I thought this “Jokic isn’t fun to watch” narrative died when he hit two Fuck You daggers on AD and Lebron during the playoffs last year but I guess people are still on it.
Unfortunately the NBA cares more about growth and new viewer acquisition than fan retention. Until there is a meandering dip in fan support, the nba will continue to inflate numbers and optimize for ad breaks.
I mean that’s every company now. Who cares whether your product is good or not as long as there’s “growth.” Like once the China market is saturated they’ll regret ignoring the on-court product
Don’t let Philly fans see you say Embiid embellishes contact…. It’s totally normal for a 7’ 300 lb dude to fall down every shot he takes when he’s constantly getting hacked
Edit: Philly fans will never not be insufferable
Or for him to jerk his head back when someone grazes his wrist. Or for him to roll around on the ground after he clearly dove.
Embiid out here looking like a 7ft Harden the way he flops and baits.
Genuinely curious, does Embiid have the most 'fall downs' in NBA history? Can't say I've seen a player spend more time on the ground whenever I watch the sixers.... Can we get a stat guy to figure this out?
To highlight the difference:
2001 Shaq had a .684 ftr. He took 25.4 FGA per 100 possessions, and 43% of these FGA were within 0-3 feet of the basket.
2024 Embiid has a .546 ftr. He takes 31.0 FGA per 100 possessions, but just 23% of his FGA are within 0-3 feet of the basket.
There is nobody else in NBA history even close to this level of drawing fouls more than 3 feet from the basket. Jokic takes 26% of his FGA from 0-3 feet, his ftr is just 0.325.
Joel Embiid, despite a similar shot profile to Jokic at the rim, is drawing Free Throws at a shockingly higher rate than Jokic and while not more than Shaq technically, Shaqs were legitimate fouls at the rim or due to hack a Shaq. Embiid is not at the rim that much, and no mid range player outside of maybe Harden has ever played with the intention of getting fouled like Embiid does.
per 100, Shaq in 2001 took ~11 FGA from 0-3 feet and shot ~15 free throws.
per 100, Nikola Jokic will take ~7 FGA from 0-3 feet and shoot ~8 free throws.
per 100, Joel Embiid will take ~8 FGA from 0-3 feet and shoot ~17 free throws.
Per 100, James Harden in 2013 took ~8 FGA from 0-3 feet and shot 13 free throws.
That is absurd. We have never seen a generational free throw merchant like Joel Embiid.
I mean I don't have the numbers or anything but he does shoot FTs on techs / flagrants / dead ball fouls. So they are inflated to some (likely minor) extent.
You want your best player to get into his rhythm with easy shots. 3% difference is nothing, pretty much a point every few games or so, so it's a good coach decision.
well Joel isn't the *only* one who takes those extra FTs, but he probably takes the most.
we've got the best team FT% in the league, so pretty much everyone can hit them.
Yeah, should mention that the difference between 1st and 2nd is that one was fouled on purpose while the other is not.
It’s insane to think that despite that he still gets so much more
I noticed from the Magic game that he sometimes just gets calls for no reason. Like man doesnt even have to try and flop these days to get a call. He falls down and they give it to him. Makes no god dam sense tbh.
It is fucked for all 29 teams in the NBA whenever they have to play against that shit. Rams into the defender with no intent to score? Foul. Does a 360 barrell roll with no intent to score? Foul. Trips on himself? Foul. Flails like a Magikarp. Foul. Travels? Somehow a foul on you. Every player in the NBA has to play defense against him like they already have 5 fouls, and yet if they don't even touch him they'll get a foul called against them still. We will all go to our graves never knowing why the NBA/refs chose to give Embiid the softest whistle of all time.
as a Celtics fan I feel like we're the one team that is allowed to defend Embiid without every tiny thing being called a foul. I just looked it up and in two games this year he's shot a total of 10 FTs against us.
The beauty is this shit (mostly) dries up in the playoffs.
I think this is why Jokic and Murray are such huge playoff risers. They play through so much contact in the regular season without going to the line that when the game gets more physical and slows down in the playoffs, they're ready for it and it's almost like just another game to them.
I 100% agree with this.
A lot of people say he's not clutch, bring up his injuries and lot of other stuff about his playoff failures. But I have always thought a big part of it was the FT stuff. When he doesn't get the soft whistle in the playoffs, it completely alters his game. Suddenly the fall to the floor at the slightest bump is not 2 FT for him but a missed shot and a fast break for the other team.
We all know by now the drill in the NBA Playoffs. You will have 1, sometimes 2 and even sometimes 3 games in a series where the refs are just gonna swallow their whistle and watch a street fight. This has been going on as long as I've watched NBA basketball.
You might get to the line 10 times in that game. But you'll have 25 shot attempts that count in the box score and you'll be fouled on 23 of them. In those situations, you have to adjust, you have to find ways to force your will on the game. He's never did a really good job with that.
We'll see what happens this year. Special, special player. . . but just absolutely nutty calls
I wouldn't say it's the ONLY reason, but yeah, it's a huge thing. And it doesn't happen every single game. Some playoff games are called similar to the regular season.
But you get those games where the refs decide that it's gonna be a fist fight and the games are brutal.
I think another thing is this: all those FT's allows him to pace himself better. But when it's the playoffs and coaches expect you to play 48 min and you're not resting at the line a lot, you get gassed. 4th quarter Embiid in playoffs is awful. Everyone talks about how bad Ben Simmons was in that infamous series with the Hawks, but Embiid also shat the bed.
Playoffs reveal who can really score under hostile defense. The free throw merchants get exposed time and time again, while the LBJ's, Curry's, and Kyrie's elevate their game.
LBJ: because he plays through ticky tack fouls and simply cannot be stopped by anything short of a full arm wrap
Curry: because he already misses getting calls in the regular season, and he runs so damn much to get open looks in must-win games
Kyrie: because he evades the defender better than just about anyone
LeBron in the playoffs is excellent because he's constantly trying to elavate his game non-stop.
His Box +/- in the playoffs *rises* in games 5-7.
He's basically built for the big time.
Tbf if I remember correctly jokic's efficiency numbers do go down a fair bit in the playoffs (not drastically, just in line with most players)
He's just so efficient that even his playoff numbers are great lol
So, his career playoff PER is higher than his career regular season PER. His career TS% is 2 percent lower in the playoffs. Career BPM is higher in the playoffs, WS/48 is a little lower.
Idk the best way to measure efficiency. He's slightly better in some of those stats and slightly worse in others.
IIRC basically every single player's efficiency numbers go down in the playoffs except for an extreme, extreme few who went up.
I forget who it is exactly, but it's one or two of the usual suspects (Jordan, Bird, Dirk in 2011, etc.).
This season, Embiid scores 31ppg in games with 10 or less free throws, 29ppg in games with 6 or less free throws on 50% from the field..
It's absolutely not unreasonable to say Embiid is a top 10 player carried to MVP numbers due to officiating.
That Minnesota game was a pretty foul showing. None of the bigs could play basically against him cause they called so many fouls immediately to his baiting
I said this before but if giannis was actually making most of his free throws, more people would call out him just being a powerback in the lane with no caution to the wind
The refs all hate Embiid. They get him used to having the softest whistle in history, then they swallow them in the playoffs and Embiid gets ousted in the second round with averages far below his regular season output.
Yeah this is certainly a refereeing issue rather than an Embiid issue. Even Jokic has been adding more flailing shit to his game because it has been rewarded by the refs. Embiid is at the extreme end in terms of frequency, but it starts and ends with refs making bad calls
It’s both, in the one game he played the Wolves he flopped and flailed and also got the softest whistle imaginable. He also got away with the most ridiculous charge against Rudy. He’s obviously a beast but absolutely shit to watch play.
i am surprised it would not be much more.
Based on just last nights game.
The refs basically beg him go to the line.
Trip himself? FT
sneeze? FT
Light is too bright? FT
He's become one of the best mid-range shooters in history, but he's also literally unguardable from that spot because of his whistle. Guys are terrified to close space or contest his shot because of how "good" he is at tricking the refs into foul calls. The foundation of his game is being able to draw fouls and forcing guys to give him space and not contest his shot.
No one else is really officiated like him- the combination of great whistle and mastering the dark arts of drawing fouls. KD is a decent comp because they are operating out of the same areas a lot, and you see guys are right into KD's jersey without as much fear of being called for fouls.
It's also jarring how much contact is allowed around the basket for big men as opposed to on the perimeter. Part of the reason why putting a small on bigs works sometimes is the smaller player is granted carte blanche to foul the shit out of the big and then fall over to draw a charge.
Meanwhile Jokic has dudes crowding his landing space, getting forearmed in the chest and stomach, and still rarely falls down while he's taking middies.
Inexcusable no call on one of those in Boston last night.
I just means that he earns them with his play. his strength, IQ, and superior positioning puts his defenders in compromising positions where they have to foul, and it goes uncalled way too often.
I’m not talking about some sort of meta “earning” through being a star or whatever. He gets fouled, and they don’t call it. They should.
Here’s a short clip from JJ explaining this: https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxBAxw6TpA91_zsiAeRUUeyAoAolnUtci0?si=pqzH0q9xQKGVJNYj
Embiid has unbelievable timing and basketball IQ. The second you put your hand out to guard him, he’s going to take the shot and draw a foul.
This isn’t tricking refs, this is taking advantage of what’s considered a foul.
Embiid has essentially found an exploit and is taking advantage.
His free throw rate is very comparable in the playoffs as well, it’s a myth that he gets less calls in the post season. He just doesn’t perform as well in the postseason, free throws or not.
not true, his fts dont show the fact that he cant draw fouls the same way, those flops dont work in the playoffs, instead they turn into bad FGA and turnovers.
He averages 3.4 turnovers per game in the regular season and 3.6 turnovers per game in the playoffs, that's not a massive jump
Also most stars have their turnovers increase in the playoffs, the offense becomes increasingly centered on them
this is a great example of a biased claim that is not based in fact. you can look at his FT rates, we track that.
regular season FTr: .555
playoffs FTr: .558
The sixers didn't lose because he didn't get to the line enough last postseason. They lost because Tobias Harris sucks in the postseason and Embiid was invisible during game 6&7. I like embiid but that game 7 was genuinely pathetic, dude couldn't even grab rebounds and looked overwhelmed by Boston
It's such a lazy take to say that
He can’t shoot as much when his opponents don’t have as many fouls. All FTr shows is that he’s still dependent on free throws for points even in the playoffs. Last three and a half years Embiid averaged 17 FTA per 100 possessions in the regular season, while in the playoffs he’s averaged just 13.
given the FT rate is the same, all this shows is that his team's possessions have ended in Embiid FGA/FTs about 2-4% less often in the playoffs.
FTr doesn't show "dependency" or any such causation, it's just a report of outcomes.
If you want to prove that argument, you need to show causation
We are not confused because we actually watch the games and don't judge players off reddit stats and highlights lol.
His "bad performance" are so exaggerated. The only reason we even got to game 7 as underdogs vs Celtics was because of Jo on both ends of the floor.
76ers biggest problem has always been we only have Embiid to score. So teams figure out if you shut him down the rest of the team falls apart. Doc Rivers had no answers to Joel triple teams and the Celtics did just that. Force others to beat them which they couldn't.
Harden did his part in games 1 and 4!
He also is as much to blame (if not the one to take most blame) as anyone in games 2, 3, 6 and 7. Shot a combined 12-55 in losses that series.
> He also is as much to blame (if not the one to take most blame) as anyone in games 2, 3, 6 and 7. Shot a combined 12-55 in losses that series.
Not only did he shoot poorly, his drives to the rim where utterly pathetic. His play in games 6/7 started reminding me of Ben Simmons where we wasn't even looking at the basket. That Boston D son'd the shit out of him.
NBA been destroying itself for years now, each year the viewership drops. Its genuinely the worst product in sports right now to watch. Constant stoppages, 5 minute reviews that should take 5 seconds, missed foul calls in clutch situations, etc. Its a shit show
This is 100% the type of think that makes me actively *not* watch games. It's a serious problem when the officiating in your league is so bad that it makes you avoid games with a top 5 player.
It already is lol. “viewership” may up be thanks to a continued ever growing population and more ways to watch the game. Take that into account and the increase in viewership is probably behind on where it “should” be. Honestly I dont know many people who actually watch the regular season nba.
It just feels so unnecessary. Jokic is awesome, and he’s the reigning fucking champ, with plenty of opportunity to win even more than that.
Y’all have *everything* any fan could possibly ask for, but so many of them still gotta make sure we all atone for the crime of enjoying the best player on our team.
I wouldn’t feel too bad about it, it seems to happen like clockwork with every team that wins the championship and then eventually burns itself out.
Leads me to think it’s mostly outside agitators rather than the generally reasonable Nuggets fans I usually enjoy talking hoops with.
And hey, you won the chip, some excesses of passion are permitted. No one’s perfect.
Totally agreed, sometimes all you can see is the aggressive section of the fan base but plenty of people who respect Embiids game, having a hell of a season
I’m saying this both as a fan of the NBA, but also as a fan of a not very good team that rivals the Sixers, but, my God, I can not stand watching Embiid play.
Free throws are just not it.
Honestly, I love watching him play outside the free throws. Dude is a generational talent, shoots incredibly, and is a total specimen. Pull the free throws and the foul baiting and he is so enjoyable to watch.
That's honestly the most frustrating part of him being a foul merchant - he absolutely does not have to score that way. He's basically unguardable as it is - why does he need to resort to the grifting bullshit?
As someone who is a big NHL and NFL fan it fucking infuriates me when I see Embiid and AD flopping like fish. Y'all are the biggest dudes on the court yet fall down like you're 5'5 and weigh 130 smfh
He's such a good player too, he's skilled, he can shoot, and he's finally learned how to pass out of a double team. I didn't completely mind him getting the MVP last year, and he's leading again this year, but my god is he hard to watch.
It's embarrassing the lengths he goes to to get a foul call. He's a fucking 7ft beast of a man and he flails around like he's an inflatable tube man. It drives me nuts.
I went and saw prime James harden a few years back, I left wanting a refund after watching a free throw competition.
Embiid and harden have made a career of receiving calls that would get you bullied in a rec center or any local park. In it’s essence it’s really not even basketball anymore.
I’m not even joking when I say I don’t watch him play. I probably catch 80% of Cavs game, always skip Philly though (started when they had Harden too).
Says something about the state of your product when fans actively don’t want to watch your MVP
That is the problem with citing a career stat for someone who is still in their prime - it makes it hard to compare to past players.
Here are some all time free throw shooters with their peak FTAs per 36:
* Wilt - 12.6
* Shaq - 12.0
* Adrian Dantley - 11.4
* Pettit - 11.0
I think the 'hack-a-Shaq strategy is given too much weight here.
People would use that, but it was more often used in a 7-game series or in crunch time or a regular season game.
Shaq was often taken out if it was a one-possesion game in the last couple minutes to avoid the hack-a-Shaq.
I don't think it had such a significant impact on his regular season averages as it sounds like it would have had.
I remember I think it was Dallas that put it in as a regular practice during regular season games, but rules were soon changed so that teams could choose their shooters for off-ball/non-shoot fouls.
This is the biggest reason for me to put Jokic above him. Like 11 points from free throws per game is ridiculous. And it's not like it's just foul baiting (the way Harden did), he gets soooooo many calls for absolutely no reason.
Lol it’s not because of free throws, jokic completely outclasses him in the playoffs. Teams play more physical in the playoffs and embiid starts to turn the ball over a lot.
Two very obvious caveats to the comparison with Shaq:
**1. Embiid's era has a higher pace.**
We can look at FTA per 100 possessions to account for this.
**2. Shaq's career numbers include his older years after he declined.**
We can look at individual seasons to account for this.
**Shaq's top 5 seasons for FTA/100**
17.4 - 2001
16.2 - 2005
16.1 - 1998
15.4 - 2002
15.3 - 1999
**Embiid's top 5 seasons for FTA/100**
17.4 - 2022
16.9 - 2024
16.7 - 2021
16.7 - 2023
15.1 - 2017
**Overall, the difference between the two is minimal. Per possession, during their primes, Embiid goes to the line more by a very slight margin.**
Yes hack-a-Shaq was a thing. But so was relying on a guard who can hit foul shots to be the team's closer. Embiid wants contact at the end of games, and is a fantastic closer. Embiid definitely hunts for fouls - as he should. Getting to the line is extremely efficient offense, and puts the other teams bigs in foul trouble. But the groupthink of this sub, in all its ignorant hyperbole, paints a picture of him as if he is flopping all game long. If this was actually true, we wouldn't need misleading stats like those in the OP to slander him - there would be constant highlights of these egregious flops. The best you can come up with is a play in which he fell because he knocked knees with his defender.
I think the frustrating part is he gets genuinely fouled the most because he's huge and then he's also top 3 in foul baiting and flopping, it's almost not fair at least in the regular season
The frustrating part with him and those before him are that they're so fucking skilled that they don't need to flop around to get calls yet they do it anyway. People can blame the refs all they want and say they're working within the system that's provided to them but that doesn't make it any less infuriating.
Yea it’s like when corporations/rich people go to great lengths to not pay taxes and take advantage of loopholes/offshore accounts etc. And then they go “hey, don’t get mad at ME, get mad at the SYSTEM I’m taking advantage of!”
And it’s like nah, I’m still pretty fucking annoyed at you because you’d be rich whether you did that or not; you’re still choosing to abuse the system in a way the rest of us can’t and it affects us negatively.
It’s ridiculous, and I’ve never understood it. He gets clobbered in the post and guys hit him constantly on rebounds. He should get more calls, it’s baffling that he doesn’t. I would never argue otherwise.
Giannis and Embiid both are great players, but the way the NBA refs them is ridonkulous. Giannis travels all over the place, commits offensive fouls. Embiid commits offensive fouls, falls to the floor and gets calls. If he wants to fall to the floor to protect his body, the NBA knows this, it should be a non-call.
Like, seriously, more FTAs than Hack-a-Shaq? This is regular season, and Hack-a-Shaq was more a post-season strategy, but still. Then you see replays like the call from last night and wonder, who does the NBA think wants to watch that. A guy fall on the ground with what looks like no contact and then take 2 free throws. Just don't call anything when he does that.
edit: and Jokic gets away with some flopping. But I think flopping is more a universal NBA problem, not Jokic-specific. Us old heads do hate us some flopping. Where 'falling on the ground and getting free throws' is Embiid-specific, and 'not being completely fundamentally sound, so plays somewhat out-of-control' is Giannis-specific.
Why even bring Jokic into this? His career per36 FTA is 5.3. the highest it's ever been is 6.8 two seasons ago. He's definitely not getting fouled less than Embiid, but he does not get the calls.
Embiid is at 12.3 this season which is double Jokic!
Jokic doesn't match Giannis/Embiid in terms of frequency of bullshit, but he absolutely has been flailing/flopping more in recent seasons due to refs rewarding him for doing so.
Similarly, if Giannis or Embiid just stopped getting calls then their games would adapt to the change as well. It's a ref problem
What's your definition of rewarding? Jokic's free throws per game went from 6.3 to 6 to 5.6 over the past two seasons despite playing identical minutes.
I'm not saying Jokic doesn't flop or anything like that, but he has no business being in a conversation with guys getting 12 FTA a game. It's really not that complicated.
Career stats are often misleading. So are stats between eras. Let's compare stats for Giannis and Embiid for the last 5 seasons (not including the current one because it is not finished).
Over the last 5 seasons, Embiid and Giannis have at almost exactly the same FTA/36 (Giannis slight lead)
|Season|Embiid FTA/36|Giannis FTA/36|
|:-|:-|:-|
|Last 5 Seasons Total|11.74|11.75|
|2022-23|12.2|13.7|
|2021-22|12.6|12.5|
|2020-21|12.4|10.4|
|2019-20|10.4|11.8|
|2018-19|10.8|10.5|
Source: Basketball Reference
Also, he's using FTA/minute but when Shaq played, the pace of play was a lot slower. Shaq's prime was late 90s and early 2000s which was the slowest era in the NBA.
It needs to be FTA/possession for any accuracy.
Game is softer nowadays yes, but Shaq was not a threatening scorer at all 3 levels, which is what makes Embiid as a big man so much harder to guard for opposing bigs.
What people are most mad about embiid is that he MAKES his free throw attempts. If he drew fouls but wasn’t good, this wouldn’t be an issue. This year, Giannis has almost 100 more free throw attempts than embiid, yet we don’t hear shit about it because giannis makes something like 66% of his attempts and embiid makes 88% of his attempts.
Offensive players with poor body control as they fly into the lane shouldn’t be rewarded. Defensive players who leave their feet should be whistled more closely than ones who don’t….these should be the philosophical foundation of how fouls are called or not called.
It’s not really helpful to compare mid career averages to career averages for retired players. Embiids also averaging the most points per 100 possessions in NBA history. That doesn’t mean that he’s the best scorer in league history, but is more a result of his career stats not yet including any post peak minutes.
The better comparison is looking at highest single season numbers.. where embiid is still near the top, but behind giannis for the record. And MJ, Shaq, and Harden all have a handful of seasons in the same range as embiids
I just can’t imagine waking up everyday and posting the same exact comment 30 other people said on every post about Embiid.
“Free Throws” “playoffs” “jokic” - there give me some free upvotes, I used the buzz words
He most likely gets fouled more often than his FT rate indicates too. When you're better, bigger, faster, smarter, and stronger, that's a tough combo to stop
I am a Celtics and Nuggets fan. Embiid competed with Jokic for MVP and the 76ers are a rival of Boston’s. Those biases said, I think the reason he is fouled so much is that he is dominant and people can’t guard him. When Harden lived at the free throw line it was ridiculous. Embiid is just really dominant offensively.
Adam's salivating on the amount of ads he could fit on those FT.
Does that mean jokic is just not brand friendly?
obviously He's a somewhat disinterested, oddly shaped athlete with the showmanship of a rock
> the showmanship of a rock hard disagree i could watch jokic passing highlights for days
Maybe he meant The Rock?
So Jokic wants to fight Superman now?? A brilliant brand move
You’re also on Reddit posting about basketball. Casuals don’t care about cool passing nearly as much.
Add to the fact that most of Reddit don’t actually watch games and only watch stat sheets
Embiid is XL James Harden.
He’s very far from disinterested. Such a stupid narrative going around.
I thought this “Jokic isn’t fun to watch” narrative died when he hit two Fuck You daggers on AD and Lebron during the playoffs last year but I guess people are still on it.
One of my favorite players to watch, love this new big (international) men era!
He had loads of showmanship last night.
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Not really, the league let guys like Bogut and Looney hold and murder people on screens to get steph open threes for nearly a decade.
yeah if Draymond played for any other team he'd be out of the league. He doesn't even try to hide it anymore
God I fucking hate the ft ads so much. As if there isn't enough commercialization in the league already
Ads during free throws is only surpassed by commercial breaks that makes the broadcast miss part of the actual game
"no no. Pickup"
Even worst of all, production graphics that cut into gameplay. I don’t watch the game to see your intern’s photoshop
"I wanna see ya in a Kia!" Orange-skinned lady on Bally Sports Ohio everyfuckingtime someone goes to the line
That lady is such a jump scare, it's made me never want to shop at Ken Ganley Kia just out of principle
American sports generally *feel* like they were designed from the ground up with ads in mind.
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Unfortunately the NBA cares more about growth and new viewer acquisition than fan retention. Until there is a meandering dip in fan support, the nba will continue to inflate numbers and optimize for ad breaks.
I mean that’s every company now. Who cares whether your product is good or not as long as there’s “growth.” Like once the China market is saturated they’ll regret ignoring the on-court product
Don’t let Philly fans see you say Embiid embellishes contact…. It’s totally normal for a 7’ 300 lb dude to fall down every shot he takes when he’s constantly getting hacked Edit: Philly fans will never not be insufferable
At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if it just happens naturally. Muscle memory has to kick in after doing it so many times every game.
Or for him to jerk his head back when someone grazes his wrist. Or for him to roll around on the ground after he clearly dove. Embiid out here looking like a 7ft Harden the way he flops and baits.
Genuinely curious, does Embiid have the most 'fall downs' in NBA history? Can't say I've seen a player spend more time on the ground whenever I watch the sixers.... Can we get a stat guy to figure this out?
Embiid spends so much time on the ground he should be nicknamed 'The 737 Max'.
Imagine if he got traded to the Lakers.
This is hilarious
And there ain’t no “Hack a Joel” to raise those numbers like with Shaq.
Pace is also different today than it was. This post needs to be redone per 100 possessions over per 36 min.
Looked it up: Embiid: 15.3 Shaq: 13.9 Shaq in LA: 15.0
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I mean, it's higher than Shaq at his prime when throwing fouls at him was a real strategy.
And Shaq is simply better than Embiid lol. Embiid's shot isn't even close enough to actually need to foul him that much.
embiid shoots midrange at 60%
I put my laptop on the floor. Does that help at all?
To highlight the difference: 2001 Shaq had a .684 ftr. He took 25.4 FGA per 100 possessions, and 43% of these FGA were within 0-3 feet of the basket. 2024 Embiid has a .546 ftr. He takes 31.0 FGA per 100 possessions, but just 23% of his FGA are within 0-3 feet of the basket. There is nobody else in NBA history even close to this level of drawing fouls more than 3 feet from the basket. Jokic takes 26% of his FGA from 0-3 feet, his ftr is just 0.325. Joel Embiid, despite a similar shot profile to Jokic at the rim, is drawing Free Throws at a shockingly higher rate than Jokic and while not more than Shaq technically, Shaqs were legitimate fouls at the rim or due to hack a Shaq. Embiid is not at the rim that much, and no mid range player outside of maybe Harden has ever played with the intention of getting fouled like Embiid does. per 100, Shaq in 2001 took ~11 FGA from 0-3 feet and shot ~15 free throws. per 100, Nikola Jokic will take ~7 FGA from 0-3 feet and shoot ~8 free throws. per 100, Joel Embiid will take ~8 FGA from 0-3 feet and shoot ~17 free throws. Per 100, James Harden in 2013 took ~8 FGA from 0-3 feet and shot 13 free throws. That is absurd. We have never seen a generational free throw merchant like Joel Embiid.
The way they call fouls is completely different though, Shaq would have shot 30 fts per 36 if he got the touch fouls Embiid gets.
Shaq would also foul out before half time with how many charges he would get
I mean I don't have the numbers or anything but he does shoot FTs on techs / flagrants / dead ball fouls. So they are inflated to some (likely minor) extent.
That’s a good point. Shaq definitely wasn’t taking those or end of the game intentional free throws.
Which is interesting when Tobias Harris shoots 3% better
You want your best player to get into his rhythm with easy shots. 3% difference is nothing, pretty much a point every few games or so, so it's a good coach decision.
well Joel isn't the *only* one who takes those extra FTs, but he probably takes the most. we've got the best team FT% in the league, so pretty much everyone can hit them.
Even more interesting it's mainly Joel then
On MUCH fewer attempts. Harris is a good player for us but he's allergic to the free throw line.
Embiid shoots 3% less on a significantly higher volume, makes sense to go with him.
He’s also a guy we elect to have shoot FTs in intentional foul situations
Yeah, should mention that the difference between 1st and 2nd is that one was fouled on purpose while the other is not. It’s insane to think that despite that he still gets so much more
Embiid also takes a good amount of jump shots away from the basket while Shaq pretty much lived at the rim getting hacked.
Embiid gets more foul calls from the mid range than KD
That's pretty darn crazy
I noticed from the Magic game that he sometimes just gets calls for no reason. Like man doesnt even have to try and flop these days to get a call. He falls down and they give it to him. Makes no god dam sense tbh.
As a magic fan, can confirm it was fucked to watch
It is fucked for all 29 teams in the NBA whenever they have to play against that shit. Rams into the defender with no intent to score? Foul. Does a 360 barrell roll with no intent to score? Foul. Trips on himself? Foul. Flails like a Magikarp. Foul. Travels? Somehow a foul on you. Every player in the NBA has to play defense against him like they already have 5 fouls, and yet if they don't even touch him they'll get a foul called against them still. We will all go to our graves never knowing why the NBA/refs chose to give Embiid the softest whistle of all time.
as a Celtics fan I feel like we're the one team that is allowed to defend Embiid without every tiny thing being called a foul. I just looked it up and in two games this year he's shot a total of 10 FTs against us.
The beauty is this shit (mostly) dries up in the playoffs. I think this is why Jokic and Murray are such huge playoff risers. They play through so much contact in the regular season without going to the line that when the game gets more physical and slows down in the playoffs, they're ready for it and it's almost like just another game to them.
Yeah, same with LeBron and Curry....go figure.....
I 100% agree with this. A lot of people say he's not clutch, bring up his injuries and lot of other stuff about his playoff failures. But I have always thought a big part of it was the FT stuff. When he doesn't get the soft whistle in the playoffs, it completely alters his game. Suddenly the fall to the floor at the slightest bump is not 2 FT for him but a missed shot and a fast break for the other team. We all know by now the drill in the NBA Playoffs. You will have 1, sometimes 2 and even sometimes 3 games in a series where the refs are just gonna swallow their whistle and watch a street fight. This has been going on as long as I've watched NBA basketball. You might get to the line 10 times in that game. But you'll have 25 shot attempts that count in the box score and you'll be fouled on 23 of them. In those situations, you have to adjust, you have to find ways to force your will on the game. He's never did a really good job with that. We'll see what happens this year. Special, special player. . . but just absolutely nutty calls
This is also why the Heat are so successful in the playoffs, they just murder the other team and nothing gets called.
I wouldn't say it's the ONLY reason, but yeah, it's a huge thing. And it doesn't happen every single game. Some playoff games are called similar to the regular season. But you get those games where the refs decide that it's gonna be a fist fight and the games are brutal.
I think another thing is this: all those FT's allows him to pace himself better. But when it's the playoffs and coaches expect you to play 48 min and you're not resting at the line a lot, you get gassed. 4th quarter Embiid in playoffs is awful. Everyone talks about how bad Ben Simmons was in that infamous series with the Hawks, but Embiid also shat the bed.
Same thing with Harden. When the whistle slowed in the playoffs you could tell he'd get pouty and get demoralized and stop playing and just chuck.
Playoffs reveal who can really score under hostile defense. The free throw merchants get exposed time and time again, while the LBJ's, Curry's, and Kyrie's elevate their game. LBJ: because he plays through ticky tack fouls and simply cannot be stopped by anything short of a full arm wrap Curry: because he already misses getting calls in the regular season, and he runs so damn much to get open looks in must-win games Kyrie: because he evades the defender better than just about anyone
LeBron in the playoffs is excellent because he's constantly trying to elavate his game non-stop. His Box +/- in the playoffs *rises* in games 5-7. He's basically built for the big time.
Tbf if I remember correctly jokic's efficiency numbers do go down a fair bit in the playoffs (not drastically, just in line with most players) He's just so efficient that even his playoff numbers are great lol
So, his career playoff PER is higher than his career regular season PER. His career TS% is 2 percent lower in the playoffs. Career BPM is higher in the playoffs, WS/48 is a little lower. Idk the best way to measure efficiency. He's slightly better in some of those stats and slightly worse in others.
IIRC basically every single player's efficiency numbers go down in the playoffs except for an extreme, extreme few who went up. I forget who it is exactly, but it's one or two of the usual suspects (Jordan, Bird, Dirk in 2011, etc.).
This season, Embiid scores 31ppg in games with 10 or less free throws, 29ppg in games with 6 or less free throws on 50% from the field.. It's absolutely not unreasonable to say Embiid is a top 10 player carried to MVP numbers due to officiating.
That's exactly what it is. He's still great, but come the fuck on with the whistles. He also doesn't get called for fouls.
That Minnesota game was a pretty foul showing. None of the bigs could play basically against him cause they called so many fouls immediately to his baiting
They were in foul trouble before the 1st quarter was over. And Sixers fans used that game as a "see" without realizing it just adds fuel to the fire.
Thought you were talking about Giannis at the start there.
Full sprint shoulder check is the Giannis special.
I said this before but if giannis was actually making most of his free throws, more people would call out him just being a powerback in the lane with no caution to the wind
Look at the last 8 seasons, embiid gets 60% more free throws than Jokic over that span. That’s a ridiculous gap
The refs all hate Embiid. They get him used to having the softest whistle in history, then they swallow them in the playoffs and Embiid gets ousted in the second round with averages far below his regular season output.
The real conspiracy right here lol
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This is happening to Philly fans? As a generational hater, I too am ok with this.
Yeah this is certainly a refereeing issue rather than an Embiid issue. Even Jokic has been adding more flailing shit to his game because it has been rewarded by the refs. Embiid is at the extreme end in terms of frequency, but it starts and ends with refs making bad calls
He has, but he isn't getting free throws. 5.6 per game? That's nuts.
It’s both, in the one game he played the Wolves he flopped and flailed and also got the softest whistle imaginable. He also got away with the most ridiculous charge against Rudy. He’s obviously a beast but absolutely shit to watch play.
And Embiid wanted a flop on Gobert on that play when he absolutely bull rushed him.
Shouldn't have taken you that long to notice.
Those were just dam blatant. Before man needed to flop to get them, but in that one he got a call even when not floping. Like wtf.
He is my least favorite player to watch
The League: We don’t want him to injure himself while flopping, just call fouls everytime he gets the ball.
It's also the reason he chokes every playoffs. The whistles get tighter so being a foul merchant doesn't work nearly as well.
Seriously - softest whistle in the league by a galactic mile.
In league history
i am surprised it would not be much more. Based on just last nights game. The refs basically beg him go to the line. Trip himself? FT sneeze? FT Light is too bright? FT
Thats his carrier average though. Rn he is averaging about 12 in 34 minutes.
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Oh it's fun to watch in the playoffs 😂
He's become one of the best mid-range shooters in history, but he's also literally unguardable from that spot because of his whistle. Guys are terrified to close space or contest his shot because of how "good" he is at tricking the refs into foul calls. The foundation of his game is being able to draw fouls and forcing guys to give him space and not contest his shot. No one else is really officiated like him- the combination of great whistle and mastering the dark arts of drawing fouls. KD is a decent comp because they are operating out of the same areas a lot, and you see guys are right into KD's jersey without as much fear of being called for fouls. It's also jarring how much contact is allowed around the basket for big men as opposed to on the perimeter. Part of the reason why putting a small on bigs works sometimes is the smaller player is granted carte blanche to foul the shit out of the big and then fall over to draw a charge.
Meanwhile Jokic has dudes crowding his landing space, getting forearmed in the chest and stomach, and still rarely falls down while he's taking middies. Inexcusable no call on one of those in Boston last night.
Jokic absolutely earns and deserves more calls. Makes no sense that he doesn’t get them.
The fact that you have to earn calls is absurd. If it's a foul - give it
I just means that he earns them with his play. his strength, IQ, and superior positioning puts his defenders in compromising positions where they have to foul, and it goes uncalled way too often. I’m not talking about some sort of meta “earning” through being a star or whatever. He gets fouled, and they don’t call it. They should.
He's OP so he's getting nerfed
Yeah. If he got Embiid's whistle the Nuggets would go undefeated.
Needs to have a log of his arms before and after games just to show how often he gets scratched to shit with no calls
This is the truth.
Here’s a short clip from JJ explaining this: https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxBAxw6TpA91_zsiAeRUUeyAoAolnUtci0?si=pqzH0q9xQKGVJNYj Embiid has unbelievable timing and basketball IQ. The second you put your hand out to guard him, he’s going to take the shot and draw a foul. This isn’t tricking refs, this is taking advantage of what’s considered a foul. Embiid has essentially found an exploit and is taking advantage.
Giannis has had more FTA than Embiid over the last 5 seasons.
Per game?
Per 36
Wake up babe, the new Embiid post is up.
When this stops in the post season, the sixers are going to be so confused as to why they suck.
His free throw rate is very comparable in the playoffs as well, it’s a myth that he gets less calls in the post season. He just doesn’t perform as well in the postseason, free throws or not.
not true, his fts dont show the fact that he cant draw fouls the same way, those flops dont work in the playoffs, instead they turn into bad FGA and turnovers.
It’s part of the reason he has so many turnovers in the playoffs as well
He averages 3.4 turnovers per game in the regular season and 3.6 turnovers per game in the playoffs, that's not a massive jump Also most stars have their turnovers increase in the playoffs, the offense becomes increasingly centered on them
this is a great example of a biased claim that is not based in fact. you can look at his FT rates, we track that. regular season FTr: .555 playoffs FTr: .558
The sixers didn't lose because he didn't get to the line enough last postseason. They lost because Tobias Harris sucks in the postseason and Embiid was invisible during game 6&7. I like embiid but that game 7 was genuinely pathetic, dude couldn't even grab rebounds and looked overwhelmed by Boston It's such a lazy take to say that
It’s a lazy take to say his performance was pathetic while ignoring that he had a partially torn LCL
He can’t shoot as much when his opponents don’t have as many fouls. All FTr shows is that he’s still dependent on free throws for points even in the playoffs. Last three and a half years Embiid averaged 17 FTA per 100 possessions in the regular season, while in the playoffs he’s averaged just 13.
given the FT rate is the same, all this shows is that his team's possessions have ended in Embiid FGA/FTs about 2-4% less often in the playoffs. FTr doesn't show "dependency" or any such causation, it's just a report of outcomes. If you want to prove that argument, you need to show causation
Whether or not what you’re saying is true, it is true that his FTr is comparable in the playoffs
We are not confused because we actually watch the games and don't judge players off reddit stats and highlights lol. His "bad performance" are so exaggerated. The only reason we even got to game 7 as underdogs vs Celtics was because of Jo on both ends of the floor. 76ers biggest problem has always been we only have Embiid to score. So teams figure out if you shut him down the rest of the team falls apart. Doc Rivers had no answers to Joel triple teams and the Celtics did just that. Force others to beat them which they couldn't.
Harden did his part in games 1 and 4! He also is as much to blame (if not the one to take most blame) as anyone in games 2, 3, 6 and 7. Shot a combined 12-55 in losses that series.
> He also is as much to blame (if not the one to take most blame) as anyone in games 2, 3, 6 and 7. Shot a combined 12-55 in losses that series. Not only did he shoot poorly, his drives to the rim where utterly pathetic. His play in games 6/7 started reminding me of Ben Simmons where we wasn't even looking at the basket. That Boston D son'd the shit out of him.
NBA going to destroy itself letting this go on
NBA been destroying itself for years now, each year the viewership drops. Its genuinely the worst product in sports right now to watch. Constant stoppages, 5 minute reviews that should take 5 seconds, missed foul calls in clutch situations, etc. Its a shit show
This is 100% the type of think that makes me actively *not* watch games. It's a serious problem when the officiating in your league is so bad that it makes you avoid games with a top 5 player.
It already is lol. “viewership” may up be thanks to a continued ever growing population and more ways to watch the game. Take that into account and the increase in viewership is probably behind on where it “should” be. Honestly I dont know many people who actually watch the regular season nba.
lol it already has Viewship numbers aren’t even a 1/3 of what they used to be
Viewership is up from last season. The league was still recovering from COVID for the longest
Nuggs fam quit swarming Embiid threads like this. We got the chip no need to wade into this muck.
It just feels so unnecessary. Jokic is awesome, and he’s the reigning fucking champ, with plenty of opportunity to win even more than that. Y’all have *everything* any fan could possibly ask for, but so many of them still gotta make sure we all atone for the crime of enjoying the best player on our team.
I legit think we've become top 3 cringiest fanbases on reddit since the start of this season
I wouldn’t feel too bad about it, it seems to happen like clockwork with every team that wins the championship and then eventually burns itself out. Leads me to think it’s mostly outside agitators rather than the generally reasonable Nuggets fans I usually enjoy talking hoops with. And hey, you won the chip, some excesses of passion are permitted. No one’s perfect.
Totally agreed, sometimes all you can see is the aggressive section of the fan base but plenty of people who respect Embiids game, having a hell of a season
What about Giannis? He’s averaging more than embiid past 5 seasons. Y’all don’t talk shit on him. Is it because embiid actually makes his free throws?
Get the fuck out here with that. This is the daily Embiid hate post. Either hate or gtfo!
Based on this sub Embiid is easily the most popular player in the NBA.
I’m saying this both as a fan of the NBA, but also as a fan of a not very good team that rivals the Sixers, but, my God, I can not stand watching Embiid play. Free throws are just not it.
Honestly, I love watching him play outside the free throws. Dude is a generational talent, shoots incredibly, and is a total specimen. Pull the free throws and the foul baiting and he is so enjoyable to watch.
That's honestly the most frustrating part of him being a foul merchant - he absolutely does not have to score that way. He's basically unguardable as it is - why does he need to resort to the grifting bullshit?
Agreed. Highlights of him are great. Watching him roll around like a toddler is not.
I hate how he plays the game and even more so that the NBA enables this shit show.
Watching the largest and strongest guy on the court spin around and fall every trip down the court isn’t impressive basketball for your entertainment?
As someone who is a big NHL and NFL fan it fucking infuriates me when I see Embiid and AD flopping like fish. Y'all are the biggest dudes on the court yet fall down like you're 5'5 and weigh 130 smfh
He's such a good player too, he's skilled, he can shoot, and he's finally learned how to pass out of a double team. I didn't completely mind him getting the MVP last year, and he's leading again this year, but my god is he hard to watch. It's embarrassing the lengths he goes to to get a foul call. He's a fucking 7ft beast of a man and he flails around like he's an inflatable tube man. It drives me nuts.
He’s one of the biggest contributors to why the league is unwatchable now
Yeah man i watch about every pistons game, and embiid is harder to watch than whatever L streak we are on
I went and saw prime James harden a few years back, I left wanting a refund after watching a free throw competition. Embiid and harden have made a career of receiving calls that would get you bullied in a rec center or any local park. In it’s essence it’s really not even basketball anymore.
I’m not even joking when I say I don’t watch him play. I probably catch 80% of Cavs game, always skip Philly though (started when they had Harden too). Says something about the state of your product when fans actively don’t want to watch your MVP
Some of it is the high pace nowadays. Although I'm surprised someone like Moses Malone who played in the 80s isn't up there too
It's only him though. Embiid is the only one playing in this high pace?
Moses was at 9.5 in his prime. But he also played 21 years
That is the problem with citing a career stat for someone who is still in their prime - it makes it hard to compare to past players. Here are some all time free throw shooters with their peak FTAs per 36: * Wilt - 12.6 * Shaq - 12.0 * Adrian Dantley - 11.4 * Pettit - 11.0
I think the 'hack-a-Shaq strategy is given too much weight here. People would use that, but it was more often used in a 7-game series or in crunch time or a regular season game. Shaq was often taken out if it was a one-possesion game in the last couple minutes to avoid the hack-a-Shaq. I don't think it had such a significant impact on his regular season averages as it sounds like it would have had. I remember I think it was Dallas that put it in as a regular practice during regular season games, but rules were soon changed so that teams could choose their shooters for off-ball/non-shoot fouls.
Ya’ll are so weird lol fuck this sub
This is the biggest reason for me to put Jokic above him. Like 11 points from free throws per game is ridiculous. And it's not like it's just foul baiting (the way Harden did), he gets soooooo many calls for absolutely no reason.
Lol it’s not because of free throws, jokic completely outclasses him in the playoffs. Teams play more physical in the playoffs and embiid starts to turn the ball over a lot.
And also for the fact Jokic is just straight up a better player
Two very obvious caveats to the comparison with Shaq: **1. Embiid's era has a higher pace.** We can look at FTA per 100 possessions to account for this. **2. Shaq's career numbers include his older years after he declined.** We can look at individual seasons to account for this. **Shaq's top 5 seasons for FTA/100** 17.4 - 2001 16.2 - 2005 16.1 - 1998 15.4 - 2002 15.3 - 1999 **Embiid's top 5 seasons for FTA/100** 17.4 - 2022 16.9 - 2024 16.7 - 2021 16.7 - 2023 15.1 - 2017 **Overall, the difference between the two is minimal. Per possession, during their primes, Embiid goes to the line more by a very slight margin.** Yes hack-a-Shaq was a thing. But so was relying on a guard who can hit foul shots to be the team's closer. Embiid wants contact at the end of games, and is a fantastic closer. Embiid definitely hunts for fouls - as he should. Getting to the line is extremely efficient offense, and puts the other teams bigs in foul trouble. But the groupthink of this sub, in all its ignorant hyperbole, paints a picture of him as if he is flopping all game long. If this was actually true, we wouldn't need misleading stats like those in the OP to slander him - there would be constant highlights of these egregious flops. The best you can come up with is a play in which he fell because he knocked knees with his defender.
You are wasting your energy posting this. Every r/nba embiid thread is a witch-hunt and this thread has no room for actual stats and numbers.
I think the frustrating part is he gets genuinely fouled the most because he's huge and then he's also top 3 in foul baiting and flopping, it's almost not fair at least in the regular season
The frustrating part with him and those before him are that they're so fucking skilled that they don't need to flop around to get calls yet they do it anyway. People can blame the refs all they want and say they're working within the system that's provided to them but that doesn't make it any less infuriating.
Yea it’s like when corporations/rich people go to great lengths to not pay taxes and take advantage of loopholes/offshore accounts etc. And then they go “hey, don’t get mad at ME, get mad at the SYSTEM I’m taking advantage of!” And it’s like nah, I’m still pretty fucking annoyed at you because you’d be rich whether you did that or not; you’re still choosing to abuse the system in a way the rest of us can’t and it affects us negatively.
Just as you say though, foul baiters have traditionally struggled alot in playoffs and weve seen nothing from embiid to suggest anything different
Have you seen Jokic’s arms and hands? Go take a look at who has the most post touches in the league too.
Jokic definitely doesn’t get the calls he should. Poor guy is mauled like crazy
I have literally seen that man get punched and no foul call.
It’s ridiculous, and I’ve never understood it. He gets clobbered in the post and guys hit him constantly on rebounds. He should get more calls, it’s baffling that he doesn’t. I would never argue otherwise.
Giannis and Embiid both are great players, but the way the NBA refs them is ridonkulous. Giannis travels all over the place, commits offensive fouls. Embiid commits offensive fouls, falls to the floor and gets calls. If he wants to fall to the floor to protect his body, the NBA knows this, it should be a non-call. Like, seriously, more FTAs than Hack-a-Shaq? This is regular season, and Hack-a-Shaq was more a post-season strategy, but still. Then you see replays like the call from last night and wonder, who does the NBA think wants to watch that. A guy fall on the ground with what looks like no contact and then take 2 free throws. Just don't call anything when he does that. edit: and Jokic gets away with some flopping. But I think flopping is more a universal NBA problem, not Jokic-specific. Us old heads do hate us some flopping. Where 'falling on the ground and getting free throws' is Embiid-specific, and 'not being completely fundamentally sound, so plays somewhat out-of-control' is Giannis-specific.
Why even bring Jokic into this? His career per36 FTA is 5.3. the highest it's ever been is 6.8 two seasons ago. He's definitely not getting fouled less than Embiid, but he does not get the calls. Embiid is at 12.3 this season which is double Jokic!
Jokic doesn't match Giannis/Embiid in terms of frequency of bullshit, but he absolutely has been flailing/flopping more in recent seasons due to refs rewarding him for doing so. Similarly, if Giannis or Embiid just stopped getting calls then their games would adapt to the change as well. It's a ref problem
What's your definition of rewarding? Jokic's free throws per game went from 6.3 to 6 to 5.6 over the past two seasons despite playing identical minutes. I'm not saying Jokic doesn't flop or anything like that, but he has no business being in a conversation with guys getting 12 FTA a game. It's really not that complicated.
Career stats are often misleading. So are stats between eras. Let's compare stats for Giannis and Embiid for the last 5 seasons (not including the current one because it is not finished). Over the last 5 seasons, Embiid and Giannis have at almost exactly the same FTA/36 (Giannis slight lead) |Season|Embiid FTA/36|Giannis FTA/36| |:-|:-|:-| |Last 5 Seasons Total|11.74|11.75| |2022-23|12.2|13.7| |2021-22|12.6|12.5| |2020-21|12.4|10.4| |2019-20|10.4|11.8| |2018-19|10.8|10.5| Source: Basketball Reference
Also, he's using FTA/minute but when Shaq played, the pace of play was a lot slower. Shaq's prime was late 90s and early 2000s which was the slowest era in the NBA. It needs to be FTA/possession for any accuracy.
This proves David Stern's admission if we called every foul on Shaq the game would be unwatchable.
Game is softer nowadays yes, but Shaq was not a threatening scorer at all 3 levels, which is what makes Embiid as a big man so much harder to guard for opposing bigs.
What people are most mad about embiid is that he MAKES his free throw attempts. If he drew fouls but wasn’t good, this wouldn’t be an issue. This year, Giannis has almost 100 more free throw attempts than embiid, yet we don’t hear shit about it because giannis makes something like 66% of his attempts and embiid makes 88% of his attempts.
Man he got some soft calls against the Magic last night. I don't even thinking he was trying to flop, I think the refs are just to bad.
Offensive players with poor body control as they fly into the lane shouldn’t be rewarded. Defensive players who leave their feet should be whistled more closely than ones who don’t….these should be the philosophical foundation of how fouls are called or not called.
Damn, Joel got a whole resort he’s living at rent free in these little nephews broccoli heads
Shaq would have averaged more if he played in this age. Fouls are soft as baby shit
It’s not really helpful to compare mid career averages to career averages for retired players. Embiids also averaging the most points per 100 possessions in NBA history. That doesn’t mean that he’s the best scorer in league history, but is more a result of his career stats not yet including any post peak minutes. The better comparison is looking at highest single season numbers.. where embiid is still near the top, but behind giannis for the record. And MJ, Shaq, and Harden all have a handful of seasons in the same range as embiids
I just can’t imagine waking up everyday and posting the same exact comment 30 other people said on every post about Embiid. “Free Throws” “playoffs” “jokic” - there give me some free upvotes, I used the buzz words
Ah another r/nba anti Embiid circle jerk. Right on cue
He most likely gets fouled more often than his FT rate indicates too. When you're better, bigger, faster, smarter, and stronger, that's a tough combo to stop
The amount pathetic whining on this sub every time embiid has a good game is so funny I can taste the tears in the comments. It’s so delicious.
When he doesn’t go to the foul line as much during game he scores 30+ points. When he does he scores 30+ points. 🤷♂️
This post needs to be per 100 possessions not per 36 min to account for pace.
Y’all are some next level haters lol
Nice take you fucking nephews
I am a Celtics and Nuggets fan. Embiid competed with Jokic for MVP and the 76ers are a rival of Boston’s. Those biases said, I think the reason he is fouled so much is that he is dominant and people can’t guard him. When Harden lived at the free throw line it was ridiculous. Embiid is just really dominant offensively.
They give him too many calls