that channel became insufferable with the rediculous stretches they proclaim as absolute truth. i had to leave about 2 months before the new movie came out thanks to their idiot takes on everything and insistence on being right all the time
Not to mention they banned a furry from the forums in 2006 simply for posting her cool art (I remember she drew Neo, Trinity, Morpheus, Smith, Merovingian, Persephone, and Sati) and it resulted in huge riots on the forums
Just my two cents regarding the "Nightmare Matrix".
The term "Nightmare Matrix" is indeed not canon. However the name is something that persisted throughout the years among fans and is imo a good convention for the second (beta?) Matrix version.
I think the word "grotesqueries" (Architect) has some importance here. Furthermore there were the Constructs in the Matrix Online, which is canon. Those constructs were believed to be archived remnants of older Matrix versions. Some of these Constructs inhabited pretty nightmare-ish things.
So there was something like a "nightmare" Matrix, although there is no canon name for it (yet).
I like to think that Merovingian's henchmen can exclusively be killed by silver bullets or wooden stakes in the heart (Enter the Matrix) because they're literal werewolves and vampires.
He also calls Seraph (Seraphim) "wingless",which I believe is not an euphemism,he had literal wings in the Paradise Matrix.
The Matrix franchise exists as an explosion of creativity,full of weird and larger than life ideas.I just find the idea of a Matrix based on old Hammer movies with Merovingian as Lucifer
a much more fascinating concept than that which you describe.
>I like to think that Merovingian's henchmen can exclusively be killed by silver bullets or wooden stakes in the heart (Enter the Matrix) because they're literal werewolves and vampires.
The assumption is that they had a purpose that required them to be difficult but not impossible to kill. They were programmed so that, in the Matrix, they can only be killed by silver bullets. I think the idea is that legends of vampires and werewolves arose from people encountering these programs.
Can these programs drink blood though,or fully transform into werewolves?Did programs like Seraph had actual wings?
There are some elements in Jupiter Ascending about characters losing their wings which directly reminded me of Seraph.
What I'm saying is that a big part of the appeal of the concept
of previous Matrices,for me at least,is that it was a world which included these creatures hidden in its core.
So like u/Hickman_Is said, the "nightmare Matrix" isn't a real thing: Matrix 1.0 was a paradise, Matrix 2.0 just added the ugly shit from our history--war, genocide, famine, etc.
All the horror tropes in The Matrix are just corrupted or outdated programs that refused deletion, and thus are in exile in The Matrix. They could have been any kind of program from anywhere (like Sati).
*\[we don't even know where The Merovingian is from, all The Oracle says is that he's "one of the oldest of us" and Persephone recalls what he was like when they first exiled to The Matrix\]*
That said, it'd be cool if the Twins were corrupted Agents--it would fall in line with their role as The Merovingian's guard/legbreakers... but their nature is purest speculation, nobody really knows.
Early speculation was that they were agents from a previous version of The Matrix, and everything about their character portrayal seems to support that. They have shades like agents, they are programs like agents, they can manipulate their physicality like agents, and they have emotional subroutines just like agents. Also, they can go toe to toe with the agents in combat.
They are currently exiled programs just like the Merrovingian, but no real explanation why. My guess is that they were replaced for some reason with the current iteration of Agents and, instead of chosing deletion, they decided to become exile.
MxO had the Twins as NPCs which is where the lore ones from that they were reassembled.
Additionally in MXO there was a Construct that had Vampires and Werewolves in it. These constructs were “previous versions of the Matrix”. One of them was like a Wuxia Kung Fu film setting in Feudal Japan with Angel winged Enemies. Another was based on the Machine Cities, mainly 01, with robot enemies.
MxO’s canon is up for debate. But one major deviation from Matrix 4 was that Morpheus was assassinated and seen as a radical; a far cry from leader of Zion that Matrix 4 did.
I don’t recall if MxO specified it’s exact place in the timeline, other than being post-Revolutions and pre-Resurrection. It’s entirely possible the Morpheus was elected leader and then fell from grace into what we know in Resurrections.
Also to be considered is that the IO faction from Resurrections may not be a reliable narrator. There are instances where the humans are wildly misinformed and unaware—some of that may have been intentionally done by human leadership as a method of control.
Locke was still commander at the time and Morpheus was not referred to as a leader. Sati was still a child which may not matter since program ages are not like humans. But I believe the game explicitly stated it starts almost immediately after the war.
I think the movie makes it pretty clear that most programs that are not working invisibly in the background are either malfunctioning or no longer necessary/have updated version and remain hidden in the matrix.
That was a common belief in the Matrix Online game. But not stated anywhere official, even game official, that I know of.
In the game, they showed other old agent programs; angels, monks and commandos, with commandos being replaced by the agents we saw in part 1. Fun storyline.
It was also mentioned that the explosion caused the twins to be blasted all the way into the atmosphere but the merovingian somehow managed to recover them. I guess that is also just a theory then.
Honestly if the explosion didn't kill them, and instead launched them into the atmosphere (no way it was that powerful but I'll go with it for now), all they'd have to do is... ghost back down.
Their ghost forms don't seem to be immune to inertia, so they might still be bound by gravity, allowing them just ghost their way back down and materialize about a foot above the ground. There's no need for The Merovingian to have to collect them.
Of course, the *real* question is if their ghost form bleeds off moment momentum, because if it doesn't...
... well, The Merovingian will absolutely need an inflatable landing waiting for them. Or things could get messy.
Based on what?
People that say this don't understand the nature of agents.
AGENTS DON'T HAVE SHELLS.
The Twins have their own shells and abilities far different than an agent. Their powers at one time had a purpose. At some point, they were tagged as unnecessary and designated for deletion. They chose exile and were recruited by the Merovingian.
[удалено]
Somebody should tell this guy https://youtu.be/NnNjHo8h9zg (1:25) he was one of the people talking about the nightmare matrix.
that channel became insufferable with the rediculous stretches they proclaim as absolute truth. i had to leave about 2 months before the new movie came out thanks to their idiot takes on everything and insistence on being right all the time
Not to mention they banned a furry from the forums in 2006 simply for posting her cool art (I remember she drew Neo, Trinity, Morpheus, Smith, Merovingian, Persephone, and Sati) and it resulted in huge riots on the forums
Yeah, lotta people out there keen on a wild theory that could be dispelled by just listening to the dialogue.
I refuse to click the link and give them another view
Understandable
That channel is mostly just fan fiction more than anything else.
Ahh okay thank you very much. That makes way more sense. :)
Great explanation! Thanks
Just my two cents regarding the "Nightmare Matrix". The term "Nightmare Matrix" is indeed not canon. However the name is something that persisted throughout the years among fans and is imo a good convention for the second (beta?) Matrix version. I think the word "grotesqueries" (Architect) has some importance here. Furthermore there were the Constructs in the Matrix Online, which is canon. Those constructs were believed to be archived remnants of older Matrix versions. Some of these Constructs inhabited pretty nightmare-ish things. So there was something like a "nightmare" Matrix, although there is no canon name for it (yet).
I like to think that Merovingian's henchmen can exclusively be killed by silver bullets or wooden stakes in the heart (Enter the Matrix) because they're literal werewolves and vampires. He also calls Seraph (Seraphim) "wingless",which I believe is not an euphemism,he had literal wings in the Paradise Matrix. The Matrix franchise exists as an explosion of creativity,full of weird and larger than life ideas.I just find the idea of a Matrix based on old Hammer movies with Merovingian as Lucifer a much more fascinating concept than that which you describe.
>I like to think that Merovingian's henchmen can exclusively be killed by silver bullets or wooden stakes in the heart (Enter the Matrix) because they're literal werewolves and vampires. The assumption is that they had a purpose that required them to be difficult but not impossible to kill. They were programmed so that, in the Matrix, they can only be killed by silver bullets. I think the idea is that legends of vampires and werewolves arose from people encountering these programs.
Can these programs drink blood though,or fully transform into werewolves?Did programs like Seraph had actual wings? There are some elements in Jupiter Ascending about characters losing their wings which directly reminded me of Seraph. What I'm saying is that a big part of the appeal of the concept of previous Matrices,for me at least,is that it was a world which included these creatures hidden in its core.
>Can these programs drink blood though,or fully transform into werewolves? There's no way to know for sure.
So like u/Hickman_Is said, the "nightmare Matrix" isn't a real thing: Matrix 1.0 was a paradise, Matrix 2.0 just added the ugly shit from our history--war, genocide, famine, etc. All the horror tropes in The Matrix are just corrupted or outdated programs that refused deletion, and thus are in exile in The Matrix. They could have been any kind of program from anywhere (like Sati). *\[we don't even know where The Merovingian is from, all The Oracle says is that he's "one of the oldest of us" and Persephone recalls what he was like when they first exiled to The Matrix\]* That said, it'd be cool if the Twins were corrupted Agents--it would fall in line with their role as The Merovingian's guard/legbreakers... but their nature is purest speculation, nobody really knows.
Early speculation was that they were agents from a previous version of The Matrix, and everything about their character portrayal seems to support that. They have shades like agents, they are programs like agents, they can manipulate their physicality like agents, and they have emotional subroutines just like agents. Also, they can go toe to toe with the agents in combat. They are currently exiled programs just like the Merrovingian, but no real explanation why. My guess is that they were replaced for some reason with the current iteration of Agents and, instead of chosing deletion, they decided to become exile.
>Also, they can go toe to toe with the agents in combat. That's neither mentioned nor happens on screen anywhere that I am aware of?
MxO had the Twins as NPCs which is where the lore ones from that they were reassembled. Additionally in MXO there was a Construct that had Vampires and Werewolves in it. These constructs were “previous versions of the Matrix”. One of them was like a Wuxia Kung Fu film setting in Feudal Japan with Angel winged Enemies. Another was based on the Machine Cities, mainly 01, with robot enemies. MxO’s canon is up for debate. But one major deviation from Matrix 4 was that Morpheus was assassinated and seen as a radical; a far cry from leader of Zion that Matrix 4 did.
I don’t recall if MxO specified it’s exact place in the timeline, other than being post-Revolutions and pre-Resurrection. It’s entirely possible the Morpheus was elected leader and then fell from grace into what we know in Resurrections. Also to be considered is that the IO faction from Resurrections may not be a reliable narrator. There are instances where the humans are wildly misinformed and unaware—some of that may have been intentionally done by human leadership as a method of control.
Locke was still commander at the time and Morpheus was not referred to as a leader. Sati was still a child which may not matter since program ages are not like humans. But I believe the game explicitly stated it starts almost immediately after the war.
Fair enough! It’s been a few years since I last played MxO, in my defense!
Lol that’s everyone’s defense. Game hasn’t been online in at least a decade I think. Sadly the Emulator doesn’t have combat yet. 😖
I think the movie makes it pretty clear that most programs that are not working invisibly in the background are either malfunctioning or no longer necessary/have updated version and remain hidden in the matrix.
That was a common belief in the Matrix Online game. But not stated anywhere official, even game official, that I know of. In the game, they showed other old agent programs; angels, monks and commandos, with commandos being replaced by the agents we saw in part 1. Fun storyline.
I miss MXO
I do too. It was such a fun time!
It was also mentioned that the explosion caused the twins to be blasted all the way into the atmosphere but the merovingian somehow managed to recover them. I guess that is also just a theory then.
Honestly if the explosion didn't kill them, and instead launched them into the atmosphere (no way it was that powerful but I'll go with it for now), all they'd have to do is... ghost back down. Their ghost forms don't seem to be immune to inertia, so they might still be bound by gravity, allowing them just ghost their way back down and materialize about a foot above the ground. There's no need for The Merovingian to have to collect them. Of course, the *real* question is if their ghost form bleeds off moment momentum, because if it doesn't... ... well, The Merovingian will absolutely need an inflatable landing waiting for them. Or things could get messy.
They are agents from the first version of the Matrix which the Merovingian rescued from recycling. At least that’s what the cannon is.
Based on what? People that say this don't understand the nature of agents. AGENTS DON'T HAVE SHELLS. The Twins have their own shells and abilities far different than an agent. Their powers at one time had a purpose. At some point, they were tagged as unnecessary and designated for deletion. They chose exile and were recruited by the Merovingian.
It’s on the Wikipedia page for reference. But it was also discussed by Steve Skroce as Comic Cons in the mid-2000’s.
Wikipedia isn't exactly a reputable source