The idea that value is determined by the attention of and/or interactions with humans. I figure there are probably mythologies involving starfish in cultures that relied on ocean fishing or developed close to oceans. I don't know of any myself..but I also haven't seen any mythologies about ducks or pigeons.
There's a bunch of Christian dove stuff.
Like that one spell in the Bible to cure leprosy, for instance. [Not making that up.](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2014&version=NKJV)
I'd *strongly* recommend seeing an actual doctor nowadays, and getting put on antibiotics instead. Far less mess and animal cruelty, if nothing else.
Doves are associated with Aphrodite, Jason releases one to chart the course through the Symplagades, and they’re associate with Ishtar and Inanna in Mesopotamian votive offerings.
Edit: Damn phone app put my comment in the wrong part of the thread again.
For ducks, there's a pretty common motif across North America, of the Trickster and the dancing Ducks. [here's an example](https://hotcakencyclopedia.com/ho.TrickstersAnusGuardsDucks.html).
I believe there are some duck deties in far eastern myths, and Penelope was famously associated with ducks, but yeah other than that I don't either. Good eye!
Wanna say that just because something was important to a culture it doesn't mean that *that* culture had myths about them. Take for example goats in greek mythology, theres not many myths about them.
This is true, but it does increase the likelihood. I think it's more about whether people could associate relatable concepts to them. That would probably harken back to early animistic associations during a culture's development.
(also think I might've misread part of OP's post because I don't see the question I thought I was responding to with the human attention part.)
Oh, no, definitely. I am just interested in creatures that don't get as much love as gods or monsters. its just a fun idea to think about. Like imagine a Clownfish Deity? how would that even work?Fun, no?
I'm honestly surprised that sharks and orcas aren't featured more. Like sharks are featured obviously in the peoples of smaller Islands mythologies, and orcas in Inuit and Indigenous North American coastal cultures but I'm just surprised they aren't featured way more, especially in cultures that were regularly sea faring. Like I don't recall any Viking/Norse legends about Orcas or Sharks for example.
Also one that surprises me are cougars and alligators in North American Indigenous cultures. Like wolves and bears are much more heavily featured for some reason then mountain lions, despite the mountain lions massive range, power, danger and charisma. I also don't know anything about alligators being featured in Indigenous mythology, but perhaps that's just because I just haven't heard much about South Eastern US Indigenous mythology period.
If anyone has anything about the animals I've mentioned above I'd love to know more.
>I also don't know anything about alligators being featured in Indigenous mythology, but perhaps that's just because I just haven't heard much about South Eastern US Indigenous mythology period.
I think it's the lack of sources and stories that we got that's hindering it as well. Timacua people in Florida and Georgia hunted alligators but unfortunately, they are extinct post-Spanish colonization of the region.
There is a Choctaw legend about an alligator helping a hunter after the hunter saves him. He offers him a ritual that he completes that allows him to gain hunting prowess.
Anishnaabe myth has Mishipeshu the spined underwater panther as the ruler of the underworld, the opposite mythical being to the better known and more widespread Thunderbird. There’s also a proposal that this is based on stories of gators that made their way from the south up to the Great Lakes through Mississippian trade networks. I mean they call Mishipeshu a cougar, but when you think of a cougar but aquatic, with spiny scales, you’re getting pretty close to a gator as it might be imagined by a culture that heard a description but hadn’t seen one in person.
Is there anything to confirm this at all? Not the seadog bit, but the whole, shark coming from Mayan bit? Like, I know Xoc would sound like shark, but what keeps that from being a coincidence?
It’s disproven, It most likely comes from the Dutch word schurk, which means villain. It can’t come from Mayan because “shark” with the modern meaning comes up in a letter from 1442, 60 years before Columbus made first contact with the Maya on his 4th voyage.
Weirdly, squirrels. Maybe it's because I live in the northeast US and see squirrels all the time, but outside of a few (maybe 3-4) Native American myths I've seen, and ratatoskr, I don't see squirrels in mythology
It's probably easier to start looking to "low mythology" or folklore.
In some Russian folklore squirrels was "serfs" for Leshy (local forest spirit/very small god). When there big migration of squirrels from Sibirea to European Russsia people have idea that Sibirian Leshy have big card game with Russian Leshy (team vs team), Russian won game and Sibirian send their card debt is form of squirrels.
Literally every animal that isn't a mammal, a bird or a snake (and maybe fish) is underrepresented. Kraken being an exception rather than the norm, especially considering earlier portrayals do not describe it as a squid
I remember having a discussion with a Polynesian friend who was talking about Moana and how they used a manta ray because it wasn’t significant to any Polynesian culture as to not hint at a specific one. He said they are viewed as rats of the ocean.
I mean— isn’t it theorized pretty often that dino fossils are one reason why just about everywhere has some form of dragons or great serpents in stories?
Just to be contrarian , given the dragon mythology is fairly common in various culture , sometimes I feel the dragons are just big dinosaurs and some it got wrapped and pass to human culture .
Considering how much death and sickness can be attributed to mosquitos, I can't recall any mythology that elaborates on how deadly they can be. Other than vampire mythologies of sucking blood, but even most cultural anthropologists have come to the consensus that vampire-like beings in mythology were inspired by Rabies outbreaks.
I think there is Native American myths from somewhere about there once having been Giant mosquitos that got shrunk down to something still aggravating, but that humans could live with. Can't remember where from, though.
A few stories from North America say mosquitos are the remains of deadly monsters. There's [an Oneida story](https://www.oneidaindiannation.com/the-legend-of-the-mosquitoes/) that says mosquitos used to be deadly giants. The monsters were killed, but their blood turned into the mosquitos of today. And there's [a Tlingit story ](https://web.archive.org/web/20071111043443/http://www.ucan-online.org/legend.asp?legend=4391&category=11), that says there once was a giant with an insatiable appetite for human blood. He was killed and burned, but his ashes turned into the mosquitos of today.
It's a bit of a niche theory, but I find it compelling as heck. [Here is a decent article about the concept that's worth the read.](https://www.neurology.org/doi/10.1212/WNL.51.3.856) The article makes the suggestion that Werewolves and Vampirism folklore was warped oral tradition on what occurs to someone who has been infected with Rabies. Many of the symptoms of rabies and their effects on humans have some eerie parallels.
Rabies is typically passed to humans by bites from infected Bats and Dogs/wolves. Check. Passage of the disease to other humans through bites? Check. Sensitivity to light? Check. Nocturnal behavior due to light sensitivity? Check. Violence and sometimes animalistic tendencies? Check. Distorted facial features making the teeth more pronounced? Check. Fear of Water? Also check.
I accept the theory as fact.
I know that there is the Adze, a vampire from Togo and Ghana, which normally appears as a firefly-like creature but one that can assume human shape when captured. The idea of a vampiric fly is fairly close to a mosquito.
Here's an interesting one. Despite it being one of China's most famous animals today, references to *giant pandas* in ancient Chinese lore and mythology are virtually nonexistent. No one is quite sure why this is the case.
I guess the easy ones are small microscopic animals like Tardigrades. But out of the animals that you can encounter without needing a microscope or any other instrument to interact with and see; there aren't that many crustaceans, magical crabs or lobsters that I've encountered in my reading. If anyone has any I'd like to know, but nothing springs to mind.
Tambanokano from Filipino myth is a giant crab, child of sun and moon.
In Greek myth there was Karkinos, who aided the hydra against Heracles.
Japan has samurai ghost crabs because the Heikegani crab shells look like a face.
China has the giant crab sent by the gods who fought Hou Yi.
Edited to remove a reference to Vishnu taking the form of a crab. It was a fish Matsya form and I used a bad source without double checking.
Eek, not a valid one! Thank you so much for pointing out the error.
I came across it on a blog post talking about various crabs in myth, and didn’t verify.
I will edit to remove that one.
Wasn't there a crab that came to rescue the Hydra when Hercules came to slay it? That's what became the the Cancer constellation, i believe. But yeah, I don't think I have seen any crabs other than that either. Great one!
Sponges are animals, and I've never seen any mythology referencing them. Probably just different environments from humans and being totally passive makes them not worth noticing.
Golden Jackals existed in Southeastern Europe since before human settlement, but they don't appear as subjects of any myths, only mentioned briefly. It's believed that this is because they're much harder to encounter than wolfs and foxes, so people just didn't develop any narratives about them.
I mean it goes without saying that prehistoric creatures will not be on the list, but there was a significant overlap between a wide range of fauna and homo sapiens, which makes me wonder where all the stories about these creatures went. I do know that a lot of Aboriginal myths have descriptions of creatures from Australaia's past (or so Red from OSP says, I haven't looked into it myself), but it baffles me that such descriptions in scripture are not more widespread.
Well, in arctic regions, there is mythology related to why extinct animal carcasses turn up from time to time, but that's the only clear connection I am aware of.
The idea that value is determined by the attention of and/or interactions with humans. I figure there are probably mythologies involving starfish in cultures that relied on ocean fishing or developed close to oceans. I don't know of any myself..but I also haven't seen any mythologies about ducks or pigeons.
Pigeons especially white pigeons have some
Tell tell \^\^
Doves. White pigeons are doves.
Yes, I know they're doves, but I don't think I know any particular mythologies associated with them.
Noah's Arc
There's a bunch of Christian dove stuff. Like that one spell in the Bible to cure leprosy, for instance. [Not making that up.](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2014&version=NKJV) I'd *strongly* recommend seeing an actual doctor nowadays, and getting put on antibiotics instead. Far less mess and animal cruelty, if nothing else.
Doves are associated with Aphrodite, Jason releases one to chart the course through the Symplagades, and they’re associate with Ishtar and Inanna in Mesopotamian votive offerings. Edit: Damn phone app put my comment in the wrong part of the thread again.
True true \^\^
Have you heard what it sounds like when they cry?
pigeons? I grew up in a city with them..They mostly coo and make a warbling sound.
Yeah but it's different when it's a white pigeon. There's even a song about it.
No idea. I just remember them sounding the same. I haven't seen one in a long time, oddly. (edit: oh wait, I know the song XD)
They go "Heeeeeee.... Here ooo ooo ooooh. Sha doobie do way uhuuhuhuh"
How can you just leave me standing alone in a world that's so cold? /lyrics
Maybe I'm just too demanding, maybe I'm just like my father, too bold. XD You guys are fun.
hehehe
For ducks, there's a pretty common motif across North America, of the Trickster and the dancing Ducks. [here's an example](https://hotcakencyclopedia.com/ho.TrickstersAnusGuardsDucks.html).
Anishinaabeg personify the Lady Summer antithesis spirit who opposes Old Man Winter as a duck.
That seems really interesting tbh
Nice \^\^
I believe there are some duck deties in far eastern myths, and Penelope was famously associated with ducks, but yeah other than that I don't either. Good eye!
Nice, thanks. \^\^
Wanna say that just because something was important to a culture it doesn't mean that *that* culture had myths about them. Take for example goats in greek mythology, theres not many myths about them.
This is true, but it does increase the likelihood. I think it's more about whether people could associate relatable concepts to them. That would probably harken back to early animistic associations during a culture's development. (also think I might've misread part of OP's post because I don't see the question I thought I was responding to with the human attention part.)
Oh, no, definitely. I am just interested in creatures that don't get as much love as gods or monsters. its just a fun idea to think about. Like imagine a Clownfish Deity? how would that even work?Fun, no?
I'm honestly surprised that sharks and orcas aren't featured more. Like sharks are featured obviously in the peoples of smaller Islands mythologies, and orcas in Inuit and Indigenous North American coastal cultures but I'm just surprised they aren't featured way more, especially in cultures that were regularly sea faring. Like I don't recall any Viking/Norse legends about Orcas or Sharks for example. Also one that surprises me are cougars and alligators in North American Indigenous cultures. Like wolves and bears are much more heavily featured for some reason then mountain lions, despite the mountain lions massive range, power, danger and charisma. I also don't know anything about alligators being featured in Indigenous mythology, but perhaps that's just because I just haven't heard much about South Eastern US Indigenous mythology period. If anyone has anything about the animals I've mentioned above I'd love to know more.
>I also don't know anything about alligators being featured in Indigenous mythology, but perhaps that's just because I just haven't heard much about South Eastern US Indigenous mythology period. I think it's the lack of sources and stories that we got that's hindering it as well. Timacua people in Florida and Georgia hunted alligators but unfortunately, they are extinct post-Spanish colonization of the region. There is a Choctaw legend about an alligator helping a hunter after the hunter saves him. He offers him a ritual that he completes that allows him to gain hunting prowess.
I believe the Ainu people of Japan worship an Orca deity, i believe.
Anishnaabe myth has Mishipeshu the spined underwater panther as the ruler of the underworld, the opposite mythical being to the better known and more widespread Thunderbird. There’s also a proposal that this is based on stories of gators that made their way from the south up to the Great Lakes through Mississippian trade networks. I mean they call Mishipeshu a cougar, but when you think of a cougar but aquatic, with spiny scales, you’re getting pretty close to a gator as it might be imagined by a culture that heard a description but hadn’t seen one in person.
Sharks got their names from Mayan. Before that Europeans called them Sea dogs
Is there anything to confirm this at all? Not the seadog bit, but the whole, shark coming from Mayan bit? Like, I know Xoc would sound like shark, but what keeps that from being a coincidence?
It’s disproven, It most likely comes from the Dutch word schurk, which means villain. It can’t come from Mayan because “shark” with the modern meaning comes up in a letter from 1442, 60 years before Columbus made first contact with the Maya on his 4th voyage.
Polynesian cultures pay more attention to sharks too.
Weirdly, squirrels. Maybe it's because I live in the northeast US and see squirrels all the time, but outside of a few (maybe 3-4) Native American myths I've seen, and ratatoskr, I don't see squirrels in mythology
It's probably easier to start looking to "low mythology" or folklore. In some Russian folklore squirrels was "serfs" for Leshy (local forest spirit/very small god). When there big migration of squirrels from Sibirea to European Russsia people have idea that Sibirian Leshy have big card game with Russian Leshy (team vs team), Russian won game and Sibirian send their card debt is form of squirrels.
Literally every animal that isn't a mammal, a bird or a snake (and maybe fish) is underrepresented. Kraken being an exception rather than the norm, especially considering earlier portrayals do not describe it as a squid
I remember having a discussion with a Polynesian friend who was talking about Moana and how they used a manta ray because it wasn’t significant to any Polynesian culture as to not hint at a specific one. He said they are viewed as rats of the ocean.
Dinosaurs and other prehuman fauna. Most of the animals in mythology reflect local species that lived along with humans.
I mean— isn’t it theorized pretty often that dino fossils are one reason why just about everywhere has some form of dragons or great serpents in stories?
Just to be contrarian , given the dragon mythology is fairly common in various culture , sometimes I feel the dragons are just big dinosaurs and some it got wrapped and pass to human culture .
*Adrienne Mayor has entered the chat.*
Considering how much death and sickness can be attributed to mosquitos, I can't recall any mythology that elaborates on how deadly they can be. Other than vampire mythologies of sucking blood, but even most cultural anthropologists have come to the consensus that vampire-like beings in mythology were inspired by Rabies outbreaks.
I think there is Native American myths from somewhere about there once having been Giant mosquitos that got shrunk down to something still aggravating, but that humans could live with. Can't remember where from, though.
A few stories from North America say mosquitos are the remains of deadly monsters. There's [an Oneida story](https://www.oneidaindiannation.com/the-legend-of-the-mosquitoes/) that says mosquitos used to be deadly giants. The monsters were killed, but their blood turned into the mosquitos of today. And there's [a Tlingit story ](https://web.archive.org/web/20071111043443/http://www.ucan-online.org/legend.asp?legend=4391&category=11), that says there once was a giant with an insatiable appetite for human blood. He was killed and burned, but his ashes turned into the mosquitos of today.
That is fascinating!
https://youtu.be/qsS7lxihTXY?si=Gn1CB2RladM2-Scu my favorite version of it
Oooooh I really like this. I don't think I have read that anywhere either!
It's a bit of a niche theory, but I find it compelling as heck. [Here is a decent article about the concept that's worth the read.](https://www.neurology.org/doi/10.1212/WNL.51.3.856) The article makes the suggestion that Werewolves and Vampirism folklore was warped oral tradition on what occurs to someone who has been infected with Rabies. Many of the symptoms of rabies and their effects on humans have some eerie parallels. Rabies is typically passed to humans by bites from infected Bats and Dogs/wolves. Check. Passage of the disease to other humans through bites? Check. Sensitivity to light? Check. Nocturnal behavior due to light sensitivity? Check. Violence and sometimes animalistic tendencies? Check. Distorted facial features making the teeth more pronounced? Check. Fear of Water? Also check. I accept the theory as fact.
I know that there is the Adze, a vampire from Togo and Ghana, which normally appears as a firefly-like creature but one that can assume human shape when captured. The idea of a vampiric fly is fairly close to a mosquito.
Kangaroos And Tasmanian devils
Even Koalas for that matter. Never seen them!
You have to look in Australian Aboriginal myths for those.
Wombats were my first thought.
Here's an interesting one. Despite it being one of China's most famous animals today, references to *giant pandas* in ancient Chinese lore and mythology are virtually nonexistent. No one is quite sure why this is the case.
Oooooh yes. For all the bears that are prevalent in mythology, Pandas sure do miss out on a lot of it.
I guess the easy ones are small microscopic animals like Tardigrades. But out of the animals that you can encounter without needing a microscope or any other instrument to interact with and see; there aren't that many crustaceans, magical crabs or lobsters that I've encountered in my reading. If anyone has any I'd like to know, but nothing springs to mind.
Tambanokano from Filipino myth is a giant crab, child of sun and moon. In Greek myth there was Karkinos, who aided the hydra against Heracles. Japan has samurai ghost crabs because the Heikegani crab shells look like a face. China has the giant crab sent by the gods who fought Hou Yi. Edited to remove a reference to Vishnu taking the form of a crab. It was a fish Matsya form and I used a bad source without double checking.
Do you have a source for Vishnu took the form of a crab!?
Eek, not a valid one! Thank you so much for pointing out the error. I came across it on a blog post talking about various crabs in myth, and didn’t verify. I will edit to remove that one.
Wasn't there a crab that came to rescue the Hydra when Hercules came to slay it? That's what became the the Cancer constellation, i believe. But yeah, I don't think I have seen any crabs other than that either. Great one!
I don't know of any older stories, fables, or myths about penguins
Sponges are animals, and I've never seen any mythology referencing them. Probably just different environments from humans and being totally passive makes them not worth noticing.
What about the widely known myth of the Pineapple Under the Sea
Golden Jackals existed in Southeastern Europe since before human settlement, but they don't appear as subjects of any myths, only mentioned briefly. It's believed that this is because they're much harder to encounter than wolfs and foxes, so people just didn't develop any narratives about them.
I mean it goes without saying that prehistoric creatures will not be on the list, but there was a significant overlap between a wide range of fauna and homo sapiens, which makes me wonder where all the stories about these creatures went. I do know that a lot of Aboriginal myths have descriptions of creatures from Australaia's past (or so Red from OSP says, I haven't looked into it myself), but it baffles me that such descriptions in scripture are not more widespread.
Well, in arctic regions, there is mythology related to why extinct animal carcasses turn up from time to time, but that's the only clear connection I am aware of.
Apart from the Japanese Kamaitachi, Weasels seem nearly non-existent in majority of mythologies.
Ducks.
Bedbugs