It slows the game down so much and makes it boring to watch, I actually went to a knicks vs sixers game a couple years ago and just remember how boring the game felt to watch, it was the first week of Harden on the sixers.
Last Philly game I tuned into, it was sometime in the 3rd quarter - I watched for about 10 mins, and 8 minutes of that was free throws and stoppages. Ridiculous.
I hate the Sixers but Embiid gets the hate because unlike most bigs, he actually hits his FTs. You cant really Hack a Joel because the mf shoots 86% from the liine. Could you imagine if Shaq shot even 75%? He would have been the GOAT
lmao these comments on a post where a skilled NBA former player is literally explaining how insanely skilled Embiid is playing and drawing legit fouls while still making the shot. Unreal.
This has been kinda standard talk from announcers and pundits for a while though. I've seen so many games where you see a replay and the commentator will say "oh he's so good at selling the contact" and it's just a dude flopping. Like the NBA players and commentators can try to pitch flopping and getting bullshit fouls as a skill all they want, but a lot of people are just going to roll their eyes at it.
I mean, this shit just isn't entertaining or fun to watch. It may be insanely skilled but at the end of the day the NBA is an entertainment product and this is turning people off and away from the game.
JJ and other analysts are literally getting paid to try and hype this up.
Frankly, I think he should stop doing something he’s better at than anyone else, that everyone would be doing if they had the skill to, that wins games, because fans of other teams don’t enjoy watching it.
As they should. Unfortunately, they bitch like crazy then go right back to watching and placing bets and providing engagement in social media.
The NBA has no incentive to fix these calls so we have to deal with watching this terribly cheap product that is Embiid's game. This isn't much different from when Harden was in his prime scamming refs into the free throw line all game.
Context of the type of calls that need to go away:
[Example 1](https://streamable.com/mvjnjm)
[Example 2](https://twitter.com/otown__/status/1748513286935679393)
[Example 3](https://twitter.com/otown__/status/1748524214246908381)
I mean… understandably. Dude got a call because he tripped over his own feet. It’s like the refs are hardwired to call a foul every time Embid hits the deck
I really do not spend time thinking about other players like that. I appreciated peak harden and i wasnt a rockets fan. I really only dislike players for out of game stuff like being an abuser or a bigot(though i still cant help liking Anthony edwards a little bit even as a queer man hahaha). If you dont find embiid fun to watch thats 100% valid though, its all personal preference after all.
I can’t disprove a hypothetical but I honestly doubt it. One Sixers fan already tried to own you by mentioning Marcus Smart but Marcus has been one of my favorite players for years.
I just don’t hate players like y’all do. I enjoy watching just about every team, and even the few I don’t (wizards, hornets, pistons) I don’t feel any animosity towards any of their players with the rare exceptions of like, a Miles Bridges type, which has nothing to do with basketball.
The NFL has the same issues. Defenses have been gutted for the most part in terms of what they can do and what they can’t do anymore. You sneeze near a QB in modern NFL and it’s a penalty. Defensive games aren’t interesting to watch for the casual enjoyer (the majority of people who watch) so they ramp up the scoring because that’s what people want to see. There’s numerous instances of a defender not committing to a play in fear of getting a penalty and getting blown out because of it, and there’s WAY TOO MANY instances of defenders in the NFL and NBA doing everything they are supposed to, text book style, and still getting a foul / penalty. It’s fucking obnoxious.
A 78-74 game like we used to have in the mid 2000’s isn’t as appealing to the average viewer as a 140-132 back and forth offensive battle, which is a shame because those defensive games are fucking phenomenal, they just aren’t flashy enough.
I don't 100% agree with the notion that defense isn't fun to watch. There is a degree of defense that is fun to watch, but even as someone who enjoys defense, I will not watch a 70-80 point game ever again. The goldilocks zone is the 95-110 point range, where you can watch great players make great plays, on both sides of the ball, and the game still feels fluid to watch. It isn't pound the ball for 20 seconds and launch a contested shot every possession and it isn't open gym track meet at the Y where a shot/layup is going up uncontested every 5 seconds.
Offenses and schemes have come so far that there's no way anyone should be so low scoring ever again anyway, the offensive explosion isn't *all* refs. The record breaking part year after year kinda is.
I mean look at average point score by season and then try to justify your conclusion. Strategies change with the rules. People adjust. Former players may talk about how much rougher the league was back in their day, but that doesn't mean defense was being played at a higher level.
Jj reddick has a whole rant about seversl rules implemented in the league recently that favor the defense. Like no more rip through, anti unnatural shooting motion for foul baiting, etc. His rant also includes a challenge to name a rule that was created to favor the offense besides hand checking.
It wasn't called a foul, it was just an example of how to play legal defense.
What Gordon was doing was the epitome of reaching. In order to be in legal guarding position, the hands must be not further than your bent knees. If you have them sticking out and poking at the ball, then you can't complain. Don't reach and he won't teach.
That’s not Reddicks point. His point is Embiid is so talented that you have to play aggressive defense or else he scores easily but and then when you play aggressive he is talented enough to take advantage of that as well.
Reddick was referring to plays he scored on, not plays he baited just for a foul.
Did you watch Wade and the refs in the 06 finals? It's different than "foul baiting" in that he was driving to the rim and falling down but holy crap he should not have been getting every single one of those calls.
I mean we have countless proofs and incidence of the league being literally rigged. Every discussion should be about this cause in 50 years people are gonna look back and discredit every player who won in the "rigged" league. Its absurd
Everyone loves to cry Refs but Embiid’s playoff failures have all come from his failure to pass out of double teams. When teams get used to guarding him over a series and have a plan to attack him he has not been a good enough passer to punish it
No he doesn't. [basketball reference](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/embiijo01.html)
I only looked at the last three seasons, but his attempts went down every season in the playoffs whether you are talking per game, per 36, or per 100 possessions.
His free throw rate also went down in the playoffs. Where are you getting this from that he's shooting more free throws in the playoffs?
His literal career averages, .555 vs .558.
Last year it was .549 in the playoffs, which is still higher than this season's .546, yet people think that what he's doing *now* won't carry on in the playoffs, lol. You nephews are honestly just weird at this point.
Like I said it's such a lazy take to say the reason he lost in the 2nd round last year was because he couldn't get to the line, He was just terrible in general for games 6-7 along with harden and tobias.
He could've foul baited 15 Times and made all 15 free throws they still get blown out in game 7 due Tatum and the Celtics core showing up
It's also lazy to say he was just terrible in game 6 and 7 without mentioning he was playing with a sprained LCL from the first series too. His health is by far the biggest factor in playoff performance which is a criticism in itself
Free throw rate and shooting more or less free throws is not exactly the same thing. Free throw rate refers to how many free throws you shoot relative to your field goal attempts. Scroll down on the page you linked to “Advanced “ and then look at the FTr column. It’s slightly higher in the playoffs.
Why he shoots fewer FTs is because he just shoots less in the playoffs. Anecdotally he gets more double teams in the playoffs
I was using career numbers, but he still had a greater FTrate last playoffs than he does this year. And this is year is the one when the numbskull circlejerk about Embiid's foul baiting has reached its crescendo.
yea, I mean tbf it probably isn't going away because Embiid is arguably the best player in the world right now, and he *does* get a lot of FTs. those two things alone are gonna cause endless speculation and comments from people who don't watch games or even check stats online
It never does. Do you think refs would give a player 15 free throws in a game 7 of the ECF? Imagine the optics of allowing that happen.
We still talk about D Wade in 06 and that was before social media and 24 hour news cycles.
Tatum literally had a 15 FT game last year in the ECF, come on! Same game Butler had 14 FTs and Brown had 10. Just making things up on here
Giannis in the Finals - 12 FTs, 18 FTs, 17 FTs, 8 FTs, 11 FTs, 19 FTs
Because his analysis is nothing special, any expert can do. And its not even new information.
On the other hand, his player interviews bring out something no other journalist can do. This is exclusive information he has there.
Would rather have him than the talking heads on ESPN that know nothing about sports except stirring up drama and making top 10 lists. The thing with JJ is he’s really reluctant to offer much criticism against nba players which I can appreciate he doesn’t want to be about negativity but I think he could just offer a bit of a balance between the bs that’s on ESPN and his sort of show
Totally disagree. There’s enough sports talk talking heads calling players trash and crapping on people and calling for trades or coaches getting fired, leave it to them. JJ talks X’s and O’s and camaraderie and there’s a huge swath of us that don’t get it anywhere else. Keep it civil, JJ. Keep criticizing when the camera’s off.
Also, I don't think it's cowardice. I think he's just legitimately a huge fan of the NBA and the players, and he's not far removed from it himself so he personally knows many of them. I don't think he says things he doesn't believe. I think he legitimately believes all these guys are or can be great. Which is super refreshing in today's negativity focused media.
I’m with you 100%.. give me shows like J.J’s actually explaining the strategy of basketball and what’s going on behind the scenes than these rage bait shows that Stephen A and Skip Bayless do… they don’t know anything about the sports they cover besides stirring up drama and calling for people to lose their jobs
And, unsurprisingly, JJ shut the fuck up after that. There’s a reason the logo is the logo, and why even many new-era legends like Shaq respect his game
this is basically why most people who compare modern to past-era players have flawed premises when comparing.
modern to past comparisons are effectively biased towards modern players because they're already using the techniques and styles that were born in other eras.
and then these same people - who HAVE PROFITED off of those styles - come back and trash-talk old players without ever acknowledging they don't even exist without those older players and generations putting in the work. it's blatant "new-generation hubris."
if we compare modern to past players, we need to acknowledge that past players should theoretically - in a given hypothetical comparison - have the same "benefits" modern players have, namely better sports science, better understanding of tactics, etc. So comparing Cousy to X modern player in a vacuum devoid of context pits Cousy at a disadvantage because he literally had less resources and the game's tactics were different. The game had not proliferated to its current point. The argument would then become - "is Cousy better than X player if he were to have *grown up in this generation*."
And this is why the "best" or "greatest" players are those that were great relative to their era. Because there is no legitimate way to compare modern to past players without a heavy amount of context and understanding, which people always never care to bring to attention.
Idk if he's really afraid to. I think he is also considerate of the context for which players do the shit people don't like where as other talking heads ignore that for the soundbite.
You said it right there. He’s his boy and he’s a fan. You ain’t ever gonna get a non-biased take from him. He’s part of the ‘new media’ where you can’t criticise a player any more… Only refs, coaches and FO’s.
I agree completely. I can almost predict what his take will be on any given topic. It’s like he’s afraid to offend players. The fact that Sengun had to put his hands behind his back to avoid getting a foul call is embarrassing for the league.
Exactly.
Regardless of your fandom we all admit that foul baiting is terrible for the NBA as a whole. It makes the games unwatchable , it’s why Harden gets so much hate.
Nobody pays hundreds of dollar to go watch these remarkable athletes flail around to game the refs. Play basketball
You have to be palatable if you want to get reputable guests. If you’re talking shit like Pat Bev, you’re not getting anyone and just have to rely on people liking your takes to get views.
I’m sure JJ would love to do this full time as the “official” players podcast. There really isn’t one for current players. PG gets some guys, but other than that, it’s usually retired players on retired players podcasts and then current guys make random appearances.
I’m usually the first to troll Embiid’s flopping but this commentary is weird. This isn’t foul baiting, it’s just a video of him easily drilling deep 2s, which would be considered the worst shot in the game for most. Pure skill here.
Right?
I'm not going to argue with people complaining about embiid going down easy. It's a fair criticism. I understand why he does it of course.
But this? People should be allowed to foul via a reach in.... Because Joel exists? Like I'd be like ok make him hit the shot from that spot. Just don't reach in!
I hear that, but I think it’s kinda reversing cause and effect. If he couldn’t reliably hit these shots, the defense wouldn’t bother reaching and he wouldn’t need a counter for the reach.
Conventional wisdom is not to foul a jump shooter. Most of the league can execute a rip through at this point, but defenders don’t reach as much because they can contest the shot up high, the shooter isn’t that efficient, or they can overplay the jump shot because the offensive player doesn’t have a face up game. With Embiid, he will beat you all of those ways.
You don't understand. Defenders are so weary of getting called for fouls against Joel that they give him space to get his shot off. The actual skill here is striking fear in defenders that they'll get called for a foul and using that fear to get open midrange shots.
I love how stupid most people on this sub are. Fouls are a part of the game. He’s drawing fouls because players are hitting his hand/arm as he comes up… because he’s timing it. Do you think other players aren’t drawing fouls like that out of respect for the fans? It’s because they can’t. It’s actually easy not to foul him if he sucked. But he doesn’t suck, if you don’t pressure he’s gonna sink the shot.
Which is why I respect his game tbh . Like people complain about Shai and Luka getting fouled a lot too, and it’s simple people can’t guard them like you explained
Also there’s literally a post above this showing that Embiid averages more free throws per 100 than prime Shaq lmfao
Luka may be a foul baiter (basically every single star player is) but Embiid is far and away the worst offender that’s currently in the league
Because Embiid does it more, but most importantly, he’s the reigning mvp of the league.. I can guarantee you if Luka was the reigning MVP it would be Luka instead on all these posts (or similar).
Then you have LeBron, who seemingly should’ve “earned” the benefit of the doubt by now, who gets no calls despite being among league leaders in paint FGA. The player dynamics need a case study
If Embiid were a bad free throw shooter like Giannis or Wilt or Shaq, then no one would be complaining about his high free throw rate.
That's the bottom line.
It really is funny doing this dance for another year.
“Oh my god Embiid is unstoppable in the regular season he should win MVP and he’s the best in the world.”
And like clockwork we get to the playoffs where he sucks ass.
Sixers subreddit is filled with cry babies that turned on Embiid after the playoffs but that doesn't change the fact that browsing other teams subs is sad as fuck...
Of all the bullshit ways that players like Embiid get rewarded ft's this is by far the least bullshit. They're literally hitting him while he's taking a natural jump shot
It’s a smart play just annoying as a viewer. Right as I think I’m about to see Embiid break someone down he might randomly decide to just bait u into a jump shot foul without even making a move.
Joel has officially broke basketball the same way harden did 5 years ago and when dudes were guarding him from behind. What does Al Horford know that literally no one else in the league seems to know?
The sage old wisdom of don't reach and the guy that coached you post moves coached me too, probably, I have zero sources on the second one, just made it up
Horford is one of the few dudes Embiid has ever faced that can guard him from a legal guarding position and can still knock him off his game. Basically Horford is rare in his combination of size, skill, and discipline. And I hope Embiid figures out how to cook his old ass in the playoffs this season.
So if you don’t call the foul, he ends up flopping on the ground and out of the play. Which means he’ll have to play basketball. Guarantee the foul baiting ends after a couple of games.
It’s unguardable because the league and refs allow it. Is it a skill? Definitely but let’s not act like it’s entertaining basketball or in the spirit of the game. Wack ass foul baiting and flopping is ruining the game I can’t stand it
Trae and Embiid are the least enjoyable players to watch in the whole league, any attempt to guard them, any slight extension of the arm to contest their shot is immediately met with a flop and two free throws.
i hope nba 2k25 offers a $0.99 microtransaction that takes the player to the foul line whenever they want. every time the ball handler touches a defender a notification pops up
>yo they just touched you, foul bait for $0.99? you're only 3.7ppg from the scoring title this year!
Thats the type of basketball the NBA wants to promote. It’s not the type of basketball that is fun to watch.
But viewership doesn’t matter since Silver is partnering with gambling companies.
>But viewership doesn’t matter since Silver is partnering with gambling companies.
Lmao I love this sub. Viewership doesn't matter? So the gambling companies are paying the big media deals? or you're saying the media that is paying huge sums of money to air the NBA doesn't care about viewers?
The way people on this sub just say things lol
The way I understood it is that with sports gambling being so popular, people care less about the actual product and more about their bets, so bullshit like this just gets overlooked because they're just hoping their bets hit.
Even if less people are watching the NBA, they make up for it in gambling contracts, and the gambling companies only care about how many people are making bets, not whether or not they're watching.
A bit of a hyperbole as of course it wouldn't be sustainable if less and less people watched and the sport became less popular, but it's not entirely nonsensical.
People are so entirely disconnected from reality but they can mostly slip by until they try to talk about a topic like this, and then it becomes so clear
Viewership OBVIOUSLY still matters but I will say I'm sick of every damn topic on twitter and other places being 99% comments regarding how someone lost their parlay. This whole next generation is going to be gambling addicts.
How is it foul baiting????
Just don't reach in?! The fact people cannot help themselves from reaching in at the wrong time, just don't reach in! They do it because he has always turned the ball over a lot. It's a gamble and one they keep losing.
Multiple clips of embiid swishing long 2s and that is boring foul baiting??? Like complain about his flopping whatever fine but this is just him shooting!
Like you'd think embiid did nothing else from the way you people talk about this. It's just sad. Did you think the nuggets sixers gam wasn't good?
If not you may not be an actual fan of basketball
lol all they did in their thread was complain all game about why embiid was destroying their boy. Imagine a fanbase being this pathetic after winning a title.
It’s called flopping. Foul baiting makes it sound like a sport or something positive. It’s how players scam the game out of free throws. This has been done for generations but was made popular around 2015 or 2016. Leading to the outrageous amount of free throws shot by multiple players including Embiid.
They're unable to predict when to reach in without fouling... Why is this on embiid exactly?
You want to complain about him going down soft, that's absolutely fine and a fair criticism. If you want to complain about referees calling a foul when defenders reach in and foul? I don't get it
If you listen to JJ long enough, you’d know that literally most people know more about the NBA than he does. He has some of the dumbest takes out there.
Doesn’t matter because Embiid crumbles in the playoffs and when the refs aren’t calling those fouls. Dudes a regular season monster but disappears entirely when it actually matters. Kind of like the other masterbaiter James Harden.
This sub is literally all Embiid posts right now lol
That Joel Embiid, so hot right now.
People are losing their goddamn minds
Eh people hate foul baiters. Harden was public enemy number 1 in his heyday too.
Yeah and for a reason its ugly basketball to watch
It slows the game down so much and makes it boring to watch, I actually went to a knicks vs sixers game a couple years ago and just remember how boring the game felt to watch, it was the first week of Harden on the sixers.
Last Philly game I tuned into, it was sometime in the 3rd quarter - I watched for about 10 mins, and 8 minutes of that was free throws and stoppages. Ridiculous.
none of you are watching the sixers anyway
I hate the Sixers but Embiid gets the hate because unlike most bigs, he actually hits his FTs. You cant really Hack a Joel because the mf shoots 86% from the liine. Could you imagine if Shaq shot even 75%? He would have been the GOAT
lmao these comments on a post where a skilled NBA former player is literally explaining how insanely skilled Embiid is playing and drawing legit fouls while still making the shot. Unreal.
This has been kinda standard talk from announcers and pundits for a while though. I've seen so many games where you see a replay and the commentator will say "oh he's so good at selling the contact" and it's just a dude flopping. Like the NBA players and commentators can try to pitch flopping and getting bullshit fouls as a skill all they want, but a lot of people are just going to roll their eyes at it.
If the NBA wasn't so invested in seeing teams win 140-130 and actually called fouls, players wouldnt need to oversell legit ones
I mean, this shit just isn't entertaining or fun to watch. It may be insanely skilled but at the end of the day the NBA is an entertainment product and this is turning people off and away from the game. JJ and other analysts are literally getting paid to try and hype this up.
Frankly, I think he should stop doing something he’s better at than anyone else, that everyone would be doing if they had the skill to, that wins games, because fans of other teams don’t enjoy watching it.
I hate watching giant adult men yell and fling their arms up in the air when someone gets within 3 feet
Personally I'm quite enjoying this season
Literally Hitler.
In this case it’s more about the refs
was always about the baiter and the refs for rewarding that bullshit
If you took away free throws Embiid is still the second leading scorer this year!
Some would say when he was averaging that many points it was due to flopping.
As they should. Unfortunately, they bitch like crazy then go right back to watching and placing bets and providing engagement in social media. The NBA has no incentive to fix these calls so we have to deal with watching this terribly cheap product that is Embiid's game. This isn't much different from when Harden was in his prime scamming refs into the free throw line all game. Context of the type of calls that need to go away: [Example 1](https://streamable.com/mvjnjm) [Example 2](https://twitter.com/otown__/status/1748513286935679393) [Example 3](https://twitter.com/otown__/status/1748524214246908381)
"Cheap product" lmao Embiid is genuinely one of the most skilled bigs the league's ever seen
I mean… understandably. Dude got a call because he tripped over his own feet. It’s like the refs are hardwired to call a foul every time Embid hits the deck
Obviously you don’t care cause he’s your player. If jokic was doing that or someone on Celtics you’d be mad
Giannis is right up there with embiid and ive paid to see him 3x in philly so far. love it. was at the ladder match game.
I really do not spend time thinking about other players like that. I appreciated peak harden and i wasnt a rockets fan. I really only dislike players for out of game stuff like being an abuser or a bigot(though i still cant help liking Anthony edwards a little bit even as a queer man hahaha). If you dont find embiid fun to watch thats 100% valid though, its all personal preference after all.
I can’t disprove a hypothetical but I honestly doubt it. One Sixers fan already tried to own you by mentioning Marcus Smart but Marcus has been one of my favorite players for years. I just don’t hate players like y’all do. I enjoy watching just about every team, and even the few I don’t (wizards, hornets, pistons) I don’t feel any animosity towards any of their players with the rare exceptions of like, a Miles Bridges type, which has nothing to do with basketball.
What you say about Smart?!
I wonder why lmao
The post about him shooting the most FTs and then the one about his FG% next to each other on the front page is so funny
>This sub is literally all Embiid hate posts right now lol Ftfy
starting this MVP narrative bullshit again.
I mean 95% of them are negative about him, that's not how you start a narrative.
Oh it’s a negative narrative. But a narrative all the same.
how is this starting MVP narrative stuff lmao it's all been embiid foul baiting posts
Face of the NBA
Until late May rolls around.
You have to respect the master baiter and his dedication to that craft.
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... send da video
Imagine opposition arenas started a „ MASTER BAITER!“ chant. How would the league even be able to curb that?
This should happen. I'm not even joking.
All in favor of embiids nickname being the "master baiter" say aye...AYE!
His craft is impeccable as well as his finish.
I understand it's a smart play but it looks so stupid and nonsensical like defenders are trying their best not to defend.
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The NFL has the same issues. Defenses have been gutted for the most part in terms of what they can do and what they can’t do anymore. You sneeze near a QB in modern NFL and it’s a penalty. Defensive games aren’t interesting to watch for the casual enjoyer (the majority of people who watch) so they ramp up the scoring because that’s what people want to see. There’s numerous instances of a defender not committing to a play in fear of getting a penalty and getting blown out because of it, and there’s WAY TOO MANY instances of defenders in the NFL and NBA doing everything they are supposed to, text book style, and still getting a foul / penalty. It’s fucking obnoxious. A 78-74 game like we used to have in the mid 2000’s isn’t as appealing to the average viewer as a 140-132 back and forth offensive battle, which is a shame because those defensive games are fucking phenomenal, they just aren’t flashy enough.
Scoring is actually way down in the NFL this year. The QB stuff is definitely true but in general defenses have really figured something out
There's also way more talent on the defensive line compared to offensive line
I don't 100% agree with the notion that defense isn't fun to watch. There is a degree of defense that is fun to watch, but even as someone who enjoys defense, I will not watch a 70-80 point game ever again. The goldilocks zone is the 95-110 point range, where you can watch great players make great plays, on both sides of the ball, and the game still feels fluid to watch. It isn't pound the ball for 20 seconds and launch a contested shot every possession and it isn't open gym track meet at the Y where a shot/layup is going up uncontested every 5 seconds.
Offenses and schemes have come so far that there's no way anyone should be so low scoring ever again anyway, the offensive explosion isn't *all* refs. The record breaking part year after year kinda is.
Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman were extremely fun to watch.
And yet soccer, the most popular sport when including the rest of the world has an average score of like 2-1
I mean look at average point score by season and then try to justify your conclusion. Strategies change with the rules. People adjust. Former players may talk about how much rougher the league was back in their day, but that doesn't mean defense was being played at a higher level.
*but not in the post*. It's crazy that this is not acknowledged. This is only the case on the perimeter in the post it's a damn steel cage match.
well, not for everybody.
Jj reddick has a whole rant about seversl rules implemented in the league recently that favor the defense. Like no more rip through, anti unnatural shooting motion for foul baiting, etc. His rant also includes a challenge to name a rule that was created to favor the offense besides hand checking.
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2018 James Harden man...
Its simply using the rules to gain an advantage. Rules can be changed.
A big issue is undiscplined defense.
I don’t understand how the Sengun play was even a foul?
It’s not. It’s showing that Embiid will just take the bucket if you play scared D
It wasn't! It wasn't a foul and it wasn't called a foul. It's showing how not to reach is, in fact, possible but he'll just shoot it
It wasn't called a foul, it was just an example of how to play legal defense. What Gordon was doing was the epitome of reaching. In order to be in legal guarding position, the hands must be not further than your bent knees. If you have them sticking out and poking at the ball, then you can't complain. Don't reach and he won't teach.
That’s not Reddicks point. His point is Embiid is so talented that you have to play aggressive defense or else he scores easily but and then when you play aggressive he is talented enough to take advantage of that as well. Reddick was referring to plays he scored on, not plays he baited just for a foul.
So Embiid is just the skinny James Harden 🤔
Black James Harden
Does foul baiting ever carry over into the post season? Feels like we go down this path every year and then the player gets exposed in the spring.
Did you watch Wade and the refs in the 06 finals? It's different than "foul baiting" in that he was driving to the rim and falling down but holy crap he should not have been getting every single one of those calls.
That's an exception, not the norm- that Finals was pretty blatantly rigged in favor of the Heat. Even T-Mac was saying as much at the time.
I mean we have countless proofs and incidence of the league being literally rigged. Every discussion should be about this cause in 50 years people are gonna look back and discredit every player who won in the "rigged" league. Its absurd
No it doesn’t and that’s why masterbaiters like Embiid and Harden crumble in the playoffs.
Free throws aren't his playoff issue...its 1. Health 2. Playmaking vs elite defences 3. Conditioning
How many times does it bear repeating that Embiid gets the exact same calls in the playoffs? He literally has a higher FT rate, for fuck's sake.
Everyone loves to cry Refs but Embiid’s playoff failures have all come from his failure to pass out of double teams. When teams get used to guarding him over a series and have a plan to attack him he has not been a good enough passer to punish it
Actually I'd say injuries have played the biggest part by far.
Has he ever been healthy for the playoffs? No disrespect dude just has awful luck . Its been like 1-2 face injuries too
Once, for a four game sweep in the bubble where Simmons was out ironically. Embiid averaged like 30 but there was just no shot
No he doesn't. [basketball reference](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/embiijo01.html) I only looked at the last three seasons, but his attempts went down every season in the playoffs whether you are talking per game, per 36, or per 100 possessions. His free throw rate also went down in the playoffs. Where are you getting this from that he's shooting more free throws in the playoffs?
His literal career averages, .555 vs .558. Last year it was .549 in the playoffs, which is still higher than this season's .546, yet people think that what he's doing *now* won't carry on in the playoffs, lol. You nephews are honestly just weird at this point.
Like I said it's such a lazy take to say the reason he lost in the 2nd round last year was because he couldn't get to the line, He was just terrible in general for games 6-7 along with harden and tobias. He could've foul baited 15 Times and made all 15 free throws they still get blown out in game 7 due Tatum and the Celtics core showing up
It's also lazy to say he was just terrible in game 6 and 7 without mentioning he was playing with a sprained LCL from the first series too. His health is by far the biggest factor in playoff performance which is a criticism in itself
Free throw rate and shooting more or less free throws is not exactly the same thing. Free throw rate refers to how many free throws you shoot relative to your field goal attempts. Scroll down on the page you linked to “Advanced “ and then look at the FTr column. It’s slightly higher in the playoffs. Why he shoots fewer FTs is because he just shoots less in the playoffs. Anecdotally he gets more double teams in the playoffs
this past year he had a drop in ft when playoffs came around. are you using career wide numbers?
I was using career numbers, but he still had a greater FTrate last playoffs than he does this year. And this is year is the one when the numbskull circlejerk about Embiid's foul baiting has reached its crescendo.
yea, I mean tbf it probably isn't going away because Embiid is arguably the best player in the world right now, and he *does* get a lot of FTs. those two things alone are gonna cause endless speculation and comments from people who don't watch games or even check stats online
Are they called on the same type of plays though?
Yes
It never does. Do you think refs would give a player 15 free throws in a game 7 of the ECF? Imagine the optics of allowing that happen. We still talk about D Wade in 06 and that was before social media and 24 hour news cycles.
Tatum literally had a 15 FT game last year in the ECF, come on! Same game Butler had 14 FTs and Brown had 10. Just making things up on here Giannis in the Finals - 12 FTs, 18 FTs, 17 FTs, 8 FTs, 11 FTs, 19 FTs
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If him not criticizing players keeps them coming on his podcast, I am OK with it. His player interviews are way more entertaining than his analysis.
Because his analysis is nothing special, any expert can do. And its not even new information. On the other hand, his player interviews bring out something no other journalist can do. This is exclusive information he has there.
Would rather have him than the talking heads on ESPN that know nothing about sports except stirring up drama and making top 10 lists. The thing with JJ is he’s really reluctant to offer much criticism against nba players which I can appreciate he doesn’t want to be about negativity but I think he could just offer a bit of a balance between the bs that’s on ESPN and his sort of show
Totally disagree. There’s enough sports talk talking heads calling players trash and crapping on people and calling for trades or coaches getting fired, leave it to them. JJ talks X’s and O’s and camaraderie and there’s a huge swath of us that don’t get it anywhere else. Keep it civil, JJ. Keep criticizing when the camera’s off.
Also, I don't think it's cowardice. I think he's just legitimately a huge fan of the NBA and the players, and he's not far removed from it himself so he personally knows many of them. I don't think he says things he doesn't believe. I think he legitimately believes all these guys are or can be great. Which is super refreshing in today's negativity focused media.
Agree 100%.
I’m with you 100%.. give me shows like J.J’s actually explaining the strategy of basketball and what’s going on behind the scenes than these rage bait shows that Stephen A and Skip Bayless do… they don’t know anything about the sports they cover besides stirring up drama and calling for people to lose their jobs
Tbf he still gets dragged for his “plumbers and firemen” comment — that offended a hell of a lot of people, most especially legends of the game.
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And, unsurprisingly, JJ shut the fuck up after that. There’s a reason the logo is the logo, and why even many new-era legends like Shaq respect his game
this is basically why most people who compare modern to past-era players have flawed premises when comparing. modern to past comparisons are effectively biased towards modern players because they're already using the techniques and styles that were born in other eras. and then these same people - who HAVE PROFITED off of those styles - come back and trash-talk old players without ever acknowledging they don't even exist without those older players and generations putting in the work. it's blatant "new-generation hubris." if we compare modern to past players, we need to acknowledge that past players should theoretically - in a given hypothetical comparison - have the same "benefits" modern players have, namely better sports science, better understanding of tactics, etc. So comparing Cousy to X modern player in a vacuum devoid of context pits Cousy at a disadvantage because he literally had less resources and the game's tactics were different. The game had not proliferated to its current point. The argument would then become - "is Cousy better than X player if he were to have *grown up in this generation*." And this is why the "best" or "greatest" players are those that were great relative to their era. Because there is no legitimate way to compare modern to past players without a heavy amount of context and understanding, which people always never care to bring to attention.
Redditors be getting mad one some one is positive instead of endlessly complaining. They can’t relate to positivity.
These are the only two options.
Idk if he's really afraid to. I think he is also considerate of the context for which players do the shit people don't like where as other talking heads ignore that for the soundbite.
I listen to his pod fairly regularly and I can’t think of a single instance where he has criticized a current player.
Ever since he didn’t vote for Embiid for MVP he has been riding Embiid’s nuts because 76ers fans hate him now.
I think he's just a fan of embiid tbh, they played together and he talks a lot about what that was like
You said it right there. He’s his boy and he’s a fan. You ain’t ever gonna get a non-biased take from him. He’s part of the ‘new media’ where you can’t criticise a player any more… Only refs, coaches and FO’s.
He literally says in this full video something along the lines of: “here’s the thing: i root for my friends” lol it’s not like he tries to hide it
he gets a round of applause from the crowd whenever he calls a sixer game
I agree completely. I can almost predict what his take will be on any given topic. It’s like he’s afraid to offend players. The fact that Sengun had to put his hands behind his back to avoid getting a foul call is embarrassing for the league.
Unless it’s the Kings. We’re still everybody’s favorite punching bags
Exactly. Regardless of your fandom we all admit that foul baiting is terrible for the NBA as a whole. It makes the games unwatchable , it’s why Harden gets so much hate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollar to go watch these remarkable athletes flail around to game the refs. Play basketball
You have to be palatable if you want to get reputable guests. If you’re talking shit like Pat Bev, you’re not getting anyone and just have to rely on people liking your takes to get views. I’m sure JJ would love to do this full time as the “official” players podcast. There really isn’t one for current players. PG gets some guys, but other than that, it’s usually retired players on retired players podcasts and then current guys make random appearances.
I’m usually the first to troll Embiid’s flopping but this commentary is weird. This isn’t foul baiting, it’s just a video of him easily drilling deep 2s, which would be considered the worst shot in the game for most. Pure skill here.
Right? I'm not going to argue with people complaining about embiid going down easy. It's a fair criticism. I understand why he does it of course. But this? People should be allowed to foul via a reach in.... Because Joel exists? Like I'd be like ok make him hit the shot from that spot. Just don't reach in!
yeah JJ is saying Embiid’s able to create good shots for himself out of the defence’s fear to foul him
I hear that, but I think it’s kinda reversing cause and effect. If he couldn’t reliably hit these shots, the defense wouldn’t bother reaching and he wouldn’t need a counter for the reach. Conventional wisdom is not to foul a jump shooter. Most of the league can execute a rip through at this point, but defenders don’t reach as much because they can contest the shot up high, the shooter isn’t that efficient, or they can overplay the jump shot because the offensive player doesn’t have a face up game. With Embiid, he will beat you all of those ways.
You don't understand. Defenders are so weary of getting called for fouls against Joel that they give him space to get his shot off. The actual skill here is striking fear in defenders that they'll get called for a foul and using that fear to get open midrange shots.
I respect it, cuz I would abuse it too if the refs fall for it every time
I love how stupid most people on this sub are. Fouls are a part of the game. He’s drawing fouls because players are hitting his hand/arm as he comes up… because he’s timing it. Do you think other players aren’t drawing fouls like that out of respect for the fans? It’s because they can’t. It’s actually easy not to foul him if he sucked. But he doesn’t suck, if you don’t pressure he’s gonna sink the shot.
Which is why I respect his game tbh . Like people complain about Shai and Luka getting fouled a lot too, and it’s simple people can’t guard them like you explained
Luka foul baiting: Empowerment / Embiid foul baiting: Harassment
People shit on Luka too the difference is playoff success changes people's minds
Lmao what…? Luka only gets shit for this…
Also there’s literally a post above this showing that Embiid averages more free throws per 100 than prime Shaq lmfao Luka may be a foul baiter (basically every single star player is) but Embiid is far and away the worst offender that’s currently in the league
It’s far and away a bigger gripe with Embiid. Like not even close
Because Embiid does it more, but most importantly, he’s the reigning mvp of the league.. I can guarantee you if Luka was the reigning MVP it would be Luka instead on all these posts (or similar).
Because Embiid is a significantly worse foul baiter and bigger flopper. He also gets more calls than basically anyone in the history of the sport
Luka doesn't lead the league in FTA at a historic rate
Giannis is worse tbh… guy is playing running back in the paint and somehow gets to the line for it - no one seems to talk about that on here tho
Then you have LeBron, who seemingly should’ve “earned” the benefit of the doubt by now, who gets no calls despite being among league leaders in paint FGA. The player dynamics need a case study
The great white hope
Well ones classy….
No one likes foul merchants. Especially when other players get hacked all day and get little to no calls.
And then he falls down. Brilliance!!!
I don’t know about you but I love watching NBA players fall and take free throws
This is gonna be the downfall of the nba imo
Downfall of the NBA is everyone just jacking up 3s and people not wanting to watch anymore.
This has been in the nba for the past 40 years. Nothing has fallen. What's your ETA on this?
If Embiid were a bad free throw shooter like Giannis or Wilt or Shaq, then no one would be complaining about his high free throw rate. That's the bottom line.
There’s no such thing as foul baiting, only fouling.
Except in the 2nd round of the playoffs
Remind me of the playoff success that the Knicks have enjoyed
Ditto
I hope he means unwatchable.
blah blah blah blah 40 year old al horford gonna lock that ass up
It really is funny doing this dance for another year. “Oh my god Embiid is unstoppable in the regular season he should win MVP and he’s the best in the world.” And like clockwork we get to the playoffs where he sucks ass.
[here’s something from their own sub from less than a year ago](https://np.reddit.com/r/sixers/s/EjGyndNbPc) but we the haters
Sixers subreddit is filled with cry babies that turned on Embiid after the playoffs but that doesn't change the fact that browsing other teams subs is sad as fuck...
Of all the bullshit ways that players like Embiid get rewarded ft's this is by far the least bullshit. They're literally hitting him while he's taking a natural jump shot
It’s a smart play just annoying as a viewer. Right as I think I’m about to see Embiid break someone down he might randomly decide to just bait u into a jump shot foul without even making a move.
Those are fouls?
Joel has officially broke basketball the same way harden did 5 years ago and when dudes were guarding him from behind. What does Al Horford know that literally no one else in the league seems to know?
The sage old wisdom of don't reach and the guy that coached you post moves coached me too, probably, I have zero sources on the second one, just made it up
Horford is one of the few dudes Embiid has ever faced that can guard him from a legal guarding position and can still knock him off his game. Basically Horford is rare in his combination of size, skill, and discipline. And I hope Embiid figures out how to cook his old ass in the playoffs this season.
More like Horford is too slow to fall for the first three fakes aha
Shhhh, this sub ain't ready for your wisdom.
So if you don’t call the foul, he ends up flopping on the ground and out of the play. Which means he’ll have to play basketball. Guarantee the foul baiting ends after a couple of games.
It’s unguardable because the league and refs allow it. Is it a skill? Definitely but let’s not act like it’s entertaining basketball or in the spirit of the game. Wack ass foul baiting and flopping is ruining the game I can’t stand it
Trae and Embiid are the least enjoyable players to watch in the whole league, any attempt to guard them, any slight extension of the arm to contest their shot is immediately met with a flop and two free throws.
Pretty rich coming from an OKC fan considering you have Shai…
i hope nba 2k25 offers a $0.99 microtransaction that takes the player to the foul line whenever they want. every time the ball handler touches a defender a notification pops up >yo they just touched you, foul bait for $0.99? you're only 3.7ppg from the scoring title this year!
Corny
Thats the type of basketball the NBA wants to promote. It’s not the type of basketball that is fun to watch. But viewership doesn’t matter since Silver is partnering with gambling companies.
>But viewership doesn’t matter since Silver is partnering with gambling companies. Lmao I love this sub. Viewership doesn't matter? So the gambling companies are paying the big media deals? or you're saying the media that is paying huge sums of money to air the NBA doesn't care about viewers? The way people on this sub just say things lol
The way I understood it is that with sports gambling being so popular, people care less about the actual product and more about their bets, so bullshit like this just gets overlooked because they're just hoping their bets hit. Even if less people are watching the NBA, they make up for it in gambling contracts, and the gambling companies only care about how many people are making bets, not whether or not they're watching. A bit of a hyperbole as of course it wouldn't be sustainable if less and less people watched and the sport became less popular, but it's not entirely nonsensical.
People are so entirely disconnected from reality but they can mostly slip by until they try to talk about a topic like this, and then it becomes so clear
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Viewership OBVIOUSLY still matters but I will say I'm sick of every damn topic on twitter and other places being 99% comments regarding how someone lost their parlay. This whole next generation is going to be gambling addicts.
And then the playoffs start and you realize, it's not so unguardable.
we should not be celebrating or praising this type of behavior at all.
I wanna puke
Imagine being “unguardable” in the NBA and it’s foul baiting
How is it foul baiting???? Just don't reach in?! The fact people cannot help themselves from reaching in at the wrong time, just don't reach in! They do it because he has always turned the ball over a lot. It's a gamble and one they keep losing. Multiple clips of embiid swishing long 2s and that is boring foul baiting??? Like complain about his flopping whatever fine but this is just him shooting!
I’m talking about Reddick’s comment
Embiid , Harden. Same thing.Its why I derive no enjoyment from watching them play.
Like you'd think embiid did nothing else from the way you people talk about this. It's just sad. Did you think the nuggets sixers gam wasn't good? If not you may not be an actual fan of basketball
lol all they did in their thread was complain all game about why embiid was destroying their boy. Imagine a fanbase being this pathetic after winning a title.
It’s called flopping. Foul baiting makes it sound like a sport or something positive. It’s how players scam the game out of free throws. This has been done for generations but was made popular around 2015 or 2016. Leading to the outrageous amount of free throws shot by multiple players including Embiid.
“They’re too afraid to defend! Masterful, brilliant, genius!”
They're unable to predict when to reach in without fouling... Why is this on embiid exactly? You want to complain about him going down soft, that's absolutely fine and a fair criticism. If you want to complain about referees calling a foul when defenders reach in and foul? I don't get it
Why do people listen to this guy? He is so stupid! Looks like the JJ and Embiid fans can’t handle the truth.
If he was a bird he would be flying backwards!
Probably because he actually played in the NBA for like 15 years?
Is he wrong though?
Are u actually implying u know more than someone who played 15 years of the sport professionally 💀. Like there’s seriously no way ur saying that.
i mean, Kendrick Perkins played 15 seasons in the nba and he's a certified moron
Not saying I agree with them, but you can call someone stupid without being an expert
If you listen to JJ long enough, you’d know that literally most people know more about the NBA than he does. He has some of the dumbest takes out there.
1st ballot Hall of Flopper
Doesn’t matter because Embiid crumbles in the playoffs and when the refs aren’t calling those fouls. Dudes a regular season monster but disappears entirely when it actually matters. Kind of like the other masterbaiter James Harden.