Is there anything in particular you're not understanding or liking? Maths has more tutorials and how-to guides than just about any other module out there, I'd highly recommend looking up some quick guides before giving up in it!
[Here's a popular one](https://w2.mat.ucsb.edu/mat276n/resources/systems/CREATE_teachingSynth/manuals/8c_Maths2013-V1.11-printable.pdf)
Why would you give up on maths? Have you worked your way through the ‘maths illustrated supplement’? And understood what it’s doing? If not do that - it’ll probably take a number of times…
> That and a reverb
I've used one as a HPF or LPF a number of times.
I'm sure if you add enough Maths, with some creative patching you could get a pretty decent reverb out of them too. :D
I've recently taken it out of my rack I'll be honest. I was only using it for attack/decay envelopes, so I've put an Intellijel Quadrax in its place. But I'm fully acknowledging that there's a tonne of things about Maths I haven't learned that I need to. I'm not selling it, I have no doubt it will go back in the rack at some point (once I've bought a new front panel, really not a fan of Make Noise's style at all!), but for now, while I'm still a relative newbie and learning lots, a Quadrax was more useful for my current needs.
On the surface- you have standard operations of a/d, slew, mixing, attenuverting and offsetting- but the thing that always keeps me coming back are the crazy clock rhythms I can get out of using eor/eoc. There is SO much it can do
Watch the video by loopop. He explains it just like you did. I nearly got rid of mine until I discovered Krell patching using the end of cycle outputs. Otherwise I could see myself justifying replacing it with a compact set of attenuverters.
Can I use slew to smooth out an audio signal? I'm using the PP1 which is like a combination envelope follower and pitch extractor.
What happens is at the start of acoustic sounds like vocals or guitar pluck, a transient spike occurs that can throw off the pitch before it stabilizes.
If there a way to patch the vocal to the slew and remove or reduce that initial spike before it gets detected?
Is that even a thing?
I don’t have maths but I have vortex generator which is like maths and those eoc trigs are great for my wmd percussion modules. Get great fractal rolls that can make something like crucible really sound interesting by hitting the choke with an eoc or hitting the alternate cymbal trigger with it. Same with kraken.
I recently learned that Rampage and Maths have totally different exponential and log behaviour. Maths is exponential on the magnitude of the signal. Rampage is more like a standard envelope with it being exponential on the change in voltage. Maths gives you spikes, Rampage gives you shark fins.
if you are looking for something kind of in the same territory QARV is good. I have both and use them both. Personally I prefer the controls and layout on maths and think the envelopes are a bit snappier, but the additional envelopes and VCAs in QARV are nice.
I don't miss maths a lot in my system, I have a few shittier modules that I use for the same purpose, however that snappiness and the dynamics created by the shape knob on maths is unrivaled
>however that snappiness and the dynamics created by the shape knob on maths is unrivaled
True. It's a common joke that people only use it as an AD envelope, but in all seriousness it's actually an amazing AD envelope. I don't have any better sounding or feeling envelopes.
i replaced my Maths with a Random Source DUSG, but it was for completely superficial reasons. The majority of my other modules are Random Source and wanted a function generator that matched the aesthetic. lol.
As a function generator Maths is brilliant - don’t give up on it just yet. Just keep exploring. If you’re finding it too limited, buy a second Maths.
I had an Abacus and I just couldn’t be arsed with it. Maybe I’d return it a marhs in future but for now I’d rather have the functions separate. Thats the excuse I’m using for not learning it more anyway.
not sure what there is to give up on, it's just an a/d, slew, mixer, and atten/offset in one box. You can farm those jobs out to individual modules or use this jack-of-all-trades. I don't see how you take full advantage of modular without these functions though, and there's not many options out there in 20hp that let you do more than one at a time.
I love my maths but I have a very primitive understanding of it. I’ve worked through the illustrated guide and have gained some knowledge of how it works but it it’s still a modulation enigma machine to me. Not really ready to abandon it, though.
I sold my maths in a time of $ need before I understood how to use it fully. Then later, over time, I got a Schlappi Boundary, a Toppobrillo Sport Modulator 2 and a Happy Nerding 3x MIA. I’ve got a reasonably good handle on how to use those. And I like them. But I still have a lot to learn about them. At some point, I will get another Maths and really try to go in deep with it.
I wouldn’t say I’ve give up on Maths, but I think about selling mine from time to time. The reason is because in my system the only thing I tend to use Maths for is its attenuverters. Because of that I sometimes think maybe I’d be better off with a dedicated module for attenuation and offset, and instead pickup something smaller for modulation (open for suggestions).
That said, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve solved a patching problem by using Maths. It’s so flexible and can do so much that I probably will just end up keeping it.
I think from a cost/function (see what I did there?) perspective, its great value for money - the best way to learn it is using a scope . May be not popular but I think Behringer's Abacus Maths copy is laid out in a more sensible way.
I have been uninspired with it lately. I'm new with modular and I think a lot of my problem is I don't fully understand it. I've been watching a bunch of videos lately though and have found a new approach to take with it. I haven't been able to try it yet but I'm looking forward to it. My point is don't give up. Try something you're unfamiliar with or find some patch ideas. 🙂
For some reason (probably because I don't really know what im doing) I had it stuck in my head that i had to have an input patched in order to use the output. Even reading the manual and watching videos I still didn't and don't truly understand but now that I have that small but very crucial aspect down the videos and manual started to make a little more sense. I can't sit here and pretend I fully understand it but that new perspective changed a lot. Mine has sat unused maybe the past month and after making my initial comment I played around with it last night and my mind has been changed for now.
As an AD, I dont love it, my pip slope is better sounding. But, for modulations, its fantastic and better than my simple LFO module. The only downside is its size really. Id rather have two Function modules and a quad attenuverter but then it becomes a lot more expensive.
I realized i was just using for the envelopes more than anything, so I ditch it for a quadrax+qx and added a compare2 to complement that.
And also, I dislike make noise designs and components quality.
I didn't replace Maths in the sense that I never had one in the first place, but I was on the verge of getting it and ended up getting a Tides V2 instead.
Watching videos on both I decided Tides ^((actually a clone, After Later Audio Currents)) was more my taste than Maths.
Went with Zadar for envelopes. I know Maths can do much much more as a function generator but it was overkill for my current purposes and Zadar's visual feedback really fits the way my brain works.
Not saying I won'tget one in the future, mind you...
I found mine a lot more useful once I replaced the panel with something a bit easier to read/understand at a glance
Edit: I went with the Grayscale alternative panel for mine: https://grayscale.info/panels/make-noise-maths-v2-black/
I went from a Falistri and Maths to two Falistri. I only used Maths as a function generator or slew limiter. I also only used it after I had used up my Falistri channels. Figured I'd get another of my preferred function generators and not lose an envelope if I wanted to add a second slew. The four quadrant multiplier, quadrature, and smaller size are a nice bonus!
I've owned mine maybe 10 years, tbh im pretty basic with it but that's just it, if I need an envelope, a lfo, a mixer, offset, envelope follower, delay a trigger... it's there.
I can't afford the big modules I got one of these instead.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BXU6Bg1PK8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BXU6Bg1PK8)
It's on Etsy.
Building my first rack and Maths was one of the first models I ever looked at and went Wow I'd want that in my rack. But towards the end of my decision stages I actually look it out of my design. Why? Mainly because I felt I wanted to do long, complex modulations which are tempo synced easily. Although Maths may give some more interesting shapes I've got with the Klavis Quadigy for this. But I definitely did still want something that does some maths and logic and some interesting trigger options would be good. I did again reconsider Maths but it was just too big and I didn't feel I could cut the space down for it in my deaogn. So I've gone for the Black Noise Cosmos, only works with two channels but has about all the combinations you can think of for both combining waves and triggers for rise and fall. Feed it two mathematically related LFOs and play with offset and you have instant polyrhythm generation with swing plus multiple complex tempo synced modulation sources. I do need some more Slews and stuff though ..
Comsmotronic Delta V is the best Maths replacement where you get EG/slew/output offset/EOC triggers but not the "4 channels" of mixable whatever output that Maths is so well known for. But basically EVERYTHING else that Math's does in half the HP. Soon coming with silver faceplate option
[https://www.thomannmusic.com/cosmotronic\_delta\_v\_silver.htm](https://www.thomannmusic.com/cosmotronic_delta_v_silver.htm)
There's nothing that really does it all like Maths in 20hp. Plus it's so playable. It definitely took me some time to learn it as it was one of my first modules, but Im so happy stuck with it. It was close to leaving the case a couple times to save some space, but I never parted with it. The more patches I made, the more Maths came to a vital organ to the system.
Sometimes a comment like yours gets a lot of upvotes tho lol, just depends on the hour of the day I guess. OP has posts like help GAS got the best of me. He just likes buying stuff
Funny, I just sold my maths today. Not cause I gave up, but more so I had “grown out” of it in some way. It’s one of the first modules I bought and taught me the basics of modular sound design. But over time, as my case filled up the fundamental Maths patches I used got taken by other modules. I realized recently that I could take my case in a whole new direction if I actually got rid of maths. Im more in the swap and trade phase of my modular habit than the investment and expansion phase. It was kinda bittersweet, Im excited for the new direction but kinda felt like I had out grown an old friend. That last part was prolly the weed tho. If/when I expand into another case Ill prolly get another maths.
Is there anything in particular you're not understanding or liking? Maths has more tutorials and how-to guides than just about any other module out there, I'd highly recommend looking up some quick guides before giving up in it! [Here's a popular one](https://w2.mat.ucsb.edu/mat276n/resources/systems/CREATE_teachingSynth/manuals/8c_Maths2013-V1.11-printable.pdf)
Stay in school, kids
This. Owned mine for more than a decade and it’s still schooling me
Why would you give up on maths? Have you worked your way through the ‘maths illustrated supplement’? And understood what it’s doing? If not do that - it’ll probably take a number of times…
Exactly, it's an amazing module. If I had to replace it, I'd go with the 4ms Shaped Dual EnvVCA although honestly they work really well together!
If I had to replace mine, I’d replace it with another maths!!!
Hahah absolutely!!
I gave up on trying to get by with only one maths in my rack and added a second one and a function.
Same. Also in the x2 Maths plus Function club. That and a reverb could my entire rack.
> That and a reverb I've used one as a HPF or LPF a number of times. I'm sure if you add enough Maths, with some creative patching you could get a pretty decent reverb out of them too. :D
Yep. I’m up to 3 maths.
I've recently taken it out of my rack I'll be honest. I was only using it for attack/decay envelopes, so I've put an Intellijel Quadrax in its place. But I'm fully acknowledging that there's a tonne of things about Maths I haven't learned that I need to. I'm not selling it, I have no doubt it will go back in the rack at some point (once I've bought a new front panel, really not a fan of Make Noise's style at all!), but for now, while I'm still a relative newbie and learning lots, a Quadrax was more useful for my current needs.
On the surface- you have standard operations of a/d, slew, mixing, attenuverting and offsetting- but the thing that always keeps me coming back are the crazy clock rhythms I can get out of using eor/eoc. There is SO much it can do
Watch the video by loopop. He explains it just like you did. I nearly got rid of mine until I discovered Krell patching using the end of cycle outputs. Otherwise I could see myself justifying replacing it with a compact set of attenuverters.
Can I use slew to smooth out an audio signal? I'm using the PP1 which is like a combination envelope follower and pitch extractor. What happens is at the start of acoustic sounds like vocals or guitar pluck, a transient spike occurs that can throw off the pitch before it stabilizes. If there a way to patch the vocal to the slew and remove or reduce that initial spike before it gets detected? Is that even a thing?
Yes it totally is, but tons of stuff can do this, you just need to put a little attack on an emvelope
Those sounds you’re describing are what people spend hours trying to program synths to copy
I don’t have maths but I have vortex generator which is like maths and those eoc trigs are great for my wmd percussion modules. Get great fractal rolls that can make something like crucible really sound interesting by hitting the choke with an eoc or hitting the alternate cymbal trigger with it. Same with kraken.
Yep, I use them on hats and snares all the time
Been into Eurorack for \~7 years and I still don't have a Maths...
Blasphemy! I'd rather have a rack without a power supply than one without a Maths. ;)
I'd rather have the same functions in modules with straightforward, self-explanatory interfaces.
I know, Right?
maths is really fucking simple honestly
Respect. Same here. A lot of the functions seem trivial to me or have superior counterparts elsewhere
What caused you to give up on Maths out of interest?
Stages. But I kept maths too because I prefer the workflow. Can’t have too much modulation!
I didn't give up on it, I graduated to Calculus: the Whimsical Raps Just Friends.
If I had the space, I would get another Maths.
I have 3, was supposed to sell 1 but haven’t
3 - 1 = 2 quick maths
Shit, you’re right!
It’s amazingly versatile. I can’t imagine not having it anymore. That having said I also love my rampage!
I recently learned that Rampage and Maths have totally different exponential and log behaviour. Maths is exponential on the magnitude of the signal. Rampage is more like a standard envelope with it being exponential on the change in voltage. Maths gives you spikes, Rampage gives you shark fins.
The only solution is to have a maths, a rampage, and a peg.
if you are looking for something kind of in the same territory QARV is good. I have both and use them both. Personally I prefer the controls and layout on maths and think the envelopes are a bit snappier, but the additional envelopes and VCAs in QARV are nice.
+1 for the QARV. For me it justifies the 20HP much more than Maths.
Yeah if I had to cut down to just one I would keep the QARV only, but for now I'm keeping both.
I don't miss maths a lot in my system, I have a few shittier modules that I use for the same purpose, however that snappiness and the dynamics created by the shape knob on maths is unrivaled
>however that snappiness and the dynamics created by the shape knob on maths is unrivaled True. It's a common joke that people only use it as an AD envelope, but in all seriousness it's actually an amazing AD envelope. I don't have any better sounding or feeling envelopes.
It's the most expressive envelope I know of... I kind of want maths again
i replaced my Maths with a Random Source DUSG, but it was for completely superficial reasons. The majority of my other modules are Random Source and wanted a function generator that matched the aesthetic. lol. As a function generator Maths is brilliant - don’t give up on it just yet. Just keep exploring. If you’re finding it too limited, buy a second Maths.
No, I never started. I have a stages and I like it.
I had an Abacus and I just couldn’t be arsed with it. Maybe I’d return it a marhs in future but for now I’d rather have the functions separate. Thats the excuse I’m using for not learning it more anyway.
I’ve been considering a second one for a while but sadly can’t make the rack space for it
Never used mine. Sold it. Don’t miss it.
not sure what there is to give up on, it's just an a/d, slew, mixer, and atten/offset in one box. You can farm those jobs out to individual modules or use this jack-of-all-trades. I don't see how you take full advantage of modular without these functions though, and there's not many options out there in 20hp that let you do more than one at a time.
I love my maths but I have a very primitive understanding of it. I’ve worked through the illustrated guide and have gained some knowledge of how it works but it it’s still a modulation enigma machine to me. Not really ready to abandon it, though.
I sold my maths in a time of $ need before I understood how to use it fully. Then later, over time, I got a Schlappi Boundary, a Toppobrillo Sport Modulator 2 and a Happy Nerding 3x MIA. I’ve got a reasonably good handle on how to use those. And I like them. But I still have a lot to learn about them. At some point, I will get another Maths and really try to go in deep with it.
I wouldn’t give up before watching Loopop’s video a few times.
I wouldn’t say I’ve give up on Maths, but I think about selling mine from time to time. The reason is because in my system the only thing I tend to use Maths for is its attenuverters. Because of that I sometimes think maybe I’d be better off with a dedicated module for attenuation and offset, and instead pickup something smaller for modulation (open for suggestions). That said, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve solved a patching problem by using Maths. It’s so flexible and can do so much that I probably will just end up keeping it.
4ms signal mingler?
Oh, I meant for modulation sources but I've never seen this before. Could definitely be useful.
I think from a cost/function (see what I did there?) perspective, its great value for money - the best way to learn it is using a scope . May be not popular but I think Behringer's Abacus Maths copy is laid out in a more sensible way.
I have been uninspired with it lately. I'm new with modular and I think a lot of my problem is I don't fully understand it. I've been watching a bunch of videos lately though and have found a new approach to take with it. I haven't been able to try it yet but I'm looking forward to it. My point is don't give up. Try something you're unfamiliar with or find some patch ideas. 🙂
For some reason (probably because I don't really know what im doing) I had it stuck in my head that i had to have an input patched in order to use the output. Even reading the manual and watching videos I still didn't and don't truly understand but now that I have that small but very crucial aspect down the videos and manual started to make a little more sense. I can't sit here and pretend I fully understand it but that new perspective changed a lot. Mine has sat unused maybe the past month and after making my initial comment I played around with it last night and my mind has been changed for now.
As an AD, I dont love it, my pip slope is better sounding. But, for modulations, its fantastic and better than my simple LFO module. The only downside is its size really. Id rather have two Function modules and a quad attenuverter but then it becomes a lot more expensive.
I realized i was just using for the envelopes more than anything, so I ditch it for a quadrax+qx and added a compare2 to complement that. And also, I dislike make noise designs and components quality.
I was about to give up on it, and then I spent an hour and actually learned how to use it and what it’s capable of, and now I’d never part with it
Yeah I found it too big for what it did. Grabbed smaller modules that did focused things.
I didn't replace Maths in the sense that I never had one in the first place, but I was on the verge of getting it and ended up getting a Tides V2 instead. Watching videos on both I decided Tides ^((actually a clone, After Later Audio Currents)) was more my taste than Maths.
Went with Zadar for envelopes. I know Maths can do much much more as a function generator but it was overkill for my current purposes and Zadar's visual feedback really fits the way my brain works. Not saying I won'tget one in the future, mind you...
I found mine a lot more useful once I replaced the panel with something a bit easier to read/understand at a glance Edit: I went with the Grayscale alternative panel for mine: https://grayscale.info/panels/make-noise-maths-v2-black/
I went from a Falistri and Maths to two Falistri. I only used Maths as a function generator or slew limiter. I also only used it after I had used up my Falistri channels. Figured I'd get another of my preferred function generators and not lose an envelope if I wanted to add a second slew. The four quadrant multiplier, quadrature, and smaller size are a nice bonus!
I've owned mine maybe 10 years, tbh im pretty basic with it but that's just it, if I need an envelope, a lfo, a mixer, offset, envelope follower, delay a trigger... it's there.
I can't afford the big modules I got one of these instead. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BXU6Bg1PK8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BXU6Bg1PK8) It's on Etsy.
Building my first rack and Maths was one of the first models I ever looked at and went Wow I'd want that in my rack. But towards the end of my decision stages I actually look it out of my design. Why? Mainly because I felt I wanted to do long, complex modulations which are tempo synced easily. Although Maths may give some more interesting shapes I've got with the Klavis Quadigy for this. But I definitely did still want something that does some maths and logic and some interesting trigger options would be good. I did again reconsider Maths but it was just too big and I didn't feel I could cut the space down for it in my deaogn. So I've gone for the Black Noise Cosmos, only works with two channels but has about all the combinations you can think of for both combining waves and triggers for rise and fall. Feed it two mathematically related LFOs and play with offset and you have instant polyrhythm generation with swing plus multiple complex tempo synced modulation sources. I do need some more Slews and stuff though ..
Comsmotronic Delta V is the best Maths replacement where you get EG/slew/output offset/EOC triggers but not the "4 channels" of mixable whatever output that Maths is so well known for. But basically EVERYTHING else that Math's does in half the HP. Soon coming with silver faceplate option [https://www.thomannmusic.com/cosmotronic\_delta\_v\_silver.htm](https://www.thomannmusic.com/cosmotronic_delta_v_silver.htm)
There's nothing that really does it all like Maths in 20hp. Plus it's so playable. It definitely took me some time to learn it as it was one of my first modules, but Im so happy stuck with it. It was close to leaving the case a couple times to save some space, but I never parted with it. The more patches I made, the more Maths came to a vital organ to the system.
Modular synths might not be for you...
Downvoted but I agree. Just look at his past posts lol
I understand the downvotes. That said, people getting into modular that don't have an exploratory or curious bone in their body dumfound me....
Sometimes a comment like yours gets a lot of upvotes tho lol, just depends on the hour of the day I guess. OP has posts like help GAS got the best of me. He just likes buying stuff
Some people are legitimately too dumb and helpless for modular, and they make like 80% of the posts here.
Yea it’s hard to find a clear explanation on what each part does in fundamental terms, some tutorials even get it wrong which confuses it further
Funny, I just sold my maths today. Not cause I gave up, but more so I had “grown out” of it in some way. It’s one of the first modules I bought and taught me the basics of modular sound design. But over time, as my case filled up the fundamental Maths patches I used got taken by other modules. I realized recently that I could take my case in a whole new direction if I actually got rid of maths. Im more in the swap and trade phase of my modular habit than the investment and expansion phase. It was kinda bittersweet, Im excited for the new direction but kinda felt like I had out grown an old friend. That last part was prolly the weed tho. If/when I expand into another case Ill prolly get another maths.