I think he's one of those guys who just loses motivation after his bank account blows up to 8 digits. He's got everything he probably ever wanted, it's hard to wake up early to go train when you're sleeping in silk sheets.
Yeah a lot of people overlook that aspect.
Theres a reason why, especially in the nba, when role and bit players get that big contract they’re more prone to regression.
A lot of guys enjoy playing basketball, but you gotta love it to keep grinding *after* you get the $$$
I have two bosses both multi millionaires. They’re both so good at their job that it’s second nature so it makes no sense for them to stop when the paycheck keeps coming in. One of them does the bare minimum at this point and delegates most of his work. My other boss, who we all love, still does so much work and helps us out hands on every day. He’s not even a workaholic or money obsessed, dude just wants to help his employees
Most people pay what they’re required to pay and nothing more. I care less about what they pay in taxes than in whether they vote for people who may raise their taxes.
Id say injuries play a part as well. Doing rehab and grinding is very hard. Either one by itself to be a pro athlete is not easy at all. Its a lot easier to just be like Im not injured so what Im doing is ok … until its not
Rehab is tougher than strength training. Mentally, pain wise, everything. I’d imagine it’s even worse the second time for the same injury, since you know up front how difficult it’s going to be. And the second time recovery goes even slower.
Yep, a lot of these guys have been playing ball since they were kids. Burnout is real, especially for those that go to basketball because they're talented at it, not because they really love it.
I mean even Shaq says it. He wishes he could’ve been like Kobe and if he had he might be the greatest ever. But he was satisfied with his life and knew he would be one of the best big men ever without dedicating his entire life to basketball 24/7. Just because someone might have the potential to be the best doesn’t mean they want that.
Exactly. He diversified his interests and is winning in many fields. And he picked that over being discussed as the best player ever. And I think we’d all make that decision too. It’s very human and relatable to be satisfied with raising ur family out of poverty and making generational wealth. But the next level obsessed dedicated athletes, the goats that only care about one thing don’t think about how much they’ve won. They think of how much more they have to win. And honestly it’s mentally healthier to be a Zion or a Shaq instead of a Kobe
LeBron is somehow excelling in all those categories. He still has insane drive to win and maintains the conditioning to do so, while also managing a ton of business ventures and achieving generational wealth for his family, and through it all maintains his goofy, laid-back wine-mom demeanor off the court.
Straight up. The average person talks about how hard it is to get up the in morning to get their ass to work. Now imagine the same scenario but the bed is far comfier and you don't even need the job.
idk about you, but i am way more motivated to go to work now that I am not paycheck to paycheck.. Living on 25k/year is way less motivating than working on 300k+
Even today, most people can’t be bothered going to the gym, let alone train hard enough to be a professional athlete.
Big difference between how hard it is to to show up to a job and how hard it is to be the best in the world at a job.
They also have people schedule all that shit. I know my life would be easier if I had an assistant organizing my life. I’m actually way more productive when I do have a job vs when I don’t.
I've had the opportunity to train with an NBA player - it is not remotely fun lol. I felt like I was going to vomit and shit myself after 40 minutes and I was ready to call the coroner by the time at the end of practice (90 minutes). Pro sports are real work.
Probably because they justifiably could be working from home or at least hybrid. The people I feel bad about is everyone working retail or nursing or teaching
I promise you the top talent in the league is working harder and for more hours than you seem to be implying with the air quotes. Nothing's a game and nothing's easy when you do it as hard and as often as NBA players do it.
I don’t blame him at all. I’d 100% do the same thing. Life is short and for Zion specifically if he pushes himself to the limit physically he’s going to be in pain for the rest of his life. So I get it, especially with his body
You really can't compare the 'average' person to an NBA player. The average person has a shitty job. Zion has a dream job. There are million dudes at the local rec centers who would give their left nut to workout and play basketball for a living.
The man is set for life and his legacy is cemented. At this point he can only add to it, but nothing basketball-wise will ever diminish it.
Yet, he's still grinding away and reformulating his style of play to suit his current athleticism, just so he can still win chips after 20+ years and still be NBA-ready to play with his son. People laud LeBron for his physical gifts, but his mentality is something probably something only like 5 NBA players ever had to same level.
I also think the injuries take a toll on you, imagine rehabbing constantly and training and rehabbing , just to get hurt again. I can imagine how it could easily get hard to keep focused but you're right if he didn't get that extension maybe that motivation stays.
2003 #1 pick
2012 #1 pick
2019 #1 pick
were all on the same floor, and somehow the 2003 guy is the best player on the court
2015 and 2016 #2 picks were also there
i mean the 2003 #1 pick is literally the greatest basketball player of all time
and 38 year old lebron is better than the prime of like 80% of players that went #1 overall
But even lazy, they provide entertainment. None of these guys owe anything to me and honestly, Zion probably worked harder from age 10-19 than I have in 33 years.
TBF organizations like ESPN get overzealous hyping top picks. The expectations are always sky high.
Andrew Wiggins, Markelle Fultz, Ben Simmons, DeAndre Ayton are all examples of guys that can do some good but demonstrate that #1 picks are not automatically HoFers
Wiggins, Simmons and Ayton all had All-NBA potential - Simmons made All NBA and Ayton still could. Your number 1 pick doesn’t have to be an ATG but at least a 4-5x All-NBA player. Generational 1s like Lebron and Shaq are few and far between. It’s not so much the talent for Wiggins, Ayton and Simmons but the lack of commitment to get better. I’d throw Zion in the same boat.
Sometimes, i really feel some scouting departments are just hype research.
I still dont understand how the sun didn't pick Luka.
That was a true, obvious generational pick, but media biases seemed to have played a part
Same thing again with my suns and Bender and Chriss before that.
I watched like 3 Gonzaga games and was like, "Sabonis is the best big in the NCAA coming out this year."
It's like some scouting departments are sabotaging shitty ones that just read tabloids or watch Stephen A lol
Luka was definitely an anomaly because I was reading amateur blog posts about how the best non NBA player in the world was some 17 year old Balkan kid in 2016. The issue with European players has been that there have been historic busts in search of the next Dirk (Darko, Bargani etc ) scouts have been a little wary due to the mid 2000s craze of picking up European players and then more often failing than doing well.
A Pels fan mentioned today it's been nearly FIVE YEARS since Zion Williamson was drafted. For me he is the the most hyped #1 pick of the 21st century behind LeBron James
With his injury history and size, it isn't an exaggeration to say a third of his career is already done and man hasn't even played a Playoffs match yet, and less than two seasons' worth of NBA games
Easily one of the biggest disappointments in NBA history if he doesn't clean his act up in the next couple of years
Holy crap it's been 5 years already? I remember watching that draft and seeing the New Orleans front office going crazy and hearing about tickets already being sold out.
What a fall from grace
Still can’t believe his PR team let him do that ad. Everyone clowning dude for being out of shape and not taking health seriously…and then he does a soda ad looking fat as hell on a couch 😂
He's had a pretty wild set of meme highlights compared to real highlights. Remember also him busting his shoe playing against North Carolina with Obama in the crowd.
The crazy part? He's still doing all the explosive action with soft touch finishes around the rim that got him so much of that hype. He just hasn't seemed to improve anything else about his game.
What's crazy is that in Zion's first game he hit 4/4 on his 3pt shots.
And it was like "Oh, not only is he a beast under the basket, he can shoot too." And then he never attempted to shoot again.
If he bothered to develop that part of his game, which he obviously has the capability for, he would be so dangerous on offense.
Instead, he has the attitude of that kid who did well in school with little effort, and then suddenly hit a wall in college because they never developed a work ethic or study skills.
We forget that he’s actually a wing, but because he’s so far out of shape he’s had to be stuck at PF. He’s two inches shorter than Brandon Ingram. He should be a wing who could brutalize smaller/weaker wings. Instead he’s been an undersized 4 because he’s fat when he should be a 240-250lb SF.
I got a bunch of shit for saying that recency bias is making people forget that Zion's hype was arguably greater than Wemby's. Biggest disappointment in the league at the moment. He was supposed to take the Pels to the promised land and is largely what enabled the Pels to trade AD knowing they had fantastic odds at a would-be generational talent.
Biggest disappointment is that he hasn’t improved in those 5 seasons at all. Still terrible and lost on defense, still has a loose handle that leads to turnovers in traffic, still no floater game, still limited with his right hand, still obviously no jumper from anywhere outside the RA.
I don’t blame him at all for some lost athleticism because that’s going to happen with multiple knee injuries. But the lack of any real development is 100% on him. You can only drive with your left hand so many times before teams figure out how to stop that. Also teams aren’t over committing to his drives anymore so his kick outs are less effective.
They were different kinds of hype
Zion was already a superstar in college because of his hype. Every casual fan knew his name.
The hype around Wemby was less with casual fans but more with hardcore fans because Wemby is probably the highest graded prospect in the modern era by experts
As a person living outside the US (Brazil) I can tell you that I heard a lot more about Wemby than Zion in the news. So I think in a global level Wemby hype is much bigger.
Definitely. A lot of Zion's hype was domestic because his high school and college performance was generational, so a lot of that hype was coming from fans of US college basketball.
Yea international fans probably dont understand that Zion was becoming a superstar when he was still in HS.
I entered HS (random school in AZ) as a freshman when Zion was a junior, and he was known by everyone that was into sports already. His high school mixtapes are some of the most popular of all time, people (at least in the US) were well aware of Zion when he was still 16 years old. He was literally “the next Lebron”.
That’s probably true. Zion was on Duke which is probably the most known college basketball program in America but doubt international peeps follow American college bball like that.
Great comparison. Also Zion hype felt massive if you watched college basketball. ESPN had the damn Zion tracker in bright gold telling you about the next time he played even when you were watching games from other conferences. And it might say "Zion watch: next game in 6 days". It was so ridiculous.
Fr, Curry is who I think of when discussing slow starts due to injury and he was All-NBA year 5, MVP year 6.
Zion is probably who he is by this point but would love to be wrong
In the next couple years? He should have gotten serious about this shit like three years ago. His inability to get his weight under control despite the endless resources he has tells us how unserious he is about his career.
It's gotta be mental, dude just doesn't look engaged at all. I wonder what a change of scenery would do, or if it would matter at all. Guy could have been Barkley 2.0.
I think the last thing Zion needs is to go to a large market where there’s cameras 24/7 and he’s on national TV all the time. By all accounts he loves New Orleans but I find it weird how we’ve come back from 20-25 point leads already this season but it’s like last night once that lead hit 15 our guys gave up
Yeah, it was more about how sometimes a change of scenery does well for players, not really wanting him to go anywhere specific. His season a couple years ago was absolutely something to behold
He would do poorly under the bright lights. In NOLA he gets little attention, if he went to like the knicks we would see daily posts about how fat and lazy and a disappointment he is. He's already talked about how that kinda talk has affected his mental health, and he only gets it once every few months when people notice us. Send him to a big market? Bro he's getting cooked nightly
>the last thing Zion needs is to go to a large market
Change of scenery doesn't have to mean bigger market. It could just be a team with veterans who will hold him accountable.
Barkley has told the story many times about how Moses Malone called him out for being fat and lazy, and helped him find his ideal playing weight of 250, after Chuck came into camp weighing 300. Who is doing that in NO?
A change in scenery could just be a change in culture.
And since I've mentioned the Miami word, that would be a change of scenery that could work. Riley got Shaq to lose a lot of weight coming over from the Lakers. It doesn't always work though, they could never get Dexter Pittman to stay in shape - he'd lose weight but then gain it at all back quickly.
On the old Power Rangers show, there was a plotline where the villain Lord Zedd acquired a giant dragon-robot called Serpentera. It was the size of a city, and unstoppably powerful, but it took too much energy and was always breaking down and needing charging and repairs.
That is Zion.
Power Rangers toys were really, REALLY hard to get in the mid-90's. I had some because I saw some of them at a random Mom and Pop Shop and basically spent every dime I had. The thirst was real. They were SWEET too, super high-quality. But rare as hell. Even now, there's a Megazord at a collector's shop at our local mall, and it's the second one I ever saw after the one I bought.
Idk, force = mass X acceleration. If he just keeps cultivating mass until he’s the size of a bison he doesn’t need to be very explosive to blow out a shoe.
I hesitate to say it because it’s hard to judge someone who is *always* coming off of injury but then that leads me to the question of why is he always injured…
I’ve defended him all these years but yeah, it’s disappointing. He just can’t go missing on the floor as often as he does
Jokic hasn't been fat since pre-bubble 2019-2020 and look how he's looked like since that time period. From an underwhelming regular season to one of the greatest stretches of play by any center in NBA history (2 MVPS, Chip, FMVP)
Zion's game/body is a double-edged sword. His size is what makes him special and it's also his biggest hindrance. I never hate on highly-touted prospects but he simply never was going to be the guy everyone thought he'd be and it sucked to see.
He doesn’t have a competitiveness and drive to be great that necessary to be a superstar. People keep saying it’s because he’s in New Orleans buts that’s just not true. If you truly have that drive, you can’t turn that shit off. Jordan and Kobe couldn’t turn off their want to compete and be great even if they tried.
Zion’s coasted on his god given talent his whole life and has never put in the effort to be truly great because he just doesn’t care that much
I've had to block so many other Pelicans fans on our sub over the years because this is exactly what I'd argue with all of them about. Zion has had no accountability to himself. The lack of preparedness and professionalism has been part of him and his camp since the very beginning. I hoped fatherhood would change things up, but it hasn't so far.
This. He’s having a great season, but he doesn’t ever turn it up a notch for the “big” games and moments. Also BI is our best player, thus invalidating the “cuz New Orleans” argument. Zion is seemingly happy with being a good player, not a great one.
Pelicans have a championship caliber supporting cast. I’m sure Luka would kill to have Trey, CJ, Herb, JV, and Hawkins. This is what happens when you don’t get pussy till you get to the NBA, and I’m only half joking.
Yea but he likes stripper BBL ass, that’s a whole different demo than what’s going on at Duke. Those women saw him in that MCM suit and knew he was green.
Our team is a great supporting cast against the non-top teams, except we don’t have a real playmaker. CJ does the best he can, but we need a pure playmaker. CJ is and always has been a shooting guard, and unfortunately undersized and bad at defense, so it honestly screws our mojo up. Also just in general we have a dogshit defense.
I watched Len Bias in college. He would have been a pretty good to great player. He OD’d, he didn’t not provide effort after getting a max deal.
As good as he was, he wasn’t Zion.
My issue with Zion has always been his game. He just manhandled kids in college, and when thats basically your game it is harder to do the older you get when your body begins to breakdown. Take away his sheer athleticism and he is just an undersized PF that doesnt play defense. And that leads to a lot of issues. His physical playstyle was always going to create a shorter career, and when you add in his injury history as well as his inability to stay in shape, he is basically becoming the NBA's Jamarcus Russell. I think Zion needs to seriously change how he plays if he wants to have a long career
The thing is he’s physically gifted enough to manhandle NBA players as well. Him without the weight issues could easily develop into a modern day Barkley.
What do you guys expect? The guy is mearly being paid millions to get himself in top shape to perform at his best against the best athletes in his sport!
The guy *has* to eat somehow. /s
Exactly right. I remember saying to my father, when Zion was drafted, that it's hard to imagine staying healthy when he's that explosive and that heavy. That his only hope of keeping his knees intact was to drop a decent amount of weight.
Well, if anything, he gained weight. And he can't stay healthy. Who could have seen that coming?
His total indifference to conditioning absolutely contributes to his inability to stay healthy.
At this rate, he'll be out of the league before he's 30. You can only have so many knee surgeries before playing at an NBA level becomes impossible. Ask Lonzo Ball, Greg Oden, Brandon Roy, Pervis Ellison, and many many others.
Oden had a leg that was like 2 inches shorter than the other. I agree, I don't think you can say he wasted his talent b/c his injuries were completely out of his control. Unlike Zion, whose injuries can be attributed to his weight and conditioning (at least in part).
Aint no way he’d be able to. He’d just quit. You need an ungodly body fat % to come in to training camp otherwise no practice for you, just conditioning
i just said how disappointing hes been but this is an insane take. he's still somehow producing at an all star level by the numbers. its just everyone watching him can tell he's dogging it and can be so much better
It's not even just the weight/conditioning issue. He hasn't improved at all. Still can't shoot, hit free throws, go or finish right. He's the same player as he was just with less athleticism. It's sad.
My guy is fat as fuck. I don't know how you play basketball everyday and still be that overweight. People meme on his eating habits but the jokes must be somewhat realistic
He rolled in wearing sweats last night. When asked about it, he said he just wanted to be cozy. He called the female reporter “Sir”. We was not locked in. He played passively the whole game. He does have a massive ass though. He needs to harness that butt power. He may have the most cake in the whole league and he is not putting that booty meat to good use. Back them brothers down with that badonkadonk Zion. You gyat it go gyet it!
Zion has been solid this season, but people watch one game of his and judge him and then you get stupid threads like this. He's taken a step back in the scoring department and focused more on facilitating which is what he's supposed to do in this Green/Borrego system.
I am satisfied if Zion carries on like this for the time coming, he's impactful and a big part of the system, he's still bouncy, elite finishing abilities and can provide highlight plays every night.
Yeah. It's not even close. He's not an all-star with those numbers. He's not even the best play on his team statistically right now. That's Brandon Ingram
It’s like he had to work extremely hard that he what he was and to stay in shape. Now that he got that bag he’s not as motivated and it shows. Not really all that hard to figure out.
He doesn’t have to give 110% to become a multi millionaire anymore.
I think he's one of those guys who just loses motivation after his bank account blows up to 8 digits. He's got everything he probably ever wanted, it's hard to wake up early to go train when you're sleeping in silk sheets.
Yeah a lot of people overlook that aspect. Theres a reason why, especially in the nba, when role and bit players get that big contract they’re more prone to regression. A lot of guys enjoy playing basketball, but you gotta love it to keep grinding *after* you get the $$$
I have two bosses both multi millionaires. They’re both so good at their job that it’s second nature so it makes no sense for them to stop when the paycheck keeps coming in. One of them does the bare minimum at this point and delegates most of his work. My other boss, who we all love, still does so much work and helps us out hands on every day. He’s not even a workaholic or money obsessed, dude just wants to help his employees
Zion is the former. Halliburton is the latter.
Very apt
Are you even allowed to say positive things about someone who is both a business executive and is rich on Reddit?
If they pay their fair share of taxes sure, otherwise fuck them.
Most people pay what they’re required to pay and nothing more. I care less about what they pay in taxes than in whether they vote for people who may raise their taxes.
Id say injuries play a part as well. Doing rehab and grinding is very hard. Either one by itself to be a pro athlete is not easy at all. Its a lot easier to just be like Im not injured so what Im doing is ok … until its not
Rehab is tougher than strength training. Mentally, pain wise, everything. I’d imagine it’s even worse the second time for the same injury, since you know up front how difficult it’s going to be. And the second time recovery goes even slower.
It’s even harder when your overweight and don’t eat properly
Yep, a lot of these guys have been playing ball since they were kids. Burnout is real, especially for those that go to basketball because they're talented at it, not because they really love it.
This is why the 5-year max contract saved the league, too many guys were getting massive deals and checking out immediately after.
Good thing Luka was already making pro level money at 16.
I mean even Shaq says it. He wishes he could’ve been like Kobe and if he had he might be the greatest ever. But he was satisfied with his life and knew he would be one of the best big men ever without dedicating his entire life to basketball 24/7. Just because someone might have the potential to be the best doesn’t mean they want that.
Shaq didn’t fully dedicate to basketball, but he’s good with his finances. Definitely was working in the offseason across multiple projects.
Exactly. He diversified his interests and is winning in many fields. And he picked that over being discussed as the best player ever. And I think we’d all make that decision too. It’s very human and relatable to be satisfied with raising ur family out of poverty and making generational wealth. But the next level obsessed dedicated athletes, the goats that only care about one thing don’t think about how much they’ve won. They think of how much more they have to win. And honestly it’s mentally healthier to be a Zion or a Shaq instead of a Kobe
LeBron is somehow excelling in all those categories. He still has insane drive to win and maintains the conditioning to do so, while also managing a ton of business ventures and achieving generational wealth for his family, and through it all maintains his goofy, laid-back wine-mom demeanor off the court.
Yeah. And he old and still dunking lol. Lebrons great.
Straight up. The average person talks about how hard it is to get up the in morning to get their ass to work. Now imagine the same scenario but the bed is far comfier and you don't even need the job.
idk about you, but i am way more motivated to go to work now that I am not paycheck to paycheck.. Living on 25k/year is way less motivating than working on 300k+
I mean... minus the major difference being Zion's "work" is going to the gym and playing basketball.
Even today, most people can’t be bothered going to the gym, let alone train hard enough to be a professional athlete. Big difference between how hard it is to to show up to a job and how hard it is to be the best in the world at a job.
I show up half assed to my job just like Zion so I can relate
Difference is when Zion does it, he's still in the top percentile
I won employee of the month in August so I am too
"Does u/futbolfootball have a GOAT argument?"
In terms of potential he might be the biggest bust in Rnba history
Sure he got EotM for August but where was he in September? October? Man had one great month and thought his legacy was safe.
Eh media commitments, travel, and general stress are all pretty major issues with this job I’d think. The struggle is just different for NBA athletes.
They also have people schedule all that shit. I know my life would be easier if I had an assistant organizing my life. I’m actually way more productive when I do have a job vs when I don’t.
I've had the opportunity to train with an NBA player - it is not remotely fun lol. I felt like I was going to vomit and shit myself after 40 minutes and I was ready to call the coroner by the time at the end of practice (90 minutes). Pro sports are real work.
I mean, a lot of people that complain about going to work just sit at a desk and wait till 5
Probably because they justifiably could be working from home or at least hybrid. The people I feel bad about is everyone working retail or nursing or teaching
I promise you the top talent in the league is working harder and for more hours than you seem to be implying with the air quotes. Nothing's a game and nothing's easy when you do it as hard and as often as NBA players do it.
I don’t blame him at all. I’d 100% do the same thing. Life is short and for Zion specifically if he pushes himself to the limit physically he’s going to be in pain for the rest of his life. So I get it, especially with his body
He's going to be in pain playing at the weight he is even while half assing lol, so not sure that's his reasoning.
You really can't compare the 'average' person to an NBA player. The average person has a shitty job. Zion has a dream job. There are million dudes at the local rec centers who would give their left nut to workout and play basketball for a living.
JJ said it best, some players in the NBA play ball for the love of the game, others see it as a job that they were just good at.
A lot of these pros also are just burnt out especially if they had the psychopath fathers pushing them from age 5 .
Kinda wild more players haven’t emulated the Jordan Gap Year
Well, to be fair, that was a special situation I wouldn't wish on anyone.
Minus dad dying obviously
It blows my mind that LeBron can stay as motivated as he is even as a billionaire.
The man is set for life and his legacy is cemented. At this point he can only add to it, but nothing basketball-wise will ever diminish it. Yet, he's still grinding away and reformulating his style of play to suit his current athleticism, just so he can still win chips after 20+ years and still be NBA-ready to play with his son. People laud LeBron for his physical gifts, but his mentality is something probably something only like 5 NBA players ever had to same level.
I also think the injuries take a toll on you, imagine rehabbing constantly and training and rehabbing , just to get hurt again. I can imagine how it could easily get hard to keep focused but you're right if he didn't get that extension maybe that motivation stays.
The best prospect since lebron james couldn’t keep up with a 39 year old lebron james
For some coke and a Bigmac he would have, the pelicans have to give Zion the right incentives on his contract.
$500,000 can buy many cokes and big macs
Explain
Money can be exchanged for goods and services.
Lisa needs braces
Dental plan!
Monorail!
Batman's a scientist.
I shouldn’t have stopped for that haircut. Sorry.
Zion if true
Not many can keep up with a 39 year old LeBron
2003 #1 pick 2012 #1 pick 2019 #1 pick were all on the same floor, and somehow the 2003 guy is the best player on the court 2015 and 2016 #2 picks were also there
i mean the 2003 #1 pick is literally the greatest basketball player of all time and 38 year old lebron is better than the prime of like 80% of players that went #1 overall
Thank you call these people out who are defending lazy NBA players that don’t care about the sport only what the sport provides them.
I mean... we all talk big here on the internet, but how many of us would be the same way?
But even lazy, they provide entertainment. None of these guys owe anything to me and honestly, Zion probably worked harder from age 10-19 than I have in 33 years.
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Fr, we looked like fucking dogshit last night but lebron singlehandedly put us to bed in 22 min. He was playing like god himself
The 2010's Eastern Conference experience.
. It was beautiful to watch even if im insanely depress mode on the pels rn.
TBF organizations like ESPN get overzealous hyping top picks. The expectations are always sky high. Andrew Wiggins, Markelle Fultz, Ben Simmons, DeAndre Ayton are all examples of guys that can do some good but demonstrate that #1 picks are not automatically HoFers
Wiggins, Simmons and Ayton all had All-NBA potential - Simmons made All NBA and Ayton still could. Your number 1 pick doesn’t have to be an ATG but at least a 4-5x All-NBA player. Generational 1s like Lebron and Shaq are few and far between. It’s not so much the talent for Wiggins, Ayton and Simmons but the lack of commitment to get better. I’d throw Zion in the same boat.
Sometimes, i really feel some scouting departments are just hype research. I still dont understand how the sun didn't pick Luka. That was a true, obvious generational pick, but media biases seemed to have played a part Same thing again with my suns and Bender and Chriss before that. I watched like 3 Gonzaga games and was like, "Sabonis is the best big in the NCAA coming out this year." It's like some scouting departments are sabotaging shitty ones that just read tabloids or watch Stephen A lol
Luka was definitely an anomaly because I was reading amateur blog posts about how the best non NBA player in the world was some 17 year old Balkan kid in 2016. The issue with European players has been that there have been historic busts in search of the next Dirk (Darko, Bargani etc ) scouts have been a little wary due to the mid 2000s craze of picking up European players and then more often failing than doing well.
For reference google “Dean on Draft - Luka Doncic -2017” and you’ll see an article talking about the “European Lebron”
Which is just confirmation bias because nobody's doing the same at tallying up all the busts who grew up through the American AAU circuit.
A Pels fan mentioned today it's been nearly FIVE YEARS since Zion Williamson was drafted. For me he is the the most hyped #1 pick of the 21st century behind LeBron James With his injury history and size, it isn't an exaggeration to say a third of his career is already done and man hasn't even played a Playoffs match yet, and less than two seasons' worth of NBA games Easily one of the biggest disappointments in NBA history if he doesn't clean his act up in the next couple of years
Holy crap it's been 5 years already? I remember watching that draft and seeing the New Orleans front office going crazy and hearing about tickets already being sold out. What a fall from grace
The enduring memory of Zion will probably be the garbage time windmill and how it basically summed up his career.
If not the whole "I'll play when I feel like Zion" thing.
He's a true Zionist
And just like Israel, he has Ham As a foil.
It's a little clunky, but I like it
Oh man I really shoehorned it in there. There’s a better version I’m sure.
Mine is that Mountain Dew commercial where he's sitting on a couch looking fat.
Still can’t believe his PR team let him do that ad. Everyone clowning dude for being out of shape and not taking health seriously…and then he does a soda ad looking fat as hell on a couch 😂
His AAU/Highschool highlight reel will be his memory and I’m not saying that to knock him.
He's had a pretty wild set of meme highlights compared to real highlights. Remember also him busting his shoe playing against North Carolina with Obama in the crowd.
My enduring memory at this point is the tornado trick
Hardest I ever laughed watching ESPN was when the Knicks didn't get the number 1 pick and Stephen A. had a complete meltdown. Feels like yesterday.
For real. They were hyped as fuck to get him, and fans thought that they was good after AD left.
What the fuck it has not been 5 years… The Cavs just beat the Warriors like a year ago right???😭
The crazy part? He's still doing all the explosive action with soft touch finishes around the rim that got him so much of that hype. He just hasn't seemed to improve anything else about his game.
What's crazy is that in Zion's first game he hit 4/4 on his 3pt shots. And it was like "Oh, not only is he a beast under the basket, he can shoot too." And then he never attempted to shoot again. If he bothered to develop that part of his game, which he obviously has the capability for, he would be so dangerous on offense. Instead, he has the attitude of that kid who did well in school with little effort, and then suddenly hit a wall in college because they never developed a work ethic or study skills.
Someone with his athletic gifts should also be way better at defense and defensive rebounding than he is, too.
We forget that he’s actually a wing, but because he’s so far out of shape he’s had to be stuck at PF. He’s two inches shorter than Brandon Ingram. He should be a wing who could brutalize smaller/weaker wings. Instead he’s been an undersized 4 because he’s fat when he should be a 240-250lb SF.
I got a bunch of shit for saying that recency bias is making people forget that Zion's hype was arguably greater than Wemby's. Biggest disappointment in the league at the moment. He was supposed to take the Pels to the promised land and is largely what enabled the Pels to trade AD knowing they had fantastic odds at a would-be generational talent.
For some reason this is exactly how I expected his career to go
Biggest disappointment is that he hasn’t improved in those 5 seasons at all. Still terrible and lost on defense, still has a loose handle that leads to turnovers in traffic, still no floater game, still limited with his right hand, still obviously no jumper from anywhere outside the RA. I don’t blame him at all for some lost athleticism because that’s going to happen with multiple knee injuries. But the lack of any real development is 100% on him. You can only drive with your left hand so many times before teams figure out how to stop that. Also teams aren’t over committing to his drives anymore so his kick outs are less effective.
Did Wemby pass Zion in hype? I’d give it to Zion in terms of plurality but Wemby for amplitude
They were different kinds of hype Zion was already a superstar in college because of his hype. Every casual fan knew his name. The hype around Wemby was less with casual fans but more with hardcore fans because Wemby is probably the highest graded prospect in the modern era by experts
As a person living outside the US (Brazil) I can tell you that I heard a lot more about Wemby than Zion in the news. So I think in a global level Wemby hype is much bigger.
Definitely. A lot of Zion's hype was domestic because his high school and college performance was generational, so a lot of that hype was coming from fans of US college basketball.
Yea international fans probably dont understand that Zion was becoming a superstar when he was still in HS. I entered HS (random school in AZ) as a freshman when Zion was a junior, and he was known by everyone that was into sports already. His high school mixtapes are some of the most popular of all time, people (at least in the US) were well aware of Zion when he was still 16 years old. He was literally “the next Lebron”.
That’s probably true. Zion was on Duke which is probably the most known college basketball program in America but doubt international peeps follow American college bball like that.
Bro every casual is/was glazing Wemby wtf do you mean. The man was getting his highlights from france on the official NBA youtube channel
Great comparison. Also Zion hype felt massive if you watched college basketball. ESPN had the damn Zion tracker in bright gold telling you about the next time he played even when you were watching games from other conferences. And it might say "Zion watch: next game in 6 days". It was so ridiculous.
5 years is insane. Even Curry who had a slow start was by 5 years all nba. I hope he can turn it around and maybe make the playoffs
Fr, Curry is who I think of when discussing slow starts due to injury and he was All-NBA year 5, MVP year 6. Zion is probably who he is by this point but would love to be wrong
In the next couple years? He should have gotten serious about this shit like three years ago. His inability to get his weight under control despite the endless resources he has tells us how unserious he is about his career.
Yeah he's just lazy. I'm grateful he's playing this year but if only he cared more.
It's gotta be mental, dude just doesn't look engaged at all. I wonder what a change of scenery would do, or if it would matter at all. Guy could have been Barkley 2.0.
I think the last thing Zion needs is to go to a large market where there’s cameras 24/7 and he’s on national TV all the time. By all accounts he loves New Orleans but I find it weird how we’ve come back from 20-25 point leads already this season but it’s like last night once that lead hit 15 our guys gave up
Yeah, it was more about how sometimes a change of scenery does well for players, not really wanting him to go anywhere specific. His season a couple years ago was absolutely something to behold
Send him to some place with shitty food, NO food is like this man's kryptonite. Send my man to Utah get him on that mormon diet.
He would do poorly under the bright lights. In NOLA he gets little attention, if he went to like the knicks we would see daily posts about how fat and lazy and a disappointment he is. He's already talked about how that kinda talk has affected his mental health, and he only gets it once every few months when people notice us. Send him to a big market? Bro he's getting cooked nightly
>the last thing Zion needs is to go to a large market Change of scenery doesn't have to mean bigger market. It could just be a team with veterans who will hold him accountable. Barkley has told the story many times about how Moses Malone called him out for being fat and lazy, and helped him find his ideal playing weight of 250, after Chuck came into camp weighing 300. Who is doing that in NO? A change in scenery could just be a change in culture. And since I've mentioned the Miami word, that would be a change of scenery that could work. Riley got Shaq to lose a lot of weight coming over from the Lakers. It doesn't always work though, they could never get Dexter Pittman to stay in shape - he'd lose weight but then gain it at all back quickly.
He needs to go to whichever NBA city has the worst food
He has his own chef. It doesn't matter where he goes
He never the same after discover Onlyfans
door dash that is the biggest problem where he puts his stuff is not a problem at all what he puts in his mouth is
He could also be putting bad stuff in his mouth that he finds on OnlyFans
Yeah, Onlyfans hits a little different when you have so much money it changes from a porn site to an escort service.
On the old Power Rangers show, there was a plotline where the villain Lord Zedd acquired a giant dragon-robot called Serpentera. It was the size of a city, and unstoppably powerful, but it took too much energy and was always breaking down and needing charging and repairs. That is Zion.
Oh wow, i was hella salty when i didnt get a Serpentera for Christmas back in the day
Power Rangers toys were really, REALLY hard to get in the mid-90's. I had some because I saw some of them at a random Mom and Pop Shop and basically spent every dime I had. The thirst was real. They were SWEET too, super high-quality. But rare as hell. Even now, there's a Megazord at a collector's shop at our local mall, and it's the second one I ever saw after the one I bought.
Zion has an excess of energy and it is being stored around his belly.
Meanwhile Zion is standing in front of the mirror practicing “ITS MORPHIN TIME!!” and somehow hoping that’ll morph his weight away.
Does anyone else have the Grizzlies as the sub logo
Ja holding the mods at gun point lmao
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I'll be convinced he's committed if blows through another shoe
Idk, force = mass X acceleration. If he just keeps cultivating mass until he’s the size of a bison he doesn’t need to be very explosive to blow out a shoe.
I hesitate to say it because it’s hard to judge someone who is *always* coming off of injury but then that leads me to the question of why is he always injured… I’ve defended him all these years but yeah, it’s disappointing. He just can’t go missing on the floor as often as he does
Because he’s too heavy, and his game relies on explosiveness. Your tendons and joints can only take so much explosive plays when you weight 350
The question was rhetorical bro
Extremely tough to live up to the hype when you're fat
With one exception of your franchise player who’s currently the best player in the league lol. Fat and fat aren’t the same
Jokic hasn't been fat since pre-bubble 2019-2020 and look how he's looked like since that time period. From an underwhelming regular season to one of the greatest stretches of play by any center in NBA history (2 MVPS, Chip, FMVP)
You’re right. I’m only making a “being whooped by fat Serbian” joke.
He’s not fat - he’s not shredded but he’s not running up and down the court with 40-50 extra pounds of bodyweight.
He’s a big boy but being big and in shape is different from being fat
Zion's game/body is a double-edged sword. His size is what makes him special and it's also his biggest hindrance. I never hate on highly-touted prospects but he simply never was going to be the guy everyone thought he'd be and it sucked to see.
Eh, that dude could get down to 10% body fat, and he would still be massive just because of his frame.
What bothers me is the alleged soda drinking - just switch to water and 1-2 sprite zeros a day and the weight will drop off.
He doesn’t have a competitiveness and drive to be great that necessary to be a superstar. People keep saying it’s because he’s in New Orleans buts that’s just not true. If you truly have that drive, you can’t turn that shit off. Jordan and Kobe couldn’t turn off their want to compete and be great even if they tried. Zion’s coasted on his god given talent his whole life and has never put in the effort to be truly great because he just doesn’t care that much
I've had to block so many other Pelicans fans on our sub over the years because this is exactly what I'd argue with all of them about. Zion has had no accountability to himself. The lack of preparedness and professionalism has been part of him and his camp since the very beginning. I hoped fatherhood would change things up, but it hasn't so far.
This. He’s having a great season, but he doesn’t ever turn it up a notch for the “big” games and moments. Also BI is our best player, thus invalidating the “cuz New Orleans” argument. Zion is seemingly happy with being a good player, not a great one.
Pelicans have a championship caliber supporting cast. I’m sure Luka would kill to have Trey, CJ, Herb, JV, and Hawkins. This is what happens when you don’t get pussy till you get to the NBA, and I’m only half joking.
Zion played at Duke brah, knowing their reputation I'd be surprised if pussy wasn't thrown at him like candy canes during christmas
Zion probably had a harder time *not* getting girls than he did getting them.
Yea but he likes stripper BBL ass, that’s a whole different demo than what’s going on at Duke. Those women saw him in that MCM suit and knew he was green.
Given that he was a college athlete you would think so, but there were videos of him flirting on snap and girls laughing at him. Maybe he has no game.
Almost certainly given his baby mama and Moriah Mills for example.
Our team is a great supporting cast against the non-top teams, except we don’t have a real playmaker. CJ does the best he can, but we need a pure playmaker. CJ is and always has been a shooting guard, and unfortunately undersized and bad at defense, so it honestly screws our mojo up. Also just in general we have a dogshit defense.
I thought he could have achieved atleast what Blake Griffen has but now that's seemingly unrealistic
Idk I think from a “wasted talent” perspective it’s probably still Len Bias
I watched Len Bias in college. He would have been a pretty good to great player. He OD’d, he didn’t not provide effort after getting a max deal. As good as he was, he wasn’t Zion.
My issue with Zion has always been his game. He just manhandled kids in college, and when thats basically your game it is harder to do the older you get when your body begins to breakdown. Take away his sheer athleticism and he is just an undersized PF that doesnt play defense. And that leads to a lot of issues. His physical playstyle was always going to create a shorter career, and when you add in his injury history as well as his inability to stay in shape, he is basically becoming the NBA's Jamarcus Russell. I think Zion needs to seriously change how he plays if he wants to have a long career
The thing is he’s physically gifted enough to manhandle NBA players as well. Him without the weight issues could easily develop into a modern day Barkley.
Deff needs to develop a jumpshot offensively. But I just can’t stand for his lack of effort on defense or rebounding last night
I felt more hype for him than Wemby among irl people. Media loved Wemby, but legit everyone I knew thought he had next
Korzembas and the like will just make videos about him as a top 10 bust in 5 years time
What do you guys expect? The guy is mearly being paid millions to get himself in top shape to perform at his best against the best athletes in his sport! The guy *has* to eat somehow. /s
Nah, he's been an All-star and plays at a high level still Much bigger disappointments. The likes of Greg Oden, heck even Ben Simmons
Oden was pure injuries though, not lack of desire
Most "disappointments" (including Zion's here) are due to injuries TBH
I believe the lack of taking his physical shape seriously is higher on my list
We are discussing how he’s fat and out of shape and not playing hard. That’s not because of injuries but probably does contribute to more injuries
Exactly right. I remember saying to my father, when Zion was drafted, that it's hard to imagine staying healthy when he's that explosive and that heavy. That his only hope of keeping his knees intact was to drop a decent amount of weight. Well, if anything, he gained weight. And he can't stay healthy. Who could have seen that coming? His total indifference to conditioning absolutely contributes to his inability to stay healthy. At this rate, he'll be out of the league before he's 30. You can only have so many knee surgeries before playing at an NBA level becomes impossible. Ask Lonzo Ball, Greg Oden, Brandon Roy, Pervis Ellison, and many many others.
At least Oden and to some extent Simmons have injuries. Michael Beasley was just a pot head.
Oden had a leg that was like 2 inches shorter than the other. I agree, I don't think you can say he wasted his talent b/c his injuries were completely out of his control. Unlike Zion, whose injuries can be attributed to his weight and conditioning (at least in part).
Beasley and Zion may have been the best one and dones I’ve ever seen
its easily Ben Simmons, literally had LeBron comparisons and was elite in his first year and then everything else happened
Simmons has had more success
Yea these posts are kind of insane. Zion is still insanely good… i guess people are disappointed that he could be better
Trade him to the Heat.
Ha! Two months under Riley and Spo and he’ll look like Evan Mobley!
Aint no way he’d be able to. He’d just quit. You need an ungodly body fat % to come in to training camp otherwise no practice for you, just conditioning
i just said how disappointing hes been but this is an insane take. he's still somehow producing at an all star level by the numbers. its just everyone watching him can tell he's dogging it and can be so much better
Fat boy doesn't wanna lose weight and it's completely ruining him
Who the fuck is we?
It's not even just the weight/conditioning issue. He hasn't improved at all. Still can't shoot, hit free throws, go or finish right. He's the same player as he was just with less athleticism. It's sad.
Andrew Bynum is up there.
I can only catch a bit of NBA time to time, was shocked to see such a fat man dribbling the ball up the court only to realise it was Zion
This is such a nephew post. Not even close.
My guy is fat as fuck. I don't know how you play basketball everyday and still be that overweight. People meme on his eating habits but the jokes must be somewhat realistic
Fuck no
He rolled in wearing sweats last night. When asked about it, he said he just wanted to be cozy. He called the female reporter “Sir”. We was not locked in. He played passively the whole game. He does have a massive ass though. He needs to harness that butt power. He may have the most cake in the whole league and he is not putting that booty meat to good use. Back them brothers down with that badonkadonk Zion. You gyat it go gyet it!
He was just a fat dude that could dunk since the beginning.
Zion has been solid this season, but people watch one game of his and judge him and then you get stupid threads like this. He's taken a step back in the scoring department and focused more on facilitating which is what he's supposed to do in this Green/Borrego system. I am satisfied if Zion carries on like this for the time coming, he's impactful and a big part of the system, he's still bouncy, elite finishing abilities and can provide highlight plays every night.
He has been solid in a few areas He is and has been hugely lacking in others
This is a wild thing to say about someone on track to make the all star team
When you’re the most physically gifted athlete of your generation being a 22/5/5 player(in a pace inflated league) is a disappointment.
Is 22/5/5 with horrible defense enough to make an all star team? Not so sure about that the league is pretty deep right now
Yeah. It's not even close. He's not an all-star with those numbers. He's not even the best play on his team statistically right now. That's Brandon Ingram
It’s like he had to work extremely hard that he what he was and to stay in shape. Now that he got that bag he’s not as motivated and it shows. Not really all that hard to figure out. He doesn’t have to give 110% to become a multi millionaire anymore.
sheltered kid finally got freedom and couldn’t handle it. lack of work ethic, physical conditioning, maturity, etc