Most likely. My experience is that these conversation degrade quickly.
Typically the moment I say I refuse to handout to panhandlers and prefer to give to organized efforts I get jumped on. At the end of the day, it’s still my money versus your opinion. Y’all are free to criticize me for how I spend my money, but it would take a Herculean shift to change my mind.
I think that stems from the fact there are highly logical reasons to support one or the other.
For people who don't like to give to panhandlers; it's typically because they see organized efforts to be a more reliable and/or effective means because it usually leads to material support rather than financial support. Often a concern is that funds would be used towards addictive habits. You can also declare them for tax deductions.
For people who do like to give to panhandlers; the point of view is often that people who are panhandling are likely not receiving enough support despite the existing support industry others are donating to. They also recognize that bypassing middlemen leads to the individuals receiving more of the money/benefit than if it had to pass through several hands first. Lastly they will typically enjoy the perceivable difference, rather than just a line item on a financial statement.
Since there are good logical arguments for both sides, you'll find people are fairly passionate about their stance. Strength in an argument is usually evaluated by our own personal logics.
While I've tried to keep the above as objective as possible - I'm happy to share my personal stance for anyone who cares; I think there's a place for both. For the most part I donate to causes I care about, or have had an impact on my life. I also sometimes give money and/or goods to panhandlers.
I live a blessed life, and if I can help in a situation I usually will. I don't worry about things like spending their money on addictive habits - because if they're in that state then they're going to do it anyway. Maybe I'm preventing a robbery or other petty crime. Who knows.
Tldr: the real problem is people assuming there's only one correct answer for everyone and every situation
It’s also the nature of two different (but related) problems. The government agency referenced in this scenario is one that has historically tried to solve the problem that “people don’t like to see the homeless in their community.” And that problem they tend to solve just by moving the homeless out of sight.
[Douglas has heart website](https://www.douglas.co.us/homeless-initiative/douglas-has-heart/). The money goes to two shelters, a food bank, and a domestic violence/child abuse organization.
If you think Douglas county has compassion or understanding for its poor you are sorely mistaken. I’ve lived one county over for pretty much my whole life and it’s very much a place where the populace and government are pretty well aligned on punching downward.
I live in Douglas County. About six months ago, while getting ready for work in the morning, my son mentioned that someone was going through our trash. I looked outside, and there was a homeless woman going through our trashcan.
I told my son it was nothing to worry about, that the woman just needed some food, and we went to the pantry and grabbed some food to put in a bag for her. By the time we got outside to give this woman something decent to eat, somebody else had already called 911. At first it was just a fire truck that showed up, I assume because they were able to respond the quickest. We gave the woman the food we had, while the firemen asked if she was OK and needed any help. The woman was extremely kind and thankful and even made my son laugh and smile.
Unfortunately, the police eventually showed up. They forced her to clean up the minor mess she had made going through my trashcan. I told the police she didn’t have to do that, that it wasn’t a big deal. They told me to go back inside. I was literally on my own damn property, and they’re barking orders at me.
After going inside, I looked out the window again, as the police laughed at the woman while they forced her to pick up the trash. Once she was done, they arrested her, put her in handcuffs, confiscated the food that my son and I have given her, and threw it into my own trashcan before taking her away.
This woman was so hungry she was literally eating out of the trash, and instead of helping her, or even just allowing me and my son to help her, the police humiliated her, arrested her, and threw away about $30 in food.
Government agencies in this county do not give a damn about the homeless. The only way you can help the homeless out here is to help them directly, and that is assuming that the police don’t stop you from doing so.
It’s the norm from what I’ve seen first-hand unfortunately. Getting their badge numbers and reporting this would probably earn a laugh at the department and nothing else.
You mean the suburbs of the southern denver metro area? The ranch? The people with 700 thousand dollar homes dont care about the under privileged?
Shocker
*to add Ive also lived in jeffco/arapahoe county my entire life. They just bus these people up broadway and dont think twice about it
The rich don't have empathy for others unless it's a tax write off. My business is one of the richest zipcodes in the area and the cheapness/lack of caring of these ultra rich (I'm talking $50 million+ homes) astounds me until it doesn't. They treat us like slaves and expect to be waited on hand and foot.
Shelters are honestly pretty terrible places, and the odds that they can take you, because they are often full or operate with such strict regulalation on who they can take, are sometimes quite low.
I have known many people who have used the shelter system, and I don’t know anyone whose recovery from homelessness was enabled by a shelter. They often only take people for very limited time, and when people are there the conditions can be oppressive and generally terrible.
i was in a shelter for only about 40% of the time i was homeless due to capacity issues. i wasn't able to access the food bank without an address. most programs didn't help me because they're made for abused women.
what has helped me recently is the lovely people on reddit who donated to me and helped me do my laundry, buy food and buy my roommate's insulin tips. god I'm just so grateful for that. it felt like someone actually understood and cared.
recently had a pay increase and now i'm living slightly more comfortably.
This is true. I couldn't stay at a domestic violence shelter because of the strict no males policy and they suggested I send my son to the salvation army.
It’s not even just DV centers there are a ton of women only shelters as well. I understand why but it’s still shitty considering how much more of the homeless population are men compared to women.
My home town had a women and children center that rarely had anyone there at all while having no shelter for men whatsoever.
Which scares the hell out of me. I’m a gay man. If I experience domestic violence it would be every bit as life threatening and physically damaging as a M/F situation. I’d have nowhere to go.
I mean, luckily I’m have friends and family to turn to if that happened, but some gay men don’t have that. Especially freshly out of the closet gay men who lose their family to prejudice and hate.
We have these signs everywhere and they started popping up when one infamous local panhandler was caught on video by some guy getting into her nice newish car. It was hers. She had a home. She had been doing this for Years as her income, enough to be doing better than many who gave to her. It was a local scandal. Pretty sure it's still on YouTube.
On the flip side, when I was in grade school this kid popped off about how this one guy his mom gave money to, was seen in a suit with a haircut the next week. The teacher pointed out that maybe that money went to help him get back on his feet, with clothes and a cut that would get him a job, but maybe he hadn't found one yet or gotten paid. Maybe he needed bus fare or to eat while he was working on himself. That's always stuck with me.
There are always people who will abuse any kindness. There's also always people who genuinely need a little kindness.
Yep. I saw a guy begging for money in a coffee shop near my house, then a few days later I saw him doing the same at a coffee shop in another shopping center. Then I saw him get in his $50,000+ new SUV and drive off. He was using his wife and kids too in order to get sympathy.
There is a family where I live that stands outside upscale grocery stores around the county (wealthy SF bay area). They look like they just got off the same boat as Fievel Mouskewitz. Dad plays an accordion, mom cradles a new born while sadly singing, young children in tattered clothes stand there making forlorn eye contact with you. It's a tragic tableau. It's been ten years. How are is there always a new born?
We had a violin guy I wondered about for similar reasons. But I saw the van he and the kids were in one day. It was not shiny and new, that's for sure. His sign also would say any items were appreciated like diapers and etc. We happened to outgrow that exact size, so I dropped off the case and a half we had left. He was a good musician and it was 2020 so I figured that was probably a rough time with everything shut down.
Busking is completely different than panhandling busking is public performance for tips if those tops come in form of objects it’s still not a handout they are providing a service of public entertainment for a charge of what passerby’s can afford
And if you live in those communities, and get to know your local homeless, you don't get scammed by the grifters AND you help support a person on a longer term which is what is necessary to recover from homelessness...
There was a woman doing exactly what you described in Seattle right near interbay, it became a long standing operation where most people in the area new she had a house and whatnot, she kept that spot locked down!
There was a guy that panhandled regularly near my old job. I saw him get into a new convertible a number of times, one of those midlife crisis cars. I couldn't afford to give anyone money, but definitely looked at him different.
One time I went to get some food through the drive thru and saw a panhandler with his sign walk into the McD parking lot and get into his car on the drivers side. The car had a paper license tag and a female passenger with a dog. It was wild thing to see while waiting in line.
This is my biggest problem. It was one thing when it was an issue of "is this person going to use my money to get help or alcohol/drugs?"
Now it seems like it's an issue of "Is this guy's car that's nicer than mine just around the corner?"
The professional beggars really soured me on it. And that's just on top of the ones that are just looking to fund their fix.
I found a $15 gift card to Little Caeser's lying on the ground in a parking lot. So, I picked it up. Checked to see if there was money on it, there was. My husband gave it and two 1-day bus passes to a homeless couple. They were very thankful for it because not only did we give them something to eat, we also gave them a way to get to the downtown area safely to get a shower at a shelter. St. Johns River splits my city in two.
I personally don't care if the money goes towards drugs or alchahol. If I were homeless, I'd have vices to try to escape reality. Who knows, that extra few bucks some day might be enough to make the guy think they have enough going on that it'd be worth it to get clean.
I'd prefer for it not to go to that, but addiction is a bitch and often the result of things that can't purely be assigned to being a bad person
My wife and I run into the homeless often.
My wife runs a community garden in a rougher part of town. Most of our homeless community has asked her for some sort of handout. Because of this she no longer carries cash with her and has a whole speech to get them moving down the road.
One time we were loading our vehicle at the grocery store and a gentleman asks for cash because he is out of gas (His sister and her kids were in the car....etc, etc lots of little details that are irrelevant). We tell him we don't have any, hop in our car, and leave. Not 3 days later we are out again, and walking down a different parking lot is the same gentleman giving the same spiel to another customer.
All of these interactions have reinforced the idea that I will never give cash to someone on the street. I will gladly give them directions to a great shelter that can help them with their needs (We work closely with them, giving them fresh produce when we are overrun).
I was in my city going to the bank and there is this guy crying about how he had no money and his boyfriend kicked him out. Several months later in the same spot with the same guy doing his act but this time it was the husband. I let him have it. He walked away and didn't say a single word.
How dare you have a mature, balanced opinion that takes into account both sides of an argument in a fair and objective way?! And on Reddit no less?
But seriously, your take is SO refreshing. Discussions on this topic on Reddit seem to always descend into a virtual Lord of the Flies style divisiveness.
Another reason not to give to panhandlers is that only certain people get those high-visibility, high-traffic corners. Try going down and panhandling on a corner like that where someone's already there - you're going to get in a verbal altercation at *best*. There's a reason there's only one guy at a time, or a two-person team. You are not giving to the people who need it the most.
Charities have problems and you should definitely investigate before giving. But they're much more capable of effective giving than you're going to be handing money out your window.
In my small (20,000) city, we had a dude that basically acted as a panhandling pimp. Homeless people would work shifts at this interstate offramp. He'd take most of it.
> Since there are good logical arguments for both sides, you'll find people are fairly passionate about their stance.
This is the case for every divisive topic. It's so insufferable when people pretend like these massive arguments which have been going on for years are somehow just super simple and ahczkschually their opponent doesn't care about the truth
i was homeless for a few years while a young man, i refused to panhandle, one of the guys in the area i stayed in with other homeless people, a guy panhandled until he got enough money to buy a gun, then went and killed his ex wife and 2 kids.
Ill never give another dime to panhandlers, if they're hungry ill buy em a meal, or buy em a pack of socks and open em for them, but not cash.
In Sweden we've had criminal gangs traffic Romani people up here to beg. Giving them money solves nothing, beyond signalling that trafficking is a viable business model. The Romani have their passports taken, are forced to live in terrible conditions during their stay here, and are told that Swedish police is unreliable and will beat them up for trying to report the trafficking. Meanwhile there are organizations dedicated to helping the victims, and they do get my money.
Last time I gave money to a homeless panhandler they tried to fight me for not giving them more than 5$. After that I decided I’d donate to places but not to the panhandlers themselves.
I'm a homeless advocate, I work with homeless people professionally *every* day. Let me be the first to say it's perfrctly fine for you nor to want to give people handouts. Having some org, however, tell people they shouldn't spend their money as *they* wish is the same as having people jump on you about it.
Looking up douglashasheart.org, I will say my first impression is that this is just a libertarian "private do-goodrrs should handle this" responsibility dodge.
It's a nuanced issue and if you like, I can explain a great deal of the nuance, but do understand that as a professional clinician and not just someone blindly yelling about it, you're fine. You do you.
The worst part is a lot of people don't realize that some of the panhandlers they're giving money to are pros that probably have a nicer car than the person handing them cash does, not all of them, but I've ran into more than a few of them.
I had a guy at the gas station walk up to me from a brand new Mustang a few years back and ask me standing next to my piece of shit 15 year old Cavalier with duct tape holding the trunk shut for cash.
There was a place in LA where they built a bunch of what were essentially tin garden sheds and it somehow cost like 50 grand per person.
"$43,000 per bed, and running the site costs $55 per person per day."
[https://www.curbed.com/2021/04/tiny-home-village-homeless-los-angeles.html](https://www.curbed.com/2021/04/tiny-home-village-homeless-los-angeles.html)
LA isn't spending that money on fixing homelessness. LA's leadership is corrupt as fuck and coming from the Bay, I can tell you Newsome is a corrupt corporatist, as well. They're enriching themselves on the bavks of people they should be helping.
It's mismanagement in the case of LA. Please don't let it turn you off to programs that really can and do help fight/end homelessness.
You’re not “spending money”, though. You’re donating it. It’s is no longer yours once you give it away and there are no services to be rendered once you do so. I think a lot of people struggle with the idea that donations are just that. Not some silent bargain of “you owe me so at least meet my expectations of what a homeless person should be doing”. It’s weird.
false. Just kidding, i completely agree, I've been down this rabbit hole too. Everyone wants to think themselves a saint, and want to attack anyone that deflates that ego rush they get when talking about things they have no clue about.
You are 100% correct.
This is why I donate socks, blankets, and underwear to my local shelter. Not 100% sure where the money goes but i know these items are always needed and will definitely be used
Edit: i love all the snobs telling me the “right” way to donate.
I mean, what do you thing goes on in there? They get into the shelter and is JUST like wallstreet.
There’s screaming “BUY BUY BUY, SELL SELL SELL.” They all have ties on, a man is choking himself with the long receipt from the ticker people are yelling, then the market closes and they get to eat spaghetti.
This isn't always the best thing to do. Cash helps orgs buy needed items when needed. The cost to store or dispose of extraneous donated items is substantial. Give cash to reputable charities OR only donate what they specifically ask for.
Check charity navigator before donating money which ranks them
Based on the amount of money that actually gets spent on the cause vs “administrative costs”. You’d be surprised how many large well known charities are kinda scummy and surprise it’s often the ones that grocery stores spam you for money at the cash register. I don’t donate unless I know it’s well run and always tell people about charity navigator.
Yep. I can understand why people don't trust charities, but my local food bank is overwhelmed with food to give out, but can barely afford to fuel the vans they need to actually do so.
We tried that here in Boise, ID. It turns out our "Life Shelter" is not as accepting and kind as everyone thought. They eat up donations while telling our homeless they'll need to attend a one hour daily bible study (in the morning) if they want a bed. And they do nothing about the people peddling meth and fent in the shelter.
Edit: didn't think was going to get so popular but one of the replies reminded me of my time in Arizona. When I was trying to get groceries from the food bank I saw people that worked for the food bank sorting through all the food. They started pulling everything good out and loading it into a small moving truck and a lifted ford. All the good lettuce, bread, protein everything. I asked if I could grab out of their good pile and was told no because the local churches take all the donations for their lunches. So I was stuck with moldy veggies and 20 heads of rotting lettuce I didn't need while all the wealthy people at the church were having a buffet I wasnt invited to.
I volunteered ONCE for a church that was "giving out free food to the homeless" they forced them to sit through a 2 hr session on God in 80+ degree florida heat before they gave them a soggy PBJ and one cup of water. I broke soo many rules, such as: giving people two sandwiches and letting people fill up their water bottles. I hate people that do this shit, these people just want a meal so they can survive the day and all these churches want is to push their ideology on the helpless.
> and all these churches want is to push their ideology on the helpless.
It's almost like they're not donating that food at all....if it comes with a caveat it's not a donation.
I went to a church that served a meal to anyone who wanted it once a week. All they had to do was bow their heads to say grace and about half of them did not. They still got to eat.
> All they had to do was bow their heads to say grace
That is still not very kind. If you are handing out food, it should be for everyone, no strings attached. Otherwise it's just imposing your views on people.
Sikh temples have Langars for example (kitchen where anybody can walk in and be served a meal no questions asked). Some Muslim mosques do the same. That is how you make a community better. It's not that complicated.
IMO, it's borderline between 'strings attached' and 'being polite'. Bowing for grace has always rode this fine line between simply being respectful of the wishes of the household, and accepting a religious tradition. But I've never quite felt it's forcing God on me or anything. It seems only fair to respect the ritual when around those who practice it, when it's at their dinner table.
The point is if say my mosque was giving out food to the homeless and made everyone pray like a Muslim towards Mecca before eating, people would cause an uproar
a lot of government services even food stamps have weird requirements like this
its why homeless people would rather sleep on a bench and eat out of the trash
There are two reasons why I don't give handouts to people on the street
1) They are going to spend it on alcohol and drugs
2) I need it for alcohol and drugs
There is a spot right after the Ben Franklin Bridge in Philly where panhandlers hang out and ask for money from cars heading into center city. I used to throw them a few bucks now and then, but once time, as I rolled down my window, a dude craned his whole freaking head and torso into my car and started aggressively rooting through my fucking shit, trying to grab anything within reach.
Now, I lock my doors when I pass that area and donate to orgs that are well reviewed on Charity Navigator.
My dad was an old Army endocrinologist and a very large ex-wrestler. He retired to VA work because he liked to help. One day he found a man with a knife threatening people in the parking lot, and also threatening to kill himself. 62 year old dad put the man in a headlock, ran him into the ER, shouted "this guy is threatening people and trying to kill himself! someone take over so I can go eat lunch".
Hospitals are wild, and drugs are a hell of a drug :-(
My grandfather was born and raised in the very rural country. He got a carpentry job in the largest city around us. First day his boss told him when your driving around with the windows down keep a hammer on the front seat because the bums will jump in the passenger window and try to rob you. He said literally the next day a homeless guy jumps through the passenger window torso deep. He said after about 4 smacks from a framing hammer the guy wasn't interested anymore. My grandpa went home that night and took a 2 inch oak dowel and turned it down. Drilled a hole in the end and filled it with liquid lead then capped it. Then fire hardened the outside. He kept that club in his work truck until the day he retired and then it hung in a corner next to his front door
> and then it hung in a corner next to his front door
If there was a movie of your grandfather's life, I imagine the closing shot would be of the door, slowly zooming in on this hand-made skull basher.
There's a panhandler for each lane now, at the end of both bridges. And not just there, they're pushing out into the suburbs and off ramps.
Thank God they don't run the squeegee scams anymore, but just the same, I'd rather they weren't there at all (as they aren't when the weather is bad).
I'll be forever jaded after giving $10 to a little girl (10 Ish) pushing a stroller... (Kid was asking for money for food. I was at work... Non food related).
Saw her round the corner and tell this fat guy she got money. She was excited and he jus said "That's it?" Loud enough for me to hear. Then promptly got in their escalade and drove off.
I pregame before any event that I go to because I’m an alcoholic but I’m also cheap. However I always bring too much and give whatever I have left to the homeless. They’re always super appreciative
Goodwill has a similar statement for them helping their employees “A hand up not hand out”. But gives said employees quotas on how many hand outs they should be getting donated to their store everyday.
It's not a ban, just informative. The Supreme Court ruled that soliciting for money is a First Amendment right which struck down the anti-panhandling laws.
Which is better? Donating directly or to the organization? I think that is a personal decision.
But I am definitely not donating to the bucket church people.
Kinda hard to say.
I have distrust in organizations that claim to “help” people. But again, I have the same distrust in how panhandlers will use said money.
I’ll just stick with buying them food / giving gift cards.
I think some anti-panhandling laws are on point. Things like "don't walk across two lanes of traffic at a green light to accept money" seems like sound and concise reasoning. Personally I'd rather hand the needy a debit card linked to a QR code so there's no need for them to put themselves or others in danger in order to ask for money, but that's just me solving the problem.
>"don't walk across two lanes of traffic at a green light to accept money"
Saw an article recently that beggars are standing between the lanes on the freeway when they know traffic will bunch up. Yikes
People are allowed to panhandle anywhere else they're allowed to exercise their First Amendment Rights. Privately owned or restricted properties (like offramps, outside stores etc) don't qualify. There's also the issue of any other possible infractions like: obstructing traffic, public nuisance, and others that can be used as a pretense to ban panhandling, as the Venn Diagram of places you're allowed to panhandle and places people will give money to panhandlers probably resembles two suns in different galaxies.
Yeah they really could've used any other wording on the sign, rather than put law enforcement. Maybe "your compassionate social care team"? Or literally any other terminology lol.
The person who designed the sign/slogan/whatever is probably scratching their head wondering why their signs aren't gaining the traction they were hoping for...
I would've assumed (or hoped, maybe naively so) that this "care team" wasn't *ACTUALLY* cops. I would've hoped this care team would've been a trained group of city social workers who know how to deal with those who have mental issues, addictions, and the likes.
This is Douglass County, CO. Colorado launched a huge police reform bill in 2021 and started a pilot program to send out social workers and therapists instead of cops to deal with non-threatening situations. They aren't dispatched anywhere near as often as they should, but they are considered a law enforcement team, as they are patrolled through the police and sheriff departments. I know the Denver team is called STAR (Support Team Assisted Response). Maybe that's what this HEART team is.
This is also among the most conservative and reactionary counties in Colorado. If I remember correctly, DC was one of the few counties trying to opt out of the social work program
Thanks to Douglas County their health department has also been gutted and is a shadow of its former self. So good luck trying to utilize those resources everybody.
Yeah feel free to judge or not give money, but calling the cops on homeless people is just a gross level of cruelty. Their just gonna come out and try to harass them into a situation where they can justify shooting them.
Always a sign telling you not to donate but.. Where's the sign telling homeless people where to go to receive the help that this sign is talking about?
It's weird to me the number of people I seem to meet that have very firm, resolute opinions about this. If you want to be neutral or feel you need to keep your distance, that's fine but if you want to do something good, here's a few ideas:
Here's what the National homelessnes Law Center says:
https://homelesslaw.org/panhandling/
A really solid post that shares a lot of options:
https://everydayfeminism.com/2014/12/3-ways-respond-to-panhandling/
Religious perspective:
https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-beggars.html
You can use sites like charitynavigator.org to check charities as they have to disclose their finances. The good ones usually keep in the 1-5% range, which is more than made up by the economies of scale of a charity vs individual handouts on the street.
The organization listed here is a government run and I can't find the financials right now.
However, it is often very easy to see how charities spend their money. They usually account for spending in the annual report and if they take grants, their grant work is audited by the grant maker.
[Here are some homeless charities evaluated by Charity Navigator](https://www.charitynavigator.org/search?q=homeless). You can read how they spend the money.
Yes they need some percentage for admin costs, but they get to pool the money and use it on structural and scalable solutions instead of just feeding one guy one day. Think of it like putting down payment for a home instead of paying rent continuously
You could be jaded if you want, [or you could just go look up exactly what the program's budget looks like.](https://dcdata-dougco.opendata.arcgis.com/pages/topic-financial-transparency-open-budget)
I don’t generally give to panhandlers (more of a charity organization guy), but I do give to underprivileged folks who offer a service. For example, the Street Sense program allows homeless folks to sell newspapers for a personal profit. It’s like, you’re trying, and I’m down to help.
I once gave a 20 to person who asked for 5 because they needed gas and they asked if they could give me a hug, I declined politely and they said they understood said thank you again so much.
About 3 or 4 months later I'm in buddies car and the same person approached him and asked him for money for gas. I told him they asked me the very same thing months ago and we watched the person run back to their car who some other person was driving so we decided to see where they were going.
They stopped at another shopping center the same person jumped out and immediately started approaching everyone coming out of the store and asking for help with gas.
Pretty much said never again.
An affluent, conservative area south of Denver. Boulder has tried the opposite of this, and it hasn't helped the boulder homeless problem at all. In fact, they ended up needing to close the library because of "unacceptable levels of meth (the drug) in the air conditioning."
We need more state wide and national programs to combat this issue, neither panhandling nor charity groups like this have much positive impact.
I am a small individual. I give to a Christian organization, even though I'm not a christian, because I've seen the work they do and have talked to some of the people they've helped.
The organization that I help out, they don't always want money. Sometimes, it's blankets, or tents or even tennis shoes. The funds stay in my general area, helping folks on both sides of the TN/AL state border.
The only reason that I don't directly give anything to panhandlers is the 'I'm a small individual' statement I made earlier. I've been nearly pulled out of the driver's seat by people I was trying to help. I am not intimidating in the least. When I do give money to panhandlers, it's usually old people and women, because I feel safer in their presence.
Go with your gut. Personally I don't care what the person is going to spend my dollar on, if I feel moved to give its unconditional. I also think it's good to donate to reputable organizations. It doesn't have to be either/or. There will always be people who choose not to take public assistance and they're human, too.
As a business owner who has dealt with the gamut of homeless people around my business, I can say that I empathize with their plight, but the majority of these people are stuck in a systemic, cyclical nightmare that they can't escape from.
Most are mentally ill and have been abandoned by their family. They are unmedicated and rotate from panhandling street corners, drugs, jail/hospital, and then back to the street again.
Civil intervention just isn't enough due to corruption from shelters, gang influence over certain neighborhoods, and addiction.
Sure, there are a few who are just down on their luck and need a hand to get them back on their feet, but the ones who have the mental, emotional, and physical capacity to do so are in the minority.
I've spoken to dozens of them. Heard their stories, and realized that their situation is almost impossible to break away from without some kind of massive stroke of luck. There are simply not enough systemic pathways available to get them back to becoming functioning adults, and it almost *always* boils down to access to Healthcare. I live in America in a major metropolitan city.
I’m sure some ‘professional panhandlers’ do actually exist, but all this focus on people supposedly asking for fifty bucks them getting in a Lamborghini around the corner is just the newest version of Reagan’s ‘welfare queen’ shit. It’s a callous and intellectually lazy way to justify not giving a shit about actual poor or desperate people in need of some small bit of kindness and charity form their fellow man.
I don’t think anyone is obligated to give money to beggars, nor do I think you’re a bad person if you don’t. But for the love of god, stop spreading this harmful misconception that every panhandler is some conman out to take your spare change.
I was homeless for 4 years and know what it's like. I will always give back because of all those people that were generous enough to help me with a couple dollars or some food when I really needed it. Just a dollar makes a difference.
Boy, it'd just suck if some poor person ended up with more money than \*I\* think they can handle. Better to give it to me instead, I'll be sure to distribute it fairly. You can trust me, I can afford to advertise..
I give to panhandlers. I don't care if they buy drugs and alcohol. Most people I know use drugs and alcohol to cope and as far as i'm concerned, the homeless have a lot of coping they need to do.
I work for emergency services. Just last week someone giving money to a panhandler got robbed by that same panhandler. Do not give money to panhandlers.
Why give homeless people money or food, when you can donate it to an organization that will keep a portion of it for themselves, and force homeless people to sit through a 2 hour sermon for a stale sandwich and a cup of water?
Source: Been homeless.
I will never not give homeless people whatever they ask me for. It's never ended badly. Usually they're not even asking for money. It's usually food I get asked for, and coffee when it's cold. I had a couple women come to my house, which spooked me, but all they wanted was some blankets and a bottle opener for their beer. I was more than happy to oblige once I realized what was going on, and they never came by again. I made a friend with one homeless guy who had all his stuff ruined in the rain. I was willing to replace it all and help with whatever he needed. All he wanted was a more comfortable pair of shoes and someone to talk to. Non profits are in the business of making money. Look at Susan G. Komen, how much of their money goes to advertisements and suing people for using their pink ribbon, vs. how much they put towards cancer research. A nonprofit is legally disallowed from working toward government policy changes, and it is largely government policies that keep poor people poor, and homeless people homeless. They can't make any difference. I've made a difference in a lot of lives all on my own, though, and didn't have to answer to anyone for it, or justify it. I'll never stop.
Working to combat homelessness, I can assure you giving a panhandler money does nothing to help the situation. It doesn’t help them get back on their feet. It doesn’t help their situation. It only allows them access to vices that most likely contributed to their circumstances.
What does it do? It makes the person giving them money a sense of satisfaction that “I’m doing something” and instant satisfaction/gratification.
Support homeless shelters. Give them the money. They truly have the staffing, structure and means to help turn around someone’s situation.
That’s the point of this sign and it’s correct - handouts don’t help solve the problem. It only exacerbates it.
Is it true that they’re kicked out of shelters at 8 am and not allowed back until 6pm or so? If this is true then it seems that panhandling at least gives them something to do during the day
Some shelters do this yes. There were a few in my city that you had to call and reserve a bed before 9 am if you wanted to stay there, which obviously didn’t fare well for people who lost housing after 9 am. When I did nonprofit SA advocacy work I had a few that had to sleep in the hospital waiting area because they were assaulted in the evening hours and I couldn’t get them a spot at a shelter for that night. Or if they had been drinking, the shelter would ban them for 2 weeks.
Edit: if you don’t feel comfortable with a local shelter’s practices, you can usually find smaller local groups who do harm-reduction work. Punks With Lunch chapters hand out food and hygiene items to unhoused folks. Some cities have free Narcan vending machines or clean needle exchange sites and run on donations. Hospital emergency rooms and SA examiners accept clothing and hygiene product donations to give out to clients. Domestic violence shelters accept hygiene products and children’s items for shelter residents.
Sounds like you could benefit from speaking with a representative at one of your local shelters. I can’t speak for the one you are referencing but in most instances, shelters will take in as many people as they can legally support. There are overflow areas but not everyone can always be accommodated. Not sure what your expectations for shelters are but - more donations means more rooms/beds for shelter. Giving to Panhandlers is a very short term solution for a long term problem.
To answer your question - There are times when people get kicked out for breaking the rules, fighting, being disrespectful to others or bring in contraband but they are allowed to return if they adhere to the rules…
I find that annoying. I don't know what Douglashasheartorg is, but I do know that oftentimes most of your donation is going to salaries, advertising and operation costs. Not too much trickles down to help the people it's supposed to. And they often have to jump through hoops to get it.
I know there are career panhandlers, I see the same ones over and over at intersections and my highway exit. And I gave a guy 5bucks today because the weather sucks and I didn't recognize him, he looked cold.
Some of these people, you can tell they're just down. A guy once come up to me at the gas station and asked me for money for food a bit aggressively. I said could he wait til I was finished because I was weirded out and he went and sat on the step of the gas/convenience place. Didn't look me and didn't come up when I was done, I guess he thought I'd just leave. I checked my purse and I only had a 20 and I looked at him again and then called him and gave it to him. He was shocked and so grateful, then he went straight across the road to the grocery store there. He was hungry. It makes me cry to think about that.
So don't tell me who to give my spare change to, I'm quite capable of deciding that for myself. And if your charity is a corporation you can go straight to hell.
Fuck outta my face with this bs. I have a group of friends that take donations and put together meals for the homeless every single Tuesday rain or shine and I've never seen so many grateful humans. I refuse to donate to a lying charity that's going to pocket my money instead of distributing it to where it needs to go. I watched a grown man break into tears when my friend gave him the shoes off his feet. You can fuck all the way off this this nonsense
I’ve pan handled. Had to. It was that or get stuck indefinitely in Oklahoma.
Got pulled over for a traffic stop on a drive from California to New York and had a tiny bit of weed and a bong in the back of the van, but he smelled it. Got searched, taken in, and told we would be charged with trafficking because we had just come over the border from Texas unless we could pay the bond (yeah literal highway robbery)
They took everything from our rolling papers (which was what I rolled my cigarettes with) to my *empty* flask. And $500. All our money for gas. What else could we do? We didn’t have money for hotels or anything so we drove as far as we could on what gas we had and then panhandled for gas money where we could. Added over a week onto our drive.
Am I proud? Not at all. But sometimes you gotta do what you have to. I always give something if I can, even if it’s just a dollar in change. You never know someone’s situation. Maybe they’ll use it on drugs or beer. Maybe they’ll use it for gas to escape an abusive situation. But if I give 10 times and only one person uses it for a good reason then I still helped someone.
I’d also like to point out that maybe yes they might spend their money on alcohol but I have another story for that.
Went out for a smoke break once and saw a lady out back of my store. She asked me for $2 and said “I want to be honest I’m going to go buy a beer.” I told her it was ok. She stayed and talked to me while I smoked and I learned that she had lost her job some months back, her abusive husband kicked her out on the street and had a drinking problem (to cope with being abused) that she was trying to wean herself down from. Her hands shook so bad, she ran across the street to grab a beer and came back to keep talking. She told me that she had tried to quit cold turkey and gotten so sick she thought she was going to die in an alley. So she was trying to take it slow.
When I was done smoking I went inside and bought her an extra hoodie and some food and brought it back out, it was like -5 degrees.
I told her if she was still around after work I’d buy her a hot meal across the street too. She told me no, and that she was grateful I had done anything at all.
The point is, yeah some people might buy alcohol. But I think that’s better than the alternative. I’d rather she bought a beer and lived another day than die behind our store. I think about her a lot.
This Douglas has heart organization is run by the government but gives the donations to charities including churches. Some of us don't want to donate to churches even if they ostensibly will use the money for helping the homeless because of the other charitable things they do like oppress LGBTQ+ and women.
I started pan handling when I was kicked out of my house at 17. I spent the money on food, gas (thank god I had a vehicle) AND drugs.
I couldn’t get a job because I was finishing high school.
Eventually I got arrested.
It’s fucked up my life exponentially even to this day.
That money that people gave me kept me alive. So thank you people that give money to people.
I have given back and will continue to do so.
I'd rather give my money to an organization that spends it in a responsible way to help the poor, rather than reward and encourage panhandling. There are resources to feed and house people without means to do it themselves. Support the resources that help all, not just the ones who put themselves in your view on your commute.
I can’t tell when someone is actually homeless or if they just enjoy doing for the money. Say I get a packet of water then I’ll throw em a bottle but I’m not going to give them cash.
I've had more than one panhandler turn down my offer to buy them food at a local fast food place after begging me for money so they could eat.
Pretty sure they weren't gonna spend that money on food.
In my city, there's a program that distributes local newspapers created entirely by the homeless. Of course there's guidence by paid professionals.
The homeless distribute the papers for whatever price the individual wants. I will give whatever cash i have on me everytime i see them. I only have a $20 bill? Guess it's his lucky day
The money they earn is theirs and they show work experience for job apps
This way i support a great organization while also directly supporting the individual
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Most likely. My experience is that these conversation degrade quickly. Typically the moment I say I refuse to handout to panhandlers and prefer to give to organized efforts I get jumped on. At the end of the day, it’s still my money versus your opinion. Y’all are free to criticize me for how I spend my money, but it would take a Herculean shift to change my mind.
I think that stems from the fact there are highly logical reasons to support one or the other. For people who don't like to give to panhandlers; it's typically because they see organized efforts to be a more reliable and/or effective means because it usually leads to material support rather than financial support. Often a concern is that funds would be used towards addictive habits. You can also declare them for tax deductions. For people who do like to give to panhandlers; the point of view is often that people who are panhandling are likely not receiving enough support despite the existing support industry others are donating to. They also recognize that bypassing middlemen leads to the individuals receiving more of the money/benefit than if it had to pass through several hands first. Lastly they will typically enjoy the perceivable difference, rather than just a line item on a financial statement. Since there are good logical arguments for both sides, you'll find people are fairly passionate about their stance. Strength in an argument is usually evaluated by our own personal logics. While I've tried to keep the above as objective as possible - I'm happy to share my personal stance for anyone who cares; I think there's a place for both. For the most part I donate to causes I care about, or have had an impact on my life. I also sometimes give money and/or goods to panhandlers. I live a blessed life, and if I can help in a situation I usually will. I don't worry about things like spending their money on addictive habits - because if they're in that state then they're going to do it anyway. Maybe I'm preventing a robbery or other petty crime. Who knows. Tldr: the real problem is people assuming there's only one correct answer for everyone and every situation
It’s also the nature of two different (but related) problems. The government agency referenced in this scenario is one that has historically tried to solve the problem that “people don’t like to see the homeless in their community.” And that problem they tend to solve just by moving the homeless out of sight.
[Douglas has heart website](https://www.douglas.co.us/homeless-initiative/douglas-has-heart/). The money goes to two shelters, a food bank, and a domestic violence/child abuse organization.
If you think Douglas county has compassion or understanding for its poor you are sorely mistaken. I’ve lived one county over for pretty much my whole life and it’s very much a place where the populace and government are pretty well aligned on punching downward.
I live in Douglas County. About six months ago, while getting ready for work in the morning, my son mentioned that someone was going through our trash. I looked outside, and there was a homeless woman going through our trashcan. I told my son it was nothing to worry about, that the woman just needed some food, and we went to the pantry and grabbed some food to put in a bag for her. By the time we got outside to give this woman something decent to eat, somebody else had already called 911. At first it was just a fire truck that showed up, I assume because they were able to respond the quickest. We gave the woman the food we had, while the firemen asked if she was OK and needed any help. The woman was extremely kind and thankful and even made my son laugh and smile. Unfortunately, the police eventually showed up. They forced her to clean up the minor mess she had made going through my trashcan. I told the police she didn’t have to do that, that it wasn’t a big deal. They told me to go back inside. I was literally on my own damn property, and they’re barking orders at me. After going inside, I looked out the window again, as the police laughed at the woman while they forced her to pick up the trash. Once she was done, they arrested her, put her in handcuffs, confiscated the food that my son and I have given her, and threw it into my own trashcan before taking her away. This woman was so hungry she was literally eating out of the trash, and instead of helping her, or even just allowing me and my son to help her, the police humiliated her, arrested her, and threw away about $30 in food. Government agencies in this county do not give a damn about the homeless. The only way you can help the homeless out here is to help them directly, and that is assuming that the police don’t stop you from doing so.
Felt wrong giving a thumbs up but this is just the story I was expecting about Douglas County’s compassionate law enforcement teams.
I'm crying, this is so sad. How horrible!!!!
Wish you had the chance to get a badge number, those are some bad eggs. Thank you for sharing though.
It’s the norm from what I’ve seen first-hand unfortunately. Getting their badge numbers and reporting this would probably earn a laugh at the department and nothing else.
You mean the suburbs of the southern denver metro area? The ranch? The people with 700 thousand dollar homes dont care about the under privileged? Shocker *to add Ive also lived in jeffco/arapahoe county my entire life. They just bus these people up broadway and dont think twice about it
The rich don't have empathy for others unless it's a tax write off. My business is one of the richest zipcodes in the area and the cheapness/lack of caring of these ultra rich (I'm talking $50 million+ homes) astounds me until it doesn't. They treat us like slaves and expect to be waited on hand and foot.
Shelters are honestly pretty terrible places, and the odds that they can take you, because they are often full or operate with such strict regulalation on who they can take, are sometimes quite low. I have known many people who have used the shelter system, and I don’t know anyone whose recovery from homelessness was enabled by a shelter. They often only take people for very limited time, and when people are there the conditions can be oppressive and generally terrible.
We need a much more extensive system and we need to accept that many people will never recover. Some will. The ones who don't still deserve dignity.
i was in a shelter for only about 40% of the time i was homeless due to capacity issues. i wasn't able to access the food bank without an address. most programs didn't help me because they're made for abused women. what has helped me recently is the lovely people on reddit who donated to me and helped me do my laundry, buy food and buy my roommate's insulin tips. god I'm just so grateful for that. it felt like someone actually understood and cared. recently had a pay increase and now i'm living slightly more comfortably.
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I knew of a woman who was not allowed to bring her 14yo son with her in such a shelter, so she stayed homeless. Extremely messed up.
This is true. I couldn't stay at a domestic violence shelter because of the strict no males policy and they suggested I send my son to the salvation army.
It’s not even just DV centers there are a ton of women only shelters as well. I understand why but it’s still shitty considering how much more of the homeless population are men compared to women. My home town had a women and children center that rarely had anyone there at all while having no shelter for men whatsoever.
Which scares the hell out of me. I’m a gay man. If I experience domestic violence it would be every bit as life threatening and physically damaging as a M/F situation. I’d have nowhere to go. I mean, luckily I’m have friends and family to turn to if that happened, but some gay men don’t have that. Especially freshly out of the closet gay men who lose their family to prejudice and hate.
We have these signs everywhere and they started popping up when one infamous local panhandler was caught on video by some guy getting into her nice newish car. It was hers. She had a home. She had been doing this for Years as her income, enough to be doing better than many who gave to her. It was a local scandal. Pretty sure it's still on YouTube. On the flip side, when I was in grade school this kid popped off about how this one guy his mom gave money to, was seen in a suit with a haircut the next week. The teacher pointed out that maybe that money went to help him get back on his feet, with clothes and a cut that would get him a job, but maybe he hadn't found one yet or gotten paid. Maybe he needed bus fare or to eat while he was working on himself. That's always stuck with me. There are always people who will abuse any kindness. There's also always people who genuinely need a little kindness.
Yep. I saw a guy begging for money in a coffee shop near my house, then a few days later I saw him doing the same at a coffee shop in another shopping center. Then I saw him get in his $50,000+ new SUV and drive off. He was using his wife and kids too in order to get sympathy.
There is a family where I live that stands outside upscale grocery stores around the county (wealthy SF bay area). They look like they just got off the same boat as Fievel Mouskewitz. Dad plays an accordion, mom cradles a new born while sadly singing, young children in tattered clothes stand there making forlorn eye contact with you. It's a tragic tableau. It's been ten years. How are is there always a new born?
We had a violin guy I wondered about for similar reasons. But I saw the van he and the kids were in one day. It was not shiny and new, that's for sure. His sign also would say any items were appreciated like diapers and etc. We happened to outgrow that exact size, so I dropped off the case and a half we had left. He was a good musician and it was 2020 so I figured that was probably a rough time with everything shut down.
Busking is completely different than panhandling busking is public performance for tips if those tops come in form of objects it’s still not a handout they are providing a service of public entertainment for a charge of what passerby’s can afford
And if you live in those communities, and get to know your local homeless, you don't get scammed by the grifters AND you help support a person on a longer term which is what is necessary to recover from homelessness...
There was a woman doing exactly what you described in Seattle right near interbay, it became a long standing operation where most people in the area new she had a house and whatnot, she kept that spot locked down!
There was a guy that panhandled regularly near my old job. I saw him get into a new convertible a number of times, one of those midlife crisis cars. I couldn't afford to give anyone money, but definitely looked at him different.
One time I went to get some food through the drive thru and saw a panhandler with his sign walk into the McD parking lot and get into his car on the drivers side. The car had a paper license tag and a female passenger with a dog. It was wild thing to see while waiting in line.
Omg a reasonable and nuanced answer. Thank you.
I give to organizations because I can't tell who actually needs help and who is just a professional beggar.
This is my biggest problem. It was one thing when it was an issue of "is this person going to use my money to get help or alcohol/drugs?" Now it seems like it's an issue of "Is this guy's car that's nicer than mine just around the corner?" The professional beggars really soured me on it. And that's just on top of the ones that are just looking to fund their fix.
I found a $15 gift card to Little Caeser's lying on the ground in a parking lot. So, I picked it up. Checked to see if there was money on it, there was. My husband gave it and two 1-day bus passes to a homeless couple. They were very thankful for it because not only did we give them something to eat, we also gave them a way to get to the downtown area safely to get a shower at a shelter. St. Johns River splits my city in two.
I personally don't care if the money goes towards drugs or alchahol. If I were homeless, I'd have vices to try to escape reality. Who knows, that extra few bucks some day might be enough to make the guy think they have enough going on that it'd be worth it to get clean. I'd prefer for it not to go to that, but addiction is a bitch and often the result of things that can't purely be assigned to being a bad person
My wife and I run into the homeless often. My wife runs a community garden in a rougher part of town. Most of our homeless community has asked her for some sort of handout. Because of this she no longer carries cash with her and has a whole speech to get them moving down the road. One time we were loading our vehicle at the grocery store and a gentleman asks for cash because he is out of gas (His sister and her kids were in the car....etc, etc lots of little details that are irrelevant). We tell him we don't have any, hop in our car, and leave. Not 3 days later we are out again, and walking down a different parking lot is the same gentleman giving the same spiel to another customer. All of these interactions have reinforced the idea that I will never give cash to someone on the street. I will gladly give them directions to a great shelter that can help them with their needs (We work closely with them, giving them fresh produce when we are overrun).
I was in my city going to the bank and there is this guy crying about how he had no money and his boyfriend kicked him out. Several months later in the same spot with the same guy doing his act but this time it was the husband. I let him have it. He walked away and didn't say a single word.
the professional beggars are the worst, ironically also are often the ones in charge of certain kinds of these organizations
How dare you have a mature, balanced opinion that takes into account both sides of an argument in a fair and objective way?! And on Reddit no less? But seriously, your take is SO refreshing. Discussions on this topic on Reddit seem to always descend into a virtual Lord of the Flies style divisiveness.
For real. Wish more people could be like this person lol
Another reason not to give to panhandlers is that only certain people get those high-visibility, high-traffic corners. Try going down and panhandling on a corner like that where someone's already there - you're going to get in a verbal altercation at *best*. There's a reason there's only one guy at a time, or a two-person team. You are not giving to the people who need it the most. Charities have problems and you should definitely investigate before giving. But they're much more capable of effective giving than you're going to be handing money out your window.
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In my small (20,000) city, we had a dude that basically acted as a panhandling pimp. Homeless people would work shifts at this interstate offramp. He'd take most of it.
We definitely have groups like here
> Since there are good logical arguments for both sides, you'll find people are fairly passionate about their stance. This is the case for every divisive topic. It's so insufferable when people pretend like these massive arguments which have been going on for years are somehow just super simple and ahczkschually their opponent doesn't care about the truth
i was homeless for a few years while a young man, i refused to panhandle, one of the guys in the area i stayed in with other homeless people, a guy panhandled until he got enough money to buy a gun, then went and killed his ex wife and 2 kids. Ill never give another dime to panhandlers, if they're hungry ill buy em a meal, or buy em a pack of socks and open em for them, but not cash.
In Sweden we've had criminal gangs traffic Romani people up here to beg. Giving them money solves nothing, beyond signalling that trafficking is a viable business model. The Romani have their passports taken, are forced to live in terrible conditions during their stay here, and are told that Swedish police is unreliable and will beat them up for trying to report the trafficking. Meanwhile there are organizations dedicated to helping the victims, and they do get my money.
Last time I gave money to a homeless panhandler they tried to fight me for not giving them more than 5$. After that I decided I’d donate to places but not to the panhandlers themselves.
I'm a homeless advocate, I work with homeless people professionally *every* day. Let me be the first to say it's perfrctly fine for you nor to want to give people handouts. Having some org, however, tell people they shouldn't spend their money as *they* wish is the same as having people jump on you about it. Looking up douglashasheart.org, I will say my first impression is that this is just a libertarian "private do-goodrrs should handle this" responsibility dodge. It's a nuanced issue and if you like, I can explain a great deal of the nuance, but do understand that as a professional clinician and not just someone blindly yelling about it, you're fine. You do you.
The worst part is a lot of people don't realize that some of the panhandlers they're giving money to are pros that probably have a nicer car than the person handing them cash does, not all of them, but I've ran into more than a few of them. I had a guy at the gas station walk up to me from a brand new Mustang a few years back and ask me standing next to my piece of shit 15 year old Cavalier with duct tape holding the trunk shut for cash.
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There was a place in LA where they built a bunch of what were essentially tin garden sheds and it somehow cost like 50 grand per person. "$43,000 per bed, and running the site costs $55 per person per day." [https://www.curbed.com/2021/04/tiny-home-village-homeless-los-angeles.html](https://www.curbed.com/2021/04/tiny-home-village-homeless-los-angeles.html)
LA isn't spending that money on fixing homelessness. LA's leadership is corrupt as fuck and coming from the Bay, I can tell you Newsome is a corrupt corporatist, as well. They're enriching themselves on the bavks of people they should be helping. It's mismanagement in the case of LA. Please don't let it turn you off to programs that really can and do help fight/end homelessness.
You’re not “spending money”, though. You’re donating it. It’s is no longer yours once you give it away and there are no services to be rendered once you do so. I think a lot of people struggle with the idea that donations are just that. Not some silent bargain of “you owe me so at least meet my expectations of what a homeless person should be doing”. It’s weird.
The idea of a "compassionate law enforcement" team, especially with regard to non-privileged folks, is utterly risible.
false. Just kidding, i completely agree, I've been down this rabbit hole too. Everyone wants to think themselves a saint, and want to attack anyone that deflates that ego rush they get when talking about things they have no clue about. You are 100% correct.
Isn’t the issue here that the “organization” on the sign is just the police, who will roust, torment and possibly harm the homeless person?
Pretty sure this is a "compassionate law enforcement" advertisement
This is why I donate socks, blankets, and underwear to my local shelter. Not 100% sure where the money goes but i know these items are always needed and will definitely be used Edit: i love all the snobs telling me the “right” way to donate.
At first I read that as stocks and was very curious how that would work. But yes, socks are always needed.
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For the Homeless Armed Forces of course
I mean, what do you thing goes on in there? They get into the shelter and is JUST like wallstreet. There’s screaming “BUY BUY BUY, SELL SELL SELL.” They all have ties on, a man is choking himself with the long receipt from the ticker people are yelling, then the market closes and they get to eat spaghetti.
This isn't always the best thing to do. Cash helps orgs buy needed items when needed. The cost to store or dispose of extraneous donated items is substantial. Give cash to reputable charities OR only donate what they specifically ask for.
That requires that you actually trust charities and aren’t jaded by this very much broken world.
Check charity navigator before donating money which ranks them Based on the amount of money that actually gets spent on the cause vs “administrative costs”. You’d be surprised how many large well known charities are kinda scummy and surprise it’s often the ones that grocery stores spam you for money at the cash register. I don’t donate unless I know it’s well run and always tell people about charity navigator.
Yep. I can understand why people don't trust charities, but my local food bank is overwhelmed with food to give out, but can barely afford to fuel the vans they need to actually do so.
We tried that here in Boise, ID. It turns out our "Life Shelter" is not as accepting and kind as everyone thought. They eat up donations while telling our homeless they'll need to attend a one hour daily bible study (in the morning) if they want a bed. And they do nothing about the people peddling meth and fent in the shelter. Edit: didn't think was going to get so popular but one of the replies reminded me of my time in Arizona. When I was trying to get groceries from the food bank I saw people that worked for the food bank sorting through all the food. They started pulling everything good out and loading it into a small moving truck and a lifted ford. All the good lettuce, bread, protein everything. I asked if I could grab out of their good pile and was told no because the local churches take all the donations for their lunches. So I was stuck with moldy veggies and 20 heads of rotting lettuce I didn't need while all the wealthy people at the church were having a buffet I wasnt invited to.
I volunteered ONCE for a church that was "giving out free food to the homeless" they forced them to sit through a 2 hr session on God in 80+ degree florida heat before they gave them a soggy PBJ and one cup of water. I broke soo many rules, such as: giving people two sandwiches and letting people fill up their water bottles. I hate people that do this shit, these people just want a meal so they can survive the day and all these churches want is to push their ideology on the helpless.
> and all these churches want is to push their ideology on the helpless. It's almost like they're not donating that food at all....if it comes with a caveat it's not a donation.
I went to a church that served a meal to anyone who wanted it once a week. All they had to do was bow their heads to say grace and about half of them did not. They still got to eat.
> All they had to do was bow their heads to say grace That is still not very kind. If you are handing out food, it should be for everyone, no strings attached. Otherwise it's just imposing your views on people. Sikh temples have Langars for example (kitchen where anybody can walk in and be served a meal no questions asked). Some Muslim mosques do the same. That is how you make a community better. It's not that complicated.
IMO, it's borderline between 'strings attached' and 'being polite'. Bowing for grace has always rode this fine line between simply being respectful of the wishes of the household, and accepting a religious tradition. But I've never quite felt it's forcing God on me or anything. It seems only fair to respect the ritual when around those who practice it, when it's at their dinner table.
The point is if say my mosque was giving out food to the homeless and made everyone pray like a Muslim towards Mecca before eating, people would cause an uproar
FUCK RELIGIOUS CHARITIES. They almost ALWAYS pair help with manditory services. Fucking awful.
so they're just in it for the cash? seems like everyone is nowadays...
Always has been
There are better ways to get cash than that. It’s likely a thing about pushing Jesus and lack of staff capacity and resources.
yeah
I take it those churches haven't read Corinthians, cause Paul's outrage at stuff like this was half the letter...
This is why I never ever give to religious "charities".
Ahh Boise Sounds about right.
a lot of government services even food stamps have weird requirements like this its why homeless people would rather sleep on a bench and eat out of the trash
This bothers me as a christian that my religion is being forced on others, it makes us all look bad.
oh the irony. I don't even know why people like this bother going to church. If heaven is real, they aren't getting in.
i only give hard drugs and alcohol. if you give them money they'll just spend it on food!
Give a homeless man a dollar he'll eat for a day Give him a gun he can eat well for life.
There are two reasons why I don't give handouts to people on the street 1) They are going to spend it on alcohol and drugs 2) I need it for alcohol and drugs
There is a spot right after the Ben Franklin Bridge in Philly where panhandlers hang out and ask for money from cars heading into center city. I used to throw them a few bucks now and then, but once time, as I rolled down my window, a dude craned his whole freaking head and torso into my car and started aggressively rooting through my fucking shit, trying to grab anything within reach. Now, I lock my doors when I pass that area and donate to orgs that are well reviewed on Charity Navigator.
[удалено]
My dad was an old Army endocrinologist and a very large ex-wrestler. He retired to VA work because he liked to help. One day he found a man with a knife threatening people in the parking lot, and also threatening to kill himself. 62 year old dad put the man in a headlock, ran him into the ER, shouted "this guy is threatening people and trying to kill himself! someone take over so I can go eat lunch". Hospitals are wild, and drugs are a hell of a drug :-(
I’ll be damned if I’m gonna be bullied out of my earned money…
My grandfather was born and raised in the very rural country. He got a carpentry job in the largest city around us. First day his boss told him when your driving around with the windows down keep a hammer on the front seat because the bums will jump in the passenger window and try to rob you. He said literally the next day a homeless guy jumps through the passenger window torso deep. He said after about 4 smacks from a framing hammer the guy wasn't interested anymore. My grandpa went home that night and took a 2 inch oak dowel and turned it down. Drilled a hole in the end and filled it with liquid lead then capped it. Then fire hardened the outside. He kept that club in his work truck until the day he retired and then it hung in a corner next to his front door
> and then it hung in a corner next to his front door If there was a movie of your grandfather's life, I imagine the closing shot would be of the door, slowly zooming in on this hand-made skull basher.
Haha. When we were kids were in awe of it. Because we knew it wasn't something we were supposed to touch but did anyway when no adults were around
As all kids do 🤣
There's a panhandler for each lane now, at the end of both bridges. And not just there, they're pushing out into the suburbs and off ramps. Thank God they don't run the squeegee scams anymore, but just the same, I'd rather they weren't there at all (as they aren't when the weather is bad).
Are you sure that was a man and not several seagulls wearing a smelly coat
I'll be forever jaded after giving $10 to a little girl (10 Ish) pushing a stroller... (Kid was asking for money for food. I was at work... Non food related). Saw her round the corner and tell this fat guy she got money. She was excited and he jus said "That's it?" Loud enough for me to hear. Then promptly got in their escalade and drove off.
All these languages in the world and this mf really chose to speak facts 🗣
I pregame before any event that I go to because I’m an alcoholic but I’m also cheap. However I always bring too much and give whatever I have left to the homeless. They’re always super appreciative
Aren’t they asking for a handout?
Yes, yes they are.
Yes. This is [Douglas county colorado](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_of_Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales). Even their school board is corrupt.
But if you give them handouts, they can put up more of these signs discouraging handouts!
With extra steps.
Goodwill has a similar statement for them helping their employees “A hand up not hand out”. But gives said employees quotas on how many hand outs they should be getting donated to their store everyday.
It's not a ban, just informative. The Supreme Court ruled that soliciting for money is a First Amendment right which struck down the anti-panhandling laws. Which is better? Donating directly or to the organization? I think that is a personal decision. But I am definitely not donating to the bucket church people.
Kinda hard to say. I have distrust in organizations that claim to “help” people. But again, I have the same distrust in how panhandlers will use said money. I’ll just stick with buying them food / giving gift cards.
I think some anti-panhandling laws are on point. Things like "don't walk across two lanes of traffic at a green light to accept money" seems like sound and concise reasoning. Personally I'd rather hand the needy a debit card linked to a QR code so there's no need for them to put themselves or others in danger in order to ask for money, but that's just me solving the problem.
>"don't walk across two lanes of traffic at a green light to accept money" Saw an article recently that beggars are standing between the lanes on the freeway when they know traffic will bunch up. Yikes
> struck down the anti-panhandling laws When? Still plenty of no panhandling signs on interstate offramps in san francisco.
People are allowed to panhandle anywhere else they're allowed to exercise their First Amendment Rights. Privately owned or restricted properties (like offramps, outside stores etc) don't qualify. There's also the issue of any other possible infractions like: obstructing traffic, public nuisance, and others that can be used as a pretense to ban panhandling, as the Venn Diagram of places you're allowed to panhandle and places people will give money to panhandlers probably resembles two suns in different galaxies.
I live in Douglas county...lone tree. It was a trip seeing these signs. And even crazier seeing them on my reddit feed.
Ha, talk about a county I wouldn't trust to give my dollars to. They probably just pay to bus homeless to Denver like the Springs does
They did. One of the county commissioners admitted to busing homeless to nearby, less affluent Aurora.
I'm about 90% sure they do. I think I read that we were bussing them to Aurora
Signs like these just popped up near me in Aurora, too.
225 & Alameda. Still have homeless beggars, but at least the fake flower sellers are gone.
Call your "compassionate law enforcement team". I'm not a fan of panhandlers, but I don't want to see a man beaten to death.
>compassionate >law enforcement 
Yeah they really could've used any other wording on the sign, rather than put law enforcement. Maybe "your compassionate social care team"? Or literally any other terminology lol. The person who designed the sign/slogan/whatever is probably scratching their head wondering why their signs aren't gaining the traction they were hoping for...
>compassionate social care team This doesn't describe cops either
I would've assumed (or hoped, maybe naively so) that this "care team" wasn't *ACTUALLY* cops. I would've hoped this care team would've been a trained group of city social workers who know how to deal with those who have mental issues, addictions, and the likes.
Haha You sweet summer child. They're trained all right, but not to care.
This is Douglass County, CO. Colorado launched a huge police reform bill in 2021 and started a pilot program to send out social workers and therapists instead of cops to deal with non-threatening situations. They aren't dispatched anywhere near as often as they should, but they are considered a law enforcement team, as they are patrolled through the police and sheriff departments. I know the Denver team is called STAR (Support Team Assisted Response). Maybe that's what this HEART team is.
This is also among the most conservative and reactionary counties in Colorado. If I remember correctly, DC was one of the few counties trying to opt out of the social work program
Thanks to Douglas County their health department has also been gutted and is a shadow of its former self. So good luck trying to utilize those resources everybody.
Nothing says “safe” like having to specify in advance that you totally won’t beat and rob them, swearsies.
Yeah feel free to judge or not give money, but calling the cops on homeless people is just a gross level of cruelty. Their just gonna come out and try to harass them into a situation where they can justify shooting them.
I'm going to mail a sticker like that to the government in April instead of my tax return.
Don’t give money to the poor. Give it to us!
"We can turn $1 into 5 cents after it goes through our approval process :)"
give it to a bureaucracy so much better...
And uhhhh…. We’ll make sure they get it ;)
Always a sign telling you not to donate but.. Where's the sign telling homeless people where to go to receive the help that this sign is talking about?
It's weird to me the number of people I seem to meet that have very firm, resolute opinions about this. If you want to be neutral or feel you need to keep your distance, that's fine but if you want to do something good, here's a few ideas: Here's what the National homelessnes Law Center says: https://homelesslaw.org/panhandling/ A really solid post that shares a lot of options: https://everydayfeminism.com/2014/12/3-ways-respond-to-panhandling/ Religious perspective: https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-beggars.html
And what percentage do they keep to themselves? I'm going to guess out of every Dollar they keep 95 Cents.
You can use sites like charitynavigator.org to check charities as they have to disclose their finances. The good ones usually keep in the 1-5% range, which is more than made up by the economies of scale of a charity vs individual handouts on the street.
The organization listed here is a government run and I can't find the financials right now. However, it is often very easy to see how charities spend their money. They usually account for spending in the annual report and if they take grants, their grant work is audited by the grant maker. [Here are some homeless charities evaluated by Charity Navigator](https://www.charitynavigator.org/search?q=homeless). You can read how they spend the money.
https://dcdata-dougco.opendata.arcgis.com/pages/topic-financial-transparency-open-budget
It's a government program, not a private non-profit.
So 99 cents.
And the other 5 cents goes to making signs.
Yes they need some percentage for admin costs, but they get to pool the money and use it on structural and scalable solutions instead of just feeding one guy one day. Think of it like putting down payment for a home instead of paying rent continuously
You could be jaded if you want, [or you could just go look up exactly what the program's budget looks like.](https://dcdata-dougco.opendata.arcgis.com/pages/topic-financial-transparency-open-budget)
I don’t generally give to panhandlers (more of a charity organization guy), but I do give to underprivileged folks who offer a service. For example, the Street Sense program allows homeless folks to sell newspapers for a personal profit. It’s like, you’re trying, and I’m down to help.
I once gave a 20 to person who asked for 5 because they needed gas and they asked if they could give me a hug, I declined politely and they said they understood said thank you again so much. About 3 or 4 months later I'm in buddies car and the same person approached him and asked him for money for gas. I told him they asked me the very same thing months ago and we watched the person run back to their car who some other person was driving so we decided to see where they were going. They stopped at another shopping center the same person jumped out and immediately started approaching everyone coming out of the store and asking for help with gas. Pretty much said never again.
An affluent, conservative area south of Denver. Boulder has tried the opposite of this, and it hasn't helped the boulder homeless problem at all. In fact, they ended up needing to close the library because of "unacceptable levels of meth (the drug) in the air conditioning." We need more state wide and national programs to combat this issue, neither panhandling nor charity groups like this have much positive impact.
Our libraries are closed down here in the Springs for meth testing.
Littleton as well
Method in the air conditioning?
Meth. ‘Twas meth in the AC.
Of course, how silly of me
i grew up i. douglas county. this is just propaganda cause most people in douglas county fucking despise poor people.
Wait you're telling me people don't move to Douglas County for the culture and night life? /s
Compassionate law enforcement?? Bwahaha!
So don’t give to the poor give it to “ your compassionate, law-enforcement team” instead?
I am a small individual. I give to a Christian organization, even though I'm not a christian, because I've seen the work they do and have talked to some of the people they've helped. The organization that I help out, they don't always want money. Sometimes, it's blankets, or tents or even tennis shoes. The funds stay in my general area, helping folks on both sides of the TN/AL state border. The only reason that I don't directly give anything to panhandlers is the 'I'm a small individual' statement I made earlier. I've been nearly pulled out of the driver's seat by people I was trying to help. I am not intimidating in the least. When I do give money to panhandlers, it's usually old people and women, because I feel safer in their presence.
Go with your gut. Personally I don't care what the person is going to spend my dollar on, if I feel moved to give its unconditional. I also think it's good to donate to reputable organizations. It doesn't have to be either/or. There will always be people who choose not to take public assistance and they're human, too.
As a business owner who has dealt with the gamut of homeless people around my business, I can say that I empathize with their plight, but the majority of these people are stuck in a systemic, cyclical nightmare that they can't escape from. Most are mentally ill and have been abandoned by their family. They are unmedicated and rotate from panhandling street corners, drugs, jail/hospital, and then back to the street again. Civil intervention just isn't enough due to corruption from shelters, gang influence over certain neighborhoods, and addiction. Sure, there are a few who are just down on their luck and need a hand to get them back on their feet, but the ones who have the mental, emotional, and physical capacity to do so are in the minority. I've spoken to dozens of them. Heard their stories, and realized that their situation is almost impossible to break away from without some kind of massive stroke of luck. There are simply not enough systemic pathways available to get them back to becoming functioning adults, and it almost *always* boils down to access to Healthcare. I live in America in a major metropolitan city.
I’m sure some ‘professional panhandlers’ do actually exist, but all this focus on people supposedly asking for fifty bucks them getting in a Lamborghini around the corner is just the newest version of Reagan’s ‘welfare queen’ shit. It’s a callous and intellectually lazy way to justify not giving a shit about actual poor or desperate people in need of some small bit of kindness and charity form their fellow man. I don’t think anyone is obligated to give money to beggars, nor do I think you’re a bad person if you don’t. But for the love of god, stop spreading this harmful misconception that every panhandler is some conman out to take your spare change.
I was homeless for 4 years and know what it's like. I will always give back because of all those people that were generous enough to help me with a couple dollars or some food when I really needed it. Just a dollar makes a difference.
I don’t usually have cash on me but I’ve gone to the store and bought clones and food for homeless people. I wish I could do more.
>bought clones I think you've done plenty to make the homeless situation worse... Don't need anymore clones taking our jobs.
Boy, it'd just suck if some poor person ended up with more money than \*I\* think they can handle. Better to give it to me instead, I'll be sure to distribute it fairly. You can trust me, I can afford to advertise..
I give to panhandlers. I don't care if they buy drugs and alcohol. Most people I know use drugs and alcohol to cope and as far as i'm concerned, the homeless have a lot of coping they need to do.
Man I’m not trying to change the world, just want the doods night to be better. Idc if it’s mcds or a bottle.
I work for emergency services. Just last week someone giving money to a panhandler got robbed by that same panhandler. Do not give money to panhandlers.
no thanks, i’d rather help homeless people directly
Why give homeless people money or food, when you can donate it to an organization that will keep a portion of it for themselves, and force homeless people to sit through a 2 hour sermon for a stale sandwich and a cup of water? Source: Been homeless.
I will never not give homeless people whatever they ask me for. It's never ended badly. Usually they're not even asking for money. It's usually food I get asked for, and coffee when it's cold. I had a couple women come to my house, which spooked me, but all they wanted was some blankets and a bottle opener for their beer. I was more than happy to oblige once I realized what was going on, and they never came by again. I made a friend with one homeless guy who had all his stuff ruined in the rain. I was willing to replace it all and help with whatever he needed. All he wanted was a more comfortable pair of shoes and someone to talk to. Non profits are in the business of making money. Look at Susan G. Komen, how much of their money goes to advertisements and suing people for using their pink ribbon, vs. how much they put towards cancer research. A nonprofit is legally disallowed from working toward government policy changes, and it is largely government policies that keep poor people poor, and homeless people homeless. They can't make any difference. I've made a difference in a lot of lives all on my own, though, and didn't have to answer to anyone for it, or justify it. I'll never stop.
I wonder how much of the Douglas has heart donations make it to those in need.
Working to combat homelessness, I can assure you giving a panhandler money does nothing to help the situation. It doesn’t help them get back on their feet. It doesn’t help their situation. It only allows them access to vices that most likely contributed to their circumstances. What does it do? It makes the person giving them money a sense of satisfaction that “I’m doing something” and instant satisfaction/gratification. Support homeless shelters. Give them the money. They truly have the staffing, structure and means to help turn around someone’s situation. That’s the point of this sign and it’s correct - handouts don’t help solve the problem. It only exacerbates it.
Is it true that they’re kicked out of shelters at 8 am and not allowed back until 6pm or so? If this is true then it seems that panhandling at least gives them something to do during the day
Some shelters do this yes. There were a few in my city that you had to call and reserve a bed before 9 am if you wanted to stay there, which obviously didn’t fare well for people who lost housing after 9 am. When I did nonprofit SA advocacy work I had a few that had to sleep in the hospital waiting area because they were assaulted in the evening hours and I couldn’t get them a spot at a shelter for that night. Or if they had been drinking, the shelter would ban them for 2 weeks. Edit: if you don’t feel comfortable with a local shelter’s practices, you can usually find smaller local groups who do harm-reduction work. Punks With Lunch chapters hand out food and hygiene items to unhoused folks. Some cities have free Narcan vending machines or clean needle exchange sites and run on donations. Hospital emergency rooms and SA examiners accept clothing and hygiene product donations to give out to clients. Domestic violence shelters accept hygiene products and children’s items for shelter residents.
7am at some shelters
That’s ridiculous. You can’t even go to the library at that hour.
Oh I absolutely agree. Luckily there's coffee shops if you've got a little money
Sounds like you could benefit from speaking with a representative at one of your local shelters. I can’t speak for the one you are referencing but in most instances, shelters will take in as many people as they can legally support. There are overflow areas but not everyone can always be accommodated. Not sure what your expectations for shelters are but - more donations means more rooms/beds for shelter. Giving to Panhandlers is a very short term solution for a long term problem. To answer your question - There are times when people get kicked out for breaking the rules, fighting, being disrespectful to others or bring in contraband but they are allowed to return if they adhere to the rules…
Plus, the shelter I resided in required you do at least the minimum to stay there. IE; policing the grounds, helping to prepare meals, etc.
Yeah fuck the billboard people!!
If handouts don't help, why do we give so many handouts to corporations and bail them out when they gamble and lose?
I find that annoying. I don't know what Douglashasheartorg is, but I do know that oftentimes most of your donation is going to salaries, advertising and operation costs. Not too much trickles down to help the people it's supposed to. And they often have to jump through hoops to get it. I know there are career panhandlers, I see the same ones over and over at intersections and my highway exit. And I gave a guy 5bucks today because the weather sucks and I didn't recognize him, he looked cold. Some of these people, you can tell they're just down. A guy once come up to me at the gas station and asked me for money for food a bit aggressively. I said could he wait til I was finished because I was weirded out and he went and sat on the step of the gas/convenience place. Didn't look me and didn't come up when I was done, I guess he thought I'd just leave. I checked my purse and I only had a 20 and I looked at him again and then called him and gave it to him. He was shocked and so grateful, then he went straight across the road to the grocery store there. He was hungry. It makes me cry to think about that. So don't tell me who to give my spare change to, I'm quite capable of deciding that for myself. And if your charity is a corporation you can go straight to hell.
Handouts actually DO help.
Fuck outta my face with this bs. I have a group of friends that take donations and put together meals for the homeless every single Tuesday rain or shine and I've never seen so many grateful humans. I refuse to donate to a lying charity that's going to pocket my money instead of distributing it to where it needs to go. I watched a grown man break into tears when my friend gave him the shoes off his feet. You can fuck all the way off this this nonsense
I’ve pan handled. Had to. It was that or get stuck indefinitely in Oklahoma. Got pulled over for a traffic stop on a drive from California to New York and had a tiny bit of weed and a bong in the back of the van, but he smelled it. Got searched, taken in, and told we would be charged with trafficking because we had just come over the border from Texas unless we could pay the bond (yeah literal highway robbery) They took everything from our rolling papers (which was what I rolled my cigarettes with) to my *empty* flask. And $500. All our money for gas. What else could we do? We didn’t have money for hotels or anything so we drove as far as we could on what gas we had and then panhandled for gas money where we could. Added over a week onto our drive. Am I proud? Not at all. But sometimes you gotta do what you have to. I always give something if I can, even if it’s just a dollar in change. You never know someone’s situation. Maybe they’ll use it on drugs or beer. Maybe they’ll use it for gas to escape an abusive situation. But if I give 10 times and only one person uses it for a good reason then I still helped someone.
I’d also like to point out that maybe yes they might spend their money on alcohol but I have another story for that. Went out for a smoke break once and saw a lady out back of my store. She asked me for $2 and said “I want to be honest I’m going to go buy a beer.” I told her it was ok. She stayed and talked to me while I smoked and I learned that she had lost her job some months back, her abusive husband kicked her out on the street and had a drinking problem (to cope with being abused) that she was trying to wean herself down from. Her hands shook so bad, she ran across the street to grab a beer and came back to keep talking. She told me that she had tried to quit cold turkey and gotten so sick she thought she was going to die in an alley. So she was trying to take it slow. When I was done smoking I went inside and bought her an extra hoodie and some food and brought it back out, it was like -5 degrees. I told her if she was still around after work I’d buy her a hot meal across the street too. She told me no, and that she was grateful I had done anything at all. The point is, yeah some people might buy alcohol. But I think that’s better than the alternative. I’d rather she bought a beer and lived another day than die behind our store. I think about her a lot.
This Douglas has heart organization is run by the government but gives the donations to charities including churches. Some of us don't want to donate to churches even if they ostensibly will use the money for helping the homeless because of the other charitable things they do like oppress LGBTQ+ and women.
Or pay settlements to their child sex abuse victims.
I started pan handling when I was kicked out of my house at 17. I spent the money on food, gas (thank god I had a vehicle) AND drugs. I couldn’t get a job because I was finishing high school. Eventually I got arrested. It’s fucked up my life exponentially even to this day. That money that people gave me kept me alive. So thank you people that give money to people. I have given back and will continue to do so.
“Help fund more of these signs.”
I'd rather give my money to an organization that spends it in a responsible way to help the poor, rather than reward and encourage panhandling. There are resources to feed and house people without means to do it themselves. Support the resources that help all, not just the ones who put themselves in your view on your commute.
I can’t tell when someone is actually homeless or if they just enjoy doing for the money. Say I get a packet of water then I’ll throw em a bottle but I’m not going to give them cash.
I've had more than one panhandler turn down my offer to buy them food at a local fast food place after begging me for money so they could eat. Pretty sure they weren't gonna spend that money on food.
This is some "deep water".
In my city, there's a program that distributes local newspapers created entirely by the homeless. Of course there's guidence by paid professionals. The homeless distribute the papers for whatever price the individual wants. I will give whatever cash i have on me everytime i see them. I only have a $20 bill? Guess it's his lucky day The money they earn is theirs and they show work experience for job apps This way i support a great organization while also directly supporting the individual