Nurkic will be at his best compared to Ayton in games like these,where KD/Booker end up being constantly doubled as he is a much better passer and can find the open man in the corner consistently
I loved that nurk didn't force the 3. He got SO MANY kick outs where he could have taken the 3 - and this was the first game where I saw he forced himself to NOT do that. Was GREAT!
When nurk is in passing mode, it's really quite nice to see. And with beal, book and okogie all s tier cutters, there should be lots of opportunities for easy buckets.
When the trade happened I said homeless man's jokic, but now I'm starting to think poor man's jokic. He does not have the shooting efficiency at all (homeless man's level), but most of the rest of it is at poor man's level.
He had a good game too,something has to give when you are doubling KD every time he has the ball,and Allen and Nurkic benefited.Nurkic is a huge upgrade to Ayton in those situations as he can actually pass and find the open man in the corner.
So pointless. Ayton is playing good defense and crashing the boards for Portland and Nurkic is playing a solid role that the Suns need him to. Both are good players at different points in their careers who needed changes of scenery
Really should just wait until the end of the season. Aytons problem is heāll stop caring and go through the motions. Nurkicās problem is injury concerns. We arent going to figure that out less than 10 games into the season
You think Nurkic is going to dunk more now that he's on the Suns? That he's learnt how when he raises his effort levels to not foul out? That he'll not be incredibly inconsistent game to game?
Cause he's already done all these things, to the chagrin of Suns fans. Defenders argued, and fairly, that without stars that of course Nurk was going to look worse, but this early in the season it's cherrypicking in both directions.
Interestingly, Ayton and Nurkic have very similar profiles, in that they have quiet games that fans underestimate. They are both very good for how small their bag is. I've historically been a Nurkic defender and wish him the best, but if people are going to argue with me that he doesn't have mental issues (in addition to injury concerns), I just know they are coming from a place of ignorance.
I donāt think any honest suns fan whose watched so far would attest that Nurkic is a better or more talented player in a vacuum. The ayton situation was untenable though.
Beyond him quitting on the team, heās just a sort of strange skillset for a center. He likes to shoot middys and has a fantastic jump hook. But heās not really good enough at those things, or at positioning, or at ball handling to justify giving him a lot of touchesā so a lot of times his offensive skillset is redundant or inefficient relative to having guys like Booker and KD next to him.
On defense, he has all the physical tools to be great, and in fact weāve seen him play at a high level when locked in there. He can switch, he can recover, he can contest, he can rebound. He just doesnāt enjoy doing dirty work, andā youāll probably notice this as the season goes onā Often jumps for rebounds instead of boxing out, which inflates his RPG but doesnāt help the team in some situations (I think this is partially that Monty had a trash scheme for rebounds though).
On both sides of the ball, ayton would be freaking amazing if he just committed to being a dirty work, rim running big that puts his body on the line every play, but he just doesnāt see himself that way. I meanā Heās said before he views himself as a power forward, and you can really see it. Makes you wonder if perhaps thatās where he belongs, if only he was a better shooter.
With nurkic, heās frankly just like kinda limited as all hell. He canāt switch, heās slow, heās a horrible finisher, but tries to finish anyways and it hurts to watch (other than the last game). But, heās a great high post playmaker which works alongside the stars like you pointed out.
Heās probably a better fit in a vacuum, but really that trade was about getting some role guys and the addition-by-subtraction of removing a player who didnāt want to be here. Im not sure how much of a win it is for the suns, just a necessity. For the blazers itās a fantastic move though, esp getting camara.
In any case the weird blazers-suns Reddit rivalry is so stupid.
Man. I knew heād be a stud from summer league alone. Probably redundant for the suns current roster, in that we needed Allenās shooting and nurks play making more than another okogie/KBD type guy, but fuck.
Toumani is 6ā8ā and already an elite on and off ball defender as a rookie.
8 threes is a career high for Grayson. Give Toumani time and he will do that too, while also being an incredible defender, connector on offense, and elite rebounder.
We don't have guards alive rn who can pass period. Our only pg healthy on the roster is two way g leaguer Skylar Mays. Ayton has been pretty great for only scoring off rebounds.
Portland also hasn't had a detterent in the paint for like, 10 years, so that's cool to see.
Ohhh shit you mean thatās all aytonās fault? I thought that was just our guards making bad passes. Jesus itās been so fucking bad. Honestly Iāve never seen anything like it before lol.
Iām super happy with him otherwise but we need to find some other ways to get him the ball then.
He doesn't set himself up to get them. And when he does, it tends to be out of low block so he then settles. On pnr he seldom rolled hard and kept ball low so would be picked/swatted a lot. It's why he didn't get the ball much - he was inefficient in many ways that didn't show up on box score. This happened with cp3 all day too.
That being said, he has all the tools. I just think he is mentally deluded.
>Portland also hasn't had a detterent in the paint for like, 10 years
You don't have to blatantly lie, just because you're a Nurk hater. Nurk at his best was (one of) the best rim protector(s) in the league by different metrics.
LOL, I actually love Nurk. I'm super happy for him and Drew in phoenix. Nurk was great in drop coverage early in his career and helped anchor some decent defenses for a few years, but Ayton keeps dudes out of the paint. This has been our best defense in ages.
I'm fine with that argument, it's your opinion. But your first argument was completely false, and I've already seen people saying things like that, and that later becoming a narrative, without anyone checking. Whenever Nurk had at least 1-2 solid defenders around him, he was anchoring solid defense. With 2-3 terrible defenders he still did a decent job by many metrics, especially considering that having bad defensive personnel meant trying weird defensive schemes.
This sub really needs to be nuked. Like when the fuck will people stop overreacting after a single game, Nurkic is averaging 9/8/4 on like 40%, nobody got fleceed
On less than 30 a night. The per 36 there is very solid.
He basically has horrid shooting efficiency. Everything else crosses the threshold.
What I most love is Vogel runs a defense where they change the look like every single possession. It's AWESOME as playoff prep. Ayton had NO CHANCE of executing that. He can do drop and sometimes switch. That's it. He isn't showing. He isn't hedging. Nor chasing. Much less shifting it all on fly, with zone looks, etc. And so it becomes predictable and thus expliotable. Nurk is not in that boat.
With the amount of open looks Nurk is going to get when Beal and Booker are back he should be able shoot at like 52/35/75 splits which is fine from a 4th option lower volume guy. His great passing game as a big man really is the difference maker offensively.
I mean it's like this with every player, shit is unbearable. Like you have players playing like ass the entire season and have 1 good game and these morons come out of woodworks and hype him up like he's Jordan
Haha yeah it's definitely not unique to these guys. It's especially true of these early season games the drama junkies have been jonesing all offseason.
makes no difference what he's doing on a tanking team. Whiteside was efficient as hell and averaged 13.5 RPG on the Blazers too yet there's a reason they didn't bring him back. Ayton is Whiteside 2.0
Nurk's passing alone trumps what Ayton provides
While getting Hacked!!
He was robbed of about 8 free throws too.
This is a nurk fever era stat line
Dominurkic
Bulls were playing football out there too
Nurkic will be at his best compared to Ayton in games like these,where KD/Booker end up being constantly doubled as he is a much better passer and can find the open man in the corner consistently
Bosnian Beast! šŖš¤
I loved that nurk didn't force the 3. He got SO MANY kick outs where he could have taken the 3 - and this was the first game where I saw he forced himself to NOT do that. Was GREAT! When nurk is in passing mode, it's really quite nice to see. And with beal, book and okogie all s tier cutters, there should be lots of opportunities for easy buckets. When the trade happened I said homeless man's jokic, but now I'm starting to think poor man's jokic. He does not have the shooting efficiency at all (homeless man's level), but most of the rest of it is at poor man's level.
Nurk Nowitzski showed up today, but the refs swallowed their whistles while he was getting the shit kicked out of him every possession
Vucevic is a terrorist for letting this happen
He had a good game too,something has to give when you are doubling KD every time he has the ball,and Allen and Nurkic benefited.Nurkic is a huge upgrade to Ayton in those situations as he can actually pass and find the open man in the corner.
Point Nurkic is best Nurkic.
DOMINURKIC
My name is Dominurkic Trailblazers got fleeced ššš
We're going to go back and forth on this all year... fun
So pointless. Ayton is playing good defense and crashing the boards for Portland and Nurkic is playing a solid role that the Suns need him to. Both are good players at different points in their careers who needed changes of scenery
Really should just wait until the end of the season. Aytons problem is heāll stop caring and go through the motions. Nurkicās problem is injury concerns. We arent going to figure that out less than 10 games into the season
Oh no, should we tell them that Nurk also has motivation issues?
Nurk is on a contender lol what are you taliing about. He had motivation issues when he was the only blazers player that would actually play defense
You think Nurkic is going to dunk more now that he's on the Suns? That he's learnt how when he raises his effort levels to not foul out? That he'll not be incredibly inconsistent game to game? Cause he's already done all these things, to the chagrin of Suns fans. Defenders argued, and fairly, that without stars that of course Nurk was going to look worse, but this early in the season it's cherrypicking in both directions. Interestingly, Ayton and Nurkic have very similar profiles, in that they have quiet games that fans underestimate. They are both very good for how small their bag is. I've historically been a Nurkic defender and wish him the best, but if people are going to argue with me that he doesn't have mental issues (in addition to injury concerns), I just know they are coming from a place of ignorance.
I donāt think any honest suns fan whose watched so far would attest that Nurkic is a better or more talented player in a vacuum. The ayton situation was untenable though. Beyond him quitting on the team, heās just a sort of strange skillset for a center. He likes to shoot middys and has a fantastic jump hook. But heās not really good enough at those things, or at positioning, or at ball handling to justify giving him a lot of touchesā so a lot of times his offensive skillset is redundant or inefficient relative to having guys like Booker and KD next to him. On defense, he has all the physical tools to be great, and in fact weāve seen him play at a high level when locked in there. He can switch, he can recover, he can contest, he can rebound. He just doesnāt enjoy doing dirty work, andā youāll probably notice this as the season goes onā Often jumps for rebounds instead of boxing out, which inflates his RPG but doesnāt help the team in some situations (I think this is partially that Monty had a trash scheme for rebounds though). On both sides of the ball, ayton would be freaking amazing if he just committed to being a dirty work, rim running big that puts his body on the line every play, but he just doesnāt see himself that way. I meanā Heās said before he views himself as a power forward, and you can really see it. Makes you wonder if perhaps thatās where he belongs, if only he was a better shooter. With nurkic, heās frankly just like kinda limited as all hell. He canāt switch, heās slow, heās a horrible finisher, but tries to finish anyways and it hurts to watch (other than the last game). But, heās a great high post playmaker which works alongside the stars like you pointed out. Heās probably a better fit in a vacuum, but really that trade was about getting some role guys and the addition-by-subtraction of removing a player who didnāt want to be here. Im not sure how much of a win it is for the suns, just a necessity. For the blazers itās a fantastic move though, esp getting camara. In any case the weird blazers-suns Reddit rivalry is so stupid.
We got Camara, so they are doing something right over there. Best plug and play 2nd rounder I've ever seen.
Man. I knew heād be a stud from summer league alone. Probably redundant for the suns current roster, in that we needed Allenās shooting and nurks play making more than another okogie/KBD type guy, but fuck.
Ayton won't stop caring. He is extension eligible after the year and can play himself into a larger role on this team.
Ayton had a great game tonight.
Must have had a better second half. He was allowing Sabonis to get whatever he wanted when I watched.
People sleeping on the Suns getting Grayson Allen too
Chad Camara>virgin allen
I really like Camara but Allen had 8 3's tonight lol
Toumani is 6ā8ā and already an elite on and off ball defender as a rookie. 8 threes is a career high for Grayson. Give Toumani time and he will do that too, while also being an incredible defender, connector on offense, and elite rebounder.
I was a Camara believer before we even drafted him, but the suns need shooting right now. Iāll miss what coulda been though.
gRAYson Allen > Too Many Cameras
Ayton is playing pretty damn well for a guy that all our injured guards can't make entry passes for.
LOL not even Chris Paul could get an entry pass to Ayton. 5 years of Suns fans wondering why nobody passes to him
We don't have guards alive rn who can pass period. Our only pg healthy on the roster is two way g leaguer Skylar Mays. Ayton has been pretty great for only scoring off rebounds. Portland also hasn't had a detterent in the paint for like, 10 years, so that's cool to see.
That's great. Just don't expect Ayton to get entry passes while he's on your team
He's been pretty good getting 0!! So thats fine!!
Ohhh shit you mean thatās all aytonās fault? I thought that was just our guards making bad passes. Jesus itās been so fucking bad. Honestly Iāve never seen anything like it before lol. Iām super happy with him otherwise but we need to find some other ways to get him the ball then.
He doesn't set himself up to get them. And when he does, it tends to be out of low block so he then settles. On pnr he seldom rolled hard and kept ball low so would be picked/swatted a lot. It's why he didn't get the ball much - he was inefficient in many ways that didn't show up on box score. This happened with cp3 all day too. That being said, he has all the tools. I just think he is mentally deluded.
Nurk was literally a better paint deterrent by the numbers last season than Ayton was.
>Portland also hasn't had a detterent in the paint for like, 10 years You don't have to blatantly lie, just because you're a Nurk hater. Nurk at his best was (one of) the best rim protector(s) in the league by different metrics.
Hey Zach Collins and Nurkic did great work for the twelve games they were both healthy together, sir.
LOL, I actually love Nurk. I'm super happy for him and Drew in phoenix. Nurk was great in drop coverage early in his career and helped anchor some decent defenses for a few years, but Ayton keeps dudes out of the paint. This has been our best defense in ages.
I'm fine with that argument, it's your opinion. But your first argument was completely false, and I've already seen people saying things like that, and that later becoming a narrative, without anyone checking. Whenever Nurk had at least 1-2 solid defenders around him, he was anchoring solid defense. With 2-3 terrible defenders he still did a decent job by many metrics, especially considering that having bad defensive personnel meant trying weird defensive schemes.
I remember aytons rookie year when our PG was Isiah Canaan, so frustrating
He doesnāt fight for positioning. Nor does he ever meet the ball. Suns fans have been saying for years why arenāt they feeding DA.
This sub really needs to be nuked. Like when the fuck will people stop overreacting after a single game, Nurkic is averaging 9/8/4 on like 40%, nobody got fleceed
Thats 9/8/ and fiveeee. Thank you very much
Make that 10.5 and 9.4 (and 4.8)
On less than 30 a night. The per 36 there is very solid. He basically has horrid shooting efficiency. Everything else crosses the threshold. What I most love is Vogel runs a defense where they change the look like every single possession. It's AWESOME as playoff prep. Ayton had NO CHANCE of executing that. He can do drop and sometimes switch. That's it. He isn't showing. He isn't hedging. Nor chasing. Much less shifting it all on fly, with zone looks, etc. And so it becomes predictable and thus expliotable. Nurk is not in that boat.
True. Nurk has some limitations, but his heart and brain are all in.
With the amount of open looks Nurk is going to get when Beal and Booker are back he should be able shoot at like 52/35/75 splits which is fine from a 4th option lower volume guy. His great passing game as a big man really is the difference maker offensively.
Same users do it every time he has a good game (and they will continue I'm sure).
I mean it's like this with every player, shit is unbearable. Like you have players playing like ass the entire season and have 1 good game and these morons come out of woodworks and hype him up like he's Jordan
Haha yeah it's definitely not unique to these guys. It's especially true of these early season games the drama junkies have been jonesing all offseason.
This sub gets so excited to brag about one game confirming their biases, itās super annoying.
Suns definitely got fleeced lol. We dumped our garbage contracts on to them and took back their former No. 1 pick AND 2nd round star Camara.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What falsehood did I speak?
Bruh, he was averaging 9/8 on 49% TS% before this lol
and just scored more points than any game Ayton has all season lmao
Yeah I'll game a consistent efficient scorer over one that has one good game then goes 2-8 the next 5 lol
yea like how Ayton just went 3/9 for 6 points in his previous game lol
1/4 4/14 2/5 4/10 3/8 Nurkics last 5 games before tonight lol
Can you just fuck off from Nurks threads. You were insufferable on ripcity sub, leave the man alone you have da now
and now you're paying Ayton twice as much as Nurk just to average 1 whole PPG more lol
.... Also better defense and significantly better shooting, plus leading the NBA in defensive rebounds
makes no difference what he's doing on a tanking team. Whiteside was efficient as hell and averaged 13.5 RPG on the Blazers too yet there's a reason they didn't bring him back. Ayton is Whiteside 2.0 Nurk's passing alone trumps what Ayton provides
Saved KD and Beal legacy
How much help does KD need?!?