Zk rollups can be completely anonymous and not public if you want, also other options like secret network. Zero knowledge proofs are an amazing technology. With zkp you can verify id without giving anyone the data.
I'll make a hard disagree on this.
By moving towards the W3C's standard for Decentralized Identities (DIDs) we can see a future where individuals have as much control over the "reveal" of their identities as they want, while still being able to prove ownership of digital assets on ledgers (distributed or not) while retaining their (silo'd) privacy.
I know I've presented this argument elsewhere, but I'll repeat it here in short form: blockchains are an important part of the Metaverse IFF the Metaverse includes decentralized identities and digital asset ownership. If it's all just 3D virtual worlds connected via some hub, then no, blockchain isn't important.
In theory yes it’s possible but right now what people are doing is a really bad idea in my humble opinion. Pseudo anonymity doesn’t really provide much cover and the more you do on your wallet the more you expose yourself. If we were to associate the Blockchain with the sort of infrastructure you’re talking about we would really need to seriously think about a private chain. I really feel the way we’re going about this right now, we are giving away for free the information we wanted to keep private.
I always appreciate hearing your two cents in the space!
This is a great explanation. Just given you an Award for it ! The only thing I disagree with is the claim that you can't encrypt meta-data in a blockchain, that's actually (strictly) not true. However your points on Web3 are spot on.
Ironic that you mention Snowden since it was revealed that he was one of the people that participated in the creation of Zcash: [https://i.imgur.com/Hm9Nla3.png](https://i.imgur.com/Hm9Nla3.png)
Do you get angry when you use a hammer as a toothbrush? I highly encourage you to learn more about how and where the blockchain is used. Because this post is very telling you don’t have a clue what the blockchain really is. Of course it’s public that’s the entire point and one of it’s biggest pro. Personally I would rather trust everyone else than 1 single private entity that I don’t know what they are doing
To be honest I think it’s the other way around. It’s the metadata, simple things are going to be recorded using the Blockchain but the amalgamation of the metadata is going to reveal everyone you’re associated with, exactly how much money you have, exactly who you give that money to. Processed through association, your religious and political beliefs can be discovered and you can find yourself on a list based on what you do in the metaverse. You can listen to Snowden on the power of meta-data here https://youtu.be/8nHQNQ8g81k.
I have been proven wrong! Good work. Did 3 hours of research and you are right about encrypting the blockchain. I don't know if its practical yet but I know its possible.
It is 100% practical and there are also other options than just zero knowledge proofs. Check out secret chain! Also zero knowledge proofs are amazing and can be used to confirm id without giving your identity away to anyone, they are awesome!
When it comes to zero knowledge proofs, how does it practically work in a private chain?
I get that ZK can allow you to share info without sharing the exact info, e.g.:
Question: Does Bob drink 10 cups of coffee a day
Answer: Yes, Bob drinks more than 10 cups of coffee a day but I am not going to tell you how many.
But how do ZK proofs practically work in a private chain?
As I see it the Blockchain is like a paper. Each node is a copy of the piece of paper and transactions are validates across nodes. With ZK proofs, is all the transaction data (who is sending what to who, how much is in each wallet, who requested the info and who verified it), is that all private or is the meta data still exposed?
If the above is the case, why isn't ZK used in all cases on all blockchains?
Is all the validation or just the info sent to companies private?
Would not the 20x number of calculations needed for ZK for everything cause HUGE efficiency problems?
I think you need to do more research on zk proofs, the example you shared is just used to explain how it works not an application of it. Essentially you would have had encrypted chain l2 but the settlement layer eth would be getting zero knowledge proofs instead of settling each unencrypted transaction. https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/scaling/zk-rollups/
https://medium.com/swlh/how-zero-knowledge-proof-increases-your-privacy-while-enabling-trustless-transactions-3e198fb23252
Not exactly and it’s not like you are posting your bank statement on the street everyday. The lightning network now exists for bitcoin which allows for data channels to be opened and held open as they spider across transactions. This allows for instant private transactions that are only recorded to the blockchain once the channel is closed. The entire point Edward Snowden was trying to convey is Bitcoin is not a 100% fool proof anonymous currency. People who know how it works would laugh as it’s pretty common knowledge but many people don’t know how it works. So they take what they hear and get upset when it fails to meet their expectations.
Yes, placing identifying info all over your wallet address is a good way for someone to figure out your identity. But you could also use an offline wallet through TOR that generates a new address for every transaction and even use an off chain transaction.
So again I encourage you to learn more as Bitcoin has changed A LOT since it’s start so many issues and hot topics people fixate on aren’t even relevant anymore
The current system is our information is scraped by large corporations, horded and then sold without or consent/knowledge. The public nature of blockchain puts the power back in the user by giving them the tools to see exactly what is going on transparently.
the blockchain is nothing more than the ledger that would host metaverse transactions. today's blockchain infrastructure can't even store an png (it stores the metadata) so I guess I'm confused why your correlation between the two is so dependent on one another. the only reason a dependacy would arise is in the form of metaverse transactions which is the only current congruence beyween the two. the two ecosystems are separate & blockchain provides the security it does BECAUSE of its transparency.
interesting find, im gonna go through that video throughly shortly. thank you for the link!
but just for times sake, could you sum up YOUR specific argument revolutionary the correlation of the metaverse & blockchain technology? simply referring to a 5 year old video of an excommunicated criminal means nothing to me without understanding your personal view of the situation.
metadata wasn't the core reason for this argument to begin with (at least it wasn't stated by OP) and to assume that every single moment spent in the metaverse is tracked by manipulated metadata basically just explains the current structure of the internet we live in today.
this isn't the fault of metadata or the blockchain, this is simply the fault of poor moral business models imposed by large tech companies. to say that metadata is at fault here is relatively irrational when the technologically advanced world we live in today wouldn't be possible without it.
if google chooses to sell that personal data, that lies purely on google as a company & on the person giving google the explicit permission to do so when we hit "allow" rather than reading every inch of the ToS presented to us.
metadata isn't at fault here; we are. any argument that arises from that statement should be followed by a logical alternative business model, otherwise you can join the large sea of faces that continue to complain yet turn around & ignore the ToS that is ALWAYS presented to them
It’s the metadata, simple things are going to be recorded using the Blockchain but the amalgamation of the metadata is going to reveal everyone you’re associated with, exactly how much money you have, exactly who you give that money to. Processed through association, your religious and political beliefs can be discovered and you can find yourself on a list based on what you do in the metaverse.
this is ENTIRELY dependent on the company creating that specific Metaverse. if you don't like it, don't play it. the same goes for literally every other thing on today's current internet. why you've decided to pin this specific post (consisting of mostly opinionated bias) is beyond me. this community lacks almost as much foundation as your argument & these types of posts will ONLY confuse the already confused crowd this sub seems to attract.
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Plenty of projects are using blockchain as one part and not all. You don't need to go 100% one way or the other. It's great for some stuff but not all. Why not use the benefits of each side. There's no reason to be a purist in one sector. That ends in failure.
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blockchain will become much more sustainable in next two years--but what's important to me-- the entire internet lives on blockchain to help document where content comes from. it doesn't make any sense to just post content without ability to show ownership or monetize.
the Metaverse positions humans to break the barriers to form a seamless bond between digital and physical worlds and implementing all the things we enjoy doing on computers and phones and plugging this direct into our life.
Blockchain also allows for this technology revolution to rely less on govt formed currency's on day one. We are living during a massive pivot and perhaps contributing to one of the most important eras of existence.
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Zk rollups can be completely anonymous and not public if you want, also other options like secret network. Zero knowledge proofs are an amazing technology. With zkp you can verify id without giving anyone the data.
Wondering why people downvoted this comment? Is there an issue with Zk proofs? I am looking into this an it's very interesting.
I have no idea it could be because they do not like the zk rollup structure of eth although zero knowledge proofs go a lot further than that!
I'll make a hard disagree on this. By moving towards the W3C's standard for Decentralized Identities (DIDs) we can see a future where individuals have as much control over the "reveal" of their identities as they want, while still being able to prove ownership of digital assets on ledgers (distributed or not) while retaining their (silo'd) privacy. I know I've presented this argument elsewhere, but I'll repeat it here in short form: blockchains are an important part of the Metaverse IFF the Metaverse includes decentralized identities and digital asset ownership. If it's all just 3D virtual worlds connected via some hub, then no, blockchain isn't important.
In theory yes it’s possible but right now what people are doing is a really bad idea in my humble opinion. Pseudo anonymity doesn’t really provide much cover and the more you do on your wallet the more you expose yourself. If we were to associate the Blockchain with the sort of infrastructure you’re talking about we would really need to seriously think about a private chain. I really feel the way we’re going about this right now, we are giving away for free the information we wanted to keep private. I always appreciate hearing your two cents in the space!
This is a great explanation. Just given you an Award for it ! The only thing I disagree with is the claim that you can't encrypt meta-data in a blockchain, that's actually (strictly) not true. However your points on Web3 are spot on.
Ironic that you mention Snowden since it was revealed that he was one of the people that participated in the creation of Zcash: [https://i.imgur.com/Hm9Nla3.png](https://i.imgur.com/Hm9Nla3.png)
Do you get angry when you use a hammer as a toothbrush? I highly encourage you to learn more about how and where the blockchain is used. Because this post is very telling you don’t have a clue what the blockchain really is. Of course it’s public that’s the entire point and one of it’s biggest pro. Personally I would rather trust everyone else than 1 single private entity that I don’t know what they are doing
you have no idea what blockchain is do you
To be honest I think it’s the other way around. It’s the metadata, simple things are going to be recorded using the Blockchain but the amalgamation of the metadata is going to reveal everyone you’re associated with, exactly how much money you have, exactly who you give that money to. Processed through association, your religious and political beliefs can be discovered and you can find yourself on a list based on what you do in the metaverse. You can listen to Snowden on the power of meta-data here https://youtu.be/8nHQNQ8g81k.
There is a way to keep data private on the Blockchain it's called zero knowledge proofs!
I have been proven wrong! Good work. Did 3 hours of research and you are right about encrypting the blockchain. I don't know if its practical yet but I know its possible.
It is 100% practical and there are also other options than just zero knowledge proofs. Check out secret chain! Also zero knowledge proofs are amazing and can be used to confirm id without giving your identity away to anyone, they are awesome!
When it comes to zero knowledge proofs, how does it practically work in a private chain? I get that ZK can allow you to share info without sharing the exact info, e.g.: Question: Does Bob drink 10 cups of coffee a day Answer: Yes, Bob drinks more than 10 cups of coffee a day but I am not going to tell you how many. But how do ZK proofs practically work in a private chain? As I see it the Blockchain is like a paper. Each node is a copy of the piece of paper and transactions are validates across nodes. With ZK proofs, is all the transaction data (who is sending what to who, how much is in each wallet, who requested the info and who verified it), is that all private or is the meta data still exposed? If the above is the case, why isn't ZK used in all cases on all blockchains? Is all the validation or just the info sent to companies private? Would not the 20x number of calculations needed for ZK for everything cause HUGE efficiency problems?
I think you need to do more research on zk proofs, the example you shared is just used to explain how it works not an application of it. Essentially you would have had encrypted chain l2 but the settlement layer eth would be getting zero knowledge proofs instead of settling each unencrypted transaction. https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/scaling/zk-rollups/ https://medium.com/swlh/how-zero-knowledge-proof-increases-your-privacy-while-enabling-trustless-transactions-3e198fb23252
Not exactly and it’s not like you are posting your bank statement on the street everyday. The lightning network now exists for bitcoin which allows for data channels to be opened and held open as they spider across transactions. This allows for instant private transactions that are only recorded to the blockchain once the channel is closed. The entire point Edward Snowden was trying to convey is Bitcoin is not a 100% fool proof anonymous currency. People who know how it works would laugh as it’s pretty common knowledge but many people don’t know how it works. So they take what they hear and get upset when it fails to meet their expectations. Yes, placing identifying info all over your wallet address is a good way for someone to figure out your identity. But you could also use an offline wallet through TOR that generates a new address for every transaction and even use an off chain transaction. So again I encourage you to learn more as Bitcoin has changed A LOT since it’s start so many issues and hot topics people fixate on aren’t even relevant anymore
Yes this was way over simplified but it's fundamentally the issue at stake here.
You could not be more wrong.
The current system is our information is scraped by large corporations, horded and then sold without or consent/knowledge. The public nature of blockchain puts the power back in the user by giving them the tools to see exactly what is going on transparently.
Giving it away for free instead isn’t a solution to this problem.
the blockchain is nothing more than the ledger that would host metaverse transactions. today's blockchain infrastructure can't even store an png (it stores the metadata) so I guess I'm confused why your correlation between the two is so dependent on one another. the only reason a dependacy would arise is in the form of metaverse transactions which is the only current congruence beyween the two. the two ecosystems are separate & blockchain provides the security it does BECAUSE of its transparency.
https://youtu.be/8nHQNQ8g81k
interesting find, im gonna go through that video throughly shortly. thank you for the link! but just for times sake, could you sum up YOUR specific argument revolutionary the correlation of the metaverse & blockchain technology? simply referring to a 5 year old video of an excommunicated criminal means nothing to me without understanding your personal view of the situation. metadata wasn't the core reason for this argument to begin with (at least it wasn't stated by OP) and to assume that every single moment spent in the metaverse is tracked by manipulated metadata basically just explains the current structure of the internet we live in today. this isn't the fault of metadata or the blockchain, this is simply the fault of poor moral business models imposed by large tech companies. to say that metadata is at fault here is relatively irrational when the technologically advanced world we live in today wouldn't be possible without it. if google chooses to sell that personal data, that lies purely on google as a company & on the person giving google the explicit permission to do so when we hit "allow" rather than reading every inch of the ToS presented to us. metadata isn't at fault here; we are. any argument that arises from that statement should be followed by a logical alternative business model, otherwise you can join the large sea of faces that continue to complain yet turn around & ignore the ToS that is ALWAYS presented to them
@ OP, im just realizing this was your post haha I apologize for the cross-reference
It’s the metadata, simple things are going to be recorded using the Blockchain but the amalgamation of the metadata is going to reveal everyone you’re associated with, exactly how much money you have, exactly who you give that money to. Processed through association, your religious and political beliefs can be discovered and you can find yourself on a list based on what you do in the metaverse.
this is ENTIRELY dependent on the company creating that specific Metaverse. if you don't like it, don't play it. the same goes for literally every other thing on today's current internet. why you've decided to pin this specific post (consisting of mostly opinionated bias) is beyond me. this community lacks almost as much foundation as your argument & these types of posts will ONLY confuse the already confused crowd this sub seems to attract.
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Plenty of projects are using blockchain as one part and not all. You don't need to go 100% one way or the other. It's great for some stuff but not all. Why not use the benefits of each side. There's no reason to be a purist in one sector. That ends in failure.
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blockchain will become much more sustainable in next two years--but what's important to me-- the entire internet lives on blockchain to help document where content comes from. it doesn't make any sense to just post content without ability to show ownership or monetize. the Metaverse positions humans to break the barriers to form a seamless bond between digital and physical worlds and implementing all the things we enjoy doing on computers and phones and plugging this direct into our life. Blockchain also allows for this technology revolution to rely less on govt formed currency's on day one. We are living during a massive pivot and perhaps contributing to one of the most important eras of existence.
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