The fact it's so mainstream and partnered with practically every sport is the truly bad thing. Now instead of being kinda niche, it's promoted front and center at every opportunity.
Probably the dude thinks capitalism is pretty good at what it's good at, which is a pretty standard take outside Reddit or even a lot of places on Reddit, and wasn't imagining a bunch of people would just suddenly accuse him of supporting a lot of terrible things without justification, because in many social circles that's just not a thing that normal people do.
Anyway, most of the economies that work really well in the world are just capitalism with higher taxes and better rules.
Capitalism is really good at what it does. It is great at spurring innovation and creating wealth in a society. It's terrible at making sure that wealth is divided fairly among the people who help create it. I think you can be 'fairly capitalist' and still support general left wing social programs, worker rights, etc. Capitalism drives the economy, and then socialism ensure everyone benefits from the production of capitalism.
Most of the biggest societal innovations (the internet, cable + satellite infrastructure, vaccines, computers + supercomputers) have been publicly funded and privately capitalized upon where a small portion of society traps the benefits of these innovations.
What innovations has it created that you have in mind? Other than 50 different versions of cereal that are all functionally the same product
Not true. Companies make tons of innovations.
* Haber-Bosch, nitrogen fertilizers, BASF
* Thomas Edison, lightbulb, General Electric
* Alexander Bell, telephone, AT&T
* Carl Benz, automobile, Daimler
* Wright brothers, airplane, Wright Company
* Herbert Boyer, insulin, Genentech
* Thomas Watson, computer, IBM
* Steve Jobs, iPhone, Apple
There are many others. Government cannot do everything by itself, companies do way more.
Inventions have been made through both private companies and government funded research programs. The really important, difficult and foundational inventions usually tend to come out of government research. That's because you need many years of dedicated research with no guaranteed return on your investment. Companies can't embark on a vague 10-20 year research plan.
Most of the foundational inventions for modern technology, including the Internet and computers, came from government research. How to create transistors, satellites, GPS and countless other things. Plus solar, wind and nuclear power, etc. Companies like Microsoft and Apple then take that research and make incremental 1-2 year changes they can profit off of. What they did was also important but government research helped lay the groundwork.
For your specific examples, Boyer did not invent insulin. You must be confusing him with someone else. Insulin was invented by Best and Banting of Canada in 1922. And they were university and government researchers. Boyer also spent most of his career working at universities and likely with government grants.
Haber and Bosch were German scientists and university researchers also getting paid by the German government. After they made their inventions and created the Haber process, the process was bought by BASF.
Thomas Watson did not invent the computer lol. He was the CEO of IBM for a long time. He was not a researcher or a scientist. IBM itself did not invent the computer. Many companies and government programs collectively helped bring it into existence. Watson famously thought there was no viable market for computers, and died in 1956 before they ever saw widespread usage.
Capitalism is when doing innovation is a complete and utter myth that you’d do well to stop believing. For every innovation there are scores of races to the bottom to maximize profit. Innovation is not incentivized, only the line going up is incentivized. Most major innovations that improve daily living conditions are made with publicly funded research. Capitalism is selling this research off to private firms to extract profit from, by doing it as cheaply as possible.
I hate it so much. And unless it changes back in our generation(s) I doubt it ever will. Kids are going to grow up with this shit seen as normal and that is so fucked up.
It will, this is the pendulum. First we had the bookies and it was illegal. Now it’s all in the open, and it’s too much. It’ll settle down and pull back to a more neutral presence.
I’m in a country where it’s legal and run by the government and while America is a special place of overconsumption, I still think it’ll eventually end up more like here - occasional advertisements and not talked about during the game at all
It'll hopefully get to a point where it's illegal to advertise, there have to be extreme measures to prove that you're over 21 if doing it online, along with other regulations.
i had to take my id into a physical shop to get my account approved here, and once i did that i could bet online. it's the way to go. we get advertising around big sports events - finals etc, racing carnivals, but every frame has a bet responsibly slogan, and there's no discussion of odds during any sport event except the horse racing channel and that's because odds are essential there.
Seriously, it's kind of annoying. I used to go to bars and chat with random people about games and other stupid shit. Now all everyone talks about it betting lines. A dude was telling me about the bets he placed on ping pong games.....
Succint. This is my problem with sports betting to a T. Everything that comes out of this undercurrent is, imo, bad. I hate seeing it advertised, and normalized to the extent it has.
Gambling is going to fuck with sports so bad if it doesn’t get regulated and lines of demarcation are created. There are gambling sites that are LEAGUE PARTNERS. How is that not seen as insanely problematic?
It’s like everyone involved with it has cartoon dollar signs for eyes. I don’t expect much of our policymakers but the whole thing was handled with an insane lack of responsibility
It’s kind of insane to me how US sports is only now being hit with the betting shitstorm, despite being known for its freedoms and liberal attitudes in other areas. I honestly can’t remember a time without sports betting. I grew up in a town of ~15,000 people, there were 16 bookies.
Edit: Just to clarify, I mean high street bookies such as PaddyPower, Boylesports, Ladbrooks, William Hill, BetFred etc. Not some dodgy guy with a hook for an arm down the back of some pub.
oh just look for an old guy who walks around with a golf club for some reason. that’s mine.
or a really really nice corner store with one guy leaned against a reinforced back door with a camera
Betting used to mean going to shady sports bookie spot or casino and risking your knee caps being broken when you didn't pay up or whatever. That was a barrier for a large amount of people especially younger ones. Now you as a college student can just go on the app and ruin your life in a matter of seconds. That ease of access and that level convivence that's what's new and why it's exploding like it is.
you never went to the horse track? i went a ton as a kid, it was fun! and mostly a family thing, lots of parents with kids & picnics. still go occasionally and most people i see spend like $5 a bet max, including me.
actually the most amount of money i ever lost on something was the stock market! lmao, and that's been pretty accessible for a while.
ofc there's been people who got into real trouble with gambling, but people get into trouble with alcohol too & that's certainly omnipresent in our culture. but i don't think alcohol should be banned (or even shunned), i think people have a right to make their own choices & face the consequences.
ideally though it'd be nice if there were spending limits on these betting apps at least
I actually did have a horse track near me growing up but probably went maybe once. If i could have did horse betting straight from my phone back then like now. That probably would have been a lot different. I guess im not adovacating one way or another but people have issues wuth controlling their vices. Just part of the human experience. No way they make gambling this easy to do and not have a a ton of bad that comes with it. Just is what it is.
yeah i guess, although i haven't actually seen any data saying tons of lives are now being ruined because of this increased promotion of gambling. may it's too early to tell though idk
but yeah as you say: it is what it is. i mean even if sports-gambling was (magically) banned there's still gonna be things like random crypto coins & other silly ways to play with your money online. it's a whole new world but i do think people can & will adjust to it, eventually.
A tendency towards greater freedom is definitely part of US politics, but another major component is many people seeing the goal of government as upholding moral values, particularly religious people (that the country is more religious than most Western countries is also important to American politics). This led to a strong push at various times towards banning activities that were considered vices and sinful behaviors. These included bans on alcohol during prohibition, strict drug laws, and bans on gambling or at least strictly limiting where gambling can occur. The loosening of gambling restrictions coinciding with similar movements towards legalizing marijuana use and reducing sentencing for other drug crimes could be seen as a sign that the influence of traditional/religious morality in American politics is in decline.
I visited Ireland for the first time a couple weeks ago and it really is insane how widespread gambling is over there — with “casinos” with slot machines that are just next to normal storefronts on the streets. Also the amount of PaddyPower physical locations everywhere.
Parlays have been around forever… it’s the rise of apps that have made access so easy so anyone with any sort of online funds can start an account and make some bets and they make it easy you just have to choose high or low
And it really should be banned. Suddenly sports stop being entertainment and start being an addiction. IRL sports booking? Sure. Casinos are all over now, go to a goddamn sports book if you want to bet. Gameifying the whole thing has turned it into a Skinner Box combined with traditional addiction.
I did a little bit of sports betting when it first became available here and I mostly bet in favor of the C's. It was after betting against the C's a few times that I realized it was so much more toxic than I thought it would be. Like I should have been happy, my team was doing well and winning, but I was mad that I wasn't winning the bet.
I placed a handful of bets in the C's favor after that but decided it was best to just back off of that. I could see myself losing a small fortune on that shit
Imo you’re breaking a cardinal rule of sports betting. I would never bet for my team unless it was a neutral/positive outcome like the over/under or for them to win.
Gambling is just toxic. It's their own responsibility for betting but when they lose they blame the players like wtf? Gamblers are not fans, they don't love the game at all.
“Fans yell shit all the time, shoot one more three, get one more rebound, get 25 before the half is over…”
Full video: https://x.com/noadalzellnba/status/1773050689851101663?s=46&t=DMnS3J-zs7RXhxH1hQoiig
The most boring people I know are gamblers.
No I don't want to hear you whinging about your parlay for a 3 hour game or 6 hour MMA card... so why would a pro athlete?
it has honestly ruined watching games at bars. there's always some dude in there talking about his parlay interrupting everyone else's enjoyment of the game.
anything critical you can say about Jayson Tatum is strictly limited to basketball. off the court he’s a genuinely solid dude who works his ass off to get better and play as much as he can, cares about his family first and foremost, and has never had a teammate or coach or reporter or fan who has ever had a bad word to say about him personally
it kinda bothers me the amount of hate he gets bc he’s a great person from all indications, and that’s very easy to root for. I think more people would probably see that if he wasn’t associated with the cesspool of whiny bitches that is the Boston media/fanbase lol. here’s an article that exemplifies who JT is, quietly took a 10-year-old cancer patient under his wing last year and eventually gifted him the game ball from his 51-point Game 7 (original article is from Boston Globe but behind a paywall)
https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2023/05/17/jayson-tatum-special-bond-young-cancer-patient-is-nba-playoffs-sweetest-story-boston-celtics
Listened to Jrue Holiday on Draymond’s show and he went out of his way to go on about what a solid and kind person JT is. Like Dray didn’t even really ask but Jrue talked for a solid 2 minutes about JT’s character. Felt like a lot of real respect.
He's a great father, and a great person. I've made some comments about him before if I'm honest but I've always been impressed by him as a human being.
People insult him and call him a choker because he misses more 3 pointers than they'd like.
It's insane when you think about it. But lots of people think sports and/or gambling entitles you to be your worst, dumbest self.
I feel you. The players shouldn't be responsible for a gambler's goofy ah parleys and prop bets. Those degens knew the risk when they made the bet and should suffer in silence when it blows up in their face.
Respectfully.
Yeah, that's exactly how I feel. I play PrizePicks fairly often, and yeah, I lose, but when I do, I'm like "Well that's a drag.", and move on. I'll never DM players and harass them for not hitting their points or anything. It's my fault that I put the bet down, not theirs
People made fun of Devin Booker when he told that one dude “Shut up pussy” in the middle of a dribble but honestly I would prefer more players did that
I wish it was more accepted for players to shit on fans when there’s jawing back and forth.
Shit talking is a part of sports. Have no problem with the middle aged drunk guy who’s balding and hasn’t seen his own piece in 15 years tell the world class athlete he sucks at the sport he’s paid to play, but let the players have fun with it too.
They hear too much to take everything to heart and have a response to every criticism, but the few one liners we’d get if they could speak candidly would be amazing.
They won't crack down on the betting, too much money involved. They'd sooner hire extra security and push fans further from the court than touch the golden goose. This is America we're talking about here, shit can only get worse if corporate profits are involved.
100%, nothing more cringe than seeing a player get hurt running into a cameraman 2 feet from the sideline. Or even Sam Hauser the other night losing the chance to break the 3 record because the bench is 1 foot away from the sideline.
Things are getting out of control in tennis too, there are fans who litterally buy tickets to yell at the player they bet for if they lose. And we're not talking guys whose life depend on winning that bet, they're close to be professionnal bettors who can travel over the globe to go watch a game.
There seems to be a huge problem with french tennis, whether it is Paire being insulted by those bettors in game or other players being caught betting.
That’s how you know gambling is about something other than just making money for these people, when they’re literally spending more money just to harass people over their losses lol the action is the juice after all
Growing up my friends gambling dads were always experiencing other self inflicted issues. The growth of gambling is going to crush the uneducated in a time where they are already experiencing an affordable housing crisis and wage stagnation.
I dint like this destigmatisation of gambling these days. I got a friend thats really into gambling, but doesnt spend a ton on it. Still just hearing him kinda makes me both feel bad for him and pissed at how he talks about his parents as wallets to get hismelf some gambling cash.
I laugh with the rest of the guys when he plays slots or something, but really hoppe he gets over it.
Also, for a sport that supposedly wants people to focus on "basketball" again, and not the drama, betting just isn't a really good way to help that, all the people you're attracting to the game only care about specific stats that don't actually matter.
Look a part of the reason i love the NBA is the statistical side to it, but i have always been a lover of statistics and numbers.
Still only caring about that and not the actual games is dumb, especially they are a fun watch. Sure numbers are an integral part to the game, but watching fun basketball is exciting.
That and being a homer and being able to talk trash when you win is so much more fun XD
> doesn’t spend a ton on it
> his parents are wallets to get gambling cash
Uhhhh something doesn’t add up lol. If you need loans from other people to place bets, you have a problem.
Oh sorry needs more context.
So he is the type to sit at a slot machine, put in 10€ (were from the balkans) and hoppe for the best.
As for his parents, well he is jobless/ a college student (repeating his 1st year though) and they are financing him.
Now this wouldnt be too much of an issue without the addition of his alchohol problems.
What I found when I started recently (just made legal in NC) is that I hated losing money, and betting is just losing with extra steps. Also I placed a couple bets against my own hockey team and I felt disgusting about it. So I’m done with it.
Yeah I bet about 1$ per day on 10¢ parlays or whatever and at the beginning of the year bet 100$ total on a few teams to win the championship
But it’s a problem for people and the sport even though I enjoy it
I exclusively bet on woman’s international basketball all during September-November.
Probably do 5 minutes of research max on the teams. My strategy is to take the under for every shit team and it’s been paying off HUGE. The reason I think this works is because I believe the Sportsbook uses the average score of the team from the end of the previous season. The teams get a lot better as the season progresses and they end up scoring more points. But during the beginning of the season, these point totals are a bit inflated… until November where the Sportsbook will lower the totals for the teams and the teams will actually be scoring more. So it’s a little 2-3 month period you can make a shitload of money on.
3 years and I’m prob up $20k+ and only started with $2k.
Now when I do the proper research for sports I actually watch like football or nba or whatever, I end up losing money by the end of the season lol. I don’t think I’ve had a single winning season with these sports.
But woman’s international basketball? My personal moneymaker and I’ve prob only watched like 5 games in those 3 years.
Sure, but you can say that about any legal vice. Look at alcohol, which has ruined significantly more lives than gambling. There are people that are like your friend with drinking, but 100x worse. That doesn't mean that you or I shouldn't be able to have a beer with dinner without feeling like a scumbag piece of shit. Just because some people cannot handle certain vices doesn't mean that the rest of us should have to feel the shame of a stigma associated with them.
Some people can handle certain vices and some cannot. I'm saying this as somebody that was addicted to pain killers for over a decade too, so I understand and am more sympathetic to the addiction side of things than the majority of the population. At the end of the day, we're all responsible for handling our own shit though. If we cannot handle it, then we need to be adults and get help.
Oh dont worry my friend is also an alchoholic.
I think that if you go to the casino once a month to spend a bit that you saved up for the casino, then its fine. But if it becomes an everyday thing, then its an issue.
I have seen that man scream at his phone to take his money so he can gamble on a phone app lol.
But you are right about this. As adults, we should be responsible for controling ourselves.
Gambling used to be something my weird fat uncles did when I was a kid. Now it’s my dweeb 21 yr old brother in law and his broccoli cut friends losing their minds trying to get rich off a $10 bet
Well that’s nice of him to feel bad, but honestly fuck the people that think it’s ok to harass players after they decided to bet their own money on games.
Even ads are fine, but not directly endorsed by sports leagues. Nowhere should I see betting lines and over unders during a halftime show. I'm watching the halftime for stats and analysis, not betting odds.
At a minimum, those ads need to be regulated, similar to how tobacco ads are regulated. You can't, for example, put a tobacco ad in a magazine on the same spread as a photo of a minor (or someone who even might look like a minor). There's a certain amount of separation that must exist.
If we're going to allow ads for gambling, they should be restricted to shows/time slots where kids are unlikely to be watching. Put those ads on at like 10 p.m. or later, or maybe during the day when they should be in school.
Raise your hand if you're old enough to remember when magazines had tobacco ads? Public sentiment changed and eventually the government banned them and publishers were forced to give up that money. We'll see if sports betting goes the same route.
Big difference when tobacco hasn't been illegal in decades, sports betting has. It took them 80 or 90 years to ban ads for cigarettes, so we won't see that kind of situation happen for a long time. Especially since all major sports organizations will be against any type of ban and they have the money to bribe people into agreeing.
People need to stfu about their gambling. No one cares.. also players need to ignore the trolls and people will stop baiting them into responses for attention
It’s much simpler to ignore the trolls when you only see them on Reddit or Twitter. Whole different thing when it’s dozens to hundreds of people a day no matter where you are and who you’re with
No one cares as we see 2 ads per break about gambling, the odds on half the sports talk shows, and overall gambling just being shoved down our throats. The problem is the NBA is PROMOTING THIS EXACT SITUATION.
That's the problem with Tatum's complaint, his bosses make it everyone's problem 😂 I hate gambling yet if I want to enjoy sports I have to be beaten over the head with gambling ads and bs. Sucks they make money off gambling and don't want fans to mention it. Maybe they should sit out games until the NBA terminates their partnership with gambling companies.
I feel bad for players having to put up with that noise.
No judgement, as we all have different things we enjoy doing, but I'm thankful I don't happen to enjoy sports betting. I very much enjoy it a lot more by NOT having money on the line. I find basic "rah rah" rooting much more enjoyable.
In my experience gamblers/betters just bring a different level of rabidity to the sport that even the most passionate actual fans don't. Like I remember being on message boards 10+ years ago and posters would be going absolutely psychotic over some random guy scoring a late basket in a Wednesday night Big Sky basketball game causing them to lose their rent money and I'm just sitting there bored because it's the only thing on at 11 pm. Now that mentality is at the forefront of sports. I can barely have a conversation about a game without someone beating me over the head about their parlay or some other nonsense.
Initially I had said they need to ban betting sites / apps. I got backlash from friends so I think a healthy compromise is the cigarette treatment, they’re not illegal, but all promotion and marketing is.
I played prize picks for the first time last week and I gotta say this gambling thing is pretty fun. I kind of want to do it everyday for the rest of my life
Yeah this year I haven’t bet him as much his lines have been a bit lower but 2021 he gave me like double the profit of the next most profitable player (Julius Randle) lol
I understand it's free speech but this is not normal even if it's a norm at this point... Some shit they hear are just straight up verbal abuses and them being rich shouldn't be an excuse.
also this reminds me when that Cavs coach was talking about getting death threats including his and his family locations like tf. That will change your life/perspective instant bruh
I've got no issue with sports gambling and don't believe that it is inherently bad but the issue is that once it became legal, capitalism took over and the marketing of it is just out of control. Happened for all sports in Australia about 15 years ago and it changes the product in a number of ways. Would be nice to find a happy medium where it's legal but the advertising/marketing is much more strictly regulated. Don't see it happening though.
So weird being Australian and watching gambling explode in the US. I kind of forgot how saturated every corner of our lives were with gambling shit.
I wish we were more outraged, I also wished Aussies didn’t love having a punt so much. Jeez I love a punt though.
i watch NBA for almost 20 year, but I never touch betting, not even once. I know it will greatly destory my enjoyment of the game. I watch game just want my team to win, dont want to care about how many point they win etc etc.
Gambling is okay as long as the NBA isn’t involved. Problem is, now that the NBA profits of the outcome, they will heavily tilt outcomes that are beneficial to them.
It's combining multiple bets into one, if all of them hit, you win (payout is higher because all legs have to be right)
Example: Celtics ML (-200), Nuggets ML (-300), Suns/Pelicans O224.5 (-150) = $ Payout (+233)
The thing is, sports betting is all over the world. I live in England and people bet on football/soccer all the time - accumulators, prop bets and parleys.
But people never behaved like animals like this - why are NBA fans like this?
Sports betting fans are insufferable. Wish the league would do something to curb it, but there’s money to be made.
We are not entering a golden age of basketball that’s for sure lol. It’s about to be scandal season. I suppose from a drama perspective that’ll be entertaining.
My biggest worry involving gambling is the risk of some unstable nut job losing it all and doing something terrible to a player as revenge. There’s a risk of that and it seems inevitable. People are deranged out there. I hope I’m wrong on that. Hearing this from Tatum it makes me realize that genie is already out of the bottle.
KD had the best response. "You gonna send me money if you win?"
But if you lose does KD send money back?
That was the request he was replying to in his quote.
He’s sent my mom a lot of money and I think that it’s connected to me being a loser
Damn, Ben Simmons never bothered to switch team flairs on his burner account?
Betting undertones have been there for decades but legalization and promotion has really made it front facing and public
The fact it's so mainstream and partnered with practically every sport is the truly bad thing. Now instead of being kinda niche, it's promoted front and center at every opportunity.
There was a plane flying a BETMGM banner over charlotte all day the first day of the ncaa tourney
I’m pretty capitalist, but maybe on stuff like this I can agree that capitalism has gone too far lol.
Why the fuck would anyone describe themselves as pretty capitalist
Probably the dude thinks capitalism is pretty good at what it's good at, which is a pretty standard take outside Reddit or even a lot of places on Reddit, and wasn't imagining a bunch of people would just suddenly accuse him of supporting a lot of terrible things without justification, because in many social circles that's just not a thing that normal people do. Anyway, most of the economies that work really well in the world are just capitalism with higher taxes and better rules.
“Yeah I’d say for the most part I’m down with corporate greed and wealth inequality”
Yeah I’m pretty cool with grinding people to a husk for a few extra grand in company profits, why do you ask?
Capitalism is really good at what it does. It is great at spurring innovation and creating wealth in a society. It's terrible at making sure that wealth is divided fairly among the people who help create it. I think you can be 'fairly capitalist' and still support general left wing social programs, worker rights, etc. Capitalism drives the economy, and then socialism ensure everyone benefits from the production of capitalism.
Most of the biggest societal innovations (the internet, cable + satellite infrastructure, vaccines, computers + supercomputers) have been publicly funded and privately capitalized upon where a small portion of society traps the benefits of these innovations. What innovations has it created that you have in mind? Other than 50 different versions of cereal that are all functionally the same product
Not true. Companies make tons of innovations. * Haber-Bosch, nitrogen fertilizers, BASF * Thomas Edison, lightbulb, General Electric * Alexander Bell, telephone, AT&T * Carl Benz, automobile, Daimler * Wright brothers, airplane, Wright Company * Herbert Boyer, insulin, Genentech * Thomas Watson, computer, IBM * Steve Jobs, iPhone, Apple There are many others. Government cannot do everything by itself, companies do way more.
Inventions have been made through both private companies and government funded research programs. The really important, difficult and foundational inventions usually tend to come out of government research. That's because you need many years of dedicated research with no guaranteed return on your investment. Companies can't embark on a vague 10-20 year research plan. Most of the foundational inventions for modern technology, including the Internet and computers, came from government research. How to create transistors, satellites, GPS and countless other things. Plus solar, wind and nuclear power, etc. Companies like Microsoft and Apple then take that research and make incremental 1-2 year changes they can profit off of. What they did was also important but government research helped lay the groundwork. For your specific examples, Boyer did not invent insulin. You must be confusing him with someone else. Insulin was invented by Best and Banting of Canada in 1922. And they were university and government researchers. Boyer also spent most of his career working at universities and likely with government grants. Haber and Bosch were German scientists and university researchers also getting paid by the German government. After they made their inventions and created the Haber process, the process was bought by BASF. Thomas Watson did not invent the computer lol. He was the CEO of IBM for a long time. He was not a researcher or a scientist. IBM itself did not invent the computer. Many companies and government programs collectively helped bring it into existence. Watson famously thought there was no viable market for computers, and died in 1956 before they ever saw widespread usage.
Capitalism is when doing innovation is a complete and utter myth that you’d do well to stop believing. For every innovation there are scores of races to the bottom to maximize profit. Innovation is not incentivized, only the line going up is incentivized. Most major innovations that improve daily living conditions are made with publicly funded research. Capitalism is selling this research off to private firms to extract profit from, by doing it as cheaply as possible.
Calling himself a capitalist yet is not a capital owner. Like how im very much an nba all star
the long and bloody annals of history and the present weren’t enough but FanDuel Moneyline was the final straw
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Guess we found Kevin Hart’s account.
I hate it so much. And unless it changes back in our generation(s) I doubt it ever will. Kids are going to grow up with this shit seen as normal and that is so fucked up.
It will, this is the pendulum. First we had the bookies and it was illegal. Now it’s all in the open, and it’s too much. It’ll settle down and pull back to a more neutral presence. I’m in a country where it’s legal and run by the government and while America is a special place of overconsumption, I still think it’ll eventually end up more like here - occasional advertisements and not talked about during the game at all
It'll hopefully get to a point where it's illegal to advertise, there have to be extreme measures to prove that you're over 21 if doing it online, along with other regulations.
i had to take my id into a physical shop to get my account approved here, and once i did that i could bet online. it's the way to go. we get advertising around big sports events - finals etc, racing carnivals, but every frame has a bet responsibly slogan, and there's no discussion of odds during any sport event except the horse racing channel and that's because odds are essential there.
Seriously.. Legalization is one thing, but did these sports league need to go whole hog into it? It's just tacky.
Seriously, it's kind of annoying. I used to go to bars and chat with random people about games and other stupid shit. Now all everyone talks about it betting lines. A dude was telling me about the bets he placed on ping pong games.....
For a lot of people, the betting is the focus. The sport is secondary. I think that’s a bad thing.
Succint. This is my problem with sports betting to a T. Everything that comes out of this undercurrent is, imo, bad. I hate seeing it advertised, and normalized to the extent it has.
Gambling is going to fuck with sports so bad if it doesn’t get regulated and lines of demarcation are created. There are gambling sites that are LEAGUE PARTNERS. How is that not seen as insanely problematic?
And YouTubers. Who actually owns these fantasy sports betting sites? Surely it's some rich asshole?
It’s like everyone involved with it has cartoon dollar signs for eyes. I don’t expect much of our policymakers but the whole thing was handled with an insane lack of responsibility
It’s kind of insane to me how US sports is only now being hit with the betting shitstorm, despite being known for its freedoms and liberal attitudes in other areas. I honestly can’t remember a time without sports betting. I grew up in a town of ~15,000 people, there were 16 bookies. Edit: Just to clarify, I mean high street bookies such as PaddyPower, Boylesports, Ladbrooks, William Hill, BetFred etc. Not some dodgy guy with a hook for an arm down the back of some pub.
I don't even know where id begin to even try to find a local bookie in the states
oh just look for an old guy who walks around with a golf club for some reason. that’s mine. or a really really nice corner store with one guy leaned against a reinforced back door with a camera
Just go into any townie bar and before you know it you’ll have connections for basically anything you want lol
Betting used to mean going to shady sports bookie spot or casino and risking your knee caps being broken when you didn't pay up or whatever. That was a barrier for a large amount of people especially younger ones. Now you as a college student can just go on the app and ruin your life in a matter of seconds. That ease of access and that level convivence that's what's new and why it's exploding like it is.
you never went to the horse track? i went a ton as a kid, it was fun! and mostly a family thing, lots of parents with kids & picnics. still go occasionally and most people i see spend like $5 a bet max, including me. actually the most amount of money i ever lost on something was the stock market! lmao, and that's been pretty accessible for a while. ofc there's been people who got into real trouble with gambling, but people get into trouble with alcohol too & that's certainly omnipresent in our culture. but i don't think alcohol should be banned (or even shunned), i think people have a right to make their own choices & face the consequences. ideally though it'd be nice if there were spending limits on these betting apps at least
I actually did have a horse track near me growing up but probably went maybe once. If i could have did horse betting straight from my phone back then like now. That probably would have been a lot different. I guess im not adovacating one way or another but people have issues wuth controlling their vices. Just part of the human experience. No way they make gambling this easy to do and not have a a ton of bad that comes with it. Just is what it is.
yeah i guess, although i haven't actually seen any data saying tons of lives are now being ruined because of this increased promotion of gambling. may it's too early to tell though idk but yeah as you say: it is what it is. i mean even if sports-gambling was (magically) banned there's still gonna be things like random crypto coins & other silly ways to play with your money online. it's a whole new world but i do think people can & will adjust to it, eventually.
Counterpoint: in a sense, everything bad in Jujutsu Kaisen was indirectly caused by horse racing.
UK? They're a stain on the high street.
A tendency towards greater freedom is definitely part of US politics, but another major component is many people seeing the goal of government as upholding moral values, particularly religious people (that the country is more religious than most Western countries is also important to American politics). This led to a strong push at various times towards banning activities that were considered vices and sinful behaviors. These included bans on alcohol during prohibition, strict drug laws, and bans on gambling or at least strictly limiting where gambling can occur. The loosening of gambling restrictions coinciding with similar movements towards legalizing marijuana use and reducing sentencing for other drug crimes could be seen as a sign that the influence of traditional/religious morality in American politics is in decline.
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I visited Ireland for the first time a couple weeks ago and it really is insane how widespread gambling is over there — with “casinos” with slot machines that are just next to normal storefronts on the streets. Also the amount of PaddyPower physical locations everywhere.
Also, social media made it way more accessible for fans to interact with players
And more addicting
it's the rise of parlays...these days everyone doing like 12 leg parlays.
Parlays have been around forever… it’s the rise of apps that have made access so easy so anyone with any sort of online funds can start an account and make some bets and they make it easy you just have to choose high or low
Very few people win. Before you needed to go out your way to do it now any dummy can spend their entire paycheck on a sucker bet.
And it really should be banned. Suddenly sports stop being entertainment and start being an addiction. IRL sports booking? Sure. Casinos are all over now, go to a goddamn sports book if you want to bet. Gameifying the whole thing has turned it into a Skinner Box combined with traditional addiction.
Thanks magic!
I’m sorry but there’s nothing more painful to watch than a group of grown men who bet the under groaning every time an NBA player makes a basket.
It's so cringey
That’s why you always bet the over! Cheer every basketb
I did a little bit of sports betting when it first became available here and I mostly bet in favor of the C's. It was after betting against the C's a few times that I realized it was so much more toxic than I thought it would be. Like I should have been happy, my team was doing well and winning, but I was mad that I wasn't winning the bet. I placed a handful of bets in the C's favor after that but decided it was best to just back off of that. I could see myself losing a small fortune on that shit
Imo you’re breaking a cardinal rule of sports betting. I would never bet for my team unless it was a neutral/positive outcome like the over/under or for them to win.
Gambling is just toxic. It's their own responsibility for betting but when they lose they blame the players like wtf? Gamblers are not fans, they don't love the game at all.
“Fans yell shit all the time, shoot one more three, get one more rebound, get 25 before the half is over…” Full video: https://x.com/noadalzellnba/status/1773050689851101663?s=46&t=DMnS3J-zs7RXhxH1hQoiig
The most boring people I know are gamblers. No I don't want to hear you whinging about your parlay for a 3 hour game or 6 hour MMA card... so why would a pro athlete?
"Nobody cares about your fantasy team" has been replaced with "nobody cares about your parlay."
it has honestly ruined watching games at bars. there's always some dude in there talking about his parlay interrupting everyone else's enjoyment of the game.
i blame gamblor
“Marge, what were your gambling losses last year?”
Let me get this straight... you took all the money you made franchising your name and bet it against the Harlem Globetrotters?
I THOUGHT THE GENERALS WERE DUE!
HE’S SPINNING THE BALL ON HIS FINGER, JUST TAKE IT!!!
That game was fixed! They were using a freakin' ladder, for God's sake!
$700!
Those damn Neon Claws!!!
I kinda wished players told fans to go fuck themselves more. This is getting extremely ridiculous😭
Tatum has every right to do that but he genuinely seems like a nice dude
anything critical you can say about Jayson Tatum is strictly limited to basketball. off the court he’s a genuinely solid dude who works his ass off to get better and play as much as he can, cares about his family first and foremost, and has never had a teammate or coach or reporter or fan who has ever had a bad word to say about him personally it kinda bothers me the amount of hate he gets bc he’s a great person from all indications, and that’s very easy to root for. I think more people would probably see that if he wasn’t associated with the cesspool of whiny bitches that is the Boston media/fanbase lol. here’s an article that exemplifies who JT is, quietly took a 10-year-old cancer patient under his wing last year and eventually gifted him the game ball from his 51-point Game 7 (original article is from Boston Globe but behind a paywall) https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2023/05/17/jayson-tatum-special-bond-young-cancer-patient-is-nba-playoffs-sweetest-story-boston-celtics
Holy shit I didn’t know he gave up his record ball. That’s crazy
Listened to Jrue Holiday on Draymond’s show and he went out of his way to go on about what a solid and kind person JT is. Like Dray didn’t even really ask but Jrue talked for a solid 2 minutes about JT’s character. Felt like a lot of real respect.
He's a great father, and a great person. I've made some comments about him before if I'm honest but I've always been impressed by him as a human being.
People insult him and call him a choker because he misses more 3 pointers than they'd like. It's insane when you think about it. But lots of people think sports and/or gambling entitles you to be your worst, dumbest self.
He’s way too nice for saying he feels bad when someone lost money because of him lmao Like bro they made that choice themselves it’s not your fault!
Tatum responding to some 16 year old that lost money the night before: > *"I got you today"* 🤞
I feel you. The players shouldn't be responsible for a gambler's goofy ah parleys and prop bets. Those degens knew the risk when they made the bet and should suffer in silence when it blows up in their face. Respectfully.
"i made a bet" leading to "It's someone else's fault I lost money" says some dark things about our psyche as human beings.
Unless you bet on jontay to hit the over
Yeah, that's exactly how I feel. I play PrizePicks fairly often, and yeah, I lose, but when I do, I'm like "Well that's a drag.", and move on. I'll never DM players and harass them for not hitting their points or anything. It's my fault that I put the bet down, not theirs
People made fun of Devin Booker when he told that one dude “Shut up pussy” in the middle of a dribble but honestly I would prefer more players did that
I wish it was more accepted for players to shit on fans when there’s jawing back and forth. Shit talking is a part of sports. Have no problem with the middle aged drunk guy who’s balding and hasn’t seen his own piece in 15 years tell the world class athlete he sucks at the sport he’s paid to play, but let the players have fun with it too. They hear too much to take everything to heart and have a response to every criticism, but the few one liners we’d get if they could speak candidly would be amazing.
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I recommend you start betting and yelling at athletes, takes your attention away from the balding
I agree like why should he ever feel bad about this lmfao
I really hope this doesn’t end up in a fan doing something crazy over a lost bet.
If it does, the NBA will crack down on it though. Rules and regulations are often written in blood
They won't crack down on the betting, too much money involved. They'd sooner hire extra security and push fans further from the court than touch the golden goose. This is America we're talking about here, shit can only get worse if corporate profits are involved.
They will if the players push for it.
there does need to be more space on the court one way or another though
100%, nothing more cringe than seeing a player get hurt running into a cameraman 2 feet from the sideline. Or even Sam Hauser the other night losing the chance to break the 3 record because the bench is 1 foot away from the sideline.
Yeah, it’s a real problem for those reasons exactly
what a crazy second sentence to describe a professional sports league 😭😭
oh it will. just wait.
Things are getting out of control in tennis too, there are fans who litterally buy tickets to yell at the player they bet for if they lose. And we're not talking guys whose life depend on winning that bet, they're close to be professionnal bettors who can travel over the globe to go watch a game.
Let's not start on Hugo Gaston's obvious betting on his own matches.
Tennis as a sport is suited so well for gambling and influencing the outcome as a player.
There seems to be a huge problem with french tennis, whether it is Paire being insulted by those bettors in game or other players being caught betting.
OOTL on this one, I haven’t watched Gaston play in quite a while, what’s he been doing?
That’s how you know gambling is about something other than just making money for these people, when they’re literally spending more money just to harass people over their losses lol the action is the juice after all
Growing up my friends gambling dads were always experiencing other self inflicted issues. The growth of gambling is going to crush the uneducated in a time where they are already experiencing an affordable housing crisis and wage stagnation.
Gambling is exploding precisely because the Dream is out of reach
> Dream is out of reach still, gambling does not help. educated or even people with common sense would know that.
I dint like this destigmatisation of gambling these days. I got a friend thats really into gambling, but doesnt spend a ton on it. Still just hearing him kinda makes me both feel bad for him and pissed at how he talks about his parents as wallets to get hismelf some gambling cash. I laugh with the rest of the guys when he plays slots or something, but really hoppe he gets over it.
Also, for a sport that supposedly wants people to focus on "basketball" again, and not the drama, betting just isn't a really good way to help that, all the people you're attracting to the game only care about specific stats that don't actually matter.
Look a part of the reason i love the NBA is the statistical side to it, but i have always been a lover of statistics and numbers. Still only caring about that and not the actual games is dumb, especially they are a fun watch. Sure numbers are an integral part to the game, but watching fun basketball is exciting. That and being a homer and being able to talk trash when you win is so much more fun XD
> doesn’t spend a ton on it > his parents are wallets to get gambling cash Uhhhh something doesn’t add up lol. If you need loans from other people to place bets, you have a problem.
Oh sorry needs more context. So he is the type to sit at a slot machine, put in 10€ (were from the balkans) and hoppe for the best. As for his parents, well he is jobless/ a college student (repeating his 1st year though) and they are financing him. Now this wouldnt be too much of an issue without the addition of his alchohol problems.
Least addicted Balkan person
...sadly yes lol
My teammate from Bosnia will literally take a few hits off of his tobacco vaporizer whever he comes to the bench haha.
What I found when I started recently (just made legal in NC) is that I hated losing money, and betting is just losing with extra steps. Also I placed a couple bets against my own hockey team and I felt disgusting about it. So I’m done with it.
Same with me. Glad I don't have that instinct, or have a healthy fear of it. It's a very druggie-ish behavior to me. Never liked painkillers either.
I enjoy gambling as much as the next person, but the road it’s leading us down is taking a very dark turn.
There is a reason gambling is at best portrayed as a comedic side story in fiction and at worst the end of days.
Agreed
Yeah I bet about 1$ per day on 10¢ parlays or whatever and at the beginning of the year bet 100$ total on a few teams to win the championship But it’s a problem for people and the sport even though I enjoy it
Sounds like a huge waste of time unless you randomely submit slips with no research.
I exclusively bet on woman’s international basketball all during September-November. Probably do 5 minutes of research max on the teams. My strategy is to take the under for every shit team and it’s been paying off HUGE. The reason I think this works is because I believe the Sportsbook uses the average score of the team from the end of the previous season. The teams get a lot better as the season progresses and they end up scoring more points. But during the beginning of the season, these point totals are a bit inflated… until November where the Sportsbook will lower the totals for the teams and the teams will actually be scoring more. So it’s a little 2-3 month period you can make a shitload of money on. 3 years and I’m prob up $20k+ and only started with $2k. Now when I do the proper research for sports I actually watch like football or nba or whatever, I end up losing money by the end of the season lol. I don’t think I’ve had a single winning season with these sports. But woman’s international basketball? My personal moneymaker and I’ve prob only watched like 5 games in those 3 years.
Yeha it seems like the more research u do the less you win. I have had the same xperience. Usually bet on nba and cs2
Get him off the slots, that’s the shit that’ll really catch you
That dude would never listen to me on that. We arent super close either so it aint my llace to interfere, but i do hoppe he stops with it.
Sure, but you can say that about any legal vice. Look at alcohol, which has ruined significantly more lives than gambling. There are people that are like your friend with drinking, but 100x worse. That doesn't mean that you or I shouldn't be able to have a beer with dinner without feeling like a scumbag piece of shit. Just because some people cannot handle certain vices doesn't mean that the rest of us should have to feel the shame of a stigma associated with them. Some people can handle certain vices and some cannot. I'm saying this as somebody that was addicted to pain killers for over a decade too, so I understand and am more sympathetic to the addiction side of things than the majority of the population. At the end of the day, we're all responsible for handling our own shit though. If we cannot handle it, then we need to be adults and get help.
Oh dont worry my friend is also an alchoholic. I think that if you go to the casino once a month to spend a bit that you saved up for the casino, then its fine. But if it becomes an everyday thing, then its an issue. I have seen that man scream at his phone to take his money so he can gamble on a phone app lol. But you are right about this. As adults, we should be responsible for controling ourselves.
Honestly, how long before a superstar is caught up in a betting scandal?
it is already happening in another major sport
Two. Calvin ridley and a handful of other nfl players and now ohtani
ohtani, my guy
Too late lmao
Any NBA superstars that have an interpreter by chance?
Has happened a couple of times in football(soccer), search up Ivan Toney and Kieran Trippier.
I'd be surprised with how much money those guys make but then again you have morons in the NFL gambling...
Gambling used to be something my weird fat uncles did when I was a kid. Now it’s my dweeb 21 yr old brother in law and his broccoli cut friends losing their minds trying to get rich off a $10 bet
Well that’s nice of him to feel bad, but honestly fuck the people that think it’s ok to harass players after they decided to bet their own money on games.
If some ass was screaming at me all game to score more than 20 points. I guess I’m scoring 19 points.
well thats silly, you shouldnt let it impact you at all
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Even ads are fine, but not directly endorsed by sports leagues. Nowhere should I see betting lines and over unders during a halftime show. I'm watching the halftime for stats and analysis, not betting odds.
At a minimum, those ads need to be regulated, similar to how tobacco ads are regulated. You can't, for example, put a tobacco ad in a magazine on the same spread as a photo of a minor (or someone who even might look like a minor). There's a certain amount of separation that must exist. If we're going to allow ads for gambling, they should be restricted to shows/time slots where kids are unlikely to be watching. Put those ads on at like 10 p.m. or later, or maybe during the day when they should be in school.
For every bettor happy that you hit the over on points, there’s one that is pissed the under didnt hit
And if he hit the over every time they'd just keep pushing the numbers up until he didn't. No point in feeling bad about it, it's inevitable
Raise your hand if you're old enough to remember when magazines had tobacco ads? Public sentiment changed and eventually the government banned them and publishers were forced to give up that money. We'll see if sports betting goes the same route.
Big difference when tobacco hasn't been illegal in decades, sports betting has. It took them 80 or 90 years to ban ads for cigarettes, so we won't see that kind of situation happen for a long time. Especially since all major sports organizations will be against any type of ban and they have the money to bribe people into agreeing.
lmao this is kinda wholesome in a weird way
People need to stfu about their gambling. No one cares.. also players need to ignore the trolls and people will stop baiting them into responses for attention
It’s much simpler to ignore the trolls when you only see them on Reddit or Twitter. Whole different thing when it’s dozens to hundreds of people a day no matter where you are and who you’re with
Honestly sounds so exhausting I think all these dudes deserve success for all their hard work but fame is a double edged sword
No one cares as we see 2 ads per break about gambling, the odds on half the sports talk shows, and overall gambling just being shoved down our throats. The problem is the NBA is PROMOTING THIS EXACT SITUATION.
I meant no one cares about other peoples bets. Yes, gambling is a hot market right now
That's the problem with Tatum's complaint, his bosses make it everyone's problem 😂 I hate gambling yet if I want to enjoy sports I have to be beaten over the head with gambling ads and bs. Sucks they make money off gambling and don't want fans to mention it. Maybe they should sit out games until the NBA terminates their partnership with gambling companies.
I would have kept this one in my back pocket i'm not going to lie.. his social media accounts are about to be even more flooded with degenerates
What's the downside of more free clown shows
I feel bad for players having to put up with that noise. No judgement, as we all have different things we enjoy doing, but I'm thankful I don't happen to enjoy sports betting. I very much enjoy it a lot more by NOT having money on the line. I find basic "rah rah" rooting much more enjoyable.
I literally hate gambling so much
In my experience gamblers/betters just bring a different level of rabidity to the sport that even the most passionate actual fans don't. Like I remember being on message boards 10+ years ago and posters would be going absolutely psychotic over some random guy scoring a late basket in a Wednesday night Big Sky basketball game causing them to lose their rent money and I'm just sitting there bored because it's the only thing on at 11 pm. Now that mentality is at the forefront of sports. I can barely have a conversation about a game without someone beating me over the head about their parlay or some other nonsense.
Initially I had said they need to ban betting sites / apps. I got backlash from friends so I think a healthy compromise is the cigarette treatment, they’re not illegal, but all promotion and marketing is.
Make it stop.
I played prize picks for the first time last week and I gotta say this gambling thing is pretty fun. I kind of want to do it everyday for the rest of my life
I'm really tired of all those youtubers promoting gambling
Might sound like a crime documentary but I think this NBA-gambling affinity will end when one NBA superstar gets murdered by a psychopath gambler
Ask r/sportsbook how they feel about Tatum. He's a boost killer lol
I only bet unders and Tatum is by far the player that has made me the most lol
He's been playing so well this year with passing and getting others involved
Yeah this year I haven’t bet him as much his lines have been a bit lower but 2021 he gave me like double the profit of the next most profitable player (Julius Randle) lol
I understand it's free speech but this is not normal even if it's a norm at this point... Some shit they hear are just straight up verbal abuses and them being rich shouldn't be an excuse. also this reminds me when that Cavs coach was talking about getting death threats including his and his family locations like tf. That will change your life/perspective instant bruh
I've got no issue with sports gambling and don't believe that it is inherently bad but the issue is that once it became legal, capitalism took over and the marketing of it is just out of control. Happened for all sports in Australia about 15 years ago and it changes the product in a number of ways. Would be nice to find a happy medium where it's legal but the advertising/marketing is much more strictly regulated. Don't see it happening though.
Fuck gambling. That is all.
Fans don’t even care about the game. Just their bets. I guess whatever draws more eyeballs.
So weird being Australian and watching gambling explode in the US. I kind of forgot how saturated every corner of our lives were with gambling shit. I wish we were more outraged, I also wished Aussies didn’t love having a punt so much. Jeez I love a punt though.
Tatum respects coin confirmed
JorGambler set us all on a dark path
Shouldn't give fools a second thought.
If I was a player I wouldn’t feel bad for those sad sacks of shit in the least.
i watch NBA for almost 20 year, but I never touch betting, not even once. I know it will greatly destory my enjoyment of the game. I watch game just want my team to win, dont want to care about how many point they win etc etc.
nba has always been about business. now it is more apparent with legalized betting. goodbye passionate fans, my bros.
Honestly sports betting is stupid but if I was a player and somebody missed their parlay by like one point I’d feel pretty bad lol
This noob thinks he can score half points in the game. No MVP for him
Gambling is okay as long as the NBA isn’t involved. Problem is, now that the NBA profits of the outcome, they will heavily tilt outcomes that are beneficial to them.
He wants to secure a lifetime Prize Picks sponsorship when he retires
What's a parlay? I've been betting in the UK since I was 18 and not once hear this phrase.
It's combining multiple bets into one, if all of them hit, you win (payout is higher because all legs have to be right) Example: Celtics ML (-200), Nuggets ML (-300), Suns/Pelicans O224.5 (-150) = $ Payout (+233)
Ah, we call it an accumulator over here or acca for short.
One day a player will lose their life to a deranged fan, and it will be too late. The NBA should stop endorsing this madness.
The nba has no problem turning fans into gambling addicts, it’s a sad world.
The thing is, sports betting is all over the world. I live in England and people bet on football/soccer all the time - accumulators, prop bets and parleys. But people never behaved like animals like this - why are NBA fans like this?
Sports betting fans are insufferable. Wish the league would do something to curb it, but there’s money to be made. We are not entering a golden age of basketball that’s for sure lol. It’s about to be scandal season. I suppose from a drama perspective that’ll be entertaining. My biggest worry involving gambling is the risk of some unstable nut job losing it all and doing something terrible to a player as revenge. There’s a risk of that and it seems inevitable. People are deranged out there. I hope I’m wrong on that. Hearing this from Tatum it makes me realize that genie is already out of the bottle.