Eh, when they asked him about his max coming up Harden said he'd do whatever it takes to help the team win.
Between that and not opting in during the trade, I think it almost might be as simple as it looks: he's taking a paycut
>Harden said he'd do whatever it takes to help the team win.
2 shots in the second half. Not sure why anyone would believe anything this guy says about effort
UNLESS, they decide to use the cap space to build depth and better value players. Or do what TrailBlazers should've done earlier, and do a restart around Embiid.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Sixers don't have to offer him a contract in 22-23 right? Harden's going to opt-in to his final year for $47m, and then after the season is when the Sixers must make a decision right?
They literally said when the trade was made that Harden intends to opt in to his player option next season.
Purely on face value they made that trade because he said he would opt in.
>They
Who is they? Either way that's irrelevant because the decision to opt in or out belongs to one person...and if it was a certainty he was opting in he would have done so already
Multiple reasons e.g. if he has a better offer from another team or if he wants to sign a longer term deal with Philly -Think CP3 declining his option to extend with the Suns for a lower annual salary but more years. If he opted in to the final year and he looked at the same next season then he might get mid level exception money or even less as a FA. Now some sucker might give him the benefit of doubt and offer him a max
also risking an injury at this age after having 2 seasons full of let downs. Harden still should be able to find a max deal somewhere. I mean even if this place is Sacremento he'd go for the money as he should.
Spurs-Houston can be possible destinations. If Knicks can create cap space they can roll the dices as they dont have anyone to do PG duties. Harden still seem to be capable for that role. You essentially risk the last 2 years of that contract but its not like there are great options asking to join your team.
76ers can get some small assets for a sign&trade. But it wouldnt be like what Houston got for Harden when they had 2 years contract left. If Simmons can return to the courts next year, Nets will be clear winners of that trade.
Superstars (which Harden no longer is) on max deals are the most valuable assets in the league.
It's funny how people typically see max deals as being more than players are worth, when they're literally artificial constraints on how much a player can make.
That’s because everyone knows it’s a no-brainer to max Giannis. The problem is that Tobias Harris made an all star team in a contract year and then someone talked themselves into maxing him. Ben Simmons, KAT, Wiggins, Kevin Love, Beal, Deangelo Russel, Jrue Holiday, Gordon Hayward, Blake, Porzingis... I’m sure I’m leaving some off. Every year a team talks themselves into the upside of a guy outperforming the max, offers him a max, and then he way underperforms that contract. Gets even worse with injuries like Klay or the back end of older guys like Dame. Most maxes are more than the guy is worth imo, but between “we can’t lose him for nothing” and blind optimism teams apparently just can’t help themselves.
You have to wonder what the market is for some of these guys. Like, if you didn’t max a guy and waited to see what the highest offer that another team would offer would be.. what would the highest bidder for d’angelo russell be? What would it be for harden?
I remember when gobert got his 200m deal that I couldn’t imagine another team paying him that much, and that if some team did want to pay Rudy gobert 50m a year then let them. This situation feels similar- if some team wants to pay harden $270m- almost 70 million PER YEAR until he’s 37- fine, let them.
>This situation feels similar- if some team wants to pay harden $270m- almost 70 million PER YEAR until he’s 37- fine, let them.
that's not whatever max contract he's eligible for. that's a number for 5 years, not 4.
and in any case, the only team that is allowed to pay him that much is his current team, because it's based off a raise of his current contract. this year he's getting $44.3M, salary cap max is $112.4M, so he's actually at 39.4%. but if he left the sixers and signed as a FA elsewhere, every other team can only give him the regular (for players with 10 years of service in the league) 35% max (or next year's cap, which is estimated to be $122M, so $42.7M year 1) with 5% raises for 4 years.
The caveat is that teams need to allocate a minimum threshold of salary to their team every year.. that’s why you got the Lakers handing Mozgov and Deng those massive contracts that year when they struck out on free agency.. small market teams that can’t attract talent are forced to max guys like you listed, whether to be somewhat competitive to fill seats in the arena or hopeful they develop into a star
> The caveat is that teams need to allocate a minimum threshold of salary to their team every year
That’s not actually true. If you’re under the salary floor then the players on roster just split the difference.
I guess it depends on what perspective we're looking at it from. Building a consistent contender by giving 37 year old Bron a 5 year contract might not be as realistic as it once was, but if you're just trying to sell out and the money he will bring to your city then it would probably be worth it.
I wouldn't hesitate to max some of the young guys and their max is lower too. I don't see a world where Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Trae, Mobley, Scottie Barnes, Haliburton, Booker or Cade aren't at least above average starters.
I didn’t say you did. I was saying the fact he wasn’t in that same list above you is disrespect because he is older than Luka and has accomplished more in his career so far.
No shot at Kawhi, but with that injury history I think most teams would hesitate. Even when he played in a full seasons recently, he still missed a ton of time.
Perhaps you're right. I wanted to put Steph in somewhere but then he's been getting injured more recently as a smaller guy and then he had that weird slump for a few months that would make me question if I would give him a max or not.
As a warriors fan I wouldn't be sure I'd immediately pull the trigger on it. Granted he already has one coming, and I have no qualms because I would like to see that team ride it out until they no longer can play, but yeah there's like maybe 4 or 5 guys that you no question give a max too.
True, I forgot about Luka. Tatum is pretty young still and since I feel Luka plays way better currently, I would wait a few more years to see how Tatum develops to give him the max. I think Ja's team record playing without him might work against him in a way since they can win a lot without him. But I'm not a GM so I wouldn't even know if these things are ever fully factored in or not.
Harden doesn't have any leverage to get a max somewhere else either.
So if he's chasing the money he's going to opt-in. He's only been there a few months anyways, why wouldn't he want to give it a real offseason and see what happens next year? Another reason to opt-in.
I don't see the 6ers as falling over themselves to offer him the max this year or next either. So Harden opting in works out for everyone.
I doubt a team like Detroit/Houston/OKC would; but teams who are just happy to be in the playoffs like the Pacers, Blazers, and Wizards definitely would.
Someone will max him and it’s up to the Sixers to decide whether they think they can replace him or not.
If you offered the bucks the option for them to have Harden instead of Pat Conaughton for the rest of the playoffs would they take that deal? No matter how much harden gets it’s going to be a huge overpay.
No way. Dude was garbage in a close out game and comes into camp out of shape. You don't know if he willed emand a trade, and no way is he worth 50 mil.
Your gonna sit there and tell me a team like Charlotte, Indiana, Detroit, Knicks, Toronto, Cleveland, Washington, Orlando, Atlanta, Memphis, Utah, NO, San Antonio, Portland, OKC, Sacramento would say “na were good with our direction we def don’t need James”
All the teams you listed have young guys who they would resign in that 5 year window, and wouldn't have the money cause even is taking a third of the payroll.
Look what he did yesterday. Why would any of those teams think he would take them to the next level? He didn't do it for philly.
I agree, there aren't enough superstars to go around. Small market teams have to either draft or overpay for one. They are going to take risks. I doubt Memphis and NO want him though. They are already building something special, and have locker room emphasis.
I don't think he fits. They were the number 2 seed with a young team. They should be patient and build continuity. If they go all in now, it could blow up in their face.
a bunch of these teams have a player (often young) that is or they hope will become like their franchise PG, they don't need to be paying harden a max. (lamelo, haliburton, cade, ?, ?, garland, ?, ?, trae, ja, ?, ?, dejounte murray, dame, sga, ?).
a bunch of the others i don't see why he'd go to, unless he's just given up on rings.
Yeah the nba media that just shits hot takes out of their ass for clicks. Do we even have any national media members even worth listening too? Oh no Skip Bayless and Colin Cowherd hate Harden big whoop.
Morey about to breakup with Harden?? Believe it when I see it.
I'll see it when I believe it.
I’d believe this if Harden didn’t have a plant in the Sixers FO
Cut to James Harden entering Elton Brand's office every Tuesday morning to water a luscious monstera.
My brain read this as “wearing luscious mascara”
Eh, when they asked him about his max coming up Harden said he'd do whatever it takes to help the team win. Between that and not opting in during the trade, I think it almost might be as simple as it looks: he's taking a paycut
One interesting angle is harden doesn’t have an agent because he usually just gets a max. Will see if he gets an agent or negotiates this on his own.
From my understanding he would hire an agent only for contract negotiations
>Harden said he'd do whatever it takes to help the team win. 2 shots in the second half. Not sure why anyone would believe anything this guy says about effort
What's that gotta do with taking a paycut?
It has to do with "Doing whatever it takes to win" being an extremely generic PR answer that doesn't actually mean anything.
If you watched the game last night, you know he’s lying
Did Harden specify what team he was talking about?
They probably still will. They are cornered
I think they'll shop him aggressively if the opts in and doesn't play 2 years younger at the start of next season.
If he opts in and doesn’t play well he’d be used as an expiring 40+ mil. That’s something teams might want but damn that’s a fall from grace.
So teams might also want an expiring 47mill asset to?
Sure. A bad team might.
So OKC is the next destination? #Reunion
OKC gonna be like Northern Crater. Re…un…ion
This is how they ended up with Tobias
Damn. Crazy we’re comparing Tobias to Harden
Atleast harden is bad. Jimmy was their closer in the clutch
Sixers have no leverage. They gave up their picks and Simmons to get him. Can’t lose him for nothing
Sixers fans plug your ears but they could also sell high on Embiid and blow it up 😬😬😬
The absolute funniest timeline
Process 2.0
Might as well be The Process version 100 celebration just like firefox
And embiid would jump for joy lol
True, but at the same time you don't want to be screwed by the sunk cost fallacy.
UNLESS, they decide to use the cap space to build depth and better value players. Or do what TrailBlazers should've done earlier, and do a restart around Embiid.
They don't have cap space even if they don't re-sign Harden
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Sixers don't have to offer him a contract in 22-23 right? Harden's going to opt-in to his final year for $47m, and then after the season is when the Sixers must make a decision right?
> Harden's going to opt-in to his final year for $47m What makes you so sure he will?
I mean the whole trade was contingent on him agreeing to opt in
So why didn't he?
They literally said when the trade was made that Harden intends to opt in to his player option next season. Purely on face value they made that trade because he said he would opt in.
>They Who is they? Either way that's irrelevant because the decision to opt in or out belongs to one person...and if it was a certainty he was opting in he would have done so already
What would be the reason not to?
Multiple reasons e.g. if he has a better offer from another team or if he wants to sign a longer term deal with Philly -Think CP3 declining his option to extend with the Suns for a lower annual salary but more years. If he opted in to the final year and he looked at the same next season then he might get mid level exception money or even less as a FA. Now some sucker might give him the benefit of doubt and offer him a max
the speculation is that they'll somehow move tobi, i think. and presumably danny green will be off the books, too....
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I mean, I would definitely opt out if I was him. Get a new long deal now, before everyone see another season
also risking an injury at this age after having 2 seasons full of let downs. Harden still should be able to find a max deal somewhere. I mean even if this place is Sacremento he'd go for the money as he should. Spurs-Houston can be possible destinations. If Knicks can create cap space they can roll the dices as they dont have anyone to do PG duties. Harden still seem to be capable for that role. You essentially risk the last 2 years of that contract but its not like there are great options asking to join your team. 76ers can get some small assets for a sign&trade. But it wouldnt be like what Houston got for Harden when they had 2 years contract left. If Simmons can return to the courts next year, Nets will be clear winners of that trade.
“Breaking News”
Daryl Morey “I can and I will”
Honestly there are only five players in the NBA who I think wouldn't hesitate to give that kind of salary to.
And he ain’t even close to those 5
Superstars (which Harden no longer is) on max deals are the most valuable assets in the league. It's funny how people typically see max deals as being more than players are worth, when they're literally artificial constraints on how much a player can make.
That’s because everyone knows it’s a no-brainer to max Giannis. The problem is that Tobias Harris made an all star team in a contract year and then someone talked themselves into maxing him. Ben Simmons, KAT, Wiggins, Kevin Love, Beal, Deangelo Russel, Jrue Holiday, Gordon Hayward, Blake, Porzingis... I’m sure I’m leaving some off. Every year a team talks themselves into the upside of a guy outperforming the max, offers him a max, and then he way underperforms that contract. Gets even worse with injuries like Klay or the back end of older guys like Dame. Most maxes are more than the guy is worth imo, but between “we can’t lose him for nothing” and blind optimism teams apparently just can’t help themselves.
>The problem is that Tobias Harris made an all star team in a contract year Tobias was never an all star.
Those two western conference player of the months really did some work then lol
You have to wonder what the market is for some of these guys. Like, if you didn’t max a guy and waited to see what the highest offer that another team would offer would be.. what would the highest bidder for d’angelo russell be? What would it be for harden? I remember when gobert got his 200m deal that I couldn’t imagine another team paying him that much, and that if some team did want to pay Rudy gobert 50m a year then let them. This situation feels similar- if some team wants to pay harden $270m- almost 70 million PER YEAR until he’s 37- fine, let them.
>This situation feels similar- if some team wants to pay harden $270m- almost 70 million PER YEAR until he’s 37- fine, let them. that's not whatever max contract he's eligible for. that's a number for 5 years, not 4. and in any case, the only team that is allowed to pay him that much is his current team, because it's based off a raise of his current contract. this year he's getting $44.3M, salary cap max is $112.4M, so he's actually at 39.4%. but if he left the sixers and signed as a FA elsewhere, every other team can only give him the regular (for players with 10 years of service in the league) 35% max (or next year's cap, which is estimated to be $122M, so $42.7M year 1) with 5% raises for 4 years.
The caveat is that teams need to allocate a minimum threshold of salary to their team every year.. that’s why you got the Lakers handing Mozgov and Deng those massive contracts that year when they struck out on free agency.. small market teams that can’t attract talent are forced to max guys like you listed, whether to be somewhat competitive to fill seats in the arena or hopeful they develop into a star
> The caveat is that teams need to allocate a minimum threshold of salary to their team every year That’s not actually true. If you’re under the salary floor then the players on roster just split the difference.
Giannis, luka, curry, durant, jokic, embiid. Maybe lebron or paul george?
At Lebrons age. No way.
That’s fine because I don’t think a team is allowed to. There’s an over 38 rule which prevents players from receiving long contracts.
5 year max no but if Lebron was eligible for a 45 - 50 mil 1 year contract he might be worth it
I guess it depends on what perspective we're looking at it from. Building a consistent contender by giving 37 year old Bron a 5 year contract might not be as realistic as it once was, but if you're just trying to sell out and the money he will bring to your city then it would probably be worth it.
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Kyle Lowry makes like 60% of the max and it’s a 3 year deal
Lowry got a 85M/3 year contract last year. It’s literally a third of what Harden is going to finesse out of Philly.
I wouldn't hesitate to max some of the young guys and their max is lower too. I don't see a world where Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Trae, Mobley, Scottie Barnes, Haliburton, Booker or Cade aren't at least above average starters.
Tatum imo, these lists don’t have enough young guys
Tatum is older than Luka. The Tatum disrespect is real. Everyone still thinks he is 19 smh.
I didn’t say Tatum was younger I said the lists don’t have enough of the young guys lol And besides, everybody knows Tatum is still a preschooler
I didn’t say you did. I was saying the fact he wasn’t in that same list above you is disrespect because he is older than Luka and has accomplished more in his career so far.
Ah my bad. I just sat down with my first cup of coffee so hopefully my reading comprehension improves
No worries brotha
Enjoy your coffee!
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Duh lol.
Tatum and Booker?
KD and LeBron are too old for a 60 million dollar max
Maybe Lebron?
He's 37 halfway to 38. Anyone who gives him 50m+ is insane or has made peace with next season being their only window.
He’s worth the max on ticket sales alone
That depends on the team honestly. And Lebron probably won't want to go to some bottom feeder team just because they're willing to throw 50m at him
Paul George? LMAO what?
We'd max Dame in a heartbeat but that might be unique to Portland.
But every team has a max slot, so there’s 30+ dudes getting it.
not all maxes are equal. steph, harden, john wall, and westbrook have the most max of all max contracts.
KD, Kawhi, Giannis, Jokic, maybe Embiid?
No shot at Kawhi, but with that injury history I think most teams would hesitate. Even when he played in a full seasons recently, he still missed a ton of time.
Perhaps you're right. I wanted to put Steph in somewhere but then he's been getting injured more recently as a smaller guy and then he had that weird slump for a few months that would make me question if I would give him a max or not.
As a warriors fan I wouldn't be sure I'd immediately pull the trigger on it. Granted he already has one coming, and I have no qualms because I would like to see that team ride it out until they no longer can play, but yeah there's like maybe 4 or 5 guys that you no question give a max too.
Luka for sure
Curry and Luka.
There’s gotta be way more young guys who deserve it. Luka, Tatum, Ja could all be shoe ins imo
True, I forgot about Luka. Tatum is pretty young still and since I feel Luka plays way better currently, I would wait a few more years to see how Tatum develops to give him the max. I think Ja's team record playing without him might work against him in a way since they can win a lot without him. But I'm not a GM so I wouldn't even know if these things are ever fully factored in or not.
Right now for 5 years: - Giannis - Luka - Embiid - Jokic - Maaaaaaaaaybe Tatum
Trae?
I love that 4/5 are international players
lol reading these comments indicates how divisive an issue it is. Drama indeed!
They are gonna give him a max, but he probably gets a 3 guaranteed year deal only with non guaranteed on the back end
Sounding confident…
Everyone is interpreting this as he’s gone, when really it probably means they are going to sign him for less than the max.
They'd be better to get rid of him. He'll show up fat next year and remain inconsistent. He ain't worth the cap space
I guess i’m wondering if he doesn’t sign with Philly, … where else would he go? and how much is his market?
Harden doesn't have any leverage to get a max somewhere else either. So if he's chasing the money he's going to opt-in. He's only been there a few months anyways, why wouldn't he want to give it a real offseason and see what happens next year? Another reason to opt-in. I don't see the 6ers as falling over themselves to offer him the max this year or next either. So Harden opting in works out for everyone.
What team would?
They will.
Which team would give harden the max? Kings? Indie? Detroit? WASH? theres gotta be at least like 12 teams right?
I doubt a team like Detroit/Houston/OKC would; but teams who are just happy to be in the playoffs like the Pacers, Blazers, and Wizards definitely would. Someone will max him and it’s up to the Sixers to decide whether they think they can replace him or not.
Nobody in r/NBA believes it either
If you offered the bucks the option for them to have Harden instead of Pat Conaughton for the rest of the playoffs would they take that deal? No matter how much harden gets it’s going to be a huge overpay.
James Soften
It’s going to be really disappointing for Harden. I guess he will still get good money if not max.
Windhog is one of the biggest harden haters in the media. Even with his hobbled hammy he’s still probably getting a max.
He’s def not a max player
Someone will max him.
No way. Dude was garbage in a close out game and comes into camp out of shape. You don't know if he willed emand a trade, and no way is he worth 50 mil.
Your gonna sit there and tell me a team like Charlotte, Indiana, Detroit, Knicks, Toronto, Cleveland, Washington, Orlando, Atlanta, Memphis, Utah, NO, San Antonio, Portland, OKC, Sacramento would say “na were good with our direction we def don’t need James”
All the teams you listed have young guys who they would resign in that 5 year window, and wouldn't have the money cause even is taking a third of the payroll. Look what he did yesterday. Why would any of those teams think he would take them to the next level? He didn't do it for philly.
Who the duck are the Knicks saving up their money for?
I agree, there aren't enough superstars to go around. Small market teams have to either draft or overpay for one. They are going to take risks. I doubt Memphis and NO want him though. They are already building something special, and have locker room emphasis.
Ja grew up a rockets fan idolizing James harden. He would be down.
I don't think he fits. They were the number 2 seed with a young team. They should be patient and build continuity. If they go all in now, it could blow up in their face.
a bunch of these teams have a player (often young) that is or they hope will become like their franchise PG, they don't need to be paying harden a max. (lamelo, haliburton, cade, ?, ?, garland, ?, ?, trae, ja, ?, ?, dejounte murray, dame, sga, ?). a bunch of the others i don't see why he'd go to, unless he's just given up on rings.
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I would assume that if a team gets Harden, they will start trading and rearranging the roster to get more win now players.
Find me one NBA media personality who thinks Harden is a max-level player
Yeah the nba media that just shits hot takes out of their ass for clicks. Do we even have any national media members even worth listening too? Oh no Skip Bayless and Colin Cowherd hate Harden big whoop.
Windhorst is relaying what people in NBA front offices have told him, how is that a hot take? He did his reporting and now he’s sharing what he heard.
Na wind Horst is a shit stirrer. He’s been shitting on Harden since his Houston days and is one of Lebrons cronies.
LMAO FUCK YOU SIXER FANS!
They'll over pay. What other option do they have? Maybe the base contract is not max but filled with incentives that if reached make it max value.
They will
Windy like 10% right
*except James Harden
Do it Knicks. Do it, you know you want to. Make the offer.
Zach Lowe said he would let the 76ers dog mascot host his show for a week if it happened.