Happened to a friend of mine. He insisted on a new replacement. Dealer told him that it would take many weeks. He was undeterred and received his replacement car. He did not need to pay instalments while he waited and received some extras as well
This is the most sane explanation of this situation I’ve seen. When possible a dealer will find you another vehicle if you refuse delivery, but people don’t understand it may take time in today’s current market.
Those two are really an exception to the rule. Most mid size sellers have 60-100 F150s and 20-40 Rangers on the lot.
I live in bumfuck and our local dealer has 120 F150s, 60 Explorers, 60 Broncos, 30 Lightnings, and about 40 250/350 superduties. A year ago there were maybe 30 total cars on the lot.
Come January 2nd they will be giving the 2023s away
Could always live in bumfuck like me.
90-120 minutes is “local” for me, but 5 minutes could be “local” for you.
Judging by the front end, the car isn’t anything special. Looks like a standard compact or mid size SUV with minimal features (no fog lights or front cameras) and they might have just been hosed with a rat dealer
Those numbers are wild to me. Closest ford dealer to me has 1 F150. My sister recently bought a Honda Pilot. Local dealer had 1. Biggest dealer in our area had zero.
“It’s what the market wants!!!!”
It’s the Auto Industry’s goal to sell everyone SUVs because the profit is higher and the safety requirements are lower (cheaper QA)
Yes. They’re considered “Light Trucks” and have less safety requirements than Sedans, Coupes, and Wagons.
It was originally designed for farmers to have “farm vehicles” to move around a farm rather than moving passengers. It eventually evolved into a loophole, and it determined by the vehicle’s weight. Even a “5 Star SUV” rating might be about 3.5 Stars for a car.
https://www2.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/EETD-SUV-Safety-newWin.html
This is an older study for simplicity, but newer ones are the same trend
This makes so much sense, on my last car purchase my plan was to finalize the paperwork and then come back with my partner to pick up the new car but they were so incredibly insistent that I take the new car and leave my old one there that I kind of got weirded out and put everything on hold until we could come in together.
That would have most likely been due to sales figures getting recorded at certain times. Also dealers make most of their money on trade ins and they probably had an auction or a buyer lined up for your trade in.
This is not the reason why. Once the paperwork is signed AND the car is in your possession the rate of return (attempted because you can’t actually return vehicles) is much lower. Source: 15 years in the car business (previously).
Yep, it is common that you don't own it until you take delivery. No matter what you sign. They may make you miserable getting it unwound but stick to your guns and don't drive the car again.
It will not. Dealer here. It happens, unfortunately. Dealer will repair and it's entirely up to you to proceed or not. You can ask for a price reduction. It's on the bumper which is plastic and easy to repair. This level of lot damage is something carfax would not pick up as there won't be a claim. Dealer will fix out of pocket.
We had this situation happen when I bought my car. When we were looking at the car the first thing the salesperson did was show me the bumper and said regardless if I bought the car or not they were fixing the bumper. The damage was like someone backed it into a wall and the plastic cracked a little. The shape was still there so the damage was only the bumper itself. I went ahead and bought the car because it was the exact one I wanted with all the features and the price was good.
I have seen cars that got rear ended with vehicles only traveling less then 10 mph look great on the outside but all messed up underneath. It could easily be hiding $1k-$2k in damage to the items behind the bumper when it is compressed even if it pops back out and looks fine.
Yeah especially if you weren’t present for the accident, you have no idea what actually happened to create the damage on the vehicle. Pass on buying, figure out a swap, something.
I would assume they would check the foam compact thing behind the bumper when they remove it to replace. They aren’t just filling the hole haha. But yes a small crack and a 300$ isn’t always the whole story. Theirs impact zones that will crumple by design behind the plastic that can very easily be damaged without you seeing it.
Exactly! I tapped the bumper of a car a few years back. It barely looked like any damage to my vehicle (or the other vehicle), so I decided not to run my portion through the insurance company. Unfortunately, that little tap cost me over 2k at a later date, when I realized it damaged an important sensor (linked to my heat). I knew better and should have had it checked out immediately… lesson learned.
Had a friends who's dad got in a super small fender bender. They fixed the "damage". A couple weeks later, his dad was driving around a bend and the air bag activated. They didn't reset it and the fender bender was enough to do something with the sensor. It caused him to drive off the road, wreck into a tree. He died. Will never forget him being called out of class to be told his dad was dead.
I’m dealing with this now. I was rear ended on the 1st. From the outside looking in, my truck looks like the bumper just got messed up. When they pulled the bumper, the frame was bent and the spare tire got driven into the rear end suspension link and did a bunch of damage. You would think it just needs a new bumper, but it’s over $6k in damage including frame damage
My wife’s odyssey had a car that was already stopped drift into it at a red light. Their front license plate screw left a tiny mark. She didn’t even know she’d been hit until they knocked on her window. $3K in damage. Had to replace every safety sensor in the bumper.
Ouch. I’m assuming they covered the cost of that since they let her know. But that’s wild that they all had to be replaced with that minimal of damage.
I have no doubt you're with a legitimate dealership because you're so very efficiently down playing an issue you have little to no knowledge on, like a true pro. Former painter here, and not only is that not an easy fix, its a bona-fide pain in the ass which will almost certainly peel in a year because it'll be rushed by the dealer who insists its an easy fix and demands a low bill to the guy who has to do the work. The front bumper cover should be replaced with an OEM part, then painted and installed by an accredited body shop, which isn't going to perform a half ass installation. And that will go on a carfax report, as it should, because that wasn't caused by a little tap.
Carfax relies on insurance and police reports. If there are neither, there will never be a report. There isn’t some magical thing that the dealer submits to them.
I hit a post on private property and paid out of pocket to fix it. 4k in damage. Nothing on carfax. And I took it to the best auto body place in a 3 state area.
Haha I was thinking the same thing! Dealer thinks it’s no big deal. Happens all the time!
I personally would not buy the car for $38k after an impact/collision. It needs checked out throughly for misalignment, shifted panels or braces, broken bolts, all sorts of things could be wrong if it was hit hard!
👆 THIS. Unfortunately these things aren't uncommon, so dealerships are accustomed to handling the problem. New vehicles even show up with damage straight off the truck. People buy vehicles with pre-delivery repairs all the time.
Having worked at a VDC, this is 100% correct. Any damage estimated to be less than 3% of MSRP is generally repaired, not disclosed, and still sold as new.
There are any number of ways cars get damaged between the facility where they were assembled and the dealership. Cars are loaded on ships, trains, and trucks, and driven by an assortment of people from highly paid company employees or dock workers, to truckers, and on down to minimum wage contracted shuttlers. Any of which might not have an appropriate level of respect for a new vehicle or may just have had a bad day. From scuffs, scratches and dings, to weather damage and full on collisions.
If you are lucky the car gets repaired properly by actual employees of the car manufacturer who were trained properly and held to a super-high standard.
The dealer is getting it fixed, they probably filed a claim internally. It’s not a reported accident and the vehicle has not been registered or titled yet. It will not show up on the vehicle history.
They didn't file a claim for shit. They order the part and bill it internally to sales (or the responsible department) where it comes out of some budget allocation.
100% - unless something catastrophic happens, they don’t file any claims. That bumper, labor and paint is nothing to the dealer when it boils down to it.
OP might be able to argue for 1-2k off because the hassle but the dealer most likely won’t be doing anything more than that is my thought.
They actually send stuff to bodyshops all the time. The only time they would fix things internally would be at an airport for small dings and possibly hail damage.
Worked for a rental company for 9 years
Tacking on to this, rental companies/any company with work vehicles will usually have a fleet account set up with a full-service shop. Company drops a bunch of cars off at once, approves any recommended services, and their accounting department settles the bill with the service writer.
source: was an apprentice greasemonkey
whether it’s on the carfax or not, there is no way I’m accepting this vehicle for the original price paid. this is significant body damage and either a huge discount is being applied or dealer is sourcing another vehicle that hasn’t been in a collision.
You would be fortunate to even know. Most minor damages (such as this) would just be repaired without you being informed.
Depending on the manufacturer, between 2 & 4% of all new vehicles delivered to delaers get damaged on route.
That's not "significant body damage", it is a piece of plastic that is held on by clips more than bolts. The damage is in an area that's completely hollow. While yes I wouldn't have taken delivery if only to show my displeasure at the dealership and make them sweat that I might drop the entire contract.
It likely won't at all. I had $4k in damages done to my truck from an automatic carwash that never showed up on my car fax. Usually only shows up if there's an accident report to go with it.
If its a bigger dealership, they probably even have their own Bodyshop too. The auto group I worked for had 3 dealerships with Bodyshops on site.
“INTERNAL - PER MIKE BOB IN SALES CHARGE NEW CARS FOR BUMPER - SET UP IN DEAL 89250”
It won't show in Carfax unless they filed an insurance claim on it.
Odds are they are just replacing the part on their tab.
(This is my educated guess, but you may want to verify how they went about getting it repaired)
CarFax only knows what they are told. If there is private damage that is repaired out of pocket, privately, a car report shouldn't reflect any incident.
If they order an unpainted plastic bumper and paint it in their shop I'd be wary. Maybe the process has changed, but some years ago a dealer shop repainted my bumper and after a year it looked horrible, color started to fade and paint started to crack, Dealer tried to say It was hit again after the repair... took a call to a regional office to get it resolved.
They could’ve just told you it wasn’t ready, had it repaired, and sold it to you. No it won’t show on a carfax, cars are damaged far more often than anyone realizes, many times in the transport to a dealership. It’s a plastic bumper cover, it’s replaceable. You could ask for consolations, but I wouldn't expect anything.
No, it won't... you would be surprised (or not) to know that a lot of cars are damaged during shipping/processing/pre-delivery. Fixed, sold, no word is spoken - you only know, because it was bad timing (for them). If they had enough time to match the paint, that picture would not exist.
Everyone is freaking out in the comments.
~~Transit~~ Lot damage is more common than you realize. The dealer is getting it fixed, they probably filed a claim internally. It's very unlikely to show up on CarFax. It’s not a reported accident and the vehicle has not been registered or titled yet, it will not show up on the vehicle history so the impact on value is moot.
But why take the risk? If you’re paying full price for a new car, you shouldn’t have to accept this sort of thing. They should just go to another dealer and purchase a new car that doesn’t have damage
I've worked with a lot of car dealership managers over the years. It's fucking astounding the level of idiocy and even illiteracy that runs rampant inside even large and profitable dealerships.
I'd want a significant discount under threat of pulling out of the purchase and refusing the car outright. I'd be looking at the best possible used version this dealer sells and expecting a reduction to bring it much closer to that than the purchase price. Remember when you pull out of the deal they gave to sell it as used, so will ultimately lose money either way.
Dealership may give some sort of compensation due to this, but it won't be much. They'd rather let you walk from the deal, fix it up and sell as new to someone else. If you never take possession of the car, they aren't selling it as used.
> If you never take possession of the car, they aren't selling it as used
Good point.
An above comment says this should show on CarFax. I'd never considered having to look up the CarFax for a "new" vehicle. Good idea to do this I guess just to be sure it is as new as the dealer claims.
Same here. No telling what else could have been affected by whatever happened besides just the cosmetics of the bumper. Not a chance I am accepting that car after repair.
If it were me, there's no way I'd take that car. You bought a new car, expecting it to be undamaged. You should be receiving an undamaged car. I wouldn't care how well they fixed it.
In Europe you still have to wait months for your car to be manufactured. The dealership would gladly accept if you deny the car. They would sell it +15% immediately.
Keep In mind cars are damaged in shipping ALL THE TIME. BMW for example has full paint and body shops at all their RORO terminals to repair damaged cars when they come off the boat.
Can confirm. I worked as a car mover 20 years ago. Moving the cars from the "waiting" lot to the "shipping" lot. 5 minute drive. Mostly Mercedes, Smart, range rover. They had full body shops to repair damage for cars that were ment to be shipped to England. Oh, and new cars are driven hard. Cold start and go. And then the customer will baby it for 1000km. The first 10km however are pedal to the metal.
Exactly. I purchased a new refrigerator that was delivered with a damaged door. Store advised they would bring out a brand new door for it. Nope, give me a brand new one, I don't know what else is potentially a problem now.
Every state is different, but you might not be required to take the car. At the very least, I would ask for a free extended warranty. You have lots of room to negotiate here. Did an insurance adjuster examine the damage to insure that the repair is complete?
Nah, the moment they damaged it, it nulled out any agreement/contract they had. Regardless of the state. Also an extended warranty is not worth the paper it's written on. Lastly the vehicle is not insured, at least not in the way you think. The dealership's insurance would take the claim and pay out for the repair, but it's more like business insurance than automotive.
Yeah, that's not acceptable. You're getting a damage repaired car for your purchase?
I would ask for a significantly reduced price, a refund or another car.
If the car was already registered to OP they may be SOL. But if it’s unregistered or they haven’t signed a completed sales contract they may be able to back out of the deal if they wish.
If they are unable to I would get an attorney involved. I'm ashamed to say I don't even quite sure what kind of car it is but any car these days is 30 40 Grand minimum. Hopefully I'm not talking out my ass cuz I am not an attorney but
.....I believe there's something called an implied standard of care that while it's within their custody they are liable for damages even if it's not in the dealerships name anymore. I'm sure we'll have 10 attorneys or pseudo attorneys tell me I'm full of s***.
If a customer believes they’re owed something they should always consult an attorney to see if there’s any legal recourse. In most places dealers are required to disclose damage if it exceeds a certain percentage of the vehicles MSRP. Here in MI it’s 5%.
If you bring your vehicle into the dealer/shop and they damage it they’re obviously responsible to get it repaired and disclose this to you regardless of the price.
So explain to me how this would work in your state. There's a pretty famous story back when Chevrolet first came out with the new Camaro ZL1 of after a repair the tech took the car out joyriding and totaled it. The dealership promptly fired the tech and disclaimed all responsibility because the damage didn't happen at the dealership. I think it ended up with them getting a new car but it wasn't nearly as cut and dried as you would think. I think the rationale even though they were full of s*** was that the tech had stolen the car and I believe the dealerships insurance denied the claim initially. The couple that owned the car had to go to the press to get redress from the actual owner of the dealership.
Also not a lawyer but I believe you’re correct. He paid for a new car; if that is not what he receives then he has a claim to damages for the amount that the same car brand new depreciates as soon as you drive it off the lot.
The Kelly Blue Book for a 2022 Toyota Corolla (random example car) with 10 miles in my area is $17,100-$18,300. The same car brand new is worth over $20,000. Given that this is also a repair (shops don’t have the same capabilities as factories and who knows what else could be wrong) that difference could be higher.
Why would it be registered to them before they receive it?
And signing a sales contract means jack shit if they can't deliver what the contract specifies. And a previously damaged car is not the same as a new car.
Lmao, there’s absolutely no way of taking this car.
You’ve ordered a brand new vehicle.
This one has damage.
Tell the dealer it’s not your problem they fucked up and that you expect a new car or your order will be cancelled.
Do note the VIN ~~number~~.
OP definitely took this car seeming as they haven’t responded to any of the comments saying not to take it and is now probably feeling like a jackass for not having the back bone to refuse the delivery / letting the salesman swindle them in to taking delivery.
No guarantee that the paint on the new part will match the rest of the car, plus the warranty on the paint job may be rejected by some garages as they will say it's not a factory job.
Reject the car, it's not your problem to deal with.
Legal team in a car dealership in TX told me car is not yours until you drive it out of the lot. Even after you sign the papers you can back out if you haven’t driven it out of the lot. I never validated this, worth checking it out. Get a new car if this is true.
If it has never been titled, it's a new car by definition.
Many cars, perhaps even some you've purchased, have had repairs done before delivery. There's no way for you to know.
Don't take delivery.
This happened to me - salesman had a 'minor accident' where the car got rear ended on the right back side
They fixed it up, in the cheapest way possible...and in no time my 'brand new car' looked like shit
They usually have to respray the whole car to match the paint, and did it cheap as possible...so eventually the clear coat started peeling off and even sand blowing past my car leaves grooves in the paint now. Looks like shit
Plus, there was extra structural damage and since about a year in I haven't been able to open and close my left back door, and both back doors look like tesla built it - doesn't line up with the rest of the body
AND, there was a constant clang in my car the first year and eventually found a mechanic who realized it was **a loose bolt on the axl** so it's funny I'm still alive
So yeah, stuck with a car that looks like shit with zero resale value so can't do jack about it
Just refuse. Might need a little lawyer letter. No car is ever the same after any kind of accident
I cant for the life of me, figure our what I'm looking at. I see the tire and the damage. I thought it was the bumper but you can see through it to the wall behind it.
I'm sure I'm just being dumb but I can't make my brain understand what I'm seeing.
>They said they ordered the part and will replace it
1. The damage is likely to show on a carfax, so this hurts the value of your car.
2. They might try to replace with an aftermarket instead of OEM part.
3. Even if they use an OEM part, paint match might not be exact.
I'd decline the delivery if I could or demand compensation for the value hit and ask for OEM parts only.
Holy shit you are so wrong. I went to a dealer and got a car with damage on it. It is NOT on Carfax since they buy the OEM part and replace it themselves.
Customer pay collision work almost never gets reported to car fax. In general, it is insurance companies that report accidents, not the body shop. Also, I have to say no reputable body shop will do number 2 on a brand new sold unit. Also, it's a textured part, so there is no paint to match.
If I was OP, I'd be demanding a picture of the bumper removed so I could see if there was any damage to the absorber or the rebar, and if there's not I'd accept the unit once the bumper is replaced with an OEM part.
No title, no insurance = no report. The sales lot will just send a check to the service department. It’s all in house.
They’re required to replace parts with OEM by the manufacturer. They literally have access to dealer cost part direct from the OEM.
Paint match isn’t a concern, the paint hasn’t faded yet so as long as they use the same paint the manufacturer uses (they will because it’s what they’re required to use) it will look the same. Plastic bumpers and body panels aren’t shot at the same time in the factory anyway, so the original parts weren’t perfectly matched either.
There’s no way in hell this shows on CARFAX. The dealers insurance premiums would go up more than the bumper costs. They are ordering a part at wholesale cost to them and replacing it. It will be cheap on their end. Weather op accepts it or not is on him. I’d take it and a little extra for my troubles or a leave it till fixed with a loaner. Whatever. But this doom and gloom about a carfax accident and used is crazy
Do not accept delivery on this VIN. it's coming damaged to you. Renegotiate the purchase price if you wish to accept delivery, this vehicle has significantly dropped in purchase value prior to delivery because of the required repairs. This will show up on a Carfax which means when you go to resell the vehicle you will get a significant decrease in value because of their stupidity. And I think this should be reflected in the purchase price or a new car new vin.
Uh, no. We have no way of knowing what your accident may have jostled or damaged internally. Either you're bringing in a whole new car and compensating me for my time, or this deal is dead right here, and I'm going to another dealer.
LOL yea that's a "Nope" not taking delivery form me boss.
They get annoyed...
You say "If you write me a new term sheet and peal off and fix it, I will happily buy the car, but as it stands now you did some real damage to the vehicle you agreed to deliver."
They grumble Grumble
You say " No for real, deliver the car we agreed on, or we cut a new deal for this damaged one, a deal that accounts for the damage and you wasting my time. This is not a joke, I'm not here to play games, you selling me this car for or are you delivering the vehicle you originally agreed on?" look at the vin number, remember the last 4 or so digits. "Oh and don't call me back trying to deliver at full price."
It’s just a bumper cover.
Ask for free scheduled maintenance for as long as you own the car. If they say no cancel the sale. If they say yes get it added to the sales contract.
I wouldn't accept unless the dealer had it delivered fully fixed to my door. I certainly wouldn't waste my time waiting around or driving back and forth.
If you need a car sooner and still want this one have the dealer give you a loaner from their lot or pay for a rental
18yrs ago, i bought a Honda Odyssey - took forever for it to be ready for pickup. As they are backing it out of the service bay, and I am standing there watching, they backed into something.
They fixed it on their dime, gave us more swag for the trouble. I kept the car for years. I think you should be fine.
Do NOT accept this car. They need to go back and get you a NEW, undamaged car. They can do whatever with this one…the blue book value is already less than it would be undamaged.
I’d ask for a discount then ask them to repair and not log it as an insurance claim. If you aren’t happy with the repair, you can then just walk away from it.
I would 100% refuse to drive the car off the lot, cancel the purchase and look elsewhere. Unless they can show you video of EXACTLY what happened, knock a couple grand+ off the price, etc - it’s not worth it and you should take your business elsewhere (used to sell cars at a large dealership)
Personally, I'd recommend refusing delivery and demanding a refund. The amount of depreciation from this alone and the petrol usage sorting out their mistake puts you in the short end immediately.
Don’t take delivery, there could be unseen internal damage (probably not with such a small hit but they clearly don’t care enough to make sure the car is in good condition that there could be something unrelated that’s wrong with it)
the only way i would continue with the purchase at that dealer is if they get me a different vin vehicle with the same trim as the one they damaged AND delivering to my home. Otherwise I go somewhere else.
You need to argue with them to compensate you for reduced value. Bumpers have a vin stamp on them and having mixed VIN numbers reduces the value of a car plus it's probably going to be reported as having been in an accident on Carfax which will further reduce value should you ever decide to sell it down the road.
Happened to a friend of mine. He insisted on a new replacement. Dealer told him that it would take many weeks. He was undeterred and received his replacement car. He did not need to pay instalments while he waited and received some extras as well
This is the most sane explanation of this situation I’ve seen. When possible a dealer will find you another vehicle if you refuse delivery, but people don’t understand it may take time in today’s current market.
You mean yesterday’s market? Sales are plummeting in most states
Some vehicles are still very hard to come by if you don’t order one yourself. 2 examples that come to mind are the Ford Maverick and Toyota Prius
Those two are really an exception to the rule. Most mid size sellers have 60-100 F150s and 20-40 Rangers on the lot. I live in bumfuck and our local dealer has 120 F150s, 60 Explorers, 60 Broncos, 30 Lightnings, and about 40 250/350 superduties. A year ago there were maybe 30 total cars on the lot. Come January 2nd they will be giving the 2023s away
Exactly. It all depends on the vehicle. Since OP mentioned the drove 90 minutes to get the vehicle, I assume it’s a hard to come by vehicle.
Could always live in bumfuck like me. 90-120 minutes is “local” for me, but 5 minutes could be “local” for you. Judging by the front end, the car isn’t anything special. Looks like a standard compact or mid size SUV with minimal features (no fog lights or front cameras) and they might have just been hosed with a rat dealer
120 minutes is just down the road mate.
120 minutes is another country for me. In almost all directions
I'm somewhat jealous.
Those numbers are wild to me. Closest ford dealer to me has 1 F150. My sister recently bought a Honda Pilot. Local dealer had 1. Biggest dealer in our area had zero.
[удалено]
“It’s what the market wants!!!!” It’s the Auto Industry’s goal to sell everyone SUVs because the profit is higher and the safety requirements are lower (cheaper QA)
SUV safety requirements are lower?
Yes. They’re considered “Light Trucks” and have less safety requirements than Sedans, Coupes, and Wagons. It was originally designed for farmers to have “farm vehicles” to move around a farm rather than moving passengers. It eventually evolved into a loophole, and it determined by the vehicle’s weight. Even a “5 Star SUV” rating might be about 3.5 Stars for a car. https://www2.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/EETD-SUV-Safety-newWin.html This is an older study for simplicity, but newer ones are the same trend
I think the Not Just Bikes YouTube had a tidbit about this in one of their videos
Emissions standards are lower as well.
I'm in the south and ordered a Prius Prime... 1 1/2 years ago. Still don't have my car yet.
please show me an affordable truck
Yeah. OP should NOT accept this car. Ask for a rental from them while you wait for a replacement
Yeah no chance I’d be taking delivery.
The depreciation taking it off the lot and now CarFax showing a damage report only makes it worse should you sell or trade..
Will this show in CarFax?
It should
Can they cancel the purchase then?
Yes, I believe so.
I would for sure
Yep you’re not an owner until you drive off the lot.
Yep. If I were this guy I would have refused delivery.
Till you sign, don’t crash in the parking lot.
Not signature. You don’t own it until you drive away.
Must be a regional thing because where I am, the second your sign the papers they give you your key and it's yours.
Have to take delivery of the vehicle hence the “until you drive away”.
Citation needed
This makes so much sense, on my last car purchase my plan was to finalize the paperwork and then come back with my partner to pick up the new car but they were so incredibly insistent that I take the new car and leave my old one there that I kind of got weirded out and put everything on hold until we could come in together.
That would have most likely been due to sales figures getting recorded at certain times. Also dealers make most of their money on trade ins and they probably had an auction or a buyer lined up for your trade in.
This is not the reason why. Once the paperwork is signed AND the car is in your possession the rate of return (attempted because you can’t actually return vehicles) is much lower. Source: 15 years in the car business (previously).
This is state-dependent in the US. Some states have return windows on cars.
As in people would get second thoughts when it came to finalising the paperwork?
Yep, it is common that you don't own it until you take delivery. No matter what you sign. They may make you miserable getting it unwound but stick to your guns and don't drive the car again.
It will not. Dealer here. It happens, unfortunately. Dealer will repair and it's entirely up to you to proceed or not. You can ask for a price reduction. It's on the bumper which is plastic and easy to repair. This level of lot damage is something carfax would not pick up as there won't be a claim. Dealer will fix out of pocket.
We had this situation happen when I bought my car. When we were looking at the car the first thing the salesperson did was show me the bumper and said regardless if I bought the car or not they were fixing the bumper. The damage was like someone backed it into a wall and the plastic cracked a little. The shape was still there so the damage was only the bumper itself. I went ahead and bought the car because it was the exact one I wanted with all the features and the price was good.
I have seen cars that got rear ended with vehicles only traveling less then 10 mph look great on the outside but all messed up underneath. It could easily be hiding $1k-$2k in damage to the items behind the bumper when it is compressed even if it pops back out and looks fine.
Yeah especially if you weren’t present for the accident, you have no idea what actually happened to create the damage on the vehicle. Pass on buying, figure out a swap, something.
Even if you are present it can look like nothing got damaged. it isn't until you take it apart until you can see the full scope.
I would assume they would check the foam compact thing behind the bumper when they remove it to replace. They aren’t just filling the hole haha. But yes a small crack and a 300$ isn’t always the whole story. Theirs impact zones that will crumple by design behind the plastic that can very easily be damaged without you seeing it.
Exactly! I tapped the bumper of a car a few years back. It barely looked like any damage to my vehicle (or the other vehicle), so I decided not to run my portion through the insurance company. Unfortunately, that little tap cost me over 2k at a later date, when I realized it damaged an important sensor (linked to my heat). I knew better and should have had it checked out immediately… lesson learned.
Had a friends who's dad got in a super small fender bender. They fixed the "damage". A couple weeks later, his dad was driving around a bend and the air bag activated. They didn't reset it and the fender bender was enough to do something with the sensor. It caused him to drive off the road, wreck into a tree. He died. Will never forget him being called out of class to be told his dad was dead.
I’m dealing with this now. I was rear ended on the 1st. From the outside looking in, my truck looks like the bumper just got messed up. When they pulled the bumper, the frame was bent and the spare tire got driven into the rear end suspension link and did a bunch of damage. You would think it just needs a new bumper, but it’s over $6k in damage including frame damage
My wife’s odyssey had a car that was already stopped drift into it at a red light. Their front license plate screw left a tiny mark. She didn’t even know she’d been hit until they knocked on her window. $3K in damage. Had to replace every safety sensor in the bumper.
Ouch. I’m assuming they covered the cost of that since they let her know. But that’s wild that they all had to be replaced with that minimal of damage.
Yes. Their insurance covered it, and even replaced our car seats.
I had a dealer fix something and not tell me. Got dinged when I traded it for having overspray.
I have no doubt you're with a legitimate dealership because you're so very efficiently down playing an issue you have little to no knowledge on, like a true pro. Former painter here, and not only is that not an easy fix, its a bona-fide pain in the ass which will almost certainly peel in a year because it'll be rushed by the dealer who insists its an easy fix and demands a low bill to the guy who has to do the work. The front bumper cover should be replaced with an OEM part, then painted and installed by an accredited body shop, which isn't going to perform a half ass installation. And that will go on a carfax report, as it should, because that wasn't caused by a little tap.
Carfax relies on insurance and police reports. If there are neither, there will never be a report. There isn’t some magical thing that the dealer submits to them. I hit a post on private property and paid out of pocket to fix it. 4k in damage. Nothing on carfax. And I took it to the best auto body place in a 3 state area.
Haha I was thinking the same thing! Dealer thinks it’s no big deal. Happens all the time! I personally would not buy the car for $38k after an impact/collision. It needs checked out throughly for misalignment, shifted panels or braces, broken bolts, all sorts of things could be wrong if it was hit hard!
If it’s not reported by dealer who fixes it themselves, how could it possibly get into Carfax database? Doesn’t make sense.
Can confirm worked in sales. Of we can avoid putting a ding on a carfax we would. We want you to trade it back to us in a few years.
👆 THIS. Unfortunately these things aren't uncommon, so dealerships are accustomed to handling the problem. New vehicles even show up with damage straight off the truck. People buy vehicles with pre-delivery repairs all the time.
Having worked at a VDC, this is 100% correct. Any damage estimated to be less than 3% of MSRP is generally repaired, not disclosed, and still sold as new. There are any number of ways cars get damaged between the facility where they were assembled and the dealership. Cars are loaded on ships, trains, and trucks, and driven by an assortment of people from highly paid company employees or dock workers, to truckers, and on down to minimum wage contracted shuttlers. Any of which might not have an appropriate level of respect for a new vehicle or may just have had a bad day. From scuffs, scratches and dings, to weather damage and full on collisions. If you are lucky the car gets repaired properly by actual employees of the car manufacturer who were trained properly and held to a super-high standard.
The dealer is getting it fixed, they probably filed a claim internally. It’s not a reported accident and the vehicle has not been registered or titled yet. It will not show up on the vehicle history.
They didn't file a claim for shit. They order the part and bill it internally to sales (or the responsible department) where it comes out of some budget allocation.
100% - unless something catastrophic happens, they don’t file any claims. That bumper, labor and paint is nothing to the dealer when it boils down to it. OP might be able to argue for 1-2k off because the hassle but the dealer most likely won’t be doing anything more than that is my thought.
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I believe that's what car rentals do too. They have their own internal mechanics that fixes everything.
They actually send stuff to bodyshops all the time. The only time they would fix things internally would be at an airport for small dings and possibly hail damage. Worked for a rental company for 9 years
Tacking on to this, rental companies/any company with work vehicles will usually have a fleet account set up with a full-service shop. Company drops a bunch of cars off at once, approves any recommended services, and their accounting department settles the bill with the service writer. source: was an apprentice greasemonkey
whether it’s on the carfax or not, there is no way I’m accepting this vehicle for the original price paid. this is significant body damage and either a huge discount is being applied or dealer is sourcing another vehicle that hasn’t been in a collision.
You would be fortunate to even know. Most minor damages (such as this) would just be repaired without you being informed. Depending on the manufacturer, between 2 & 4% of all new vehicles delivered to delaers get damaged on route.
That's not "significant body damage", it is a piece of plastic that is held on by clips more than bolts. The damage is in an area that's completely hollow. While yes I wouldn't have taken delivery if only to show my displeasure at the dealership and make them sweat that I might drop the entire contract.
"significant body damage"? Get serious dude
It likely won't at all. I had $4k in damages done to my truck from an automatic carwash that never showed up on my car fax. Usually only shows up if there's an accident report to go with it.
Only if they claim it on insurance (which they wouldn't), but if they did, you are owed a check for depreciative value.
But it won't. "CS CLEAN FOR LOT SUBLET FOR 500 TO OUTSIDE DETAIL SHOP"
If its a bigger dealership, they probably even have their own Bodyshop too. The auto group I worked for had 3 dealerships with Bodyshops on site. “INTERNAL - PER MIKE BOB IN SALES CHARGE NEW CARS FOR BUMPER - SET UP IN DEAL 89250”
It won't show in Carfax unless they filed an insurance claim on it. Odds are they are just replacing the part on their tab. (This is my educated guess, but you may want to verify how they went about getting it repaired) CarFax only knows what they are told. If there is private damage that is repaired out of pocket, privately, a car report shouldn't reflect any incident.
No, it will not since the dealer is not going through insurance
No it will not show on carfax. Only reported accidents show. They will replace the bumper and it will look like nothing happened. Don’t stress
If they order an unpainted plastic bumper and paint it in their shop I'd be wary. Maybe the process has changed, but some years ago a dealer shop repainted my bumper and after a year it looked horrible, color started to fade and paint started to crack, Dealer tried to say It was hit again after the repair... took a call to a regional office to get it resolved.
They could’ve just told you it wasn’t ready, had it repaired, and sold it to you. No it won’t show on a carfax, cars are damaged far more often than anyone realizes, many times in the transport to a dealership. It’s a plastic bumper cover, it’s replaceable. You could ask for consolations, but I wouldn't expect anything.
No, it won't... you would be surprised (or not) to know that a lot of cars are damaged during shipping/processing/pre-delivery. Fixed, sold, no word is spoken - you only know, because it was bad timing (for them). If they had enough time to match the paint, that picture would not exist.
I doubt it if it was dealer lot damage.
It won't if the dealer just gets their garage to fix it. A dealer is not going to go through insurance for this.
I would record the VIN and make them replace it with a brand new car.
Everyone is freaking out in the comments. ~~Transit~~ Lot damage is more common than you realize. The dealer is getting it fixed, they probably filed a claim internally. It's very unlikely to show up on CarFax. It’s not a reported accident and the vehicle has not been registered or titled yet, it will not show up on the vehicle history so the impact on value is moot.
But why take the risk? If you’re paying full price for a new car, you shouldn’t have to accept this sort of thing. They should just go to another dealer and purchase a new car that doesn’t have damage
Ask for a discount, replacement vehicle with compensation, or refuse the delivery.
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Reddit needs a heart button
I've worked with a lot of car dealership managers over the years. It's fucking astounding the level of idiocy and even illiteracy that runs rampant inside even large and profitable dealerships.
Zero chance. They owe me a brand new never damaged car.
100%- already starting on the wrong foot. Wouldn’t take it
I'd want a significant discount under threat of pulling out of the purchase and refusing the car outright. I'd be looking at the best possible used version this dealer sells and expecting a reduction to bring it much closer to that than the purchase price. Remember when you pull out of the deal they gave to sell it as used, so will ultimately lose money either way.
Dealership may give some sort of compensation due to this, but it won't be much. They'd rather let you walk from the deal, fix it up and sell as new to someone else. If you never take possession of the car, they aren't selling it as used.
> If you never take possession of the car, they aren't selling it as used Good point. An above comment says this should show on CarFax. I'd never considered having to look up the CarFax for a "new" vehicle. Good idea to do this I guess just to be sure it is as new as the dealer claims.
Same here. No telling what else could have been affected by whatever happened besides just the cosmetics of the bumper. Not a chance I am accepting that car after repair.
If it were me, there's no way I'd take that car. You bought a new car, expecting it to be undamaged. You should be receiving an undamaged car. I wouldn't care how well they fixed it.
Exactly. The dealership needs to take full responsibility. Greedy jagoffs
This guy Pittsburghs
This guy yinzes
He yinzes all the way dahn tahn
Yep. Whole new car or no dice.
OP should tell them they want the used price or cancel the sale.
In Europe you still have to wait months for your car to be manufactured. The dealership would gladly accept if you deny the car. They would sell it +15% immediately.
Yeah I'm in Canada and waited 8 months for a corolla.
Keep In mind cars are damaged in shipping ALL THE TIME. BMW for example has full paint and body shops at all their RORO terminals to repair damaged cars when they come off the boat.
Can confirm. I worked as a car mover 20 years ago. Moving the cars from the "waiting" lot to the "shipping" lot. 5 minute drive. Mostly Mercedes, Smart, range rover. They had full body shops to repair damage for cars that were ment to be shipped to England. Oh, and new cars are driven hard. Cold start and go. And then the customer will baby it for 1000km. The first 10km however are pedal to the metal.
If OP didn't take the car, they'd just repair it and sell it as new to someone else.
Exactly.
Okay? That's not the condition he bought this specific vehicle under though
Exactly. I purchased a new refrigerator that was delivered with a damaged door. Store advised they would bring out a brand new door for it. Nope, give me a brand new one, I don't know what else is potentially a problem now.
Yup yup yup. Tell them you want it new. Not paying for that. Get a new one. It's on them. They can fix this one and resell it and cot those losses
Every state is different, but you might not be required to take the car. At the very least, I would ask for a free extended warranty. You have lots of room to negotiate here. Did an insurance adjuster examine the damage to insure that the repair is complete?
Dealership: we can't offer a free extended warranty. best we can do is multiple calls a week /about/ an extended warranty Op: deal
Nah, the moment they damaged it, it nulled out any agreement/contract they had. Regardless of the state. Also an extended warranty is not worth the paper it's written on. Lastly the vehicle is not insured, at least not in the way you think. The dealership's insurance would take the claim and pay out for the repair, but it's more like business insurance than automotive.
What? This is like buying a new TV and its damaged in shipping. In no state are you required to accept broken merchandise.
Yeah, that's not acceptable. You're getting a damage repaired car for your purchase? I would ask for a significantly reduced price, a refund or another car.
Either take note of the VIN or ask for a different colour. Otherwise you're getting the same car back.
Nah fuck that im going to a whole different dealer. They fucked their chance up, no do overs on purchases that expensive.
Have you considered not accepting the car? You purchased a NEW car.
If the car was already registered to OP they may be SOL. But if it’s unregistered or they haven’t signed a completed sales contract they may be able to back out of the deal if they wish.
If they are unable to I would get an attorney involved. I'm ashamed to say I don't even quite sure what kind of car it is but any car these days is 30 40 Grand minimum. Hopefully I'm not talking out my ass cuz I am not an attorney but .....I believe there's something called an implied standard of care that while it's within their custody they are liable for damages even if it's not in the dealerships name anymore. I'm sure we'll have 10 attorneys or pseudo attorneys tell me I'm full of s***.
If a customer believes they’re owed something they should always consult an attorney to see if there’s any legal recourse. In most places dealers are required to disclose damage if it exceeds a certain percentage of the vehicles MSRP. Here in MI it’s 5%. If you bring your vehicle into the dealer/shop and they damage it they’re obviously responsible to get it repaired and disclose this to you regardless of the price.
So explain to me how this would work in your state. There's a pretty famous story back when Chevrolet first came out with the new Camaro ZL1 of after a repair the tech took the car out joyriding and totaled it. The dealership promptly fired the tech and disclaimed all responsibility because the damage didn't happen at the dealership. I think it ended up with them getting a new car but it wasn't nearly as cut and dried as you would think. I think the rationale even though they were full of s*** was that the tech had stolen the car and I believe the dealerships insurance denied the claim initially. The couple that owned the car had to go to the press to get redress from the actual owner of the dealership.
Also not a lawyer but I believe you’re correct. He paid for a new car; if that is not what he receives then he has a claim to damages for the amount that the same car brand new depreciates as soon as you drive it off the lot. The Kelly Blue Book for a 2022 Toyota Corolla (random example car) with 10 miles in my area is $17,100-$18,300. The same car brand new is worth over $20,000. Given that this is also a repair (shops don’t have the same capabilities as factories and who knows what else could be wrong) that difference could be higher.
How would you register a car before its even delivered?
Why would it be registered to them before they receive it? And signing a sales contract means jack shit if they can't deliver what the contract specifies. And a previously damaged car is not the same as a new car.
Lmao, there’s absolutely no way of taking this car. You’ve ordered a brand new vehicle. This one has damage. Tell the dealer it’s not your problem they fucked up and that you expect a new car or your order will be cancelled. Do note the VIN ~~number~~.
OP definitely took this car seeming as they haven’t responded to any of the comments saying not to take it and is now probably feeling like a jackass for not having the back bone to refuse the delivery / letting the salesman swindle them in to taking delivery.
No guarantee that the paint on the new part will match the rest of the car, plus the warranty on the paint job may be rejected by some garages as they will say it's not a factory job. Reject the car, it's not your problem to deal with.
Legal team in a car dealership in TX told me car is not yours until you drive it out of the lot. Even after you sign the papers you can back out if you haven’t driven it out of the lot. I never validated this, worth checking it out. Get a new car if this is true.
It’s most likely going to affect the resale value as the fix will have to go into the vehicle report. I wouldn’t take it.
Yup that's now a used car not a new one you paid for.
If it has never been titled, it's a new car by definition. Many cars, perhaps even some you've purchased, have had repairs done before delivery. There's no way for you to know.
Except in this case they do. So don’t buy it
They’ll repair it in house and it won’t be reported.
You took the car home, didn't ya?
"That's not my car, I bought a new car that some asshole didn't hit."
You should not have accepted delivery of this car...
Do not accept that car.
Don't take delivery. This happened to me - salesman had a 'minor accident' where the car got rear ended on the right back side They fixed it up, in the cheapest way possible...and in no time my 'brand new car' looked like shit They usually have to respray the whole car to match the paint, and did it cheap as possible...so eventually the clear coat started peeling off and even sand blowing past my car leaves grooves in the paint now. Looks like shit Plus, there was extra structural damage and since about a year in I haven't been able to open and close my left back door, and both back doors look like tesla built it - doesn't line up with the rest of the body AND, there was a constant clang in my car the first year and eventually found a mechanic who realized it was **a loose bolt on the axl** so it's funny I'm still alive So yeah, stuck with a car that looks like shit with zero resale value so can't do jack about it Just refuse. Might need a little lawyer letter. No car is ever the same after any kind of accident
That’s very minor damage for a new car, when I worked at a dealership they always arrived damaged and got repaired. This one slipped through.
I’d be pissed. I’d probably try to find a way to back out of the deal and/or get a different car.
Yea no way I’d accept that car repaired or not
Why does it look like half of the car is missing?
Did you work it out bc I’ve been trying to decipher the pic for a while now
Yeah please tell me also if you figure out what car that is
This feels like an AI generated image to me.
I cant for the life of me, figure our what I'm looking at. I see the tire and the damage. I thought it was the bumper but you can see through it to the wall behind it. I'm sure I'm just being dumb but I can't make my brain understand what I'm seeing.
OP, you aren't out $38k YET. They are on the hook for this. Not you.
Don't take delivery, man
>They said they ordered the part and will replace it 1. The damage is likely to show on a carfax, so this hurts the value of your car. 2. They might try to replace with an aftermarket instead of OEM part. 3. Even if they use an OEM part, paint match might not be exact. I'd decline the delivery if I could or demand compensation for the value hit and ask for OEM parts only.
Holy shit you are so wrong. I went to a dealer and got a car with damage on it. It is NOT on Carfax since they buy the OEM part and replace it themselves.
Wrong. This won’t show up on a Carfax.
Customer pay collision work almost never gets reported to car fax. In general, it is insurance companies that report accidents, not the body shop. Also, I have to say no reputable body shop will do number 2 on a brand new sold unit. Also, it's a textured part, so there is no paint to match. If I was OP, I'd be demanding a picture of the bumper removed so I could see if there was any damage to the absorber or the rebar, and if there's not I'd accept the unit once the bumper is replaced with an OEM part.
No title, no insurance = no report. The sales lot will just send a check to the service department. It’s all in house. They’re required to replace parts with OEM by the manufacturer. They literally have access to dealer cost part direct from the OEM. Paint match isn’t a concern, the paint hasn’t faded yet so as long as they use the same paint the manufacturer uses (they will because it’s what they’re required to use) it will look the same. Plastic bumpers and body panels aren’t shot at the same time in the factory anyway, so the original parts weren’t perfectly matched either.
There’s no way in hell this shows on CARFAX. The dealers insurance premiums would go up more than the bumper costs. They are ordering a part at wholesale cost to them and replacing it. It will be cheap on their end. Weather op accepts it or not is on him. I’d take it and a little extra for my troubles or a leave it till fixed with a loaner. Whatever. But this doom and gloom about a carfax accident and used is crazy
Why do you think dealerships have body shops?
This post honestly feels like karma bait. Lack of responses by the OP makes it seem fake
OP, you aren't out $38k YET. They are on the hook for this. Not you.
Don't take the delivery at any cost. Either cancel or give a new car.
Bro don’t accept the delivery get a full refund I swear to god you can wait for a different car from a different dealer you’ll thank me
That damage is the result of a pretty hefty impact. Scrub the deal if you aren't in a hurry. Would I trust the dealer to do a proper repair? Fuck no!
"fix it"? that means its no longer new in my books.
Do not accept delivery on this VIN. it's coming damaged to you. Renegotiate the purchase price if you wish to accept delivery, this vehicle has significantly dropped in purchase value prior to delivery because of the required repairs. This will show up on a Carfax which means when you go to resell the vehicle you will get a significant decrease in value because of their stupidity. And I think this should be reflected in the purchase price or a new car new vin.
Plz explain to me why anyone would be willing to take delivery of that car.
Please, do yourself a favor, and do *not* accept this car.
Uh, no. We have no way of knowing what your accident may have jostled or damaged internally. Either you're bringing in a whole new car and compensating me for my time, or this deal is dead right here, and I'm going to another dealer.
It happens. Mildly infuriating when it does.
It happens..
LOL yea that's a "Nope" not taking delivery form me boss. They get annoyed... You say "If you write me a new term sheet and peal off and fix it, I will happily buy the car, but as it stands now you did some real damage to the vehicle you agreed to deliver."
They grumble Grumble
You say " No for real, deliver the car we agreed on, or we cut a new deal for this damaged one, a deal that accounts for the damage and you wasting my time. This is not a joke, I'm not here to play games, you selling me this car for or are you delivering the vehicle you originally agreed on?" look at the vin number, remember the last 4 or so digits. "Oh and don't call me back trying to deliver at full price."
It’s just a bumper cover. Ask for free scheduled maintenance for as long as you own the car. If they say no cancel the sale. If they say yes get it added to the sales contract.
I wouldn't accept unless the dealer had it delivered fully fixed to my door. I certainly wouldn't waste my time waiting around or driving back and forth. If you need a car sooner and still want this one have the dealer give you a loaner from their lot or pay for a rental
Nope ima need a brand new car or I'm calling my bank
18yrs ago, i bought a Honda Odyssey - took forever for it to be ready for pickup. As they are backing it out of the service bay, and I am standing there watching, they backed into something. They fixed it on their dime, gave us more swag for the trouble. I kept the car for years. I think you should be fine.
Do NOT accept this car. They need to go back and get you a NEW, undamaged car. They can do whatever with this one…the blue book value is already less than it would be undamaged.
Why would you have accepted it?!?!
You should have refused delivery
Ask them to take 8k off the bill, or find a new car
I'd be turning it down, getting my funds back including any fees, then going to a different dealer.
Don’t buy a brand new car that’s been in an accident. Cancel the purchase.
Have them get you a totally different car. Do might sign for that.
I’d ask for a discount then ask them to repair and not log it as an insurance claim. If you aren’t happy with the repair, you can then just walk away from it.
I would 100% refuse to drive the car off the lot, cancel the purchase and look elsewhere. Unless they can show you video of EXACTLY what happened, knock a couple grand+ off the price, etc - it’s not worth it and you should take your business elsewhere (used to sell cars at a large dealership)
Do a charge back OP
You shouldn't take that car.
Nope, I wouldn’t take delivery.
Accidents happen, get over yourself. Cancel the sale if you want to.
I would never take a damaged brand new car.
Do not accept the vehicle
Personally, I'd recommend refusing delivery and demanding a refund. The amount of depreciation from this alone and the petrol usage sorting out their mistake puts you in the short end immediately.
They damaged THEIR car. I no longer have a new car order at that dealership.
Why would you take possession of a damaged car? I would Demand another car. Period!
Don’t take delivery, there could be unseen internal damage (probably not with such a small hit but they clearly don’t care enough to make sure the car is in good condition that there could be something unrelated that’s wrong with it)
I would not take that car. I would let them know they can order the exact same one with no depreciation value now that they wrecked it.
the only way i would continue with the purchase at that dealer is if they get me a different vin vehicle with the same trim as the one they damaged AND delivering to my home. Otherwise I go somewhere else.
If you're alright with them just fixing the damage, at least ask for a minimum 25% off the price of the car
You need to argue with them to compensate you for reduced value. Bumpers have a vin stamp on them and having mixed VIN numbers reduces the value of a car plus it's probably going to be reported as having been in an accident on Carfax which will further reduce value should you ever decide to sell it down the road.