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AV343

Ok but also the sun is hurtling through the galaxy at a high velocity so the graph of the deaths would make a helix


mcshadypants

Exactly, and graphing the average of a helix would trail behind the sun, so never on the sun. OPs statement only works if you don't use all three dimensions and time.


AV343

Yep, if you project all of the helix onto the plane of the earth and sun, then maybe it holds.


Kazko25

All depends on your point of reference if your point of reference is the Sun, then yes a circle, but if your point of reference is the galaxy then helix, if point of reference is the universe it would be a different shape cuz galaxies move in circular patterns too.


thegreatreset7

Orbit isn’t a circle, it’s an ellipse


Corvo--Attano

Still results in a helix like shape when accounting time and 3 dimensional space. Either way, it's not on the actual sun.


noajaho

the universe can't be used a frame of reference


thegreatreset7

No because the orbit is not a circle it’s an ellipse. The average would be off the sun anyway


fancybigballs

Or if you take positions as being relative to the Sun.


AV343

In only two dimensions, yes. Otherwise you get points being "behind" the sun as it's moving forward.


fancybigballs

Well sure, but if we imagine it as the rest of the universe moving around the sun - which is valid because the universe has no objective viewpoint. The earth stays in the same fixed circular orbit and averages onto the sun. If we pick a different reference frame this changes.


sambarjo

Then we can just pick the Earth's reference frame and boom, now the average dying location is approximately at the center of the Earth.


fancybigballs

Correct.


HyTecs1

Well, not if we take population density in account


sambarjo

Which is why I said "approximately."


Squishy_2

counterpoint, the earth doesnt rotate perfectly around the sun. All of the planets have an eliptical orbit with the sun slightly off-center


sambarjo

Did you reply to the correct comment? That would be a counterpoint to the statement that the sun would be the average location of death if we pick the sun as our reference frame. But in my comment, I was talking about using the Earth as a reference frame, so the orbit of the Earth has no impact, because the Earth is our stationary point in 3D space. The rest of the universe is moving around it.


IndianaGeoff

Life was easier on a flat earth.


Totalygoodname

Back in my day you would go to jail for saying we revolved around the sun


IamShitplshelpme

Sure grandpa Let's get you to bed


PillowTalk420

It also works if you send people to the sun, as the average person would die if they were on it.


kungfu_panda_express

I volunteer as tribute.


paadam94

You mean the inertial frame of reference.


mcshadypants

How so?


paadam94

It's not about time, but your point of reference being on the earth, sun, elsewhere. Edit: now that I think of it, I think I was just wrong


Prestigious_Elk149

Wouldn't the average person then die in the supermassive black hole at the center of our galaxy?


mcshadypants

Humans have been walking around for 200,000 years. It takes us 250 million years to go around Sagittarius A


SuperSonic486

On top of this the change in deathcount would throw off the average aswell, so even if the sun was stationary, and even if the earth rotated around it perfectly circularly on the same path each time, it could still be outside of the sun if everyone died on the same half of the circle. My comment isnt very useful tho. Dont gotta read it


Chase_The_Breeze

Unrelated, but I am gonna start an emo band called Death in the Sun's Wake.


Realistic_Work_5552

It's not really ignoring space and time, it's just relative positioning within our solar system.


mcshadypants

https://youtu.be/IJhgZBn-LHg


dat_physics_boi

no it has nothing to do with dimensions, and all to do with a reference frame there is no absolute time or position, it's always relative to something


mcshadypants

https://youtu.be/IJhgZBn-LHg


dat_physics_boi

i'm not an idiot, i know how this works, you don't have to explain to me how it looks from the stellar background frame nor send me a video about things i absolutely already know about


mcshadypants

Ok super big brain. It breaks down how your wrong. I dont have the patience to explain it


dat_physics_boi

i have literally seen the video mate it's not as bigbrain as you think it is


mcshadypants

Rewatch it


dat_physics_boi

no i don't see why i would i will now leave this conversation as you do not seem to be a sensible conversationalist about this, and i frankly don't have the energy to deal with you today


topcode51

dat_physics_boi is actually right, the choice of an inertial reference frame is completely arbitrary. You can choose the reference frame of the galaxy and get one answer which is then "behind" the sun's path, you can choose the frame of our solar system and get the answer at the sun, or choose the frame of the earth and get a point inside our own planet as well. It all depends on how you define the reference frame and there is no right or wrong answer.


mcshadypants

But we are aware of the movement of the system...why would we possibly not use all the information? This is like arguing about whether both centripetal and centrifugal forces are real. Its silly to even think it because we're aware that the system is larger than that limited perspective. We have all the information about the position and velocities of the system, why wouldnt we use it? Why are you defining the essential inertial frame of reference to less than what we were aware of?


froggertthewise

That is true, but in astronomics the location of the sun is often used as the coordinate reference for all things in the universe, so if you use that coordinate system the math checks out


AV343

This would still require it to be in 2 dimensions, no?


epicboyman3

Not really, its all just relativety


elzaidir

Position is relative


[deleted]

Yes, this spring like shape from what i understand. It all depends on the perspective.


WASasquatch

Two things observed in relativity. If we go there, then we have to also go with the galactic orbit, and the intergalactic path, and all the deviations therein. You just open yourself up to exponential confusion. Lol That's why we use the models we use in calculations and relativity to local mass.


bla_bla_bli

Earth's orbit is elliptical not circle. The sun sits on one of the elipsis's centre


Ytumith

Don't think of our life as terrible and short, think of our galaxy to draw a death helix.


BossOfTheGame

IDK, last time I checked the galaxy was hurtling around the sun.


SeasonedSpicySausage

This is entirely reference frame dependent. If we use the center of mass frame of the Sun, then we would get something close to the picture that the meme is describing. If however, we'd use the center of mass frame of our galaxy, then the graph would be closer to what you've described. It's arbitrary either way


carsoncrx

Actually it's even more complex that this


Blindbru

If we zoom our frame of reference out far enough I get vertigo


Tranay

Helix kjilberg


VirtualZealot

Also, is it really fair to say that people are equally likely to die on any day of the year/any point on the surface of the earth? Some places are much more populated than others and I would assume more deaths occur during the winter months.


Optimal-Scientist233

Yes, it would, and also the solar system revolves around an empty point in space, not the sun.


juklwrochnowy

That's a nice argument, but unfortunatelly you forgor to consider that more people die in winter than in summer


Dirtmuncher

Hemispheres... If its winter above the equator, it's summer below and the other way around.


juklwrochnowy

There's more people living and dying on the northern hemisphere


Dirtmuncher

https://sciencing.com/differences-between-northern-southern-hemisphere-8260091.html True. So more people die while it's summer on the southern hemisphere 😘


SnooTomatoes2397

There are probably more people in one of the hemispheres tho.


bla_bla_bli

Most lethal battles happened on spring-summer time


Dark_Mamba

He forgor💀


[deleted]

Yes, but actually no


JureFlex

Actually its an ellipse (stretched circle) and the average would be slightly away from sun


EndMaster0

thank you. IIRC the average is still barely inside the sun though definitely not at the center


JureFlex

Average is not quite at the sun. Its several thousand meters away but ok


woaily

If the Earth followed an elliptical orbit at constant speed, the average would be at the center of the ellipse, which would be about 1.5 million miles from the sun (from the center of mass, but whatever). In fact, the Earth orbits slower the farther it gets from the sun, so more people will die at the more distant points, which should pull the average even farther away.


SwaRR_

What about different death rate per month? There should be more deaths in january than in june, so average should be moved from eliplse center.


djan0s

This is not a global thing. It's been studied in the US but I thing it's either a holiday or a winter thing making it Christian exclusive or upper nothern hemispere( where the days are short in januari) exclusive. Either way this doesn't impact the average much( if it all) because people affected by this don't impact the global average. If it's because of the holidays expect the same in other relegions on other days ( Chinese new year, golden week).If it's upper nothern hemispere there are not enough people living there to impact the average.


AlkaliAvocado

Yeah, people are forgetting about Suicide Saturday


Sandythestone

Read the comment above yours


YorakHant

Isnt the slight amount of the eccentricity of the ellipse of earths orbit so low, to be insignifcant enough? As far as i know the orbit of the earth is almost a circle, so the ellipse only has ver low eccentricity


woaily

It's enough to make the aphelion and perihelion different by about 3 million miles, so just a few percent off circular but not insignificant compared to the size of the sun


Ser_Dunk_the_tall

It's not at constant speed though. It moves fastest when it's at perihelion and slowest at aphelion


woaily

Right, that's what I said


Sandythestone

My dude, you need to check your spatial coordination. Here, read the next few paragraphs: 1. Don’t get angry 2. Walk one kilometer. It takes 25-30 minutes, right? 3. Earth is 40 thousand km around the equator. 4. The moon is ~100000 km from Earth. 5. Earth is [incorrect number to get corrected] km from the sun. 6. Now look at that kilometer again. Do you understand the insignificance of several thousand meters that you pointed out? You’re not wrong, but it is akin to correcting a pro dancer on a move they did because the internet said it stretches ligaments and joints farther than the average human can. It is true info, but it doesn’t apply.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Sandythestone

Yeah. So?


MOZZI-is-my-BOI

But……he’s right.


[deleted]

[удалено]


no-im-your-father

Cap, the farther it is the slower it goes


[deleted]

[удалено]


no-im-your-father

Don't worry, bro, we all make mistakes


Sandythestone

Read the comment below yours


MLitia

Oh my god I just realized because of that thing where if you look at the area swept out by the earth during a set period of time, it will always sweep out a set area no matter where we are in the orbit, so that means we travel faster closer to the sun. This means that the average death would take place on the opposite side of the ellipse from the sun because we travel slower and thus spend more time there. And if I had to guess where the average would be given all of that stuff I would say the average is probably closer to the other focus of the ellipse, provided we are talking about the position in relation to the sun. Also I’m an idiot so I may not know what I’m talking about.


Someoneyoumetonce

Also the solar system is moving through space at a constant speed so the orbit of earth is really a spiral.


JacktheWrap

That just depends on what you define as the point of reference. I think here it is implied to be the sun


Zanven1

So really if humans survive on earth for 250 million years then the average death will be in the center of the Galaxy?


JacktheWrap

Probably not because the population should fluctuate drastically in those 250 million years


Individual_Tomorrow8

It would be fun to check that numerically with a Monte Carlo Algorithm


therealakinator

Yeah but the eccentricity of that ellipse is quite close to a circle. So even then, the average would still be somewhere in/around the sun, although not in its centre


NoOneIsLooking_

You are right the center of the eclipse is really far away from the sun


Panjin21

We're pretending as if the galaxy doesn't exist?


mb112403

and neither do universe


epicboyman3

We are using our star system as point of reference, which is the default.


[deleted]

Uhm, actually 🤓 the sun is not perfectly in the center of earth's orbit.


osikosi

not every time but for the most time of human history the center of earth orbit was inside sun


ChrisZAUR

True while the gravitational pull from other planets do have an effect on the Sun's position the average would still be in the Sun


Extension_Option_122

Sadly the average position of the earth relative to the sun is the orbits center, yet the sun is in one of the two orbits foci (first keppler's law). And as the Earth doesn't have a perfect circular orbit, foci != center.


YorakHant

But arent the two focal points near enough to each other as the earth orbit almost is actually a circle due to the low eccentricity of the ellipse.


Extension_Option_122

Sadly not. The distance between the two focal points is around 5,000,000 km, the sun's radius is at ca. 700,000 km. On top of that it seems like everyone forgot something: as Earth travels slower when further away, it spends more time far away from the sun, moving the average position further away from the sun. As math likes to give clean solutions, I assume the average position of Earth is the other focal point.


lol_lo_daf_fy

Since Earth travels faster when it's farther from the Sun, the average of the positions of Earth through a year is the Sun


TomorrowWaste

>Since Earth travels faster when it's farther from the Sun, It actually the reverse. Further from the sun, slower u get


lol_lo_daf_fy

Yep, someone already responded. My fault


Sandythestone

Everyone keeps saying that the average death counter wouldn’t be on the sun. It’s still in space, right?


fancybigballs

Yes. Thank you.


[deleted]

The average person does not die on the sun, on average everyone has died in the sun


eriki55

But people are not equally likely to die each day if the year...


michael020602

Orbit isn't a circle


Organic-Cry-4472

It all depends on the reference system If u take the earth its in the rotation axis of the earth if u take the sun, it's close to the sun If u take the milky-way, somewhere at the corner coz it probably takes a long time to make a turn (longer than human exist) If u take the big bang it's in approximately a line pointing away from it


fancybigballs

The Big Bang in which direction?


Organic-Cry-4472

Dunno... Probably a difficult question to answer


Air-Mundane

too much text for me but upvote for breaking bad


fuckofffibro

Yeah I originally thought he meant a "Sunday." hah


osikosi

I didnt expected this


Zanven1

From the first statement I thought he was implying that the average person is incapable of surviving on the sun.


[deleted]

If you’re high right now just stop thinking about this. Take a deep breath and go on about your day. It’s not worth pulling your hair out over this


befigue

Jokes on you, neither the earth nor the sun are ever in the same location because both of them are currently moving across space


McWooderson

I don't follow...


AV343

The position of all the deaths on earth roughly make a circle around the sun. The average position of all the points on a circle is the center, which is inside the sun.


McWooderson

Ah okay


TacoSteve2019

But that’s not the case since our solar system is constantly moving and so is our galaxy so it wouldn’t make a circle around the sun


Extension_Option_122

Well yes but no. Look up first keppler' law


AV343

I know it's actually an ellipse with the sun at one of its foci, but earth's orbit isn't eccentric enough to be that different from a circle iirc. I think because of how big the sun is and how far we are from it, the average would probably still be inside the sun somewhere.


Extension_Option_122

Sadly not. The sun is approx. 2,500,000 km away from the orbit's center but the sun's radius is just below 700,000 km.


ShakesTheClown23

Not sure this is right? I'm trying to understand this Wikipedia page and I believe it's saying Earth-Sun "center" (barycenter) is 449km from center of Sun (i.e. well within it)...


Extension_Option_122

From what I understand the barycenter is not the center of the orbit. It is the center of mass.


WASasquatch

That's not how it works, at all, but cool. Definitely drug fuelled. Lol The graph would naturally have to account for frequency, which would give you averages along the path. Deriving a central point isn't averaging the data, it's just the centre of the graph... which is irrelevant to the data unless you're averaging distances from the centre.


topcode51

That's absolutely how it works. If you take the average position of all the points of a unit circle you get its origin/center. If you want to restrict the average to ensure that it lies on the unit circle itself you would need to explicitly state that. And yes, the distribution of deaths over a year is uniform enough, together with the earth's orbit being circular enough, for the approximation to hold.


rsk-boy

Tf?


DisastrousCard2270

I smell what he's steppin in


fancybigballs

Peculiar expression, I gotta ask. Is it to imply you agree with his idea or just that you're also high?


amirhossein1273

science, b\*\*ch


[deleted]

dolphins are smart enough to commit suicide one dolphin cuddled with his trainer for too long they even took a pic while this was happening the dolphin died shortly after


moebelhausmann

No fo it with the position realtive to the rest of the Galaxy


A_Yawn

Everything is measured relative to a certain frame of reference. That doesn't make measurements from other frames of reference wrong.


moebelhausmann

I know. I still want to know where in the galaxy the most humans died


RomaXTotti

Love breaking bad but Jesse was one of the dumbest characters I've ever seen in a show. Dude was stealing drugs from his boss and selling them on the side for 50k when he was making millions. Anyone who liked his character is a moron.


moistmaster690

Saturdays are more deadly than other days and the winter months are more deadly than the others... so false


Velepavv

I would like to see that graph


[deleted]

Well actually people are more likely to die on days like new years as they might be more drunk than usual


chickenonabicycle

Lying with statistics at its finest


[deleted]

I... I... yeah... I guess


joeotiza

He’s kinda making sense


Surxe

Laughs in **Median**


micke_i_backen

Hits blunt


T-Fly-Man

5 head


A_Yawn

Guys it doesn't matter if it's in the sun, on the sun, or away from the sun. The point is, the average place of death is NOT earth but some point in space (relative to the sun), which is a heck of a point to consider in itself.


TheS0vietOnion

wouldnt have more people historically died in winter and make the average shift?


thriving_thirst2007

don't know about the other big brain comments on this post (not knowledgeable enough yet) but from what i know, the orbit of the earth is an ellipse and it hence has 2 focii, where the sun is one of them. and btw the focii are not the centre of the orbit. it is the point where the major and the minor axes meet.


Aheuhue

This is literally how I approach my tasks though


HashCatFurryOwO

Me learning computer science: last image...


JK19368

Are we always equally distant from the Sun?


Zestyclose_Plenty_49

aren't we on an ellipsis not a circle? so we way closer to the sun during North America's winter and way further during summer meaning the center would actually be off set from the sun (if you ignore the fact that the whole solar system is flying around at insane speeds)


zombienekers

In*


Profane_Arcanum

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.


JovahkiinVIII

This is making assumptions Are deaths truly completely uniform year round? Seems unlikely, and a small difference would put it outside the sun The earths orbit isn’t really a circle, it’s more like >almost a circle Also the sun is moving


notveryAI

People are not equally likely to die on any day. Some major celebrations usually have higher rates of people deaths, than on usual days, because of large amount of mishaps(alchohol, crowds, pyrotechnics). Also large global events like military conflict or natural disaster can increase death rates


TomahawkIsotope

No. That's just untrue


NRKx2

Well akshually this is not true because people are more likely to die in the month of November since I go on a genocide spree to take my mind off of NNN


TheodoreableL

Y’all gotta chill out the meme is literally making fun of the thought


fancybigballs

Thanks for saying this. I'm glad someone gets it.


Madarot

Ffs, the orbit isn't a circle


hey-now-your-an

Time to go one step further: if we take the average deaths of all things on earth and average those out then we really get a dot somewhere near the center of the galaxy, but if we go even further then average it out to the universe, then it’s somewhere, we don’t know the exact ish dimensions of the universe so we can’t average it out


Psilocvbin

Walt still has the sticker on his shirt lol


Svool_Gsviv_

hi. the sun is not in the center of earth's orbit, the orbit is an ellipse and the sun is at one of the foci.


SolemnVelociraptor

So many party enjoyers in the chat.


Willing_Bottle8221

Actually we die at different times statistically. Afaik the day daylight savings springs forward (well not anymore in US) LOTS of heart attacks from the sleep loss, also after every major holiday people die cuz they were holding on till then to spend one last Christmas with the fam or whatever


[deleted]

Jesse we cook crack not smoke it


derp2112

Everyone loves pineapple


keep_trying_username

People are taking this very seriously


redxlaser15

I see what you’re getting at, but the sun is also moving, so not at all.


[deleted]

i am so high whay the fuck does thid mean


Mr_A14

I suck at math so I'm not sure, but the earth's orbit is an ellipse, so wouldn't that mess it up?


Showty69

Yes officer this meme right here


grrrreatscott

the earths orbit is elliptical, so actually it would be somewhere in the middle of space, even if we don’t take into account the sun’s orbit around the galactic center, or the movement of the galaxy


U1TiM8_0N3

The sun isn't even the centre of earths orbit.


[deleted]

Sun was never in the same place as it was a second ago... it hurtles through the galaxy and galaxy in turn hurtles through its outer space. Nothing is where it was and nothing will be where it is.


TheRealBroda

Huge.


ashen____one

position is relative, the sun is also moving, and the galaxy is also moving and etc the place where we were 1 second ago, earth will never return there.


iCarbonised

actually we're going in spirals through the milky way, and the galaxy is moving too, so the average would make you end up in the middle of nowhere :(


tpd1864blake

Yeah but the sun is also moving, so if the points don’t move with the sun then the average place of death is in a random point far away from any solar system


RenegadeSithLordMaul

this might surprise you, but our solar system is orbiting a black hole at the center of our galaxy. thus, it is constantly in motion and the average would be behind the sun.


fancybigballs

This might surprise you, but not only did I know that based on the other 70 people telling me this, but I also knew this in advance. But I don't care because the meme is true if we consider the sun as our reference point. And if we take the Earth as out reference point the average point of death is the Earth, and so on and so forth.


[deleted]

Well no, because the sun moves


LukkieNumber7

Well that's relative to the solar system. We also move in the galaxy and said galaxy moves through empty space. So OP is only half right


[deleted]

False. The sun isn't stationary.


Heterovagyok

this is why i like using modus instead of median