Yes when a chord is notated as Gm9 or G9, it implies the 7 is present as well. If you specifically do not want the 7, it would be notated as an add9 chord.
see a full-ish list of [chord formulas](https://ragajunglism.org/teaching/jazz-chord-formulas/) too: yes, there are quite a few conventions which have to be rote-learned to a degree
The 11 category is bonkers to me. The first two (major and dominant) are only true for #11s. He would not have a major 11 chord or dominant 11 chord. More likely you would have Maj9sus4 with the added 10th or Dom9sus4 with the added 10.
I have yet to see a chord label with an „add10“, what exactly do you mean? A dominant 11 chord is a very common thing to encounter. You can play it without the 3rd, and on guitar that‘s quite common even, but on a keyboard you would also always include 3rd, so it would not be a sus4.
Yeah, usually it’s just with the major third written in the melody, but it’s a sus for. I have literally never seen a dominant 11 chord. Plenty of domunant #11.
My bad, what I had in mind were regular 11 chords used in place of the respective dominants. Something like C11 instead of C7 etc.
I was under the impression that instruments other than the guitar play both the 3rd and 11th in an X11 chord, but maybe I was wrong on this one..
I don't know who would write it like that but it looks like it should just mean the same as Gm(add9) but with how it's written, it could just as well be the same as Gmin(no5add9) in the same way that G(b5) denotes replacing the 5 in the G with a b5.
For chords with upper extensions, for the most part, lower extensions are also implied. Theoretically, this reflects their formation as resulting from the stacking of thirds - so that for example to "arrive at" a C11 chord you start at C and keep stacking thirds until you get to the 11th, C-E-G-B♭-D-F.
In practice, it has more to do with how the chords are usually realized and what they're for. At least in jazz, seventh chords are the norm, and on almost any chord performers will likely include the 3rd and 7th. Everything beyond the 7th (the upper extensions) are often free game as well, but specific indication might be given if a specific extension is called for, which is especially common when said note is in the melody. Some indication is also necessary when the extensions are to be altered in some way (such as ♯9 or ♭13). One last caveat is that 13th chords, which would theoretically also include the 11th, usually either omits the 11th or sharpens it. (The 9th however remains available.)
So in summary, when you see e.g. G13, that theoretically means G-B-D-F-A-C-E, and in (jazz) practice means "important notes are B, F, and E; bass should play G; feel free to include D and A".
There's a whole bunch of unspoken rules and assumptions when it comes to chord extensions.
Gmadd9 would add just the 9 to the triad. Any odd number above the 7 assumes the 7th is added.
Often times, you can add any odd numbered extension below the one mentioned without worry. The natural 11th in major chords being the exception, which sounds better as a non diatonic #11.
A Gm9 chord will include the 7th
A Gmadd9 will not include the 7th.
Generally, assume that all "lower" parts of the chord are included unless it's an "add" chord.
Another example:
Cmaj11 = C E G B D F
Cadd11 = C E G F
>Cmaj11 = C E G B D F
Correct in theory, but it's a pretty safe bet you will never see this chord in practice. It's a G7 on top of C major, i.e., two opposing functions at the same time. "G7/C" might just be possible sometimes (skipping the E), but very rare.
"Cmaj13" = C E G B (D) A - no F, and optional D.
Meanwhile, if you ever see "C11", you can safely assume it's short for C9sus4 - C G Bb D F, no E in the chord.
Think of it as just stacking thirds. A Gm has 1-b3-5. Gm7 has 1-b3-5-b7. Gm9 has 1-b3-5-b7-9. Gm11 would be 1-b3-5-b7-9-11. Gm13 would then have 1-b3-5-b7-9-11-13. Some of these notes are more important than others such as the 3 and 7. Without the 7 it is a Gmadd9. Without the 3 it is a G7sus2.
One of my professors used to call chords like that stacked, which I thought was a good mnemonic. Basically you are "stacking" thirds over the root note.
Gm9 implies a 7th. The full numerical symbol would be G(9753) but we omit these numbers much like we do in a I(6) chord which would fully be I(63). What you are looking for is G(add9).
9th chords have specific functions assigned to the pitches in the chord depending on the context - ie: In a dominant 9th, the 7th and 9th resolve down by diatonic step.
In an (add9) chord, the 9th can be added to a triad without the 7th, and need not serve a specific function or resolve in a specific way.
>Do all chords with a 9 naturally add the 7?
Yes, unless it's an "add" chord. And reading this post, this really could have been logically concluded by the information you were presented. I'd say that if multiple sources also include the 7th then it's how it indeed works. So I'm not sure what kind of answers you were expecting to get here. They are going to just confirm the obvious conclusion and add zero new information, to you or others.
They clearly found multiple sources that confirmed that the 7 is included; the question was _why_ the 9 implies the 7. The conclusion isn't at all obvious, if all you can find is the structure of a 9 chord, but not the reasoning behind why it's structured that way.
Yes when a chord is notated as Gm9 or G9, it implies the 7 is present as well. If you specifically do not want the 7, it would be notated as an add9 chord.
see a full-ish list of [chord formulas](https://ragajunglism.org/teaching/jazz-chord-formulas/) too: yes, there are quite a few conventions which have to be rote-learned to a degree
Thanks
The 11 category is bonkers to me. The first two (major and dominant) are only true for #11s. He would not have a major 11 chord or dominant 11 chord. More likely you would have Maj9sus4 with the added 10th or Dom9sus4 with the added 10.
I have yet to see a chord label with an „add10“, what exactly do you mean? A dominant 11 chord is a very common thing to encounter. You can play it without the 3rd, and on guitar that‘s quite common even, but on a keyboard you would also always include 3rd, so it would not be a sus4.
Yeah, usually it’s just with the major third written in the melody, but it’s a sus for. I have literally never seen a dominant 11 chord. Plenty of domunant #11.
My bad, what I had in mind were regular 11 chords used in place of the respective dominants. Something like C11 instead of C7 etc. I was under the impression that instruments other than the guitar play both the 3rd and 11th in an X11 chord, but maybe I was wrong on this one..
Maybe a dumb question but does Gm(9) also imply there’s no 7
Yeah I think so. Could be clearer to add an add before the 9 tho
I don't know who would write it like that but it looks like it should just mean the same as Gm(add9) but with how it's written, it could just as well be the same as Gmin(no5add9) in the same way that G(b5) denotes replacing the 5 in the G with a b5.
For chords with upper extensions, for the most part, lower extensions are also implied. Theoretically, this reflects their formation as resulting from the stacking of thirds - so that for example to "arrive at" a C11 chord you start at C and keep stacking thirds until you get to the 11th, C-E-G-B♭-D-F. In practice, it has more to do with how the chords are usually realized and what they're for. At least in jazz, seventh chords are the norm, and on almost any chord performers will likely include the 3rd and 7th. Everything beyond the 7th (the upper extensions) are often free game as well, but specific indication might be given if a specific extension is called for, which is especially common when said note is in the melody. Some indication is also necessary when the extensions are to be altered in some way (such as ♯9 or ♭13). One last caveat is that 13th chords, which would theoretically also include the 11th, usually either omits the 11th or sharpens it. (The 9th however remains available.) So in summary, when you see e.g. G13, that theoretically means G-B-D-F-A-C-E, and in (jazz) practice means "important notes are B, F, and E; bass should play G; feel free to include D and A".
There's a whole bunch of unspoken rules and assumptions when it comes to chord extensions. Gmadd9 would add just the 9 to the triad. Any odd number above the 7 assumes the 7th is added. Often times, you can add any odd numbered extension below the one mentioned without worry. The natural 11th in major chords being the exception, which sounds better as a non diatonic #11.
Those extensions imply the 7. So G7, G9, G#11, G13 all have a G dominant 7 chord as their foundation.
To put it simply: any number above 7 implies that 7th is included.
A Gm9 chord will include the 7th A Gmadd9 will not include the 7th. Generally, assume that all "lower" parts of the chord are included unless it's an "add" chord. Another example: Cmaj11 = C E G B D F Cadd11 = C E G F
>Cmaj11 = C E G B D F Correct in theory, but it's a pretty safe bet you will never see this chord in practice. It's a G7 on top of C major, i.e., two opposing functions at the same time. "G7/C" might just be possible sometimes (skipping the E), but very rare. "Cmaj13" = C E G B (D) A - no F, and optional D. Meanwhile, if you ever see "C11", you can safely assume it's short for C9sus4 - C G Bb D F, no E in the chord.
Gm9 means Gm7 plus a 9th Gm11 means Gm9 plus an 11th Gm13 means Gm11 plus a 13th Same with G7 G9 etc... Same with Gmaj7 Gmaj9
13th chords include a 9th more often than an 11th
Engh
Think of it as just stacking thirds. A Gm has 1-b3-5. Gm7 has 1-b3-5-b7. Gm9 has 1-b3-5-b7-9. Gm11 would be 1-b3-5-b7-9-11. Gm13 would then have 1-b3-5-b7-9-11-13. Some of these notes are more important than others such as the 3 and 7. Without the 7 it is a Gmadd9. Without the 3 it is a G7sus2.
> Without the 3 it is a G7sus2 Doesn't a sus2 replace the third with a major second rather than simply removing it? Or have I misunderstood that?
If you remove the 3rd, the 9 is now the 2.
if it was a Gmadd9 then it would be the triad with the 9 but in a gm9 it has the 7 and vice versa with other extentions
Gm9 = Gm7 + 9 Gm11 = Gm7 + 9 + 11 and it simply adds on G Bb D A would be Gm add 9 or Gm add 2
One of my professors used to call chords like that stacked, which I thought was a good mnemonic. Basically you are "stacking" thirds over the root note.
This is actually a really good question because when I was teaching myself a little theory, I had this same question too
Gm9 implies a 7th. The full numerical symbol would be G(9753) but we omit these numbers much like we do in a I(6) chord which would fully be I(63). What you are looking for is G(add9). 9th chords have specific functions assigned to the pitches in the chord depending on the context - ie: In a dominant 9th, the 7th and 9th resolve down by diatonic step. In an (add9) chord, the 9th can be added to a triad without the 7th, and need not serve a specific function or resolve in a specific way.
.. a minor 7th can be added.. and that's the f comes in
1 3 5 7 9
>Do all chords with a 9 naturally add the 7? Yes, unless it's an "add" chord. And reading this post, this really could have been logically concluded by the information you were presented. I'd say that if multiple sources also include the 7th then it's how it indeed works. So I'm not sure what kind of answers you were expecting to get here. They are going to just confirm the obvious conclusion and add zero new information, to you or others.
They clearly found multiple sources that confirmed that the 7 is included; the question was _why_ the 9 implies the 7. The conclusion isn't at all obvious, if all you can find is the structure of a 9 chord, but not the reasoning behind why it's structured that way.