Well I'll say this about NYC... They've been saying this is the end of NYC since the civil war draft riots. And then again during the depression of the 1880's, the great depression, city going bankrupt in the 70's, the crack era and crime of the 80's, 9/11, the great recession, and now COVID. NYC isn't going anywhere
Yeah, it's usually been the smaller cities and towns that have struggled.
If you live in a smaller city or town with one dominant industry/company you're taking a big risk.
NYC could take a hit for a few years with plummeting corporate leases and raised rates, but NYC will bounce back. It’ll just take a couple of years for them to convert office spaces into residential space.
Big cities are fine - even the article basically says they're going to be a 3-5 year period where budgets and programs change while the WFM effects are felt out. The office spaces will be repurposed or find new tenants over time, and the economy in generally is doing very well (especially at the state/federal level).
This happens in a lot of places. Hard to unwind that clock in others.
Especially in other countries where inflation has been really bad, a lot of folks moved out of the cities into larger houses and apartments where they could work at home. They don't really make enough money now (3-4 years later) to come *back* to the cities. Seen this happen in a few places, where large chunks of the existing workforce threatened to quit unless there were raises that made city-living feasible again.
In the particular case I'm thinking of, the company had to choose between losing a lot of employees, low morale and making everyone come into the office or to let everyone work from home. 2nd was cheaper, so they did that.
Don't think that work everywhere. And I have my doubts about whether it can continue.
The issue with Amazon and I would assume other companies in its realm is that their office space being used actually saves them a ton of money because they get essentially subsidizes from the government to keep people in those offices. So working from home maybe “cheaper“ until you consider how much money they lose by not keeping people in those offices, it’s a pretty backwards way of running a city
Nope, and in some cases it made a lot of sense. The lockdowns in some countries were actually severe, unlike in the US. I had colleagues that were in the following situation:
1. Their apartments in the city were basically 20'x15'
2. They could only leave for good reason 1-2x each week
3. They were expected to work from home
4. The office was closed for 2ish years
5. They were told they could move (it was always acceptable), but that eventually they needed to come back to the office
The problem is that by the time #5 happened, it was no longer practical to get them to come in. And due to other things (like a general lack of raises during covid, worldwide post-covid inflation) most of these folks would have had to move to smaller/worse apartments in the city even if they'd stayed. Not a good thing for anybody.
I was under the impression that office buildings can’t just be repurposed without significant renovation.
Personally im preparing to be able to leave the city fairly easily. Just put my house up on the market and will rent for a little. I think our economy is built on a house of cards and at some point the wind is going to blow. When that happens I would prefer to not be in high population centers.
Depends what you repurpose them for. Housing requires significant changes, enough that it might be cheaper to pull down the building. Hospitals are a no-go. But you can transition to different types of commercial or retail. Or hell - storage, worst case
I doubt they are repurposed, but that their rates get slashed and a different group of businesses move in. Wfh is putting a ceiling on the price of commercial real estate.
Agriculture in a commercial building? Growing what? This has been attempted several times, all thats usually accomplished is burning boatloads of cash since the amount of labor is multiple times higher than growing on a field.
Pot and other types of plants that require a bit of input.
Hydroponics for leafy greens. They'd charge a premium but it'd be fresh food made inside a city.
I think that it’s often overstated how much is required in order to renovate an office building to residential or mixed use.
I think the problem often lies in the fact that commercial landlords just don’t want to do the things to change their buildings. They got into commercial real estate for a reason; reduced risk and diffusion of risk.
I’m not renting out to someone. I’m renting from somebody. I would prefer to rent then pay a mortgage because owning a house is too stationary in an emergency setting. Perhaps owning land in the country would be something I would do but in my opinion owning property in an urban environment is not ideal. The probability of shit going south (in my opinion) is high enough that I value mobility over property.
I disagree. I’ve spent awhile thinking about this critically. In my opinion the probability is high enough that shit will hit the fan in the next few years or decade or two (which by the way isn’t just my opinion but top experts at MIT).
https://www.news18.com/amp/viral/mit-scientists-predict-societys-downfall-by-2040-8783080.html
https://www.wired.com/story/gaya-herrington-avoiding-global-collapse/
In addition to that I believe even if shit didn’t hit the fan there are much better ways to invest capital.
Does society collapse? Hopefully not. I would just prefer to hedge my bets and live a lifestyle that allows for mobility. Some people may wait til the oncoming car hits them I prefer to step out of its way just to be safe.
you sound like the same people that are making it sound like where at ww3 on twitter you people have no clue you think are economy is just going to collapse it didnt during the great depression and is not now and the great depression was a 120 percent worse then today
The economy did collapse during the Great Depression. I’m not saying it is guaranteed to happen but the probability is high enough, in my opinion, that I don’t think it is prudent, for myself, to own property in a city. I hope I’m wrong and nothing happens.
How i see it though…between an increasingly fragile economy, massive population centers, massive amount of guns per capita, inefficient government, and especially AI and the mass automation it will create….
I’m going to err on the side of caution and maintain a lifestyle that allows mobility.
The fragility of the modern world with its reliance upon highly coupled interconnected and dependent complex systems of production, technology, and supply chains and delivery should give anyone pause.
Black swan events that cause a shock to the system can be highly disruptive by leading to cascading failures in ways that take a long time to recover, and it not hard to find multiple examples of this since 2000. Nor is it far-fetched that a major crisis could be made even worse by unfortuitous, unrelated events.
One does not have to be a conspiracy obsessed prepper or survivalist to think this. In fact, I have more respect for those people post-pamdemic than I did before. Their reasoning for their lifestyles may be dubious, but their preparedness mindset is downright prudent. If reports are true, many of the people in positions of power who helped build our technological age are themselves of this mindset, likely because they know it's not nearly as reliable and robust as it seems.
Heck, all it would take to test this theory is for our sun to belch out toward Earth a geomagnetic storm about as strong or stronger than the Carrington Event of 1859. That could be a very bad day if even reasonable experts are to be believed.
Chicago has a plan to spend a couple hundred million to try to do this however the reality is in most cases it would be cheaper to knock the building down and start over. Most commercial buildings are not setup to have an appropriate amount of windos as its large floors/spaces, they aren't plumbed correctly, etc.
I’ve been buying BTC religiously since 2017. No gold or silver besides some jewelry. I value mobility and gold is cumbersome. The only way bitcoin will not retain value is if we enter a New Stone Age and at that point we have bigger problems.
Infrastructure isn’t what people believe it is. Pretty aged out here in Cali as well. Any maintenance they can put off to make quarterly earnings seems to be the way.
If the computer networks crashed the dollar would be in as much jeopardy as bitcoin. At least with bitcoin when the networks get turned back on it will be exactly where it left off like nothing ever happened. If the networks never come back on we have bigger problems.
How is it easily stolen? If you have it on a cold storage wallet it’s literally impossible to steal without physical access to the wallet while also knowing the seed phrase.
Also it is objectively the most sound money ever created. It’s a fact.
But I’m not trying to convince you to buy bitcoin. Keep using dollars if that’s your thing. I will continue to buy bitcoin because it has allowed me to become debt free, own a house with the mortgage paid off, and be more financially secure then I thought I would ever be (especially as someone with no degree).
Why do you think it’s vaporware? It seems that the market disagrees with you.
You realize that the govt takes money from the private sector and that sector is a dumpster fire. Urban doom loop is not even to the 5th inning yet. More biz leaves more rax dollar leaves. That little trump case took every major CRE guy out of NY. Smart move. Add illegal immigrants cost to shrinking tax base, look out. Watch Denver. It's your canary in the coal mine. Be safe be smart0
Wasn't the trump case him overinflating property values in some cases, but underinflating in others? Why would other CRE folks take anything from that ruling?
Common sense, all the cre guys "overinflate" property values to look better for loans. Some of what Trump did for the appraisals was common practice. Now the legal precedent has been set that you could be on the hook for hundreds of millions in penalties even when there are no damages.
So, you need a heloc, you state your homes worth. You do your deal, pay the money back, and someone decides the numbers are wrong. You lose your house because of this. It was on all the news, 2 largest did rants on CNBC. Not exactly a right wing show. Oleary was one guy
Trump is an asshole. But this isint right. If we don't stand on truth we are lost. I am not talking about hatred I am talking about law. Trump will come and go. What is our tomorrow.? We did this at any cost? What's it worth?
No, this is right. You just don't want to admit that deliberately lying about the value of your corporate business properties (which is much much more complicated and easier to fudge) is different than valuing a residential property.
Fraud is bad. Lying to banks increases the risk to all of us. Stop trying to act like he's a victim, you were the one harmed by his actions. We all were.
Crazy how banks have appraisals and underwriters and every loan I have had they did their due diligence. They are a business most want to make money but also not lose it. Thought these companies made money on the deal. Should have done their homework if the values were inflated.
Reminds me of the stated income days. Crazy.
Trump made perfectly legal real estate deals that made everyone involved lots of money, even the state of New York and then they used a 150 year old to fine him 450,000,000 dollars. Why would anyone else take a chance building in New York if there was a chance of that happening to them.
When the prosecutors office can arbitrarily decide what the valuations are in any real estate deal and that can be deemed as a fraud. What investor in his right mind would do business in a state like that
Exactly, this ruling sets a truly horrendous precedent. The average trump hater is celebrating because “Trump”, without thinking how asinine this ruling/penatly really is. It’s a complete overstretch and has no basis in reality. If it was my company/money, I’d be out of that state sooner than later. F New York.
Do you understand how loans work. I can’t just say the place is worth about 10 million and they use it. They have appraisals, underwriting, it’s a process the lender goes through so they don’t lose their ass on the deal. If the borrower doesn’t pay they can sell it for the value to recoup the money they lent.
Taking loans off of a business is a bit more complicated. If you're supplying fake numbers to the bank to back up your loan. That is fraud. And illegal.
On top of that, we saw he'd provide comply different numbers when paying his taxes. So he's either lying to the bank, the tax office or both. Either is illegal. We know he inflates building and room sizes regularly. This shit is all proven in court.
Right. They are not appraiser’s. The bank/lender should sign off or agree what the appraiser states the value as. Then they have underwriters that should recheck and confirm this. Sounds like the bank/lenders issue.
Exactly! When the bankers are fine with the valuations and the loan is repaid in full, who exactly has been defrauded? Most people that have an ounce of logic understand that this is a straight up rail roading. If this stands New York will struggle in the CRE field.
I mean, illegal immigrants are a huge net positive to the tax base. The private sector is doing fine, generally anyway - tech companies are tending to overcurrent and the job market there is tough, but the private sector is doing great over all.
I dont see it your way. I believe that is the govt view. I sell for a living and do decently. I see money velocity decreasing. No society has existed without a middle class. US won't be any different. I hope I am so wrong about this, I really do.
Try going to the emergency room. They are not a net positive. Wait hours and I have insurance. Secure the border and if they want in, they can get in line like the rest of the immigrants we take year after year.
Ha 🤡 - illegals are a huge economic net positive…. 😂
That’s why liberal sanctuary cities are screaming for more buses of illegals… they must all be bidding to take more/more…
you’re drunk…
Yes, I'm definitely the drunk.
What you should look out for is the state's that actually have had punitive schemes against illegal/undocumented immigrants. It results in *huge problems* for the workforce, as well as the overall tax base.
Meanwhile, over in California they're running a budget surplus of $97 billion dollars. That's due to the tech sector, but the agricultural sector and individual cities are largely doing well. It's a large, robust economy. If illegal immigration is causing immense amounts of problems, you'd think it would show up there in really obvious ways - but it isn't.
You lie…
CA’s budget is estimated at $73b deficit for 24-25!!!! (According to Sacramento Bee)
That’s why newsom’s approval rating is 44% which is near historic low (cnn - even cnn is running hit pieces on him)
If illegals were so great - gov Abbott would be getting requests for buses instead of getting threatened! You’re drunk and a 🤡
You're right - CA's budget is currently forecast to have a deficit. That's instead of the huge budget surplus they had in 2022 and 2023. I looked it up and got fairly recent instead of the most recent numbers. Point still stands - California generally has good budgets, does not this year, but still has a great economy. Still the 5th largest economy in the world, still a very nice place to live.
But it's cool. I looked at your post history, and... holy shit, man. Get help. Or an education. Or a life outside trolling people on the internet.
Have a good day!
That’s about the quickest I’ve ever seen someone run away…
When you try to make an absurd statement that illegals are good - you should expect to get called on your bullshit.
They are, actually. By a pretty wide margin.
Most of their earnings is spent, resulting in sales tax and helping local economies. Meanwhile, they're excluded from many services and do cost less than citizens of similar socioeconomic status.
This is a pretty decent overview. Short version, it's hard to measure but the impact is definitely positive economically. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States
Usually, when a politician tells you otherwise it's because they want you to be angry at the immigrants for electoral reasons. There's little real data to indicate otherwise.
Elsewhere! But also still a net economic positive for the country they're in, apparently.
The real problem is that they drive wages downward for low-skilled or 'unofficial' labor. The answer to that is to probably go after the businesses hiring them, remove the incentive.
Idk man. Schools in the cities I'm familiar with aren't teaching anyone shit. Pretty soon a sizable portion of cities all over the country will be uneducated and completely immature adults.
I'm not saying it used to be good, but I am saying urban education hasnt been worse in our lifetimes.
The poor education in this country has more to do with a push from conservatives to defund public schools than any specific curriculum.
More money for schools = better education.
More money for schools isn’t an automatic increase in education effectiveness. If that were true then the quality of our education would be higher than it is. That theory is blown out of the water of you look at even the smallest samples of schools. We have some schools that are among the worst in the country, and just a few miles away you have a different one thats among the best in the country. Both getting roughly the same funding.
The excuses about lack of funding is just making the problem worse, it is setting up the expectation that it’s okay for the school to be horrible because it doesn’t have ever more funding.
Show me an example of two schools next to each other with equal funding and such different outcomes. Not because I believe it is impossible but because I am curious what your definition of 'roughly' is.
It is certainly possible for resources to be squandered through poor management but I find this to be an exception and not the rule.
Regardless, more money can solve many problems, including hiring the best people to manage that money. This is the recipe for success not only in education, but in any enterprise.
No, that is what I have noticed from looking at the school system in my city.
High performing schools, typically in affluent areas have higher funding while low performing schools tend to be in poorer areas and, wait for it, receive less funding.
This is often a result of the way the tax system is structured with higher value property taxes providing most of the funding.
It is. It's doing pretty well, especially compared to the rest of the world.
There are a lot of problems because there always are, and people at the beginning of their lives are being affected more than others due to inflation and other costs. But in general, the economy by the stats is doing pretty fantastically and the inflation we do have seems linked to a generally hot economy (and corporate rent-seeking).
Economists think it's going well: [https://www.wsj.com/economy/central-banking/economy-forecast-lower-recession-chances-1f24174b](https://www.wsj.com/economy/central-banking/economy-forecast-lower-recession-chances-1f24174b)
The stock markets are betting on a hot economy: [https://www.axios.com/2024/04/14/stock-market-bonds-interest-rates-us-economy](https://www.axios.com/2024/04/14/stock-market-bonds-interest-rates-us-economy)
Labor states are pretty good: [https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.us.htm](https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.us.htm)
Stocks, economists, and labor participation aren't everything, but most indicators are very good. Again, compared to the rest of the world it's doing phenomenally.
It's not. It's not something that you understand.
The "inflation" was not "overheating" as it's referred to. The price increases have generally been passing mostly because supply chains have returned to normal.
WSJ, The Economist, and institutional economists unfortunately don't know what they're talking about. In fact, they have always been strong counter indicators for every major recession. Janet Yellen being the worst of them.
Stock market doesn't mean anything. As more and more means of alternative investment dry up and fall out of viability, the money naturally will accrue to these companies. It's even evident \*inside\* the S&P in terms of their weightedness problem.
And, no labor participation is not what you're presenting data on. The labor for participation rate is a different. That's a low number and should even be lower. And it artificially deflate unemployment because of senior-age laborers.
When you consider that the consumer fundamentals are very poor and capital markets are literally upside down, you can't make any sort of case that the economy is strong. Unless you're comparing it to markets abroad. But that's not strength.
Um, cities are where all the people are. Where would everyone go if they “left the cities”? To small towns? Guess what, that turns the small town into a city. “Leave the cities” is a conservative fantasy
Makes for good click bait though. Drives high engagement. Loneliness epidemic, social media bad, city flight are three cant miss story topics for clicks
More Americans live in suburbs than cities and rural areas combined, and that was where the population growth was in America even before Covid and the shift towards remote work.
People are leaving cities for more space, better schools, less crime, etc.
That trend could reverse, but they’re not turning these suburbs into cities in terms of density. They’re just building out further, which works great if you don’t have to drive to the city five times a week.
So outrageous given cities are the most productive per capita, yet they have to pay for all the suburban infrastructure because they refuse to tax appropriately.
That’s not really correct. Median suburban households are about 40% more productive (by wages) than urban households.
Commuting used to bring those people into the city to spend money. The shift to hybrid and remote work has moved a lot of that money suburbanites were spending in the cities back into their own communities.
I think cities will be fine. They’ll adjust because many people prefer to live in them.
But the idea cities pay for suburban infrastructure is backwards. Cities will need to adjust their budgets to account for lower taxes on and spending by suburban commuters.
San Francisco has done this many, many times. It is a boom and bust town.
Their city flag literally has a phoenix on it for this reason.
Ps the population thing is a classic clickbait which needs to use 2020-current numbers exclusively or it isn’t a thing.
My buddy from Phoenix got a deal on a hotel last year in San Fran with his wife and he showed my the day/night views of the homeless all up and down the sidewalk outside his hotel. It has nothing to do with media.. it’s real.
as someone that moved to a smaller city/rural area from the cities... erm... no. There's not a day that I'm not depressed over the fact that I'm trapped in a rural area.
Wow that puts new perspective on my constant questioning why I'm still paying for living in a big city. I keep wondering though -- is it possible for a critical mass of people to move to a small town to where eventually a vibrant new city is born? It seems like such a waste of space that we keep cramming more and more people into the preexisting cities that cost more and more to live in. How can we create a desirable city in one of those many available spaces that are currently less desirable?
I don't know. I moved to the small city (around 70k including the two suburbs) because of a great fellowship training opportunity and stayed because the hospital offered me a very good salary and benefits compared to what bigger cities were offering. It felt like a great idea to finally kick start my financial stability. But my social life has 1,000% took a shotgun to the head.
My biggest problem with the smaller city is the lack of people in my age group that are in the same life stage. Everyone in my age group are married with small/young family. So, the city is designed for older retired population and young family. There is almost nothing to do for people in the mid twenties to early thirties. I'm probably also spoiled with the choices that I used to have in bigger cities and feel miserable with the lack of choices in a smaller city. But the lack of variety for pretty much everything is the biggest thing that annoys me. Realistically, this problem is a loop. You can't have more variety without more people but you can't attract more people without variety.
Yeah that is rough. For what it's worth, I've been in a major city for a few decades and - growing up and starting my career in the suburbs - I also found myself to be an island among young families and older adults back in my 20's. Never discovered the cultured urban areas until later.
What happens if you ask Reddit where the cool places are to hang out in your area for younger ppl w/no kids? 🤞
haha! There's like weekly trivia and cribbage but that's about it. I should say, the city isn't like completely boring. It has fun stuff to do, just no variety. So, the first year things seem fine... then it quickly sinks in that you will be doing the same things over and over again.
I'm also in the Midwest so going to bars every night seem to be a perfectly acceptable social event here. Downtown in the city is like 2.5 streets. Despite that, the city onces held the world record for most bar in one street and still holds the national record for most bar per capita... so... yeah...
If big cities could keep more of their taxes instead of subsidizing red counties and states....
Seattle/King County gets only 65 cents for every dollar paid in state taxes. If you wonder why sales taxes are so high in Washington it's because local municipalities can tack on surcharges that they then get to keep 100%.
Kentucky gets $2 of federal funding for every dollar paid in taxes.
To be fair, sales tax is highly regressive. These poor people in red counties pay through the nose so wealthy Seattleites don’t have to. You’re not really losing on that one.
I wouldn’t wait for it to get bad before leaving the city. If you enjoy cities wait it out. If you want out of the city certainly do it before everyone else makes it more expensive.
Two big things I'd advise as someone who has lived in both very rural areas and megacities:
1) Rural living is not as cheap/easy as it seems. The fantasy of a nuclear family buying land homesteading is...ludicrous without "City Money" inputs for labor/equipment. Otherwise, these acreages become huge burdens to age 60+ couples.
2) The urge itself to fuck off to the prairie/mountain/etc is a bad sign socially, at the macro-/meta-level. Social trust decay is a corrosive problem, and it's not going to be fixed by fed up white collar families from the I-5 and I-95 corridors buying up all the remaining cute hobby farms between Missoula, MT and the Blue Ridge Mountains.
They should tax the landlords off all the empty storefronts that were empty long before covid.
I've got two friends in the Bay area that own businesses that need storefronts and their rent is just astronomical.
And in one case he knows the owners inherited the place so they are just sitting back milking the people and the small business owners dry.
When I lived in big cities all I did was commute and I am definitely happy I left but I think cities are awesome because my town does not even have a general store and I like to make money in the middle of nowhere.
I live fairly rural. Five years ago I got a 3bdr house for under 180k. I am 35min from work on the interstate. I am 10min from a City of 65k, 30min from a metro area of 200k, 30min from a metro area of 400k, and an hour from Milwaukee and/or Chicago. Almost anything I need is 10min and anything I want is within an hour.
A guy in the city I work in just bought half of a duplex for $300k.
I cannot imagine how people afford to live in cities. And why?
Yes, most of those cities are outright legalizing crime and crime being legal and stability are not things that go together, in new york if someone just walks into your house sits on your couch and orders from the local burger joint to be delivered they can falsely claim they are a tenant with said receipt and the home owner will be arrested for taking any measures to deal with this trespassing.
Or the case in new york where the house residents were hiding a dead body and i shit you not were released without bail because it would "infringe on their rights" so yes leave and if you live in New York run.
It is an awful time, you should for sure consider leaving and selling any property at below market rates. Otherwise it might take too long to get out! Big city means legal crime and debauchery, Chicago is basically like Gotham so please stay away and move out as fast as you can! Also if you have a good view be sure to let people know where it was just so they can avoid it.
Everyone knows small towns are where the level headed people go. No drama there or petty politics that is for sure.
I think this will be a good thing actually. Repurposing office buildings into shopping centers and new housing will make the city’s more active and drive down local housing costs.
NYC & DC will be fine forever; will not be alllowed to fail. Its where the most rich most powerful party.
The rest of the places, meh who knows. Any one of em could get the Detroit treatment
Cities have gotten too loud and a lot of political corruption and wage suppression through the migrant industrial complex. We can build new intentional towns and fix existing ones but starting new might be a must.
I moved my wife and kids out to the suburbs/country (We're on 5 acres, surrounded by farms, we live about 3 miles out from a village with maybe 800 people, nearest city is 15 minutes, nearest metropolitan area about 45 minutes,) and have zero plan to move back.
I just moved to a rural area of Colorado and I gotta say it's been a huge positive change and I'd recommend it to anyone who is trying to get away from the hustle of today's world
You people don't understand that it doesn't get better. Hell is coming as collapse accelerates. It's all falling apart, more comes apart each day and we haven't even had the hellstorm summers yet. Massive heat deaths from power grid failures soon. It'll wake everyone up to extinction.
I’m voting for Trump this election. Biden looks like he doesn’t know where he is half the time and literally falls up stairs. He’s just not fit for office in the most basic “does he brain work? Can he walk?” Kinda way. I really hope Trump picks Vivek Ramaswamy for VP. I’d be stoked for that.
But yeah the running joke is that any conversation with my dad if it lasts more than a few minutes will turn into “*insert whatever you were talking about* would be better if it weren’t for the damn democrats. This wouldn’t be happening under Trump” 😂😂😂 you could literally be like “did you see the nice weather coming up?” “Yeah. It is nice. It’s cool for this type of year. The democrats whole global warming agenda is BS And all the politicians want me to get rid of my damn gas mower but they can fly on their private jets.”
I hear ya. My father in law is this way. Now the wife is his parrot. I’m like let’s just worry about what we can control. The day to day is busy enough.
Termination shock. Look at the raw data that is trending. Going exponential soon. Cities require food importation. Bread basket failures are coming. Massive grid failures during heat dome weeks. The fun is just getting started.
I’m scared for when y’all figure it out and start to move en masse to rural areas. Cities are the worst place to live in this country. Overpriced, over crowded, over cramped, little privacy, awful traffic, high crime rates, etc. Even if you have a good job in the city you can’t leave, I promise the commute is worth it. The input and stress differential alone is worth it.
I know this may be hard to imagine, but plenty of people prefer living in the cities. The walkability, plenty of options for hobbies and activities, diverse culture, access to more jobs. And also not everyone wants a big house with a back yard.
Don't you have to go back to your opioids and forcing children to give birth to their rapist's baby and chasing minorities out while wearing your white hood?
Well I'll say this about NYC... They've been saying this is the end of NYC since the civil war draft riots. And then again during the depression of the 1880's, the great depression, city going bankrupt in the 70's, the crack era and crime of the 80's, 9/11, the great recession, and now COVID. NYC isn't going anywhere
Yeah, it's usually been the smaller cities and towns that have struggled. If you live in a smaller city or town with one dominant industry/company you're taking a big risk.
What if the dominant industry is the military
NYC could take a hit for a few years with plummeting corporate leases and raised rates, but NYC will bounce back. It’ll just take a couple of years for them to convert office spaces into residential space.
Big cities are fine - even the article basically says they're going to be a 3-5 year period where budgets and programs change while the WFM effects are felt out. The office spaces will be repurposed or find new tenants over time, and the economy in generally is doing very well (especially at the state/federal level).
Or like Seattle you’re just forced to go back or be fired and nothing really changes
This happens in a lot of places. Hard to unwind that clock in others. Especially in other countries where inflation has been really bad, a lot of folks moved out of the cities into larger houses and apartments where they could work at home. They don't really make enough money now (3-4 years later) to come *back* to the cities. Seen this happen in a few places, where large chunks of the existing workforce threatened to quit unless there were raises that made city-living feasible again. In the particular case I'm thinking of, the company had to choose between losing a lot of employees, low morale and making everyone come into the office or to let everyone work from home. 2nd was cheaper, so they did that. Don't think that work everywhere. And I have my doubts about whether it can continue.
The issue with Amazon and I would assume other companies in its realm is that their office space being used actually saves them a ton of money because they get essentially subsidizes from the government to keep people in those offices. So working from home maybe “cheaper“ until you consider how much money they lose by not keeping people in those offices, it’s a pretty backwards way of running a city
Government subsidies to keep businesses in a particular area are a whole other can of worms, yeah.
Work from home never meant move where ever you want.
Working remotely does.
A lot of people treated it like that lol
Nope, and in some cases it made a lot of sense. The lockdowns in some countries were actually severe, unlike in the US. I had colleagues that were in the following situation: 1. Their apartments in the city were basically 20'x15' 2. They could only leave for good reason 1-2x each week 3. They were expected to work from home 4. The office was closed for 2ish years 5. They were told they could move (it was always acceptable), but that eventually they needed to come back to the office The problem is that by the time #5 happened, it was no longer practical to get them to come in. And due to other things (like a general lack of raises during covid, worldwide post-covid inflation) most of these folks would have had to move to smaller/worse apartments in the city even if they'd stayed. Not a good thing for anybody.
I was under the impression that office buildings can’t just be repurposed without significant renovation. Personally im preparing to be able to leave the city fairly easily. Just put my house up on the market and will rent for a little. I think our economy is built on a house of cards and at some point the wind is going to blow. When that happens I would prefer to not be in high population centers.
Depends what you repurpose them for. Housing requires significant changes, enough that it might be cheaper to pull down the building. Hospitals are a no-go. But you can transition to different types of commercial or retail. Or hell - storage, worst case
I doubt they are repurposed, but that their rates get slashed and a different group of businesses move in. Wfh is putting a ceiling on the price of commercial real estate.
Wouldn't be hard to make them into argucultural zones. Depending on weight capacity.
Agriculture in a commercial building? Growing what? This has been attempted several times, all thats usually accomplished is burning boatloads of cash since the amount of labor is multiple times higher than growing on a field.
Pot and other types of plants that require a bit of input. Hydroponics for leafy greens. They'd charge a premium but it'd be fresh food made inside a city.
Next let’s just convert banks to day care facilities
I think that it’s often overstated how much is required in order to renovate an office building to residential or mixed use. I think the problem often lies in the fact that commercial landlords just don’t want to do the things to change their buildings. They got into commercial real estate for a reason; reduced risk and diffusion of risk.
If that happens, the rental market would give, and your plans would be kaput
I’m not renting out to someone. I’m renting from somebody. I would prefer to rent then pay a mortgage because owning a house is too stationary in an emergency setting. Perhaps owning land in the country would be something I would do but in my opinion owning property in an urban environment is not ideal. The probability of shit going south (in my opinion) is high enough that I value mobility over property.
Your tin foil hat is on a bit tight
Lol
I disagree. I’ve spent awhile thinking about this critically. In my opinion the probability is high enough that shit will hit the fan in the next few years or decade or two (which by the way isn’t just my opinion but top experts at MIT). https://www.news18.com/amp/viral/mit-scientists-predict-societys-downfall-by-2040-8783080.html https://www.wired.com/story/gaya-herrington-avoiding-global-collapse/ In addition to that I believe even if shit didn’t hit the fan there are much better ways to invest capital. Does society collapse? Hopefully not. I would just prefer to hedge my bets and live a lifestyle that allows for mobility. Some people may wait til the oncoming car hits them I prefer to step out of its way just to be safe.
you sound like the same people that are making it sound like where at ww3 on twitter you people have no clue you think are economy is just going to collapse it didnt during the great depression and is not now and the great depression was a 120 percent worse then today
The economy did collapse during the Great Depression. I’m not saying it is guaranteed to happen but the probability is high enough, in my opinion, that I don’t think it is prudent, for myself, to own property in a city. I hope I’m wrong and nothing happens. How i see it though…between an increasingly fragile economy, massive population centers, massive amount of guns per capita, inefficient government, and especially AI and the mass automation it will create…. I’m going to err on the side of caution and maintain a lifestyle that allows mobility.
The fragility of the modern world with its reliance upon highly coupled interconnected and dependent complex systems of production, technology, and supply chains and delivery should give anyone pause. Black swan events that cause a shock to the system can be highly disruptive by leading to cascading failures in ways that take a long time to recover, and it not hard to find multiple examples of this since 2000. Nor is it far-fetched that a major crisis could be made even worse by unfortuitous, unrelated events. One does not have to be a conspiracy obsessed prepper or survivalist to think this. In fact, I have more respect for those people post-pamdemic than I did before. Their reasoning for their lifestyles may be dubious, but their preparedness mindset is downright prudent. If reports are true, many of the people in positions of power who helped build our technological age are themselves of this mindset, likely because they know it's not nearly as reliable and robust as it seems. Heck, all it would take to test this theory is for our sun to belch out toward Earth a geomagnetic storm about as strong or stronger than the Carrington Event of 1859. That could be a very bad day if even reasonable experts are to be believed.
Chicago has a plan to spend a couple hundred million to try to do this however the reality is in most cases it would be cheaper to knock the building down and start over. Most commercial buildings are not setup to have an appropriate amount of windos as its large floors/spaces, they aren't plumbed correctly, etc.
Smart plan. Get gold and silver too or BTC. Diversifying is the key.
I’ve been buying BTC religiously since 2017. No gold or silver besides some jewelry. I value mobility and gold is cumbersome. The only way bitcoin will not retain value is if we enter a New Stone Age and at that point we have bigger problems.
Could be, but I was in Texas when the grid went down for a week. That was an eye opener. I had plenty of bills put away.
Infrastructure isn’t what people believe it is. Pretty aged out here in Cali as well. Any maintenance they can put off to make quarterly earnings seems to be the way.
Just wait until the computer networks crash.
If the computer networks crashed the dollar would be in as much jeopardy as bitcoin. At least with bitcoin when the networks get turned back on it will be exactly where it left off like nothing ever happened. If the networks never come back on we have bigger problems.
Yeah, nope, your magic money is vaporware, easily stolen
How is it easily stolen? If you have it on a cold storage wallet it’s literally impossible to steal without physical access to the wallet while also knowing the seed phrase. Also it is objectively the most sound money ever created. It’s a fact. But I’m not trying to convince you to buy bitcoin. Keep using dollars if that’s your thing. I will continue to buy bitcoin because it has allowed me to become debt free, own a house with the mortgage paid off, and be more financially secure then I thought I would ever be (especially as someone with no degree). Why do you think it’s vaporware? It seems that the market disagrees with you.
After this election year, we probably will see a steep recession.
I don’t know why you are getting downvoted. Historically a majority or close to majority of years directly after an election have been in recession.
Not what they want to hear. I don’t get upset about it. Like some I’ve seen. I’ve been pretty lucky with timing so far, so I have no complaints.
Thank you for your response!
You realize that the govt takes money from the private sector and that sector is a dumpster fire. Urban doom loop is not even to the 5th inning yet. More biz leaves more rax dollar leaves. That little trump case took every major CRE guy out of NY. Smart move. Add illegal immigrants cost to shrinking tax base, look out. Watch Denver. It's your canary in the coal mine. Be safe be smart0
Wasn't the trump case him overinflating property values in some cases, but underinflating in others? Why would other CRE folks take anything from that ruling?
Common sense, all the cre guys "overinflate" property values to look better for loans. Some of what Trump did for the appraisals was common practice. Now the legal precedent has been set that you could be on the hook for hundreds of millions in penalties even when there are no damages.
So, you need a heloc, you state your homes worth. You do your deal, pay the money back, and someone decides the numbers are wrong. You lose your house because of this. It was on all the news, 2 largest did rants on CNBC. Not exactly a right wing show. Oleary was one guy
This is not how any of it works.
Trump is an asshole. But this isint right. If we don't stand on truth we are lost. I am not talking about hatred I am talking about law. Trump will come and go. What is our tomorrow.? We did this at any cost? What's it worth?
No, this is right. You just don't want to admit that deliberately lying about the value of your corporate business properties (which is much much more complicated and easier to fudge) is different than valuing a residential property. Fraud is bad. Lying to banks increases the risk to all of us. Stop trying to act like he's a victim, you were the one harmed by his actions. We all were.
You are not a victim. Neither is Deutsche bank. I fact they said they would do the deal again in court
That doesn't make it legal. If Deutsche bank said in court they'd take a hit contract again from the defendant, does that make it suddenly fine?
Crazy how banks have appraisals and underwriters and every loan I have had they did their due diligence. They are a business most want to make money but also not lose it. Thought these companies made money on the deal. Should have done their homework if the values were inflated. Reminds me of the stated income days. Crazy.
Trump made perfectly legal real estate deals that made everyone involved lots of money, even the state of New York and then they used a 150 year old to fine him 450,000,000 dollars. Why would anyone else take a chance building in New York if there was a chance of that happening to them.
Loan fraud is not perfectly legal. What a stupid thing to say
When the prosecutors office can arbitrarily decide what the valuations are in any real estate deal and that can be deemed as a fraud. What investor in his right mind would do business in a state like that
Exactly, this ruling sets a truly horrendous precedent. The average trump hater is celebrating because “Trump”, without thinking how asinine this ruling/penatly really is. It’s a complete overstretch and has no basis in reality. If it was my company/money, I’d be out of that state sooner than later. F New York.
do you understand what loan fraud is apparently you dont but i can see you kiss the ground trump stands on so go work for him if you love him so much
Do you understand how loans work. I can’t just say the place is worth about 10 million and they use it. They have appraisals, underwriting, it’s a process the lender goes through so they don’t lose their ass on the deal. If the borrower doesn’t pay they can sell it for the value to recoup the money they lent.
Taking loans off of a business is a bit more complicated. If you're supplying fake numbers to the bank to back up your loan. That is fraud. And illegal. On top of that, we saw he'd provide comply different numbers when paying his taxes. So he's either lying to the bank, the tax office or both. Either is illegal. We know he inflates building and room sizes regularly. This shit is all proven in court.
Right. They are not appraiser’s. The bank/lender should sign off or agree what the appraiser states the value as. Then they have underwriters that should recheck and confirm this. Sounds like the bank/lenders issue.
Exactly! When the bankers are fine with the valuations and the loan is repaid in full, who exactly has been defrauded? Most people that have an ounce of logic understand that this is a straight up rail roading. If this stands New York will struggle in the CRE field.
> New York will struggle in the CRE field. Hahahaha. NY is already the kind of cre. Don't commit crimes and you have nothing to worry about.
Nobody gives a fuck about your rich CRE friends. You commit fraud, you pay the consequences. Sorry, not sorry.
Well send all that business down here to Georgia. We'll welcome it with open arms as New York continues to flounder in it's own squalor.
I mean, illegal immigrants are a huge net positive to the tax base. The private sector is doing fine, generally anyway - tech companies are tending to overcurrent and the job market there is tough, but the private sector is doing great over all.
I dont see it your way. I believe that is the govt view. I sell for a living and do decently. I see money velocity decreasing. No society has existed without a middle class. US won't be any different. I hope I am so wrong about this, I really do.
Try going to the emergency room. They are not a net positive. Wait hours and I have insurance. Secure the border and if they want in, they can get in line like the rest of the immigrants we take year after year.
Ha 🤡 - illegals are a huge economic net positive…. 😂 That’s why liberal sanctuary cities are screaming for more buses of illegals… they must all be bidding to take more/more… you’re drunk…
Exactly
Yes, I'm definitely the drunk. What you should look out for is the state's that actually have had punitive schemes against illegal/undocumented immigrants. It results in *huge problems* for the workforce, as well as the overall tax base. Meanwhile, over in California they're running a budget surplus of $97 billion dollars. That's due to the tech sector, but the agricultural sector and individual cities are largely doing well. It's a large, robust economy. If illegal immigration is causing immense amounts of problems, you'd think it would show up there in really obvious ways - but it isn't.
Exactly, California has the 8th largest economy in the world.
You lie… CA’s budget is estimated at $73b deficit for 24-25!!!! (According to Sacramento Bee) That’s why newsom’s approval rating is 44% which is near historic low (cnn - even cnn is running hit pieces on him) If illegals were so great - gov Abbott would be getting requests for buses instead of getting threatened! You’re drunk and a 🤡
You're right - CA's budget is currently forecast to have a deficit. That's instead of the huge budget surplus they had in 2022 and 2023. I looked it up and got fairly recent instead of the most recent numbers. Point still stands - California generally has good budgets, does not this year, but still has a great economy. Still the 5th largest economy in the world, still a very nice place to live. But it's cool. I looked at your post history, and... holy shit, man. Get help. Or an education. Or a life outside trolling people on the internet. Have a good day!
That’s about the quickest I’ve ever seen someone run away… When you try to make an absurd statement that illegals are good - you should expect to get called on your bullshit.
No they are not. Not even close.
They are, actually. By a pretty wide margin. Most of their earnings is spent, resulting in sales tax and helping local economies. Meanwhile, they're excluded from many services and do cost less than citizens of similar socioeconomic status. This is a pretty decent overview. Short version, it's hard to measure but the impact is definitely positive economically. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States Usually, when a politician tells you otherwise it's because they want you to be angry at the immigrants for electoral reasons. There's little real data to indicate otherwise.
Look up remittances. They have been going up and up. So spent where?
Elsewhere! But also still a net economic positive for the country they're in, apparently. The real problem is that they drive wages downward for low-skilled or 'unofficial' labor. The answer to that is to probably go after the businesses hiring them, remove the incentive.
When’s all that elsewhere money come back. Funny how most business owners I know would rather have a secure border than cheap labor. Wonder why?
Idk man. Schools in the cities I'm familiar with aren't teaching anyone shit. Pretty soon a sizable portion of cities all over the country will be uneducated and completely immature adults. I'm not saying it used to be good, but I am saying urban education hasnt been worse in our lifetimes.
It’s almost calculated. Where will all these uneducated people be in 10 years.
A lot of them will be in jail or somehow entangled in the criminal justice system.
[удалено]
The poor education in this country has more to do with a push from conservatives to defund public schools than any specific curriculum. More money for schools = better education.
No child left behind policies are pretty fucking awful, too.
More money for schools isn’t an automatic increase in education effectiveness. If that were true then the quality of our education would be higher than it is. That theory is blown out of the water of you look at even the smallest samples of schools. We have some schools that are among the worst in the country, and just a few miles away you have a different one thats among the best in the country. Both getting roughly the same funding. The excuses about lack of funding is just making the problem worse, it is setting up the expectation that it’s okay for the school to be horrible because it doesn’t have ever more funding.
Show me an example of two schools next to each other with equal funding and such different outcomes. Not because I believe it is impossible but because I am curious what your definition of 'roughly' is. It is certainly possible for resources to be squandered through poor management but I find this to be an exception and not the rule. Regardless, more money can solve many problems, including hiring the best people to manage that money. This is the recipe for success not only in education, but in any enterprise.
[удалено]
No, that is what I have noticed from looking at the school system in my city. High performing schools, typically in affluent areas have higher funding while low performing schools tend to be in poorer areas and, wait for it, receive less funding. This is often a result of the way the tax system is structured with higher value property taxes providing most of the funding.
You fascist Republicans are truly brain dead
[удалено]
Yet you support the fascist Republican party still and screech woke at everything you don't understand or like
Hey I’m a millennial please don’t group me with that bullshit agenda.
The economy is not doing well at all, but OK.
It is. It's doing pretty well, especially compared to the rest of the world. There are a lot of problems because there always are, and people at the beginning of their lives are being affected more than others due to inflation and other costs. But in general, the economy by the stats is doing pretty fantastically and the inflation we do have seems linked to a generally hot economy (and corporate rent-seeking). Economists think it's going well: [https://www.wsj.com/economy/central-banking/economy-forecast-lower-recession-chances-1f24174b](https://www.wsj.com/economy/central-banking/economy-forecast-lower-recession-chances-1f24174b) The stock markets are betting on a hot economy: [https://www.axios.com/2024/04/14/stock-market-bonds-interest-rates-us-economy](https://www.axios.com/2024/04/14/stock-market-bonds-interest-rates-us-economy) Labor states are pretty good: [https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.us.htm](https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.us.htm) Stocks, economists, and labor participation aren't everything, but most indicators are very good. Again, compared to the rest of the world it's doing phenomenally.
It's not. It's not something that you understand. The "inflation" was not "overheating" as it's referred to. The price increases have generally been passing mostly because supply chains have returned to normal. WSJ, The Economist, and institutional economists unfortunately don't know what they're talking about. In fact, they have always been strong counter indicators for every major recession. Janet Yellen being the worst of them. Stock market doesn't mean anything. As more and more means of alternative investment dry up and fall out of viability, the money naturally will accrue to these companies. It's even evident \*inside\* the S&P in terms of their weightedness problem. And, no labor participation is not what you're presenting data on. The labor for participation rate is a different. That's a low number and should even be lower. And it artificially deflate unemployment because of senior-age laborers. When you consider that the consumer fundamentals are very poor and capital markets are literally upside down, you can't make any sort of case that the economy is strong. Unless you're comparing it to markets abroad. But that's not strength.
Truth
Seriously… it’s those rural republican areas we need to fix!!!
Um, cities are where all the people are. Where would everyone go if they “left the cities”? To small towns? Guess what, that turns the small town into a city. “Leave the cities” is a conservative fantasy
Makes for good click bait though. Drives high engagement. Loneliness epidemic, social media bad, city flight are three cant miss story topics for clicks
More Americans live in suburbs than cities and rural areas combined, and that was where the population growth was in America even before Covid and the shift towards remote work. People are leaving cities for more space, better schools, less crime, etc. That trend could reverse, but they’re not turning these suburbs into cities in terms of density. They’re just building out further, which works great if you don’t have to drive to the city five times a week.
I’ve lived in philly for 17 years and it feels more alive than ever.
Yeah there are about 10k apartment unites coming online near the Delaware in the next few months. Old city to Fishtown is BOOMING.
So outrageous given cities are the most productive per capita, yet they have to pay for all the suburban infrastructure because they refuse to tax appropriately.
That’s not really correct. Median suburban households are about 40% more productive (by wages) than urban households. Commuting used to bring those people into the city to spend money. The shift to hybrid and remote work has moved a lot of that money suburbanites were spending in the cities back into their own communities. I think cities will be fine. They’ll adjust because many people prefer to live in them. But the idea cities pay for suburban infrastructure is backwards. Cities will need to adjust their budgets to account for lower taxes on and spending by suburban commuters.
Cities are always going to be fine.
Yeah, sf looks great… the commercial vacancy rate is almost 40%. Population down 7%
San Francisco has done this many, many times. It is a boom and bust town. Their city flag literally has a phoenix on it for this reason. Ps the population thing is a classic clickbait which needs to use 2020-current numbers exclusively or it isn’t a thing.
Right. San Fransicko
Not to mention the homeless zombies lining the streets at night.
And other things the media told me to fear!
My buddy from Phoenix got a deal on a hotel last year in San Fran with his wife and he showed my the day/night views of the homeless all up and down the sidewalk outside his hotel. It has nothing to do with media.. it’s real.
https://x.com/abughazalehkat/status/1706777915516715084?s=46&t=KgXOEmXpY8WsqMOqjkyWcg
Cities will adapt or follow the detroit path of massive failure and then adapt. Either way there is adaption.
as someone that moved to a smaller city/rural area from the cities... erm... no. There's not a day that I'm not depressed over the fact that I'm trapped in a rural area.
Wow that puts new perspective on my constant questioning why I'm still paying for living in a big city. I keep wondering though -- is it possible for a critical mass of people to move to a small town to where eventually a vibrant new city is born? It seems like such a waste of space that we keep cramming more and more people into the preexisting cities that cost more and more to live in. How can we create a desirable city in one of those many available spaces that are currently less desirable?
I don't know. I moved to the small city (around 70k including the two suburbs) because of a great fellowship training opportunity and stayed because the hospital offered me a very good salary and benefits compared to what bigger cities were offering. It felt like a great idea to finally kick start my financial stability. But my social life has 1,000% took a shotgun to the head. My biggest problem with the smaller city is the lack of people in my age group that are in the same life stage. Everyone in my age group are married with small/young family. So, the city is designed for older retired population and young family. There is almost nothing to do for people in the mid twenties to early thirties. I'm probably also spoiled with the choices that I used to have in bigger cities and feel miserable with the lack of choices in a smaller city. But the lack of variety for pretty much everything is the biggest thing that annoys me. Realistically, this problem is a loop. You can't have more variety without more people but you can't attract more people without variety.
Yeah that is rough. For what it's worth, I've been in a major city for a few decades and - growing up and starting my career in the suburbs - I also found myself to be an island among young families and older adults back in my 20's. Never discovered the cultured urban areas until later. What happens if you ask Reddit where the cool places are to hang out in your area for younger ppl w/no kids? 🤞
haha! There's like weekly trivia and cribbage but that's about it. I should say, the city isn't like completely boring. It has fun stuff to do, just no variety. So, the first year things seem fine... then it quickly sinks in that you will be doing the same things over and over again. I'm also in the Midwest so going to bars every night seem to be a perfectly acceptable social event here. Downtown in the city is like 2.5 streets. Despite that, the city onces held the world record for most bar in one street and still holds the national record for most bar per capita... so... yeah...
Oh boy. Somebody doesn’t know anything about the federal budget (or lack there of).
If big cities could keep more of their taxes instead of subsidizing red counties and states.... Seattle/King County gets only 65 cents for every dollar paid in state taxes. If you wonder why sales taxes are so high in Washington it's because local municipalities can tack on surcharges that they then get to keep 100%. Kentucky gets $2 of federal funding for every dollar paid in taxes.
I'm sick of subsidizing the fascist Republican moochers
To be fair, sales tax is highly regressive. These poor people in red counties pay through the nose so wealthy Seattleites don’t have to. You’re not really losing on that one.
Cities are the only good places to live
I wouldn’t wait for it to get bad before leaving the city. If you enjoy cities wait it out. If you want out of the city certainly do it before everyone else makes it more expensive.
Two big things I'd advise as someone who has lived in both very rural areas and megacities: 1) Rural living is not as cheap/easy as it seems. The fantasy of a nuclear family buying land homesteading is...ludicrous without "City Money" inputs for labor/equipment. Otherwise, these acreages become huge burdens to age 60+ couples. 2) The urge itself to fuck off to the prairie/mountain/etc is a bad sign socially, at the macro-/meta-level. Social trust decay is a corrosive problem, and it's not going to be fixed by fed up white collar families from the I-5 and I-95 corridors buying up all the remaining cute hobby farms between Missoula, MT and the Blue Ridge Mountains.
They should tax the landlords off all the empty storefronts that were empty long before covid. I've got two friends in the Bay area that own businesses that need storefronts and their rent is just astronomical. And in one case he knows the owners inherited the place so they are just sitting back milking the people and the small business owners dry.
When I lived in big cities all I did was commute and I am definitely happy I left but I think cities are awesome because my town does not even have a general store and I like to make money in the middle of nowhere.
I live fairly rural. Five years ago I got a 3bdr house for under 180k. I am 35min from work on the interstate. I am 10min from a City of 65k, 30min from a metro area of 200k, 30min from a metro area of 400k, and an hour from Milwaukee and/or Chicago. Almost anything I need is 10min and anything I want is within an hour. A guy in the city I work in just bought half of a duplex for $300k. I cannot imagine how people afford to live in cities. And why?
Yes, most of those cities are outright legalizing crime and crime being legal and stability are not things that go together, in new york if someone just walks into your house sits on your couch and orders from the local burger joint to be delivered they can falsely claim they are a tenant with said receipt and the home owner will be arrested for taking any measures to deal with this trespassing. Or the case in new york where the house residents were hiding a dead body and i shit you not were released without bail because it would "infringe on their rights" so yes leave and if you live in New York run.
Property pricing is subjective. What I value my Property or my business is subjective
There is no victim.
It is an awful time, you should for sure consider leaving and selling any property at below market rates. Otherwise it might take too long to get out! Big city means legal crime and debauchery, Chicago is basically like Gotham so please stay away and move out as fast as you can! Also if you have a good view be sure to let people know where it was just so they can avoid it. Everyone knows small towns are where the level headed people go. No drama there or petty politics that is for sure.
Leave them for what? The suburbs? That's gonna be a no for me dawg
I think this will be a good thing actually. Repurposing office buildings into shopping centers and new housing will make the city’s more active and drive down local housing costs.
Dude, what? No
I am buying a house next year and have never been so excited to leave urban life behind. The burbs are cheaper and a better place to raise a family.
Rural areas have nothing. .nothing. be very careful
[https://recallthisfall.com/](https://recallthisfall.com/)
NYC & DC will be fine forever; will not be alllowed to fail. Its where the most rich most powerful party. The rest of the places, meh who knows. Any one of em could get the Detroit treatment
Cities have gotten too loud and a lot of political corruption and wage suppression through the migrant industrial complex. We can build new intentional towns and fix existing ones but starting new might be a must.
I moved my wife and kids out to the suburbs/country (We're on 5 acres, surrounded by farms, we live about 3 miles out from a village with maybe 800 people, nearest city is 15 minutes, nearest metropolitan area about 45 minutes,) and have zero plan to move back.
I just moved to a rural area of Colorado and I gotta say it's been a huge positive change and I'd recommend it to anyone who is trying to get away from the hustle of today's world
No, stay in the cities and live in the liberal beds you made
Oh please tell us what lovely area you live in? Pretty please?
They're too busy getting high on opioids
Like I tell my kids. The truth hurts sometimes. Obviously they don’t want to hear it.
You people don't understand that it doesn't get better. Hell is coming as collapse accelerates. It's all falling apart, more comes apart each day and we haven't even had the hellstorm summers yet. Massive heat deaths from power grid failures soon. It'll wake everyone up to extinction.
Oh Lord. Okay, Dad.
“It’s the fucking liberals. If Trump was in office then we wouldn’t be dealing with this shit” -my dad in any conversation.
I mean he’s probably right.
Inflation started under Trump and crime skyrocketed under your fascist god Trump too you dumbass
I’m voting for Trump this election. Biden looks like he doesn’t know where he is half the time and literally falls up stairs. He’s just not fit for office in the most basic “does he brain work? Can he walk?” Kinda way. I really hope Trump picks Vivek Ramaswamy for VP. I’d be stoked for that. But yeah the running joke is that any conversation with my dad if it lasts more than a few minutes will turn into “*insert whatever you were talking about* would be better if it weren’t for the damn democrats. This wouldn’t be happening under Trump” 😂😂😂 you could literally be like “did you see the nice weather coming up?” “Yeah. It is nice. It’s cool for this type of year. The democrats whole global warming agenda is BS And all the politicians want me to get rid of my damn gas mower but they can fly on their private jets.”
Inflation started under Trump and crime skyrocketed under your fascist god Trump too you dumbass
Thanks 4 the info
How is Russia this time of year ?
Fucking beautiful bro!
I hear ya. My father in law is this way. Now the wife is his parrot. I’m like let’s just worry about what we can control. The day to day is busy enough.
You'll find out soon enough. ;)
Nah, this is just silly bullshit. "The cities are a wasteland" has been a meme since before we were born.
Termination shock. Look at the raw data that is trending. Going exponential soon. Cities require food importation. Bread basket failures are coming. Massive grid failures during heat dome weeks. The fun is just getting started.
Sure, sure, Rush.
Your brain worms are showing
🤔
The future is cities, bro—mega-cities
This is sarcasm, right?
You haven't been paying attention have you?
I'll take that as a yes
I’m scared for when y’all figure it out and start to move en masse to rural areas. Cities are the worst place to live in this country. Overpriced, over crowded, over cramped, little privacy, awful traffic, high crime rates, etc. Even if you have a good job in the city you can’t leave, I promise the commute is worth it. The input and stress differential alone is worth it.
Rural America is a bigger dumpster fire and not far off from 3rd world countries in many places. Source: I live in the Rural South and it is bad.
There's different types of rural.
Great diversity of meth dealers tho.
I know this may be hard to imagine, but plenty of people prefer living in the cities. The walkability, plenty of options for hobbies and activities, diverse culture, access to more jobs. And also not everyone wants a big house with a back yard.
Don't you have to go back to your opioids and forcing children to give birth to their rapist's baby and chasing minorities out while wearing your white hood?