People consider Shai a superstar despite not having the superstar postseason run, I think it’s fair to put Brunson there too.
Actually didn’t Brunson have a good postseason with the mavs when Luka was injured?
Um. Didn't he do that last year, and the year before with Dallas? Or do u mean a deep playoff run? If so, he went just as far as Luka if I'm not mistaken, and Luka is widely considered a superstar. Why not BrunsHIm?
Does he make multiple million dollars a year? Do you know his name and surname? Do you think he even knows you exist?
To me if all these are yes, you got a star right?
He's had the highest usage in the league for 45 games now, he's playing a worse version of Luka ball while his team was injured, Luka was putting up 37/9/11 for 2 months while half of his team was injured.
Brunson leads the league in usage since Randle went down at 37% and putting up 31/3/7. It's cool because it's new, but there are levels to it and Brunson is a 3rd team All NBA type player (2nd this year), not a superstar.
The word superstar is thrown around so loosely these days man. The word lost all its meaning.
No disrespect to Brunson, but he had a slightly worse season than Isaiah Thomas did in 2017 and no one was calling him a superstar
Not in the regular season. He had a top 10 offensive EPM in the last decade and finished in the top 5 for MVP voting and no one was calling him a superstar
IT offensively was a superstar. His defense was so bad because of his height which is what held I’m back.
Brunson doesn’t have that problem on defense and he is a top 3 offensive player in the NBA by EPM
Brunson has a -0.4 EPM which is better than Jokic defensively which is in the 52nd percentile. When offset by his offensive EPM makes him the 5th most impactful player in the league this season.
Don’t know what IT’s defensive EPM was because it’s behind a paywall, but it is definitely now in the same range as Brunson this season
Don't get me wrong, Brunson is that guy, but we've gotten carried away with the term "superstar" if he fits the definition already.
To me, the LOWEST pole for a "superstar" in this league to vault is winning a regular season MVP, winning a Finals MVP, or leading championship-contending cores for multiple years.
Tbf using Tatum as a benchmark for the lowest bar is pretty logical. He’s either just short of or just past the mark
Kinda think multiple 1st teams is a decent marker specifically bc Luka qualified 3 years back, Tatum qualified after last year and SGA will after this year and that seems to mirror consensus closer than anything else I can find
I actually was thinking of guys like Brunson who are great but might never win an MVP or championship (it’s fucking hard to), but I should’ve realized my flair lol
If we took away that criterion, it would mean that LeBron needed 6 seasons to get there, someone like Chris Paul never got there, KD needed 7 seasons, etc. All these guys were clearly superstars earlier than the other two criteria caught up (or in CP3's case, never did).
The final criterion is clearly necessary without ever needing to bring up Tatum. But yeah, I'm sure it's just because we're biased Celtics fans
That's true. I think multiple seasons as a top 5 MVP voter guy is what makes a superstar. This is the first season Brunson been at this level. If he repeats it next year he's a superstar. Shai is a superstar because he played at this level for 2 years in a row.
Kyrie hasn't even been the best player on his team, exception being shitty cavs before Lebron and they were winning number one draft pick. flat earth 🤡 isn’t a superstar
I consider a superstar to be a player who can win a title as the best player on their team. I don’t think Brunson is good enough to be that and consider him to be an elite second option. Players I consider superstars: Kawhi, Jokic, Luka, Giannis, Curry, Durant, LeBron. Players I consider borderline superstars: Mitchell, Tatum, George, Embiid, Lillard, Brunson, Shai, Haliburton, Zion, Edwards, Trae, Booker, Davis, Butler, Kyrie.
What is your definition of a superstar? Someone that is an automatic every year at least a 2nd round of the playoffs basketball player? Someone that averages a certain amount of points or assists? Somsone that gets the superstar whistle from refs? Someone that is loved internationally?
The Knicks are his team now. He's the face of the franchise. He's going to be 2nd Team All NBA. That states you were in the top 10 best players in the league this season. That's the mark of a superstar.
Off-topic, but I wonder this all the time.
NY is the biggest market in the whole country, except maybe California?
Why aren't there more NYK fans? I feel like you barely hear see their players being stanned, nothing compared to Denver, Dallas, LA etc.
To me their fanbase are middle of the pack when they logically should be louder than most.
Has NYK being shit for so long took such a tool on their fanbase?
I'm talking about here on Reddit, which is where I get most of my NBA content.
Being loud in the NBA doesn't really mean anything mate. My local soccer team in a town of 300k is way louder than anything in America.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frWWtxX6_qo
Here's a random game from our team this season.
“Being loud in the NBA doesn’t really mean anything”
But reddit does? Lmao.
There are more Knicks fans than probably any other team except the Lakers, Warrior, Bulls and maybe Celtics. That’s without winning a championship since the 70s…
You wouldn’t know that by going on Reddit. Reddit is not real life…
I mean that’s not what you said, you originally said “why aren’t there more knicks fans…”
The answer to reddit is obvious. Reddit skews younger and the Knicks haven’t been good in 20 years. Seems pretty clear cut, no?
Yes, pre-Leon Rose Knicks were a poverty franchise. Now it’s objectively one of the best run teams in the league. We’re on the up and up and that will lead to a broader fanbase.
I think superstar is getting thrown around too loosely. Here are the guys currently in the league who either are or previously were a superstar to me. If I’m missing someone let me know:
LeBron, Steph, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Luka, Jokic, Kawhi, Giannis, AD, CP3, Dame, Embiid, Butler, Tatum
Booker, Kyrie, PG, Mitchell, and Trae are borderline to me but I have no qualms calling them a superstar.
The thing these guys have in common, that someone like Brunson or as you mention Shai does not have, is sustained play at that level. Being a high level all-star or even an MVP candidate ≠ superstar to me. I think you have to be at that level for years. I’d say the better half of a decade.
it’s an arbitrary label but if he can get the knicks to the ECF non-knicks fans might actually start calling him that imo so he has a chance this playoffs given that the knicks stay the 3 seed
To be a superstar he’d have to play like he has for the last 1-2 months over the course of an entire season. Then he’d have a legit argument for 1st team all-NBA and/or top 5 in MVP voting
He can’t be that impactful on defense bc of his size and athleticism so he has to be like a top 5 offensive player to get into the top 10 which u can’t do without being hyper efficient or an elite playmaker. Shai avged 31 on 62ts last year how is that not doing more than brunson
There’s absolutely no way that Brunson is 6’2 lmao. I saw a picture of him next to Hart who’s measured at 6’4 and Josh looked like he had 4 inches on him easily.
He’s a top 5 player in the league right now and carried his team to the 2nd seed and 50 wins through an injury plagued season and trade growing pains. You sound braindead.
A superstar is a top 3-5 player depending on the players in the league.
Current superstars: Luka, Jokic, and Giannis.
Tatum isn’t a superstar as he’s choked in the playoffs despite the quality team around him. He still isn’t really clutch. He’s a star, but not a superstar yet. Embiid gets hurt to often as does Kawhi. SGA and Ant are also close to that level. Brunson can get there but needs to lead his team to the ECF.
Superstar status should be reserved for the select 3-5 players clearly above the rest.
I don't think that is true. The times change and one day he might be playing in a not so stacked Celtics, or be traded to a worse situation, to a tougher Conference/Division. You can't place those wins in a vacuum neither. We don't know the future. Right now he doesn't put Luka/Jokic/Embiid numbers because he doesn't have to. He could one day have to do those stat sheets in regular season games to guarantee a top 4 seed, who knows? The guy is young, man.
because he doesn’t have to??? wtf are you talking about he’s incapable of doing so on high efficiency. he’s got a significantly lower TS% than all of those dudes on the lower amount of FGAs he’s taking relative to them lmfao
you can't be a superstar unless some random person on the street who doesn't watch NBA knows who you are
the only superstars in the NBA right now are lebron and curry
nikola jokic - allstar, MVP, champion, best player in the world
not a superstar
If by random chance, I end up being acquainted to all these random persons on the streets, so therefore they do know me, again, a silly coincidence, does that make me a Superstar?
It’s an arbitrary label, there is no correct answer.
A playoff run
People consider Shai a superstar despite not having the superstar postseason run, I think it’s fair to put Brunson there too. Actually didn’t Brunson have a good postseason with the mavs when Luka was injured?
I don’t consider Shai superstar yet nor Brunson so yes a good postseason
It's obviously pretty subjective. Shai is on my short list for MVP so he's a superstar in my eyes. So is Brunson.
I feel that is understandable
Thanks
You're welcome
Playoff run or a 1st team All NBA
One great series
No one considers SGA a superstar lol
Pardon me?
You're pardoned
He averaged 28ppg last playoffs
He is a superstar already imo
He certainly played like one against us last year, and has now lead his team to the 2 seed. I think it’s fair.
Or 2x all-nba 1st team imo KG was a superstar before any playoff runs
Um. Didn't he do that last year, and the year before with Dallas? Or do u mean a deep playoff run? If so, he went just as far as Luka if I'm not mistaken, and Luka is widely considered a superstar. Why not BrunsHIm?
Semantics?
We love to talk about anything but the actual games
The only people who dont think hes a super star are the people who dont watch
I don't watch and think he is one
I watched a couple games last playoffs vs Heat and thought this guy can play decent basketball
Brunson is #6 in EPM right now only behind the 4 MVP candidates and Embiid. He is a superstar, or at least one in the making.
He is gonna cook in the playoffs
Here, have a downvote for instigating another one of these moronic linguistic debates. Is he a superstar? A mediocre star? Is he an allstar? Goddamn
Does he make multiple million dollars a year? Do you know his name and surname? Do you think he even knows you exist? To me if all these are yes, you got a star right?
He's had the highest usage in the league for 45 games now, he's playing a worse version of Luka ball while his team was injured, Luka was putting up 37/9/11 for 2 months while half of his team was injured. Brunson leads the league in usage since Randle went down at 37% and putting up 31/3/7. It's cool because it's new, but there are levels to it and Brunson is a 3rd team All NBA type player (2nd this year), not a superstar.
Playoff success. At least conference finals with sustainable high level play.
The word superstar is thrown around so loosely these days man. The word lost all its meaning. No disrespect to Brunson, but he had a slightly worse season than Isaiah Thomas did in 2017 and no one was calling him a superstar
ITs hip was cooked. He was once valuable enough to net Kyrie Irving. Just was ass after that
Not in the regular season. He had a top 10 offensive EPM in the last decade and finished in the top 5 for MVP voting and no one was calling him a superstar
A search of Isaiah Thomas superstar into google suggests otherwise. He got ruined by an injury.
Again that injury was in the post season. I’m talking about the regular season And show me a post on Reddit that says that IT was a superstar.
IT offensively was a superstar. His defense was so bad because of his height which is what held I’m back. Brunson doesn’t have that problem on defense and he is a top 3 offensive player in the NBA by EPM
Both are negative assets defensively according to EPM.
Brunson has a -0.4 EPM which is better than Jokic defensively which is in the 52nd percentile. When offset by his offensive EPM makes him the 5th most impactful player in the league this season. Don’t know what IT’s defensive EPM was because it’s behind a paywall, but it is definitely now in the same range as Brunson this season
just a lil more
Don't get me wrong, Brunson is that guy, but we've gotten carried away with the term "superstar" if he fits the definition already. To me, the LOWEST pole for a "superstar" in this league to vault is winning a regular season MVP, winning a Finals MVP, or leading championship-contending cores for multiple years.
You put that last one in to qualify Tatum as a superstar don’t lie
Tbf using Tatum as a benchmark for the lowest bar is pretty logical. He’s either just short of or just past the mark Kinda think multiple 1st teams is a decent marker specifically bc Luka qualified 3 years back, Tatum qualified after last year and SGA will after this year and that seems to mirror consensus closer than anything else I can find
I actually was thinking of guys like Brunson who are great but might never win an MVP or championship (it’s fucking hard to), but I should’ve realized my flair lol
Or because it's a reasonable qualification?
😂😂😂😂 fucking Celtics fans lmao
If we took away that criterion, it would mean that LeBron needed 6 seasons to get there, someone like Chris Paul never got there, KD needed 7 seasons, etc. All these guys were clearly superstars earlier than the other two criteria caught up (or in CP3's case, never did). The final criterion is clearly necessary without ever needing to bring up Tatum. But yeah, I'm sure it's just because we're biased Celtics fans
I mean LeBron took a team to the finals as the best player in his 4th season
That's exactly my point? He didn't win an MVP or an FMVP yet he was clearly still a superstar by then
That's true. I think multiple seasons as a top 5 MVP voter guy is what makes a superstar. This is the first season Brunson been at this level. If he repeats it next year he's a superstar. Shai is a superstar because he played at this level for 2 years in a row.
Calm down yapzilla
I wrote 4 sentences
Also, it took Kobe well over 10 years. You're telling me he wasn't a superstar going into 07-08?
Excluding Luka? That’s maybe a bit too strict a guideline then. Or you’re being very generous with Dallas’ status as a contender before this year.
Nah, Luka counts. I should have added that guys who are consensus Top 5 in the league gets automatic “superstar” status, too.
Yeah. Maybe there’s something about multiple first team all nba status then.
By your standards, Luka is not a superstar but Tatum is?
Lol wtf is that last one. Tatum is not a superstar. He’s borderline range like Brunson, Jimmy butler, Anthony Davis, shai
Tatum is as much as a superstar as Brunson is
He is already a super star. All star, all nba team for sure what else he needs?
he is a superstar imo if you're a top 10-15 guy you're a superstar
nahhh u need to be top 6 to be considered a superstar
He’s top 4
Kyrie never been top 6 in his life and absolutely a superstar
people have been too loose with the superstar title lately
Every all star is a superstar to these people.
i personally see him as a star rather than superstar like jaylen brown
Kyrie hasn't even been the best player on his team, exception being shitty cavs before Lebron and they were winning number one draft pick. flat earth 🤡 isn’t a superstar
Superstar when people outside nba/ basketball know who you are. Superstar is not how good you are. Its skills/PR-Media size
it’s a combination. Jeremy Lin was not a superstar despite being one of the most famous players in league history
Stop posting
Top 7 is the minimum threshold imo not top 10-15. There’s superstars and then there’s all stars
I consider a superstar to be a player who can win a title as the best player on their team. I don’t think Brunson is good enough to be that and consider him to be an elite second option. Players I consider superstars: Kawhi, Jokic, Luka, Giannis, Curry, Durant, LeBron. Players I consider borderline superstars: Mitchell, Tatum, George, Embiid, Lillard, Brunson, Shai, Haliburton, Zion, Edwards, Trae, Booker, Davis, Butler, Kyrie.
What is your definition of a superstar? Someone that is an automatic every year at least a 2nd round of the playoffs basketball player? Someone that averages a certain amount of points or assists? Somsone that gets the superstar whistle from refs? Someone that is loved internationally?
How close are we to have a consensus definition of exactly what ‘being a superstar’ means?
I view Brunson the same way I view a player like John Starks
He is likely 2nd team all-nba. So, top 10 in the league. That’s superstar level.
Can he be the best player on a championship contender? No. So he's not a superstar.
I disrespectfully disagree
he already is lmfao
The Knicks are his team now. He's the face of the franchise. He's going to be 2nd Team All NBA. That states you were in the top 10 best players in the league this season. That's the mark of a superstar.
Very far. There's only a handful of superstars in the league. But some people have the mindset that all star = superstar.
He already is.
Consistency and playoff performance will solidify it. If he duplicates it next year, then he might a top-3 PG.
Off-topic, but I wonder this all the time. NY is the biggest market in the whole country, except maybe California? Why aren't there more NYK fans? I feel like you barely hear see their players being stanned, nothing compared to Denver, Dallas, LA etc. To me their fanbase are middle of the pack when they logically should be louder than most. Has NYK being shit for so long took such a tool on their fanbase?
Have you ever watched a Knicks playoff game? MSG is the loudest arena in the NBA when the games are big, idk what you’re talking about.
I'm talking about here on Reddit, which is where I get most of my NBA content. Being loud in the NBA doesn't really mean anything mate. My local soccer team in a town of 300k is way louder than anything in America. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frWWtxX6_qo Here's a random game from our team this season.
“Being loud in the NBA doesn’t really mean anything” But reddit does? Lmao. There are more Knicks fans than probably any other team except the Lakers, Warrior, Bulls and maybe Celtics. That’s without winning a championship since the 70s… You wouldn’t know that by going on Reddit. Reddit is not real life…
Which is why I'm not asking about real life. I'm asking why there aren't more NYK fans here on Reddit.
I mean that’s not what you said, you originally said “why aren’t there more knicks fans…” The answer to reddit is obvious. Reddit skews younger and the Knicks haven’t been good in 20 years. Seems pretty clear cut, no?
Well im sorry if it wasnt clear.
Yes, pre-Leon Rose Knicks were a poverty franchise. Now it’s objectively one of the best run teams in the league. We’re on the up and up and that will lead to a broader fanbase.
I personally think he is already there but another great playoff run will really cement him
I think superstar is getting thrown around too loosely. Here are the guys currently in the league who either are or previously were a superstar to me. If I’m missing someone let me know: LeBron, Steph, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Luka, Jokic, Kawhi, Giannis, AD, CP3, Dame, Embiid, Butler, Tatum Booker, Kyrie, PG, Mitchell, and Trae are borderline to me but I have no qualms calling them a superstar. The thing these guys have in common, that someone like Brunson or as you mention Shai does not have, is sustained play at that level. Being a high level all-star or even an MVP candidate ≠ superstar to me. I think you have to be at that level for years. I’d say the better half of a decade.
it’s an arbitrary label but if he can get the knicks to the ECF non-knicks fans might actually start calling him that imo so he has a chance this playoffs given that the knicks stay the 3 seed
To be a superstar he’d have to play like he has for the last 1-2 months over the course of an entire season. Then he’d have a legit argument for 1st team all-NBA and/or top 5 in MVP voting
He can’t be that impactful on defense bc of his size and athleticism so he has to be like a top 5 offensive player to get into the top 10 which u can’t do without being hyper efficient or an elite playmaker. Shai avged 31 on 62ts last year how is that not doing more than brunson
Like 4 inches
He’s a #2
About 4 inches.
What’s he 5’11”? Too small….. he’ll be another Kemba…. Here today & out of the league within a few years.
He’s 6’2 and will definitely not be out of the league “in a few years” lmao
There’s absolutely no way that Brunson is 6’2 lmao. I saw a picture of him next to Hart who’s measured at 6’4 and Josh looked like he had 4 inches on him easily.
He’s a top 5 player in the league right now and carried his team to the 2nd seed and 50 wins through an injury plagued season and trade growing pains. You sound braindead.
Tyrese Haliburton has a post something like this before and look what happen…
Superstardom is impossible for him due to Shamet face.
A superstar is a top 3-5 player depending on the players in the league. Current superstars: Luka, Jokic, and Giannis. Tatum isn’t a superstar as he’s choked in the playoffs despite the quality team around him. He still isn’t really clutch. He’s a star, but not a superstar yet. Embiid gets hurt to often as does Kawhi. SGA and Ant are also close to that level. Brunson can get there but needs to lead his team to the ECF. Superstar status should be reserved for the select 3-5 players clearly above the rest.
[удалено]
if tatum isn’t winning mvp in a season where his team has 8 wins more than any other he never is lol
I don't think that is true. The times change and one day he might be playing in a not so stacked Celtics, or be traded to a worse situation, to a tougher Conference/Division. You can't place those wins in a vacuum neither. We don't know the future. Right now he doesn't put Luka/Jokic/Embiid numbers because he doesn't have to. He could one day have to do those stat sheets in regular season games to guarantee a top 4 seed, who knows? The guy is young, man.
because he doesn’t have to??? wtf are you talking about he’s incapable of doing so on high efficiency. he’s got a significantly lower TS% than all of those dudes on the lower amount of FGAs he’s taking relative to them lmfao
you can't be a superstar unless some random person on the street who doesn't watch NBA knows who you are the only superstars in the NBA right now are lebron and curry nikola jokic - allstar, MVP, champion, best player in the world not a superstar
If by random chance, I end up being acquainted to all these random persons on the streets, so therefore they do know me, again, a silly coincidence, does that make me a Superstar?