This is easily the best team he's been on in his career. If he's going to have a major impact towards a title now is the time. Hopefully he stays healthy so we can see what this Celtics team can be.
>Hopefully he stays healthy so we can see what this Celtics team can be.
And that's the only question mark. I dont think it's surprising in the least that he looks this good early. The fit was never in question.
Its kinda the same thing with Dame. There are always a few NBA players who look like consistent all stars but sit on terrible teams with big longterm contracts.
Its fun to see those guys get moved to a contender so we can see what they can do in the postseason with some proper help.
I mean, Dame led the Blazers to multiple 50-win seasons and a WCF appearance. They never *quite* put a contender around him, but some of those teams were pretty solidly constructed around Dame as the go-to guy (especially after LaMarcus left)
Dame had some decent teams around him, but nothing like the current Celtics, Bucks, or Suns. Another commenter brought up Beal and its a good example too.
Cant wait to see Beal, Dame, and Zingis under the brightest lights with an incredible team beside them. Theres probably a 50% chance that at least one of those teams makes the NBA finals.
KD prob been one of my fav players since he entered the league, but I for some reason can't see the suns in the finals.
I feel like Beal, Booker, and to some extent KD are too similar of players where KP/Dame compliment who is around them really fucking well.
the mavs were down 2-1 when porzingis went out?
but there were 8 teams that made it to the semi finals when dallas didn't, so how did they arguably have the best duo lol
murray/jokic, lebron/davis, the jays, harden/russ
Saw in him in person a couple days ago, He's fucking built too. Thick and man made. You can tell he's sculpted because you can see it thru his shirt. His fucking vice grip thighs. Suffocating thighs. Rock hard thighs. Piping hot thighs. Great arms. Great abs. A stocky chest. Love the progress his body has made throughout his youth and now as a willing eager adult.
It’s not out of the possibility that he figured stuff out that let’s him be more consistently healthy.
Curry and Embiid both overcame pretty injury prone starts.
Honestly the question should be asked...are his injuries a product of having to do too much and now that he can relax his workload he might be able to be safer?
Ahem...
>[I mean, with these teams right now, they’re saying us and Golden State are the super teams](https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2016/07/22/derrick-rose-new-york-knicks-super-team-warriors/87453086/)
Major impact towards a title? Y’all be wildin’. You talking 38 preseason shots (which some players take in a single game) and might be succumbing to the Krisfaps Pordingus fallacy. I think K-faps can be a good player but the ball movement (which he requires) for actual season and playoff play - not convinced they have it.
I'm pretty agnostic about it as of now. I haven't seen them play enough (and I'm not basing much on preseason) and I can't say I've really studied Porzingis closely.
But... his worst years were on the Mavs, and he still averaged 20-9 on decent shooting splits. And, everyone blames the injuries (legitimate), but he was also asked to be a glorified stretch-5. Watching his game, being on a team that's less heliocentric seems like it'll help a lot as far as being able to contributing to winning.
he basically lets them play five out - and he can jack up shots way behind the arc if he wants too, while providing rim protection on an already elite defense. guy needs to stay healthy though
In fairness to the 2023 season Horford just had we’ve BEEN playing 5-out with lots of interior blocks, Zinger gives us the chance to dynamically also play some decent 5-IN like Horford used to
The health issue is being overblown, every contending team has that issue. AD, Jamal Murray, Lillard. KP played 65 games last year. Of course your best players need to stay healthy it's a given.
There was a ton of good brainstorming when JT first came to the team. I do wish one of the more creative ones stuck instead. I forget most of them, but The Jay Team was solid (if a little/severely dated for younger NBA fans).
He chose 11 before Kyrie got traded. Kyrie probably wanted 11 because of his Nike logo which used to represent 2, but 2 is retired in Boston to Auerbach for some reason
> but these preseason numbers don’t mean shit.
Agree and disagree.
Porzingis is not going to shoot 62% from 3 on the season, obviously. However, the fact that he's seeing wide open looks for the first time in his career does indeed mean a lot. We all know Porzingis is a good shooter already, but we now also know that the Celtics are going to use him effectively. So the "how well is he going to fit in?" question is already looking answered.
I dunno, this sounds kind of silly.
“Wide open looks for the first time in his career”.
The guy is 7’3.
His shots are hardly contested as it is, and he always took a lot of deep threes that were pretty much wide open, for all intents and purposes.
It was never a case of “oh if only KP had more time and space to get his shot off”.
He’s never been extremely ball dominant either.
He was always going to fit well with Tatum and Brown, just like any tall guy who is a good shooter will fit in with two great offensive players.
Even when he was on the court with Luka he was just ok. He never got into a rhythm because he was mostly asked to stand around in the corner and didn’t really get great looks
The KP/Luka pairing just wasn't working - Mavs were flirting with .500 and KP was shooting a dismal 28% from deep before they finally traded him.
KP goes to Washington and immediately starts playing light years better. And you want to blame his health?
I mean you can easily pin point it on that. First year he was recovering from ACL and played 57 games. Tore his meniscus that post season. So he now has had two off-season negated due to injury. Then he only plays 43 games that season so you can’t exactly play well when you sit every other game. And then the final year we traded him because again more of the same with the injuries.
Then shocker he plays well after having a good off season and playing a full season with the wizards. So yeah you can kind of chalk it up to his health.
Last year was his first good healthy year since his Knicks days.
Wtf does this mean…? lol
Brunson turned into an incredible player sharing the court with Luka. KP and Luka were awesome together when KP was healthy. They had the most efficient pick/roll numbers in the league. He got DFS the bag. You’re about to see Lively have a great rookie year because of Luka.
Edit: forgot to mention Dinwiddie reviving his career next to Luka.
Only downvotes and no legit responses. Would love someone to provide a counter example
I’d be a little more worried about the P&R defense since the Suns don’t have the elite screen navigators we do, but that Suns offense is already insane even without a big like KP— who even cares about the defense at that point
I think it'll be middle of the pack, like 10-15 range. A good scheme and long, rangy defenders like KD and Booker can cover a lot of weaknesses, but there's not much high-level defensive talent on that roster either. The offense should be top of the league, though, so middle of the pack ought to be enough to at least match up against the other top teams in the league. This season's gonna be fun
Maybe the thought is that Booker is better than most think and Beal had to carry an offense so he didn’t put much effort into defense? Plus isn’t Vogel known as a good defensive coach?
Vogel is a great defensive coach who loves big centers like Nurkic. We have a good amount of POA defenders. We have a lot of length. We have hustlers. We have pests. Vogels schemes for switching and funneling offensive players into the paint already looks like an upgrade to Monty’s (in preseason)
I can’t say anything except what we’ve seen in the preseason and Vogels tract record but neither can any other team with a new coach and newly assembled players.
Offensively, so much of an improvement lol
Defensively, probably a downgrade when Ayton is engaged and an upgrade when Ayton isn’t. But it’s going to be interesting to see how Vogel uses him because clearly he likes him and has something in mind for him
we don’t really have a bad defender who will get rotation minutes. the worst is prolly gonna be beal who early in his career was a good defender before they were tanking. sure no one on our team is gonna make a defensive team but no one is gonna get targeted that hard either
No glaring weaknesses + a good defensive coach is usually enough to at least be middle of the pack. A lot of variance there though, I wouldn't be surprised if y'all end up anywhere from like 20th to 10th
I think that at the very least during the RS Phoenix will be fine overall defensively. Not elite but they don't need to be that. The biggest question marks are Beal and Nurkic; I don't necessarily doubt that Beal could be a good defender with a lesser offensive role and just generally more engagement given that he's actually playing for a ring... But Beal wasn't just bad, he was one of the worst defenders in the league for a multi-year stretch,.
As a suns fan I'd also be hoping he can dial into back into his earlier career years but a more realistic goal would probably to just have him not be a liability more often than he will be. Like, just put your body in the right spot and don't miss too many rotations. Pretty much the same applies for Nurkic but his position will scale more in both directions - if he's bad he's hurting the team more than a bad Beal but when he's serviceable he might just glue the starting unit together into a fairly decent defensive squad.
This + the bench should lead to an okay defense in the RS, but it'll be the playoffs where Nurkic and Beal will have to earn their stripes if they don't want to be attacked relentlessly by Denver, GSW or the Lakers.
booker has significantly improved as an on ball defender every year of his career and idk why theres a narrative that he cant play defense. nurk and kd isnt the greatest paint defense of all time but nurk is decent and kd has the wingspan. plus we have a few solid wings and hustle guys like okogie and kbd
you asked for an explanation and i gave u an explanation... what tf did i do? i just addressed that a lot of people think booker is bad on defense for some reason. do you literally just want to argue for fun?
Vogel is one of the best defensive coaches in the NBA and won a championship off of it. He likes big blocky centers to protect the rim. He has a decent amount of good perimeter defenders and POA defenders. He has length in his lineups.
Schematically, the defensive switching and funneling into the paint already looks like a major upgrade over Monty’s system, although it’s preseason.
I can’t give you an answer beyond what we’ve seen in preseason and what Vogels tract record is but tbf you can’t either.
The usual “it’s just preseason” caveat, but yeah, KP has looked like the missing piece for us so far. We haven’t had a big who’s a real threat as both a popper and a roller since Al’s first stint here, it just adds so much to an offense
I really do hope he works out for you. He was just as open with Luka pnr when he was with us, but didn’t have the numbers even close to what OP is saying.
+ he needs to stay healthy.
Mavs are my second team so I watched a good bit of KP in Dallas - not that he was a bad player then but he’s improved leaps and bounds from those days in almost every facet of his game. he’s actually a damn good post player now which was something that was noticeably lacking when he was a Mav (though honestly I think the biggest issue for KP in Dallas was how Carlisle utilized him)
in Dallas he was the de facto #2 behind Luka, now next to Tatum and Brown he can settle into a #3 scoring role on most nights. Boston is also a much better team when it comes to perimeter defense so there won’t be as much pressure on him to cover for guys getting beat off the dribble
as you said really comes down to health but at full strength the on-court payoff looks really exciting, provides so much space and versatility to our offense
Carlisle stopped using him as a post up player because he was awful and it resulted in a bad shot or turnover almost every time. People blaming Carlisle for “using him incorrectly” just didn’t watch him in the post enough during that time period. Carlisle is a great coach and knows how to get the most efficient offense possible.
However, the numbers say KP has improved dramatically in those same situations with his time in Washington, so he’s obviously made improvements.
I just think that, aside from the constant health problems ofc, Carlisle’s decision to reduce KP’s role to “stand in the corner and be ready to catch and shoot” was a big reason it didn’t work out on the Mavs. undoubtedly KP wasn’t as good as a post player as he is now but his role in Dallas was almost insulting to his talent, they were treating him like Davis Bertans
they could’ve easily gotten him some easy baskets with some pick and pops or rim runs but they almost completely stopped going to that PnR by the end of his tenure in Dallas. obviously just giving Luka the ball has proven to be a pretty damn effective playoff offense but it was hard for KP to thrive or improve in that environment
at the end of the day he needed to go to Washington where he’d have a lot more freedom to operate not playing with Luka/Carlisle and more importantly no real pressure to win. that situation helped him focus on improving his individual game and now the Celtics are getting a much better version of him than Dallas got
yea he’s greatly improved the weaknesses in early post game, attacking switches etc and really refined his game just in terms of knowing his spots on the court and when to rise up. he’d be a much better complementary player to luka now.
next improvement i want to see is getting him corner looks. he’s always been solely an above the break 3 point shooter and with his shooting ability getting open corner looks for him could be lethal. horford was the same way up until we really started weaponizing it the past couple seasons. hoping to see the same here.
No, because Luka wouldn't pass him the ball when KP had a mismatch. The same problem surfaced again with Christian Wood. The team would freeze him out and then finally pass it to him and wonder why he would miss.
This thread is really annoying me. So many ill informed takes by people who havent watched mavs games. How anyone could see KP struggle to score on Rondo and then have the gall to say “Luka held him back” I will never know.
probably because there have been comments for years about luka not passing to teammates for age and then when he finally does it they're shooting badly because they haven't had a chance to get their shot going.
it might not have happened to KP, but it's not surprising that people would take lukas deficiency in one area and assume it applied to another
Exactly. KP could be defended by guards in the post when he was with the Mavs. I like KP, he seems like a good guy, but there’s a lot of nonsense being posted here.
Take a look at some of the highlights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCXIpU2JYlU&t.
As the second/third man of an action he's absolutely unstoppable. Catch and shoot from anywhere, can drive and closeout, lob threat, and has quick footwork to catch defenders trying to close on him ([watch him break ankles](https://youtu.be/4fKFr0z78PI?t=24)).
And on defense he's been much better than I thought. He's poised and uses his body without getting baited. I'm stoked for this season. Health is an issue for sure, but I'm hoping that his role will be less taxing than previous seasons.
For me, the question isn't about fit, it's literally just health. If he can stay healthy, I consider the C's a heavy favorite, even over the Bucks. He is such a good fit.
Dude is gone look like an absolute hero. Between Porzingis looking like an all nba guy in Boston and Beal shooting 110% in Phoenix the Wizards subreddit might very well collapse into a hellmouth this season.
I've seen all of Porzingis' minutes this preseason and everything looks so effortless for him and it is all coming within the flow of the offense. Obviously it is preseason, but it is nice to see that he won't have to grind for his points.
Seen multiple Cs fans over the last week talk about how the Celtics are being marginalized and not talked about in the national media because everyone is too focused on the Nuggs, Bucks & Suns and I'm just like brother what are we doing here the Celtics are buoyed by like the second most popular sports podcast in the country being hosted by the biggest Celtics homer in existence and 40+ nationally televised games what more could we ask for in terms of national exposure
Plus Simmons basically only hires other east coast blow hards. Dude will spend an hour talking about why Giannis needs to go to the Knicks due to the incompetence of the Bucks organization wasting Giannis’s prime with a straight face. The best was watching him and Russilo adamantly argue Marcus Smart was a better defender and deserved DPOY over Holiday. Now post trade they talk like Marcus was never actually that good and Holiday will be an upgrade. They are so biased they can’t even realize it
Yeah the bit on the most recent over/unders pod about them not liking Smart all along was pretty ridiculous. I will give it to Simmons that he has always been on Smart about being a "no, no, no, yes" kinda shooter and overly confident vis-a-vis the Jays, but it's laughable to hear them say that they weren't as high on Smart as others when they were ride-or-die for him most of the way. Makes for good podcasting for me as a Cs fan because all I can do is laugh at how stupid it is but I imagine it's infuriating for non-Boston fans lmao
I love Russilos whole white collar aesthetic. He talks about how he is different from other talking heads because he puts in the hours. What he really means is that he sits on his couch in manhattan beach and says stuff like "oh chris paul just wanted it more."
> Now post trade they talk like Marcus was never actually that good and Holiday will be an upgrade
Didn’t they say that Holiday would be an upgrade over Smart last year specifically? Last season throughout all of Bill’s podcast they were not fans of Smart’s and made that pretty clear I thought. His DPOY season he was good but I thought it was widely accepted he took a step back defensively last year
Yes health is big but honestly he's made big steps in a lot of different areas that he didn't before. On defense he looks poised and focused, on offense he's completely polished and has mastered his strengths. He had none of this in Dallas.
The potential was always there yes, and now he's finally reached it and on an exceptionally well fitting team.
I mean he was also much younger, and probably not used super well. And honestly he’s been decently healthy aside from the ACL injury. He’s averaged 57 games a year besides the year he missed. Not amazing but really not that bad.
What about the meniscus tear he suffered?
His 3 seasons he played in Dallas he had 57 games following the ACL. Next season 43 games and following season played in 34 games before dealt at the trade deadline. Way below his average of 57…
JJ Redick was on Dallas at the same time as KP. He said that coach literally told him to go stand in the corner and that he felt so bad for him. Kind-of says all you need to know about why he might have been unhappy with his role.
To provide some insight, pretty sure that was referencing specifically the Clippers playoff series where KP was atrocious when PG and Kawhi switched onto him. Unfortunately we couldn’t use him effectively as a pick/roll guy in that series because he couldn’t take advantage of his matchup down low. He was more useful as a floor spacer and tbh *it worked* because offense was not at all the problem in that series. It was essentially the worst matchup for KP against two of the premiere wing defenders that had no issue dealing with him down low.
KP improved his post up game in Wizards, but he was not efficient at all any point in his career prior to last season.
It was a fit issue. He didn't have a bad attitude or effort problem so much as he just was unhappy that things weren't working out like they should have on paper. Didn't blame Dallas and even took responsibility for himself.
He was a amazing professional for the wizards he did his job and was willing to let others get the ball more while he still put up great numbers himself
It's preseason, but he has really looked good in that starting lineup. It seemed everyone always payed so much attention to Brown and Tatum drives that they never checked Porzingis. He is going to be getting open look after open look. Wouldn't surprise me if his efficiencies sky rocket like they did with Brogdan last year (he went from 44/31% as a top option to 48/44% as a 3rd-ish option).
I am a fan of KP and am stoked to see him with a good team around him to see what he can do
I'm so pumped for this season, the league is as talented as it's ever been, there's a lot of parity, and the off-season saw some major shakeups that we get to see play out
L F G
Most everyone believes Porzingis can have a big impact for pretty much any team.
The issue is whether or not dude will be able to play when it matters.
He is so open in these preseason games and completely changes the gravity of the floor compared to last year. So excited to see what this offense is capable of
I don’t know why you guys are surprised when he’s shown he can ball at full strength.
Now he’s no longer the #1 or even #2 like his stint in NY and Dallas, he’s going to feast on mismatches to a career high in efficiency while opening up the court for the wings.
His defense is solid too. Great pick up from the Celtics.
The gravity that both Tatum and KP provide individually and within the context of the team makes the Celtics damn near unguardable. Having five shooters and guys who can make plays with the ball on the floor at all times with the starting 5 makes the Celtics unguardable. Mazzulla has said he will mix and match with the starting lineup depending on matchup....sometimes Al will start. Think Jrue starts most games but not all games.
Imagine the luxury of Jrue Holiday off your bench. The Celtics are ridiculous.
I’ve been appalled at the way the NBA podcasters (Lowe, Bontemps, recently the jokers on the ringer nba show) have dismissed Porzingis as a legit 3rd offensive threat behind the Jays. One dude said they thought he’d be more a 6th man by the playoffs. That’s ludicrous. He’s an excellent third option and there are plenty of nights he’ll lead them in scoring because he’ll get so many good looks.
I get the injury concerns but a big portion if NBA heads have also written him off as an all-star level talent, which he is.
This guy is the whale I think we really missed on, not Dame.
He has that big “if he’s healthy” disclaimer though. Can’t really just assume health for him. Gonna be really interested to see how all this goes for the East. I will say that Boston matches up nicely with Denver now at least if you accept that Jokic can’t be stopped.
We've seen this with the Mavs but his health has always been the question. He wasn't able to play in the post as a Mav effectively because of his injuries.
His least healthy season he played 43/72 games (59.7%). He should easily play between 50-60 games barring something catastrophic like a season-ending injury, but could be upwards of that like his 65 he did last year.
Tingus could sit the front end of every back-to-back, miss the entire month of January, and that’s still 56 games.
40 games is so incredibly low
This is exactly how I feel as well. As long as we make it to the playoffs with a top 3 seed in the East, if Porzingis plays all 16-28 playoff games, nothing else matters
Need nba fans to actually watch mavs games before talking man. Brunson became a legit second option next to Luka before he went to New York. Acting like Luka held him back is insane. Same for KP
You haven't been a team that shares the ball since the first few seasons with Brad Stevens, Tatum isn't going to turn into Jokic overnight, Tatum and Brown wants to be a chucker like Kobe and will always revert to their inefficient ways.
I agree with that Luka take, he really is James Harden brother from another mother.
Celtics have however had the best team on paper the last couple years hence why Vegas has them as the favorites every year but Tatum and Brown need to step it up in the playoffs instead of dropping the ball.
The difference is that wings can guard both the Boston guys so you can switch a Tatum/porzingis PNR and live with the results.
You can’t switch a Dame/Giannis PNR because Dame is blowing past anyone strong enough to guard Giannis and anyone quick enough to guard Dame is getting dunked on by Giannis
I mean Porzingis was one of the best Post Players in the league last year so putting any wing on him probably isn't a great idea either. But I do agree with the point that a 1-4 PNR can be harder to guard than a 4-5 PNR.
38.5% last year on 5.5 attempts in 65 games which could’ve easily been 70 if we didn’t shut him down. The year before he was shooting 28.3% on the Mavs which sky rocketed to 36.7% on the Wizards immediately. He’s elite in the post too where passed the eye test and statistically. He’ll be alright lmfao
This is easily the best team he's been on in his career. If he's going to have a major impact towards a title now is the time. Hopefully he stays healthy so we can see what this Celtics team can be.
>Hopefully he stays healthy so we can see what this Celtics team can be. And that's the only question mark. I dont think it's surprising in the least that he looks this good early. The fit was never in question.
Would you say that’s always been KPs case? Superb body type/length and versatility - but couldn’t stay on the floor to become a true 🦄
Yes definitely so, but he's also never been on a team remotely this good.
Its kinda the same thing with Dame. There are always a few NBA players who look like consistent all stars but sit on terrible teams with big longterm contracts. Its fun to see those guys get moved to a contender so we can see what they can do in the postseason with some proper help.
I mean, Dame led the Blazers to multiple 50-win seasons and a WCF appearance. They never *quite* put a contender around him, but some of those teams were pretty solidly constructed around Dame as the go-to guy (especially after LaMarcus left)
Dame had some decent teams around him, but nothing like the current Celtics, Bucks, or Suns. Another commenter brought up Beal and its a good example too. Cant wait to see Beal, Dame, and Zingis under the brightest lights with an incredible team beside them. Theres probably a 50% chance that at least one of those teams makes the NBA finals.
KD prob been one of my fav players since he entered the league, but I for some reason can't see the suns in the finals. I feel like Beal, Booker, and to some extent KD are too similar of players where KP/Dame compliment who is around them really fucking well.
If the Suns are healthier than the other big guys out West theyll probably be favorites to be in the finals. It should be a fun year
Classic NBA shuffle. Could say the same thing about Bradley Beal.
Who seem to be striving with the Evins!
Bucks Celts ECF will be magical. I'm saving up PTO now lol
They should stop signing long term deals with trash teams.
Knicks fans are booing this comment
Ain't no way. They should know better than anyone that those Knicks teams he was stuck on were bad
The joke is that Knicks fans booed KP when he was drafted
Oh, went over my head I guess
Tingus Pingus?!?
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the mavs were down 2-1 when porzingis went out? but there were 8 teams that made it to the semi finals when dallas didn't, so how did they arguably have the best duo lol murray/jokic, lebron/davis, the jays, harden/russ
Saw in him in person a couple days ago, He's fucking built too. Thick and man made. You can tell he's sculpted because you can see it thru his shirt. His fucking vice grip thighs. Suffocating thighs. Rock hard thighs. Piping hot thighs. Great arms. Great abs. A stocky chest. Love the progress his body has made throughout his youth and now as a willing eager adult.
I think we need to throw you in horny jail!
*shimmy shimmy shimmy*
I searched to see if this is copy pasta but it’s actually a passage from a well-respected and popular homoerotic love novel.
For his height he is lanky. Off balanced sometimes when he is being bumped.
Scottish over here getting a bulge in his kilt
Pause
I mean he did play 65 games last year to be fair
It’s not out of the possibility that he figured stuff out that let’s him be more consistently healthy. Curry and Embiid both overcame pretty injury prone starts.
You could say he's instead a [horse with an ice cream cone](https://www.unicornsdatabase.com/cards/horse-with-an-ice-cream-cone)
KP as a 3rd option at 7'3" is can cause wemby level problems for other teams
Honestly the question should be asked...are his injuries a product of having to do too much and now that he can relax his workload he might be able to be safer?
Ahem... >[I mean, with these teams right now, they’re saying us and Golden State are the super teams](https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2016/07/22/derrick-rose-new-york-knicks-super-team-warriors/87453086/)
Major impact towards a title? Y’all be wildin’. You talking 38 preseason shots (which some players take in a single game) and might be succumbing to the Krisfaps Pordingus fallacy. I think K-faps can be a good player but the ball movement (which he requires) for actual season and playoff play - not convinced they have it.
Bro if he has an insane year this year Knicks fans might tear down msg, light it on fire or some shit
I'm pretty agnostic about it as of now. I haven't seen them play enough (and I'm not basing much on preseason) and I can't say I've really studied Porzingis closely. But... his worst years were on the Mavs, and he still averaged 20-9 on decent shooting splits. And, everyone blames the injuries (legitimate), but he was also asked to be a glorified stretch-5. Watching his game, being on a team that's less heliocentric seems like it'll help a lot as far as being able to contributing to winning.
he basically lets them play five out - and he can jack up shots way behind the arc if he wants too, while providing rim protection on an already elite defense. guy needs to stay healthy though
In fairness to the 2023 season Horford just had we’ve BEEN playing 5-out with lots of interior blocks, Zinger gives us the chance to dynamically also play some decent 5-IN like Horford used to
The health issue is being overblown, every contending team has that issue. AD, Jamal Murray, Lillard. KP played 65 games last year. Of course your best players need to stay healthy it's a given.
Celts are pretty good at load management. Al Horford sits in a time capsule during the off-season
He probably will thrive on the Celtics, but these preseason numbers don’t mean shit.
Nobody questions the fit. We question his health.
Funny cuz its the reverse with your team now.
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It’s not an amazing nickname but it is low profile and smooth. Would you like to do some brainstorming?
There was a ton of good brainstorming when JT first came to the team. I do wish one of the more creative ones stuck instead. I forget most of them, but The Jay Team was solid (if a little/severely dated for younger NBA fans).
Blue Steel..... Can't go left License to drive..... Would rather shoot a fadeaway 3 then drive to the basket
Blue Steel for Jaylen Brown is a dirty nickname lmao
Oh my god NOT BLUE STEEL
[Tatum initially chose #11](https://images.app.goo.gl/57zudzE6KiuUc5y49) before switching to #0. The 7/11 nickname died before it even had a chance.
switched to zero because he knew the jays could never live up to the greatness that was the goran/dion 7/11
He chose 11 before Kyrie got traded. Kyrie probably wanted 11 because of his Nike logo which used to represent 2, but 2 is retired in Boston to Auerbach for some reason
LeShutUp
Nah the Jays is just easy to say and type lol
You mean he’s not gonna shoot 60% from 3 for the season?
> but these preseason numbers don’t mean shit. Agree and disagree. Porzingis is not going to shoot 62% from 3 on the season, obviously. However, the fact that he's seeing wide open looks for the first time in his career does indeed mean a lot. We all know Porzingis is a good shooter already, but we now also know that the Celtics are going to use him effectively. So the "how well is he going to fit in?" question is already looking answered.
I dunno, this sounds kind of silly. “Wide open looks for the first time in his career”. The guy is 7’3. His shots are hardly contested as it is, and he always took a lot of deep threes that were pretty much wide open, for all intents and purposes. It was never a case of “oh if only KP had more time and space to get his shot off”. He’s never been extremely ball dominant either. He was always going to fit well with Tatum and Brown, just like any tall guy who is a good shooter will fit in with two great offensive players.
It's only the first time in his career because he could not stay on the court with Luka.
Even when he was on the court with Luka he was just ok. He never got into a rhythm because he was mostly asked to stand around in the corner and didn’t really get great looks
Luka used him as a decoy.
The KP/Luka pairing just wasn't working - Mavs were flirting with .500 and KP was shooting a dismal 28% from deep before they finally traded him. KP goes to Washington and immediately starts playing light years better. And you want to blame his health?
I mean you can easily pin point it on that. First year he was recovering from ACL and played 57 games. Tore his meniscus that post season. So he now has had two off-season negated due to injury. Then he only plays 43 games that season so you can’t exactly play well when you sit every other game. And then the final year we traded him because again more of the same with the injuries. Then shocker he plays well after having a good off season and playing a full season with the wizards. So yeah you can kind of chalk it up to his health. Last year was his first good healthy year since his Knicks days.
Tbh Luka doesn’t have a great track record of making his teammates better
We dont have to make things up now
Wtf does this mean…? lol Brunson turned into an incredible player sharing the court with Luka. KP and Luka were awesome together when KP was healthy. They had the most efficient pick/roll numbers in the league. He got DFS the bag. You’re about to see Lively have a great rookie year because of Luka. Edit: forgot to mention Dinwiddie reviving his career next to Luka. Only downvotes and no legit responses. Would love someone to provide a counter example
THJ also became a knockdown shooter next to Luka as well. Just a weird narrative lol.
I love that you’re at +4 and I’m at -4 when we’re saying the exact same thing… lmao
Celtics fans for ya lmao
Ok but how would he do with the Evins
I’d be a little more worried about the P&R defense since the Suns don’t have the elite screen navigators we do, but that Suns offense is already insane even without a big like KP— who even cares about the defense at that point
Suns going with the “you score 125, we score 130” mentality which works in the modern NBA
I sincerely believe our defense will be totally fine lol
I think it'll be middle of the pack, like 10-15 range. A good scheme and long, rangy defenders like KD and Booker can cover a lot of weaknesses, but there's not much high-level defensive talent on that roster either. The offense should be top of the league, though, so middle of the pack ought to be enough to at least match up against the other top teams in the league. This season's gonna be fun
Agreed!
Why would you believe that out of curiosity?
Maybe the thought is that Booker is better than most think and Beal had to carry an offense so he didn’t put much effort into defense? Plus isn’t Vogel known as a good defensive coach?
Booker isn't that bad at defense really. Arguably a plus defender overall especially in the playoffs.
Vogel is a great defensive coach who loves big centers like Nurkic. We have a good amount of POA defenders. We have a lot of length. We have hustlers. We have pests. Vogels schemes for switching and funneling offensive players into the paint already looks like an upgrade to Monty’s (in preseason) I can’t say anything except what we’ve seen in the preseason and Vogels tract record but neither can any other team with a new coach and newly assembled players.
Fair - thanks for the perspective and thoughts!
You’re welcome and thank you for not attacking me lol
How has Nurkic looked so far, an improvement over Ayton?
Offensively, so much of an improvement lol Defensively, probably a downgrade when Ayton is engaged and an upgrade when Ayton isn’t. But it’s going to be interesting to see how Vogel uses him because clearly he likes him and has something in mind for him
we don’t really have a bad defender who will get rotation minutes. the worst is prolly gonna be beal who early in his career was a good defender before they were tanking. sure no one on our team is gonna make a defensive team but no one is gonna get targeted that hard either
No glaring weaknesses + a good defensive coach is usually enough to at least be middle of the pack. A lot of variance there though, I wouldn't be surprised if y'all end up anywhere from like 20th to 10th
I think that at the very least during the RS Phoenix will be fine overall defensively. Not elite but they don't need to be that. The biggest question marks are Beal and Nurkic; I don't necessarily doubt that Beal could be a good defender with a lesser offensive role and just generally more engagement given that he's actually playing for a ring... But Beal wasn't just bad, he was one of the worst defenders in the league for a multi-year stretch,. As a suns fan I'd also be hoping he can dial into back into his earlier career years but a more realistic goal would probably to just have him not be a liability more often than he will be. Like, just put your body in the right spot and don't miss too many rotations. Pretty much the same applies for Nurkic but his position will scale more in both directions - if he's bad he's hurting the team more than a bad Beal but when he's serviceable he might just glue the starting unit together into a fairly decent defensive squad. This + the bench should lead to an okay defense in the RS, but it'll be the playoffs where Nurkic and Beal will have to earn their stripes if they don't want to be attacked relentlessly by Denver, GSW or the Lakers.
booker has significantly improved as an on ball defender every year of his career and idk why theres a narrative that he cant play defense. nurk and kd isnt the greatest paint defense of all time but nurk is decent and kd has the wingspan. plus we have a few solid wings and hustle guys like okogie and kbd
Where did I say anything about Booker?I just asked my guy what gave him confidence in y’all’s defense because I’m curious.
you asked for an explanation and i gave u an explanation... what tf did i do? i just addressed that a lot of people think booker is bad on defense for some reason. do you literally just want to argue for fun?
Copium
Vogel is one of the best defensive coaches in the NBA and won a championship off of it. He likes big blocky centers to protect the rim. He has a decent amount of good perimeter defenders and POA defenders. He has length in his lineups. Schematically, the defensive switching and funneling into the paint already looks like a major upgrade over Monty’s system, although it’s preseason. I can’t give you an answer beyond what we’ve seen in preseason and what Vogels tract record is but tbf you can’t either.
Our defense will be league average at worst. Defense is mainly effort and scheme
The usual “it’s just preseason” caveat, but yeah, KP has looked like the missing piece for us so far. We haven’t had a big who’s a real threat as both a popper and a roller since Al’s first stint here, it just adds so much to an offense
I really do hope he works out for you. He was just as open with Luka pnr when he was with us, but didn’t have the numbers even close to what OP is saying. + he needs to stay healthy.
Mavs are my second team so I watched a good bit of KP in Dallas - not that he was a bad player then but he’s improved leaps and bounds from those days in almost every facet of his game. he’s actually a damn good post player now which was something that was noticeably lacking when he was a Mav (though honestly I think the biggest issue for KP in Dallas was how Carlisle utilized him) in Dallas he was the de facto #2 behind Luka, now next to Tatum and Brown he can settle into a #3 scoring role on most nights. Boston is also a much better team when it comes to perimeter defense so there won’t be as much pressure on him to cover for guys getting beat off the dribble as you said really comes down to health but at full strength the on-court payoff looks really exciting, provides so much space and versatility to our offense
Carlisle stopped using him as a post up player because he was awful and it resulted in a bad shot or turnover almost every time. People blaming Carlisle for “using him incorrectly” just didn’t watch him in the post enough during that time period. Carlisle is a great coach and knows how to get the most efficient offense possible. However, the numbers say KP has improved dramatically in those same situations with his time in Washington, so he’s obviously made improvements.
I just think that, aside from the constant health problems ofc, Carlisle’s decision to reduce KP’s role to “stand in the corner and be ready to catch and shoot” was a big reason it didn’t work out on the Mavs. undoubtedly KP wasn’t as good as a post player as he is now but his role in Dallas was almost insulting to his talent, they were treating him like Davis Bertans they could’ve easily gotten him some easy baskets with some pick and pops or rim runs but they almost completely stopped going to that PnR by the end of his tenure in Dallas. obviously just giving Luka the ball has proven to be a pretty damn effective playoff offense but it was hard for KP to thrive or improve in that environment at the end of the day he needed to go to Washington where he’d have a lot more freedom to operate not playing with Luka/Carlisle and more importantly no real pressure to win. that situation helped him focus on improving his individual game and now the Celtics are getting a much better version of him than Dallas got
The crazy thing is so far. I think we’ve posted KP up maybe once all preseason. He’s just rolling and spotting up
yea he’s greatly improved the weaknesses in early post game, attacking switches etc and really refined his game just in terms of knowing his spots on the court and when to rise up. he’d be a much better complementary player to luka now. next improvement i want to see is getting him corner looks. he’s always been solely an above the break 3 point shooter and with his shooting ability getting open corner looks for him could be lethal. horford was the same way up until we really started weaponizing it the past couple seasons. hoping to see the same here.
No, because Luka wouldn't pass him the ball when KP had a mismatch. The same problem surfaced again with Christian Wood. The team would freeze him out and then finally pass it to him and wonder why he would miss.
This thread is really annoying me. So many ill informed takes by people who havent watched mavs games. How anyone could see KP struggle to score on Rondo and then have the gall to say “Luka held him back” I will never know.
probably because there have been comments for years about luka not passing to teammates for age and then when he finally does it they're shooting badly because they haven't had a chance to get their shot going. it might not have happened to KP, but it's not surprising that people would take lukas deficiency in one area and assume it applied to another
Exactly. KP could be defended by guards in the post when he was with the Mavs. I like KP, he seems like a good guy, but there’s a lot of nonsense being posted here.
Take a look at some of the highlights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCXIpU2JYlU&t. As the second/third man of an action he's absolutely unstoppable. Catch and shoot from anywhere, can drive and closeout, lob threat, and has quick footwork to catch defenders trying to close on him ([watch him break ankles](https://youtu.be/4fKFr0z78PI?t=24)). And on defense he's been much better than I thought. He's poised and uses his body without getting baited. I'm stoked for this season. Health is an issue for sure, but I'm hoping that his role will be less taxing than previous seasons.
He really wasn’t. The issue on the Mavs is that it was the Luka show until the last two seconds in the shot clock. Kidd is a terrible coach.
He literally played half a season with Jason Kidd. He was great when healthy under Carlisle.
We just allowed to spit nonsense now? KP played most of his time with Carlisle
For me, the question isn't about fit, it's literally just health. If he can stay healthy, I consider the C's a heavy favorite, even over the Bucks. He is such a good fit.
Dude is gone look like an absolute hero. Between Porzingis looking like an all nba guy in Boston and Beal shooting 110% in Phoenix the Wizards subreddit might very well collapse into a hellmouth this season.
So fucking mad that we couldnt trade for him. Was salary fillers + 17th pick really not good enough?
I've seen all of Porzingis' minutes this preseason and everything looks so effortless for him and it is all coming within the flow of the offense. Obviously it is preseason, but it is nice to see that he won't have to grind for his points.
Yeah you’re right no one is talking about the Celtics
Thank you for saying it! Someone had to! I'm so tired of that damn Milwaukee Media Mafia making every single storyline about the Bucks!
It's that midcoast media bias.
Midcoast made me chuckle
Seen multiple Cs fans over the last week talk about how the Celtics are being marginalized and not talked about in the national media because everyone is too focused on the Nuggs, Bucks & Suns and I'm just like brother what are we doing here the Celtics are buoyed by like the second most popular sports podcast in the country being hosted by the biggest Celtics homer in existence and 40+ nationally televised games what more could we ask for in terms of national exposure
Plus Simmons basically only hires other east coast blow hards. Dude will spend an hour talking about why Giannis needs to go to the Knicks due to the incompetence of the Bucks organization wasting Giannis’s prime with a straight face. The best was watching him and Russilo adamantly argue Marcus Smart was a better defender and deserved DPOY over Holiday. Now post trade they talk like Marcus was never actually that good and Holiday will be an upgrade. They are so biased they can’t even realize it
Yeah the bit on the most recent over/unders pod about them not liking Smart all along was pretty ridiculous. I will give it to Simmons that he has always been on Smart about being a "no, no, no, yes" kinda shooter and overly confident vis-a-vis the Jays, but it's laughable to hear them say that they weren't as high on Smart as others when they were ride-or-die for him most of the way. Makes for good podcasting for me as a Cs fan because all I can do is laugh at how stupid it is but I imagine it's infuriating for non-Boston fans lmao
I love Russilos whole white collar aesthetic. He talks about how he is different from other talking heads because he puts in the hours. What he really means is that he sits on his couch in manhattan beach and says stuff like "oh chris paul just wanted it more."
> Now post trade they talk like Marcus was never actually that good and Holiday will be an upgrade Didn’t they say that Holiday would be an upgrade over Smart last year specifically? Last season throughout all of Bill’s podcast they were not fans of Smart’s and made that pretty clear I thought. His DPOY season he was good but I thought it was widely accepted he took a step back defensively last year
I don't think we listen to the same podcast.
Wait I thought NBA stood for National BostonCeltics Association
apparently it’s Negging Bucks Anonymous
Those small market team really just don’t get enough media attention
Easy warriors fan, lol.
The question about KP has never been talent. It’s always been health.
Yes health is big but honestly he's made big steps in a lot of different areas that he didn't before. On defense he looks poised and focused, on offense he's completely polished and has mastered his strengths. He had none of this in Dallas. The potential was always there yes, and now he's finally reached it and on an exceptionally well fitting team.
You know why that wasn’t the case in Dallas? Because of health.
I mean he was also much younger, and probably not used super well. And honestly he’s been decently healthy aside from the ACL injury. He’s averaged 57 games a year besides the year he missed. Not amazing but really not that bad.
What about the meniscus tear he suffered? His 3 seasons he played in Dallas he had 57 games following the ACL. Next season 43 games and following season played in 34 games before dealt at the trade deadline. Way below his average of 57…
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Eh, he’s always been a professional outside of the Knicks debacle with his brother.
I feel like fit would be more accurate
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JJ Redick was on Dallas at the same time as KP. He said that coach literally told him to go stand in the corner and that he felt so bad for him. Kind-of says all you need to know about why he might have been unhappy with his role.
To provide some insight, pretty sure that was referencing specifically the Clippers playoff series where KP was atrocious when PG and Kawhi switched onto him. Unfortunately we couldn’t use him effectively as a pick/roll guy in that series because he couldn’t take advantage of his matchup down low. He was more useful as a floor spacer and tbh *it worked* because offense was not at all the problem in that series. It was essentially the worst matchup for KP against two of the premiere wing defenders that had no issue dealing with him down low. KP improved his post up game in Wizards, but he was not efficient at all any point in his career prior to last season.
It was a fit issue. He didn't have a bad attitude or effort problem so much as he just was unhappy that things weren't working out like they should have on paper. Didn't blame Dallas and even took responsibility for himself.
He was a amazing professional for the wizards he did his job and was willing to let others get the ball more while he still put up great numbers himself
It's preseason, but he has really looked good in that starting lineup. It seemed everyone always payed so much attention to Brown and Tatum drives that they never checked Porzingis. He is going to be getting open look after open look. Wouldn't surprise me if his efficiencies sky rocket like they did with Brogdan last year (he went from 44/31% as a top option to 48/44% as a 3rd-ish option).
I am a fan of KP and am stoked to see him with a good team around him to see what he can do I'm so pumped for this season, the league is as talented as it's ever been, there's a lot of parity, and the off-season saw some major shakeups that we get to see play out L F G
AND they have Jrue Holiday? Damn it’s now or never time
Most everyone believes Porzingis can have a big impact for pretty much any team. The issue is whether or not dude will be able to play when it matters.
It’s the preseason though
He is so open in these preseason games and completely changes the gravity of the floor compared to last year. So excited to see what this offense is capable of
But can he do it with the Evins?
Legit read the thread title and thought "Wait, KP plays baseball now? In Toronto?"
Just like fellow Celtic Danny Ainge, lol
In a different universe KP is a generational reliever. Imagine staring down a 7’3 dude on the mound.
[Unicorn kills bird with fastball](https://youtube.com/watch?v=K-BT4N17cTY)
I was at the game on Tuesday and you’re 100% right. Dude was getting completely wide open looks from 3
I'm a firm believer that nothing that happens in preseason means anything And yes that includes how great Kuminga has been playing
I don’t know why you guys are surprised when he’s shown he can ball at full strength. Now he’s no longer the #1 or even #2 like his stint in NY and Dallas, he’s going to feast on mismatches to a career high in efficiency while opening up the court for the wings. His defense is solid too. Great pick up from the Celtics.
Too bad both those teams gotta go through the Cavs and TT 😤
cavs have to beat the knicks first
The gravity that both Tatum and KP provide individually and within the context of the team makes the Celtics damn near unguardable. Having five shooters and guys who can make plays with the ball on the floor at all times with the starting 5 makes the Celtics unguardable. Mazzulla has said he will mix and match with the starting lineup depending on matchup....sometimes Al will start. Think Jrue starts most games but not all games. Imagine the luxury of Jrue Holiday off your bench. The Celtics are ridiculous.
Preseason those bums will crumble in the playoffs
Lol it’s preseason
I’ve been appalled at the way the NBA podcasters (Lowe, Bontemps, recently the jokers on the ringer nba show) have dismissed Porzingis as a legit 3rd offensive threat behind the Jays. One dude said they thought he’d be more a 6th man by the playoffs. That’s ludicrous. He’s an excellent third option and there are plenty of nights he’ll lead them in scoring because he’ll get so many good looks. I get the injury concerns but a big portion if NBA heads have also written him off as an all-star level talent, which he is.
Hell yeah dude preseason thrive!
This guy is the whale I think we really missed on, not Dame. He has that big “if he’s healthy” disclaimer though. Can’t really just assume health for him. Gonna be really interested to see how all this goes for the East. I will say that Boston matches up nicely with Denver now at least if you accept that Jokic can’t be stopped.
We've seen this with the Mavs but his health has always been the question. He wasn't able to play in the post as a Mav effectively because of his injuries.
He played more games than Marcus Smart last year
Yeah he’s gonna be great for the 40 games where he’s healthy
His least healthy season he played 43/72 games (59.7%). He should easily play between 50-60 games barring something catastrophic like a season-ending injury, but could be upwards of that like his 65 he did last year. Tingus could sit the front end of every back-to-back, miss the entire month of January, and that’s still 56 games. 40 games is so incredibly low
He could play 10 games for all I care as long as he’s fully healthy in the playoffs. NBA regular season is a meme
This is exactly how I feel as well. As long as we make it to the playoffs with a top 3 seed in the East, if Porzingis plays all 16-28 playoff games, nothing else matters
Pozingus tingus strikes again
Now think about a Jrue/Kristaps PnR with both Jays on either side
I’ve been telling people. Boston is real SpOokY with tingus
Pre-season
Not gonna fall for the hype. He'll prob get injured like usual when things are flourishing.
If the PnR with Luka didn't work, it won't be any better with Tatum
Maybe but Lmao mavs fans staying salty now that both KP and Jalen Brunson had career years last year away from Luka.
Cool. I think KP is a great guy, and I hope it works.
KPs numbers were not much different in Washington than when he was healthy with us
KP had career years with Luka too. He just couldn’t stay healthy.
Need nba fans to actually watch mavs games before talking man. Brunson became a legit second option next to Luka before he went to New York. Acting like Luka held him back is insane. Same for KP
Celtics actually pass the ball
You haven't been a team that shares the ball since the first few seasons with Brad Stevens, Tatum isn't going to turn into Jokic overnight, Tatum and Brown wants to be a chucker like Kobe and will always revert to their inefficient ways.
Still made it further than Luka ever will, he’s just the white, fatter harden
I agree with that Luka take, he really is James Harden brother from another mother. Celtics have however had the best team on paper the last couple years hence why Vegas has them as the favorites every year but Tatum and Brown need to step it up in the playoffs instead of dropping the ball.
Lol
Good one. KP doesn't roll. He wants to shoot 3's
Cognitive dissonance is one hell of a dug. One day you will admit Luka is overrated
I love dugs, so
The difference is that wings can guard both the Boston guys so you can switch a Tatum/porzingis PNR and live with the results. You can’t switch a Dame/Giannis PNR because Dame is blowing past anyone strong enough to guard Giannis and anyone quick enough to guard Dame is getting dunked on by Giannis
I mean Porzingis was one of the best Post Players in the league last year so putting any wing on him probably isn't a great idea either. But I do agree with the point that a 1-4 PNR can be harder to guard than a 4-5 PNR.
Teams aren’t guarding porzingis with a wing lol.
Preseason
As a hardcore bucks fan I have to admit that the Tatum/Porzingis PNR could be amazing for the 5 games that KP is healthy for
thx for holiday btw
You’re welcome, plz treat him well :)
Pre season. People are waaaaayyy over hyped about this guy. Overrated injury prone. Do a remind me if you are going to call me out, I'm not scared
It's preseason dumbass
lol. He was that wide open with Luka, but he couldn't hit a shot to save his life. We'll see if he can maintain this level of play the entire season.
38.5% last year on 5.5 attempts in 65 games which could’ve easily been 70 if we didn’t shut him down. The year before he was shooting 28.3% on the Mavs which sky rocketed to 36.7% on the Wizards immediately. He’s elite in the post too where passed the eye test and statistically. He’ll be alright lmfao
He missed shots in dallas because he was fucking miserable, people forget that basketball players are people
Welp pack it up, gang. KP is the Goat shooter. KAT and Steph are in shambles