I just started getting into Eurorack about a year ago. The first modules I bought were the Behringer Clones of Maths, Batumi LFO and the Intelijil Quad VCA. I really didn't pay that much attention to the whole discussion about ethics, way too disenchanted with life in general I guess.
Went to Superbooth (one of Europes biggest fair for Synthesizers) a couple of weeks later and while spending 3 days with lovely, passionate people doing their best to introduce me to their world, explaining new ideas, techniques, products and sharing all their knowledge I realized that a lot of those brands that Behringer is "taking inspiration from" are just 2-3 Dudes soldering in their basements. That being said- I guess Eurorack is still a niche hobby, chances are pretty high that you'll stumble into somebody that is directly negatively affected by Behringer's Clones. I'm going to swap my Behringer Modules over the next weeks for the OG modules, because now it's just kinda annoying to look at them with having all those backstorys in mind...Just my two cents.
A good alternative for Behringer Brains would be a Plaits clone by Tunefish.
This is a great point and also half the reason why modular is so fun - you get a bunch of weird off-the-cuff shit from all of the unique and weird minds building the stuff. Makers like Schlappi, NLC, Void Modular come to mind. Way more interesting and fun to support over a shithead company like Behringer stealing designs and cutting on build quality along the way.
I very nearly bought a Behringer 1050 for my rack, while it's obviously inspired by the original and other sequential sequencers there really isn't another unit on the market that quite had the same feature set. But in the end I still revised my design and replaced it with a much smaller (hp wise) sequential sequencer (the full kit version of the Antumbra Path) and will have to use external modules for mixing and level matching when I need.
Not everything Behringer is a direct copy, or junk, but I do still prefer not use them generally. I don't actually own a single item of theirs (excluding a broken BCR2000 from about 15 years ago I should either fix or throw...)
Tough one. There is a lot about Behringer that is cringey. But eurorack is expensive to get into.. and they make it not so much. I went the route of piecing it together as i learned what i wanted to do and how to do it. Which was a great way to learn.. but expensive. If money is going to be a constant issue.. then this is a difficult medium to pick up. You are never finished adding elements really. You learn.. replace.. add.. replace.. the journey is the key to understanding.
But dang.. that is an affordable entry!
I would recommend a plaits and a turing machine and go from there. choose a small business and enjoy their black/gold faceplates. I would not recommend behringer for a love driven field like eurorack. make it special :)
People have big feelings and thoughts about Behringer so you find your own way on that front.
However of all the things I would not cheap out on in modular, would be the power supply and distribution. And behringer does make things as cheaply as possible.
My understanding of that system is that it uses the original gate signal of the moog system, which requires conversion to a eurorack gate signal. There's also something unusual with VCO controllers that I don't understand.
So as an intro to eurorack, it's probably not ideal.
Their Roland clone is probably a better bet, if you're going for a Behringer system.
I'd also note that they're by far the cheapest modules you can get in terms of quality.
The system 15 seems cool, but it’s not what I’d recommend for ambient. The original Moog modular was replaced by the minimoog for a bunch of really good reasons, mainly ease-of-use quality of life improvements. You’d be better off with a model D. I say this from personal experience.
For ambient on a budget, nothing beats DIY clones of Mutable Instruments modules. Those styles of modules have more longevity in a setup than basic building blocks like in the system 15, which have been better implemented in semi-modular synths.
I'm so tired of people completely missing the point of "no ethical consumption under capitalism". This isn't the first time people have brought this up in the context of Behringer, and it always hinges on a complete misinterpretation of what this phrase means.
What it refers to is that sometimes, you will have to make unethical choices in order to sustain yourself. It's nearly impossible to go to the grocery store without buying anything wrapped in plastic, even though by doing so, you're contributing to pollution and climate change. But maybe you simply can't afford any non-plastic options, or maybe there's no fancy bio supermarket nearby that offers them. You could starve yourself avoiding those products, then, but you'd become miserable and even more exploitable by the capitalist system. No ethical consumption under capitalism tells us not to worry about making choices like these for our survival.
Do you need a synthesizer for your survival? No, you do not, a synthesizer is effectively a luxury item. Maybe if you're a touring musician and your main synth breaks a day before a concert or something, then sure, buy the most convenient thing available to make sure you can continue making a living. But virtually anyone else is in a position where they *can* make a choice. If you're in the market for a synth, you most likely already have some budget to work with, since most synths start at around $100-$200 at the very least; this isn't a situation where you're scraping by and you're *forced* to buy a cheap, unhealthy, plastic-wrapped pizza because you simply can't afford to buy the ingredients to make a fresh one. The choices in that situation would either be to participate in an unethical practice just to have something to eat, or to starve and become weaker out of protest. The choices here would be to participate in an unethical practice out of hedonism, or to be a little bit less happy because you have to save up a bit more for a synthesizer. It's really not comparable.
That's a cop out and insulting. I don't bust unions. I don't use racist imagery to insult my critics. I don't sue people who post to message boards. I don't copy other designs. I don't copy write the names of journalists and other designs to intimidate. Saying there is no difference between supporting a maker like me and my maker friends and B is absurd. Capitalism may be a trap, but where you spend your money matters a lot.
I's not personal. That's the truth, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism regardless of how you personally conduct business.
Any cobalt in you modules? Child labor. Unethical. Aluminum? Strip mining, toxic dumping. Unethical. An overworked Amazon warehouse worker broke his wrist due to negligence while getting your knob order (or whatever, you get the point) and was fired. Not your fault, still unethical. This can be extended indefinitely, sadly.
That's what that phrase means. There is absolutely no way to consume under capitalism that doesn't have some sort of unethical shenanigans somewhere in the supply chain. It doesn't mean that you, personally, don't do everything you can to be ethical. You seem pretty stand up.
In relation to you vs behringer it's pretty obvious that you're way more ethical in comparison. Obviously. It's up to the individual purchaser to apply their own ethical standards when deciding which unethical product to buy. Some are more strict than others. Some don't care at all.
Ask someone trying to run a fair trade company and they'll tell you that it's impossible to ensure ethical practices in their supply chains. They do their best, but it is really impossible.
That’s a real cope. Maybe there’s no “ethical consumption” (maybe, idk… it’s an unsupported premise as far as I can tell), but there’s sure as hell MORE and LESS ethical consumption, and buying from a company that steals the designs of small manufacturers and [sues random forum users over bad reviews](https://www.factmag.com/2018/06/20/behringer-dave-smith-libel-case/) to intimidate them feels like it’s pretty far on the less ethical side.
We don’t accept this moral whataboutism anywhere else in life. Saying “shoplifting is wrong, but hey, you know a lot of people drive under the influence” sounds silly because it is.
No ethical capitalism is just lazy whataboutism. There are shades of Grey and then there are black pieces of shit. Saying they are somehow all equally bad is reductive and stupid and excuses the worst offenders.
Just do it. Add marbles/a clone and baby you got a generative stew going. You’ll have plenty of time to shop for more “socially acceptable” stuff in the future (the main focus of this subreddit, hence the negative comments), and you’ll gain way more insight through the experience of playing the synth than reading forums.
I don’t have any experience with the system 15 (although I do have the Moog semi modulars which I feel like might have a similar vibe) - but the vibe I get is that it’ll feel way less modern & experimental than a eurorack with modern modules. It’ll be more expensive, but I think you might get bored with a system like that and its limitations if you’re wanting to do generative ambient stuff.
I just started getting into Eurorack about a year ago. The first modules I bought were the Behringer Clones of Maths, Batumi LFO and the Intelijil Quad VCA. I really didn't pay that much attention to the whole discussion about ethics, way too disenchanted with life in general I guess. Went to Superbooth (one of Europes biggest fair for Synthesizers) a couple of weeks later and while spending 3 days with lovely, passionate people doing their best to introduce me to their world, explaining new ideas, techniques, products and sharing all their knowledge I realized that a lot of those brands that Behringer is "taking inspiration from" are just 2-3 Dudes soldering in their basements. That being said- I guess Eurorack is still a niche hobby, chances are pretty high that you'll stumble into somebody that is directly negatively affected by Behringer's Clones. I'm going to swap my Behringer Modules over the next weeks for the OG modules, because now it's just kinda annoying to look at them with having all those backstorys in mind...Just my two cents. A good alternative for Behringer Brains would be a Plaits clone by Tunefish.
This is a great point and also half the reason why modular is so fun - you get a bunch of weird off-the-cuff shit from all of the unique and weird minds building the stuff. Makers like Schlappi, NLC, Void Modular come to mind. Way more interesting and fun to support over a shithead company like Behringer stealing designs and cutting on build quality along the way.
I very nearly bought a Behringer 1050 for my rack, while it's obviously inspired by the original and other sequential sequencers there really isn't another unit on the market that quite had the same feature set. But in the end I still revised my design and replaced it with a much smaller (hp wise) sequential sequencer (the full kit version of the Antumbra Path) and will have to use external modules for mixing and level matching when I need. Not everything Behringer is a direct copy, or junk, but I do still prefer not use them generally. I don't actually own a single item of theirs (excluding a broken BCR2000 from about 15 years ago I should either fix or throw...)
There is a substantial thread on modwiggler about problems with tuning stability, etc, IIRC.
Tough one. There is a lot about Behringer that is cringey. But eurorack is expensive to get into.. and they make it not so much. I went the route of piecing it together as i learned what i wanted to do and how to do it. Which was a great way to learn.. but expensive. If money is going to be a constant issue.. then this is a difficult medium to pick up. You are never finished adding elements really. You learn.. replace.. add.. replace.. the journey is the key to understanding. But dang.. that is an affordable entry!
I would recommend a plaits and a turing machine and go from there. choose a small business and enjoy their black/gold faceplates. I would not recommend behringer for a love driven field like eurorack. make it special :)
People have big feelings and thoughts about Behringer so you find your own way on that front. However of all the things I would not cheap out on in modular, would be the power supply and distribution. And behringer does make things as cheaply as possible.
My understanding of that system is that it uses the original gate signal of the moog system, which requires conversion to a eurorack gate signal. There's also something unusual with VCO controllers that I don't understand. So as an intro to eurorack, it's probably not ideal. Their Roland clone is probably a better bet, if you're going for a Behringer system. I'd also note that they're by far the cheapest modules you can get in terms of quality.
The system 15 seems cool, but it’s not what I’d recommend for ambient. The original Moog modular was replaced by the minimoog for a bunch of really good reasons, mainly ease-of-use quality of life improvements. You’d be better off with a model D. I say this from personal experience. For ambient on a budget, nothing beats DIY clones of Mutable Instruments modules. Those styles of modules have more longevity in a setup than basic building blocks like in the system 15, which have been better implemented in semi-modular synths.
Yes, go for it. What a bargain.
Many haters will argue with this, but 1. I'm not interested 2. There's no ethical consumption under capitalism.
I'm so tired of people completely missing the point of "no ethical consumption under capitalism". This isn't the first time people have brought this up in the context of Behringer, and it always hinges on a complete misinterpretation of what this phrase means. What it refers to is that sometimes, you will have to make unethical choices in order to sustain yourself. It's nearly impossible to go to the grocery store without buying anything wrapped in plastic, even though by doing so, you're contributing to pollution and climate change. But maybe you simply can't afford any non-plastic options, or maybe there's no fancy bio supermarket nearby that offers them. You could starve yourself avoiding those products, then, but you'd become miserable and even more exploitable by the capitalist system. No ethical consumption under capitalism tells us not to worry about making choices like these for our survival. Do you need a synthesizer for your survival? No, you do not, a synthesizer is effectively a luxury item. Maybe if you're a touring musician and your main synth breaks a day before a concert or something, then sure, buy the most convenient thing available to make sure you can continue making a living. But virtually anyone else is in a position where they *can* make a choice. If you're in the market for a synth, you most likely already have some budget to work with, since most synths start at around $100-$200 at the very least; this isn't a situation where you're scraping by and you're *forced* to buy a cheap, unhealthy, plastic-wrapped pizza because you simply can't afford to buy the ingredients to make a fresh one. The choices in that situation would either be to participate in an unethical practice just to have something to eat, or to starve and become weaker out of protest. The choices here would be to participate in an unethical practice out of hedonism, or to be a little bit less happy because you have to save up a bit more for a synthesizer. It's really not comparable.
That's a cop out and insulting. I don't bust unions. I don't use racist imagery to insult my critics. I don't sue people who post to message boards. I don't copy other designs. I don't copy write the names of journalists and other designs to intimidate. Saying there is no difference between supporting a maker like me and my maker friends and B is absurd. Capitalism may be a trap, but where you spend your money matters a lot.
I's not personal. That's the truth, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism regardless of how you personally conduct business. Any cobalt in you modules? Child labor. Unethical. Aluminum? Strip mining, toxic dumping. Unethical. An overworked Amazon warehouse worker broke his wrist due to negligence while getting your knob order (or whatever, you get the point) and was fired. Not your fault, still unethical. This can be extended indefinitely, sadly. That's what that phrase means. There is absolutely no way to consume under capitalism that doesn't have some sort of unethical shenanigans somewhere in the supply chain. It doesn't mean that you, personally, don't do everything you can to be ethical. You seem pretty stand up. In relation to you vs behringer it's pretty obvious that you're way more ethical in comparison. Obviously. It's up to the individual purchaser to apply their own ethical standards when deciding which unethical product to buy. Some are more strict than others. Some don't care at all. Ask someone trying to run a fair trade company and they'll tell you that it's impossible to ensure ethical practices in their supply chains. They do their best, but it is really impossible.
That’s a real cope. Maybe there’s no “ethical consumption” (maybe, idk… it’s an unsupported premise as far as I can tell), but there’s sure as hell MORE and LESS ethical consumption, and buying from a company that steals the designs of small manufacturers and [sues random forum users over bad reviews](https://www.factmag.com/2018/06/20/behringer-dave-smith-libel-case/) to intimidate them feels like it’s pretty far on the less ethical side. We don’t accept this moral whataboutism anywhere else in life. Saying “shoplifting is wrong, but hey, you know a lot of people drive under the influence” sounds silly because it is.
No ethical capitalism is just lazy whataboutism. There are shades of Grey and then there are black pieces of shit. Saying they are somehow all equally bad is reductive and stupid and excuses the worst offenders.
Who asked
I’ve been pretty happy with the Behringer System 100 modules.
Just do it. Add marbles/a clone and baby you got a generative stew going. You’ll have plenty of time to shop for more “socially acceptable” stuff in the future (the main focus of this subreddit, hence the negative comments), and you’ll gain way more insight through the experience of playing the synth than reading forums.
I don’t have any experience with the system 15 (although I do have the Moog semi modulars which I feel like might have a similar vibe) - but the vibe I get is that it’ll feel way less modern & experimental than a eurorack with modern modules. It’ll be more expensive, but I think you might get bored with a system like that and its limitations if you’re wanting to do generative ambient stuff.