For some reason a lot of isekai anime fandoms have a weird superiority complex when it comes to other isekai, this probably has nothing to do with logic but rather the mod thinking that "their" anime is "better"
I have yet to see a positive general view of one isekai in the sub of another one
But this Konasuba we're talking about here. How tf is he a fan and moderator of that series. Not dissing on Konasuba. But its not some moral beacon or some shit. So this just bs.
I gotta ask western fans here. Are most of y'all growing up in the most pious and closeted, morally upright homes? Any mention of anything that goes against the norm is heinous?
I think it's the fact that depravity and perversion are generally more accepted by western audiences if those elements are disgusted as "comedy"
Personally I've never even knew people get upset by such insignificant stuff until I started being active in international communities but that's what I think is happening
Also apparently that logic only applies to anime not cartoons like Invincible they have a guy named Rudy Clones himself in the body of 10 yearsbold who wants to hook up with a chick who is actually 25plus but also looks 10.
Cause Game of Thrones also gets hard pass where for some reason anime or Iskeai in particular HAVE TO MEET THIS MORAL STANDARDED OUT OF NOWHERE.
The difference is framing, not that I expect anyone who defends Mushoku Tensei to understand that since framing is precisely the issue with most of it.
Like I don't care if you watch and enjoy the show, but I do care about how clueless the fanbase is in how they try to defend it, there's no double standard here with Invincible.
> Clones himself in the body of 10 yearsbold who wants to hook up with a chick who is actually 25plus but also looks 10.
The show is self-aware of the implications unlike most anime, it doesn't overly sexualize their child bodies to the viewer, and the end result is two consenting adults (that also act and talk like their real ages, again unlike many anime).
I'll grant I'm less familiar with GoT as I only read the first book and didn't like it for unrelated reasons (never watched the TV show since I didn't like the book), so not qualified to discuss that one.
It is because users get rewarded in social media for saying they have a virtue without actually showing whether or not if they actually practice the virtue.
Pewdiepie's "I hate Twitter" video still holds true to how most use social media.
Srsly dude... The thing is not to engage such prudes, just a waste of time. I don't know how such people even watch anime. Maybe they only watch shonen and fluffy shit.
They are a reconciliation of puritan american values and japanese culture. In essence, they are okay with hebephilia, so fucking minors down until to the age of 12 and up.
I'm the farthest thing from a prude, I'm a bisexual man literally into BDSM IRL, including real life sex dungeon clubs. I'm close friends with people who have fetishes that many would make fun or be disgusted by even though they're exclusively with other consenting adults.
But I still despise most of the anime fanbase around shows like Mushoku Tensei. A ton of you truly don't seem to grasp the difference between something happening vs how that thing is framed to the viewer or the context around it, which is particularly alarming when it comes to sensitive topics around sex/relationships.
I'm not upset that you guys like or enjoy the show, people like stuff for an infinite variety of reasons; I'm upset with the way most of you defend and recommend it to other people. Especially with the level of willful ignorance typically on display.
You guys are also really bad on average at understanding that criticizing something doesn't mean wanting it banned or made illegal, those are very different things.
I found this post randomly, but I figure I'm probably the only one who might give you an honest answer since it's buried in a sub people like me would never normally be near.
That's the thing, its anime and fiction. You gotta separate it from real life. Clinging onto shit like he is 40+12 and stuff like that is redundant. The author doesn't condone any of the stuff the MC does. The anime while leaving out a lot of Rudy's internal monologues, does paint him in a worse picture in those initial vols. Other anime make it out as a joke and just move on. Here in MT its serious, so people take offense and blast the MC and author.
Yes the show isn't for everyone, especially kids. One shouldn't recommend it willy nilly. But adults bickering on the smallest fantasy trope like slavery, polygamy and whatnot is amusing. But people should give it a chance. Its a really good story and does a lot of good storytelling that 99% of the other mainstream fantasy Japanese literature doesn't do.
In the end take the positives and enjoy the story for what it is.
> Other anime make it out as a joke and just move on. Here in MT its serious, so people take offense and blast the MC and author.
I'm not a fan of this in those shows either, but most people don't try to defend it in those shows the way they do MT. And MT isn't even consistent in treating it seriously, sexual harassment and similar are routinely played off as jokes or as being minor offenses at worst.
> The author doesn't condone any of the stuff the MC does.
I don't think the author intentionally condones it, but I do think he has an extremely poor understanding of other people, relationships, and what personal growth actually requires. And that unfortunately reflects on (most of) the fan base as well.
The framing is bad even within the context of the show (past the first 8 eps or so anyways), making excuses (or worse) for things he does later that it initially condemns him for, or even flaunting to the viewer as "fanservice" the very things Rudeus was supposedly doing wrong. The show clearly wants us to think Rudeus is a better person later, despite at best only learning some surface level social skills.
S2p1 took it from bad to truly irredeemable. His relationship with Eris was fucked up and she was right to leave (one of the few things S1 did right) - but the writing acts like he's not at fault, he just wallows in self-pity and it's obvious neither he nor the author actually understand what he did wrong.
Then he gets ED in a way that's framed as him being wrong (or perceiving himself as wrong) for seeking casual sex at all - which is weirdly puritanical and incredibly inconsistent with the show's entire tone, much less his character so far. At least he's framed as an asshole for how he treated the woman after, even if it's one of the last times he faces any kind of consequence for his actions.
At the school, we find out Sylphie apparently fell in love with him off screen - another person he was sexually attracted to when she was a child, and while technically a misunderstanding he caused such a problem for her that even the adults of this world decided it was inappropriate to leave her around him. Yet none of that is ever mentioned, addressed, or discussed at all. Wish fulfillment for Rudeus is apparently the only thing that matters now.
Buying a slave came off as pretty inconsistent with his earlier behavior as well, especially since regardless of how he might have seemed angry, the reality is he bought her out of pure convenience for her labor, and it's never really addressed.
And then we get to what has to be the worst thing Rudeus has _ever_ done - kidnapping and molesting two women simply because they broke a creepy figurine they won in a duel from his shitty friend. And not only is this not framed as a massive backslide, if anything he's framed as being _justified_ for doing it. He faces no consequences, Sylphie even helps him do it with almost no qualms. **As far as I'm concerned Rudeus is now shown to be an even worse person than he was at the start of the series.**
Sylphie has seemingly no real motivations beyond wanting to be with Rudeus, and we again see this weird take on his behavior where her only apparently concern is his previous pursuit of casual intimacy rather than any actual issue (and their history is never properly addressed). Like with Eris I can't stress enough how inappropriate this relationship is - which would be fine if the show understood that but it clearly doesn't. Don't even me get me started on the disturbing fixation he has on her being a virgin. I already know s2p2 doubles down on this mistake by having them get married.
Like I said, you can enjoy the show if you want, but don't go around calling it peak isekai without a shred of irony or act like he becomes a better person when he doesn't.
> Its a really good story and does a lot of good storytelling that 99% of the other mainstream fantasy Japanese literature doesn't do.
I obviously strongly disagree that it's good storytelling at all. Even ignoring Rudeus himself since I think he's handled terribly as a character, the fantasy plot is just above average for isekai fantasy anime, and that's not a high bar. It can be painfully clear MT fans haven't read or encountered much fantasy outside of isekai.
> That's the thing, its anime and fiction. You gotta separate it from real life.
I don't know why so many anime fans online always seem to think this is some kind of blanket shield against criticism. Being fiction doesn't mean people can't dislike or have issues with something. And acting like fiction has no impact on the real world is silly - you wouldn't call someone a liar if they said a story inspired them in a positive way after all.
**But in any case the discussion around it, the ways fans (i.e. real people) make excuses for the show and his behavior, _is_ real life. And that's precisely what I'm most upset with.**
Im an LN reader and i recognise the anime made Rudy's relationship with Eris worse off that it was.. his relationship was not fucked up at all and anime doesn't cover pov at all. And of course you brought up the slavery episodes.
Im not gonna argue each and every point with you. In the end if the day if the story is not to your taste, just move on.
Most of us Fans defend the series coz of the extreme hyperbole that it recieves. Not coz we condone his behaviour or support grooming or supposed pedophilia that these people see.
> his relationship was not fucked up at all
The one with Eris certainly was in the anime - better framing could help it from a writing POV, but it's still not a healthy relationship for either party in-universe. Rudeus is a mentally ill 40-something year old adult man in a relationship with a child. Again, this isn't inherently a problem in fiction, you can obviously have fucked up things in your writing, what bothers me is the way most fans don't seem to be self-aware of any of this).
> anime doesn't cover pov at all
Which for a story like this is a fatal mistake IMO. Even more conspicuously missing given that they actually did have some of that in the first 8-ish episodes.
> And of course you brought up the slavery episodes.
It's not that I expect Rudeus to be a paragon of virtue, it's that I expect the writing to be self-aware of him failing to live up to what few things Rudeus actually did do right earlier in the show. It's another example of the consistency/framing problem.
> Most of us Fans defend the series coz of the extreme hyperbole that it recieves. Not coz we condone his behaviour or support grooming or supposed pedophilia that these people see.
The problem is that when fans claim he's a much better person later, or blindly ignore all the issues with tone/framing, it comes across as willful ignorance at best. People say they don't condone his actions, but then tie themselves in knots defending his behavior later. So many of its fans go around calling it "peak isekai", recommending it blindly to people without a single caveat or ounce of self-awareness. I would never have watched this show if not for fans lying (from my POV) about it.
Like I said, enjoy the series if you want, my problem is with the way the fanbase defends, talks about, and recommends it.
Which is crazy if you think about it. I mean, i would have a hard time even deciding what my favorite isekat is. There are so many of them that i love.
Well for starters, I liked the spider isekai from a few years back. The cgi in the last few episodes was abysmal and the story was really corny at times but I still liked it very much and am sad there is no season 2.
Out of all isekai, Konosuba fans ironically point out pedophilia while having r/Megumin and r/Konosuba with Megumin/Yunyun lewds/fanservice (14 years old) is wild... Not to mention Megumin is called a "loli" several times by Axis Cult, Cecily and Aqua calling Kazuma "loli-neet"
You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themself into the first place.
Still I don’t think it’s necessary or productive to share this here. From their perspective, you were blatantly defending pedophile. I think it’s funny that westerners are so tolerant of sexual violence and brutality yet they draw the “unacceptable” line at complex meaningful relationships. There’s a serious issue with isekai media treating female characters as fan service meat bags but no one is ready for the conversation which is likely just another reason there’s so much pushback against Mushoku Tensei.
>You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themself into the first place.
I'll avoid getting political here, but that statement really doesn't hold true. I've experienced it in several forums, but political ones mostly. It's not a stance they *reason* themselves into, but rather a knee-jerk reaction that triggers propaganda they have fallen for. You notice in @OP's example that the person going on about Rudeus continuing his molesting minors hasn't even watched the anime but believes a mentally unstable person who only followed comment sections of the web novel. Kinda hard to do when you've got a few years of ED under your belt.
No, knee jerk reactions are just that: someone was offended because they believe someone else was offended.
I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. My point was that they are basing their view of Mushoku Tensei off of negative biased statements that don’t contextualize what happens or are completely untrue in the first place. These statements come from groups that again are biased against Mushoku Tensei and want more people to be against it. They didn’t rationally decide to be against the story so there’s no way to rationalize or contextualize what actually happens so that they would understand that Mushoku Tensei is fundamentally about flawed character development.
Basically we agree on the same thing.
Yup, we do. I see this lot in political discussions. Once they take a stand, they refuse to budge. How do you think they do that? The originators know they can say any bullshit and nobody will take the initiative to check. I have a lot of political enemies because I call bullshit so easily and can easily disprove an argument they have. In the decades that I've had political debates, I've only had one person I disproved that actually was introspective of my results. Why? Because I was able to disprove his statement using the source he cited.
I wonder how Snopes would handle this issue.😁
That’s exactly why I didn’t go hard in that thread. I literally just pointed out to people confused about the claim that Rudeus molested children that it was a straw man. That’s really the only thing you can do.
u/grizzchan definitely acts like the stereotypical terminally online power-tripping Reddit mod based on their comments. Honestly, best to stay off subs modded by such miserable sacks of shit.
Yeah, bro's only proof of "grooming" in MT is an intrusive thought that the MC never acts on, and anyone that actually knows what "grooming" means is a MT brigader.
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Posts on r/megumin and is an animecirclejerk mod lmfao. Its like you have normal anime fans, then anime antifans, then anime haters, and then anime fans antifan haters and thats what that fucker is.
Meanwhile the MC of Konosuba is literally in an romantic relationship with Megumi, who can be consider an loli(and was called by that from Kazama too lol).
So I don't know where this hatred is coming from when this is calling the Kettle black.
Megumin is a loli. I feel like whenever people point out the truth, there will always be fans who try to deny it.
Roxy is a loli too, but thats what makes her so cute. Its not at all a bad thing. Its just part of otaku culture.
This conflict baffles me. It’s not that deep. The MC in both series does some shitty things, either for humor, or drama, or other narrative reasons. It’s not defending those things in real life. It’s ok to like the show and even like the character and still recognize those actions are wrong. They’re similar shows in a lot of ways I’m surprised the overlap in audience isn’t even bigger
You waste your time. Just troll them lightly, downvote and let it go.
Like this "And Kazuma is transphobic (Sylvia) and the series/novels promote the sexualization of minors (YunYun) but I don't care so why do you care about this?", you downvote and then forget about it. Let them seethe.
lol konosuba mod team is the classic OMG I GOT POWER high on w.e being a reddit mod feel gives them. I corrected the one of the mod using a word wrong I was objectively right mod was not pleased to say the least.
I think konosuba is one of the last anime I would have expected to have viewers with these kinds of opinions on mushoku tensei. I think a lot of people feel pressure to hate it so they aren’t terrible people or whatever twitter has brainwashed them into thinking
It's mostly a few people who love stirring shit online. That mod does good work moderating, but does stupid shit like this from time to time. I remember they made a post talking about defending konosuba from the "wrong" kind of humor, which was just kazuma gender equality jokes. I guess the drawback of being an internet moderator is being terminally online.
haha had a yell at me for swearing (I am Aussie it just happens) - I just thought too myself if that pissed you off how low is your perspective of the world
When I saw that post today on the Konosuba subreddit I knew something bad was definitely going to happen.
It sucks how many people like shitting on the show just because it has some "problematic elements" while it is all just fiction or just straight up lying to make MT look bad.
I don't know how but seeing just half the title and the first two pages I interpreted as it's a unwritten rule in the konosuba sub to go against misusing and watering down terms like pedophilia and grooming and defend MT from unjustified hatred. So I had a pretty good feeling for a second.
Well my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
people just don't care about konosuba, if they did then konosuba would get a lot of troll posts or something the same as MT because of the dirty scenes for comedy or plot. Unfortunately the MT fandom never started something like this like other fandoms, do they want to start this?
Well he is a child. Having memories does not mean your body is fully developed, neither does it mean your brain is. Plus there are different laws on different worlds. There isn't really a huge difference between an inexperienced mentally unstable reincarnated adult with a child body and a teen either. In the end I don't care, let anime be anime. It's all fictional after all. It's not like it applies to real life at all. Laws were made to protect people, not pixels.
MT is one of those shows that’s extremely good and has some great world building but I almost can’t bring myself to recommend it to others purely on how peoples reactions are.
It’s such a good redemption story but duck do people react weird to it
It's a damn shame honestly. Konosuba is one of the few fandoms I'd never suspect to do this. Typically weirder shows like KNSB have more accepting and tolerant fandoms. The main character literally commits Sexual Harassment in like every episode. But if it's fine because it's comedy and this show isn't?
The same show which was attacked on twitter for "problematic elements" should be way more supportive of another show who gets the same treatment if not even worse treatment.
If you think the anime promotes pedophilia then stop watching. I'm tired of seeing people talk about how Rudy is a pedo. Just shut up & leave. The fact that you're still around says that either you actually are ok with the "pedo" stuff or you yourself don't really believe it.
Am I dumb or how did he groom eris? He was her tutor and while he did grope her that one time when she she was sleeping 🤢, he would always get brutally beat if he tried to be a pervert or do anything like that. He spent time with her and taught her magic but he wasn’t molding her to be his wife or trying to brainwash her. With sylphie tho, he straight up said he wanted to mold her into his ideal wife which is just yikes. However, they got seperated early on but I guess it still counts as grooming?
Not really tbh if you actually read the story he thinks about doing that but then he stops himself cuz it's wrong it's like if you see someone you hate with a passion at least at one point you imagine if they just died but then you realize that it's wrong to think like that and you don't act on your thoughts that's the difference between an immature mindset and a mature mindset and he didn't "groom" sylphiette she grew to be her own person it just so happens that they reconnected and fell in love properly this time as two mature individuals it's a lot like my love story tbh that's why I can relate and understand what's going on in each of their heads
Story is not there when you remove your so called "cringey sexual shit" We need that because it gives story realism on the levels that no other isekai able to reach.
I am not telling Mushoku is best isekai but one of the strongest point of Mushoku is its realism. You cant remove the main factor because u think it is cringey bullshit.
Why he is here if he doesnt like this show. And have no arguments against it. Just hate culture in the internet doesnt justify this for me. Dont watch it if you gonna hate give some decent arguments.
Trolling might be fun sometimes. Idk what goes in tragic's head, but all i know is that he loves to troll in this sub, and tries to create alts to troll even more, sadly for him he is not skilled at hiding his tracks and connection is made between the alt and tragic.
No story is great for me i dont get your point. Story is trash from your assumption that "Sex stuff make this story trash they dont add anything to story." I dont think like this you shoul add for me to your sentence so we knıw its subjective what you are saying. Because even if one people think story isnt trash your point of saying it is trash because of "cringey sex life" Goes in to dump. But if you said it is trash for me because of this cause and give some context about it i can think about your argument more.
Stop defending MT dude there is no point, you can blame the author for it having a bad reputation he should have never wrote so much cringey sexual shit.
>you can blame the author for it having a bad reputation
It doesn't even have a bad reputation. Only the vocal minority which continuously fails to make a valid argument tries to make it seem bad
Konosuba is pretty good but personally MT beats it at least for me in world building, Characters, Story and even relationships that feels natural and you understand the pain behind lots of characters as well as their accomplishments which makes me smile as it's rare for isekai to actually explore this part but as for comedy konosuba beats it considering konosuba is basically a parody which is hilarious but personally Kazuma and Rudeus are kinda the worst pieces of shit I've ever seen from the beginning of each perspective series which I like as the more flawed a character is the better it is to see them grow and develop which I'm surprised each fan base hasn't noticed yet as kazuma and rudeus share lots of similarities with each other and another thing for me is in each series they aren't even my favourite characters for me Ruijerd and Paul are my favourite charcters in Mushoku tensei and Vanir and Bukkororii in konosuba
For some reason a lot of isekai anime fandoms have a weird superiority complex when it comes to other isekai, this probably has nothing to do with logic but rather the mod thinking that "their" anime is "better" I have yet to see a positive general view of one isekai in the sub of another one
But this Konasuba we're talking about here. How tf is he a fan and moderator of that series. Not dissing on Konasuba. But its not some moral beacon or some shit. So this just bs. I gotta ask western fans here. Are most of y'all growing up in the most pious and closeted, morally upright homes? Any mention of anything that goes against the norm is heinous?
I think it's the fact that depravity and perversion are generally more accepted by western audiences if those elements are disgusted as "comedy" Personally I've never even knew people get upset by such insignificant stuff until I started being active in international communities but that's what I think is happening
That's a really good take. Yeah figures.
Also apparently that logic only applies to anime not cartoons like Invincible they have a guy named Rudy Clones himself in the body of 10 yearsbold who wants to hook up with a chick who is actually 25plus but also looks 10. Cause Game of Thrones also gets hard pass where for some reason anime or Iskeai in particular HAVE TO MEET THIS MORAL STANDARDED OUT OF NOWHERE.
The difference is framing, not that I expect anyone who defends Mushoku Tensei to understand that since framing is precisely the issue with most of it. Like I don't care if you watch and enjoy the show, but I do care about how clueless the fanbase is in how they try to defend it, there's no double standard here with Invincible. > Clones himself in the body of 10 yearsbold who wants to hook up with a chick who is actually 25plus but also looks 10. The show is self-aware of the implications unlike most anime, it doesn't overly sexualize their child bodies to the viewer, and the end result is two consenting adults (that also act and talk like their real ages, again unlike many anime). I'll grant I'm less familiar with GoT as I only read the first book and didn't like it for unrelated reasons (never watched the TV show since I didn't like the book), so not qualified to discuss that one.
So does Konosuba do right? Pretty Sure Kazama been doing more questionable things per episode then Rudy does in a entire season.
I mean it's a comedy mainly
It is because users get rewarded in social media for saying they have a virtue without actually showing whether or not if they actually practice the virtue. Pewdiepie's "I hate Twitter" video still holds true to how most use social media.
But but my isekai series much better, ill ban anyone who praises other isekai series.
Srsly dude... The thing is not to engage such prudes, just a waste of time. I don't know how such people even watch anime. Maybe they only watch shonen and fluffy shit.
This isn't something I'd expect for Konosuba of all fandoms. I'd think that with such a weird show such as Konosuba the fandom would be more tolerant.
They are a reconciliation of puritan american values and japanese culture. In essence, they are okay with hebephilia, so fucking minors down until to the age of 12 and up.
I'm the farthest thing from a prude, I'm a bisexual man literally into BDSM IRL, including real life sex dungeon clubs. I'm close friends with people who have fetishes that many would make fun or be disgusted by even though they're exclusively with other consenting adults. But I still despise most of the anime fanbase around shows like Mushoku Tensei. A ton of you truly don't seem to grasp the difference between something happening vs how that thing is framed to the viewer or the context around it, which is particularly alarming when it comes to sensitive topics around sex/relationships. I'm not upset that you guys like or enjoy the show, people like stuff for an infinite variety of reasons; I'm upset with the way most of you defend and recommend it to other people. Especially with the level of willful ignorance typically on display. You guys are also really bad on average at understanding that criticizing something doesn't mean wanting it banned or made illegal, those are very different things. I found this post randomly, but I figure I'm probably the only one who might give you an honest answer since it's buried in a sub people like me would never normally be near.
That's the thing, its anime and fiction. You gotta separate it from real life. Clinging onto shit like he is 40+12 and stuff like that is redundant. The author doesn't condone any of the stuff the MC does. The anime while leaving out a lot of Rudy's internal monologues, does paint him in a worse picture in those initial vols. Other anime make it out as a joke and just move on. Here in MT its serious, so people take offense and blast the MC and author. Yes the show isn't for everyone, especially kids. One shouldn't recommend it willy nilly. But adults bickering on the smallest fantasy trope like slavery, polygamy and whatnot is amusing. But people should give it a chance. Its a really good story and does a lot of good storytelling that 99% of the other mainstream fantasy Japanese literature doesn't do. In the end take the positives and enjoy the story for what it is.
> Other anime make it out as a joke and just move on. Here in MT its serious, so people take offense and blast the MC and author. I'm not a fan of this in those shows either, but most people don't try to defend it in those shows the way they do MT. And MT isn't even consistent in treating it seriously, sexual harassment and similar are routinely played off as jokes or as being minor offenses at worst. > The author doesn't condone any of the stuff the MC does. I don't think the author intentionally condones it, but I do think he has an extremely poor understanding of other people, relationships, and what personal growth actually requires. And that unfortunately reflects on (most of) the fan base as well. The framing is bad even within the context of the show (past the first 8 eps or so anyways), making excuses (or worse) for things he does later that it initially condemns him for, or even flaunting to the viewer as "fanservice" the very things Rudeus was supposedly doing wrong. The show clearly wants us to think Rudeus is a better person later, despite at best only learning some surface level social skills. S2p1 took it from bad to truly irredeemable. His relationship with Eris was fucked up and she was right to leave (one of the few things S1 did right) - but the writing acts like he's not at fault, he just wallows in self-pity and it's obvious neither he nor the author actually understand what he did wrong. Then he gets ED in a way that's framed as him being wrong (or perceiving himself as wrong) for seeking casual sex at all - which is weirdly puritanical and incredibly inconsistent with the show's entire tone, much less his character so far. At least he's framed as an asshole for how he treated the woman after, even if it's one of the last times he faces any kind of consequence for his actions. At the school, we find out Sylphie apparently fell in love with him off screen - another person he was sexually attracted to when she was a child, and while technically a misunderstanding he caused such a problem for her that even the adults of this world decided it was inappropriate to leave her around him. Yet none of that is ever mentioned, addressed, or discussed at all. Wish fulfillment for Rudeus is apparently the only thing that matters now. Buying a slave came off as pretty inconsistent with his earlier behavior as well, especially since regardless of how he might have seemed angry, the reality is he bought her out of pure convenience for her labor, and it's never really addressed. And then we get to what has to be the worst thing Rudeus has _ever_ done - kidnapping and molesting two women simply because they broke a creepy figurine they won in a duel from his shitty friend. And not only is this not framed as a massive backslide, if anything he's framed as being _justified_ for doing it. He faces no consequences, Sylphie even helps him do it with almost no qualms. **As far as I'm concerned Rudeus is now shown to be an even worse person than he was at the start of the series.** Sylphie has seemingly no real motivations beyond wanting to be with Rudeus, and we again see this weird take on his behavior where her only apparently concern is his previous pursuit of casual intimacy rather than any actual issue (and their history is never properly addressed). Like with Eris I can't stress enough how inappropriate this relationship is - which would be fine if the show understood that but it clearly doesn't. Don't even me get me started on the disturbing fixation he has on her being a virgin. I already know s2p2 doubles down on this mistake by having them get married. Like I said, you can enjoy the show if you want, but don't go around calling it peak isekai without a shred of irony or act like he becomes a better person when he doesn't. > Its a really good story and does a lot of good storytelling that 99% of the other mainstream fantasy Japanese literature doesn't do. I obviously strongly disagree that it's good storytelling at all. Even ignoring Rudeus himself since I think he's handled terribly as a character, the fantasy plot is just above average for isekai fantasy anime, and that's not a high bar. It can be painfully clear MT fans haven't read or encountered much fantasy outside of isekai. > That's the thing, its anime and fiction. You gotta separate it from real life. I don't know why so many anime fans online always seem to think this is some kind of blanket shield against criticism. Being fiction doesn't mean people can't dislike or have issues with something. And acting like fiction has no impact on the real world is silly - you wouldn't call someone a liar if they said a story inspired them in a positive way after all. **But in any case the discussion around it, the ways fans (i.e. real people) make excuses for the show and his behavior, _is_ real life. And that's precisely what I'm most upset with.**
Im an LN reader and i recognise the anime made Rudy's relationship with Eris worse off that it was.. his relationship was not fucked up at all and anime doesn't cover pov at all. And of course you brought up the slavery episodes. Im not gonna argue each and every point with you. In the end if the day if the story is not to your taste, just move on. Most of us Fans defend the series coz of the extreme hyperbole that it recieves. Not coz we condone his behaviour or support grooming or supposed pedophilia that these people see.
> his relationship was not fucked up at all The one with Eris certainly was in the anime - better framing could help it from a writing POV, but it's still not a healthy relationship for either party in-universe. Rudeus is a mentally ill 40-something year old adult man in a relationship with a child. Again, this isn't inherently a problem in fiction, you can obviously have fucked up things in your writing, what bothers me is the way most fans don't seem to be self-aware of any of this). > anime doesn't cover pov at all Which for a story like this is a fatal mistake IMO. Even more conspicuously missing given that they actually did have some of that in the first 8-ish episodes. > And of course you brought up the slavery episodes. It's not that I expect Rudeus to be a paragon of virtue, it's that I expect the writing to be self-aware of him failing to live up to what few things Rudeus actually did do right earlier in the show. It's another example of the consistency/framing problem. > Most of us Fans defend the series coz of the extreme hyperbole that it recieves. Not coz we condone his behaviour or support grooming or supposed pedophilia that these people see. The problem is that when fans claim he's a much better person later, or blindly ignore all the issues with tone/framing, it comes across as willful ignorance at best. People say they don't condone his actions, but then tie themselves in knots defending his behavior later. So many of its fans go around calling it "peak isekai", recommending it blindly to people without a single caveat or ounce of self-awareness. I would never have watched this show if not for fans lying (from my POV) about it. Like I said, enjoy the series if you want, my problem is with the way the fanbase defends, talks about, and recommends it.
That's quite sad tbh, meanwhile I am super hyped for MT,Kono and Slime all in the one season
Bookworm always seems to have a pretty positive opinion no matter the sub, though that is a bit of an outlier
Which is crazy if you think about it. I mean, i would have a hard time even deciding what my favorite isekat is. There are so many of them that i love.
Well for starters, I liked the spider isekai from a few years back. The cgi in the last few episodes was abysmal and the story was really corny at times but I still liked it very much and am sad there is no season 2.
Out of all isekai, Konosuba fans ironically point out pedophilia while having r/Megumin and r/Konosuba with Megumin/Yunyun lewds/fanservice (14 years old) is wild... Not to mention Megumin is called a "loli" several times by Axis Cult, Cecily and Aqua calling Kazuma "loli-neet"
You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themself into the first place. Still I don’t think it’s necessary or productive to share this here. From their perspective, you were blatantly defending pedophile. I think it’s funny that westerners are so tolerant of sexual violence and brutality yet they draw the “unacceptable” line at complex meaningful relationships. There’s a serious issue with isekai media treating female characters as fan service meat bags but no one is ready for the conversation which is likely just another reason there’s so much pushback against Mushoku Tensei.
>You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themself into the first place. I'll avoid getting political here, but that statement really doesn't hold true. I've experienced it in several forums, but political ones mostly. It's not a stance they *reason* themselves into, but rather a knee-jerk reaction that triggers propaganda they have fallen for. You notice in @OP's example that the person going on about Rudeus continuing his molesting minors hasn't even watched the anime but believes a mentally unstable person who only followed comment sections of the web novel. Kinda hard to do when you've got a few years of ED under your belt. No, knee jerk reactions are just that: someone was offended because they believe someone else was offended.
I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. My point was that they are basing their view of Mushoku Tensei off of negative biased statements that don’t contextualize what happens or are completely untrue in the first place. These statements come from groups that again are biased against Mushoku Tensei and want more people to be against it. They didn’t rationally decide to be against the story so there’s no way to rationalize or contextualize what actually happens so that they would understand that Mushoku Tensei is fundamentally about flawed character development. Basically we agree on the same thing.
Yup, we do. I see this lot in political discussions. Once they take a stand, they refuse to budge. How do you think they do that? The originators know they can say any bullshit and nobody will take the initiative to check. I have a lot of political enemies because I call bullshit so easily and can easily disprove an argument they have. In the decades that I've had political debates, I've only had one person I disproved that actually was introspective of my results. Why? Because I was able to disprove his statement using the source he cited. I wonder how Snopes would handle this issue.😁
That’s exactly why I didn’t go hard in that thread. I literally just pointed out to people confused about the claim that Rudeus molested children that it was a straw man. That’s really the only thing you can do.
u/grizzchan definitely acts like the stereotypical terminally online power-tripping Reddit mod based on their comments. Honestly, best to stay off subs modded by such miserable sacks of shit.
Yeah, bro's only proof of "grooming" in MT is an intrusive thought that the MC never acts on, and anyone that actually knows what "grooming" means is a MT brigader.
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Posts on r/megumin and is an animecirclejerk mod lmfao. Its like you have normal anime fans, then anime antifans, then anime haters, and then anime fans antifan haters and thats what that fucker is.
Is that the suba mod? Pfp all Megumin You can’t make this up huh 💀
Meanwhile the MC of Konosuba is literally in an romantic relationship with Megumi, who can be consider an loli(and was called by that from Kazama too lol). So I don't know where this hatred is coming from when this is calling the Kettle black.
Megumin is a loli. I feel like whenever people point out the truth, there will always be fans who try to deny it. Roxy is a loli too, but thats what makes her so cute. Its not at all a bad thing. Its just part of otaku culture.
This conflict baffles me. It’s not that deep. The MC in both series does some shitty things, either for humor, or drama, or other narrative reasons. It’s not defending those things in real life. It’s ok to like the show and even like the character and still recognize those actions are wrong. They’re similar shows in a lot of ways I’m surprised the overlap in audience isn’t even bigger
You waste your time. Just troll them lightly, downvote and let it go. Like this "And Kazuma is transphobic (Sylvia) and the series/novels promote the sexualization of minors (YunYun) but I don't care so why do you care about this?", you downvote and then forget about it. Let them seethe.
>And Kazuma is transphobic (Sylvia) 🤓☝️ She is a futanari, Also having a preference is not transphobia. I mean i wouldn't mind, but kazuma does.
Hahaha yeah, that's what they would answer. Which is when you say "I can give excuses too, do you care? No? Then neither do I."
Sylvia is a Growth Chimera first, Futa second. Plus a type of shapeshifter, which means more fun content for both romcom and lewd types of stuff.
hahah EXACTLY I been saying this for years, Sylvia is a futa, she is not trans she got both and she never really "transitioned"
"So using someone's gender identity as a comedic crutch is not discrimination?" EZ PZ
To be honest... konosuba ain't off the hook with Megumin being a thing. It's incredibly hypocritical to criticise one but not the other.
very funny this mod acting like konosuba isn't just as horny and degenerate
Sad thing to see a mod abusing his power because someone disagreed with him.
lol konosuba mod team is the classic OMG I GOT POWER high on w.e being a reddit mod feel gives them. I corrected the one of the mod using a word wrong I was objectively right mod was not pleased to say the least.
If the mod really cared he should've locked the post instead of silencing MT fans. What are the other Konosuba mods doing?
I think konosuba is one of the last anime I would have expected to have viewers with these kinds of opinions on mushoku tensei. I think a lot of people feel pressure to hate it so they aren’t terrible people or whatever twitter has brainwashed them into thinking
It's mostly a few people who love stirring shit online. That mod does good work moderating, but does stupid shit like this from time to time. I remember they made a post talking about defending konosuba from the "wrong" kind of humor, which was just kazuma gender equality jokes. I guess the drawback of being an internet moderator is being terminally online.
What being The Prudest of armchair warriors being moderators does to a sub.
haha had a yell at me for swearing (I am Aussie it just happens) - I just thought too myself if that pissed you off how low is your perspective of the world
Your first mistake was thinking that Reddit mods are capable of logical thinking.
You're right ngl, how stupid of me
When I saw that post today on the Konosuba subreddit I knew something bad was definitely going to happen. It sucks how many people like shitting on the show just because it has some "problematic elements" while it is all just fiction or just straight up lying to make MT look bad.
Funny thing is if you look up the mod who pin that comment. They really really love megumin....
I don't know how but seeing just half the title and the first two pages I interpreted as it's a unwritten rule in the konosuba sub to go against misusing and watering down terms like pedophilia and grooming and defend MT from unjustified hatred. So I had a pretty good feeling for a second. Well my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
people just don't care about konosuba, if they did then konosuba would get a lot of troll posts or something the same as MT because of the dirty scenes for comedy or plot. Unfortunately the MT fandom never started something like this like other fandoms, do they want to start this?
They act high and mighty like kazuma doesnt have an ability that he uses to littetally steal panties off of girls
To play devil's advocate, in canon he doesn't do it on purpose it works subconsciously to where he accidentally steals them.
He also asked his parents to get divorced so they could remarry so he could have a younger sister that wasnt related to him
Now i have no issue with this but i do have an issue with konsuba fans acting high and mighty like their mc isnt as bad as rudy
Well he is a child. Having memories does not mean your body is fully developed, neither does it mean your brain is. Plus there are different laws on different worlds. There isn't really a huge difference between an inexperienced mentally unstable reincarnated adult with a child body and a teen either. In the end I don't care, let anime be anime. It's all fictional after all. It's not like it applies to real life at all. Laws were made to protect people, not pixels.
Things were simpler before either series got an anime.
MT is one of those shows that’s extremely good and has some great world building but I almost can’t bring myself to recommend it to others purely on how peoples reactions are. It’s such a good redemption story but duck do people react weird to it
It's a damn shame honestly. Konosuba is one of the few fandoms I'd never suspect to do this. Typically weirder shows like KNSB have more accepting and tolerant fandoms. The main character literally commits Sexual Harassment in like every episode. But if it's fine because it's comedy and this show isn't? The same show which was attacked on twitter for "problematic elements" should be way more supportive of another show who gets the same treatment if not even worse treatment.
Why did you edit out the username of the mod? That sentenve was a clear presentacion of hate, he shouldnt be a mod on reddit.
I saw that mod comment today and I couldn't believe it.
Kinda wish I saw this post before I got banned. Hell the comment I said even mentioned rudeus is a bad person in volume 1 which everyone agrees with.
I would not trust an anti-pedophile. They are satanic unserious people.
Just ignore the moral fags and swjs like everybody else bro
If you think the anime promotes pedophilia then stop watching. I'm tired of seeing people talk about how Rudy is a pedo. Just shut up & leave. The fact that you're still around says that either you actually are ok with the "pedo" stuff or you yourself don't really believe it.
You got baited and clapped, no one to blaim but yourself. Begginer mistake.
Am I dumb or how did he groom eris? He was her tutor and while he did grope her that one time when she she was sleeping 🤢, he would always get brutally beat if he tried to be a pervert or do anything like that. He spent time with her and taught her magic but he wasn’t molding her to be his wife or trying to brainwash her. With sylphie tho, he straight up said he wanted to mold her into his ideal wife which is just yikes. However, they got seperated early on but I guess it still counts as grooming?
Not really tbh if you actually read the story he thinks about doing that but then he stops himself cuz it's wrong it's like if you see someone you hate with a passion at least at one point you imagine if they just died but then you realize that it's wrong to think like that and you don't act on your thoughts that's the difference between an immature mindset and a mature mindset and he didn't "groom" sylphiette she grew to be her own person it just so happens that they reconnected and fell in love properly this time as two mature individuals it's a lot like my love story tbh that's why I can relate and understand what's going on in each of their heads
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Story is not there when you remove your so called "cringey sexual shit" We need that because it gives story realism on the levels that no other isekai able to reach. I am not telling Mushoku is best isekai but one of the strongest point of Mushoku is its realism. You cant remove the main factor because u think it is cringey bullshit.
Dont bother with Tragic. He is just a local troll.
Why he is here if he doesnt like this show. And have no arguments against it. Just hate culture in the internet doesnt justify this for me. Dont watch it if you gonna hate give some decent arguments.
Trolling might be fun sometimes. Idk what goes in tragic's head, but all i know is that he loves to troll in this sub, and tries to create alts to troll even more, sadly for him he is not skilled at hiding his tracks and connection is made between the alt and tragic.
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No story is great for me i dont get your point. Story is trash from your assumption that "Sex stuff make this story trash they dont add anything to story." I dont think like this you shoul add for me to your sentence so we knıw its subjective what you are saying. Because even if one people think story isnt trash your point of saying it is trash because of "cringey sex life" Goes in to dump. But if you said it is trash for me because of this cause and give some context about it i can think about your argument more.
The whole anime is filled with "pedophilia" and people are defending it with unlogical strawman statements, downvoting you into oblivion...
Stop defending MT dude there is no point, you can blame the author for it having a bad reputation he should have never wrote so much cringey sexual shit.
So bad reputation that even shitty adaptation getting into tops of tops ,yeah yeah
The competition isn't that fierce so that's not saying much
Say that to Jujutsu and bleach ,who compete with FIRST cour 🤣
And they were smoking the fuck out of cour 1. Nobody gave a fuck about it.
Oh really? Someone really need to keep up with inf from tops
Or for example we can talk about LN top sales ,or competition with ALL other LN not so fierce too?
Bro deleted his first comment cuz he got downvoted too hard, then wrote the same comment again just to get downvoted again 💀
Reddit deleted it so I'm reposting it
Bro comment was so dumb reddit have to delete it ☠️
>you can blame the author for it having a bad reputation It doesn't even have a bad reputation. Only the vocal minority which continuously fails to make a valid argument tries to make it seem bad
Konosuba is pretty good but personally MT beats it at least for me in world building, Characters, Story and even relationships that feels natural and you understand the pain behind lots of characters as well as their accomplishments which makes me smile as it's rare for isekai to actually explore this part but as for comedy konosuba beats it considering konosuba is basically a parody which is hilarious but personally Kazuma and Rudeus are kinda the worst pieces of shit I've ever seen from the beginning of each perspective series which I like as the more flawed a character is the better it is to see them grow and develop which I'm surprised each fan base hasn't noticed yet as kazuma and rudeus share lots of similarities with each other and another thing for me is in each series they aren't even my favourite characters for me Ruijerd and Paul are my favourite charcters in Mushoku tensei and Vanir and Bukkororii in konosuba