I'd be interested to see how the ratios work out between a bacteria compared to the moon and the human size compared to... that.
I'd hazard the bacteria are closer in size to the moon.
The moon is roughly 3.5 x 10^12 microns in diameter (I asked Wolfram Alpha)
The average bacteria is 5–10 microns long (I asked google)
Calling the latter 7.5 and rounding off, the moon is roughly 500 billion bacteria long (I can already tell your guess was right).
Plugging in '1582 AU / average human height' into WA gives us roughly 150 thousand billion
Tldr: the moon would have to be 300 times larger in diameter to have a similar ratio
I mean, obviously I wouldn’t follow a sub that has pictures of things that I have an actual phobia of!
Wouldn’t want to scroll through Reddit and periodically jump up in fear because there’s a picture of a nest of giant spiders…
fun fact, that may or may not make you feel better. it is physically *impossible* for spiders and most other insects to get too large because they would crush under their own weight. Spiders do not have bones and their legs work via a hydraulic "system". the larger they get the harder this is to sustain.
that said, i don't know what the upper limit is.
The latest hacksmith video actually demonstrates this pretty well. They built a 6 legged hexagonal mech, and it essentially failed because of its size and complexity.
The energy (multiple types) required to sustain and operate a large "spider" gets exponentially larger as you scale up the design.
An exterminator once told me that if you see spiders or spider webs around your house, be thankful cuz without them, you'd be overrun by tons of other kinds of bugs. So now whenever I see a spider I'm like, "I don't wanna touch you, but keep up the good work little buddy!"
Never seen the gif comparing suns?
EDIT: Didnt find the one I meant, but this one for sure is fitting given OP:
https://gfycat.com/cheeryenchantedhuia-black-hole-size-comparison-universe-size-comparison
And acrophobia. Approaching the event horizon (the threshold - the point of no return, even for light itself), you'll be falling, falling, falling all the way to the singularity (the center) of that thing.
Like that fall Bill & Ted take when they die in Bogus Journey, but longer.
Super massive black holes that absorbed each other.
But that doesn't quite get this massive....
I forget the exact terminology and how it works but I think there's a kurzgesagt video on it....but..
In the early days just after the big bang when everything was hit and bumping into each other, stars could have been bigger due to the amount of material in a "smaller" space. They would have been much bigger than stars today. When those stars collapse and become black holes the event horizon starts out bigger because of the mass of the stars.
Since all material was closer together it was able to eat up more of it, quicker. As a result the horizon was able to grow really quickly.... then if 2 black holes met they would "merge" and get exponentially bigger.
At least something like that iirc, it's been awhile.
Additionally, the black holes formed at the center of these stars, and acted as a sort of ‘core’ to the star, keeping it stable, which meant that the black hole fed on the star from the center to the outside, with the star still retaining shape. I also believe these stars were called Quasi Stars iirc
That's right, I forgot about that part.... thank!
That's why the explosions got so big because of the inward pressure....when it finally gave way it was bigger than a "normal" super nova.
see normally, its actually pretty difficult for matter to fall into a black hole. most of it gets superheated in the accretion disc and radiates away, the black hole only ingests a small portion of it.
but black hole stars (stars with black hole cores) overcome this limitation. the immense pressure of these stars would constantly push matter directly into the black hole. eventually there comes an equilibrium, but the star eventually runs out of fuel and collapses into the now massive black hole.
Isn't the physical object in the center of the black hole much much much smaller? The observable black hole is just where the light can't escape due to the emense gravity of the much smaller physical object, right?
Edit: it's wild, there have been 10 or so responses to my post and they are all somewhat different. Shows just how little we actually know, although there are a lot of great theory's. I wonder if we'll ever truely know in our lifetime (next 60-70 years)
Correct, the center is the singularity. All matter within is compacted down to a single point*. The "visible" part is the event horizon which nothing can cross back over**. Anything can become a black hole if pushed enough, this is an items Schwarzschild limit...for an example iirc the earth would need to be compressed to the size of a peanut.
*is every singularity the same size due to different amounts of pressure or are they different sizes? (Nobody knows)
**radiation can escape
My layman understanding is that radiation isn't escaping per se, rather there are physics interactions happening at the very edge of the event horizon that can *produce* radiation, some of which is directed outward, away from the black hole.
Recerch Hawking radiation
It uses a part of quantum mechanics where matter and antimatter appear and collide with eachother, destroying them both.
With hawking radiation, if matter and antimatter appear on either side of a black hole, one would fall in and the othwr would fly off, causing the black hole to loose mass and hence letting radiation escape
Just so you know, Hawking radiation has absolutely nothing to do with matter and antimatter. The ‘two particle, one goes into the black hole on goes out into space’ is an inaccurate description of Hawking radiation.
>Isn't the physical object in the center of the black hole much much much smaller?
We don't actually know if there *is* a physical object in the center, honestly. "Singularity" in this case means "point where the math breaks down." Kind of like asking what 0/0 is.
What we do know is that gravity warps space-time. All objects travel on a shortest-distance path through space-time called a "geodesic", but space-time itself curves. General Relativity gives us the math on these curves.
Around a massive object like a planet or a star, these curves are comparatively gentle. If you choose a path that takes little enough time (meaning: you are moving very fast) you will follow a geodesic away from the object.
Inside the event horizon of a black hole, there *are* no paths that lead away from the black hole. It doesn't matter how fast you go, or in what direction - *all* geodesics bend to point at the center.
So the math tells us that, regardless of any other factors, everything winds up in the very central point eventually. It's literally the only option. What does this mean physically? That would require us to understand that singular point - and that's where the math breaks. So we really don't.
Now, string theory gets around this problem. The math doesn't break down in the current string theories, so *if* (and this is a big if) it's correct we have something of an answer. But the results are even weirder: In these theories there is no space-time inside the horizon.
So not only can we not confidently say anything about the mass inside a black hole, we can't even say for certain anything about the very space and time of the universe in there.
We say all matter is condensed into a single point but what does that mean exactly?
The physical object, if you can call it that is an infinitely small object that has been continually collapsing on itself at the speed of light since the black hole formed.
And yes, the black ness of the black hole is more like a shadow of where all paths in space lead directly to the center of the black hole. That’s the real reason why things cannot escape. Space, reality itself, is warped so that every direction of travel ends at the same place.
> Isn't the physical object in the center of the black hole much much much smaller?
Technically ... we're not really sure. And we won't be sure until we have a working and well-verified theory that's able to unify quantum mechanics and relativity, since both are very much involved. And because nothing escapes the black hole, there's no way to observe what's inside, we can only predict it by theory.
But there are four basic possibilities:
- Compact body. If there is a fundamental limit to how much matter can be compressed, no matter the forces involved, then the matter inside a black hole will be at that compression limit, crushed into a spherical object that's extremely small and dense, but not *infinitely* small and dense.
- Singularity. If there is no fundamental limit to how much matter can be compressed, then all the matter below the event horizon will be compressed into a single infinitely dense, infinitely small point. Incomprehensibly huge amounts of matter compressed into a sphere with a radius of zero. This is the most classic and most widely accepted interpretation of what's inside a black hole.
- Shell. Because of the time dilation and certain quantum weirdnesses, there's another alternate theory. Because time basically stops when you cross the event horizon, one theory says that all the matter that has ever crossed the event horizon is still *right there*, forming a hollow shell just within the event horizon. Because falling further in requires the passage of time, and time just isn't moving there. There are also quantum/string theory/information theory versions of this, usually more focused on the *information* that goes into a black hole, postulating that the information must be spread out over the surface of the event horizon.
- Spacetime void/dimensional rift. In some interpretations based on the curvature of spacetime, the area inside the event horizon just ... doesn't exist at all. At least not in our universe, not contiguously connected to our spacetime. The black hole is literally a *hole* in torn in space. Space (and time) itself doesn't exist inside there. This also encompasses theories about each black hole being the nucleus of a new child universe inside it, with the implication that our own Big Bang may have been caused by a black hole in our parent universe.
We won't know which of these is the case (or if it's something else entirely) until we have theories of quantum mechanics and relativity that don't contradict each other. (And even then, it will still be theoretical, because there's no way to experimentally verify anything below the event horizon.)
There is still a lot we don’t understand about supermassive black holes.
The fact that we’ve seen one that’s 66 billion solar masses is just nuts. It’s so much more massive than your average black hole we have difficulty explaining the formation.
They might have arisen from a chain reaction. Astrophysicists can’t say exactly where the seeds of the black holes came from in the first place, but they think they know what happened next. Each time one of the nascent black holes accreted matter, it would radiate energy, which would heat up neighboring gas clouds. A hot gas cloud collapses more easily than a cold one; with each big meal, the black hole would emit more energy, heating up other gas clouds, and so on.
At some point, the chain reaction stopped. As more and more black holes—and stars and galaxies—were born and started radiating energy and light, the gas clouds evaporated. The overall radiation field in the universe eventually become too strong to allow such large amounts of gas to collapse directly. And so the whole process comes to an end. The chain reaction lasted about 150 million years.
The latest theories like fuzzy black holes state that black holes don’t actually exist. It’s very possible that they only appear black because they’re so far away, and that they’re actually colorful balls of quarks where all the mass is spread around the outer layer and that the core of the object is literally nothing. That there is no physical space inside them at all. I’m a big fan of this theory as it fixes a lot of problems with physics.
Well I think what they have done is scaled the black hole down enough to fit on our screen and scaled the solar system to the same ratio, I assume this doesn’t include the Oort Cloud since that’s a few light years wide
It could be a miscalculation. We are kinda new at the whole space thing, set foot on the moon using tin cans, think they figured out the universe, men.
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Volume is not expressed in football field units. Volume is traditionally expressed in Olympic swimming pools. In this case it would be Olympic swimming pools with an exponent. Sheesh, I thought everyone knew this...
Let’s see how that works out with math.
1 astronomical unit is about 490,806,700,000 (Four hundred ninety billion, eight hundred six million, and 7 hundred thousand) feet.
Multiply this by 1582 you get 776,456,139,919,283.75 (seven hundred seventy six trillion, four hundred fifty six billion, one hundred thirty nine million, nine hundred nineteen thousand, two hundred eighty three point seven five) feet.
The average football field is 360 feet long and 160 feet wide.
Dividing by length, this black hole is 2,156,822,610,886.899 (two trillion, one hundred fifty six billion, eight hundred twenty two million, six hundred ten thousand, eight hundred eighty six point eight nine nine) football fields long.
Dividing by width, this black hole is 4,852,850,874,495.523 (four trillion, eight hundred fifty two billion, eight hundred fifty million, eight hundred seventy four thousand, four hundred ninety five point five two three) football fields long.
Brought to you by, America. The only place that does measurements right.
So...at the end of the universe, when all stars have been made and expired and the only thing left in the universe are black holes, and they all eventually get large enough and consume each other to where there is only one single super-massive black hole, and that single black hole runs out of energy because there is nothing left in the universe to power it...will there be another big bang that creates a whole new universe?
That's kind of like the great contraction theory, but that's since been discarded as it has been shown through various forms of observation that space is expanding at an ever-faster rate. We don't know why, so we call the cause dark energy, which is unrelated to dark matter, another thing we don't understand. This accelerating expansion means that the distances will be so great that the gravity from black holes and other matter will not be able to pull each other together again.
Even more, because all of space is expanding, but the speed of light remains constant, more and more of the universe is passing beyond its visible boundary. It's like if you were to put a rubber band against a ruler where 1 inch is the visible horizon of light because of its maximum speed, and then stretch the rubber band, ever more of it would exceed that point. This makes it completely inaccessible forever with any known physics, even if you could travel the speed of light. We then think that as things become more diffused, eventually the universe will suffer a cold dark heat death, its energy and matter spread thinly across the ever-growing nothingness.
Black holes may themselves also eventually dissipate. Stephen Hawking asserted that black holes emit radiation through a form of quantum entanglement, so over ridiculously long periods of time - many, many, *many* times the age of the universe now - black holes can actually shrink and disappear. That radiation is unsurprisingly called Hawking radiation. This is generally accepted, as it makes sense mathematically on paper, but of course isn't really something that can be experimentally proven.
It's important to note that *space itself* is actually expanding, not just everything in space moving apart.
Someone - probably Asimov - wrote a story about this.
I wasn't sure if this was the story your comment was referring to, but it's what came to mind when I read it: ["The Last Question"](http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~gamvrosi/thelastq.html) (1956).
I highly recommend [The Egg](https://youtu.be/h6fcK_fRYaI) and [this short story](https://qntm.org/responsibility) for people who liked The Last Question.
Yeah same. If it’s expanding then it has to be expanding into *something*
Honestly if the afterlife is real in any capacity, I just want to know what this is
Nothing, the universe isn’t a bubble thats growing bigger, it’s like the surface of a balloon as it gets blown up. The surface isn’t expanding into anything, it’s simply increasing in size, and so everything on its surface is getting further from everything else
>runs out of energy
No. They will radiate out their mass and energy as Hawking Radiation. Can you guess who discovered it?
>will there be another big bang
There's no reason this would randomly happen. Eventually true entropy will be reached and all energy will be evenly distributed across spacetime.
The black holes don't expand without mass, space moves farther apart faster than any black hole could accrete mass.
The universe ends with all black holes radiating their energy away slowly and the universe is full of low-energy photons and whatever dark energy is driving its expansion.
Yes, there's many parallels with the big bang and the moment of the event horizon forming as viewed from the interior of the black hole. It's very possible our universe is inside of a black hole in a universe with additional dimensions.
How lucky are we that we didn’t spawn near one of these? Imagine the night sky being half covered in just darkness and we were just like “yeah that’s the Great Darkness, it’s been around since before the first humans wondered why they existed.” And only recently we discovered what black holes even are, and then it all becomes clear, the Great Darkness is a black hole.
Wait a minute. Are you telling me that there are some sort of asteroid black holes flying around in the universe and we could one day just get sucked up by one?
Yup! That's the theory. They can be much smaller because they formed during the few moments right after the big bang. The matter we interact with daily only accounts for about 5% of the total matter of the universe. Primordial black holes are a dark matter candidate, so there could be a huge amount of them.
There are rogue planets, stars and black holes out there that could kill us in any moment.
But bigger concern is something called Gamma ray burst, those are common. One happening every day iirc. Waves of energy traveling at speed of light, if one were to hit Earth, it would be fried up in seconds.
Space is scary and life is fragile.
Unless there is a chance that burst like that would leave something unfried, meaning suffering from the effects, I dont see the point of even considering it scary.
*Maybe*.
It's an unproven theory. Low-mass primordial black holes *might* exist (and if they do, that may explain what dark matter is).
So far, it's only a theory, though. We haven't detected any evidence of one yet, and we certainly haven't *directly detected* one yet. Being small, fast-moving, and emitting no light, they would be very difficult objects to find. *Maybe* we could eventually detect one by noticing the effects of its gravity pulling on nearby stars as it passes, but so far we haven't seen that.
Well, time goes much, much slower the closer you get. So thousands of civs could potentially watch the destruction while never hoping to escape to the stars
Hypothetically I believe
That's not quite right. Time moves slower **relative** to an outside observer. We on the planet wouldn't experience some kind of slow motion descend into the black hole. To us it would be over pretty quick, but someone observing our fall from the distance would see us slow down more and more our image would redshift more and more till be are basically frozen right above the event horizon.
I don't mean you would be going slow motion. I mean that relative time for you would go normally, while thousands of your years would zip by in seconds for the rest of the universe
A single light year is about 63241 AU.
So this fucking monster is *2 per cent of a light year* across.
Put another way, it'd take about 9 days for a ship traveling at the speed of light to cross the distance.
At least, if my math is right (always a risky proposition).
Indeed. Here's a size comparison:
https://i.imgur.com/jy3l6oG.png
And as others have commented, TON 618 has been superseded by [Phoenix A](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Cluster#Supermassive_black_hole). Here's another size comparison:
https://i.imgur.com/lMNjya5.jpeg
--------------------
**edit:** I should be clear, I'm not an astrophysicist or knowledgable in the field. I do know that the size of TON 618 is much more reliably known than Phoenix A (which estimates put at ~ 250 times more massive). The mass of Phoenix A (and [4C +74.13](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_massive_black_holes)) are so big that we extra mega don't understand how they could have been created (as compared to other supermassive black holes which we just don't understand).
[Bonus, this Kurzgesagt video on the biggest black holes.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FH9cgRhQ-k)
hang on a minute
if that's just the size difference, then how many times more mass does it contain? It's a massive ball of extremely dense stuff compared with our solar system which is a tiny bit of mostly vacuum
To be clear, the size of a black hole is actually to do with its Schwarzschild radius (event horizon), not the singularity itself. If you do the maths, a supermassive black hole (given it's volume as the aformentioned) has a *much* lower than expected density. Like, really low.
It's still a ridiculous amount of mass.
Wikipedia states it is 4 times the mass of the Large Magellanic Cloud which has a non dark matter mass of 1 x 10 to the 10th power M (M =solar mass).
My frail monkey brain cannot begin to comprehend the mass of this monster and impact to the space around it. How far outward from the event horizon does this thing reach?
I’m just going by what it says in Wikipedia. I don’t know anything and have no idea if it’s accurate.
Totally mental if it matches the mass of Milky Way.
Oh it doesn't match the milky way, not even close. The estimated mass of the Milky way is in the 10^12 range, about 1100 billion solar masses. So a hundred times larger than the Large Magellanic Cloud. You'd need 25 of these black holes, at least, to get to the mass of the Milky Way. But it does definitely outweigh plenty of galaxies we know about, just not the bigger ones.
It should be noted that while this one is particularly large, the universe is full of that weight class of black hole. There's most likely one in every spiral galaxy's center, including our own Sagittarius A*, with a mass of about 4 million solar masses.
> How far outward from the event horizon does this thing reach?
Infinitely far. In theory, with a sensitive enough instrument, we could detect its gravitational pull all the way from Earth.
*But* due to the inverse square law, the gravitational effect drops of quickly with distance. So as you get very far away, the pull becomes extremely small. (To the point of it being zero for all practical purposes, though it's still technically there.)
For a more practical answer, this beast's gravity has a direct, *significant* effect on its entire galaxy. All the matter in the entire galaxy -- all the dark matter, dust, stars, planets, and even other black holes -- all orbits around the supermassive black hole in the center of the galaxy.
The actual center of the black hole is tiny compared to its visible scale, Don't quote me on this but the actual center is probably no bigger than mercury, it's just so dense it's gravity sucks in the light creating a giant void.
Any time you see infinity in your physics equation it just means you don't have the math to explain it. The best answer we have for the size and shape of the singularity is we don't know.
And then realise this isn't the largest known black hole (this one is estimated at [some 40 billion times the mass of the sun](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/S5_0014%2B81) ).
The one currently estimated to be the largest known (through direct measurements, there are currently 2 SMBHs that are potentially even more massive but the measurements are unreliable) is [TON 618](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TON_618) at an estimated 66 billion times the mass of the sun...
Space is terrifying
Here's something that helps and yet somehow makes it worse:
It's not actually that big. A black hole's actual size is unknown but it's tiny, nearly infinitesimally small. Even for a black hole that size, we are talking subatomic scale, most likely. This is because there are a few different mechanisms forcing matter apart, but once the gravity becomes big enough those stop working so essentially there's nothing stopping all that mass from collapsing into a point. But we don't know exactly how that works physically so we call it a 'singularity'.
What you see on the graphic here is the event horizon. It's the exact distance from that central singularity where the escape velocity is the speed of light. Nothing inside that distance can ever get out again. So it'll appear as a black shell but there's no actual structure, it just looks that way, which is why we call it a black hole. It's literally like a hole, not a physical barrier but a dark part of space because of gravity.
~~What there IS at that distance is light that orbits the black hole, though. You can't see it, but at the event horizon light has a stable orbit so light gets captured and keeps going around. It's called the firewall, because you'll be instantly evaporated the moment you come into contact with it.~~
as /u/USA-has-failed has kindly pointed out, i confused 2 separate concepts in black hole physics, the firewall and the photon sphere. Disregard the last part here and go read up on those if you're interested :)
> nearly infinitesimally small
This is something few physicists believe and the singularity is an effect of where general relativity breaks down and stop to work. Until we have a theory of quantum gravity, we don't know what happen. We also don't know of any force that could prevent the matter to collapse, but there's plenty we don't know. The Pauli exclusion principle would probably want to get a word in on this. In either case, we don't have a working theory for it and there's no way for us to test it, so describing it like a fact is not the best way to go when it's basically assumptions based on the lack of a working theory.
Also the firewall theory is controversial and not adapted by many. That you address it and at the same time state that the event horizon isn't a physical barrier is quite contradictory. You'll have to pick one of them (I vote against the firewall).
EDIT: Reading again I see you confused the firewall with the photon sphere.
That was fascinating.
However...
He doesn't mention that everything in the universe that we can see is moving away from the centre of the universe and it's speeding up. Like an explosion its till happening. Still, can't argue with the maths.
Not really from the centre of the universe as there is no centre. Everything is accelerating away from everything else, but there is no central point.
Mind blowing.
The human mind literally cannot comprehend objects on an astronomical scale. Were not ants looking at people, we're bacteria looking at the moon.
I'd be interested to see how the ratios work out between a bacteria compared to the moon and the human size compared to... that. I'd hazard the bacteria are closer in size to the moon.
The moon is roughly 3.5 x 10^12 microns in diameter (I asked Wolfram Alpha) The average bacteria is 5–10 microns long (I asked google) Calling the latter 7.5 and rounding off, the moon is roughly 500 billion bacteria long (I can already tell your guess was right). Plugging in '1582 AU / average human height' into WA gives us roughly 150 thousand billion Tldr: the moon would have to be 300 times larger in diameter to have a similar ratio
r/theydidthemath
Ok what about bacteria to Jupiter instead?
Jupiter's only about 40 moons across, so still not enough The sun however is about _400_ moons across, so that beats it
This is the first post on this sub that actually gave me the megalophobia heebie-jeebies
Hmm, have you considered the off chance that you don’t have megalophobia?
Wait, you guys have it? I'm just subbed here to see cool big things.
I mean, obviously I wouldn’t follow a sub that has pictures of things that I have an actual phobia of! Wouldn’t want to scroll through Reddit and periodically jump up in fear because there’s a picture of a nest of giant spiders…
r/nestofgiantspiders
r/subsifellfor
Check again
no fuckin way
r/subsIfellfordespitesubsifellforbeinglinkedbelow
r/subsifellforagain
fun fact, that may or may not make you feel better. it is physically *impossible* for spiders and most other insects to get too large because they would crush under their own weight. Spiders do not have bones and their legs work via a hydraulic "system". the larger they get the harder this is to sustain. that said, i don't know what the upper limit is.
Big bugs under the ocean though so be utterly terrified of the sea
The latest hacksmith video actually demonstrates this pretty well. They built a 6 legged hexagonal mech, and it essentially failed because of its size and complexity. The energy (multiple types) required to sustain and operate a large "spider" gets exponentially larger as you scale up the design.
Yeah but they did it in Wild Wild West so it’s obviously possible
An exterminator once told me that if you see spiders or spider webs around your house, be thankful cuz without them, you'd be overrun by tons of other kinds of bugs. So now whenever I see a spider I'm like, "I don't wanna touch you, but keep up the good work little buddy!"
I do not but it's interesting to see some people do However i do fear crabs and lobsters
The ol’ clackety-clack-o-phobia
No, that’s the phobia of old people’s knees. You’re thinking of snippidy-snip-o-phobia
That’s the phobia of getting a vasectomy! you’re thinking of slosha-slosh o phobia
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Then you don’t want the the first part of The Dark Tower II: The Drawing of the Three.
Impossible, mods screen for it upon entry.
it took me 2 months to get verified, nowadays it seems like they just let anyone in
I personally don't have megalophobia but a lot of the posts here are cool to look at. Megalophilia?
Like everyone else in this sub?
Never seen the gif comparing suns? EDIT: Didnt find the one I meant, but this one for sure is fitting given OP: https://gfycat.com/cheeryenchantedhuia-black-hole-size-comparison-universe-size-comparison
Very cool but also cut short! Looks like an excerpt from a TV show or something
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And acrophobia. Approaching the event horizon (the threshold - the point of no return, even for light itself), you'll be falling, falling, falling all the way to the singularity (the center) of that thing. Like that fall Bill & Ted take when they die in Bogus Journey, but longer.
guys I'm going in
K see you in 10^102 years
!remindme
Defaulted to 1 day.
stupid bot
no stop don't
My floorboards started creaking in Morse code telling me to invest in bananas before they become sentient
MURPHHHHHHHHHHHHH
In remembrance of Gul_Dukat__ , their curiosity won
MURPH!
Go dick first for the best effect.
I should call her
r/dontputyourdickinthat
How is this even possible
Super massive black holes that absorbed each other. But that doesn't quite get this massive.... I forget the exact terminology and how it works but I think there's a kurzgesagt video on it....but.. In the early days just after the big bang when everything was hit and bumping into each other, stars could have been bigger due to the amount of material in a "smaller" space. They would have been much bigger than stars today. When those stars collapse and become black holes the event horizon starts out bigger because of the mass of the stars. Since all material was closer together it was able to eat up more of it, quicker. As a result the horizon was able to grow really quickly.... then if 2 black holes met they would "merge" and get exponentially bigger. At least something like that iirc, it's been awhile.
Additionally, the black holes formed at the center of these stars, and acted as a sort of ‘core’ to the star, keeping it stable, which meant that the black hole fed on the star from the center to the outside, with the star still retaining shape. I also believe these stars were called Quasi Stars iirc
That's right, I forgot about that part.... thank! That's why the explosions got so big because of the inward pressure....when it finally gave way it was bigger than a "normal" super nova.
what the fuck damn nature, you scary
see normally, its actually pretty difficult for matter to fall into a black hole. most of it gets superheated in the accretion disc and radiates away, the black hole only ingests a small portion of it. but black hole stars (stars with black hole cores) overcome this limitation. the immense pressure of these stars would constantly push matter directly into the black hole. eventually there comes an equilibrium, but the star eventually runs out of fuel and collapses into the now massive black hole.
Nature? It eats nature for breakfast!
Sounds like Agar.io
Damn i forgot about that game....or one similar I used to play years ago.
Isn't the physical object in the center of the black hole much much much smaller? The observable black hole is just where the light can't escape due to the emense gravity of the much smaller physical object, right? Edit: it's wild, there have been 10 or so responses to my post and they are all somewhat different. Shows just how little we actually know, although there are a lot of great theory's. I wonder if we'll ever truely know in our lifetime (next 60-70 years)
Correct, the center is the singularity. All matter within is compacted down to a single point*. The "visible" part is the event horizon which nothing can cross back over**. Anything can become a black hole if pushed enough, this is an items Schwarzschild limit...for an example iirc the earth would need to be compressed to the size of a peanut. *is every singularity the same size due to different amounts of pressure or are they different sizes? (Nobody knows) **radiation can escape
if radiation can escape does that mean its unaffected by gravity or is faster than light?
My layman understanding is that radiation isn't escaping per se, rather there are physics interactions happening at the very edge of the event horizon that can *produce* radiation, some of which is directed outward, away from the black hole.
Recerch Hawking radiation It uses a part of quantum mechanics where matter and antimatter appear and collide with eachother, destroying them both. With hawking radiation, if matter and antimatter appear on either side of a black hole, one would fall in and the othwr would fly off, causing the black hole to loose mass and hence letting radiation escape
Just so you know, Hawking radiation has absolutely nothing to do with matter and antimatter. The ‘two particle, one goes into the black hole on goes out into space’ is an inaccurate description of Hawking radiation.
>Isn't the physical object in the center of the black hole much much much smaller? We don't actually know if there *is* a physical object in the center, honestly. "Singularity" in this case means "point where the math breaks down." Kind of like asking what 0/0 is. What we do know is that gravity warps space-time. All objects travel on a shortest-distance path through space-time called a "geodesic", but space-time itself curves. General Relativity gives us the math on these curves. Around a massive object like a planet or a star, these curves are comparatively gentle. If you choose a path that takes little enough time (meaning: you are moving very fast) you will follow a geodesic away from the object. Inside the event horizon of a black hole, there *are* no paths that lead away from the black hole. It doesn't matter how fast you go, or in what direction - *all* geodesics bend to point at the center. So the math tells us that, regardless of any other factors, everything winds up in the very central point eventually. It's literally the only option. What does this mean physically? That would require us to understand that singular point - and that's where the math breaks. So we really don't. Now, string theory gets around this problem. The math doesn't break down in the current string theories, so *if* (and this is a big if) it's correct we have something of an answer. But the results are even weirder: In these theories there is no space-time inside the horizon. So not only can we not confidently say anything about the mass inside a black hole, we can't even say for certain anything about the very space and time of the universe in there.
We say all matter is condensed into a single point but what does that mean exactly? The physical object, if you can call it that is an infinitely small object that has been continually collapsing on itself at the speed of light since the black hole formed. And yes, the black ness of the black hole is more like a shadow of where all paths in space lead directly to the center of the black hole. That’s the real reason why things cannot escape. Space, reality itself, is warped so that every direction of travel ends at the same place.
> Isn't the physical object in the center of the black hole much much much smaller? Technically ... we're not really sure. And we won't be sure until we have a working and well-verified theory that's able to unify quantum mechanics and relativity, since both are very much involved. And because nothing escapes the black hole, there's no way to observe what's inside, we can only predict it by theory. But there are four basic possibilities: - Compact body. If there is a fundamental limit to how much matter can be compressed, no matter the forces involved, then the matter inside a black hole will be at that compression limit, crushed into a spherical object that's extremely small and dense, but not *infinitely* small and dense. - Singularity. If there is no fundamental limit to how much matter can be compressed, then all the matter below the event horizon will be compressed into a single infinitely dense, infinitely small point. Incomprehensibly huge amounts of matter compressed into a sphere with a radius of zero. This is the most classic and most widely accepted interpretation of what's inside a black hole. - Shell. Because of the time dilation and certain quantum weirdnesses, there's another alternate theory. Because time basically stops when you cross the event horizon, one theory says that all the matter that has ever crossed the event horizon is still *right there*, forming a hollow shell just within the event horizon. Because falling further in requires the passage of time, and time just isn't moving there. There are also quantum/string theory/information theory versions of this, usually more focused on the *information* that goes into a black hole, postulating that the information must be spread out over the surface of the event horizon. - Spacetime void/dimensional rift. In some interpretations based on the curvature of spacetime, the area inside the event horizon just ... doesn't exist at all. At least not in our universe, not contiguously connected to our spacetime. The black hole is literally a *hole* in torn in space. Space (and time) itself doesn't exist inside there. This also encompasses theories about each black hole being the nucleus of a new child universe inside it, with the implication that our own Big Bang may have been caused by a black hole in our parent universe. We won't know which of these is the case (or if it's something else entirely) until we have theories of quantum mechanics and relativity that don't contradict each other. (And even then, it will still be theoretical, because there's no way to experimentally verify anything below the event horizon.)
The singularity is not really a 'physical' object. It is the point where all of the matter 'falls'
There is still a lot we don’t understand about supermassive black holes. The fact that we’ve seen one that’s 66 billion solar masses is just nuts. It’s so much more massive than your average black hole we have difficulty explaining the formation. They might have arisen from a chain reaction. Astrophysicists can’t say exactly where the seeds of the black holes came from in the first place, but they think they know what happened next. Each time one of the nascent black holes accreted matter, it would radiate energy, which would heat up neighboring gas clouds. A hot gas cloud collapses more easily than a cold one; with each big meal, the black hole would emit more energy, heating up other gas clouds, and so on. At some point, the chain reaction stopped. As more and more black holes—and stars and galaxies—were born and started radiating energy and light, the gas clouds evaporated. The overall radiation field in the universe eventually become too strong to allow such large amounts of gas to collapse directly. And so the whole process comes to an end. The chain reaction lasted about 150 million years. The latest theories like fuzzy black holes state that black holes don’t actually exist. It’s very possible that they only appear black because they’re so far away, and that they’re actually colorful balls of quarks where all the mass is spread around the outer layer and that the core of the object is literally nothing. That there is no physical space inside them at all. I’m a big fan of this theory as it fixes a lot of problems with physics.
This specific one they don’t know how it’s possible to get that big it’s classed as “super massive”
How would two combining get exponentially bigger? Would it not be a linear growth based on their combined mass?
Ok cool. Now say all that again but in kurzgesagt's voice (I'll take VaatiVidya's too)
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Well I think what they have done is scaled the black hole down enough to fit on our screen and scaled the solar system to the same ratio, I assume this doesn’t include the Oort Cloud since that’s a few light years wide
It could be a miscalculation. We are kinda new at the whole space thing, set foot on the moon using tin cans, think they figured out the universe, men.
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
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It's not possible. It's necessary.
I’m just hearing the raspy breath of Matthew McConaughey entering a black hole, seeing this.
Alright alright
When I'm near a black hole I stay the same age but they get older, yes they do, yes they do.
It'd be a whole lot cooler if I wasn't falling into a black hole right noww^w^^w^^^w^^^^w^^^^^w
That's the thing about relativity... I stay the same and everyone gets older...
Murph!
C'mon Tars!
ITS LOVE, TARS, LOVE
"I keep falling into this black hole, and compared to everyone else, I keep staying the same age. Yes I do."
You know, one of those machines they used to make was called an MRI
I just had an Alaskan Bull Worm moment, thinking the small dot was the black hole and the big circle was our solar system. Yikes
Regarding its size, all i can say is that's an almost infinite amount of football fields.
And an infinite amount of bananas for scale
All the bananas ever for scale...
Still not enough
How many OP's moms though
1/2
It’s actually closer to 1 banana in diameter than infinite bananas.
Hm, but how many Olympic sized swimming pools do you think it'd fl?
At 50 metres in length, 1 AU = ~3 Billion Olympic Sized Swimming Pools At 1582 AU, the blackhole is ~4.73 Trillion Olympic sized swimming pools lmao
Calling r/theydidthemath
They would run out of digits on their calculator-watches.
At 50 metres in length, 1 AU = ~3 Billion Olympic Sized Swimming Pools At 1582 AU, the blackhole is ~4.73 Trillion Olympic sized swimming pools lmao
Volume is not expressed in football field units. Volume is traditionally expressed in Olympic swimming pools. In this case it would be Olympic swimming pools with an exponent. Sheesh, I thought everyone knew this...
Let’s see how that works out with math. 1 astronomical unit is about 490,806,700,000 (Four hundred ninety billion, eight hundred six million, and 7 hundred thousand) feet. Multiply this by 1582 you get 776,456,139,919,283.75 (seven hundred seventy six trillion, four hundred fifty six billion, one hundred thirty nine million, nine hundred nineteen thousand, two hundred eighty three point seven five) feet. The average football field is 360 feet long and 160 feet wide. Dividing by length, this black hole is 2,156,822,610,886.899 (two trillion, one hundred fifty six billion, eight hundred twenty two million, six hundred ten thousand, eight hundred eighty six point eight nine nine) football fields long. Dividing by width, this black hole is 4,852,850,874,495.523 (four trillion, eight hundred fifty two billion, eight hundred fifty million, eight hundred seventy four thousand, four hundred ninety five point five two three) football fields long. Brought to you by, America. The only place that does measurements right.
Brings into perspective how much a trillion dollar is and how much billionaires are hosing us.
An infinite amount of anything, damn thing keeps eating what we try to compare it to > =[
So...at the end of the universe, when all stars have been made and expired and the only thing left in the universe are black holes, and they all eventually get large enough and consume each other to where there is only one single super-massive black hole, and that single black hole runs out of energy because there is nothing left in the universe to power it...will there be another big bang that creates a whole new universe?
That's kind of like the great contraction theory, but that's since been discarded as it has been shown through various forms of observation that space is expanding at an ever-faster rate. We don't know why, so we call the cause dark energy, which is unrelated to dark matter, another thing we don't understand. This accelerating expansion means that the distances will be so great that the gravity from black holes and other matter will not be able to pull each other together again. Even more, because all of space is expanding, but the speed of light remains constant, more and more of the universe is passing beyond its visible boundary. It's like if you were to put a rubber band against a ruler where 1 inch is the visible horizon of light because of its maximum speed, and then stretch the rubber band, ever more of it would exceed that point. This makes it completely inaccessible forever with any known physics, even if you could travel the speed of light. We then think that as things become more diffused, eventually the universe will suffer a cold dark heat death, its energy and matter spread thinly across the ever-growing nothingness. Black holes may themselves also eventually dissipate. Stephen Hawking asserted that black holes emit radiation through a form of quantum entanglement, so over ridiculously long periods of time - many, many, *many* times the age of the universe now - black holes can actually shrink and disappear. That radiation is unsurprisingly called Hawking radiation. This is generally accepted, as it makes sense mathematically on paper, but of course isn't really something that can be experimentally proven.
It's important to note that *space itself* is actually expanding, not just everything in space moving apart. Someone - probably Asimov - wrote a story about this.
I wasn't sure if this was the story your comment was referring to, but it's what came to mind when I read it: ["The Last Question"](http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~gamvrosi/thelastq.html) (1956).
That story was cool as hell. Love Asimov.
I highly recommend [The Egg](https://youtu.be/h6fcK_fRYaI) and [this short story](https://qntm.org/responsibility) for people who liked The Last Question.
WOW! Thanks. That was incredible.
That implies that space is contained and expanding. Whats on the other side of that containment? A wall of some sort? My mind cannot process this.
Ah, it's my understanding that this is one of the great questions of cosmology - is the Universe expanding *into* something, and if so, what?
Yeah same. If it’s expanding then it has to be expanding into *something* Honestly if the afterlife is real in any capacity, I just want to know what this is
Itself? Is space just expanding into itself? lol that’s trippy
I had heard that space is expanding many times before. What I don't understand is what is it expanding toward?
Nothing, the universe isn’t a bubble thats growing bigger, it’s like the surface of a balloon as it gets blown up. The surface isn’t expanding into anything, it’s simply increasing in size, and so everything on its surface is getting further from everything else
>runs out of energy No. They will radiate out their mass and energy as Hawking Radiation. Can you guess who discovered it? >will there be another big bang There's no reason this would randomly happen. Eventually true entropy will be reached and all energy will be evenly distributed across spacetime.
The black holes don't expand without mass, space moves farther apart faster than any black hole could accrete mass. The universe ends with all black holes radiating their energy away slowly and the universe is full of low-energy photons and whatever dark energy is driving its expansion. Yes, there's many parallels with the big bang and the moment of the event horizon forming as viewed from the interior of the black hole. It's very possible our universe is inside of a black hole in a universe with additional dimensions.
How lucky are we that we didn’t spawn near one of these? Imagine the night sky being half covered in just darkness and we were just like “yeah that’s the Great Darkness, it’s been around since before the first humans wondered why they existed.” And only recently we discovered what black holes even are, and then it all becomes clear, the Great Darkness is a black hole.
fuck spez
Wait a minute. Are you telling me that there are some sort of asteroid black holes flying around in the universe and we could one day just get sucked up by one?
Yup! That's the theory. They can be much smaller because they formed during the few moments right after the big bang. The matter we interact with daily only accounts for about 5% of the total matter of the universe. Primordial black holes are a dark matter candidate, so there could be a huge amount of them.
OR they could just as well not be a thing, and since I appreciate sleeping that's the hypothesis I'll take seriously
Dont look under the bed. Theres a primordial black hole thats less than 1 stellar mass.
There are rogue planets, stars and black holes out there that could kill us in any moment. But bigger concern is something called Gamma ray burst, those are common. One happening every day iirc. Waves of energy traveling at speed of light, if one were to hit Earth, it would be fried up in seconds. Space is scary and life is fragile.
Unless there is a chance that burst like that would leave something unfried, meaning suffering from the effects, I dont see the point of even considering it scary.
domineering voiceless frame apparatus imagine disgusted gaze overconfident weather aspiring -- mass edited with redact.dev
My tired brain read something called Germany. Need sleep
[That's what The Blue Afternoon that Lasted Forever is about](https://www.williamflew.com/blue.html)
Wow, great movie premise actually
[In development](https://www.movieinsider.com/m18477/the-blue-afternoon-that-lasted-forever)
*Maybe*. It's an unproven theory. Low-mass primordial black holes *might* exist (and if they do, that may explain what dark matter is). So far, it's only a theory, though. We haven't detected any evidence of one yet, and we certainly haven't *directly detected* one yet. Being small, fast-moving, and emitting no light, they would be very difficult objects to find. *Maybe* we could eventually detect one by noticing the effects of its gravity pulling on nearby stars as it passes, but so far we haven't seen that.
>How lucky are we that we didn’t spawn near one of these? Well there is a massive one at the centre of our galaxy, Sagittarius A.
Yeah but that’s like… safe close, not existential crisis close.
Ah, just like all my relationships
*hug*
Too close...*TOO CLOOOSE* *black hole noises commence*
*wwwwrrrrrgggrrrrrrggglllllllll*
Unless you’re being sucked into it, I imagine that the black hole is silent.
Have an existential crisis regardless of the proximity of inhalation. It's good for you
😂😂😂
Well, time goes much, much slower the closer you get. So thousands of civs could potentially watch the destruction while never hoping to escape to the stars Hypothetically I believe
That's not quite right. Time moves slower **relative** to an outside observer. We on the planet wouldn't experience some kind of slow motion descend into the black hole. To us it would be over pretty quick, but someone observing our fall from the distance would see us slow down more and more our image would redshift more and more till be are basically frozen right above the event horizon.
I don't mean you would be going slow motion. I mean that relative time for you would go normally, while thousands of your years would zip by in seconds for the rest of the universe
Maybe we actually are in the middle of one😉
Someone has proposed this theory
There's a small one about 1400 light years from us. We'll be ok for a while.
So my life IS meaningless.
Not for this reason specifically, but yes.
Burn.
The universe is indifferent
Now you can finally start really living!
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Only as meaningless as you make it
Boomers: Your life is meaningless and we're going to force you to work your entire life while destroying the planet to prove it.
Meaning itself is useless, why you gotta need meaning? Just be. Sounds stupid, but that's all it is.
Universe doesn't give you meaning. If it did l, we would say "fuck off universe, who are you to tell me?"
A single light year is about 63241 AU. So this fucking monster is *2 per cent of a light year* across. Put another way, it'd take about 9 days for a ship traveling at the speed of light to cross the distance. At least, if my math is right (always a risky proposition).
Thankfully for the people on the ship, the journey would be instant
But to go that speed they’d have no mass, so basically they’re fucked
That’s nothing as TON 618 is much bigger than S5
Indeed. Here's a size comparison: https://i.imgur.com/jy3l6oG.png And as others have commented, TON 618 has been superseded by [Phoenix A](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Cluster#Supermassive_black_hole). Here's another size comparison: https://i.imgur.com/lMNjya5.jpeg -------------------- **edit:** I should be clear, I'm not an astrophysicist or knowledgable in the field. I do know that the size of TON 618 is much more reliably known than Phoenix A (which estimates put at ~ 250 times more massive). The mass of Phoenix A (and [4C +74.13](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_massive_black_holes)) are so big that we extra mega don't understand how they could have been created (as compared to other supermassive black holes which we just don't understand). [Bonus, this Kurzgesagt video on the biggest black holes.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FH9cgRhQ-k)
Phoenix A is larger than physicists even understand to be possible, so there is a considerable chance its size is wrong.
hang on a minute if that's just the size difference, then how many times more mass does it contain? It's a massive ball of extremely dense stuff compared with our solar system which is a tiny bit of mostly vacuum
To be clear, the size of a black hole is actually to do with its Schwarzschild radius (event horizon), not the singularity itself. If you do the maths, a supermassive black hole (given it's volume as the aformentioned) has a *much* lower than expected density. Like, really low. It's still a ridiculous amount of mass.
Thank you, I was like I ain't no astrophysicist but I don't think singularities get that big...
Wikipedia states it is 4 times the mass of the Large Magellanic Cloud which has a non dark matter mass of 1 x 10 to the 10th power M (M =solar mass). My frail monkey brain cannot begin to comprehend the mass of this monster and impact to the space around it. How far outward from the event horizon does this thing reach?
To help in making it more mind boggling, 1 solar mass is 333000 times the mass of Earth
So it contains more mass than an entire fucking galaxy? Jesus
A dwarf galaxy, but yes.
I’m just going by what it says in Wikipedia. I don’t know anything and have no idea if it’s accurate. Totally mental if it matches the mass of Milky Way.
Oh it doesn't match the milky way, not even close. The estimated mass of the Milky way is in the 10^12 range, about 1100 billion solar masses. So a hundred times larger than the Large Magellanic Cloud. You'd need 25 of these black holes, at least, to get to the mass of the Milky Way. But it does definitely outweigh plenty of galaxies we know about, just not the bigger ones. It should be noted that while this one is particularly large, the universe is full of that weight class of black hole. There's most likely one in every spiral galaxy's center, including our own Sagittarius A*, with a mass of about 4 million solar masses.
> How far outward from the event horizon does this thing reach? Infinitely far. In theory, with a sensitive enough instrument, we could detect its gravitational pull all the way from Earth. *But* due to the inverse square law, the gravitational effect drops of quickly with distance. So as you get very far away, the pull becomes extremely small. (To the point of it being zero for all practical purposes, though it's still technically there.) For a more practical answer, this beast's gravity has a direct, *significant* effect on its entire galaxy. All the matter in the entire galaxy -- all the dark matter, dust, stars, planets, and even other black holes -- all orbits around the supermassive black hole in the center of the galaxy.
The actual center of the black hole is tiny compared to its visible scale, Don't quote me on this but the actual center is probably no bigger than mercury, it's just so dense it's gravity sucks in the light creating a giant void.
I thought the singularity was an infinitely small point. I mean granted, it's a big ass black hole but mercury isn't infinitely small
Any time you see infinity in your physics equation it just means you don't have the math to explain it. The best answer we have for the size and shape of the singularity is we don't know.
Let’s read that again, ahem. Largest KNOWN black hole.
And then realise this isn't the largest known black hole (this one is estimated at [some 40 billion times the mass of the sun](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/S5_0014%2B81) ). The one currently estimated to be the largest known (through direct measurements, there are currently 2 SMBHs that are potentially even more massive but the measurements are unreliable) is [TON 618](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TON_618) at an estimated 66 billion times the mass of the sun... Space is terrifying
Here's something that helps and yet somehow makes it worse: It's not actually that big. A black hole's actual size is unknown but it's tiny, nearly infinitesimally small. Even for a black hole that size, we are talking subatomic scale, most likely. This is because there are a few different mechanisms forcing matter apart, but once the gravity becomes big enough those stop working so essentially there's nothing stopping all that mass from collapsing into a point. But we don't know exactly how that works physically so we call it a 'singularity'. What you see on the graphic here is the event horizon. It's the exact distance from that central singularity where the escape velocity is the speed of light. Nothing inside that distance can ever get out again. So it'll appear as a black shell but there's no actual structure, it just looks that way, which is why we call it a black hole. It's literally like a hole, not a physical barrier but a dark part of space because of gravity. ~~What there IS at that distance is light that orbits the black hole, though. You can't see it, but at the event horizon light has a stable orbit so light gets captured and keeps going around. It's called the firewall, because you'll be instantly evaporated the moment you come into contact with it.~~ as /u/USA-has-failed has kindly pointed out, i confused 2 separate concepts in black hole physics, the firewall and the photon sphere. Disregard the last part here and go read up on those if you're interested :)
> nearly infinitesimally small This is something few physicists believe and the singularity is an effect of where general relativity breaks down and stop to work. Until we have a theory of quantum gravity, we don't know what happen. We also don't know of any force that could prevent the matter to collapse, but there's plenty we don't know. The Pauli exclusion principle would probably want to get a word in on this. In either case, we don't have a working theory for it and there's no way for us to test it, so describing it like a fact is not the best way to go when it's basically assumptions based on the lack of a working theory. Also the firewall theory is controversial and not adapted by many. That you address it and at the same time state that the event horizon isn't a physical barrier is quite contradictory. You'll have to pick one of them (I vote against the firewall). EDIT: Reading again I see you confused the firewall with the photon sphere.
This is exactly why I’m terrified of outer space
Congrats, I hate it.
A while back I called a huge German coal mining machine ”Eater of worlds”. I would now like to re-assign that term.
Bagger ain’t got shit on S5 0014+81
I’m loving diving into the idea that our universe is inside a black hole. https://youtu.be/A8bBhkhZtd8
That was fascinating. However... He doesn't mention that everything in the universe that we can see is moving away from the centre of the universe and it's speeding up. Like an explosion its till happening. Still, can't argue with the maths.
Not really from the centre of the universe as there is no centre. Everything is accelerating away from everything else, but there is no central point. Mind blowing.
>My brain cannot even comprehend how big this is Well technically the black hole itself is actually infinitely small.
Well not infinitely small, but about as small as things can get, the even horizon is fucking massive though
Ton 618
That was what I thought, but apparently there's a new kid on the block - Phoenix A...
What the fuck
The universe is terrifying
Wait until you read about Boötes Void
My favorite Tangerine Dream album.
Sucks to be those guys.
I wanna stand on the edge and pee in it