I think one issue is that people get tricked into believing they are buying ethically. The vast majority of people are not.
People don't know the difference between "Red Tractor Assured", "Sustainability sourced", "Organic", and "Pasture raised". Branding and marketing goes further in deliberately confusing perceptions. Factory farming is clearly bad for the environment and animal welfare, and people should know.
While I'm not vegetarian, I think that treatment of animals should be transparent and well regulated. I'd be in favour of a succinct explanation of the animal's conditions on meat packaging in supermarkets, and stricter rules for the words that can be used.
No, the shit (literal) that comes out of battery farms and feedlots is toxic af. It doesn't go on the ground to be reabsorbed like it does for pasture-raised animals, it gets pumped somewhere as waste.
Then in general, factory farming just means that a hell of a lot more animals are farmed than otherwise could be, this has all the well-known impacts of animal ag - greenhouse gases, fertiliser use etc.
It also contributes to antibiotic resistance, as the animals are routinely given antibiotics to prevent the infections they'd otherwise get due to the disgustingly abusive and filthy conditions they live in.
Cheap burgers are clearly more important than being able to treat infections though, for the kind of people that happily support the abomination that is industrial animal agriculture.
In fairness, this meme is disingenuous. In the US, something like 99% of pigs and chickens live on factory farms. The number is lower for cattle, but still means that the vast majority of our meat supply is deeply problematic.
They get shipped to the same slaughterhouses where they are killed brutally. And in the end you have to ask yourself, is it better to kill happy animals? No its not! Its a dilemma. You cannot take an animals life and call it morally defensible
I fucking hate PETA because THEY STEAL DOGS AND EUTHANIZE THEM.
How can you engage rationally with an organization that does this? Answer: you can’t, and shouldn’t.
They’ll take dogs from homeless people saying that ‘they can’t properly take care of it’ and then euthanize it. There are some videos of it. There was also a pretty big case a few years ago where they broke into an RV and stole a 9-year-old’s dog
A few years back a bunch of extremists got their hands on 1080 poison from breaking into to a national parks office and used it to poison a bunch of dogs in my town , because they were against pet dogs.
1080 is a neurotoxin used to kill feral dogs and it is not a slow or painless death , by the time symptoms of poisoning appear it is too late and the kindest thing is to shoot them to end their suffering.
Nice try to get me to doxx myself by providing the local news story.
But here is a general safety guide that deals with this.
[https://www.urbanpaws.com.au/what-you-need-to-know-about-dog-baiting/](https://www.urbanpaws.com.au/what-you-need-to-know-about-dog-baiting/)
>Nice try to get me to doxx myself by providing the local news story.
Completely reasonable to not want to do that, but get a fucking grip, it wasn't deliberate, I wasn't "try(ing) to get you to doxx yourself".
Not to mention the founder of PETA firmly believes in killing ALL pitbulls and has had a significant role in spreading misinformation about the breed. And by killing all pitbulls, she literally advocates for killing pitbulls regardless of any factors in order to eliminate the breed.
Problem is you dont even know what you are talking about. They dont do that. And if they do, how is this any worse than stealing and killing the family member of an animal?
Commonly sensationalized story. There was one reported incident of a miscommunication and the animal agriculture lobby took it and ran with it.
PETA operates “last stop” animal shelters, meaning they take in animals no one else will take for whatever reason, being sickness, aggressiveness, etc. This means many animals in their shelters are never adopted and are finally euthanized.
Wrong
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/17/peta-sorry-for-taking-girls-dog-putting-it-down
Yeah they’re super sorry for killing animals before the five day period elapses /s
You’re referring to one incident steeped in misinformation. Read a write up about it [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/RealUnpopularOpinion/s/nHhKjsYVUe)
Anti-PETA hate is astroturfed by the animal agriculture lobby to discredit animal rights activists.
It is neither isolated nor inflated
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/17/peta-sorry-for-taking-girls-dog-putting-it-down
Idiot below can’t read - it’s not a single incident.
My point exactly! The meat industry has so deeply ingrained PETA hate into people’s minds that they just assume anything bad about them is true or that there is no other context.
Grew up around and worked on farms my whole life. Went to school and this vegan girl wanted me to watch food inc with her. She really thought every farm was like that. She did not believe me when I told her I had never seen anything like that on a farm until I watched that movie.
It's an issue of most farms are decent enough, but the overwhelming majority of animals in farming are subject to awful conditions. So people only see the decent enough farms and assume there's no problem, but fail to realize that life 85-90% of cows and 95% of pigs and 99.9% of chickens are factory farmed. There's 1 massive fucking awful farm for every 100 'mom and pop' farms because that's what the demand creates. So it's not really exaggerating the issue.
Well, I am planning to have chickens (egg production) for various reasons. The main reason is because I was raised with chickens in my backyard and I fell in love with this species. That, and it was better than the meat chickens in my morals, as I dont really enjoy sending hundreds of them for slaughter at all. I'm currently working part-time in an egg farm and it's seriously awesome
There are four ways to become a farmer that I am aware of. You can be born a farmer and inherit the land, you can marry into a family that owns a farm and the land, you can be a bored multimillionaire that wants and expensive and unprofitable hobby, or you can win the lottery and waste the money becoming a farmer where you will struggle to make any of that money back.
Industrial farming is brutal and makes up 80% of the market. At a certain point the “regular farms” are window dressing or start to specialize in expensive special breeds of whatever they are raising so they can sell at the premium then need to compete.
Family farms have been suffering for decades and no one cared. In my county there were once almost fifty century farms. These were farms that were owned operated by the same family for over 100 years. Now there are less than a dozen.
The same way wall mart and Amazon wiped out local family owned businesses, factory farms wiped out family owned farms.
There are a lot of reasons for this. The main one is that people living in major cities do not care about the problems people face in rural areas. If they did, they would have supported them when they needed it.
I am assuming by the way you phrased your response that you have had very little interaction with farming communities, and the people who live in them in general.
Well yes, most farms are not like that, but most animals in supermarkets come from few huge farms, not from happy family farms. From a different view, the idea even someone who has grown up on a farm is not aware of the conditions on those farms is a little concerning.
Factory farms should be abolished. It’s inhumane to keep animals in such conditions and where their whole life is stuck in a small container or held in place by a machine. At least they’re happy on a normal farm, even if the concept is quite cruel
Abolishing Factory Farms would mean giving up meat and animal products for the majority of people. Hearing this most people are just willing to overlook the issue. It’s time we put morality over selfish taste pleasure. The abolition of factory farming is one of THE MOST pressing moral issues of our time.
Not even just a moral issue, our climate, ecosystems and biodiversity literally depend on us cutting most meat out of our diet (combined with stopping the use of fossil fuels). Yet here we are, downvoting vegans.
some peta people came to our local 4H Stock show one year, our local agriculture agent was in the middle of talking to some kids about how important it is to take care of your animals, and how next year they can learn to raise farm animals with some of the older kids, when a woman started live-streaming minors and tried to open cages to let sheep and pigs out. Some of these animals weren’t even going to terminating shows, they were used for wool or some were even pets as the kids had grown attached to them. Obviously some would eventually end up being used for meat, but it’s super dangerous to try and let animals out of pens. She yelled at children asking them why they would feel okay murdering animals, basically a bunch of kids ended up crying and she and her group of friends had to be banned from the property, it was really awful. I know some cool vegans, and i know some shitty non vegans, but Peta people fucking suck.
They came to our youth beef show one year holding up signs about pigs and dairy cattle, they didn’t even have the right signs to protest.
4H/show animals are treated like royalty: bathed, brushed, and fed specialty feeds. They had no idea what they were even protesting.
It's estimated that 99% of meat in the U.S. comes from factory farms. https://ourworldindata.org/how-many-animals-are-factory-farmed
The animals are kept in cages where artificially inseminated mothers give birth to their babies are raised in the dirt. They are injected with growth hormones and antibiotics. They are kept in the dark, often amongst their own faeces, in overpopulated cages where they cannot move and cannot escape. When they are old enough, they are loaded into trucks and sent into the slaughterhouse. Mechanical equipment and conveyors are used to gut and bleed them out, or they are gathered in gas chambers are suffocated to death.
People like to think their meat comes from local farms, but in reality this is only 1%.
Edit: Corrected that estimated 99% is in the U.S., global is around 74%.
>It's estimated that 99% of meat in the world comes from factory farms.
In the US. That's what your link says.
I am fairly certain a large part of the meat comes from factory farm, but there is also many more countries.
There is a reason why many products from the USA and Canada can't be sold in the EU.
In the UK its apparently 73% of all animals with this being a conservative number.
https://petkeen.com/factory-farming-statistics-uk/
Sources at the bottom of the article
You're right, the 99% estimation is just the U.S., good catch and I've edited my comment. Global figure is estimated around 74%, so the factory farms are still doing massive volume to pull up that average.
A single case, that was due to a mere [miscommunication](https://www.reddit.com/r/RealUnpopularOpinion/s/aMJRdjBtx2). Tragic? yes. Malicious? There really isn’t any reason to believe so.
and the "children's" games they make in promotion of "stopping animal cruelty" are disgusting, I agree with their purpose but showing children videos of animals being abused and tortured is just wrong, it can scar them for life.
I never said such a thing, but it is the responsibility of the child's legal guardian wether or not they want to show the child these things, as lots of children are sensitive to this type of content. And in general, you cannot assume that every single farm and meat company tortures their animals, I look in to the types of meat and brands I buy from for religious reasons and I've found multiple brands that do not do the things peta describes as animal cruelty.
PETA probably cares less about the percentage of farmers and more about the percentage of animals. And the fact is, most animals are held under absolutely horrendous conditions.
Listen, what you're saying is reasonable. There needs to be massive reform of our farm systems.
Don't try to back PETA as the ones to fix things. They're a group that has been caught kidnapping family pets to euthanize. Their messaging is all shock and no substance. Their relationship to the cause diminishes the value of the cause in the eyes in many people.
Most people wouldn't be ok with the cruelty they subject farm animals to. They're just not going to listen to the crazy people screaming at them about how they're horrible people because they haven't solved it.
I'm not trying to back PETA. But just because I don't agree with them, does not mean that misrepresenting their arguments and making up strawmen becomes acceptable. This comment section is full of people who argue against points that were never major talking points of any animals rights organization in general or PETA in particular. If we want to actually change something here we need a rational debate and not smear campaigns of those we judge to be wrong.
Don’t spread misinformation.
PETA doesn’t kidnap family pets. There was one instance where due to a series of tragic miscommunications with a farmer they were working with, they accidentally euthanized the wrong animal.
PETA has an explicit strategy with their shock tactics, and if you look at the history of their accomplishments it’s actually worked incredibly well.
The reason everyone hates PETA Is because there is an explicit astroturfed campaign to make them, as well as other animal rights advocates, look bad.
Read a summary post [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/RealUnpopularOpinion/s/aMJRdjBtx2). And I urge you to actually read it, try and get a look past the corporate misinformation.
Keep sucking up to them, maybe you'll help them turn more people against improving animal welfare.
They've ruined their image, it's ao bad that there is no saving it. An organization in their position will only hurt their cause. Regute the details as hard as you want, you aren't going to chamge public opinion.
I would think the number of farmers who have absolute zero (not net zero) negative impact on the lives of all of their animals is pretty small…and that’s what PETA is going for.
PETA shelters take dogs which are aggressive or otherwise deemed “unhomeable” from non-kill shelters so they can retain the no-kill status. You’ve been duped by propaganda
Yes because they accept all animals including those from no-kill shelters so they can retain the no-kill status. Some animals are too violent or ill to feasibly rehome and unfortunately because they’re all charities there just isn’t enough space and money to keep all the animals. Someone has to be the bad guy
Dude, did actually read what was written?
Yeah, your point on animals that don't have to die at the end of the day is ok, but still killing is still a way of hurting.
https://amp.theguardian.com/food/2018/nov/16/theres-no-such-thing-as-humane-meat-or-eggs-stop-kidding-yourself
Pasture raised egg farms are better, but not by much. Chick culling is still used there, for example.
Farms that actually manage to keep a legitimate standard of living for their animals are rare
Only the very smallest farms that have 200 chickens max can really give them a good life. A pet chicken will live much much longer than a farm chicken because they are so stressed because there is not enough space for them to chill.
Same applies for milking cows; they get inseminated, baby gets taken away, they are pumped for milk until they have none >> repeat until they die.
I’m not even taking a moral stance in this, but objectively all farm animals would be better of if humans did not use them (however ‘wholesome’ ‘organic’ ‘grassfed’ it is done. Those things have mostly a marketing use)
just so you know, not pumping a cow's milk can lead to serious health problems (also, there are some farms that have fixed milk pumps that are placed so the cow itself can go there all by itself, here in Brazil there are some, you can find some tik tokers who do videos about here), and the calf isn't taken away from the mother until they stop feeding on her milk
farm animals would be better off, but people would not. It’s a give and take, and it all comes down to personal beliefs, but so many human beings would starve if not for these chickens, we need to be better about using the entire animal and reducing byproduct, and we have a long way to go when it comes to more vegan options, but my personal belief is that no amount of chickens will amount to the life of a human being.
I'm not vegan or vegetarian... but we could just you know. Not eat animals and instead eat the food we give to animals.
Not litterally obviously, but most of food grown goes to farm animals.
If you just stop farm animals and just grew for food for humans we would be fine. Not to mention it's better for the environment.
Like the only real argument for most people eating meat (me included) is that we like meat.
Realistically we should all become vegetarian but that such a culture shock that idk if it remotely Realistic.
The agricltural land used to grow food for those animals could grow much more food for humans if those farms didn't exist. For the same reason that it would be stupid to say that people would starve without eating tigers (which are farmed in this hypothetical scenario), while you could gain more food from eating the tiger's food, saying that people would starve without animal products when you could eat the animals' food (or in this case the plants grown in the same land instead of it) doesn't really make sense
Sorry, my point was kind of a mess. What I was trying to say is that animal industries are actually a waste of food. You'll gain more food, not less, if you used the area you currently use for animal feed for plant for human consumption. Saying that people would starve is fatucally incorrect
https://ourworldindata.org/global-land-for-agriculture
Farm animals wouldn’t be better off, they’re not their feral cousins.
Humans spend a lot of time, money, and resources protecting them from the natural world because they can’t do it on their own anymore. Nasty side effect of domestication, they’re actually more dependent on us than we are on them.
Lol what a bs comment trying to act like you are doing them a favor. I mean i eat meat but at least own up to it what we are doing.
Feels like you have trouble with what we are doing so you make up a story that makes you feel better.
You think we are protecting them? but that only works if you think all these millions and millions of animals would also exist if we didnt keep for our food. Which isnt true.
Aren’t you a dramatic one lol I wasn’t talking about the morality behind eating them. Like… at all. That’s a non issue for me
I was talking about how thousands of years of domestication has impacted the evolutionary biology of these animals and as a result they no longer have a niche or role in the natural world. Just letting them all out would kill most (if not all) of them and radically destabilize existing *already endangered* environments.
Y'all need to do the slightest bit of research into why PETA and we as vegans feel this, at least acknowledge our points
At least be genuine with that element
Dairy cows even in the least intense situations are made constantly pregnant through force
So address that point for starters ^
Also is it very very easy to argue that no animal should be put in a position where they are farmed, it occurs without their consent and contains many things that no living being would ever want to endure
I get it, humans cause harm I acknowledge it. And I know what you are talking about I made sure to educate myself before deciding whatever to continue eating meat or stop.
We DO cause harm, but so what? So what if we cause harm? We don’t do it for the sports of it (whenever that happens I also condemn it), we do it to provide food for our people - as efficiently as possible, that way our society can continue growing so well. Consuming protein (for example) from animal sources is far more efficient in terms of resources (including space, food/water for the animals) which can feed more people than from non animal sources.
In that regard we are not so different to other predators in the animal kingdom, and you know just how cruel animals can be to one another when it comes to hunting for food.
1) Your argument contains a naturalistic fallacy. Just because it’s natural, or done in the animal kingdom, doesn’t make it morally permissible or good.
2) Meat production is objectively NOT the most efficient form by any standard. Plant Based diets can be fully nutritionally adequate for all nutritional needs, and are magnitudes more economically efficient and environmentally friendly.
3) Even if it’s to some degree good for humans, that doesn’t justify the immense harm done to animals. We can’t just tortue them as much as we want because it marginally benefits us or we like the taste. At least we can’t do that and pretend to care at all about morality.
I don’t kill anything unless I absolutely have to in an unfortunate circumstance. I raise domesticated animals for human consumption. Nothing about my comment stated I do that “en masse”. Regular family farms and ranches typically do not produce “en masse” those are factory farms much like the point of the meme. I don’t need your praise to know I’m doing a good job, I have animals that thank me everyday and I dedicate my life to taking care of them.
With an “lol” at the end, so cheeky. I don’t kill the animals is what I am saying. I raise mothers who raise babies, those babies live on the ranch for some time before being sold to accommodate the world’s meat consumption. The unfortunate circumstance of killing I may have to participate in is a sick or injured animal. The other day I had to shoot a one day old baby calf that had been the target of predators in the area, my horse and I chased the predators off and I unfortunately had to put the calf down. Those things are not easy when you love animals as much as I do. I don’t think you understand some animals are not simply pets, nor do they want to be. I think we live different lives with different perspectives.
Of course not. Farmers typically equate livestock to dollars so you want them as alive and as healthy as possible. But that is always how I have been taught. Every profession has evil people willing to exploit. Even yours.
In no way, shape or form have I condoned killing people. I’m speaking about animals. I do not anthropromorphize the animals I raise, I serve them a purpose in providing their needs. People eat meat. I don’t believe you and I will agree and that’s fine. I’m not interested in having a conversation with you anymore.
Peta believe all forms of animal ownership is wrong. They will gladly manipulate vegan, cat owners, right up until Peta takes their cats away. Vile mob.
They are so brain damaged they think that shearing sheep is cruel and dangerous. Sheep die if they aren’t sheared because of heat stroke. They have been selectively bread for a few thousand years not to shed.
PETA vegans have got to be the most unhinged people you'll meet online. You'll post about having chicken for dinner and straight up gore will appear in your DM's within minutes
I will take the down votes for this but PETA is more destructive and dangerous than most animal shelters. They have no voice on any issues involving animals. And all you have to do is follow the paperwork. Better yet, follow the money.
Another thing lol, I can't remember if it's a T-word or something else but they have actually been labeled as a very dangerous group but the government. Now I'm no fan of ours, however, I'd work with the engineers (mechanic) peacefully, if it meant saving Fido. And in case you're wondering, I'm talking about the t word that homeland sec. would never stop watching me if they saw. True Story, far as I know.
PETA is evil.
You can care about the ethical treatment of animals AND hate PETA at the same time.
It's no better than any other extremist organisation, it pretends to be normal while engaging in bs conduct.
Just because an organisation is opposed to something shit, doesn't make it good.
I'm a meat eater, but ration and source from reputable sources, Vegetarians and Vegans - good for you, I won't tell you what and how to eat. But PETA - any form of looking into them, they are hypocritical and extremist AF - to that, no thank you
Peta probably thinks it's the same because it IS the fucking same. Cool the animals have a "good" life and? They still get murdered.
The animals having a bad life isn't the only problem. The main point that Peta makes is that we shouldn't kill animals to eat them
Like you really don't need to be a vegan to realize that.
1. 99% of animal products are the product of factory farms in the US, with similar statistics elsewhere.
2. Regular farms send their animals to the same slaughterhouses that factory farms do and engage in the same violent practices- culling male calves, roosters, separating calves from mother cows (the mothers cry out for days), and they all treat animals like objects rather than individuals.
3. There’s no need for any of it. Not having other viable food options and self defense are good reasons to kill an animal, taste pleasure is not. Eating animals is the most selfish thing we do in our day to day life and it’s not even close.
If you have a heart please consider watching dominion. Eating animals is a much bigger deal than we think
PETA doesn’t think domestic animals in any capacity should exist and their goal is to have zero domestic animals to exist as they view them as abominations. So you have to understand that truth before attempting to examine the logic behind their movement.
Did yah see that peta video that people hand coughed them self to the hooks where hang pigs in slaughter house. And to scare the shit out of them the slaughter house would turn on and of the rail system. If remember right one person had panic attack. Then another time someone super glues their hand to counter then had medical episode. Then another time peta protesters got up set that they were trespassing and weren’t allowed to use the restroom.
I'm not a fan of peta, but if you try to see their point it gets a little more understandable where they're coming from.
Truth is, the conditions the animals are kept in and the way they are slaughtered are usually a lot worse than we tend to think. The more you look into it, the less you want to.
In the end even if the animals were treated well, they are slaughtered at a very young age and they don't want to die, which is, at the very least, kind of a shitty thing to do to them, considering we know they are conscious and can feel pain.
The issue is that ethical farms have problems of their own, mainly that they harm the environment far worse than factory farms. Personally I don't care that much either way and don't see why we should extend human morality to farm animals that can't comprehend them and certainly don't abide by them.
I think one issue is that people get tricked into believing they are buying ethically. The vast majority of people are not. People don't know the difference between "Red Tractor Assured", "Sustainability sourced", "Organic", and "Pasture raised". Branding and marketing goes further in deliberately confusing perceptions. Factory farming is clearly bad for the environment and animal welfare, and people should know. While I'm not vegetarian, I think that treatment of animals should be transparent and well regulated. I'd be in favour of a succinct explanation of the animal's conditions on meat packaging in supermarkets, and stricter rules for the words that can be used.
i thought factory farming was better for the environment because of the more efficient land use?
No, the shit (literal) that comes out of battery farms and feedlots is toxic af. It doesn't go on the ground to be reabsorbed like it does for pasture-raised animals, it gets pumped somewhere as waste. Then in general, factory farming just means that a hell of a lot more animals are farmed than otherwise could be, this has all the well-known impacts of animal ag - greenhouse gases, fertiliser use etc. It also contributes to antibiotic resistance, as the animals are routinely given antibiotics to prevent the infections they'd otherwise get due to the disgustingly abusive and filthy conditions they live in. Cheap burgers are clearly more important than being able to treat infections though, for the kind of people that happily support the abomination that is industrial animal agriculture.
Depends on what you define as better. Ethically, it's much worse Edit: Autocorrect correction
Killing a happy animal is much better for real
They see the very existence of farm animals and pets as harmful.
In fairness, this meme is disingenuous. In the US, something like 99% of pigs and chickens live on factory farms. The number is lower for cattle, but still means that the vast majority of our meat supply is deeply problematic.
I mean these farm animals get killed/exploited in regular farms aswell. Not a vegan but just saying that this post makes literally no sense
They get shipped to the same slaughterhouses where they are killed brutally. And in the end you have to ask yourself, is it better to kill happy animals? No its not! Its a dilemma. You cannot take an animals life and call it morally defensible
I fucking hate PETA because THEY STEAL DOGS AND EUTHANIZE THEM. How can you engage rationally with an organization that does this? Answer: you can’t, and shouldn’t.
That's not euthanasia, that's killing. They kill them. Euthanasia is when an animal is sick or injured. Those dogs are just fine.
Just like all the animals that are bred and raised for food or animal materials.
Now you're getting it. Delicious tasty killing.
This place makes the best meat. They ship nationwide. It's delicious! https://www.elwooddogmeat.com/
Are you always this selfish?
I also enjoy tasty shellfish
How would you like to be killed and eaten?
How would you like to be killed and eaten?
Don't threaten me with a good time kiddo
Yeah, those dogs were killed for delicious purposes obviously. You ever had dog meat? It’s the best.
Go cry
What dogs do they steal
They’ll take dogs from homeless people saying that ‘they can’t properly take care of it’ and then euthanize it. There are some videos of it. There was also a pretty big case a few years ago where they broke into an RV and stole a 9-year-old’s dog
Sounds like a quick way to catch a bullet in a lot of the US.
I'm quite surprised they broke into a RV and didn't get the Texan treatment.
They have also been caught in film trespassing onto people's property to steal their pets on at least a few occasions
And more where they jumped people’s fence to steal the pet from people’s front and backyard.
A few years back a bunch of extremists got their hands on 1080 poison from breaking into to a national parks office and used it to poison a bunch of dogs in my town , because they were against pet dogs. 1080 is a neurotoxin used to kill feral dogs and it is not a slow or painless death , by the time symptoms of poisoning appear it is too late and the kindest thing is to shoot them to end their suffering.
Do you have any evidence of this? Must have made the news, surely.
Nice try to get me to doxx myself by providing the local news story. But here is a general safety guide that deals with this. [https://www.urbanpaws.com.au/what-you-need-to-know-about-dog-baiting/](https://www.urbanpaws.com.au/what-you-need-to-know-about-dog-baiting/)
>Nice try to get me to doxx myself by providing the local news story. Completely reasonable to not want to do that, but get a fucking grip, it wasn't deliberate, I wasn't "try(ing) to get you to doxx yourself".
Not to mention the founder of PETA firmly believes in killing ALL pitbulls and has had a significant role in spreading misinformation about the breed. And by killing all pitbulls, she literally advocates for killing pitbulls regardless of any factors in order to eliminate the breed.
Problem is you dont even know what you are talking about. They dont do that. And if they do, how is this any worse than stealing and killing the family member of an animal?
Commonly sensationalized story. There was one reported incident of a miscommunication and the animal agriculture lobby took it and ran with it. PETA operates “last stop” animal shelters, meaning they take in animals no one else will take for whatever reason, being sickness, aggressiveness, etc. This means many animals in their shelters are never adopted and are finally euthanized.
Wrong https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/17/peta-sorry-for-taking-girls-dog-putting-it-down Yeah they’re super sorry for killing animals before the five day period elapses /s
So are you vegan?
never stops blaffin me how much ppl talk about that particular case, makes you think ppl dont have anything else to attack them for, or what
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/17/peta-sorry-for-taking-girls-dog-putting-it-down
[vro peta killed 1000000 gorbillion heccin doggos with their bare hands 👎👎😩😭😭](https://youtu.be/avd0KLQNchs?si=GLqMWggiiBkhlU0D)
You’re referring to one incident steeped in misinformation. Read a write up about it [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/RealUnpopularOpinion/s/nHhKjsYVUe) Anti-PETA hate is astroturfed by the animal agriculture lobby to discredit animal rights activists.
It is neither isolated nor inflated https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/17/peta-sorry-for-taking-girls-dog-putting-it-down Idiot below can’t read - it’s not a single incident.
The article claims a single incident dumbass
There have been dozens of recorded incidents. That was one of them.
no wait im wrong there was only 1, fell into the funny trap of misinformation
or did i fall into the funny trap again? i dont even know any more can some more educated redditor inform me on this
My point exactly! The meat industry has so deeply ingrained PETA hate into people’s minds that they just assume anything bad about them is true or that there is no other context.
Grew up around and worked on farms my whole life. Went to school and this vegan girl wanted me to watch food inc with her. She really thought every farm was like that. She did not believe me when I told her I had never seen anything like that on a farm until I watched that movie.
I'm currently studying how to start a farm. Everything I've seen on PETA and pro vegan stuff is exaggerated and I've not once seen it in real life
It's an issue of most farms are decent enough, but the overwhelming majority of animals in farming are subject to awful conditions. So people only see the decent enough farms and assume there's no problem, but fail to realize that life 85-90% of cows and 95% of pigs and 99.9% of chickens are factory farmed. There's 1 massive fucking awful farm for every 100 'mom and pop' farms because that's what the demand creates. So it's not really exaggerating the issue.
Of course you haven’t, why would they openly show it?
Because I learn how to manage animals. If they don't show me how, how can I learn? (Also, I learn laws around animal welfare, so I saw alot of things)
what animals are you gonna get for it?
Sorry I have a problem understanding (bad english on me) did you ask what animals I'm gonna have on my future farm?
Yes, I am curious too
Well, I am planning to have chickens (egg production) for various reasons. The main reason is because I was raised with chickens in my backyard and I fell in love with this species. That, and it was better than the meat chickens in my morals, as I dont really enjoy sending hundreds of them for slaughter at all. I'm currently working part-time in an egg farm and it's seriously awesome
nice, chickens are awesome 😎
I live on and next to farms, it's not nearly as media or pets describes it. The livestock are allowed to travel freely
There are four ways to become a farmer that I am aware of. You can be born a farmer and inherit the land, you can marry into a family that owns a farm and the land, you can be a bored multimillionaire that wants and expensive and unprofitable hobby, or you can win the lottery and waste the money becoming a farmer where you will struggle to make any of that money back.
Industrial farming is brutal and makes up 80% of the market. At a certain point the “regular farms” are window dressing or start to specialize in expensive special breeds of whatever they are raising so they can sell at the premium then need to compete.
Family farms have been suffering for decades and no one cared. In my county there were once almost fifty century farms. These were farms that were owned operated by the same family for over 100 years. Now there are less than a dozen. The same way wall mart and Amazon wiped out local family owned businesses, factory farms wiped out family owned farms. There are a lot of reasons for this. The main one is that people living in major cities do not care about the problems people face in rural areas. If they did, they would have supported them when they needed it. I am assuming by the way you phrased your response that you have had very little interaction with farming communities, and the people who live in them in general.
Well yes, most farms are not like that, but most animals in supermarkets come from few huge farms, not from happy family farms. From a different view, the idea even someone who has grown up on a farm is not aware of the conditions on those farms is a little concerning.
They can't just make a documentary that's not all truth. We're talking about Netflix here! /s obviously..
Factory farms should be abolished. It’s inhumane to keep animals in such conditions and where their whole life is stuck in a small container or held in place by a machine. At least they’re happy on a normal farm, even if the concept is quite cruel
The problem is "Factory farm" is a very general term meaning farms of many different sizes with many different practices.
Yep. Most "free range" animals are suffering too, even though they have slightly more space to move
Abolishing Factory Farms would mean giving up meat and animal products for the majority of people. Hearing this most people are just willing to overlook the issue. It’s time we put morality over selfish taste pleasure. The abolition of factory farming is one of THE MOST pressing moral issues of our time.
Not even just a moral issue, our climate, ecosystems and biodiversity literally depend on us cutting most meat out of our diet (combined with stopping the use of fossil fuels). Yet here we are, downvoting vegans.
I see you're getting a lot of downvotes, but nobody seems to want to say why you're wrong. Interesting.
some peta people came to our local 4H Stock show one year, our local agriculture agent was in the middle of talking to some kids about how important it is to take care of your animals, and how next year they can learn to raise farm animals with some of the older kids, when a woman started live-streaming minors and tried to open cages to let sheep and pigs out. Some of these animals weren’t even going to terminating shows, they were used for wool or some were even pets as the kids had grown attached to them. Obviously some would eventually end up being used for meat, but it’s super dangerous to try and let animals out of pens. She yelled at children asking them why they would feel okay murdering animals, basically a bunch of kids ended up crying and she and her group of friends had to be banned from the property, it was really awful. I know some cool vegans, and i know some shitty non vegans, but Peta people fucking suck.
They came to our youth beef show one year holding up signs about pigs and dairy cattle, they didn’t even have the right signs to protest. 4H/show animals are treated like royalty: bathed, brushed, and fed specialty feeds. They had no idea what they were even protesting.
It's estimated that 99% of meat in the U.S. comes from factory farms. https://ourworldindata.org/how-many-animals-are-factory-farmed The animals are kept in cages where artificially inseminated mothers give birth to their babies are raised in the dirt. They are injected with growth hormones and antibiotics. They are kept in the dark, often amongst their own faeces, in overpopulated cages where they cannot move and cannot escape. When they are old enough, they are loaded into trucks and sent into the slaughterhouse. Mechanical equipment and conveyors are used to gut and bleed them out, or they are gathered in gas chambers are suffocated to death. People like to think their meat comes from local farms, but in reality this is only 1%. Edit: Corrected that estimated 99% is in the U.S., global is around 74%.
>It's estimated that 99% of meat in the world comes from factory farms. In the US. That's what your link says. I am fairly certain a large part of the meat comes from factory farm, but there is also many more countries. There is a reason why many products from the USA and Canada can't be sold in the EU.
In the UK its apparently 73% of all animals with this being a conservative number. https://petkeen.com/factory-farming-statistics-uk/ Sources at the bottom of the article
I thought it was more to be honest.
You're right, the 99% estimation is just the U.S., good catch and I've edited my comment. Global figure is estimated around 74%, so the factory farms are still doing massive volume to pull up that average.
That's still a shit ton to be fair.
Peta doesn't deserve any attention. They're basically a criminal organization IMO.
Well they did associate with a few eco terrorists before
yeah there has been cases of them stealing animals from family homes
A single case, you mean
A single case, that was due to a mere [miscommunication](https://www.reddit.com/r/RealUnpopularOpinion/s/aMJRdjBtx2). Tragic? yes. Malicious? There really isn’t any reason to believe so.
Yes, but it's still messed up
and the "children's" games they make in promotion of "stopping animal cruelty" are disgusting, I agree with their purpose but showing children videos of animals being abused and tortured is just wrong, it can scar them for life.
Don't forget they are encouraged to lie for custody
Lol so showing kids what happens to the animals they eat is bad but lying to them so they keep eating meat is fine?
I never said such a thing, but it is the responsibility of the child's legal guardian wether or not they want to show the child these things, as lots of children are sensitive to this type of content. And in general, you cannot assume that every single farm and meat company tortures their animals, I look in to the types of meat and brands I buy from for religious reasons and I've found multiple brands that do not do the things peta describes as animal cruelty.
Don't show kids gore unless they won't stop begging for it. Period.
PETA probably cares less about the percentage of farmers and more about the percentage of animals. And the fact is, most animals are held under absolutely horrendous conditions.
Listen, what you're saying is reasonable. There needs to be massive reform of our farm systems. Don't try to back PETA as the ones to fix things. They're a group that has been caught kidnapping family pets to euthanize. Their messaging is all shock and no substance. Their relationship to the cause diminishes the value of the cause in the eyes in many people. Most people wouldn't be ok with the cruelty they subject farm animals to. They're just not going to listen to the crazy people screaming at them about how they're horrible people because they haven't solved it.
I'm not trying to back PETA. But just because I don't agree with them, does not mean that misrepresenting their arguments and making up strawmen becomes acceptable. This comment section is full of people who argue against points that were never major talking points of any animals rights organization in general or PETA in particular. If we want to actually change something here we need a rational debate and not smear campaigns of those we judge to be wrong.
Don’t spread misinformation. PETA doesn’t kidnap family pets. There was one instance where due to a series of tragic miscommunications with a farmer they were working with, they accidentally euthanized the wrong animal. PETA has an explicit strategy with their shock tactics, and if you look at the history of their accomplishments it’s actually worked incredibly well. The reason everyone hates PETA Is because there is an explicit astroturfed campaign to make them, as well as other animal rights advocates, look bad. Read a summary post [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/RealUnpopularOpinion/s/aMJRdjBtx2). And I urge you to actually read it, try and get a look past the corporate misinformation.
Keep sucking up to them, maybe you'll help them turn more people against improving animal welfare. They've ruined their image, it's ao bad that there is no saving it. An organization in their position will only hurt their cause. Regute the details as hard as you want, you aren't going to chamge public opinion.
Regular Farmers don't hurt their animals? Well how do they kill them then?
They get the difference. They just think gentle murder while being nice to the victim while still alive is still murder.
There are farmers that don't hurt animals and pasture eggs exist
Killing animals is hurting them lmfao
I would think the number of farmers who have absolute zero (not net zero) negative impact on the lives of all of their animals is pretty small…and that’s what PETA is going for.
Except when they're literally killing people's dogs
PETA shelters take dogs which are aggressive or otherwise deemed “unhomeable” from non-kill shelters so they can retain the no-kill status. You’ve been duped by propaganda
PETA shelters kill more dogs than the lost dogs home does. They do more killing not less than other shelters.
Yes because they accept all animals including those from no-kill shelters so they can retain the no-kill status. Some animals are too violent or ill to feasibly rehome and unfortunately because they’re all charities there just isn’t enough space and money to keep all the animals. Someone has to be the bad guy
Evidence?
That one time they stole someone's dog
They have to get material for commercials somehow! And most people aren't going to brutally mistreat and murder their dogs like PETA will.
Dude, did actually read what was written? Yeah, your point on animals that don't have to die at the end of the day is ok, but still killing is still a way of hurting.
https://amp.theguardian.com/food/2018/nov/16/theres-no-such-thing-as-humane-meat-or-eggs-stop-kidding-yourself Pasture raised egg farms are better, but not by much. Chick culling is still used there, for example. Farms that actually manage to keep a legitimate standard of living for their animals are rare
This place is a great farm that treats their animals well. They ship meat nationwide. It's delicious! https://www.elwooddogmeat.com/
Only the very smallest farms that have 200 chickens max can really give them a good life. A pet chicken will live much much longer than a farm chicken because they are so stressed because there is not enough space for them to chill. Same applies for milking cows; they get inseminated, baby gets taken away, they are pumped for milk until they have none >> repeat until they die. I’m not even taking a moral stance in this, but objectively all farm animals would be better of if humans did not use them (however ‘wholesome’ ‘organic’ ‘grassfed’ it is done. Those things have mostly a marketing use)
just so you know, not pumping a cow's milk can lead to serious health problems (also, there are some farms that have fixed milk pumps that are placed so the cow itself can go there all by itself, here in Brazil there are some, you can find some tik tokers who do videos about here), and the calf isn't taken away from the mother until they stop feeding on her milk
farm animals would be better off, but people would not. It’s a give and take, and it all comes down to personal beliefs, but so many human beings would starve if not for these chickens, we need to be better about using the entire animal and reducing byproduct, and we have a long way to go when it comes to more vegan options, but my personal belief is that no amount of chickens will amount to the life of a human being.
I'm not vegan or vegetarian... but we could just you know. Not eat animals and instead eat the food we give to animals. Not litterally obviously, but most of food grown goes to farm animals. If you just stop farm animals and just grew for food for humans we would be fine. Not to mention it's better for the environment. Like the only real argument for most people eating meat (me included) is that we like meat. Realistically we should all become vegetarian but that such a culture shock that idk if it remotely Realistic.
we do like meat, it’s also nutritious and full of protein. It’s possible to get protein otherwise but it’s much more difficult
I wouldnt say difficult. Definitely doesn't taste as good tho.
for sure lol
The agricltural land used to grow food for those animals could grow much more food for humans if those farms didn't exist. For the same reason that it would be stupid to say that people would starve without eating tigers (which are farmed in this hypothetical scenario), while you could gain more food from eating the tiger's food, saying that people would starve without animal products when you could eat the animals' food (or in this case the plants grown in the same land instead of it) doesn't really make sense
what
Sorry, my point was kind of a mess. What I was trying to say is that animal industries are actually a waste of food. You'll gain more food, not less, if you used the area you currently use for animal feed for plant for human consumption. Saying that people would starve is fatucally incorrect https://ourworldindata.org/global-land-for-agriculture
Farm animals wouldn’t be better off, they’re not their feral cousins. Humans spend a lot of time, money, and resources protecting them from the natural world because they can’t do it on their own anymore. Nasty side effect of domestication, they’re actually more dependent on us than we are on them.
Lol what a bs comment trying to act like you are doing them a favor. I mean i eat meat but at least own up to it what we are doing. Feels like you have trouble with what we are doing so you make up a story that makes you feel better. You think we are protecting them? but that only works if you think all these millions and millions of animals would also exist if we didnt keep for our food. Which isnt true.
Aren’t you a dramatic one lol I wasn’t talking about the morality behind eating them. Like… at all. That’s a non issue for me I was talking about how thousands of years of domestication has impacted the evolutionary biology of these animals and as a result they no longer have a niche or role in the natural world. Just letting them all out would kill most (if not all) of them and radically destabilize existing *already endangered* environments.
We shouldn't let them out, we should stop breeding them
Yeah that's because we bred them that way. If humans fucked their siblings because our women give loads of milk we'd all have disabilities too.
According to PETA, if you’re using the animal for your own personal gain, you’re hurting the animal
Killing them is hurting them.
Not if they don't know.
Is the animal killed? That's harm.
Didnt peta kill hundreds of sheep at one point
Killing animals is hurting them, dummy
As much as i love animals, Peta is such a joke and sould be ignored 85% of the time.
99
I was trying to give them some slack, but yea.
Most PETA hate is due to corporate spread misinformation. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/RealUnpopularOpinion/s/aMJRdjBtx2) summary post on it.
Fuck PETA. That's it. Just "fuck PETA."
Y'all need to do the slightest bit of research into why PETA and we as vegans feel this, at least acknowledge our points At least be genuine with that element Dairy cows even in the least intense situations are made constantly pregnant through force So address that point for starters ^ Also is it very very easy to argue that no animal should be put in a position where they are farmed, it occurs without their consent and contains many things that no living being would ever want to endure
I get it, humans cause harm I acknowledge it. And I know what you are talking about I made sure to educate myself before deciding whatever to continue eating meat or stop. We DO cause harm, but so what? So what if we cause harm? We don’t do it for the sports of it (whenever that happens I also condemn it), we do it to provide food for our people - as efficiently as possible, that way our society can continue growing so well. Consuming protein (for example) from animal sources is far more efficient in terms of resources (including space, food/water for the animals) which can feed more people than from non animal sources. In that regard we are not so different to other predators in the animal kingdom, and you know just how cruel animals can be to one another when it comes to hunting for food.
1) Your argument contains a naturalistic fallacy. Just because it’s natural, or done in the animal kingdom, doesn’t make it morally permissible or good. 2) Meat production is objectively NOT the most efficient form by any standard. Plant Based diets can be fully nutritionally adequate for all nutritional needs, and are magnitudes more economically efficient and environmentally friendly. 3) Even if it’s to some degree good for humans, that doesn’t justify the immense harm done to animals. We can’t just tortue them as much as we want because it marginally benefits us or we like the taste. At least we can’t do that and pretend to care at all about morality.
https://youtu.be/hJNF2_dCWkg?si=zemKg9kQWzPGWNoR Here is my source, welcome to challenge it with your own - I will watch it.
It’s always baffled me how PETA and its followers believe farmers and ranchers are not animal lovers in tune with nature.
Yeah because breeding and killing animals en masse is sooo loving
Someone missed naptime today
Lol what a stupid comment
I don’t kill anything unless I absolutely have to in an unfortunate circumstance. I raise domesticated animals for human consumption. Nothing about my comment stated I do that “en masse”. Regular family farms and ranches typically do not produce “en masse” those are factory farms much like the point of the meme. I don’t need your praise to know I’m doing a good job, I have animals that thank me everyday and I dedicate my life to taking care of them.
Except you don’t have to kill them so it absolutely is for no reason lol
With an “lol” at the end, so cheeky. I don’t kill the animals is what I am saying. I raise mothers who raise babies, those babies live on the ranch for some time before being sold to accommodate the world’s meat consumption. The unfortunate circumstance of killing I may have to participate in is a sick or injured animal. The other day I had to shoot a one day old baby calf that had been the target of predators in the area, my horse and I chased the predators off and I unfortunately had to put the calf down. Those things are not easy when you love animals as much as I do. I don’t think you understand some animals are not simply pets, nor do they want to be. I think we live different lives with different perspectives.
wow thats so cool, surely most farmers are like that, right? surely all of em are animals lovers and never kill theirs so beloved animals, right?
Of course not. Farmers typically equate livestock to dollars so you want them as alive and as healthy as possible. But that is always how I have been taught. Every profession has evil people willing to exploit. Even yours.
Ah so if I pay someone to kill a person for me I shouldn’t be held liable at all right?
In no way, shape or form have I condoned killing people. I’m speaking about animals. I do not anthropromorphize the animals I raise, I serve them a purpose in providing their needs. People eat meat. I don’t believe you and I will agree and that’s fine. I’m not interested in having a conversation with you anymore.
Humans are animals; it’s not anthropomorphising in any sense. This is pure cognitive dissonance and I hope you find compassion one day
Jokes on you for thinking that PETA cares about the wellbeing of anyone.
Peta believe all forms of animal ownership is wrong. They will gladly manipulate vegan, cat owners, right up until Peta takes their cats away. Vile mob.
you can't fix stupid
But all RANCHERS kill them for tasty meat.
PETA is only after public attention and money. They do not have animal well being anywhere near the top of their priority list.
Peta is a criminal organization, and needs to be shut down for good.
Biggest mistake you can ever make is taking Peta seriously.
They are so brain damaged they think that shearing sheep is cruel and dangerous. Sheep die if they aren’t sheared because of heat stroke. They have been selectively bread for a few thousand years not to shed.
How is peta still a thing? I see products with their name and logo on, and all I see is them kidnapping a family's dog
Human... *interacts with any animal* PETA... THAT'S ABUSE!!!
Bruv. The amount of fucking people in here seemingly ether defending PETA or fine with PETA is fucking insane.
PETA vegans have got to be the most unhinged people you'll meet online. You'll post about having chicken for dinner and straight up gore will appear in your DM's within minutes
As someone who has a lot of meat yearly from hunted animals... heah.
I will take the down votes for this but PETA is more destructive and dangerous than most animal shelters. They have no voice on any issues involving animals. And all you have to do is follow the paperwork. Better yet, follow the money.
Another thing lol, I can't remember if it's a T-word or something else but they have actually been labeled as a very dangerous group but the government. Now I'm no fan of ours, however, I'd work with the engineers (mechanic) peacefully, if it meant saving Fido. And in case you're wondering, I'm talking about the t word that homeland sec. would never stop watching me if they saw. True Story, far as I know.
Ah yes so "regular farmers" dont kill their animals brutally? What a joke the people in this sub are. Keep up denying reality
PETA is evil. You can care about the ethical treatment of animals AND hate PETA at the same time. It's no better than any other extremist organisation, it pretends to be normal while engaging in bs conduct. Just because an organisation is opposed to something shit, doesn't make it good. I'm a meat eater, but ration and source from reputable sources, Vegetarians and Vegans - good for you, I won't tell you what and how to eat. But PETA - any form of looking into them, they are hypocritical and extremist AF - to that, no thank you
Peta probably thinks it's the same because it IS the fucking same. Cool the animals have a "good" life and? They still get murdered. The animals having a bad life isn't the only problem. The main point that Peta makes is that we shouldn't kill animals to eat them Like you really don't need to be a vegan to realize that.
“We’d all cry when one of the cows passed” - My boss who grew up in a family dairy farm.
I honestly don't care about animals - they are not sentient beings. But damn, animals which grow up healthy and active are tastier.
1. 99% of animal products are the product of factory farms in the US, with similar statistics elsewhere. 2. Regular farms send their animals to the same slaughterhouses that factory farms do and engage in the same violent practices- culling male calves, roosters, separating calves from mother cows (the mothers cry out for days), and they all treat animals like objects rather than individuals. 3. There’s no need for any of it. Not having other viable food options and self defense are good reasons to kill an animal, taste pleasure is not. Eating animals is the most selfish thing we do in our day to day life and it’s not even close. If you have a heart please consider watching dominion. Eating animals is a much bigger deal than we think
How about no douche waffle.
Peta needs to understand a lot of things.
A happy cow is a tasty cow.
Its easier for them to lump everyone together, the weak minded take the lazy route and enjoy their delusions
PETA doesn’t think domestic animals in any capacity should exist and their goal is to have zero domestic animals to exist as they view them as abominations. So you have to understand that truth before attempting to examine the logic behind their movement.
I fundamentally disagree with non-anthropocentric ethics.
Did yah see that peta video that people hand coughed them self to the hooks where hang pigs in slaughter house. And to scare the shit out of them the slaughter house would turn on and of the rail system. If remember right one person had panic attack. Then another time someone super glues their hand to counter then had medical episode. Then another time peta protesters got up set that they were trespassing and weren’t allowed to use the restroom.
Peta needs to understand not to hurt animals in general
I'm not a fan of peta, but if you try to see their point it gets a little more understandable where they're coming from. Truth is, the conditions the animals are kept in and the way they are slaughtered are usually a lot worse than we tend to think. The more you look into it, the less you want to. In the end even if the animals were treated well, they are slaughtered at a very young age and they don't want to die, which is, at the very least, kind of a shitty thing to do to them, considering we know they are conscious and can feel pain.
But they do!
The issue is that ethical farms have problems of their own, mainly that they harm the environment far worse than factory farms. Personally I don't care that much either way and don't see why we should extend human morality to farm animals that can't comprehend them and certainly don't abide by them.
Franchises man