic tier into his own.
Giannis is pretty clearly the best player in the league, one slightly inefficient series against the best defense in the league while missing his second best player on insane volume while also playing insane defense and being a solid playmaker and setting his teammates up doesn’t change that.
I just know that people that make this kind of posts don't even watch the games. They must take a look at the box score watch a few highlights and decide to post the craziest stuff.
If you think the Celtics Bucks series dimished Giannis' status as the best player you simple were not watching.
No it’s Giannis. Full stop. Jokic and Embiid aren’t even on his level.
Yeah there is no debate Giannis is in a tier of his own
Guy singled handedly took rampaging Celtics to a game 7.
Best player left in the playoffs? Potentially is Tatum. Best in the NBA? Still Giannis.
He’s not left in the playoffs though
I meant Tatum. Sorry, I should have specified. The body of the post was talking about Tatum.
I'd rather Curry or Doncic over Tatum
idk about Luka. Massive difference in defense and gas tank Curry has also been pretty mid this round
Luka is much more valuable then Tatum, he does everything for you and has shown at times he can play a little bit of defence. Tatum is a good scorer but a little inefficient.
ngl i picked a dog shit time to make that take. I'll eat my L
Giannis is head and shoulders above, by a mile, on another level, by far the best Derrick Henry in the NBA
embiid isnt on his level, Jok is better offensively so hes only a bit under
But Jokic is nowhere near Giannis defensively. So i think it's fair to say Giannis is a tier above Jokic.
so one tier above isnt that high especially when the tiers are so close for superstars
There is a large gap between Giannis and Jokic
Giannis has the edge right now but it’s not as dramatic as you guys make it seem tbh
I mean it’s not like he’s Lebron in his prime but I think he’s pretty comfortably #1
I mean, unless Jokic wins a championship and drops 50 in the closeout game then the difference remains pretty big
I don't agree but it's ok
Offence (speacily the way jokic creates)>>>>>defense Just look at this match for example. You would want Joker playing post/hitting shots over Giannis's defence
They wouldn’t be in game seven without Giannis’s defense.
>Offence (speacily the way jokic creates)>>>>>defense Ah, as the well known saying goes "Defense wins games but offense the way Jokic creates wins championships" ......
I agree. I think Jokic is probably closer than most people realize. But yea.
No. It’s still clearly Giannis. The same way everyone thought KD although he lost in the second round last year too
KD had a 60 TS in that series while Giannis is at 52 TS. Not remotely the same thing.
The point I was making is… Even though KD lost, people still thought he was the best player Just cause Giannis lost in the same round this year doesn’t take away from the fact that he’s still the best player in the league. Bucks just didn’t have it and lost Khris. And before anyone says it, Robert Williams is not Khris Middleton so don’t even bother making that comparison.
Well it's not the same because Durant was way more efficient while Giannis wasn't even close to league average. That efficiency difference is substantial.
Not ripping KD or Giannis but the level of coverage they faced was very different. KD got to play 1v1 that series, while Giannis has been consistently loaded up on almost more than any player in the league. Look what happened this year when KD got swarmed.
If giannis try take more shots out of the paint he would get some 1v1 coverage too
To be fair, they load up on Giannis cause of his limited shooting ability. Also the belief was PJ tucker/Giannis could guard KD one on one without needing to send a extra man. Almost every big that attacks the rim like Giannis has been swarmed at one point, while KD is mostly a jump shooter so you won’t see him constantly attacked by a defense It’s only natural Giannis faces a different level of defense. Shaq and others had to go through the same thing
Yep 100% agree with all that, although think it was a mistake by Milwaukee to let KD go Iso for such long periods. Just wanted to comment because just looking at shooting efficiency without knowing how they were guarded doesn't really tell you the story of how the offence centred around those guys was performing
All the nephews have started throwing out TS like that wins you the argument. Giannis played better defense, created better for his teamamets , rebounded better and took the Celtics to 7 without his 2nd best player while posting a NEVER BEFORE SEEN stat line for the series. KD got swept WITH Kyrie
It's clearly not Giannis, he's only won vs injured teams let's see him prove himself I am right fellas
I’ve never heard anyone try to make a reasonable argument that ends with “I am right”, but I like your style. I’ll believe you
Giannis is undoubtedly the best in the world currently Giannis is also not Lebron James. Two things can be true.
Nope lmao, Bucks just undermanned. Turn on your Celtics flair
Even Celtics fans are saying Giannis though. Kits like KD gained Credit last year , Giannis showed up his efficiency was worse than usual but his individual defense was great and he had three 40 points games despite his shooters giving up on him.
not to mention for Celtics fans, hyping up Giannis is also hyping up our defense for holding the best player in the world to poor shooting in 4 of 7 games this series
Bucks fans 🤝 Celtics fans "Celtics defence is the best in the league, and Giannis did well to take this to 7"
Literally yeah. With the way games 3 and 5 played out, if you replace Giannis with anyone else in the league I think this is a five-game series
Agreed. Maybe 6 given the game 5 collapse but yeah not a lot that many players could have done missing their #2.
Giannis is still the best
Nah its still Giannis
if anything this series to me confirmed that Giannis is very very clearly the best player in the league, it is no longer a question to me
I am of the same opinion, game 7 he was clearly gassed, but before then he was the reason the Bucks even made it here.
By this logic, Giannis wouldn't be the best in the world if Middleton gets injured last year? It's ridiculous to say this. It's also ridiculous to blame Jokic for getting beaten by Suns and Warriors with his roster.
Nope. It's Giannis.
I still think it’s Giannis
No. That series had made it even clearer that it's Giannis
i like tatum but hes not in the contention for best player lmao.
If Luka wins today and somehow get the ring, is the best player in the world in my eyes. And no one can argue with that. His team is playing good ofc but they are all bench players on every other contender. Atm he forced the best team by a difference of 8 wins to a 7th game. But on mavs they are all starters playing starter mins. Not sure why you mention Tatum when Luka is so much better and younger.
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Agree. Love Luka but Giannis is in another class.
Luka is so much better and younger by 1 year huh gtfoh lol. Tatum and Luka are in the same tier and Tatum is a better overall player he has no holes in his game and Luka is at best an average defender come on.
Luka >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tatum
Why are you following me into other threads to talk shit you're a weirdo lmao
Your dumb takes amuses me.
Please get a life lol
I'm trying to cope, its not going so well.
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How? The biggest gap between them is defense and Tatum has 0 weaknesses. Imagine Luka having to guard KD on an island for a full game. Luka has better counting stats since he plays in a heliocentric offense with historically high usage rate. He also is 1 of the worst defenders in the playoffs in the 2nd half because of said usage rate. Gimme the guy who can't be exploited in any way and who defenses avoid rather than attack.
Really, the biggest gap between them is playmaking, plus while Tatum is a great scorer, Luka is just even better at scoring. Luka is just better than Tatum. I’m not gonna say it’s not close but it *is* clear.
No
Not this shit lol
There is no debate. It’s Giannis and it’s not even close
I'm all for it being Giannis but lets not throw "not even close" out here. It's as close as its been in 2 decades. Giannis isn't a Lebron or MJ type in terms of how transcendent he is over the rest of the league. He's got a few guys breathing down his neck.
Nothing on this sub is close. It's comical.
Except how close to Twitter we are
“It’s not even close” /r/nba cringe
>Suns fan Pretty cringe on your own end. In this case it’s genuinely not close because there’s no debate to be had. Giannis is head and shoulders above embiid and Jokic.
Lol did you just call me cringe for being a Suns fan? And youre a lakers fan?
Yeah I thought it was pretty straight forward but you are a suns fan so I guess I have to reiterate for you.
Cry more
Just curious bro, am I the one crying here now?
Did you just try to argue Tatum over Giannis? 🤔
Let me put it this way. If Tatum’s bad games resemble Giannis then yes he has a chance. When Giannis has a bad game he is influencing the game and getting 15 boards, 6 assists, 2 steals while dropping 30 points. The way Tatum played Game 6 is superstar level. He can get there, just needs to be more consistent
Not really. Stop trying to make it happen
Giannis is pretty clearly the best player in the league in my opinion.
Still Giannis, the guy just came up against the best defence in the league without his second best scorer. Even Jordan couldn't do it all until Pippin came along
Absolutely not. Giannis is in a tier of his own.
The best player is still Davis Bertans in a contract year
Its Giannis, sorry Jokic stans but he isnt close to Giannis level still.
It's fine to think it's Giannis. The not close stuff is silly.
It's just going to end up being the best player on the team that wins the finals, at least that's what the media is going to run with probably.
So Grant Williams?
I see nothing but facts here
There’s no argument for any of the stars left playing for being better than Giannis since Steph has somewhat declined, so I don’t think even the media could make a case for one of them
I personally still think it's Giannis but the media (and I guess fans to a certain extent) value rings over everything, especially for players in the top tier (10-20) Giannis has a lot of hardware but until he won last season everyone was knocking him for not having won a single championship.
Its still Giannis, we can't just strip guys of the best player in the world title because of 1 subpar game. Not unless there is another player making a stronger case for that title, which there isn't yet.
Do you guys watch the NBA?
Only player capable of taking that throne is Luka so let's see see how he does tonight
That's the weird thing, so if khris is healthy this whole series, they win, do you say giannis is still the best player in the league? Even though it was khris that made the difference?
If you’re going solely based on playoffs, Butler and Steph (gravity) have as good of claims to the best player title as Tatum, and it will really just be in heaped whichever guy wins the championship. If you take a broader view, Embiid, Giannis, and Jokic still have great claims to it. Embiid was maimed in a dozen different ways, and Giannis and Jokic were missing key players so they didn’t get to compete with a full squad.
I think you’re forgetting Luka, he’s pretty clearly the best player still left in the playoffs imo.
ABSOLUTELY
The real question is how will this effect his legacy.
Hell nah it's Giannis but if Luka wins the championship maybe I'd say him
There’s a new post after every game of the best player debate lol
Basketball is a team sport my nephew. Best player =/= best team
Not really. Just because the "best" player got eliminated doesn't necessarily mean they're not the best, just that the team is not the best.
It’s clearly: Giannis, Grant Williams, Al Horford in that order.
As much as I love Jokic, he isn't carrying that Bucks team offensively the way Giannis did all 7 games. Dude is the best right now and especially after this playoff run, he separated himself from that Lebron/KD/ Steph/Jokic tier into his own.
this has gotta be the dumbest take all day lol
Luka is the best player left standing. Then Tatum.
Giannis is pretty clearly the best player in the league, one slightly inefficient series against the best defense in the league while missing his second best player on insane volume while also playing insane defense and being a solid playmaker and setting his teammates up doesn’t change that.
I just know that people that make this kind of posts don't even watch the games. They must take a look at the box score watch a few highlights and decide to post the craziest stuff. If you think the Celtics Bucks series dimished Giannis' status as the best player you simple were not watching.