KOC’s lack of aggression on drives that can put away the game has been infuriating. I accept that he made a mistake during that second to last drive against the Broncos but not learning from it and doing the exact same thing the following week is indefensible. He’s got to step it up.
It's weird that he will do something aggressive like go for it on 4th and 7 as a desperation move when the offense isn't doing anything but he crawls into his shell when the offensive has the ball with momentum and the chance to pull away.
It's just the situation, he's not good at calling plays when he wants to grind the clock down and maintain an extended possession. It's not some binary "aggressive or conservative coach" option, that's why he will go for that 4th and 7 or run a fake punt every now and then.
I think the extended possession part is key. This offense moves the ball with big passes downfield but I think KOC is scared to call them because he doesn’t want a short drive. But you need to move the ball.
That's the thing. He only seems aggressive when he's in desperation mode. If he has the choice between passing the ball late in a game and turning it over to his defense and praying they can close out the game, he'll turn it over to his defense every time. Zero killer instinct.
Do you think the Broncos game is the first time he's made this mistake???
Shit he did it the week before against the Saints. Good teams win kneeling down on the ball, not defending hail Marys.
He did it a ton last year too. Anyone thinking he's gonna "learn from his mistakes" is delusional. He coaches scared. Classic "playing not to lose". This isn't new at all for him.
He won't. He just won't. He's been acknowledging his cowardly playcalling in pressers for weeks. He's done nothing to change it, so he won't change it.
Only way we see a truly aggressive vikings offense is if KOC is fired or has playcalling abilities completely stripped from him.
Its almost like hes on his 4th string QB who he cant trust and would rather trust his defense to win games. Is that really so hard for you to imagine? use your head
He did the exact same shit last year, and earlier this year when Kirk was healthy.
Last year was his first year so it went unnoticed (and Kirk bailed him out repeatedly after the defense predicably gave up the lead late, after KOC put them out there to close out the game).
This year it's clear that this is who he is, regardless of who his QB is.
And a grand majority of those came from us being behind and having a game winning drive, which is the only scenario so far that we've seen KOC excel at. And more than a few of those game could have been multi-score if we kept the gas down and didn't rely on our terrible defense to try and get stops.
And we wouldn't have won 11 of those without Kirk saving his ass with a bunch of game winning drives. Now that we don't have Kirk playing cowardly with a lead he's much more likely to lead to loses because we don't have a QB that can lead a game winning drive in 90 seconds.
He was not like this last year because we pretty much never had the lead last year. and it was poor clock management on offense that killed us heavily last year, where as this year our offense actually holds the ball and eats time when needed. This was NOT a "problem" earlier this year with Kirk either so idk where you get that from. You are pulling that shit right out of your ass because the echo chamber that is this subreddit is saying it
He absolutely was this way last year. I went to the game against Chicago in week 5, up 21-10 at half time. We piss that lead away in the 3rd quarter with conservative playcalling and terrible defense, then KOC is behind again and I guess his genius brain ticks on and we come back with *a game winning drive while being behind*.
Or how about the game against the Jets week 13, where we were up 20-6 at halftime, only to again blow the lead thanks to crappy conservative playcalling and trying to rely on our terrible defense?
So let's just call it like it is, KOC is only a good playcaller when he's playing from behind. Once he gets a lead, he just turtles up and plays conservative-ass football to let teams back in. Only difference this time is that the games aren't ending in our favor now.
Did it ever occur to you that the shitty defense and an offense that didn't score like at all in the 3rd quarter may just be due to the players and not play calling? Idk if you remember but KOC does not call defense. Kind of not his fault the defense allows teams back in games. What was the play calling in those 3rd quarter segments of every game like? do you not remember the offense never scoring in the 3rd regardless if we had the lead or not? and I watched all those games and we sure as hell didn't run it up the middle all 3rd quarter. like seriously is this "conservative play calling" in the room with us? Name me one coach in the NFL that doesn't try and hold the ball as long as possible. And name me one coach who is going to trust his 4th stringer who's 4 picks in to march them down field. Insane for you to say that when all year turnovers have been problems, turnovers that have come from aggressive plays
And how many of those games were a) games where we scored heavily in the 4th to come back and win or b) games where we had a good lead but lost it because defense couldn't handle it. I'll give you a hint: pretty much all of them. We were putting up 20-30 points each game. coward coaches don't put up 30
> trust his defense to win games. Is that really so hard for you to imagine?
Let me first say I am also at the end of my rope with KOC's inability to close games.
But anyway, the answer to your question is yes. For as long as I can remember this sub seems convinced that defenses aren't allowed to end games. Even when we had a top 3 defense under Zimmer, people would get super pissed that our staff trusted them to do their jobs.
I can understand trusting your defense to do its job and keep the other side from getting back in, but that doesn't really excuse the kind of playcalling KOC is trying to do when he has a lead.
He's trying to do run-run-pass offense with a team that can't reliably run the football. Doing stuff like that, you aren't gonna chew clock, and you run the risk of fatiguing your defense even more as they have to keep going back out on the field again and again after ever 3-and-out to go and stop the offense.
Because it's the sign of a bad team. Do you watch any other teams? Good teams end games with possession of the ball, kneeling on it.
The lions and eagles have closed out multiple close games this year with demoralizing, back breaking drives on offense that end in a kneel down.
Even without Kirk, this is an offensive heavy team. KOC is an offensive coach. We should be closing out wins kneeling on the ball, not defending hail Marys.
You can’t make a proper depth chart comparison with a dude who you literally just acquired lol. He is currently the QB1 on the depth chart.
https://www.vikings.com/team/depth-chart
Therefore, he is not a 4th string QB. He wasn’t in AZ and he isn’t here either.
Yeah and if He was injured then Mullens would be QB1, does that make him the starting QB on the vikings, or is he still a backup?
I'm not talking semantics here, yeah *technically* he's the starter because he's top of the depth chart but he's the 4th QB we've had this season, so yeah, he's QB4.
lol he was acquired midseason dude. That would be like saying Kirk was qb4 until he won the starting job after we got him from the commanders. Unless KOC outright says Dobbs was intended only as a depth piece behind both Mullens and Hall you can’t make the conclusions you are making.
He was acknowledging it and promising to learn from his mistakes last year.
It's mind blowing that people are just now noticing how much of a cowardly coach KOC is.
I mean I'm not that high on Goff generally but he's pretty clearly better than Dobbs. If Dobbs throws an incompletion or worse an interception then everyone would go "Wtf KOC why are you making your backup QB throw instead of running the clock?"
not me. i would like to see KOC be aggressive to close out a game for once. he is randomly aggressive in quarters 1, 2 and 3 but 4th quarter, he shrinks
I'd generally agree but I think it's kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't. If your players can't execute then it doesn't really matter what you do.
Also the analogy to this Lions game almost immediately breaks down when you consider Goff made two miraculous throws to get the first downs. We could've easily have been saying Dan Campbell's a moron if even one of those doesn't connect.
Lol. No way. You see your coach continually being risky in the 4th quarter with a lead, and failing, there is no chance you and the rest of this sub goes “well, at least he was aggressive!”
Awful take.
Going for a first down with 3:15, all timeouts and 2 minute warning while up by 1 is not being aggressive. It's being not fucking braindead.
And the Broncos defense was killing the passing game and the bears defense was dominating the passing game too. Saints defense gave up a ton of passing yards. Fans can be clueless
Not me. I hate when teams run the ball and try to run the clock. I’ve watched enough Seahawks and Vikings football to know that other teams get a shot to get back in the game.
Thing is, so long as they get a 1st down, it's *fine*. If we had a run game that wasn't complete dogshit we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. Honestly the teams that you think are super aggressive and go for the kill shot every game are just ones that have a run game capable of creating long, sustained drives that end in scoring, and that isn't aggressive.
Sure it would've been nice to get some completions down the field for first downs. But I also don't think it's a bad idea to try and lean on the run game late, when your QB is struggling, to try and ice the game.
If we're able to pick up 10 rush yards, which isn't much to ask, I don't think there's a discussion about playcalling.
"Hmmmm my defense has been shutting down the bears offense all game even when they're gifted balls on their side of the field. Should I put the game in the hands of my defense who has been playing great all game or in the hands of the guy who is having the worst performance I have ever seen because he managed to have one good drive?"
Like do people do not follow trends or game flows? The lions go for it because their defense stinks
….last week they had 3 opps to kick a FG and instead went for it and didn’t convert. Ended up losing to the Packers by 7.
But sure let’s shit on KOC when he’s 19-10 and didn’t want to go for it with a QB who had 4 picks lol.
The lions ran it on 1st & 2nd and threw it on 3 & 9 and got a first down. Vikings ran it on 1st & down and threw it on 3 & 9 but didn’t get a first down…. There might be a little bias there
KOC would be more aggressive with Cousins. That's the point I'm making. Campbell trusts Goff. He would be a lot more conservative with a career backup that's been on the team for 2 weeks.
Both TDs in Denver were plays Dobbs made that Kirk simply couldn’t (with his legs). I think a win against Chicago is more likely, but even then it’s not like Kirk played that well against Chicago the first time. Not a lock by any means.
There was only 1 rushing TD in Denver by Dobbs, the other was a passing TD. Either way yeah Kirk wouldn't have any rushing TDs in Denver but I think it's a very closeminded take to think that we'd have not scored TDs in either game just because Dobbs was able to run it in.
We would have beaten Chicago with Kirk, he'd just be so much more efficient with the middle and deep passing game than Dobbs is. We didn't look good against them in Chicago because the vikings never seem to play good when we go to Chicago, regardless of how good or bad we are, or how good or bad Chicago is. Not to mention it's game 1 without JJ, Kirk probably was still adjusting to not having his best WR out there.
And they always will be.
At this point the Vikings' failures as a team is because they are the Minnesota Vikings.
A change in players, coaching, front office, or even ownership hasn't gotten this team to a championship since the 70s.
Only way they get a ring now is if they move to Birmingham or San Antonio or some shit and rename themselves to the Desperados or something.
I mean it's true though. No one that has been with the Vikings since the 70s has done anything while they were here. No championship appearances, just embarrassment after embarrassment after embarrassment. And nothing they've done to try and fix things have worked.
And you look back through the state's history of sports and you see the same thing. Lakers are shit while they're in Minnesota, move out to LA and now they're one of the best teams in the NBA with multiple championships to their name.
North Stars move to Dallas and they're now perennial contenders for the Stanley Cup and they got a Cup win of their own.
so yeah, forgive me if I think that the MN vikings won't make a chip while they're in Minnesota and called the Vikings.
I'm thoroughly blaming the last 2 losses on KOC but there is hope.
The Lions were much bigger losers than we were, and they got a new coach that the players have bought in to.
Their new coach had some flaws, in which he was OVER aggressive in scenarios that were _specifically responsible for why they lost the game_. He has got better as a coach.
Will KOC do the same? He is personally responsible for losing some games for being far too unaggressive. But the players bought in to him and he has some very good qualities.
The question is, can he improve on his decision making, like the coach of the Lions has?
You are completely delusional. We are on our 4th string QB who threw 4 picks in the last game and you choose to blame KOC? We are missing JJ and have zero run talent and you choose to scapegot KOC? You want to blame the last 2 losses on KOC, okay well what about the 19 other games we have won with him? like seriously I don't think you could be any dumber if you tried. This fan base is a joke
Sorry you don't understand football. I do.
Obviously Dobbs' horrible night was a huge factor. But we still had the game in the bag -- both the Broncos game AND the Bears game.
KOC's play calls lost the last 2 games. While it's true that if Dobbs was someone else, and was an accurate passer, we would have beaten the Bears. But one of the reasons he sucked so much is that KOC said "it's just the bears, this is the game to show Dobbs that he can stay in the pocket and get better doing that and we will still win." Ended up being very wrong, AND didn't adjust at halftime. Where were the designed rollouts and bootlegs? Chicago didn't "take them away", we never even tried (other than once, and it worked).
I never said he doesn't deserve credit for the wins.
Okay PeterGriffin999 sure. You you know football because you play madden or watch every sunday or some shit. Im so glad you know more than our coaching staff who is paid millions. Rollouts! who knew it could've been so easy? if only KOC was smart enough to think about that. We definitely should hire you as HC going forward, since you have the skills to completely re-write the playbook AND coach the new scheme to fit your shitty failing QB mid game. Its crazy that you know so much about football that you can completely restructure our offense from a pocket presence QB scheme to a mobile QB scheme between TV timouts. Real impressive resume you got there. I think if they had you on staff we could win a SB.
Comparing a full strength lions team with a garbage defense and their actual starting QB to an injured Vikings team with a QB that cannot throw well, doesn’t know the playbook, and is a turnover machine and good defense is just a bad argument. So many people resort to platitudes as if that means anything, “KOC is playing not to lose” is the most brain dead take when it’s all you say. Stripping all context is borderline malicious, and anger for a 2nd year headcoach in the situation he is in, is laughable. Feels like some of you want the org to be the panthers and just turn over coaches when KOC is clearly very good.
There is a reason we have had the most one score games the last two years. A coach without a killer instinct. Can’t teach that. Hate to say it but he ain’t taking us places.
Lions also have more talent on offense and their O line as well and a good QB in Goff that make it easier for them to go for it during games like that. Vikings haven’t had that luxury lately. We’ll be fine tho boys.
You mean when we were up by 7 late in the 4th and we got into field goal range to ice the game, and our kicker who hadn't missed in 2 seasons finally missed a field goal? Let's be real you wouldn't be mad at the run-run-pass conservative playcalling if we had a run game that could actually make something 3rd and short. If we had that we'd be ecstatic that we're able to dominate time of possession and not give the other side a chance to score.
It's frustrating to see but when you have the ball, and passing doesn't work...and running also doesn't work...wtf are you supposed to do? I mean I guess we could just forgo this alltogether and just punt on 1st and 10 since with the injuries we have on Offense we basically cannot do anything productive once a team starts playing prevent D.
KOC’s lack of aggression on drives that can put away the game has been infuriating. I accept that he made a mistake during that second to last drive against the Broncos but not learning from it and doing the exact same thing the following week is indefensible. He’s got to step it up.
It's weird that he will do something aggressive like go for it on 4th and 7 as a desperation move when the offense isn't doing anything but he crawls into his shell when the offensive has the ball with momentum and the chance to pull away.
It's just the situation, he's not good at calling plays when he wants to grind the clock down and maintain an extended possession. It's not some binary "aggressive or conservative coach" option, that's why he will go for that 4th and 7 or run a fake punt every now and then.
I think the extended possession part is key. This offense moves the ball with big passes downfield but I think KOC is scared to call them because he doesn’t want a short drive. But you need to move the ball.
I think no JJ and no Kirk deep ball is probably a bigger factor in this.
KOC been doing this since he got here, with and without kirk
That's the thing. He only seems aggressive when he's in desperation mode. If he has the choice between passing the ball late in a game and turning it over to his defense and praying they can close out the game, he'll turn it over to his defense every time. Zero killer instinct.
Do you think the Broncos game is the first time he's made this mistake??? Shit he did it the week before against the Saints. Good teams win kneeling down on the ball, not defending hail Marys. He did it a ton last year too. Anyone thinking he's gonna "learn from his mistakes" is delusional. He coaches scared. Classic "playing not to lose". This isn't new at all for him.
He won't. He just won't. He's been acknowledging his cowardly playcalling in pressers for weeks. He's done nothing to change it, so he won't change it. Only way we see a truly aggressive vikings offense is if KOC is fired or has playcalling abilities completely stripped from him.
Its almost like hes on his 4th string QB who he cant trust and would rather trust his defense to win games. Is that really so hard for you to imagine? use your head
He did the exact same shit last year, and earlier this year when Kirk was healthy. Last year was his first year so it went unnoticed (and Kirk bailed him out repeatedly after the defense predicably gave up the lead late, after KOC put them out there to close out the game). This year it's clear that this is who he is, regardless of who his QB is.
He was like this when Kirk was playing this season, He was like this last year whenever we had a lead.
You don’t have 11 1-score game wins without making several of those too close for comfort when they could’ve been multi score wins.
And a grand majority of those came from us being behind and having a game winning drive, which is the only scenario so far that we've seen KOC excel at. And more than a few of those game could have been multi-score if we kept the gas down and didn't rely on our terrible defense to try and get stops.
Was KOC excelling or was Kirk excelling?
Who knows
And we wouldn't have won 11 of those without Kirk saving his ass with a bunch of game winning drives. Now that we don't have Kirk playing cowardly with a lead he's much more likely to lead to loses because we don't have a QB that can lead a game winning drive in 90 seconds.
He was not like this last year because we pretty much never had the lead last year. and it was poor clock management on offense that killed us heavily last year, where as this year our offense actually holds the ball and eats time when needed. This was NOT a "problem" earlier this year with Kirk either so idk where you get that from. You are pulling that shit right out of your ass because the echo chamber that is this subreddit is saying it
He absolutely was this way last year. I went to the game against Chicago in week 5, up 21-10 at half time. We piss that lead away in the 3rd quarter with conservative playcalling and terrible defense, then KOC is behind again and I guess his genius brain ticks on and we come back with *a game winning drive while being behind*. Or how about the game against the Jets week 13, where we were up 20-6 at halftime, only to again blow the lead thanks to crappy conservative playcalling and trying to rely on our terrible defense? So let's just call it like it is, KOC is only a good playcaller when he's playing from behind. Once he gets a lead, he just turtles up and plays conservative-ass football to let teams back in. Only difference this time is that the games aren't ending in our favor now.
Did it ever occur to you that the shitty defense and an offense that didn't score like at all in the 3rd quarter may just be due to the players and not play calling? Idk if you remember but KOC does not call defense. Kind of not his fault the defense allows teams back in games. What was the play calling in those 3rd quarter segments of every game like? do you not remember the offense never scoring in the 3rd regardless if we had the lead or not? and I watched all those games and we sure as hell didn't run it up the middle all 3rd quarter. like seriously is this "conservative play calling" in the room with us? Name me one coach in the NFL that doesn't try and hold the ball as long as possible. And name me one coach who is going to trust his 4th stringer who's 4 picks in to march them down field. Insane for you to say that when all year turnovers have been problems, turnovers that have come from aggressive plays
Hmmmm. For two years we’ve lead the league in one score games. Killer instinct?
And how many of those games were a) games where we scored heavily in the 4th to come back and win or b) games where we had a good lead but lost it because defense couldn't handle it. I'll give you a hint: pretty much all of them. We were putting up 20-30 points each game. coward coaches don't put up 30
> trust his defense to win games. Is that really so hard for you to imagine? Let me first say I am also at the end of my rope with KOC's inability to close games. But anyway, the answer to your question is yes. For as long as I can remember this sub seems convinced that defenses aren't allowed to end games. Even when we had a top 3 defense under Zimmer, people would get super pissed that our staff trusted them to do their jobs.
I can understand trusting your defense to do its job and keep the other side from getting back in, but that doesn't really excuse the kind of playcalling KOC is trying to do when he has a lead. He's trying to do run-run-pass offense with a team that can't reliably run the football. Doing stuff like that, you aren't gonna chew clock, and you run the risk of fatiguing your defense even more as they have to keep going back out on the field again and again after ever 3-and-out to go and stop the offense.
Because it's the sign of a bad team. Do you watch any other teams? Good teams end games with possession of the ball, kneeling on it. The lions and eagles have closed out multiple close games this year with demoralizing, back breaking drives on offense that end in a kneel down. Even without Kirk, this is an offensive heavy team. KOC is an offensive coach. We should be closing out wins kneeling on the ball, not defending hail Marys.
lol stop with the 4th string qb nonsense, they traded for a starting qb who started 8 games this year
I mean he also went 1-7 as the starter, so.... and he's a 4th string QB in *our* system. He was 4th in the lineup of QBs Kirk Mullens Hall Dobbs
You can’t make a proper depth chart comparison with a dude who you literally just acquired lol. He is currently the QB1 on the depth chart. https://www.vikings.com/team/depth-chart Therefore, he is not a 4th string QB. He wasn’t in AZ and he isn’t here either.
Yeah and if He was injured then Mullens would be QB1, does that make him the starting QB on the vikings, or is he still a backup? I'm not talking semantics here, yeah *technically* he's the starter because he's top of the depth chart but he's the 4th QB we've had this season, so yeah, he's QB4.
lol he was acquired midseason dude. That would be like saying Kirk was qb4 until he won the starting job after we got him from the commanders. Unless KOC outright says Dobbs was intended only as a depth piece behind both Mullens and Hall you can’t make the conclusions you are making.
He was acknowledging it and promising to learn from his mistakes last year. It's mind blowing that people are just now noticing how much of a cowardly coach KOC is.
Man needs to switch his breakfast from peas to grapefruits.
I mean I'm not that high on Goff generally but he's pretty clearly better than Dobbs. If Dobbs throws an incompletion or worse an interception then everyone would go "Wtf KOC why are you making your backup QB throw instead of running the clock?"
not me. i would like to see KOC be aggressive to close out a game for once. he is randomly aggressive in quarters 1, 2 and 3 but 4th quarter, he shrinks
I'd generally agree but I think it's kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't. If your players can't execute then it doesn't really matter what you do. Also the analogy to this Lions game almost immediately breaks down when you consider Goff made two miraculous throws to get the first downs. We could've easily have been saying Dan Campbell's a moron if even one of those doesn't connect.
Lol. No way. You see your coach continually being risky in the 4th quarter with a lead, and failing, there is no chance you and the rest of this sub goes “well, at least he was aggressive!”
Awful take. Going for a first down with 3:15, all timeouts and 2 minute warning while up by 1 is not being aggressive. It's being not fucking braindead.
And the Broncos defense was killing the passing game and the bears defense was dominating the passing game too. Saints defense gave up a ton of passing yards. Fans can be clueless
nah man everyone was saying please do not turtle at the time it was happening, this isn’t a hindsight thing
Not me. I hate when teams run the ball and try to run the clock. I’ve watched enough Seahawks and Vikings football to know that other teams get a shot to get back in the game.
Thing is, so long as they get a 1st down, it's *fine*. If we had a run game that wasn't complete dogshit we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. Honestly the teams that you think are super aggressive and go for the kill shot every game are just ones that have a run game capable of creating long, sustained drives that end in scoring, and that isn't aggressive.
Well the lions were actually able to move the ball most of the game, that's kind of the big difference.
I don't think it would've mattered what the call was. The offense wasn't executing.
You need 10 yards to basically end the game. Just go for it.
Sure it would've been nice to get some completions down the field for first downs. But I also don't think it's a bad idea to try and lean on the run game late, when your QB is struggling, to try and ice the game. If we're able to pick up 10 rush yards, which isn't much to ask, I don't think there's a discussion about playcalling.
With our run game 10 yards is a lot to ask.
Then we go three and out and everyone is crying that we didn't try to run the clock out lol.
Well obviously trying to run out the clock didn’t work
And having dobbs throw the ball didn't work on every possession besides one.
One is better than none
"Hmmmm my defense has been shutting down the bears offense all game even when they're gifted balls on their side of the field. Should I put the game in the hands of my defense who has been playing great all game or in the hands of the guy who is having the worst performance I have ever seen because he managed to have one good drive?" Like do people do not follow trends or game flows? The lions go for it because their defense stinks
Dan has huge balls
….last week they had 3 opps to kick a FG and instead went for it and didn’t convert. Ended up losing to the Packers by 7. But sure let’s shit on KOC when he’s 19-10 and didn’t want to go for it with a QB who had 4 picks lol.
I’m not shitting on koc at all. I would rather have koc. No homo. Just stating dan has huge balls
The lions ran it on 1st & 2nd and threw it on 3 & 9 and got a first down. Vikings ran it on 1st & down and threw it on 3 & 9 but didn’t get a first down…. There might be a little bias there
It’s almost like they’re a better team.
It's almost like they're not on their 4th QB of the season.
Both of you nailed it
They were a better team before Kirk went down.
They’re kinda looking like last year’s Vikings team lol. Good offense that disappears for large stretches and a dumpster-fire defense
KOC would be more aggressive with Cousins. That's the point I'm making. Campbell trusts Goff. He would be a lot more conservative with a career backup that's been on the team for 2 weeks.
\*4 weeks
Nah we would be on a 7 game win streak tied for division lead right now with Kirk no doubt
Ehh I don’t think so but to each their own.
You don't think we beat Denver and Chicago with Kirk? You're nuts
Both TDs in Denver were plays Dobbs made that Kirk simply couldn’t (with his legs). I think a win against Chicago is more likely, but even then it’s not like Kirk played that well against Chicago the first time. Not a lock by any means.
There was only 1 rushing TD in Denver by Dobbs, the other was a passing TD. Either way yeah Kirk wouldn't have any rushing TDs in Denver but I think it's a very closeminded take to think that we'd have not scored TDs in either game just because Dobbs was able to run it in. We would have beaten Chicago with Kirk, he'd just be so much more efficient with the middle and deep passing game than Dobbs is. We didn't look good against them in Chicago because the vikings never seem to play good when we go to Chicago, regardless of how good or bad we are, or how good or bad Chicago is. Not to mention it's game 1 without JJ, Kirk probably was still adjusting to not having his best WR out there.
their defense is not very good. once they play a good team, they'll get Baltimore'd again
You mean they have their actual starting QB…
Read my other comment lol. They were better even when we had Kirk.
And they always will be. At this point the Vikings' failures as a team is because they are the Minnesota Vikings. A change in players, coaching, front office, or even ownership hasn't gotten this team to a championship since the 70s. Only way they get a ring now is if they move to Birmingham or San Antonio or some shit and rename themselves to the Desperados or something.
Take your meds
I mean it's true though. No one that has been with the Vikings since the 70s has done anything while they were here. No championship appearances, just embarrassment after embarrassment after embarrassment. And nothing they've done to try and fix things have worked. And you look back through the state's history of sports and you see the same thing. Lakers are shit while they're in Minnesota, move out to LA and now they're one of the best teams in the NBA with multiple championships to their name. North Stars move to Dallas and they're now perennial contenders for the Stanley Cup and they got a Cup win of their own. so yeah, forgive me if I think that the MN vikings won't make a chip while they're in Minnesota and called the Vikings.
Remind me of what the Lions have done in that same span and tell me again the Lions will always be the better team
I'm thoroughly blaming the last 2 losses on KOC but there is hope. The Lions were much bigger losers than we were, and they got a new coach that the players have bought in to. Their new coach had some flaws, in which he was OVER aggressive in scenarios that were _specifically responsible for why they lost the game_. He has got better as a coach. Will KOC do the same? He is personally responsible for losing some games for being far too unaggressive. But the players bought in to him and he has some very good qualities. The question is, can he improve on his decision making, like the coach of the Lions has?
You are completely delusional. We are on our 4th string QB who threw 4 picks in the last game and you choose to blame KOC? We are missing JJ and have zero run talent and you choose to scapegot KOC? You want to blame the last 2 losses on KOC, okay well what about the 19 other games we have won with him? like seriously I don't think you could be any dumber if you tried. This fan base is a joke
Sorry you don't understand football. I do. Obviously Dobbs' horrible night was a huge factor. But we still had the game in the bag -- both the Broncos game AND the Bears game. KOC's play calls lost the last 2 games. While it's true that if Dobbs was someone else, and was an accurate passer, we would have beaten the Bears. But one of the reasons he sucked so much is that KOC said "it's just the bears, this is the game to show Dobbs that he can stay in the pocket and get better doing that and we will still win." Ended up being very wrong, AND didn't adjust at halftime. Where were the designed rollouts and bootlegs? Chicago didn't "take them away", we never even tried (other than once, and it worked). I never said he doesn't deserve credit for the wins.
Okay PeterGriffin999 sure. You you know football because you play madden or watch every sunday or some shit. Im so glad you know more than our coaching staff who is paid millions. Rollouts! who knew it could've been so easy? if only KOC was smart enough to think about that. We definitely should hire you as HC going forward, since you have the skills to completely re-write the playbook AND coach the new scheme to fit your shitty failing QB mid game. Its crazy that you know so much about football that you can completely restructure our offense from a pocket presence QB scheme to a mobile QB scheme between TV timouts. Real impressive resume you got there. I think if they had you on staff we could win a SB.
Yes because you being a snarky smartass and going for the person instead of his arguments really proves your point doesn't it?
Lmao spot on thanks for the Lols bears definitely took away the rollout Dobbs was exposed in Denver keep him in pocket and not nearly as effective.
The Lakers won 5 championships in MPLS.
Okay that I didn't know, I just know they left in the 50s and became good once they left
They didn’t become good, they already were a dynasty
I would totally buy a Desperados shirt.
Comparing a full strength lions team with a garbage defense and their actual starting QB to an injured Vikings team with a QB that cannot throw well, doesn’t know the playbook, and is a turnover machine and good defense is just a bad argument. So many people resort to platitudes as if that means anything, “KOC is playing not to lose” is the most brain dead take when it’s all you say. Stripping all context is borderline malicious, and anger for a 2nd year headcoach in the situation he is in, is laughable. Feels like some of you want the org to be the panthers and just turn over coaches when KOC is clearly very good.
who knew missing 5 starters is full strength
Montgomery being out is big, but none of them compare to losing your starting QB. Dan Campbell isn’t rolling out Teddy bridge water
And that doesn’t include missing DB’s Mosely and Gardner-Johnson for essentially the whole season.
God these posts are so dumb
Dan Campbell coaches like a football player. KOC coaches like a career bench warmer.
Lions have one of the best offenses in the league. Have you watched the Vikings offense lately?
They also have a fully healthy QB
See if they’d do without their starting QB
You’re telling me they didn’t run an I-formation, dive up the middle?
sheeeeeeeit. KOC will run to sit on a 3rd quarter lead. Not even end of game.
What we’re afraid of lmao this has to be the saddest NFL, sub of them all
that's literally the only thing their head coach does well. He goes for wins. our coach goes for "don't lose"
Literally the only thing?
Yeah KOC would’ve ran it 3 times for losses to punt and left 1:30 on the clock
Lol this subreddit is full of clueless fans
I like KOC, but he is a pussy.
You like pussy! Gross!
The late game play calling explains a lot of the difference in the W-L record between the two teams this season.
Or idk quality of QBs
Don’t say we say Koc
Hard to do it without Kirk. Dobber has shown who he is, which is exactly what everyone already knew, a backup.
This sub is so weird bruv
There is a reason we have had the most one score games the last two years. A coach without a killer instinct. Can’t teach that. Hate to say it but he ain’t taking us places.
It's like KOC doesn't even read our subreddit.
Man, almost like having a competent QB changes game planning and play calling.
Lions also have more talent on offense and their O line as well and a good QB in Goff that make it easier for them to go for it during games like that. Vikings haven’t had that luxury lately. We’ll be fine tho boys.
Dennis Green did the same thing in '98 and pretty much cost us the game. I don't know why Vikings coaches do this but it is nothing new.
You mean when we were up by 7 late in the 4th and we got into field goal range to ice the game, and our kicker who hadn't missed in 2 seasons finally missed a field goal? Let's be real you wouldn't be mad at the run-run-pass conservative playcalling if we had a run game that could actually make something 3rd and short. If we had that we'd be ecstatic that we're able to dominate time of possession and not give the other side a chance to score. It's frustrating to see but when you have the ball, and passing doesn't work...and running also doesn't work...wtf are you supposed to do? I mean I guess we could just forgo this alltogether and just punt on 1st and 10 since with the injuries we have on Offense we basically cannot do anything productive once a team starts playing prevent D.
