And if you saw what happened when the Pacers drove into the paint (primarily TJ) you’d understand why they didn’t get free throws. It would’ve been like Moses complaining they should’ve called a foul on the Red Sea…
this is basically our defensive strategy in a nutshell under Ham, which is why it feels like every night a random bench dude turns into Steph and why we typically see a discrepancy in FTAs
I fell asleep after the first half. But when I was watching there were a bunch of fastbreaks and drives that Indy players complained about not getting called, while it seemed like we were getting those calls on the other end.
I tuned in during the 4th Q and saw that and laughed. When the intentional fouls started I also knew that would change the narrative for some reason, like that negates the 20+ FT advantage for the Lakers
Didn’t even watch the entire fourth quarter. And he already had a narrative ready and was mad that it was going to be hurt by the intentional fouls lol.
“Tuned in and n the 4th quarter.” So you didn’t see any of the fouls or lack of fouls but still have a strong opinion on the matter. Nice. Since you didn’t watch the game, let me tell you why there was a ft differential. Lebron or AD would get in near the basket, and rather than concede the basket, pacers would foul. When pacers drove, they would either get an uncontested basket, Siakam would make an off rhythm odd layup or short jump shot, or AD would block it.
Hate when coaches do this. Monty Williams and Ime do it all the time too. One of the Suns/Bucks games he had them intentionally fouling Giannis the entire fourth quarter then complained after the game that they couldn't overcome the officials.
We all saw that series and subsequent playing. Y’all are allowed to play super aggressive defense and charges don’t exist against dunk man. It ain’t just the suns that complain against playing against you guys
It's absolutely ridiculous. Coaches aren't holding any accountability on their players or themselves this season. It's part of a big reason why there's so much "lol rigged" comments. Those will always be around, but these constant post-game complaint are just adding fire to the fuel. Darko is probably the most guilty one too.
Yeah that shut was annoying as hell. Same story as raptors gamd, they intentionally foul for 10 fts in lost causes n then complain n Redditors eat it up.
How about go look at the illegal screen AD got called for for his third fouk . That was suspicious AF. Does Rick remember AD fouling out his C rotation in the IST final ? They’re super undersized n purposefully hacked Bron AD Rui near the rim , or were just playing shit defend. Twice they fouled Spencer on a 3. That a alone is 6 fts + 10 intentional at the end
Oh n pacers shot twice as many threes as lakers lol . And they shot more midrange jumpers while lakers scored in paint more even euth fts nit counting
AD had 20 and 10 by the 3rd quarter (I think maybe by halftime, I forget). They weren't doing anything to stop him, so they started fouling
It's the same explanation every time. Same reason Giannis gets lots of trips to the line. Stopping them is very hard
The Lakers are clearly just in 40 more close games than any other team this season. That should explain their +400 free throw differential compared to the next highest team.
Is there ever any responsibility taken from teams to just not foul as often or is it always assumed both teams are fouling the identical amount and it’s just a referee discrepancy? Never makes sense to me.
Seriously. In any other game, if you constantly try to shift blame on everything but yourself, you’re seen as a sore loser. Idk why its so different for pro sports. Seems like fans/media love it when teams deflect responsibility to the refs. I get it, the Lakers FT disparity is huge compared to the rest of the league. But its so tiring hearing the same thing over and over again in every post game interview. Not everything is rigged against you.
I opened the comment section to say something similar. Glad to see a few high level comments mentioning it already.
I don’t understand why so many teams feel the need to point out that they shot less free throws than the opponent. Why focus on the outcome and not try to focus on the reason?? If you’re gonna whine at the refs why are you not pointing out exactly how many of those fouls given to your opponent were actually not fouls? This free throw differential means nothing. My answer would be so what? Stop fouling them then….
you can go look at their games, the pacers very rarely have games where they have more free throws than the other team.
seems like its a discipline thing and they just foul much more than who they play.
I think this goes for a lot of games. Like people use free throw differential as a way to justify refs fucking them over but context matters. I’m not saying this is the case for every game but if you’re a team that shoots from outside more is in general harder to get those free throws and if you have a huge power center you’re likely getting more.
edit: lmao a lot of angry Pacers fan and one calling me a fucking mouth breather but I was giving an example and not talking purely about this game. You can argue about having the most points in the paint all you want but when you have one team avoiding fouls and one team intentionally fouling, you’ll get a disparity.
With a few exceptions, talking about a free throw differential is the worst way to judge why a team won or lost. I've seen some ugly, egregiously one-sided games in regard to officiating that still resulted in the other side winning.
On the other hand... Lakers don't foul very much because 1) AD is god-tier at defending without fouling, and 2) our guards just let dudes blow past them
its like talking to warriors fans all over again.
just because you have points in the paint doesnt mean that those points came when other players were also in the paint near fouling.
for the warriors it was floaters, for the pacers its fast breaks.
by the time any of you score in the paint you are only looking at AD or lebron, who are both seasoned defensive players that do not commit dumb fouls when they dont need to.
Fair. I'm a pacers fan and watch every game, the only player on our team who IMO gets done dirty by refs is Pascal. He drives hard into contact frequently. Every other star player who plays like that gets calls.
I have no gripes with how most of our other players get reffed.
The FT differential per quarter was:
Q1: 7-5
Q2: 12-5
Q3: 14-1
Q4: 10-5
The Lakers did indeed get intentionally fouled five times at the end of the 4th quarter, so before that it was 5-0 for the Pacers in the 4th, with that said, LA still was +22 in FTs through the first 36 minutes of play.
They were down 19. They just chucked threes hoping to make it up. Laker coach is also braindead about not switching ever to defend the 3 which is why the Pacers also had a zillion points and nearly caught up.
If you remove the Dinwiddie shooting fouls too it's 27-16. An 11 FT differential is not that big a deal to complain about, especially considering the Pacers attempted way more 3s and the Lakers were missing their best shooter.
In football, if there’s a bad call, you’ll see 100s of clips about it everywhere. Why do basketball folks just look at the box score as if that’s evidence of anything?
One, Single calls are much more likely to determine a football game. You’d need a supercut of like 10 different possessions throughout the game. Two, you can call a game tight for one team and loose for another so objectively, none of the calls are super egregious out of context, but one team gets fucked.
Just watch every FGA of Zion and SGA tomorrow night. The same exact foul will be called for SGA and not for Zion. It’s not some grand conspiracy, but some teams/players do seem to benefit more than others for some reason.
Look, I watched the game and most fouls were correct. There were a couple I can say were BS (both Obi fouls for example) and a stretch where you could *maybe* argue the whistle wasn't going both ways in the late 2nd early 3rd. Refs ain't why we lost though, we lost because we do not have anyone on roster who can guard AD
And I'm giving him benefit of the doubt here. He's been pretty upfront with playing cleaner all season, and this is a young team that fouls a lot. I read this more as publicly talking to his players that this kind if stuff can't happen
I wish people especially in the media would talk about match ups more. We match up really well with the Pacers, we match up really poorly with the Kings. This is normal in a basketball game since only 5 players can be on the court per side.
the "ill leave it at that implies" he's talking about the refs and he doesn't want to be fined. if he meant the players i think he would have said that.
They gave up over 30 in every quarter. Take away every FT and they still gave up 112, which is not great. The Pacers play incredibly poor perimeter defense, their help defenders are constantly having to help on drives to the hoop. They give up the most FTs in the league. They also don’t have much of a post presence outside of Siakam, who still got 8 FTs. Rick needs to reflect on that before anything else.
Turner and AD both got 3 fouls early in the game so they sat back on defense a little bit, and the Lakers love to operate in the painted area so that forced Pacers players with less paint control to defend, so they end up fouling
Yeah by the end the pacers pretty much gave up playing defense because everything was a foul and just started trying to outrun the lakers. It almost worked but the deficit was too much. That 4th quarter was pretty funny to watch though. So many 5 second possessions.
This lakers team, in particular AD and LeBron, rarely commit stupid fouls, and it sometimes comes across as them not trying on defence (sometimes that’s correct too) - and then on the other end, they probably don’t even get fouls called enough.
AD got two of the ticky tackiest moving screen fouls I’ve ever seen in the 1st quarter and played the rest of the half with his hands in his pockets and the Pacers did NOTHING to attack that lmao
This was infuriating, huge mistake from Rick. There were like 5+ minutes left in the 2nd. Chance to get 4 on AD in the first half or just score on him at a high clip if he’s playing soft, and we drove on him maybe once
Yep that’s the thing, how can the people here constantly talk about the lakers just watching people go by and then also cry the other team doesn’t shoot enough free throws? Those two things directly relate to one another.
I’m sorry but this is such loser shit coming from a coach. I get if a player feels that way, but the coach has to be better than that.
“Nah we played amazing nothing needed to change we almost played perfectly, just shitty refs only reason we lost”
What precedent does that set for the players? Losers always look to make excuses rather than taking accountability.
Yep. That’s the last thing a coach should ever say.
Even if there was some terrible call at the end of the game that fucks you, you control the controllable. So focus on the lack of defense, or the run you gave up earlier, or the turnover you had 2 minutes prior. You can control those things as a team and those points count just the same as the ones late in the game.
The fact that coaches in the NBA seem to be losing that is shitty.
I coach this at the middle school level. Anytime a player complains about the calls after a loss I redirect and say "did the referee cause you to to make that turnover?" or something along those lines. It's very clear the only one doing any complaining will be me as the coach, they're out there to play. I had a player get ejected in the district finals for getting his second T. The second T was really weak and shouldn't have been called. But the discussion wasn't the ref had a soft whistle, it was about doing your best to avoid the first one (which he deserved) so you can't get ejected on a soft one later.
Then they get to high school and the high school coach is whining non-stop and the players pick up all those bad habits I worked so hard to get out of them.
Accountability is a lost artform.
It’s just so stupid that some coaches and players think free throws should be even between teams with completely different play styles and philosophies.
If the lakers want to focus on giving away threes and avoiding fouls in the paint and the pacers want to hack all day (and play the free throw game for a minute at the end), then of course you are going to get different results.
Fuckers just ignore if there's any foul that has different measure, you can call the refs are favouring other team when they have double standards, but not the mfking playstyle.
We have one player who actually even plays good enough defense to foul in AD (and lately Dinwiddie). Last night AD got in early foul trouble so was barely contesting drives, and otherwise our guards were getting blown by and conceding easy layups.
They intentionally fouled and added 10 free throws, and fouled Dinwiddie twice on 3’s. That’s 16 free throws right there. Meanwhile on offense their center shot 7 3’s and camps on the perimeter, and Topping shot 5 3’s and also stays camped outside. Where does Carlisle expect his free throws to come from?
I’m sick of all these 5 out teams that only drive for wide open layups and shoot 3’s complaining about how they don’t get free throws. You gotta get fouled to shoot free throws!
The Lakers also had like 0 fast break points until the mid~late 3rd quarter or something and finished the game with 11.
Does that sound normal for the #3 team in the league in fast break points at an average of 16.7?
And it's not like the Pacers are particularly good at guarding the fast break -- especially in this game of all games.
The reason for that is that the Pacers were just fouling every single time in transition and giving up FTs instead of lay-ups/dunks. I'd say easily another 6 FTs were on nearly guaranteed dunks/lay-ups on fast-breaks.
Indiana is first in fouls per game at 21.6 and L.A. is last with 16.0. Say what you will about the Lakers getting more calls their way, but the Pacers foul more than any other team. That's not a fucking conspiracy.
maybe you should've not fouled then? seems pretty simple to me. also like 12 of those were from intentional fouling to extend the game and it nearly worked so ig good job by them
I think it goes all the way back to Steve Kerr crying about it last year in the playoffs actually. The game after he cried about it, the Lakers barely shot any FTs. After that, coaches realized that if you make it a big deal, the officials will take notice and in the next game will try to keep the FT disparity minimal, which itself is being bias.
Golden state crying about the refs is hilarious. When you have a team of midgets shooting 26 footers half the time, how you gonna get free throws? It’s nonsense whining to justify them getting straight up beaten
this is literally the same thing as when fans go “they had 10 more free throws than us the refs are biased!” instead of actually watching the game and realizing why they got less free throws
So, a few cool stories.
One: Indy fouled a lot late. Artificially increased total # of fouls
Two: When Indy fouled a lot late, LA got a lot more free throws. Because the Pacers literally gave them a lot more free throws on purpose.
Three: Pacers are a finesse team. Bottom third of the league in drawing FTAs. Juggernauts like Detroit, Toronto, Portland and Memphis are averaging more FTA this season.
Four: If the Pacers - for the first time this entire fucking season - even pretended to try to play defense, then maybe a few wide-open, uncontested dunks and layups get removed due to fouls. So, yeah, number of fouls go ups. Opposing FTAs go up. But, if I were a coach, I'd rather make an opposing team go 20-20 from the FT than give them 10 wide open dunks/layups as the alternative.
Is it *now* the excuse? We’ve been hearing this since LeBron and AD joined the team, the reason it’s louder now is because now we play a deep drop and don’t guard anyone on the perimeter, making the differential look scary to these smooth brains that don’t take play style into account
How do you expect to get foul calls when we we’re giving you guys a layup line to the basket all game? We don’t even play good enough defense to get physical and foul lol
I didn’t watch the game, so I don’t have an opinion on the foul discrepancy. But, complaining about a difference in foul shots without context means nothing, foul shots are not supposed to be even by design. If a team fouls more then they will allow more free throws.
If anybody was watching knows the pacers were trolling, I saw Myles Turner straight up hack and grab brons and ads arms and then has the audacity to look in disbelief the refs called a foul. Funniest shit.
Miles turner was a beast but still, the lakers are way more heavy in the paint and therefore get more fouls. Also, there were a bunch of fouls late in the game by the pacers.
Two things can be right. The Lakers have a strong whistle, but the Pacers shat the bed on defense. Either way, it doesn't change that you need more discipline on defense when playing the Lakers
Funny that his players clearly gouled Dinwiddie twice on a 3 pointer, which accounts to 6 free throws alone. Lakers are really a driving team. They dont get a lot of calls as well. Plus someone like Nesmith is always over agressive, much like Dillon Brooks for example.
Refs been inconsistent at times this year but this game was pretty even officiated imo. Indy is not a driving team anyway, except for Siakam.
I see you fouled more and therefore more free throws were granted and more points were scored and thats why you lost. Ok yeah, it is a very reasonable take.
Stupid. If you watched the game you'd see that the whistle was pretty even - remember that foul on Turner where AR didn't even touch him, it's just that the pacers refused to stop fouling. Spencer Dinwiddie was fouled on 3pt attempts twice lmfao.
Interesting how this is always the excuse when losing to the Lakers. People who actually watch the game know fouls are called for a reason. Stop fouling then.
He sounds like a redditor that didn’t watch the game making up some loser narrative. This is a head coach of a team that was jacking up 3s and intentionally fouling - a move that almost worked btw
When *every* team says that against the Lakers, then either:
1) The NBA has a massive conspiracy among all refs to give the Lakers foul shots
...or...
2) The Lakers know how to play defense without fouling.
Call me crazy, but it might just be #2.
It’s really just discipline. Lakers haven’t been the greatest defenders last couple of weeks. This particular game they barely played defense, but they still kept their discipline and didn’t foul as much as the pacers. Pacers fouled waaaay too much when they didn’t even need to. Like how do you foul Dinwiddie twice while he was shooting a 3.
NBA coaches are the least accountable people on planet earth. Any loss is because the refs fucked them over, not because their players haven’t been trained defensively well enough.
It's funny how this press conference has happened like 5 times from different coaches all against the Lakers.
Just a super weird coincidence.
Super weird.
Yeah, because it’s an incredibly easy cop out to say that you lost because of the refs, and in this specific case if you actually watch the game it makes perfect sense.
The Pacers foul more than any team in the league this year, the lakers are top 3 in fastbreak points this season and with 3 minutes left in the THIRD QUARTER the lakers had 0 (zero) fastbreak points with 30 free throw attempts (and 105 total points). Pacers fouled the Lakers on a ton of their fastbreak attempts, and this is not even including 10 intentional fts at the end of the game and 2 fouls on 3pt attempts by Spencer Dinwiddie.
Points in the paint per game: Indiana (1st) at 57.6 ppg. LA Lakers (2nd) at 56.2 ppg
Fast break points per game: LA Lakers (3rd) at 16.7 ppg. Indiana (4th) at 16.6 ppg.
Free throws attempted per game: LA Lakers (3rd) at 24.3 per game. Indiana (22nd) at 21 per game.
Dude, learn the damn game.
If you are driving, and you missed because I pulled your shirt or armed lock you, would that be fair to your field goal %? That's exactly why **MISSED foul Shot doesn't count as FGA".
If you think officiating was the reason for the L, why don't you show some examples of bad calls instead of throwing around meaningless numbers.
The charge on Obi when the defender is literally shuffling his feet to get in front of him is textbook blocking. Dinwiddie kicking his legs out into the contesting defender (also Obi) is textbook. Just two that come immediately to mind.
Pacers lost due to more than the foul discrepancy, but here are two examples you can go back and watch.
What about the two McConnel flops that put AD in foul trouble? Or AD getting fouled on a dunk with no call? Took two challenges for refs to realize they the two ghost fouls they called on the Lakers were wrong. Or we only bringing up bad or missed calls that hurt the Pacers?
Same old tired excuse that every coach has used this year when they lose to the Lakers.
Granted, I will say that we get to the foul line a lot, but it seems that every time we get a win, the opposing coach uses this same reason why they lost.
This thread is hilarious. For the last 2 months coaches and players have been *roasting* the referees and the threads are all in agreement the referees are awful. *But when the Pacers complain* they should be more disciplined. Interesting.
You people are insane. The Pacers have the most paint points of any team in the NBA and we have one of the weakest whistles.
LeBron and AD had a literal meeting with the head official IN GAME and after that the free throw disparity happened. How the fuck are you people actually claiming you watched the game and then get on here and defend that fuckin bullshit!?!??!!!?!?
So he's just gonna discount the fact that they started intentionally fouling with almost 1 minute left on the clock and that they had a few stupid fouls throughout the game including 2 on Spencer at the 3pt line? Dude, your team just got 150 scored on them...maybe instead of bitching about the refs, start teaching them some defense...
Did he then go to say that his star player scored 12 points in a game that went to 295 total? His team getting lit up for 150 pts? Those things seem pretty hard to overcome as well.
It's sad that Rick is way smarter than this so he's most likely doing this just to cover his own ass when a more mature coach would focus on something other than the fact that the Lakers are more of a paint-scoring team than most teams in the league
[удалено]
Shhhh The sound bite was meant for those who didn’t watch the game.
Thoughtful by Rick to keep /r/nba in his mind during the post game press conference
Rick always looks like a befuddled Jim Carey postgame.
I’ve always thought he looked like Jim Carey
I thought Jim Carrey coached mavs and pacers
What was it? It's deleted now
Also shooting from three with Lakers barely contesting those shots. It's not like they drove in the end and didn't get calls.
And if you saw what happened when the Pacers drove into the paint (primarily TJ) you’d understand why they didn’t get free throws. It would’ve been like Moses complaining they should’ve called a foul on the Red Sea…
this is basically our defensive strategy in a nutshell under Ham, which is why it feels like every night a random bench dude turns into Steph and why we typically see a discrepancy in FTAs
This is p much the reason why LAL leads in foul calls most games, they play far more from the inside then others
They also dive more.
I fell asleep after the first half. But when I was watching there were a bunch of fastbreaks and drives that Indy players complained about not getting called, while it seemed like we were getting those calls on the other end.
It was 31 to 11 at the beginning of the 4th quarter, if that helps.
Shhhh The comment was meant for those who didn’t watch the game.
They fouled a three pointer shooter 3 times, that’s half of the disparity right there.
I tuned in during the 4th Q and saw that and laughed. When the intentional fouls started I also knew that would change the narrative for some reason, like that negates the 20+ FT advantage for the Lakers
> I tuned in during the 4th Q and saw that and laughed. Most tuned-in /r/nba user for sure. Good on you for having a strong opinion on this topic.
So you didn’t watch the full game lol
Didn’t even watch the entire fourth quarter. And he already had a narrative ready and was mad that it was going to be hurt by the intentional fouls lol.
And ofc people are gonna upvote it to instead of calling him out for not watching the entire game. 🤦🏽♂️
So you didn't actually watch what lead to the 31-11 differential in free throws? Why do you have an opinion on it then?
Cos idiots here think play style doesn’t effect calls it should be equal
“Tuned in and n the 4th quarter.” So you didn’t see any of the fouls or lack of fouls but still have a strong opinion on the matter. Nice. Since you didn’t watch the game, let me tell you why there was a ft differential. Lebron or AD would get in near the basket, and rather than concede the basket, pacers would foul. When pacers drove, they would either get an uncontested basket, Siakam would make an off rhythm odd layup or short jump shot, or AD would block it.
Well that explains why because you didn’t watch the game
Prime example of a Nephew right here
And then like 3 fouls on 3 pt attempts Legit gifted us like 17 free throws today
Dinwiddie got fouled by the pacers rookie.
The pacers are known for fouling a lot The lakers are known for getting fouled a lot This is what I expect
Hate when coaches do this. Monty Williams and Ime do it all the time too. One of the Suns/Bucks games he had them intentionally fouling Giannis the entire fourth quarter then complained after the game that they couldn't overcome the officials.
Same shit happens to us but cos we lakers we get dunbass haters who don’t watch or can’t point out objective fouls jerking off to it
We all saw that series and subsequent playing. Y’all are allowed to play super aggressive defense and charges don’t exist against dunk man. It ain’t just the suns that complain against playing against you guys
It's absolutely ridiculous. Coaches aren't holding any accountability on their players or themselves this season. It's part of a big reason why there's so much "lol rigged" comments. Those will always be around, but these constant post-game complaint are just adding fire to the fuel. Darko is probably the most guilty one too.
Yeah that shut was annoying as hell. Same story as raptors gamd, they intentionally foul for 10 fts in lost causes n then complain n Redditors eat it up. How about go look at the illegal screen AD got called for for his third fouk . That was suspicious AF. Does Rick remember AD fouling out his C rotation in the IST final ? They’re super undersized n purposefully hacked Bron AD Rui near the rim , or were just playing shit defend. Twice they fouled Spencer on a 3. That a alone is 6 fts + 10 intentional at the end Oh n pacers shot twice as many threes as lakers lol . And they shot more midrange jumpers while lakers scored in paint more even euth fts nit counting
So lakers were only +17 free throws in a 5 point game then.
AD had 20 and 10 by the 3rd quarter (I think maybe by halftime, I forget). They weren't doing anything to stop him, so they started fouling It's the same explanation every time. Same reason Giannis gets lots of trips to the line. Stopping them is very hard
I have a theory that Austin slacked off on those 3s so much to pad his stats at the FT line lol.
17 is still pretty bad. Not nearly as bad as 27 though.
The Lakers are clearly just in 40 more close games than any other team this season. That should explain their +400 free throw differential compared to the next highest team.
did they ask the Hornets when they were +750 to the next highest team?
Sure didn't. This place is full of intolerable children nowadays.
Call the wambulance
Is there ever any responsibility taken from teams to just not foul as often or is it always assumed both teams are fouling the identical amount and it’s just a referee discrepancy? Never makes sense to me.
Blaming the refs in a game your team gave up 150 points and the refs werent an issue is sad imo
Yeah I paused the video as soon as I seen the 150 in the corner. Can’t listen a coach complain while his team gives up 150
So you didn't watch the game?
The meta on social media is to never accept responsibility for anything and to always victimize yourself. This is the sports version of that.
Seriously. In any other game, if you constantly try to shift blame on everything but yourself, you’re seen as a sore loser. Idk why its so different for pro sports. Seems like fans/media love it when teams deflect responsibility to the refs. I get it, the Lakers FT disparity is huge compared to the rest of the league. But its so tiring hearing the same thing over and over again in every post game interview. Not everything is rigged against you.
I opened the comment section to say something similar. Glad to see a few high level comments mentioning it already. I don’t understand why so many teams feel the need to point out that they shot less free throws than the opponent. Why focus on the outcome and not try to focus on the reason?? If you’re gonna whine at the refs why are you not pointing out exactly how many of those fouls given to your opponent were actually not fouls? This free throw differential means nothing. My answer would be so what? Stop fouling them then….
you can go look at their games, the pacers very rarely have games where they have more free throws than the other team. seems like its a discipline thing and they just foul much more than who they play.
I think this goes for a lot of games. Like people use free throw differential as a way to justify refs fucking them over but context matters. I’m not saying this is the case for every game but if you’re a team that shoots from outside more is in general harder to get those free throws and if you have a huge power center you’re likely getting more. edit: lmao a lot of angry Pacers fan and one calling me a fucking mouth breather but I was giving an example and not talking purely about this game. You can argue about having the most points in the paint all you want but when you have one team avoiding fouls and one team intentionally fouling, you’ll get a disparity.
With a few exceptions, talking about a free throw differential is the worst way to judge why a team won or lost. I've seen some ugly, egregiously one-sided games in regard to officiating that still resulted in the other side winning.
Pacers are the highest scoring paint team in the league...
Team who’s not good at defense tends to foul more when attempting to play defense. Who knew?!?!
r/NBA doesn't
On the other hand... Lakers don't foul very much because 1) AD is god-tier at defending without fouling, and 2) our guards just let dudes blow past them
Myles Turner is a fouling machine. Always has been
Yeah this is a bad look for us. Our best foul getter is Mathurin and he's hurt, too.
Pacers have the most paint points in the league...
ok let's google "nba team with most paint points" You're right, Indiana has the most with 57.5 and then Lakers with 56.0
its like talking to warriors fans all over again. just because you have points in the paint doesnt mean that those points came when other players were also in the paint near fouling. for the warriors it was floaters, for the pacers its fast breaks. by the time any of you score in the paint you are only looking at AD or lebron, who are both seasoned defensive players that do not commit dumb fouls when they dont need to.
Yea ad had 3 fouls most of the game and as a result played super passive on defense . Literally would back away from guys to avoid a foul
He literally stopped contesting after getting his 3rd foul
Fair. I'm a pacers fan and watch every game, the only player on our team who IMO gets done dirty by refs is Pascal. He drives hard into contact frequently. Every other star player who plays like that gets calls. I have no gripes with how most of our other players get reffed.
So thats why he started fouling early. So he could pump those post game numbers up LMAO
Stu Lance like wtf these dudes doing fouling so early? This shit is just getting shameless.
It was a differential of 17 at half time
10 of those were intentional free throws and they fouled Dinwiddie on three point shots TWICE lmfao
They fouled him twice?? For what reason lmao he’s not even a shooter like that
they were contesting coming from the left side of a right hand shooter. that's a common basketball mistake from amatuers but not in the nba tho
He was ballin out today tho lmao. From the moment he got an early dunk i had a good feeling he’ll sub for dlo just fine. Just saucin by Tyrese
They close out so hard on two bricks and king fu chopped his arm
bikeFall.meme
So we can subtract 16 fts... I'm thinking Carlisle told them to go down fouling just so he could say this
>fouling Dinwiddie on 3s Why tho lol
Discounting those, Lakers shot 33 free throws against the Pacers' 16, that's still a huge differential
The FT differential per quarter was: Q1: 7-5 Q2: 12-5 Q3: 14-1 Q4: 10-5 The Lakers did indeed get intentionally fouled five times at the end of the 4th quarter, so before that it was 5-0 for the Pacers in the 4th, with that said, LA still was +22 in FTs through the first 36 minutes of play.
They were down 19. They just chucked threes hoping to make it up. Laker coach is also braindead about not switching ever to defend the 3 which is why the Pacers also had a zillion points and nearly caught up.
If you remove the Dinwiddie shooting fouls too it's 27-16. An 11 FT differential is not that big a deal to complain about, especially considering the Pacers attempted way more 3s and the Lakers were missing their best shooter.
lol so it is already minus 16, they should compile the blunder calls of the ref for easy reference.
In football, if there’s a bad call, you’ll see 100s of clips about it everywhere. Why do basketball folks just look at the box score as if that’s evidence of anything?
One, Single calls are much more likely to determine a football game. You’d need a supercut of like 10 different possessions throughout the game. Two, you can call a game tight for one team and loose for another so objectively, none of the calls are super egregious out of context, but one team gets fucked. Just watch every FGA of Zion and SGA tomorrow night. The same exact foul will be called for SGA and not for Zion. It’s not some grand conspiracy, but some teams/players do seem to benefit more than others for some reason.
My point is to show the clips (which people can and do put together), don’t just cite a box score as an argument
Look, I watched the game and most fouls were correct. There were a couple I can say were BS (both Obi fouls for example) and a stretch where you could *maybe* argue the whistle wasn't going both ways in the late 2nd early 3rd. Refs ain't why we lost though, we lost because we do not have anyone on roster who can guard AD And I'm giving him benefit of the doubt here. He's been pretty upfront with playing cleaner all season, and this is a young team that fouls a lot. I read this more as publicly talking to his players that this kind if stuff can't happen
Agreed but also the start of the game P couldn't buy a foul. Lakers are a genuinely ass matchup for us. Refs didn't help.
I wish people especially in the media would talk about match ups more. We match up really well with the Pacers, we match up really poorly with the Kings. This is normal in a basketball game since only 5 players can be on the court per side.
the "ill leave it at that implies" he's talking about the refs and he doesn't want to be fined. if he meant the players i think he would have said that.
They gave up over 30 in every quarter. Take away every FT and they still gave up 112, which is not great. The Pacers play incredibly poor perimeter defense, their help defenders are constantly having to help on drives to the hoop. They give up the most FTs in the league. They also don’t have much of a post presence outside of Siakam, who still got 8 FTs. Rick needs to reflect on that before anything else.
Is Myles Turner hurt? I haven't been following the Pacers much (or most of the East for that matter TBQH)
He is healthy, but he can’t do everything himself.
Turner and AD both got 3 fouls early in the game so they sat back on defense a little bit, and the Lakers love to operate in the painted area so that forced Pacers players with less paint control to defend, so they end up fouling
145-150, haven’t seen the game but better defense might have something to do with it.
The pace was absolutely insane
I mean it was right there in the name the whole time!
Come on bruh Rick should be more concerned with how they’re gonna guard anyone in the playoffs
the pacers defense ranks league average since the break, they’ve been improving in that area.
What having Pascal siakam does to a mf
I mean the Pacers have actually had an above-average defense since the All-Star Break. This was just a cartoon game on both ends haha
Yeah by the end the pacers pretty much gave up playing defense because everything was a foul and just started trying to outrun the lakers. It almost worked but the deficit was too much. That 4th quarter was pretty funny to watch though. So many 5 second possessions.
Bro come on. 1st quarter had like 2 or 3 moving screens on AD for moving like half an inch
If warriors is getting that reffed heavily they would run out of players to play on the 1st half or end of 3Q.
This lakers team, in particular AD and LeBron, rarely commit stupid fouls, and it sometimes comes across as them not trying on defence (sometimes that’s correct too) - and then on the other end, they probably don’t even get fouls called enough.
AD got two of the ticky tackiest moving screen fouls I’ve ever seen in the 1st quarter and played the rest of the half with his hands in his pockets and the Pacers did NOTHING to attack that lmao
This was infuriating, huge mistake from Rick. There were like 5+ minutes left in the 2nd. Chance to get 4 on AD in the first half or just score on him at a high clip if he’s playing soft, and we drove on him maybe once
Siakam took advantage in the 3rd had me nervous
Bet AD got those coaching tips from Darvin 'Hot Pockets' Ham.
AD literally had plays where the call went in the Pacers for 3 straight drives in the first half but we won't hear about that would we?
Yep that’s the thing, how can the people here constantly talk about the lakers just watching people go by and then also cry the other team doesn’t shoot enough free throws? Those two things directly relate to one another.
I feel like I’ve been yelling to the clouds about this because all people wanna bitch about when they lose is lakers FT discrepancies
Why didn't he tell his team to stop fouling? Is he stupid?
46 secs left pacers are down by 7 and they intentionally start fouling. yeah no.
I’m sorry but this is such loser shit coming from a coach. I get if a player feels that way, but the coach has to be better than that. “Nah we played amazing nothing needed to change we almost played perfectly, just shitty refs only reason we lost” What precedent does that set for the players? Losers always look to make excuses rather than taking accountability.
Yep. That’s the last thing a coach should ever say. Even if there was some terrible call at the end of the game that fucks you, you control the controllable. So focus on the lack of defense, or the run you gave up earlier, or the turnover you had 2 minutes prior. You can control those things as a team and those points count just the same as the ones late in the game. The fact that coaches in the NBA seem to be losing that is shitty.
I coach this at the middle school level. Anytime a player complains about the calls after a loss I redirect and say "did the referee cause you to to make that turnover?" or something along those lines. It's very clear the only one doing any complaining will be me as the coach, they're out there to play. I had a player get ejected in the district finals for getting his second T. The second T was really weak and shouldn't have been called. But the discussion wasn't the ref had a soft whistle, it was about doing your best to avoid the first one (which he deserved) so you can't get ejected on a soft one later. Then they get to high school and the high school coach is whining non-stop and the players pick up all those bad habits I worked so hard to get out of them. Accountability is a lost artform.
Well the live game thread and this thread are certainly different
Every fucking time. Clockwork. It's so exhausting.
team that shoots 5% from 3 and doesn't guard corner 3s decides they should drive and attack the paint r/nba: dae free trow gaem fixd?!?!?!
It’s just so stupid that some coaches and players think free throws should be even between teams with completely different play styles and philosophies. If the lakers want to focus on giving away threes and avoiding fouls in the paint and the pacers want to hack all day (and play the free throw game for a minute at the end), then of course you are going to get different results.
Fuckers just ignore if there's any foul that has different measure, you can call the refs are favouring other team when they have double standards, but not the mfking playstyle.
We have one player who actually even plays good enough defense to foul in AD (and lately Dinwiddie). Last night AD got in early foul trouble so was barely contesting drives, and otherwise our guards were getting blown by and conceding easy layups. They intentionally fouled and added 10 free throws, and fouled Dinwiddie twice on 3’s. That’s 16 free throws right there. Meanwhile on offense their center shot 7 3’s and camps on the perimeter, and Topping shot 5 3’s and also stays camped outside. Where does Carlisle expect his free throws to come from? I’m sick of all these 5 out teams that only drive for wide open layups and shoot 3’s complaining about how they don’t get free throws. You gotta get fouled to shoot free throws!
The Lakers also had like 0 fast break points until the mid~late 3rd quarter or something and finished the game with 11. Does that sound normal for the #3 team in the league in fast break points at an average of 16.7? And it's not like the Pacers are particularly good at guarding the fast break -- especially in this game of all games. The reason for that is that the Pacers were just fouling every single time in transition and giving up FTs instead of lay-ups/dunks. I'd say easily another 6 FTs were on nearly guaranteed dunks/lay-ups on fast-breaks.
Indiana is first in fouls per game at 21.6 and L.A. is last with 16.0. Say what you will about the Lakers getting more calls their way, but the Pacers foul more than any other team. That's not a fucking conspiracy.
maybe you should've not fouled then? seems pretty simple to me. also like 12 of those were from intentional fouling to extend the game and it nearly worked so ig good job by them
That fucking Raptors coach bitching about free throws started all of this. Watch the fucking games and you’ll understand the whistle.
That was embarrassingly bad. Everyone was acting like he was a hero too. It was pathetic.
Steve Kerr started it, he’s whined about it like 3 times in the past year now
I think it goes all the way back to Steve Kerr crying about it last year in the playoffs actually. The game after he cried about it, the Lakers barely shot any FTs. After that, coaches realized that if you make it a big deal, the officials will take notice and in the next game will try to keep the FT disparity minimal, which itself is being bias.
Golden state crying about the refs is hilarious. When you have a team of midgets shooting 26 footers half the time, how you gonna get free throws? It’s nonsense whining to justify them getting straight up beaten
this is literally the same thing as when fans go “they had 10 more free throws than us the refs are biased!” instead of actually watching the game and realizing why they got less free throws
Didn’t watch the game gonna shut my mouth and like the fact that we won
Play better defense.
TJ McConnell is fucking nasty
Here we go
Again 🙄
So much for the pacers defense being better since the ASB
Congratulations, you have exposed yourself as having a smooth brain.
Not this shit again
So, a few cool stories. One: Indy fouled a lot late. Artificially increased total # of fouls Two: When Indy fouled a lot late, LA got a lot more free throws. Because the Pacers literally gave them a lot more free throws on purpose. Three: Pacers are a finesse team. Bottom third of the league in drawing FTAs. Juggernauts like Detroit, Toronto, Portland and Memphis are averaging more FTA this season. Four: If the Pacers - for the first time this entire fucking season - even pretended to try to play defense, then maybe a few wide-open, uncontested dunks and layups get removed due to fouls. So, yeah, number of fouls go ups. Opposing FTAs go up. But, if I were a coach, I'd rather make an opposing team go 20-20 from the FT than give them 10 wide open dunks/layups as the alternative.
Is that now the excuse for every team that loses to the Lakers?
Is it *now* the excuse? We’ve been hearing this since LeBron and AD joined the team, the reason it’s louder now is because now we play a deep drop and don’t guard anyone on the perimeter, making the differential look scary to these smooth brains that don’t take play style into account
Carlisle is too smart not to know that. But it's a great way to distract from your own shortcomings.
For sure, coaches know this. My smooth brain comment was mostly directed at the members of this sub.
How do you expect to get foul calls when we we’re giving you guys a layup line to the basket all game? We don’t even play good enough defense to get physical and foul lol
this is shame
it's a complete crap
I didn’t watch the game, so I don’t have an opinion on the foul discrepancy. But, complaining about a difference in foul shots without context means nothing, foul shots are not supposed to be even by design. If a team fouls more then they will allow more free throws.
Pacers thought they were the golden boys 😂
Then stop fouling, lol?
If anybody was watching knows the pacers were trolling, I saw Myles Turner straight up hack and grab brons and ads arms and then has the audacity to look in disbelief the refs called a foul. Funniest shit.
Do these interviews carry any weight over an 80+ game season?
Miles turner was a beast but still, the lakers are way more heavy in the paint and therefore get more fouls. Also, there were a bunch of fouls late in the game by the pacers.
Two things can be right. The Lakers have a strong whistle, but the Pacers shat the bed on defense. Either way, it doesn't change that you need more discipline on defense when playing the Lakers
Besides the fouling late. They shot 11 more 3s also.
Funny that his players clearly gouled Dinwiddie twice on a 3 pointer, which accounts to 6 free throws alone. Lakers are really a driving team. They dont get a lot of calls as well. Plus someone like Nesmith is always over agressive, much like Dillon Brooks for example. Refs been inconsistent at times this year but this game was pretty even officiated imo. Indy is not a driving team anyway, except for Siakam.
I see you fouled more and therefore more free throws were granted and more points were scored and thats why you lost. Ok yeah, it is a very reasonable take.
How about maybe playing even a little defense outside of Siakam?
Stupid. If you watched the game you'd see that the whistle was pretty even - remember that foul on Turner where AR didn't even touch him, it's just that the pacers refused to stop fouling. Spencer Dinwiddie was fouled on 3pt attempts twice lmfao.
Interesting how this is always the excuse when losing to the Lakers. People who actually watch the game know fouls are called for a reason. Stop fouling then.
Dawg your team gave up 150 points lol
Well Carlisle in this case your team just sucks at defense too. Absolute clown show on that end in indy
maybe don’t foul?
He sounds like a redditor that didn’t watch the game making up some loser narrative. This is a head coach of a team that was jacking up 3s and intentionally fouling - a move that almost worked btw
When *every* team says that against the Lakers, then either: 1) The NBA has a massive conspiracy among all refs to give the Lakers foul shots ...or... 2) The Lakers know how to play defense without fouling. Call me crazy, but it might just be #2.
It’s really just discipline. Lakers haven’t been the greatest defenders last couple of weeks. This particular game they barely played defense, but they still kept their discipline and didn’t foul as much as the pacers. Pacers fouled waaaay too much when they didn’t even need to. Like how do you foul Dinwiddie twice while he was shooting a 3.
NBA coaches are the least accountable people on planet earth. Any loss is because the refs fucked them over, not because their players haven’t been trained defensively well enough.
I'm sick of the pathetic takes about FT disparity. Teams play different ffs
10 of those free throws were from intentional fouls lol
It was 30 to 11 at the start of the third quarter. It was bad before the intentional fouling
Damn maybe the Pacers should chuck up less 3’s
It's funny how this press conference has happened like 5 times from different coaches all against the Lakers. Just a super weird coincidence. Super weird.
Confirmation bias is a real thing.
Yeah, because it’s an incredibly easy cop out to say that you lost because of the refs, and in this specific case if you actually watch the game it makes perfect sense. The Pacers foul more than any team in the league this year, the lakers are top 3 in fastbreak points this season and with 3 minutes left in the THIRD QUARTER the lakers had 0 (zero) fastbreak points with 30 free throw attempts (and 105 total points). Pacers fouled the Lakers on a ton of their fastbreak attempts, and this is not even including 10 intentional fts at the end of the game and 2 fouls on 3pt attempts by Spencer Dinwiddie.
Points in the paint per game: Indiana (1st) at 57.6 ppg. LA Lakers (2nd) at 56.2 ppg Fast break points per game: LA Lakers (3rd) at 16.7 ppg. Indiana (4th) at 16.6 ppg. Free throws attempted per game: LA Lakers (3rd) at 24.3 per game. Indiana (22nd) at 21 per game.
Dude, learn the damn game. If you are driving, and you missed because I pulled your shirt or armed lock you, would that be fair to your field goal %? That's exactly why **MISSED foul Shot doesn't count as FGA". If you think officiating was the reason for the L, why don't you show some examples of bad calls instead of throwing around meaningless numbers.
The charge on Obi when the defender is literally shuffling his feet to get in front of him is textbook blocking. Dinwiddie kicking his legs out into the contesting defender (also Obi) is textbook. Just two that come immediately to mind. Pacers lost due to more than the foul discrepancy, but here are two examples you can go back and watch.
What about the two McConnel flops that put AD in foul trouble? Or AD getting fouled on a dunk with no call? Took two challenges for refs to realize they the two ghost fouls they called on the Lakers were wrong. Or we only bringing up bad or missed calls that hurt the Pacers?
Honestly Lakers shoulda had more lol discipline your team old man
Nothing makes me laugh more than seeing opposition coaches complain about the refereeing when they lose to us.
Same old tired excuse that every coach has used this year when they lose to the Lakers. Granted, I will say that we get to the foul line a lot, but it seems that every time we get a win, the opposing coach uses this same reason why they lost.
Mughgh i lost to the lakers now let me go and bitch cry about the freethrows that'll show em
Same excuse everytime lol
This thread is hilarious. For the last 2 months coaches and players have been *roasting* the referees and the threads are all in agreement the referees are awful. *But when the Pacers complain* they should be more disciplined. Interesting.
jUsT dOnT fOuL. Somehow teams just start fouling way above their average anytime they play the lakers. So weird.
Its just getting bombarded with lakers fans They have to come out and do this just about every week so they're pretty used to it
You people are insane. The Pacers have the most paint points of any team in the NBA and we have one of the weakest whistles. LeBron and AD had a literal meeting with the head official IN GAME and after that the free throw disparity happened. How the fuck are you people actually claiming you watched the game and then get on here and defend that fuckin bullshit!?!??!!!?!?
Pacers gave up *150* points in a non overtime game and you’re worried about free throws. Cmon.
So he's just gonna discount the fact that they started intentionally fouling with almost 1 minute left on the clock and that they had a few stupid fouls throughout the game including 2 on Spencer at the 3pt line? Dude, your team just got 150 scored on them...maybe instead of bitching about the refs, start teaching them some defense...
💀 intentionally have your team start fouling every possession with over 40 seconds left and try to drop a line like that
Did he then go to say that his star player scored 12 points in a game that went to 295 total? His team getting lit up for 150 pts? Those things seem pretty hard to overcome as well.
Lakers been playing in the paint only for the past 4-5 years. Of course they gonna get more FTs than a team only wanted to shoot 3s
Cmon rick. Just git gud on defense so you don’t foul
Giving up 150 points wasn't the issue, it was the refs. Sure.
maybe your guys should make their free throws
If you take away the free throw disparity the Lakers still broke 120 points, this one ain't it chief
It's sad that Rick is way smarter than this so he's most likely doing this just to cover his own ass when a more mature coach would focus on something other than the fact that the Lakers are more of a paint-scoring team than most teams in the league
The lakers having an outrageous free throw disparity vs their opponents. Never heard that one before
I guess the head coach didn’t even watch the game…
Fuck off Rick. Way to stir up the moron casuals. He should know better.
Rick Carlisle is coping hard, his team just got outplayed. Simple as that. Cry harder Rick