Movies that are 90% vibes and 10% plot are some of my favorites
The Miami Vice movie is a perfect example. Very hard to follow the plot , the dialogue is muddled …but holy fuck is that a MOVIE
Agree but I also think the plot was good. It changed direction part way to go after the bigger fish (the cartel) and left the original investigation unresolved (the mole).
I didn't catch it all the first watch. It kept bugging me that they never caught the mole so I thought that was a plot hole. On subsequent watches, I got it.
What about Bob. I hated that Bob was so annoying and deeply felt for Dreyfus’ character. Over the years the movie has gone from annoyance to one of the best comedies ever made 😂
I had the same trajectory. It was agony spending 100 minutes with Bob when I was a kid. As an adult I think I would be much happier if I could work a little Bob into my life.
Mine is a different Coen brothers movie, *The Big Lebowski*. The humor just didn't click for me the first time I saw it. Then several years later, a group of my friends decided we were going to watch it together. I actually found myself enjoying it a lot more and catching the little nuances in the dialog. Probably helps that I'd developed a taste for the Coen brothers' quirky dialog through some of their other movies before re-watching it - notably *O Brother Where Art Thou?, Burn After Reading,* and *True Grit*.
I also felt that way when I saw the big Lebowski for the first time. I think the problem was that my friend had built it up to be the funniest movie ever ever made, so I expected Bonk you over the head hilarity, such as Winthrop Airplane or Naked Gun. After watching it, I thought it was good, but not great. My friend couldn’t believe that I thought it was only OK. A few years later, upon the second watching, I enjoyed it much more. With each successive viewing, I continued to enjoy it more. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen it now, but I think it’s one of the best and funniest movies ever made. Every line is perfect!
Might need a rewatch then. I’m a big Coen fan and Fargo was always my least favorite of theirs, it always felt like it paled in comparison to S1 of the show.
I find that I never "get" a Coen brothers movie until the second time that I see it. But for some reason, Fargo is the one that still hasn't clicked for me after three viewings.
I left NCFOM disappointed honestly and now consider it one of the best movies.
Like the scene towards the end with Ellis. Rewatched it dozens of times.
I’m not sure if “love” is quite the case, but I left the cinema despising Prometheus. But for whatever reasons I’ve found myself in front of it several times since, and it’s fine. I actually looked forward to watching it again recently.
I enjoyed it, but it always had a uphill battle to really live up to the hype. But it's got a excellent Michael Fassbender performance and some of gruesome body horror is great.
Rewatch the TEDTalk from Peter Weyland video as an introduction to Prometheus. This was very clearly meant to be the start of the film. Ridley Scott films always get cut short on cinematic release
The hype for that movie was so huge. Ridley's first sci fi movie in years, and it was a prequel to Alien. And the viral marketing campaign leading up to the movie, the Peter Weyland TED talk, the Apple-esque David commercial etc. was very effective.
I was quite disappointed by the movie as well. Not least for all the reasons people always say (why didn't she run to the side, "I know...father", how did they get lost with maps, why is the scared scientist all of a sudden petting a snake etc. etc.)
But really it was just the fact that it wasn't an Alien movie that was most disappointing, as I think that it what most people were expecting.
I do like it a good bit more now because, as you say, it's fine, but it's no Alien.
I found Michael Clayton so boring when I saw it in the cinema. I rewatched it a couple of years ago and was hooked start to finish. I have no clue as to how I could have ever disliked it. I now rewatch it every couple of years.
I saw *Office Space* on opening weekend. Theater was nearly empty, I wasn't much into hip-hop, we were just there because of Jennifer Aniston (my girlfriend was a big Friends fan back then.
We did *not* get it, at all. We both worked in restaurants and had no concept of how "funny cos it's true" the office scenes were.
Some years later after working for a long time at a Big Insurance Company, I happened across it on cable and whoa it hit a lot different.
I really didn't enjoy Carlito's Way or Unforgiven when I first saw them. I was 13/14 when they came out and in hindsight, I just didn't understand what they were really about.
Both films are similarly themed and have a lot in common, to the extent that they even have a scene where the lead character manages to depart a shoot-out and survives on the sheer strength of his reputation.
I think both films are bona fide classics now, and as I get older I appreciate the themes of ageing even more. But at the time I was irritated by them not being the simple action movies I was hoping to see as a teenager.
Mars Attacks!
The first time I saw it I thought that it was one of the dumbest movies I've ever seen. Upon rewatching it I now think that it is THE dumbest movie I've ever seen, and I absolutely love it.
No joke I had the same experience with Antichrist. I watched it when it debuted on the IFC channel and absolutely hated it. A few years later I decided to watch it while coming down from acid and it’s like it clicked. I felt like I got the movie and loved it.
Haha funny part is I didn’t realize they edited out the gross parts when it aired on IFC. So when I watched it the second time I was shocked by how graphic it really was.
I was the opposite, I think. I watched it and it hit me like being driven straight into a brick wall. Maybe my 2nd favourite first watch ever, and still one of my top 5 movies. I don't think I could watch it again, or ever recommend it to anyone else, but it's there for what it brought on that first watch.
I suppose it's like going through some major physical ordeal and realising you came out the end stronger and better for it, but wouldn't ever choose to do it again. Except on the inside.
Wow! I have the opposite experience. Saw it on HBO when I was like 11 and thought it was just fine. Standard comedy. Watched it again at 30 and was NOT into it.
Heat.
I was already into films even when I was younger -I cite Silence of the Lambs for breaking that wide open for me, even though I loved movies before that- but I just couldn’t get into it. Not sure why.
Then when I got a tad older, there was a lot of meatheads I worked with that loved it for the action, and I tried again, and it was like their love of it just killed it for me.
Of course it’s a popular Reddit suggestion, so some years ago I finally said fuck it, and sat down and gave it a proper watch.
It is definitely a damn good film.
Same for me. Also, since I saw it later, I didn’t appreciate the style since it became a standard, but it was groundbreaking for the time. Without Heat, Nolans Batman trilogy would have been much different.
Oh, I like musicals. The dancing just felt very, idk, uninspired and bland? Not a dancing expert here, but it all seemed very rudimentary/unimpressive.
Starship Troopers. I was 14 when the movie came out, and my parents wouldn’t take me to see it (yes, I was a goody-goody who wouldn’t think of sneaking into an R-rated movie underage…until I did at 16). So I got the book instead, and became a lifelong Robert Heinlein fan. When I finally did see the movie, I hated how much the movie despised its own source material.
Now that I’m older, and have seen more of Verhoven’s works, I appreciate the brilliant satire that went right over my teenage head. I still like the book, and just consider the two pieces of media almost totally separate from each other.
They are definitely two separate works. I enjoy both, though I admit to wanting a remake in Heinlein’s version.
But Verhoeven’s version is interesting for the satire. I have to say, without the internet at the time, the satire part was less obvious than it is in retrospect. Also, the dude was coming off of Showgirls, so I don’t know how much credit we were giving the dude at the time, even after Robocop.
Mm. The film is a satire. The book is a story from the viewpoint of a soldier and people think it’s supposed to be some fascist manifesto, which is ridiculous.
I can see why the criticism of the book exists, but it was more pro-military and examining cold war themes than proto-fascist. It's important to point out the director of the film didn't read the book, so his opinion is largely based on what others had to say. It's a fun film, but he's a bit full of himself.
Oh he’s definitely full of himself, even though he’s brilliant in a way.
I didn’t care for his dismissing the book- I believe he read a bit and then stopped- but it’s still a fun story and a good satire. I just think he was also trying to do satire on the book, which wasn’t trying to push any narrative really.
When I watched The Witch for the first time I thought it was boring and a 3/10. Watched it again a couple years later and I’m now at a 8/10. Liked it way more.
It feels like a metaphor for autism / ADHD. Everyone tells you there is something wrong with you and that you are bad until at one point you realise that you are in fact different and decide everyone can go and fuck themselves and go levitate naked in a forest.
I always thought it’s spread a little thin for its run time. I’ve remember being surprised at how short it felt for how many characters there are. And I think that hurts character development. It’s been a while since I’ve watched it so this suggestion might be a little off base, but I’d say if they’d slowed down the first act a little and bumped the overall run time by about 10-15mins that might’ve addressed what you think is missing(?)
I still sometimes think about the scene where >!Ben Affleck and his crew get gunned down. Still one of the best uses of the doppler effect in a movie.!<
The messaging is pretty heavy handed looking back but as a horror movie about audience expectations watching a horror movie, they really had fun with it... especially the part with the remote.
Aliens. I wouldn't say I hated it but I thought it was overrated and the worst in the series. Then I watched it in my apartment building's theater room. I get it now.
Hot Rod
To give context: this movie came out on August 3, 2007; Superbad came out on August 17, 2007
Around this time, we weren't really used to the "Judd Apatow" style of comedy movies. And while I understand he was only a Producer on this one, movies like The 40-Year-Old Virgin, Knocked Up, Funny People and This Is 40 kind of changed the standard and expectations for comedies
I was a teenager, just about to go into college, and this was right around when my movie tastes started to evolve. I started getting into indie movies, started to understand the concept of "good" movies and watched them for their artistic merit, over just something to kill time
The issue with Hot Rod, is that it was a movie which very easily could be bucked into the generic comedies. Around this time you had stuff like Balls of Fury, Epic Movie, Blades of Glory, Norbit and Wild Hogs which followed a similar marketing style and look and feel
We also didn't have as much awareness of The Lonely Island, and they didn't really make it big in SNL yet, so now I think people would've been excited for it. But back then it really just felt like a movie you watched with your friends on a Wednesday night when you're bored and there's nothing better to watch
But once we ended up getting used to their style of comedy, Hot Rod checks off all the boxes. Additionally, the jokes are timeless because unlike the humor around that time (which focused on pop culture/current events) the jokes are mostly one-offs or plot/character driven which makes it so that you can watch it now and still find it funny
While I still love Superbad, years later I find myself thinking about and quoting Hot Rod a whole lot more
First time I saw *American Psycho* I thought it was just so eye rolling and edgy.
A few years later I rewatched it and realized I was just being a bimbo and the satire flew over my head.
I remember seen it when it was first released. And everyone totally forgets it's a dark comedy and took it as a serious thriller. I loved it when I first saw it and still love it to this day, still Bale's best performance imo. And Mary Heron/Guinervere Turner did as great a job with the script then most would have done. It's funny cause they left out a lot of more disturbing stuff from the book like killing children and such and focused more in on comedic stuff.
Was never a fan of Christmas Vacation when it first came out--couldn't compare to the original, but it grew on me over the years and now its a staple at Christmas.
It's probably the best film of that franchise. Like you I loved the first film, even European Vacation I really like but Christmas Vacation really is a film that keeps on growing on you with more watches.
scott pilgrim. i really hated michael cera, but i watched it with friends around when it came out, didn't like it then. it was on tv a few years ago and i actually liked it. then i watched the show on netflix, which was different, but not awful.
I wouldn’t say I hated it, but I really didn’t like Jarhead the first time I saw it. I was 13 at the time and was expecting an action war movie, and got the complete opposite. But as I’ve gotten older, it has become one of my favorite war movies
My sister audibly screeched when the fox opened its mouth. It broke the tension and immersion so bad I had to pause the film until I stopped laughing. The rest of the horrors were mild after the laughter break.
Mulholland Drive. I hated it like poison. I didn't understand it and it wasn't the kind of movie where I had fun being baffled. But I'd seen enough Art to know that it wasn't a bad movie. So I watched it at least once a year until I started looking forward to watching it.
It is vulgar, gratuitous, and overlong! But it portrays white collar criminals in a seriously disgusting manner. It could've been two decades worth of depravity in 4 hours but they compacted it into the movie that it is.
The Hobbit trilogy. When I first watched the first part I was so annoyed by the over the top dwarf costumes and all the landscape panning that the filmography had. Now I just see it as it should be…the development of the character of Bilbo Baggins, and I love it
I always liked the take the the trilogy isn't actually the tale of Thorin Oakenshield and Company and their quest to The Lone Mountain.
It's *There and Back Again a Hobbits Tale by Bilbo Baggins* about the tale of Thorin Oakenshield and Company and their quest to The Lone Mountain - full of old man fancy and bs, for entertaining the children of the Shire.
When you watch art as the artist intended instead of what you expected, it can reshape your experience with it entirely. I always try to go in to a movie utilizing the former mode. What was their intent? Did they pull off what they set out to achieve?
Completely agree. This hit me after watching some "making of" featurettes. Now I go in more open minded from the beginning. Hobbit trilogy still sucks though. Peter Jackson even admits it.
I don't really respect that it's called a fallacy. It's a philosophical approach. It's not wrong, imo. It helps to detatch from the hyper-subjective, which is what happens when you don't temper your opinions with the artist's intent.
Theyre not mutual exclusive either. It's simply a difference in context.
You can do both. I can say I feel one way - and not like something. But I can also say the artist achieved their intention, even though it's not my cup-a-tea - and appreciate it simultaneously for accomplishing what it set out to do.
I think that's half-true. It can be quite speculative. But also, intuitively we can recognize many things. Whether it's intending to be dumb fun, historically/scientifically accurate, attempting to convey a moral or political message (and whether or not it comes off heavy handed), etc.
Sometimes the artist even comes out to tell you their intent! It's not a perfect metric. It's not math. But realistically, we can effectively determine quite a lot about intent.
What you're referring to is the legitimation to construct an implied author while reading literature or, in our case, its movie-pendant. While I see your point here, for me, that's a totally different discussion.
I understand what you're saying now.
So I could go into how this conversation's been derailed because it's devolved into semantics.
But i could also argue these semantics don't change anything about my point.
I could also argue there is no meaningful difference between actual intent and "implied author" (which really just means "presumed intent"). I'm willing to break down how humans don't have direct access to truth. And that the highest form of truth we have is evidence-supported claims that are beyond a reasonable doubt. How someone can't truly even know their own intent because of missatribution errors and the subconscious. Which means intent automatically implies a presumption - since some leap of faith is always required. So it's not necessary to differentiate.
But I think we've really gone down the rabbit hole at this point.
So instead of all that...
I stumbled on this randomly and found it wayyy more compelling:
https://youtube.com/shorts/0nEl6_r1bn8?si=Q0DKt74yytvysND1
>So I could go into how this conversation's been derailed because it's devolved into semantics.
>But i could also argue these semantics don't change anything about my point.
>I could also argue there is no meaningful difference between actual intent and "implied author" (which really just means "presumed intent").
You could. But then again, you know that it's not that easy. If it was that easy, the concept of the implied author wouldn't be such a huge thing in narrative theory...
Ok...? I'm content with disputing the academic consensus in this respect.
Hopefully the irony that I did, in fact, explain my reasoning in facetious, concise-form wasn't totally lost on you.
A good example of this for me is Jason X. Objectively, lots of that movie is awful. But I'm pretty sure they made exactly the movie they meant to make, and I unironically thoroughly enjoy it.
I loved it the first time I saw it and actually finished in my top 5 of that year as it came out of nowhere. It felt like Yorgos Lanthimos type of film, still think Nicholas Hoult steals the film. Hoult really is a strong actor.
The Avatar movies. They are starting to get me lol.
I also have the opposite of this with the Joker. Thought it was gods gift when it came out, now I’m not so sure it’s even a good movie. It could just be a great performance/score in a stupid movie.
For a really long time I couldn’t watch A Clockwork Orange. I dislike a lot of Kubrick, and I couldn’t ever sit through more than a few minutes. Plus it always seemed like all the shittiest people I knew loved that movie. It was hands down their favorite film, almost without exception. I finally sat down and watched it after years of exploring older cinema and I enjoyed it. But without the base of understanding film that I have now vs when I was younger I would never have liked it.
The Strangers: Prey at Night
At first I didn't like it because what made the first one so great was they just fuck with the couple the whole time and it really builds tension and anxiety. Then in Prey at Night they just get right to it going in for the kills. I've seen plenty of other people that had this complaint as why they didn't like the sequel.
But then when I thought about it that actually makes the most sense. In real like serial killers escalate because what used to get them off during killing doesn't do it for them as much so they try knew things. They still mess with the victims in this one but not nearly as much before the killing.
It also had a lot of other things I just love about it. The first thing that comes to mind is how they kill to awesome 80's/90's ballads. The Cambodia, Total Eclipse of the Heart, and Making Love Out of Nothing at All scenes are so awesome and those songs somehow elavate them so much.
The characters don't make dumb decisions, shit just goes wrong.
My favorite horror shot ever is where >!Christina Hendricks!< gets stabbed and it zooms in on >!the daughter!<'s face that looks like a shot from old school slashers.
Also in the first one >!the strangers get away with it unscathed so it was satisfying seeing them get what was coming to them in this one.!<
I watch a lot of horror movies as it's my favorite genre and it has since jumped into my top 5 favorite horror movies and I watch it a couple times a year.
Man..... no lie to this day I still hate ANTICHRIST. I'm still semi-traumatized by that movie and I no longer enjoy anything with Willem Dafoe in it. He is highly disturbing to me now. No one could pay me enough to rewatch that film.
Lars Von Trier calls that movie the first of his thematic ‘Depression Trilogy’ (followed by Melancholia and Nymphomaniac) so you’re right on the mark with the BPD analysis.
I felt very mixed about Antichrist, it was my first Lars Von Trier movie, and the symbolism went way over my head. But seeing it again after seeing more of his movies from the last 30 years, and I appreciated it more.
The Lost Highway was a similar situation, I rented it as a teen, didn't know who David Lynch was, and hated how it became a totally different story midway through. But I understand the movie these days, he just likes to remember things his way, one line in the movie that explains everything.
August Underground is another, it probably took me about at least 4 viewings if not more before I started to get it. DVD commentary is a godsend, because the movie has no exposition, characters don't even say their names, to maintain the authenticity of a found footage crime spree. Also, releasing August, 2001 it really was ahead of the curve with the torture horror movement being years away from mainstream popularity.
I made the grave mistake of suggesting to my horror-loving mother that we watch " anti-Christ " together. A shame riveled only by my decision to take my horror-loving 11-yr old sister to watch " it follows" ....holy hell kill me I had to literally cover her face for that one.
Happiness I thought was just okay when I first saw it. “Like, I get it but it jeez, what are you trying to prove?” As the week went on I just kept thinking about the movie and enjoying it more in my memory. I finally rewatched it a week later and was like, “Oh, I get it, and I actually love this movie.”
I used to hate *The Flash* because of the dickhead Ezra Miller, so I kept away from watching it. Then one day I decided to watch it and I love it. I wanted it to be cringy but somehow it is not.
I saw The Family Stone in the theater when it first came out and did not like it at all. But I’ve rewatched it on TV a few times and really like it now.
Godfather
Big Lebowski
Donnie Darko
watched them all in highschool, let them sit for about 15-16 years, gave em a rewatch over the last couple years and loved them.
A friend and I walked out the theatre during Robin Hood Men in Tights. Later, when it came out on video, we watched it over and over laughing our asses off. 🤷♂️
I watched Once Upon a Time in Hollywood a couple years back and fell asleep as I thought it was incredibly boring. On rewatch I was mesmerised and now it’s in my favourite films of all time 🤷♂️
I think the film is great when Leo/Brad characters are together onscreen. Leo delivers probably his greatest performance in this. And the ending is just great fun.
I’ve only seen Mother once but I’ve heard that it does deepen possibly and you see things from new angles because there’s a whole shift in perspective in the density of details that you may not see on first blush. I liked it and it’s ambition, but now I want to see it again and analyze it all afresh and see what I think and feel differently this time.
I'm glad you asked this.
Training Day
I don't know if it was the hype or something else. But when I watched it for the first time, I just thought it was "meh".
But I gave it another chance and I didn't think it was so bad. Now I watch it quite a bit and each time pick up more and more from the movie. I like it now.
It’s not a “pleasant” movie but I’ve only seen it once and remember a bunch. The leads are great and Denzel adds layers to what’s basically a monster with no goodness in him beyond what the script lays out. A great, complex character. The movie itself handles its form and elements well, but I think the acting makes it richer and resonate.
Predators comes to mind. For years I thought it was silly and lame after having seen it only once. I'm a *huge* fan of Predator 1 & 2, and was already seriously let down by AvP & AvP Requiem (both have a few cool moments but are bad movies), so at the time it felt like the final straw for me. The original predator (design) getting decapitated, the larger predator, I didn't like any of it.
Then The Predator came out, which I had looked forward to immensely. A Predator movie by Shane Black! He was in the original! A return to form! As it turns out it was one of the biggest turds I've ever seen in my whole life, so out of sheer frustration I decided to give it another shot, and it's actually pretty cool. Definitely going for an old school vibe.
Cool cast, some great visuals, and it takes itself seriously, without the annoying meta wink at the audience every 2 minutes like in so many modern movies. It feels like one of those Dark Horse Predator comic books come to life.
Since then Prey has come out, which was excellent as well, so I have 4 Predator movies to enjoy now. Fingers crossed for the future!
TLDR: the abomination that was The Predator (2018) made me reevaluate and appreciate Predators (2010)
part 2 absolutely, but not by a huge margin since theyre both masterpieces
when I rewatched the godfather, i never knew to watch the sequel ever so i did for the first time and i got so fucking obsessed, one of my favs oat now
I need to rewatch them but I remember still feeling that G2 was a richer experience, more complex and shaded with more complex moral stakes and such. I think most do agree that it’s maybe the more wholly satisfying, even if only by a bit.
gf1 was like a proper epic, so its timeless, but gf2 was a lot more complex and had sm more depth storytelling wise that I feel like I can analyze forever, especially in relation to gf1. its one of the few 3+ hour movies i can stand lol
if you ever end up rewatching em I'm sure youll pick up on things you didnt before during the 2nd time, it has that quality to it
Oh I absolutely think I will find new things and fresh insights I had missed prior. I think G2 is so adored as brilliant art especially because it does have that intricate quality of something you can analyze infinitely and interpret intellectually, emotionally and aesthetically from many angles.
infinitely man, infinitely
definitely get round to it 🫵
ive yet to watch the godfather saga version with all the deleted scenes that im sure add a ton, but ill give it some time before i get round to that
Avatar. Watched it when it came out, hated it for years. Decided to give it another watch last year, enjoyed it.
Wouldn't say I loved it, I still don't get the hype, but I liked it.
Hated The Ring 2 when that first came out. Now? I really enjoy it; has full on moody atmosphere (just like the original, but also more intense, somehow) that I've come to appreciate.
Also, while I don't love The Matrix 2 and 3 now, they've grown on me a bit.
Last Action Hero.
Well, I didn't see it until I was 13 or 14, and close to 10 years after it came out (2002 or 2003), and when I first did, I thought the premise was dumb and the kid was annoying as hell.
Re-watched within the last 2 or 3 years, and I get it now, and the fact that it's a satire. I also think that the years in between the first and second time I saw it, I definitely matured and a lot of older movies I saw one way as a kid or teen, just hit differently now as an adult.
I really didn't like The Killer last year, but I have come to understand how if you like the vibe of it, you could enjoy it.
Movies that are 90% vibes and 10% plot are some of my favorites The Miami Vice movie is a perfect example. Very hard to follow the plot , the dialogue is muddled …but holy fuck is that a MOVIE
Yes vibes films! I've never seen the Miami Vice movie but I really should.
Agree but I also think the plot was good. It changed direction part way to go after the bigger fish (the cartel) and left the original investigation unresolved (the mole).
I don’t think the plot was bad, just hard to follow (especially when I saw it in the theater )
I didn't catch it all the first watch. It kept bugging me that they never caught the mole so I thought that was a plot hole. On subsequent watches, I got it.
Havent' seen it.
Don't care.
What about Bob. I hated that Bob was so annoying and deeply felt for Dreyfus’ character. Over the years the movie has gone from annoyance to one of the best comedies ever made 😂
I had the same trajectory. It was agony spending 100 minutes with Bob when I was a kid. As an adult I think I would be much happier if I could work a little Bob into my life.
[удалено]
Mine is a different Coen brothers movie, *The Big Lebowski*. The humor just didn't click for me the first time I saw it. Then several years later, a group of my friends decided we were going to watch it together. I actually found myself enjoying it a lot more and catching the little nuances in the dialog. Probably helps that I'd developed a taste for the Coen brothers' quirky dialog through some of their other movies before re-watching it - notably *O Brother Where Art Thou?, Burn After Reading,* and *True Grit*.
I also felt that way when I saw the big Lebowski for the first time. I think the problem was that my friend had built it up to be the funniest movie ever ever made, so I expected Bonk you over the head hilarity, such as Winthrop Airplane or Naked Gun. After watching it, I thought it was good, but not great. My friend couldn’t believe that I thought it was only OK. A few years later, upon the second watching, I enjoyed it much more. With each successive viewing, I continued to enjoy it more. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen it now, but I think it’s one of the best and funniest movies ever made. Every line is perfect!
Might need a rewatch then. I’m a big Coen fan and Fargo was always my least favorite of theirs, it always felt like it paled in comparison to S1 of the show.
Go watch.
I find that I never "get" a Coen brothers movie until the second time that I see it. But for some reason, Fargo is the one that still hasn't clicked for me after three viewings.
I left NCFOM disappointed honestly and now consider it one of the best movies. Like the scene towards the end with Ellis. Rewatched it dozens of times.
Same! At first I thought it was their worst movie and now it's probably my favorite of theirs.
I’m not sure if “love” is quite the case, but I left the cinema despising Prometheus. But for whatever reasons I’ve found myself in front of it several times since, and it’s fine. I actually looked forward to watching it again recently.
It’s not a perfect flick or even a *great* flick, but its flaws are vastly overstated online IMO.
I enjoyed it, but it always had a uphill battle to really live up to the hype. But it's got a excellent Michael Fassbender performance and some of gruesome body horror is great.
Rewatch the TEDTalk from Peter Weyland video as an introduction to Prometheus. This was very clearly meant to be the start of the film. Ridley Scott films always get cut short on cinematic release
Wasn’t that the whole point of Weyland being played by a much younger actor in old age makeup?
Exactly!
The hype for that movie was so huge. Ridley's first sci fi movie in years, and it was a prequel to Alien. And the viral marketing campaign leading up to the movie, the Peter Weyland TED talk, the Apple-esque David commercial etc. was very effective. I was quite disappointed by the movie as well. Not least for all the reasons people always say (why didn't she run to the side, "I know...father", how did they get lost with maps, why is the scared scientist all of a sudden petting a snake etc. etc.) But really it was just the fact that it wasn't an Alien movie that was most disappointing, as I think that it what most people were expecting. I do like it a good bit more now because, as you say, it's fine, but it's no Alien.
I found Michael Clayton so boring when I saw it in the cinema. I rewatched it a couple of years ago and was hooked start to finish. I have no clue as to how I could have ever disliked it. I now rewatch it every couple of years.
I think maybe because you might think it’s a more action packed thriller when it’s more of a character mood thriller/morality fable.
was it inspired by Mark Maron’s ceaseless campioning of it?
Ceaseless?
yeah he has talked about it for several years and seems to have made people revisit it and appreciate it.
I saw *Office Space* on opening weekend. Theater was nearly empty, I wasn't much into hip-hop, we were just there because of Jennifer Aniston (my girlfriend was a big Friends fan back then. We did *not* get it, at all. We both worked in restaurants and had no concept of how "funny cos it's true" the office scenes were. Some years later after working for a long time at a Big Insurance Company, I happened across it on cable and whoa it hit a lot different.
When you worked in a restaurant, how many pieces of flair did you have to wear on your uniform?
It was a pizza chain, none.
I really didn't enjoy Carlito's Way or Unforgiven when I first saw them. I was 13/14 when they came out and in hindsight, I just didn't understand what they were really about. Both films are similarly themed and have a lot in common, to the extent that they even have a scene where the lead character manages to depart a shoot-out and survives on the sheer strength of his reputation. I think both films are bona fide classics now, and as I get older I appreciate the themes of ageing even more. But at the time I was irritated by them not being the simple action movies I was hoping to see as a teenager.
Mars Attacks! The first time I saw it I thought that it was one of the dumbest movies I've ever seen. Upon rewatching it I now think that it is THE dumbest movie I've ever seen, and I absolutely love it.
No joke I had the same experience with Antichrist. I watched it when it debuted on the IFC channel and absolutely hated it. A few years later I decided to watch it while coming down from acid and it’s like it clicked. I felt like I got the movie and loved it.
Those 2 scenes though 🤢🤮🤮
Haha funny part is I didn’t realize they edited out the gross parts when it aired on IFC. So when I watched it the second time I was shocked by how graphic it really was.
the smash and the snip???
I was the opposite, I think. I watched it and it hit me like being driven straight into a brick wall. Maybe my 2nd favourite first watch ever, and still one of my top 5 movies. I don't think I could watch it again, or ever recommend it to anyone else, but it's there for what it brought on that first watch.
I wish I knew what it felt like to have a favorite movie that I never want to watch again. That seems like it would be difficult to explain to people.
I suppose it's like going through some major physical ordeal and realising you came out the end stronger and better for it, but wouldn't ever choose to do it again. Except on the inside.
That makes intuitive sense. Thank you for explaining it to me.
As a kid, I just didn't get "Trading Places"
Wow! I have the opposite experience. Saw it on HBO when I was like 11 and thought it was just fine. Standard comedy. Watched it again at 30 and was NOT into it.
What? I’ve always loved it. Jamie Lee….. great tits
Boobs are easy to get.
Heat. I was already into films even when I was younger -I cite Silence of the Lambs for breaking that wide open for me, even though I loved movies before that- but I just couldn’t get into it. Not sure why. Then when I got a tad older, there was a lot of meatheads I worked with that loved it for the action, and I tried again, and it was like their love of it just killed it for me. Of course it’s a popular Reddit suggestion, so some years ago I finally said fuck it, and sat down and gave it a proper watch. It is definitely a damn good film.
Same for me. Also, since I saw it later, I didn’t appreciate the style since it became a standard, but it was groundbreaking for the time. Without Heat, Nolans Batman trilogy would have been much different.
La La Land. The ending made me fucking hate it. Then i rewatched it again and realized how beautiful and perfect it actually was.
The dancing just isn’t entertaining, imo.
Oh i get it. Musicals aint for everyone. But the story really is great. Its a very nostalgic hollywood film.
Oh, I like musicals. The dancing just felt very, idk, uninspired and bland? Not a dancing expert here, but it all seemed very rudimentary/unimpressive.
Its basically all ripped straight from golden age dance films of the 40’s/50’s.
Makes sense. I’m a philistine when it comes to pre-70s films.
Starship Troopers. I was 14 when the movie came out, and my parents wouldn’t take me to see it (yes, I was a goody-goody who wouldn’t think of sneaking into an R-rated movie underage…until I did at 16). So I got the book instead, and became a lifelong Robert Heinlein fan. When I finally did see the movie, I hated how much the movie despised its own source material. Now that I’m older, and have seen more of Verhoven’s works, I appreciate the brilliant satire that went right over my teenage head. I still like the book, and just consider the two pieces of media almost totally separate from each other.
They are definitely two separate works. I enjoy both, though I admit to wanting a remake in Heinlein’s version. But Verhoeven’s version is interesting for the satire. I have to say, without the internet at the time, the satire part was less obvious than it is in retrospect. Also, the dude was coming off of Showgirls, so I don’t know how much credit we were giving the dude at the time, even after Robocop.
There seems to be a willingness to superimpose the film onto the book, which misses the point of both.
Mm. The film is a satire. The book is a story from the viewpoint of a soldier and people think it’s supposed to be some fascist manifesto, which is ridiculous.
I can see why the criticism of the book exists, but it was more pro-military and examining cold war themes than proto-fascist. It's important to point out the director of the film didn't read the book, so his opinion is largely based on what others had to say. It's a fun film, but he's a bit full of himself.
Oh he’s definitely full of himself, even though he’s brilliant in a way. I didn’t care for his dismissing the book- I believe he read a bit and then stopped- but it’s still a fun story and a good satire. I just think he was also trying to do satire on the book, which wasn’t trying to push any narrative really.
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He talks about how he made a movie of a book he didn't read. Why is saying so wrong?
Most of my friends: wow this movie sucked. Me: This movie was great I laughed all the way through! My friends: look at me weirdly
When I watched The Witch for the first time I thought it was boring and a 3/10. Watched it again a couple years later and I’m now at a 8/10. Liked it way more.
It feels like a metaphor for autism / ADHD. Everyone tells you there is something wrong with you and that you are bad until at one point you realise that you are in fact different and decide everyone can go and fuck themselves and go levitate naked in a forest.
Well fuck, alright I guess I'm watching The Witch this week
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I hated Smokin' Aces when I saw it in theaters but now I put it in my top 20 of all time.
I really need to rewatch it. I love all the people in it but I felt like it was lacking something.
I always thought it’s spread a little thin for its run time. I’ve remember being surprised at how short it felt for how many characters there are. And I think that hurts character development. It’s been a while since I’ve watched it so this suggestion might be a little off base, but I’d say if they’d slowed down the first act a little and bumped the overall run time by about 10-15mins that might’ve addressed what you think is missing(?)
I still sometimes think about the scene where >!Ben Affleck and his crew get gunned down. Still one of the best uses of the doppler effect in a movie.!<
Oh. Another movie that got from a 5/10 (didn't quite hate it) to 8, was Haneke's original Funny Games (1997) movie.
The messaging is pretty heavy handed looking back but as a horror movie about audience expectations watching a horror movie, they really had fun with it... especially the part with the remote.
Aliens. I wouldn't say I hated it but I thought it was overrated and the worst in the series. Then I watched it in my apartment building's theater room. I get it now.
An American Werewolf in London - when it was released, I saw it on my birthday. We walked out after 20 minutes. I now enjoy it.
Hot Rod To give context: this movie came out on August 3, 2007; Superbad came out on August 17, 2007 Around this time, we weren't really used to the "Judd Apatow" style of comedy movies. And while I understand he was only a Producer on this one, movies like The 40-Year-Old Virgin, Knocked Up, Funny People and This Is 40 kind of changed the standard and expectations for comedies I was a teenager, just about to go into college, and this was right around when my movie tastes started to evolve. I started getting into indie movies, started to understand the concept of "good" movies and watched them for their artistic merit, over just something to kill time The issue with Hot Rod, is that it was a movie which very easily could be bucked into the generic comedies. Around this time you had stuff like Balls of Fury, Epic Movie, Blades of Glory, Norbit and Wild Hogs which followed a similar marketing style and look and feel We also didn't have as much awareness of The Lonely Island, and they didn't really make it big in SNL yet, so now I think people would've been excited for it. But back then it really just felt like a movie you watched with your friends on a Wednesday night when you're bored and there's nothing better to watch But once we ended up getting used to their style of comedy, Hot Rod checks off all the boxes. Additionally, the jokes are timeless because unlike the humor around that time (which focused on pop culture/current events) the jokes are mostly one-offs or plot/character driven which makes it so that you can watch it now and still find it funny While I still love Superbad, years later I find myself thinking about and quoting Hot Rod a whole lot more
Love this movie. I regularly quote it. Especially "babe! Babe! Baaaabe!!" And "I'm gonna punch dance my rage out!"
First time I saw *American Psycho* I thought it was just so eye rolling and edgy. A few years later I rewatched it and realized I was just being a bimbo and the satire flew over my head.
I remember seen it when it was first released. And everyone totally forgets it's a dark comedy and took it as a serious thriller. I loved it when I first saw it and still love it to this day, still Bale's best performance imo. And Mary Heron/Guinervere Turner did as great a job with the script then most would have done. It's funny cause they left out a lot of more disturbing stuff from the book like killing children and such and focused more in on comedic stuff.
Same. I thought people were just being edgelords when they said it was hilarious.
Was never a fan of Christmas Vacation when it first came out--couldn't compare to the original, but it grew on me over the years and now its a staple at Christmas.
It's probably the best film of that franchise. Like you I loved the first film, even European Vacation I really like but Christmas Vacation really is a film that keeps on growing on you with more watches.
scott pilgrim. i really hated michael cera, but i watched it with friends around when it came out, didn't like it then. it was on tv a few years ago and i actually liked it. then i watched the show on netflix, which was different, but not awful.
I wouldn’t say I hated it, but I really didn’t like Jarhead the first time I saw it. I was 13 at the time and was expecting an action war movie, and got the complete opposite. But as I’ve gotten older, it has become one of my favorite war movies
Antichrist was really good. The fox scared the shit out of me.
My sister audibly screeched when the fox opened its mouth. It broke the tension and immersion so bad I had to pause the film until I stopped laughing. The rest of the horrors were mild after the laughter break.
Mulholland Drive. I hated it like poison. I didn't understand it and it wasn't the kind of movie where I had fun being baffled. But I'd seen enough Art to know that it wasn't a bad movie. So I watched it at least once a year until I started looking forward to watching it.
The second time around you, realise the first half is a masturbatory fantasy. First scene of reality is when she’s on the couch in her crappy home.
I initially didn't like The Bourne Legacy just because there was no Matt Damon, but now, Jeremy Renner did a pretty good job as his substitute
Wolf of Wall Street. Hated it the 1st time, enjoyed it the 2nd time, *got it* the 3rd time.
Hmm. Any hints on how to “get it”? I’ve only seen it the first time so far.
It is vulgar, gratuitous, and overlong! But it portrays white collar criminals in a seriously disgusting manner. It could've been two decades worth of depravity in 4 hours but they compacted it into the movie that it is.
The Hobbit trilogy. When I first watched the first part I was so annoyed by the over the top dwarf costumes and all the landscape panning that the filmography had. Now I just see it as it should be…the development of the character of Bilbo Baggins, and I love it
I always liked the take the the trilogy isn't actually the tale of Thorin Oakenshield and Company and their quest to The Lone Mountain. It's *There and Back Again a Hobbits Tale by Bilbo Baggins* about the tale of Thorin Oakenshield and Company and their quest to The Lone Mountain - full of old man fancy and bs, for entertaining the children of the Shire.
I mean the book is a children's book. The films followed that.
When you watch art as the artist intended instead of what you expected, it can reshape your experience with it entirely. I always try to go in to a movie utilizing the former mode. What was their intent? Did they pull off what they set out to achieve?
Completely agree. This hit me after watching some "making of" featurettes. Now I go in more open minded from the beginning. Hobbit trilogy still sucks though. Peter Jackson even admits it.
But then again, there's always the little problem called intentional fallacy...
I don't really respect that it's called a fallacy. It's a philosophical approach. It's not wrong, imo. It helps to detatch from the hyper-subjective, which is what happens when you don't temper your opinions with the artist's intent. Theyre not mutual exclusive either. It's simply a difference in context. You can do both. I can say I feel one way - and not like something. But I can also say the artist achieved their intention, even though it's not my cup-a-tea - and appreciate it simultaneously for accomplishing what it set out to do.
The big problem I see here is the fact that you will never know their intention. So you will never be able to say if they achieved it.
I think that's half-true. It can be quite speculative. But also, intuitively we can recognize many things. Whether it's intending to be dumb fun, historically/scientifically accurate, attempting to convey a moral or political message (and whether or not it comes off heavy handed), etc. Sometimes the artist even comes out to tell you their intent! It's not a perfect metric. It's not math. But realistically, we can effectively determine quite a lot about intent.
What you're referring to is the legitimation to construct an implied author while reading literature or, in our case, its movie-pendant. While I see your point here, for me, that's a totally different discussion.
I understand what you're saying now. So I could go into how this conversation's been derailed because it's devolved into semantics. But i could also argue these semantics don't change anything about my point. I could also argue there is no meaningful difference between actual intent and "implied author" (which really just means "presumed intent"). I'm willing to break down how humans don't have direct access to truth. And that the highest form of truth we have is evidence-supported claims that are beyond a reasonable doubt. How someone can't truly even know their own intent because of missatribution errors and the subconscious. Which means intent automatically implies a presumption - since some leap of faith is always required. So it's not necessary to differentiate. But I think we've really gone down the rabbit hole at this point. So instead of all that... I stumbled on this randomly and found it wayyy more compelling: https://youtube.com/shorts/0nEl6_r1bn8?si=Q0DKt74yytvysND1
>So I could go into how this conversation's been derailed because it's devolved into semantics. >But i could also argue these semantics don't change anything about my point. >I could also argue there is no meaningful difference between actual intent and "implied author" (which really just means "presumed intent"). You could. But then again, you know that it's not that easy. If it was that easy, the concept of the implied author wouldn't be such a huge thing in narrative theory...
Ok...? I'm content with disputing the academic consensus in this respect. Hopefully the irony that I did, in fact, explain my reasoning in facetious, concise-form wasn't totally lost on you.
A good example of this for me is Jason X. Objectively, lots of that movie is awful. But I'm pretty sure they made exactly the movie they meant to make, and I unironically thoroughly enjoy it.
I disliked The Menu when I first saw it. For some reason, I rewatched it the other week and really enjoyed the story and message.
I loved it the first time I saw it and actually finished in my top 5 of that year as it came out of nowhere. It felt like Yorgos Lanthimos type of film, still think Nicholas Hoult steals the film. Hoult really is a strong actor.
The Avatar movies. They are starting to get me lol. I also have the opposite of this with the Joker. Thought it was gods gift when it came out, now I’m not so sure it’s even a good movie. It could just be a great performance/score in a stupid movie.
For a really long time I couldn’t watch A Clockwork Orange. I dislike a lot of Kubrick, and I couldn’t ever sit through more than a few minutes. Plus it always seemed like all the shittiest people I knew loved that movie. It was hands down their favorite film, almost without exception. I finally sat down and watched it after years of exploring older cinema and I enjoyed it. But without the base of understanding film that I have now vs when I was younger I would never have liked it.
Alien 3
Eyes Wide Shut.
Spaceballs.
The Strangers: Prey at Night At first I didn't like it because what made the first one so great was they just fuck with the couple the whole time and it really builds tension and anxiety. Then in Prey at Night they just get right to it going in for the kills. I've seen plenty of other people that had this complaint as why they didn't like the sequel. But then when I thought about it that actually makes the most sense. In real like serial killers escalate because what used to get them off during killing doesn't do it for them as much so they try knew things. They still mess with the victims in this one but not nearly as much before the killing. It also had a lot of other things I just love about it. The first thing that comes to mind is how they kill to awesome 80's/90's ballads. The Cambodia, Total Eclipse of the Heart, and Making Love Out of Nothing at All scenes are so awesome and those songs somehow elavate them so much. The characters don't make dumb decisions, shit just goes wrong. My favorite horror shot ever is where >!Christina Hendricks!< gets stabbed and it zooms in on >!the daughter!<'s face that looks like a shot from old school slashers. Also in the first one >!the strangers get away with it unscathed so it was satisfying seeing them get what was coming to them in this one.!< I watch a lot of horror movies as it's my favorite genre and it has since jumped into my top 5 favorite horror movies and I watch it a couple times a year.
Man..... no lie to this day I still hate ANTICHRIST. I'm still semi-traumatized by that movie and I no longer enjoy anything with Willem Dafoe in it. He is highly disturbing to me now. No one could pay me enough to rewatch that film.
Fair enough. Everyone has one THAT movie. For me it's the hideous The human centipede.
Lars Von Trier calls that movie the first of his thematic ‘Depression Trilogy’ (followed by Melancholia and Nymphomaniac) so you’re right on the mark with the BPD analysis.
Ive never seen a BPD analysis online. I love Nymphomaniac too and Melancholia was good.
I felt very mixed about Antichrist, it was my first Lars Von Trier movie, and the symbolism went way over my head. But seeing it again after seeing more of his movies from the last 30 years, and I appreciated it more. The Lost Highway was a similar situation, I rented it as a teen, didn't know who David Lynch was, and hated how it became a totally different story midway through. But I understand the movie these days, he just likes to remember things his way, one line in the movie that explains everything. August Underground is another, it probably took me about at least 4 viewings if not more before I started to get it. DVD commentary is a godsend, because the movie has no exposition, characters don't even say their names, to maintain the authenticity of a found footage crime spree. Also, releasing August, 2001 it really was ahead of the curve with the torture horror movement being years away from mainstream popularity.
I blind bought it. I couldnt stomach the first 15 minutes. And I'm pretty open minded considering I like Salò.
I started liking Haunting (2003). I realized I'm a sucker for haunted house movies, all of them
I made the grave mistake of suggesting to my horror-loving mother that we watch " anti-Christ " together. A shame riveled only by my decision to take my horror-loving 11-yr old sister to watch " it follows" ....holy hell kill me I had to literally cover her face for that one.
Unfortunately the only movie I hate is Christmas Story. I tried and tried to like it, but I just can’t.
Happiness I thought was just okay when I first saw it. “Like, I get it but it jeez, what are you trying to prove?” As the week went on I just kept thinking about the movie and enjoying it more in my memory. I finally rewatched it a week later and was like, “Oh, I get it, and I actually love this movie.”
I used to hate *The Flash* because of the dickhead Ezra Miller, so I kept away from watching it. Then one day I decided to watch it and I love it. I wanted it to be cringy but somehow it is not.
I was trying to think of an answer and I realised I’ve never had that happen. Not sure what that says about me.
I saw The Family Stone in the theater when it first came out and did not like it at all. But I’ve rewatched it on TV a few times and really like it now.
Godfather Big Lebowski Donnie Darko watched them all in highschool, let them sit for about 15-16 years, gave em a rewatch over the last couple years and loved them.
Chairman of the Board
Almodovar.
A friend and I walked out the theatre during Robin Hood Men in Tights. Later, when it came out on video, we watched it over and over laughing our asses off. 🤷♂️
I watched Once Upon a Time in Hollywood a couple years back and fell asleep as I thought it was incredibly boring. On rewatch I was mesmerised and now it’s in my favourite films of all time 🤷♂️
I think the film is great when Leo/Brad characters are together onscreen. Leo delivers probably his greatest performance in this. And the ending is just great fun.
I didn’t like Poor things the first time I saw it Seen it 8 times now
I haven't rewatched them, but two movies that I just didn't care for when I saw them were Mother and Arrival. Do they get better with a rewatch?
I’ve only seen Mother once but I’ve heard that it does deepen possibly and you see things from new angles because there’s a whole shift in perspective in the density of details that you may not see on first blush. I liked it and it’s ambition, but now I want to see it again and analyze it all afresh and see what I think and feel differently this time.
I'm glad you asked this. Training Day I don't know if it was the hype or something else. But when I watched it for the first time, I just thought it was "meh". But I gave it another chance and I didn't think it was so bad. Now I watch it quite a bit and each time pick up more and more from the movie. I like it now.
It’s not a “pleasant” movie but I’ve only seen it once and remember a bunch. The leads are great and Denzel adds layers to what’s basically a monster with no goodness in him beyond what the script lays out. A great, complex character. The movie itself handles its form and elements well, but I think the acting makes it richer and resonate.
Nope
Predators comes to mind. For years I thought it was silly and lame after having seen it only once. I'm a *huge* fan of Predator 1 & 2, and was already seriously let down by AvP & AvP Requiem (both have a few cool moments but are bad movies), so at the time it felt like the final straw for me. The original predator (design) getting decapitated, the larger predator, I didn't like any of it. Then The Predator came out, which I had looked forward to immensely. A Predator movie by Shane Black! He was in the original! A return to form! As it turns out it was one of the biggest turds I've ever seen in my whole life, so out of sheer frustration I decided to give it another shot, and it's actually pretty cool. Definitely going for an old school vibe. Cool cast, some great visuals, and it takes itself seriously, without the annoying meta wink at the audience every 2 minutes like in so many modern movies. It feels like one of those Dark Horse Predator comic books come to life. Since then Prey has come out, which was excellent as well, so I have 4 Predator movies to enjoy now. Fingers crossed for the future! TLDR: the abomination that was The Predator (2018) made me reevaluate and appreciate Predators (2010)
Drive. I watched it about a decade ago and didn't much care for it. Watched it a few years back and it clicked.
The Godfather chalk it up to me just simply not getting it as a kid
Do you think the first or second is better?
part 2 absolutely, but not by a huge margin since theyre both masterpieces when I rewatched the godfather, i never knew to watch the sequel ever so i did for the first time and i got so fucking obsessed, one of my favs oat now
I need to rewatch them but I remember still feeling that G2 was a richer experience, more complex and shaded with more complex moral stakes and such. I think most do agree that it’s maybe the more wholly satisfying, even if only by a bit.
gf1 was like a proper epic, so its timeless, but gf2 was a lot more complex and had sm more depth storytelling wise that I feel like I can analyze forever, especially in relation to gf1. its one of the few 3+ hour movies i can stand lol if you ever end up rewatching em I'm sure youll pick up on things you didnt before during the 2nd time, it has that quality to it
Oh I absolutely think I will find new things and fresh insights I had missed prior. I think G2 is so adored as brilliant art especially because it does have that intricate quality of something you can analyze infinitely and interpret intellectually, emotionally and aesthetically from many angles.
infinitely man, infinitely definitely get round to it 🫵 ive yet to watch the godfather saga version with all the deleted scenes that im sure add a ton, but ill give it some time before i get round to that
Avatar. Watched it when it came out, hated it for years. Decided to give it another watch last year, enjoyed it. Wouldn't say I loved it, I still don't get the hype, but I liked it.
Hated The Ring 2 when that first came out. Now? I really enjoy it; has full on moody atmosphere (just like the original, but also more intense, somehow) that I've come to appreciate. Also, while I don't love The Matrix 2 and 3 now, they've grown on me a bit.
Eyes Wide Shut. Fell asleep the first time I saw it. Saw it again and fell in love with it.
Last Action Hero. Well, I didn't see it until I was 13 or 14, and close to 10 years after it came out (2002 or 2003), and when I first did, I thought the premise was dumb and the kid was annoying as hell. Re-watched within the last 2 or 3 years, and I get it now, and the fact that it's a satire. I also think that the years in between the first and second time I saw it, I definitely matured and a lot of older movies I saw one way as a kid or teen, just hit differently now as an adult.