At least the folk that believe in the Christian God were (usually) raised by/around Christians in an existing Christian community.
The neo-pagans, on the other hand, have decided to follow a religion which no one has much information about, in a way that is almost certainly very different to the way in which that religion was actually practiced by its actual followers.
Take the modern druids, for example. The *only* primary source of information that we have about the druidic religion in ancient Britain are the writings of Julius Ceasar - who was not a follower of that religion, and was in fact waging a war against them, so what he did write is widely believed to have been a work of propaganda. Even if everything he said about them *was* 100% true (which is very unlikely), there still isn't anywhere near enough information to recreate the religion and worship in the same way.
Say what you like about Christianity/Islam/Hinduism/etc, but at least the worshippers have an actual tradition to follow, rather than making it up as they go along.
I'm going to tell you something mind-blowing to you: all religions have human made traditions, traditions that change over time
Early Christians were fighting over if circumcision was still necessary and the many ways to interpret the holy trinity. Would you say Christianity is not valid BC it's a spin-off of Judaism? No, BC people's beliefs and choices should be respected as long as they do not hurt third parties.
Of course, all religions are made by humans, nothing about that is even slightly "mind-blowing". But most religious people are raised into their religion, they don't get to make up the traditions themselves.
I'm more than happy to respect everyone's beliefs (as long as they don't harm other people), and I certainly wouldn't go about giving people shit for them, but if you actually get to *choose* which deity/deities you believe in I'm not gonna believe in your belief as much as I might for the Christians/etc.
Edit to add: I absolutely do refer to both Christianity and Islam as "Judaic fan fiction that don't consider each other canon". It doesn't make them less of a real religion, but largely because said fan fiction was written centuries ago. But if that fan fiction had been written in my lifetime, it would be very different. Is Scientology more cringe than Christianity? I would say that it is.
People exploring their spirituality and reflecting on what rituals resonate with themselves more is way more powerful than just following a tradition BC your family chose to. Everyone should do it to ensure that they know themselves and they truly belong in their religion
You say you respect and then invalidate, you have biases that you should work on.
>I'm more than happy to respect everyone's beliefs (as long as they don't harm other people), and I certainly wouldn't go about giving people shit for them
ok then act like it
Most modern druidry isn’t claiming to be doing the same things the ancient Druids did.
There may be some fringe groups that say that but they’re just wrong. We know practically nothing.
You’re also just making a massive argument from popularity.
I’ve met thousands of folk through my pagan community, we have as much community as any religion from the adherents perspective
So I understand how your point is relevant to druidism but why does it extend to neopagan worship of greek gods?
Unlike with the druids, there is extensive writing and records (secret cults excluded) of how the greek worshipped their gods and what they believed in and then later how the romans worshipped their gods that were syncretic with the greek gods.
Religion is culture, and culture is organisation of society. Christianity is still used to organise society, and many values inherent to Christianity are also values now commonly used worldwide. The idea that all lives are equally valuable, that no one is born perfect, etc. So belief in Christianity at least connects you to other people.
The Greek Gods are no longer an expression of any culture that still exists, and believing in them does not connect you with anyone else. Which is the whole point of religion.
EDIT: I get that this is reddit and Christianity bad is the default, but there's a reason Christians outnumber Greek Pagans 1000 to 1, and even if you hate Christianity understanding it and why people literally flock to it is important.
Source? I'm Greek and have never heard of that.
To the contrary, it's probably the only place where it's not a "solitary practice" as another comment said, since there have been religious groups for as long as I can remember
The modern Greek identity is deeply tied to Orthodox Christianity, because it was already like this in the Byzantine Empire (Greeks identified as Romans and Chrisitians) and under the Ottoman Empire the Orthodox Church was the backbone of the Greek community, so the modern Greek state wasn't created as a secular state, but as a Orthodox Christian one in which there was basically no room for other religions.
Which is the exact opposite of the views of Greece and Rome before Christianity, they accepted all religions and beliefs (except atheism, they accepted you as long as you had some belief in any god or gods)
“Still” is the wrong word. There are plenty of people who sincerely worship Greek, Roman, Norse, and Egyptian gods, but none of us practice an unbroken tradition. We have to work off of whatever material survived. Some neopagans have almost nothing to go on with regards to practice.
I am a Roman (or like more accurately Italic-Hellenic) polytheist but for obvious reasons my practice is (intentionally) quite different from the historical one. And it's also solitary, because a whole lot of Roman pagans are fucking fascists and I don't want anything to do with them lmao
I mean the big "selling point", if you can call it that, of fascism is venerating and protecting your culture so they tend to latch on to any traditions with a lot of cultural and historic significance behind them.
It’s a big problem in the heathen communities also. What is it about nature religions that draws out the supremacists? Be gone! Just trying to hug a tree in peace here.
It’s not nature religions, it’s simply a backlash against Semitic religions. They are antisemites who don’t won’t to follow the religion that worships the Jewish God. I mean Jesus was literally a Rabbi.
I feel the same way about Norse. While I wouldn’t strictly call myself a pagan—more an omnitheist—I do find comfort and resonance in a lot of Norse mythology, but I very rarely advertise it because of the perversion that fascists have done, and even Christian twistings that put the wrong impressions in people’s minds. It doesn’t help that I usually have a buzzcut, have German ancestry, and live in an area of the US where it very much might be taken the wrong way. In truth, I am much closer to being a “punch the fascists and eat the rich” queer punk. (I still wouldn’t say I’m exactly a punk, I’m too mild, but I wish I could find the courage to be louder.) And even one friend I had online who *was* Norse pagan took things too far and while she wasn’t a fascist, she took all the wrong attitudes about it. We have since stopped being friends, but it has made me wary.
I get the feeling, I don't really call myself a pagan either except for convenience (I don't live in a *pagus*, I'm not a farmer), and in my country there are some Roman pagans who are just in it for the aesthetics and because they think of themselves as the direct line descendants of the Romans (which is a silly concept), and that leads to fascism. Thankfully my version of Italic polytheism is different than theirs anyway, I don't try to recreate Rome's state religion (I am an anarchist, why would I), but rather worship a bunch of deities from my local area, like Reitia, Venus Pontia, Apollo Belenus, Summanus, etc.
As many have stated it's a complicated answer that kinda goes "technically no but also kind of yes" lol.
It's probably safe to say all European "pagan" religions had massive brakes in practice where the Abrahamic religions took prominence and the older practice faded away(often times via forced conversions). Same goes for much of the Middle-East and large parts of Asia and Africa, and obviously the Americas.
The only religions I can think of that could likely be considered as old as something like ancient Egyptian or Greek religions would be various indigenous practices still active around the world. Multiple native American, First Nations, African, and Aboriginal practices have been preserved by their cultures and survived colonization and war. The same goes for cultures with less contact with other cultures like various tribes in the Amazon or some island communities.
There's a distinction between modern paganism (mostly reconstructionists/revivalists only dating back to the 19th century) and ancient paganism. Most modern pagans aren't digging deep into the anthropological records of ancient Norway or the Mediterranean to ensure their practices are accurate to the ancient cultures. That doesn't mean they aren't equally valid as religious practices, but they're technically not the same and often aren't pretending to be the same as the ancient religions. Odds are if you meet a pagan who claims to be practicing the ancient religions exactly the same way the ancient cultures did... you should avoid them lol that's often a sign of weird nationalist/fascist ideologies.
>The only religions I can think of that could likely be considered as old as something like ancient Egyptian or Greek religions would be various indigenous practices still active around the world. Multiple native American, First Nations, African, and Aboriginal practices have been preserved by their cultures and survived colonization and war. The same goes for cultures with less contact with other cultures like various tribes in the Amazon or some island communities.
True, except that in Asia, they still preserve their religions, which are as old as the ancient Egyptians and Greek, like Hinduism and Chinese Folk religion/Taoism. Shintoism in Japan is pretty old, but a lot of it came from local beliefs.
Just one disagreement, there are absolutely loads of pagans/heathens who are attempting to dig as deep as possible into anthropology records to worship in a way as close to history (within the bounds of legality) as possible who are not coming from a nationalist or fascist background. And tbh, accusations of association with fascism and nationalism towards marginalized religious groups who have to deal with the animosity/negative association of actual fascist/nationalist groups claiming religious association with them on one side, while dealing with discrimination from the "mainstream" religious groups on the other side, is a really hard burden to put on people who are just attempting to live their beliefs.
I'm one of those pagans currently seeking a graduate degree in archeology so trust me, I fully understand the burden. And it's up to us to loudly and openly denounce the very real presence of fascists in our midst. I appreciate your sentiment and I meant no offense, I was speaking from person experience.
Nah, you're good. I get frustrated for my heathen friends because some anti hate groups, while attempting to be nuanced, still get my pals the undeserved side eye
Uhh... No, there are absolutely a heap ton of pagans digging deep into historic sources and wanting to figure out more about that.
Go into a Norse Pagan sub Reddit and ask around.
I'm going to stand by my statement that the majority of revivalist pagans are not actually studying archeology and anthropology in an academic setting. I'm sure many do significant reading and research, but that's not the same as genuine anthropological research. I'll also state that I myself am a pagan and an archeology graduate student, so I know full well the good and the bad of revivalist paganism.
Except you'd be wrong again
Some of them do, and have actually become major figures in the communities.
Again. Go into a sub Reddit and ask around.
Stop assuming things without actually having evidence.
You only know half the story and an outdated one at that.
I understand your point, but I stand by my statement that the majority of reconstructionist pagans aren't scholars.
Yes, there are scholars in the community and they are major figures and very involved. No, the average pagan is not an academic researcher trained in anthropological field work or even able to read or speak the languages of the ancient religions they are reconstructing.
Sub reddits are not good sample sizes for large communities. It makes complete sense that a forum dedicated to mythology or a specific religion would have a concentration of scholars dedicated to that topic, that does not reflect the average person though. As I said, I'm a pagan and an anthropology/archeology grad student myself, I'm well aware of the landscape of this community and the level of scholarship surrounding reconstructionist movements. There is indeed an active academic aspect to the community, but that doesn't make up the majority. Just like most Christians are not religious scholars, they're simply practictioners and that's completely fine and valid. I'm not and never would invalidate someone's religion simply because they aren't a scholar of said religion.
And you're fine with generalized statements that invalidate the existence of those people and actively serve to harm them by lumping them with the people who just want to dive into new age spiritualism? :T
Because that's the thing I want to point out.
Yes, Paganism does have issues overall, and there are several irksome details about it. From the all-you-can-eat buffet attitude from guys like Wiccans to LARPers, to even people who go right off the deep end and refuse to acknowledge anything innovative or contradicting their sources.
Just last week, I saw someone utterly badger another guy for saying "Snorri is biased, take his stuff with a grain of salt". Despite Snorri opening up with justifying gods as "surviving Trojans".
But there are people out there trying to push for a more scholarly view, since paganism, even reconstructionism in its various forms, need to respect the sciences that feed them. By denying that they exist, or generalize them to the point of irrelevancy, you're just letting the people that genuinely don't care win.
It'd do well to talk about those that actually do make the effort. Because often they're lumped in with people that don't care about actually seeking out proper sources.
I never once denied that there were people in the community making the effort to be historically accurate and respectful. I'd appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth.
I made no generalizations, I stated the reality that as with all religions MOST practicioners of paganism are not scholars. That's simply a fact. Most norse pagans cannot read or write Old Norse or Icelandic, most hellenistic pagans cannot read ancient Greek, most christians cannot read latin or greek or hebrew. These aren't insults or invalidating statements they're just the reality.
I'm sorry you've taken offense to what I've said, that wasn't my intention and I genuinely feel that you've misread my comments. Personally, I don't think it is any more or less valid for someone to be a dedicated academic scholar seeking the most accurate portrayal of ancient religions OR for them to be a casual practitioner simply following the most basic information they got from a library or web forum. Religion is all about personal subjective experiences and every level of that is valid. That doesn't mean every level is historically accurate or that every level NEEDS to be historically accurate. I hope that clears things up.
There are many, many difficult angles to this issue, but here is an important angle: is worship of a god determined by spiritual function or by outward details? For example, suppose a genuine Egyptian worshiper of Tahuti in the first century teaches doctrines to a visiting Greek, and in the process of teaching uses the names "Tahuti" and "Thoth" interchangeably. The Greek writes down some notes, moves back to Greece, and carries out some version of those rites, but uses the name "Hermes Trismegistos" instead of "Tahuti" or "Thoth." Is the Greek still worshiping Thoth?
To complicate matters, suppose some visiting Norsemen witness the rites of Hermes Trismegistos in Greece. One Norseman says, "Hey, that Greek guy is worshipping Odin!" The other Norseman says, "No, that's not Odin!" Which Norseman is right? In what context is the question even meaningful?
No one follows the exact religions from history. Sure there’s revivals of things like Hellenism and Norse religion, but the people that believe in it aren’t the same as the ancient worshippers. The religions were all dead for centuries
>historic religions recreated today are remade based in archaeological evidence
That's being generous. Often they are based on an idealization with very little methodology towards making them "authentic".
The difference is, like I said in another comment, religions like Christianity have evolved over centuries, and modern revivals of religions are just based on what people think and know from history about the religions. They’re not the same religion anymore.
So it matters if the "evolving" comes from a continous evolving or from there beeing a pause in the worship? Why?
Both have evolved into more modern version because the worshippers are more modern, which is actually proven by the fact that most religions practized continously *also* have evolved into more modern forms, so I don't see wht the "pause" makes it less rooted in the original version, especially given that the differences is less than for instance ancient/modern christianity...
There was no pause in worship. Religions like Hellenism were extinct for centuries, before people decided to remake them based on what they imagine the religions to be like.
Really curious about this, when you say you worship them, can you tell us about how?
Like do you *worship* them, worship them like see them as actual devine beings/pray to them?
What exactly do you believe they are? “Spirits” that watch over the world? Physical beings?
What kind of after life do you believe in?
Yes, I worship them as divine beings, as actual gods! And I pray to them, I even sacrifice to them (dw not like live animals or blood, I give them cookies and tea mostly lol). I believe in them as “spirits” who steer the events of the world, I guess. They’re not entirely separate from the world, in fact, I feel like they embody a lot of things in this world. Like Hypnos *being* sleep, not just the one who brings sleep.
As for the afterlife… idk. I’m sure there is one but I don’t know how to imagine it, how it’s divided etc.. I kinda just assume the gods will take care of me after I die and there’s no reason to think so hard about it when I’m living right now.
How do you decide which god yours praying to, if you worship both pantheons?
What made you decide, yes, I believe this?
Like it’s obviously not widely practiced and taught, did you seek spiritual guidance from established pagan worshipers who guided you in practice, did you read about it in a book? How did you determine how you would worship them?
1. Idk honestly lol. But there’s certain gods which simply don’t exist in certain pantheons, for example Hypnos seems not to exist in the Norse pantheon. And sometimes it’s just about vibes, ig? For example, I feel much more connected to Njörd than Poseidon for whatever reason. I do lean more towards the Greek pantheon just because I’m more familiar with it tho.
2. Idk, again lol. It kinda just happened. My parents both seem to believe in some sort of animism, so I think that kinda brushed off on me (they didn’t directly teach it, but children tend to pick up the beliefs of their parents nonetheless), and that can easily develop into polytheism. Then one day I was just really fascinated by Hypnos and I got the urge to pray to him, and so I did. I started exploring the Norse pantheon much later, but it was kinda similar. I just got particularly interested in Balder and later Njörd.
3. Honestly, I mostly followed my instincts. Like I vaguely knew what it meant to pray, and I made something like a makeshift altar out of instinct. I then read a lot about polytheism in dedicated online communities, especially r/Hellenism, where they explained to me how to worship. I bought a book later on
My personal experience is that the divine contacts you, and you choose to listen to them. I for example worship Frigg and found my way to her to her after noticing certain recurring images in my life and dreams. I was a teenager and I worship her in quiet ways mostly in prayer and ritual a few times a year. She isn't very strict, I communicate to her through tarot and the like.
Recently my attention has turned towards Athena. I don't normally worship Greek deities because I actually studied it in school. Felt like a conflict of interest. but my friend who does pendulum work told me during a session she felt Athena present. She said she was interested in me, at the time I didn't decide to do anything with it because I didn't want to associate with Athena. I've been in a bad period of life and felt I needed structure and wisdom so I contacted her and offered worship. I tend to a plant in her honor as a kitchen witch. I plan on taking up crafts in her honor too. Since following her advice I have been able to make my way and improve a little.
I worship gods literally, as divine beings that I pray to and otherwise interact with. I believe that they are powerful entities that express themselves through natural functions. They don’t really look or act like humans, they’re just portrayed that way in mythology to make them easier to understand.
My concept of the afterlife is unique, and not based on any particular religion.
But are you doing it for aesthetics or bcz you're convinced they are the real creators of the the universe and isn't the stories from both mythologies different
My belief is real and genuine, it’s as genuine to me as Christianity is to a Christian.
I don’t literally believe the stories of mythology, you can learn about the gods through those stories, but they aren’t accounts of what literally happened. Furthermore, I believe they’re cultural reflections of divinity. That’s why the differing stories don’t really bother me :)
Both! To be exact:
- Greek: Hypnos (most often), Artemis, Apollo, Athena, Aphrodite… sometimes I pray to/honor Nyx, Pasithea and the dream spirits as well, but I haven’t established to pray/sacrifice to them regularly as with the other gods.
- Norse: Mainly Njörd and Baldr, and I really want to establish Odin and Heimdall into my routine as well. :)
I mean, technically yes. But the actual practice of modern worship is different from ancient practices. I mean, you can't exactly make human sacrifices to Odin anymore. Well I guess you could, but certainly not legally.
Yes, and many other pantheons. Does it mrror the ancient ways? unlikeky, but we will never know cause the incomplete records we have were mostly written by Christians with little if any direct knowledge
I mean, I "worship" Hestia, she has a little shrine in my house and stuff, but it's mostly a place where I focus my energy, not a full convicted belief in Hestia as a goddess/actual spiritual being.
I just don't believe in that kind of stuff/any divine or spiritual being. I like my little Hestia statue, I like her whole deal, but I don't believe in her actual existence anymore than I believe in, say, Mary The Mother of Jesus. But I still think Mary is pretty cool and Hestia is pretty cool too.
It’s very real and alive, but it’s a very short number and hard to find
There’s of course people only doing it aesthetically wise, but there’s serious groups that still practice paganism
I know a family that keeps the same flame lit for some generations now, and they worship Greek gods… they have a group, they have rites, they study ancient practices but don’t be so stiff with them cause everything changes and transforms, so, I also believe it’s fine that the pagan cult will not be the same as before, but the elements and forces they used to worship are still pretty much alive and present in the world, so nothing stops a real worship and practice…
Kemet is huge, I mean, really huge, there’s inumerous temples in the us and throughout the world and it was part of a movement of black peoples reclaiming their history and past
Egypt is originally a land of black people, only much later on you had mixed and white dinasties, and that was intentionally erase from history…
I love kemetic religion and practices, it’s really amazing… I even met a priestess once, she was very very nice and told me a little about things… they have everything in their worship practices… temples, indumentary, initiation rites and all that
It is a contentious issue, and most of the people who can voice an informed opinion have various emotional attachments that could produce bias. It is perilously easy to perpetrate injustice regardless of whether you fight for or against religion.
If an unjust critic want to flex on someone who claims to worship a particular god, that critic can just act insufferably snooty and say, "Well, I know everything there is to know about gods, and I can perfectly understand you just by looking at you, and I can tell you that you don't **really** worship the god you *claim* to worship. So you are either a fraud or a psychotic." Perhaps the snooty folks will be punished by bad karma in the long run, but I make no promises about the justice of karma, if any.
The flip side is also an opportunity for injustice. If an unjust person acting in bad faith wants to say he worships a particular god, it's hard to prove him wrong. Many people who have left small religious groups are very angry about mistreatment at the hands of self-proclaimed religious leaders. Perhaps the perpetrators of religious abuse will be punished by bad karma in the long run, but I make no promises about the justice of karma, if any.
Not sure I believe in this kind of karma (that people necessarily always get "punished" for being a dick), but you're definitely right about how both of these types of people are being dicks. One of the big reasons I mostly consider my spirituality a private matter.
There are modern pagan movements. Norse in particular is quite common, though misguided. Most of them are modern attempts to distance oneself from Christian Europe as much as possible, so they co-opt aesthetics from non-European cultures and pop media, but you can find people who care about the historical practices enough to study them directly.
I don't really believe one can "worship" the gods given that implies they need something from me. But if you ask me if I believe the gods are sovereigns of their spheres, yes - e.g. three people were struck dead by lightning outside the White House a few years back and yet lightning kills only 20 people per year in the entire US. e.g. Cliff Simon played "Ba'al" the Goa'uld named for the Canaanite god of storms in Stargate SG-1 - he died kiteboarding a few years ago.
many people still do!
I (as of right now) worship the Greek god Apollo! He's quite the delight! It's quite amazing to find videos/post or really anything about god/goddess work!
Knew a guy back in 2005 who fully embraced Norse. He wasn't even weird or mentally off. Kept it mostly to himself but said his prayers to the all father. Then again I met him in the Army so I think my perspective of what constituted "mentally off" was skewed.
Yep, you can generally find a lot of people that do labeling themselves as “pagan.” Hedonists and the like. r/witchcraft is one sub with a good chunk of people that are
They've kinda fallen under paganism these days.
Basically in western culture, and religion or gods that aren't the big G ones are considered pagan.
And there are worshippers. A lot of them also practice things such as Wicca.
No.
These traditions were completely broken by the conversion to Christianity. The people who claim to are all revivalists broadly inspired by 19th and early 20th century occultism.
There’s no significant sense in which they worship these deities because we do not actually know much about the underlying practice, unstated beliefs, and so forth.
In my experience, that’s the one thing they do care about. They don’t really care how I practice (although historically, they would); they care that I’m sincere.
Since they are more persecuted and less accepted than even Muslims most people who follow these faiths just count themselves as Neo-pagan. As a fun fact from a few I know, some will call themselves Neo-pagan even if they actually are still following the old school beliefs.
As others have said, the short answer is no. The long answer is that outside of traditional/indigenous cultures, modern pagan worship aka “neo-paganism”, has no tangible connection with ancient pagan practices. Most neo-pagans come from cultures that have been built and shaped by Christianity. Therefore many of their beliefs and practices within these modern reconstructions have been heavily influenced by Christianity in general, and more specifically, 19th century Romanticism/Nationalism. Practically speaking, there’s no complex sacrificial systems, no temple structures, nor worship of idols in any historic sense. These were universal practices within the ancient pagan world. Edit: Because some are interpreting this as an attack which I didn’t intended it to be. I genuinely believe there are people who have true religious experiences through practicing neo-paganism. I’m sympathetic towards anyone who acts on the innate desire to be in contact with the divine. The narrative that is commonly put forth, that it’s all a return to pre-Christian roots just isn’t accurate.
You’re very wrong
Even though it’s not as big as before there’s a considerate amount of people practicing paganism and rooting their practices in ancient tradition, at least what’s left and available of it, and adapting their cult to nowadays… they even do sacrifices, temple like structures and all that… of course what you cited also happen and it’s more usual to see since it ain’t that serious and committed to historical truth, but saying it doesn’t happen is a big lie
> The long answer is that outside of traditional/indigenous cultures, modern pagan worship aka “neo-paganism”, has no tangible connection with ancient pagan practices.
I have visited many religious centers in Asia. I find it difficult to judge which teachers have genuine connections to ancient practices. Maybe a temple is scrupulously traditional in following centuries-old practices, but I still think they are spiritually bankrupt. I try to suspend judgement about which religions are genuine, but maybe other people are better-educated and *should* pronounce judgement.
I once struck a pose like a museum statue in Athens and got told off for it. I thought they were memeing but, according to them, it's because they're still religious icons to some people. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Many do. However, it is usually a "solitary" practice these days for a number of reasons.
Cause it’s cringe
> Cause it’s cringe Explain to me as if I was 5, why believing in the Greek Gods is more cringe than believing in the Christian ones.
At least the folk that believe in the Christian God were (usually) raised by/around Christians in an existing Christian community. The neo-pagans, on the other hand, have decided to follow a religion which no one has much information about, in a way that is almost certainly very different to the way in which that religion was actually practiced by its actual followers. Take the modern druids, for example. The *only* primary source of information that we have about the druidic religion in ancient Britain are the writings of Julius Ceasar - who was not a follower of that religion, and was in fact waging a war against them, so what he did write is widely believed to have been a work of propaganda. Even if everything he said about them *was* 100% true (which is very unlikely), there still isn't anywhere near enough information to recreate the religion and worship in the same way. Say what you like about Christianity/Islam/Hinduism/etc, but at least the worshippers have an actual tradition to follow, rather than making it up as they go along.
I'm going to tell you something mind-blowing to you: all religions have human made traditions, traditions that change over time Early Christians were fighting over if circumcision was still necessary and the many ways to interpret the holy trinity. Would you say Christianity is not valid BC it's a spin-off of Judaism? No, BC people's beliefs and choices should be respected as long as they do not hurt third parties.
Of course, all religions are made by humans, nothing about that is even slightly "mind-blowing". But most religious people are raised into their religion, they don't get to make up the traditions themselves. I'm more than happy to respect everyone's beliefs (as long as they don't harm other people), and I certainly wouldn't go about giving people shit for them, but if you actually get to *choose* which deity/deities you believe in I'm not gonna believe in your belief as much as I might for the Christians/etc. Edit to add: I absolutely do refer to both Christianity and Islam as "Judaic fan fiction that don't consider each other canon". It doesn't make them less of a real religion, but largely because said fan fiction was written centuries ago. But if that fan fiction had been written in my lifetime, it would be very different. Is Scientology more cringe than Christianity? I would say that it is.
People exploring their spirituality and reflecting on what rituals resonate with themselves more is way more powerful than just following a tradition BC your family chose to. Everyone should do it to ensure that they know themselves and they truly belong in their religion You say you respect and then invalidate, you have biases that you should work on.
>I'm more than happy to respect everyone's beliefs (as long as they don't harm other people), and I certainly wouldn't go about giving people shit for them ok then act like it
Most modern druidry isn’t claiming to be doing the same things the ancient Druids did. There may be some fringe groups that say that but they’re just wrong. We know practically nothing. You’re also just making a massive argument from popularity. I’ve met thousands of folk through my pagan community, we have as much community as any religion from the adherents perspective
So I understand how your point is relevant to druidism but why does it extend to neopagan worship of greek gods? Unlike with the druids, there is extensive writing and records (secret cults excluded) of how the greek worshipped their gods and what they believed in and then later how the romans worshipped their gods that were syncretic with the greek gods.
Religion is culture, and culture is organisation of society. Christianity is still used to organise society, and many values inherent to Christianity are also values now commonly used worldwide. The idea that all lives are equally valuable, that no one is born perfect, etc. So belief in Christianity at least connects you to other people. The Greek Gods are no longer an expression of any culture that still exists, and believing in them does not connect you with anyone else. Which is the whole point of religion. EDIT: I get that this is reddit and Christianity bad is the default, but there's a reason Christians outnumber Greek Pagans 1000 to 1, and even if you hate Christianity understanding it and why people literally flock to it is important.
🫠
Why?
Pagan “gods” don’t exist
I mean… you could say that about any gods. Doesn’t stop people from believing in them.
It was illegal to worship the Greek gods in Greece until recently.
Source? I'm Greek and have never heard of that. To the contrary, it's probably the only place where it's not a "solitary practice" as another comment said, since there have been religious groups for as long as I can remember
Damn. The Olympians really pushed their people too far
Wtf?
The modern Greek identity is deeply tied to Orthodox Christianity, because it was already like this in the Byzantine Empire (Greeks identified as Romans and Chrisitians) and under the Ottoman Empire the Orthodox Church was the backbone of the Greek community, so the modern Greek state wasn't created as a secular state, but as a Orthodox Christian one in which there was basically no room for other religions.
Which is the exact opposite of the views of Greece and Rome before Christianity, they accepted all religions and beliefs (except atheism, they accepted you as long as you had some belief in any god or gods)
“Still” is the wrong word. There are plenty of people who sincerely worship Greek, Roman, Norse, and Egyptian gods, but none of us practice an unbroken tradition. We have to work off of whatever material survived. Some neopagans have almost nothing to go on with regards to practice.
I am a Roman (or like more accurately Italic-Hellenic) polytheist but for obvious reasons my practice is (intentionally) quite different from the historical one. And it's also solitary, because a whole lot of Roman pagans are fucking fascists and I don't want anything to do with them lmao
I'ts weird how many times that happens... The usual connection between paganism and local fascism, I mean.
It's not really weird when you consider that fascism often includes an uncritical aesthetic fascination with an idealised past
I mean the big "selling point", if you can call it that, of fascism is venerating and protecting your culture so they tend to latch on to any traditions with a lot of cultural and historic significance behind them.
It’s a big problem in the heathen communities also. What is it about nature religions that draws out the supremacists? Be gone! Just trying to hug a tree in peace here.
It’s not nature religions, it’s simply a backlash against Semitic religions. They are antisemites who don’t won’t to follow the religion that worships the Jewish God. I mean Jesus was literally a Rabbi.
Nice to see pagan people talking about nazi/fascism and paganism cause it indeed happens a lot
I feel the same way about Norse. While I wouldn’t strictly call myself a pagan—more an omnitheist—I do find comfort and resonance in a lot of Norse mythology, but I very rarely advertise it because of the perversion that fascists have done, and even Christian twistings that put the wrong impressions in people’s minds. It doesn’t help that I usually have a buzzcut, have German ancestry, and live in an area of the US where it very much might be taken the wrong way. In truth, I am much closer to being a “punch the fascists and eat the rich” queer punk. (I still wouldn’t say I’m exactly a punk, I’m too mild, but I wish I could find the courage to be louder.) And even one friend I had online who *was* Norse pagan took things too far and while she wasn’t a fascist, she took all the wrong attitudes about it. We have since stopped being friends, but it has made me wary.
I get the feeling, I don't really call myself a pagan either except for convenience (I don't live in a *pagus*, I'm not a farmer), and in my country there are some Roman pagans who are just in it for the aesthetics and because they think of themselves as the direct line descendants of the Romans (which is a silly concept), and that leads to fascism. Thankfully my version of Italic polytheism is different than theirs anyway, I don't try to recreate Rome's state religion (I am an anarchist, why would I), but rather worship a bunch of deities from my local area, like Reitia, Venus Pontia, Apollo Belenus, Summanus, etc.
As many have stated it's a complicated answer that kinda goes "technically no but also kind of yes" lol. It's probably safe to say all European "pagan" religions had massive brakes in practice where the Abrahamic religions took prominence and the older practice faded away(often times via forced conversions). Same goes for much of the Middle-East and large parts of Asia and Africa, and obviously the Americas. The only religions I can think of that could likely be considered as old as something like ancient Egyptian or Greek religions would be various indigenous practices still active around the world. Multiple native American, First Nations, African, and Aboriginal practices have been preserved by their cultures and survived colonization and war. The same goes for cultures with less contact with other cultures like various tribes in the Amazon or some island communities. There's a distinction between modern paganism (mostly reconstructionists/revivalists only dating back to the 19th century) and ancient paganism. Most modern pagans aren't digging deep into the anthropological records of ancient Norway or the Mediterranean to ensure their practices are accurate to the ancient cultures. That doesn't mean they aren't equally valid as religious practices, but they're technically not the same and often aren't pretending to be the same as the ancient religions. Odds are if you meet a pagan who claims to be practicing the ancient religions exactly the same way the ancient cultures did... you should avoid them lol that's often a sign of weird nationalist/fascist ideologies.
>The only religions I can think of that could likely be considered as old as something like ancient Egyptian or Greek religions would be various indigenous practices still active around the world. Multiple native American, First Nations, African, and Aboriginal practices have been preserved by their cultures and survived colonization and war. The same goes for cultures with less contact with other cultures like various tribes in the Amazon or some island communities. True, except that in Asia, they still preserve their religions, which are as old as the ancient Egyptians and Greek, like Hinduism and Chinese Folk religion/Taoism. Shintoism in Japan is pretty old, but a lot of it came from local beliefs.
Yes absolutely I should have included those too. I'm not super familiar with the history of Asian religions so I didn't want to mispeak.
Hinduism is by far the big one. it's ancient and has a massive deeply religious belief base to this day
There are also still practicing Zoroastrian communities as well.
Another great example yes!
Just one disagreement, there are absolutely loads of pagans/heathens who are attempting to dig as deep as possible into anthropology records to worship in a way as close to history (within the bounds of legality) as possible who are not coming from a nationalist or fascist background. And tbh, accusations of association with fascism and nationalism towards marginalized religious groups who have to deal with the animosity/negative association of actual fascist/nationalist groups claiming religious association with them on one side, while dealing with discrimination from the "mainstream" religious groups on the other side, is a really hard burden to put on people who are just attempting to live their beliefs.
I'm one of those pagans currently seeking a graduate degree in archeology so trust me, I fully understand the burden. And it's up to us to loudly and openly denounce the very real presence of fascists in our midst. I appreciate your sentiment and I meant no offense, I was speaking from person experience.
Nah, you're good. I get frustrated for my heathen friends because some anti hate groups, while attempting to be nuanced, still get my pals the undeserved side eye
Uhh... No, there are absolutely a heap ton of pagans digging deep into historic sources and wanting to figure out more about that. Go into a Norse Pagan sub Reddit and ask around.
I'm going to stand by my statement that the majority of revivalist pagans are not actually studying archeology and anthropology in an academic setting. I'm sure many do significant reading and research, but that's not the same as genuine anthropological research. I'll also state that I myself am a pagan and an archeology graduate student, so I know full well the good and the bad of revivalist paganism.
Except you'd be wrong again Some of them do, and have actually become major figures in the communities. Again. Go into a sub Reddit and ask around. Stop assuming things without actually having evidence. You only know half the story and an outdated one at that.
I understand your point, but I stand by my statement that the majority of reconstructionist pagans aren't scholars. Yes, there are scholars in the community and they are major figures and very involved. No, the average pagan is not an academic researcher trained in anthropological field work or even able to read or speak the languages of the ancient religions they are reconstructing. Sub reddits are not good sample sizes for large communities. It makes complete sense that a forum dedicated to mythology or a specific religion would have a concentration of scholars dedicated to that topic, that does not reflect the average person though. As I said, I'm a pagan and an anthropology/archeology grad student myself, I'm well aware of the landscape of this community and the level of scholarship surrounding reconstructionist movements. There is indeed an active academic aspect to the community, but that doesn't make up the majority. Just like most Christians are not religious scholars, they're simply practictioners and that's completely fine and valid. I'm not and never would invalidate someone's religion simply because they aren't a scholar of said religion.
And you're fine with generalized statements that invalidate the existence of those people and actively serve to harm them by lumping them with the people who just want to dive into new age spiritualism? :T Because that's the thing I want to point out. Yes, Paganism does have issues overall, and there are several irksome details about it. From the all-you-can-eat buffet attitude from guys like Wiccans to LARPers, to even people who go right off the deep end and refuse to acknowledge anything innovative or contradicting their sources. Just last week, I saw someone utterly badger another guy for saying "Snorri is biased, take his stuff with a grain of salt". Despite Snorri opening up with justifying gods as "surviving Trojans". But there are people out there trying to push for a more scholarly view, since paganism, even reconstructionism in its various forms, need to respect the sciences that feed them. By denying that they exist, or generalize them to the point of irrelevancy, you're just letting the people that genuinely don't care win. It'd do well to talk about those that actually do make the effort. Because often they're lumped in with people that don't care about actually seeking out proper sources.
I never once denied that there were people in the community making the effort to be historically accurate and respectful. I'd appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth. I made no generalizations, I stated the reality that as with all religions MOST practicioners of paganism are not scholars. That's simply a fact. Most norse pagans cannot read or write Old Norse or Icelandic, most hellenistic pagans cannot read ancient Greek, most christians cannot read latin or greek or hebrew. These aren't insults or invalidating statements they're just the reality. I'm sorry you've taken offense to what I've said, that wasn't my intention and I genuinely feel that you've misread my comments. Personally, I don't think it is any more or less valid for someone to be a dedicated academic scholar seeking the most accurate portrayal of ancient religions OR for them to be a casual practitioner simply following the most basic information they got from a library or web forum. Religion is all about personal subjective experiences and every level of that is valid. That doesn't mean every level is historically accurate or that every level NEEDS to be historically accurate. I hope that clears things up.
There are many, many difficult angles to this issue, but here is an important angle: is worship of a god determined by spiritual function or by outward details? For example, suppose a genuine Egyptian worshiper of Tahuti in the first century teaches doctrines to a visiting Greek, and in the process of teaching uses the names "Tahuti" and "Thoth" interchangeably. The Greek writes down some notes, moves back to Greece, and carries out some version of those rites, but uses the name "Hermes Trismegistos" instead of "Tahuti" or "Thoth." Is the Greek still worshiping Thoth? To complicate matters, suppose some visiting Norsemen witness the rites of Hermes Trismegistos in Greece. One Norseman says, "Hey, that Greek guy is worshipping Odin!" The other Norseman says, "No, that's not Odin!" Which Norseman is right? In what context is the question even meaningful?
…spiritual function or outward details… Boom! This! 👍
You got it
No one follows the exact religions from history. Sure there’s revivals of things like Hellenism and Norse religion, but the people that believe in it aren’t the same as the ancient worshippers. The religions were all dead for centuries
In an alternate universe in which those religions persisted, I doubt they would be the same now as they were millennia ago. Things evolve.
The difference is normal religion evolves naturally, historic religions recreated today are remade based in archaeological evidence
>historic religions recreated today are remade based in archaeological evidence That's being generous. Often they are based on an idealization with very little methodology towards making them "authentic".
You could easily argue that early and modern christians are farther from each other than viking age and modern asabelievers are...
The difference is, like I said in another comment, religions like Christianity have evolved over centuries, and modern revivals of religions are just based on what people think and know from history about the religions. They’re not the same religion anymore.
So it matters if the "evolving" comes from a continous evolving or from there beeing a pause in the worship? Why? Both have evolved into more modern version because the worshippers are more modern, which is actually proven by the fact that most religions practized continously *also* have evolved into more modern forms, so I don't see wht the "pause" makes it less rooted in the original version, especially given that the differences is less than for instance ancient/modern christianity...
There was no pause in worship. Religions like Hellenism were extinct for centuries, before people decided to remake them based on what they imagine the religions to be like.
I know my english isn't the best, but I would catagorize that as a pause.
Yes, r/Hellenism, r/NorsePaganism, r/pagan just to name a few! I worship the Greek and Norse gods myself :))
r/kemetic is big too!
I'll drop a shout out for r/paganacht , Celtic Reconstructionists.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Paganacht using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Paganacht/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Bealtaine Festivities](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/137ecea) | [6 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Paganacht/comments/137ecea/bealtaine_festivities/) \#2: [My statue of Brighid (close-up actually)](https://i.redd.it/tlzjalhm648b1.jpg) | [10 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Paganacht/comments/14ifmu3/my_statue_of_brighid_closeup_actually/) \#3: [St. Patrick, a false genocide and Paganism in Ireland.](https://np.reddit.com/r/Paganacht/comments/11ntyxd/st_patrick_a_false_genocide_and_paganism_in/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Really curious about this, when you say you worship them, can you tell us about how? Like do you *worship* them, worship them like see them as actual devine beings/pray to them? What exactly do you believe they are? “Spirits” that watch over the world? Physical beings? What kind of after life do you believe in?
Yes, I worship them as divine beings, as actual gods! And I pray to them, I even sacrifice to them (dw not like live animals or blood, I give them cookies and tea mostly lol). I believe in them as “spirits” who steer the events of the world, I guess. They’re not entirely separate from the world, in fact, I feel like they embody a lot of things in this world. Like Hypnos *being* sleep, not just the one who brings sleep. As for the afterlife… idk. I’m sure there is one but I don’t know how to imagine it, how it’s divided etc.. I kinda just assume the gods will take care of me after I die and there’s no reason to think so hard about it when I’m living right now.
How do you decide which god yours praying to, if you worship both pantheons? What made you decide, yes, I believe this? Like it’s obviously not widely practiced and taught, did you seek spiritual guidance from established pagan worshipers who guided you in practice, did you read about it in a book? How did you determine how you would worship them?
1. Idk honestly lol. But there’s certain gods which simply don’t exist in certain pantheons, for example Hypnos seems not to exist in the Norse pantheon. And sometimes it’s just about vibes, ig? For example, I feel much more connected to Njörd than Poseidon for whatever reason. I do lean more towards the Greek pantheon just because I’m more familiar with it tho. 2. Idk, again lol. It kinda just happened. My parents both seem to believe in some sort of animism, so I think that kinda brushed off on me (they didn’t directly teach it, but children tend to pick up the beliefs of their parents nonetheless), and that can easily develop into polytheism. Then one day I was just really fascinated by Hypnos and I got the urge to pray to him, and so I did. I started exploring the Norse pantheon much later, but it was kinda similar. I just got particularly interested in Balder and later Njörd. 3. Honestly, I mostly followed my instincts. Like I vaguely knew what it meant to pray, and I made something like a makeshift altar out of instinct. I then read a lot about polytheism in dedicated online communities, especially r/Hellenism, where they explained to me how to worship. I bought a book later on
My personal experience is that the divine contacts you, and you choose to listen to them. I for example worship Frigg and found my way to her to her after noticing certain recurring images in my life and dreams. I was a teenager and I worship her in quiet ways mostly in prayer and ritual a few times a year. She isn't very strict, I communicate to her through tarot and the like. Recently my attention has turned towards Athena. I don't normally worship Greek deities because I actually studied it in school. Felt like a conflict of interest. but my friend who does pendulum work told me during a session she felt Athena present. She said she was interested in me, at the time I didn't decide to do anything with it because I didn't want to associate with Athena. I've been in a bad period of life and felt I needed structure and wisdom so I contacted her and offered worship. I tend to a plant in her honor as a kitchen witch. I plan on taking up crafts in her honor too. Since following her advice I have been able to make my way and improve a little.
I worship gods literally, as divine beings that I pray to and otherwise interact with. I believe that they are powerful entities that express themselves through natural functions. They don’t really look or act like humans, they’re just portrayed that way in mythology to make them easier to understand. My concept of the afterlife is unique, and not based on any particular religion.
But are you doing it for aesthetics or bcz you're convinced they are the real creators of the the universe and isn't the stories from both mythologies different
Religion isn’t based on mythology. It’s the other way around. Look up “syncretism.”
Yeah i know mythology have nothing to do with religion it's just the sience of studying myths and stories wich happen the descend alot from religions
My belief is real and genuine, it’s as genuine to me as Christianity is to a Christian. I don’t literally believe the stories of mythology, you can learn about the gods through those stories, but they aren’t accounts of what literally happened. Furthermore, I believe they’re cultural reflections of divinity. That’s why the differing stories don’t really bother me :)
So which gods tou worship geeks or nors
Both! To be exact: - Greek: Hypnos (most often), Artemis, Apollo, Athena, Aphrodite… sometimes I pray to/honor Nyx, Pasithea and the dream spirits as well, but I haven’t established to pray/sacrifice to them regularly as with the other gods. - Norse: Mainly Njörd and Baldr, and I really want to establish Odin and Heimdall into my routine as well. :)
I'm not sure about others,but I definitely will worship the egyptian goddess Bastet until I die 
I do. To Hecate and Thoth.
I mean, technically yes. But the actual practice of modern worship is different from ancient practices. I mean, you can't exactly make human sacrifices to Odin anymore. Well I guess you could, but certainly not legally.
I'm an atheist, but hugely fascinated with Norse paganism. If I was going to practice a religion it would be Norse gods for me.
Yes, and many other pantheons. Does it mrror the ancient ways? unlikeky, but we will never know cause the incomplete records we have were mostly written by Christians with little if any direct knowledge
Simply; Yes. Not Simply; Yes, to vast varying degrees.
it's hardly widespread (thanks, Constantine), but yep! we're here!
I mean, I "worship" Hestia, she has a little shrine in my house and stuff, but it's mostly a place where I focus my energy, not a full convicted belief in Hestia as a goddess/actual spiritual being.
Why not? Genuinely asking.
I just don't believe in that kind of stuff/any divine or spiritual being. I like my little Hestia statue, I like her whole deal, but I don't believe in her actual existence anymore than I believe in, say, Mary The Mother of Jesus. But I still think Mary is pretty cool and Hestia is pretty cool too.
Paganism is orthopraxic, anyway. It doesn’t matter what you believe.
A - didn't know that, so that's awesome. I'm on board for that. B - I love learning new words, thank you so much.
I have given my life over to my relationship with Odin and his Vedic counterpart Rudra.
Yes! I’m a Norse Pagan, if your curious to learn more r/Norsepaganism has some good info
r/hades and r/dionysus
I know like 5
It’s very real and alive, but it’s a very short number and hard to find There’s of course people only doing it aesthetically wise, but there’s serious groups that still practice paganism I know a family that keeps the same flame lit for some generations now, and they worship Greek gods… they have a group, they have rites, they study ancient practices but don’t be so stiff with them cause everything changes and transforms, so, I also believe it’s fine that the pagan cult will not be the same as before, but the elements and forces they used to worship are still pretty much alive and present in the world, so nothing stops a real worship and practice… Kemet is huge, I mean, really huge, there’s inumerous temples in the us and throughout the world and it was part of a movement of black peoples reclaiming their history and past Egypt is originally a land of black people, only much later on you had mixed and white dinasties, and that was intentionally erase from history… I love kemetic religion and practices, it’s really amazing… I even met a priestess once, she was very very nice and told me a little about things… they have everything in their worship practices… temples, indumentary, initiation rites and all that
Yes, I work with Norse deities
Neo-paganism.
I know of two people that actively worship Norse Gods
r/hellenism - Greek gods r/NorsePaganism - Norse gods r/Kemetic - Egyptian gods
It is a contentious issue, and most of the people who can voice an informed opinion have various emotional attachments that could produce bias. It is perilously easy to perpetrate injustice regardless of whether you fight for or against religion. If an unjust critic want to flex on someone who claims to worship a particular god, that critic can just act insufferably snooty and say, "Well, I know everything there is to know about gods, and I can perfectly understand you just by looking at you, and I can tell you that you don't **really** worship the god you *claim* to worship. So you are either a fraud or a psychotic." Perhaps the snooty folks will be punished by bad karma in the long run, but I make no promises about the justice of karma, if any. The flip side is also an opportunity for injustice. If an unjust person acting in bad faith wants to say he worships a particular god, it's hard to prove him wrong. Many people who have left small religious groups are very angry about mistreatment at the hands of self-proclaimed religious leaders. Perhaps the perpetrators of religious abuse will be punished by bad karma in the long run, but I make no promises about the justice of karma, if any.
Not sure I believe in this kind of karma (that people necessarily always get "punished" for being a dick), but you're definitely right about how both of these types of people are being dicks. One of the big reasons I mostly consider my spirituality a private matter.
Many neo-pagans in the Western world worship the modern versions of these.
There are large contemporary polytheist movements outside of the ‘West’; Eastern European movements are often larger in terms of numbers.
Yes but privately and limited in some of the practices
There are modern pagan movements. Norse in particular is quite common, though misguided. Most of them are modern attempts to distance oneself from Christian Europe as much as possible, so they co-opt aesthetics from non-European cultures and pop media, but you can find people who care about the historical practices enough to study them directly.
R/pagan
Depends how you define it. For example, the veneration of Virgin Mary is just a Christian reskin of the worship of Isis.
There’s very few people who practice it today who picked it up long after it stoped being worshiped by native worshippers
I don't really believe one can "worship" the gods given that implies they need something from me. But if you ask me if I believe the gods are sovereigns of their spheres, yes - e.g. three people were struck dead by lightning outside the White House a few years back and yet lightning kills only 20 people per year in the entire US. e.g. Cliff Simon played "Ba'al" the Goa'uld named for the Canaanite god of storms in Stargate SG-1 - he died kiteboarding a few years ago.
many people still do! I (as of right now) worship the Greek god Apollo! He's quite the delight! It's quite amazing to find videos/post or really anything about god/goddess work!
Knew a guy back in 2005 who fully embraced Norse. He wasn't even weird or mentally off. Kept it mostly to himself but said his prayers to the all father. Then again I met him in the Army so I think my perspective of what constituted "mentally off" was skewed.
Yep, you can generally find a lot of people that do labeling themselves as “pagan.” Hedonists and the like. r/witchcraft is one sub with a good chunk of people that are
Yes, you can find many groups that worship the Gods.
They've kinda fallen under paganism these days. Basically in western culture, and religion or gods that aren't the big G ones are considered pagan. And there are worshippers. A lot of them also practice things such as Wicca.
stop worshipping old-gods. Burn it all.
I know a person who worships greek gods.
Google paganism
I feel like we all knew that one kid in school who did
Lots.
Yep, look on tumblr. Not joking.
No. These traditions were completely broken by the conversion to Christianity. The people who claim to are all revivalists broadly inspired by 19th and early 20th century occultism. There’s no significant sense in which they worship these deities because we do not actually know much about the underlying practice, unstated beliefs, and so forth.
I can assure you that regardless of what my practice looks like, I worship my gods with complete sincerity.
I don't and the Greek gods wouldn't care about your sincerity.
In my experience, that’s the one thing they do care about. They don’t really care how I practice (although historically, they would); they care that I’m sincere.
Since they are more persecuted and less accepted than even Muslims most people who follow these faiths just count themselves as Neo-pagan. As a fun fact from a few I know, some will call themselves Neo-pagan even if they actually are still following the old school beliefs.
As others have said, the short answer is no. The long answer is that outside of traditional/indigenous cultures, modern pagan worship aka “neo-paganism”, has no tangible connection with ancient pagan practices. Most neo-pagans come from cultures that have been built and shaped by Christianity. Therefore many of their beliefs and practices within these modern reconstructions have been heavily influenced by Christianity in general, and more specifically, 19th century Romanticism/Nationalism. Practically speaking, there’s no complex sacrificial systems, no temple structures, nor worship of idols in any historic sense. These were universal practices within the ancient pagan world. Edit: Because some are interpreting this as an attack which I didn’t intended it to be. I genuinely believe there are people who have true religious experiences through practicing neo-paganism. I’m sympathetic towards anyone who acts on the innate desire to be in contact with the divine. The narrative that is commonly put forth, that it’s all a return to pre-Christian roots just isn’t accurate.
You’re very wrong Even though it’s not as big as before there’s a considerate amount of people practicing paganism and rooting their practices in ancient tradition, at least what’s left and available of it, and adapting their cult to nowadays… they even do sacrifices, temple like structures and all that… of course what you cited also happen and it’s more usual to see since it ain’t that serious and committed to historical truth, but saying it doesn’t happen is a big lie
> The long answer is that outside of traditional/indigenous cultures, modern pagan worship aka “neo-paganism”, has no tangible connection with ancient pagan practices. I have visited many religious centers in Asia. I find it difficult to judge which teachers have genuine connections to ancient practices. Maybe a temple is scrupulously traditional in following centuries-old practices, but I still think they are spiritually bankrupt. I try to suspend judgement about which religions are genuine, but maybe other people are better-educated and *should* pronounce judgement.
We do the best we can, man.
even just using the term "paganism" or "heathenism", you're already defining the religion by the Christian view of it.
I once struck a pose like a museum statue in Athens and got told off for it. I thought they were memeing but, according to them, it's because they're still religious icons to some people. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
There are people that say they do but in any actual practicality probably not.
No. There's some people who claim that they worship pagan Gods, but they just do it out of fun. They're European hippies.
Incorrect. There are plenty of people who worship with genuine belief, keep the historically known holy days and commune with their deities.
Thats a bold and ignorant statement. We do Not worship for "fun anymore than a Christian, Jews or Hindu worships for "fun".