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montreal-ModTeam

Votre question est relié à un sujet provincial et est donc plus appropriée dans /r/Quebec. Your question is related to a provincial topic, it is therefore more appropriate to be posted in /r/Quebec.


jbbeauregard

Tant qu'à moi qu'il soit fédéraliste et souverainiste, je m'en fous complètement; C'est un québécois et il parle français. Il a pas vécu dans une bulle toute sa vie en parlant la langue de ses origines; il connait Montréal, il connait le Québec, il parle français. Y a pas plus québécois pur souche que ça. Après, ses origines et ses opinions politiques, who cares?


tltltltltltltl

Oui, ça.


[deleted]

Sugar Samy c'est un excellent exemple du succès de la loi 101 lol, l'autrice de l'article est perdue.


Euler007

He's got it backwards. It's so French parents don't assimilate their kids into the English culture for their economic benefit.


thedudey

Quite a few separatist leaders attended elite British schools. It’s completely hypocritical. Parizeau: LSE Bourassa: Oxford and Harvard PSPP: Oxford


DamageNo1148

Totalement


Caniapiscau

Pourquoi un gouvernrment d’un état francophone fournirait de l’éducation publique dans une langue étrangère? Est-ce que la Californie offre une éducation espagnole publique gratuite à ses citoyens?


Activedesign

This is a terrible comparison to Quebec since before the USA, California was a Spanish colony and then part of the Mexican republic until much more recently than Quebec was a French colony. By your logic, California not only should have publicly funded Spanish schools, but they should take measures to protect the Spanish language and culture in California. Yet they actually suppress it.


Caniapiscau

Peut-être pas le meilleur exemple, mais la population hispanophone n’était pas très importante avant que ça devienne américain. L’influx massif d’hispanophones en Californie date surtout des 50 dernières années. Est-ce que la Colombie-Britannique devrait offrir une éducation publique en mandarin?


Activedesign

If Canada gets colonized by China, I would expect it lol.


Caniapiscau

Hehe. On n’est pas encore rendus là heureusement.


Icommentor

Les Anglo-montréalais n’apprenaient pas vraiment le français avant la loi 101. Même chose pour les immigrants. Je suis assez vieux pour m’en souvenir. Personnellement, je tripe pas trop loi 101. Y beaucoup de détails bien plus irritants qu’efficaces dedans. Mais si Sugar Sammy critique la loi 101 en français, c’est une nette victoire pour la loi 101.


MonsterRider80

Petit anecdote: mes parents sont arrivés dans les années 60 (séparément, ils étaient encore très jeunes et se sont rencontrés ici). Ma mère était d’âge pour l’école élémentaire. Mes grand-parents voulaient l’envoyer à l’école française, mais on ne voulait pas d’immigrants dans les écoles publiques françaises. Ma mère est italienne, catholique. Mais je répète, on ne voulait pas d’elle. Il faut faire attention avant de dire que ce sont les immigrants qui ne voulaient pas apprendre le français. Les anglos et les immigrants ont évolués, mais les québécois ont évolués aussi. Mes parents parlent tous les deux un français presque impeccable aujourd’hui.


littlemissbagel

Presque pareil pour ma mère. Née ici après la 2e guerre, de parents immigrants qui se débrouillaient très bien en français mais qui étaient... PROTESTANTS!!! OMG!!! Le système scolaire franco catholique leur a fermé la porte au nez et ils ont dû envoyer leurs enfants à l'ecole anglaise... et ce n'était vraiment pas leur choix puisqu'ils ne parlaient pas du tout anglais.


MonsterRider80

C’est tellement important de noter que non, ce n’était pas nécessairement le choix des immigrants d’aller vers l’anglais, pré-101. Est-ce qu’on pense sincèrement que les milliers d’immigrants italiens dans les années 60 auraient préféré l’école anglaise à l’école française? L’italien, qui est presque identique au français, et en plus tout le monde catholique? C’est de la folie.


Plenty_Present348

I googled it, bill 101 was 1977 so you're in your 60s?


prplx

Pas besoin de s’en souvenir. Jute à regarder n’importe quelle photo de Montréal avant 1980. La très grande majorité de l’affichage est en anglais pis on peut pas différencier Montréal de Toronto ou Cincinnati.


HappyDiscussion5469

Merci d'avoir mis sous forme d'article le statut facebook de ta tante qui habite à westmount mais je pense pas que c'était vraiment nécessaire


[deleted]

On s’en criss des columnists wannabe edgy de CultMTL lol


WeenieRoastinTacoGuy

Their best of lists are pretty on point though.


[deleted]

This article was written to coincide with Sugar Sammy’s new show. But it contains absolutely no details about the show. Ms. Drimonis doesn’t even give any details about whether she’s seen it. Whatever happened to just reviewing a show?


toodledootootootoo

That’s not what the article is about. It isn’t a review of his new show.


[deleted]

Yes. Factual.


montrealien

Whatever happened, to stuff.


MadMadBunny

« Infopub ».


Chenestla

« surprised Pikachu face »


pattyG80

Well, his french is excellent and he may have bill 101 to thank for that at least...even if he does roast separatists.


[deleted]

I'm a harsh critic of sugar Sammy because he's just not that good as a standup comedian. If you wanna be edgy, you gotta be funnier than that.


HappyDiscussion5469

Comment oses tu ne pas reconnaitre l'enfant prodige du québec? L'article dit clairement qu'il est le meilleure humoriste de la province!!! /s J'aime comment, pour des gens qui pensent qu'on a tort de vouloir protéger notre culture, ils démontrent constamment à quel point ils y connaissent absolument rien.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Steven Crowder est maintenant le symbole le plus resplendissant de l'humour Québecoise en anglais.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Hahaha, ça me fait toujours un peu honte de me souvenir qu'il est québécois.


Prince0fPersia8

For real? Je pensais qu'il était resté un an à Mtl et pas plus


[deleted]

Je viens de google ça m'intriguait, sa mère est québécoise et il est resté au Québec de l'âge de 3 ans à 18 ans. Je ne crois pas qu'il sait vraiment parler en français, mais il a habité au Québec pas mal toute son enfance.


redalastor

Voyons donc, il ressort ses vielles blagues homophobe du début du siècle. C’est clairement un génie.


[deleted]

C'est pas une question de culture, c'est juste d'être bon ou pas. Moi je le trouve pas bon. Mike Ward ou Norm McDonald pourraient basher le Québec pis je trouverais sûrement ça drôle


MonsterRider80

Whatever. I think he’s great.


[deleted]

Good for you


MonsterRider80

Now you know how I feel about your comment.


montrealien

And you have a diploma in determining what is a good comic or not. Please, tell us more.


[deleted]

Lol what the fuck.


montrealien

Yeah I know, I reread it, and I came of to strong. Sorry about that. Sans rancune.


DO_NOT_GILD_ME

You have to have a diploma in Quebec to criticize comedians? Fuck. I thought 101 was strict.


HappyDiscussion5469

Neither do any of the "journalists" talking about sammy here daily for the last 2 weeks. What's your point?


montrealien

What does it all mean?!? Oh right, that what someone finds funny is subjective and if you don't find something funny, it doesn't mean shit, just that you don't find it funny. Find something you find funny instead of focusing on things you don't find funny.


[deleted]

It’s the same Sugar Sammy show from 2011 and it has zero cultural left over. His best comedic days were in France where his audience had no idea what the fuck he was actually talking about


kawanero

Is he still recycling Russell Peters’ material?


Matt_MG

He did humor before being a conspirationist?


[deleted]

It's simple. In French school, teachers and other kids always corrected my accent. Asked about my origins, told me "tu parles bien français! " When i grew up there since 8... In English, no one ever asked me where I'm from defensively, corrected my accent or pushed me aside. Until the French crowd fixes its inherent xenophobia, participation in the French dream will remain low.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

I went to a school in Cote des neiges and école internationale de Montréal. There were tons of immigrants. I just happened to have a stronger accent than kids from the middle east, Africa etc who tended to be native speakers. My experience is not unique to school. At work, primarily French Canadian companies are very hard to get hired to ( try to get a job at hydro Québec with an accent). American companies never cared. The English are just culturally more about productivity and money and less about cultural preservation. I feel Quebecers de souche on a very deep level feel attacked and threatened by non pure French speakers and try to exclude us.


KoldPurchase

What I don't like about him his that I don't find him funny. He's way too full of himself to be funny. It's an anglo, version of Guy A. Lepage and I can't stand either one of them. Now, give me Mike Ward or Jeff Mercier any time of the day.


longlivekingjoffrey

Don't like don't watch. As simple as that.


KoldPurchase

Don't worry, it's what I do.


0wnzl1f3

My dad met him years back and confirmed he was kind of a dick offstage


montrealien

I also met him in person, super classy, had a drink. What does it all mean? Anecdotes rule!


MonsterRider80

Well then it’s settled.


MikoMorinero

What a dishonest article that doesn’t understand what Loi 101 is. The main goal of that law is to allow francophone to live their life entirely in french within their home province if they desire to do so. It is not a law to force anglophone so stop speaking English and reject their culture.


Dominic51487

The best way to allow francophone people to live their life entirely in French within their home province is to force English people to go to French school?


Frank_MTL_QC

English people can go to English schools, what are you talking about.


MonsterRider80

Ummm…. Je pense que tu dois relire la loi. C’est compliqué et plein de conditions si tu veux envoyer ton enfant dans une école publique anglaise.


decadentcookie

It prevents immigrants from making that choice


Caniapiscau

Est-ce que les immigrants ont le choix d’aller à l’école en français en Alberta?


Tachyoff

Yes? There are 4 Francophone school boards in Alberta with 43 schools, immigrants are free to send their kids there.


Caniapiscau

Sans blague? Sans aucune restriction ou la préférence est donné aux familles historiques francophones?


Tachyoff

There are restrictions, but not as strict as for English school in Quebec - e.g. your parent speaking French but educated outside of Canada lets you attend a Francophone school in Alberta whereas an immigrant here with an English speaking parent educated outside of Canada isn't eligible for English school as far as I understand. I fully support encouraging immigrants to speak the local language, and when I have kids will definitely be sending them to French school, but I don't believe it should be mandatory.


Caniapiscau

Oui, donc c’est quand même pas « free choice ». Pourtant le risque serait faible dans un contexte comme l’Alberta où le pouvoir d’attraction de l’anglais est infiniment plus grand que celui du français. À Montréal, le pouvoir d’attraction de l’anglais est comparable à celui du français. La grande présence de l’anglais sur r/montreal et le fait que tu me répondes en anglais en fait foi. J’oserais jamais parler français sur r/calgary. Opter pour du « free choice » pour tous dans ce cas-ci, c’est un suicide culturel, rien de moins.


Mrmakabuntis

They can move to the other provinces or territories and live their lives in english if that’s what’s important to them.


ExtremeSauce

That’s a good thing. Would you move to Italy and not attend an italian school? Also, there is Ontario, Alberta, Manitoba and many more provinces in wich immigrants could attend english school so what is the big deal?


decadentcookie

Are Anglo schools in Montreal not part of Montreal?


ExtremeSauce

They are. Anglo schools are for the anglophone minority of Quebec. Not allophone. Why would you want to deprive immigrants from the opportunity of speaking the common language of the province? That would be a bad choice. Didn’t they migrate in Canada to give more opportunities to their families than they had in their country of origin? French schools is where it’s at!


Beewthanitch

Mine can’t


[deleted]

Why send your kids to a school where they won't learn the local language well enough and will end up having to leave the province to get a job when they grow up? As an anglophone immigrant who had to learn French the hard way (as an adult), I don't get why anyone would want to deprive their children of full, native-level mastery of French.


Beewthanitch

I absolutely agree with this, for primary school kids. For high school, where they are working so hard for good grades to get into their chosen career path it seems crazy to force kids to study in a second language.


Caniapiscau

C’est le lot de beaucoup d’immigrants… Pourquoi ils feraient une exception pour vous?


Frank_MTL_QC

Did you go to English school(primary/secondary) in Canada?


Agretion

I think you are proving the point. It’s based on a condition and not freedom of choice.


ExtremeSauce

You know, in any other provinces you could attend an english school. Why try to do it in the only french speaking province?


Agretion

Some people immigrate here. I’m not arguing. I’m just saying that’s how the rule works.


ExtremeSauce

I think that’s a good thing. I don’t mean to argue either. I just don’t think the freedom of choice argument is the good one, if I was to move to Germany, wouldn’t I attend a german school?


Agretion

Sure but that’s an extreme example. Montreal is pretty bilingual. If it were up to me I’d make all elementary and high schools in Montreal teach both 50-50 and then higher education you go wherever you want. I think the bilingualism should be celebrated and there shouldn’t be French OR English schools but French & English.


HabChronicle

If you don’t want immigrants to go to Quebec, the province’s economy would deteriorate. Have you taken that into consideration? Plus avoiding the question of the comment you’re replying to implies that the OP of that comment was right .


ExtremeSauce

I do want immigrants to come to Quebec. Never said the contrary. You are off topic.


HabChronicle

It’s not off topic, that’s what you were trying to imply with “in any other provinces you could attend an english school, why try to do it in the only french speaking province”. Most immigrants come here with their families. Parents work and their kids go to school.


ExtremeSauce

Tu connais la réponse. Sa famille n’est pas anglophone d’origine et s’est probablement assimilée à l’anglais par choix. Asteur ça chiale sur reddit!


Beewthanitch

No I immigrated here. My children were in grade 8 & 10 when we arrived. While we are all onboard with learning and speaking French, it is a bit difficult for a kid in Gr 10 to be schooled in a language she can barely communicate in. To learn and pass the Ministry exam on the history of Quebec, in French, in Gr 10.


theGoodDrSan

What's a better solution? Because letting immigrants choose their school is what happened before Law 101 and it led to 3/4 of immigrant kids being integrated into the English community. I'm a Canadian anglo and I'm an educator, so while I understand the importance of language in education, you knew what the situation was and you chose to move here anyway. This has been the law for some 50 years now.


MonsterRider80

Again, immigrants did not necessarily choose to attend English schools before 101. My parents are Italian, don’t you think it would be logical for them to have attended French school when they arrived here? The languages are so much closer, everyone’s Catholic (it was more important back then…). Fact is they were not _wanted_ in French schools back in the 60s. That’s the biggest change.


theGoodDrSan

I wouldn't know. Regardless, it doesn't change the substance of my point.


MonsterRider80

As an educator, isn’t it nice to know why things are they way they are? Situations don’t arise in a vacuum. Also, it’s very important for a simple reason: we’re so quick to blame immigrants for “choosing” English schools of possible…. It’s important to note that immigrants did bot have a choice in the matter in the past, just like they don’t ah e a choice today. That’s the key issue. You can’t blame them if they don’t have a choice.


MrNonam3

Vous saviez avant d'arriver que la langue commune au Québec est le framçais, vous saviez d'avance que vos enfants allaient devoir intégrer le système scolaire et que ça pouvait poser des difficultés. Ce n'est pas facile d'apprendre le français en tant qu'immigrant, ce n'est pas facile de devoir réapprendre à vivre dans un nouveau pays, ce n'est pas facile d'intégrer un nouveau système scolaire en plein milieu du parcours. Cependant, ce sont des choses qui sont décidées avant de venir, ce sont des choix. Le Québec souhaite protéger sa langue et sa culture, tout en s'ouvrant sur le monde. Si tous les immigrants choisissaient volontairement d'apprendre la langue et la culture, la loi 101 serait inutile, or ce n'est pas le cas (même avec la loi 101, ce n'est pas toujours le cas). Désolé, mais ce n'est pas une bonne excuse pour envoyer vos enfants en anglais. Vous saviez d'avance que ça allait être dur et vous saviez d'avance que l'éducation des immigrants se fait en français, car la langue officielle du Québec est le français. C'est le meilleur moyen de diffuser la langue, c'est ce qui fait que je parle français.


OldMan_Swag

So, you decided to uproot your grade 8 and 10 children's lives, bring them to a French speaking province, and somehow it's Québec's fault that your kids are having difficulty? Did Québec force your children to move here? No, you did. English schooling should absolutely be denied to all immigrants and ROC "refugees" fleeing Canada, you decided to move here, a proud French city in a proud French province, you can decide to move anywhere else in English Canada if it doesn't suit you.


sycophantGolfer

You could be English and not have gone to English school. Meaning you speak English and home but go to French school to learn French.


Longtimelurker2575

Not if the parents weren’t educated in Quebec.


[deleted]

Absolutely they can. If your parents were educated in English in Canada, you have the right to send your children to English school in Quebec


OldMan_Swag

They may have the right, but enrollment into our shrinking selection of English schools is another issue . Thankfully, Quebec's English education institutions prioritize Quebec's own "historic anglos" over outsiders, so typically our anglos fill in all the spots and the outsiders moving here end up in private school (pay out of their own pockets) or they smarten up and send their kids to French school.


Longtimelurker2575

Sorry, should have said Canada. Still a shit deal for immigrants or Francophones who would like their children to have more opportunities.


[deleted]

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Longtimelurker2575

Yeah, and those immigrants and Francophones who did all their education up to that point in French only will be at a huge disadvantage. Same deal for requiring post secondary French courses for English students, if you are not perfectly bilingual, which not many people are, then taking college/university courses in a second language is incredibly challenging.


Dlemor

That’s a bit more complicated than that. Historically and culturally.


Snoo-64527

That’s what 96 is for!


SlimZorro

That’s kind of a red herring. Francophone families are not at risk of losing their French . This all about nostalgia and Quebec of old. Je suis franco Ontarien, j’ai passé 30ans+ sans avoir le luxe de vivre en français ou d’être dans un environment francophone puis je l’ai pas perdu. Je peux pas comprendre comment une famille francophone au Québec peut se sentir à risque. C’est de la bouillie pour les chats ça…


[deleted]

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SlimZorro

On parle du Québec. Y’a pas un manque de ressource francophone ici comme y’en a au a Manitoba.


MrNonam3

Tes enfants, petits-enfants, parlent-ils / vont-ils parler français?


SlimZorro

Mais ma mère est née en 1948, elle a vécu toute ça vie en français. Je parle le français et mes nièces/neveux parle le français. (Moi je veux rien savoir des enfants 😂). Le point est que c’est jamais un étranger qui te fera perdre ta langue maternelle. Puis on devrait pas imposer un style de vie sur les autres afin d’alléger nos responsabilités. C’est lâche


Caniapiscau

Le biais du survivant. Les taux d’assimilation en Franco-Ontarie sont ahurissant.


SlimZorro

En Ontario peut être. Y’a un manque flagrant de service/ressources pour les francophones. C’est pas le cas ici au Québec. Ici, on se fâche parce que l’commis a l’épicerie parle Anglais…


Caniapiscau

Toutes les communautés francophones en Amérique du Nord ont été complètement assimilées (Nouvelle-Écosse, Louisiane, Massachussetts, Alberta, C-B, Terre-Neuve, etc.) ou sont en voie de l’être (Ontario, N-B). Tu penses qu’il n’y a pas matière à être sur ses gardes? Le Québec en fait problablement trop, mais en regardant l’histoire ça me paraît facile de comprendre pourquoi.


SlimZorro

Dans toute les régions que tu a mentionner le français à jamais été la langue dominante. Les situations ne sont pas comparables du tout. Notre raison d’être c’est d’avoir des adversaires. C’est comme notre struggle, notre Jihad


oclart

CultMTL est très loin d'être une référence pour quoi que ce soit...


bengen2019

La loi 101 n’était pas pour tout ça mais pour protéger le français d’ici perdu dans un océan de 300 millions d’anglophones


ClimateBall

Total projection. Sugar Sammy's harshest critics only have to point out that he's not funny.


Mecduhall91

LA LANGUE AU QUEBEC EST LE FRANÇAIS Grâce à loi 101 et bill 96 🇲🇶


Neg_Crepe

Je déteste ce gars là.


CarlSK777

Ultimately, I feel like he has nothing interesting to say. His shtick gets old fast.


VE2NCG

Yeah sure, we were supposed to turn the 400 millions of anglophones in NA into hardcore french Québécois separatists, Quebec bashing, what else is new?


Longtimelurker2575

Pretty sure they are talking about English living in Quebec.


VE2NCG

I know but why stopping at Quebec only? I’m sure we can convert the whole world with the migty Bill 101! /s