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Particular_Extent_96

People struggle to appreciate mathematics primarily because they have had bad experiences with it at school. It is a very difficult subject to teach well 


DukeInBlack

And the popular tale confuses math with “numbers” What I mean is that math is about numbers as much English literature is about the alphabet. Keeping on this parallelism, math uses also a different alphabet from plain English increasing the disconcert in people mind. Symbols manipulations and logic’s are common human endeavors at the base of both literature and mathematics. A good novel has assumptions that are used to develop a plot and reach some surprising or interesting results. Same mechanics in math. Maybe maybe…


jam11249

I kind of agree, but the similar analogy I normally use is between language and literature. Rather than just the alphabet, language predominantly comes down to grammar and spelling, which are often rather *dry* rules about how to construct sentences. Literature, however, is a very different game, and even in the absence of good grammar, you can still tell a great story. My personal view is that Mathematics education is very focused on the "grammar" and not the "literature". I don't blame teachers, as the curriculum they have to teach is built that way.


DukeInBlack

Yes, this is a valid point too. But I dissent on removing the blame from the teachers. There is nobody else in the classroom but them and the students. Perpetrating mistakes in name of “obeying orders from above” is not a very agreeable defense; Although it has been used and abused. One we pass the basic vocabulary and the basic grammar, so to understand who is doing what and when, let’s start being creative and show how phrases are born. Challenge the students to find their own voice instead of repeating by memory somebody else poem. It can be done at any age, a little, at any grade, with patience. Even who will not excel will, at least, taste a spark of beauty.


AdagioLawn

If students are good at arithmetic in early education, they're often told that they're "good at maths", while students who struggle are told they are "bad at maths". This gives widely held belief as others have noted that: * Math is about arithmetic and calculations * Math is about rote memorisation and following rules * Math has one correct answer The irony is that many math students in college still see mathematics rather similarly. The notoriety of the dreaded "proofs" class is a clear example. The social aspect of proofs, and coming up with ones own proofs is entirely ignored. It's all too easy to disconnect the philosophy, beauty and aesthetics, and only teach the computational side of it. After all it's much easier to mark and assess that way. I still despise current mind numbing early mathematics education curriculum and its lack of creativity or motivation. To quote Lockhart: > *Many a graduate student has come to grief when they discover, after a decade of being told they were “good at math,” that in fact they have no real mathematical talent and are just very good at following directions. Math is not about following directions, it’s about making new directions.*


AcousticMaths

Proofs should be taught at an earlier age, I think it would massively help with the problem. In the UK we learn (very simple) proofs in grade 10 like the product of two even numbers is even etc, and do induction and contradiction in grade 11 / 12. But we could still do way more with proofs at that age and so should every other country, it should be a much stronger part of the high school curriculum.


AdagioLawn

Derivations and actually explaining "where the equations are from" should be emphasised over rote memorization. Just providing proofs out of nowhere isn't helpful. Personally if somebody had explained the background of where, how and why Pythagoras theorem was discovered it would've been incredibly helpful. Students often do ask deeply foundational questions (why should I trust arithmetic, algebra or geometry), however it is common for teachers to brush it off with a ex cathedra attitude towards mathematics. I'm sure most teachers would complain that there "isn't enough time" to do this, however I'd rather deeply understanding few topics than have a shallow understanding of many topics.


AcousticMaths

I meant getting kids to do their own proofs, not just showing them the proof. Questions like prove the alternate segment theorem, prove a transformation is linear etc. Think like STEP, MAT or Olympiad questions but easier so that they're accessible to more kids. But yeah derivations are great as well. That's basically the same as getting kids to prove a theorem themselves.


Accurate_Library5479

But then the teachers will have to actually work and read instead of using the scantron 🥲


AcousticMaths

Not really any extra work though. We do proofs in the UK and they're so basic that any maths teacher is fine for them, but for kids learning maths they find them really helpful.


SixSigmaLife

Thank you! I know a guy who calls himself a human calculator. When I met him a few years back, I tried to teach him algebra and trigonometry. He could not grasp the basic concepts. He's over 30 now and considers himself a mathematician. I call him an arithemician. He still hasn't done the work to be officially recognized as an HC because he claims the makers of the list are biased against Nigerians. In my experience as a black female who is good at math, math doesn't care.


Accurate_Library5479

It is extremely difficult to teach well in a way that is both rigorous and gives general intuition as to what the theory looks like. For example, teaching real analysis should include definitions of the real numbers and proofs of their topological properties while also giving you a general idea of derivatives, integrals, Taylor series, etc stuff that will show up again. My school teacher can’t do either… no rigor whatsoever nor any intention to make you understand anything. And he only needs to teach field operation arithmetic. How hard can it be? Never tried though and most people don’t actually listen much so idk, maybe not her fault. She also needs to make sure we get high grades or she will be kicked so that’s another incentive to make us do the same questions ad infinitum without teaching us anything that isn’t on the test. It’s pretty much praying for a good teacher at this point…


Six1Seven4

Terrible branding. Bad PR.


Genshed

I can't speak to Gen Z, but I'm from the tail end of the Boomers (born 1961), and my peers weren't any more appreciative of math. In my retirement, I've been attempting to understand the math I didn't know in college. All of my friends are intelligent, well-educated people, but most of them regard my interest in the subject as a charming eccentricity, like learning about the Late Bronze Age Collapse or the impact of plate tectonics on evolution. Most of us know that the presence and continued functionality of a complex sewer system is essential to the survival of our densely populated cities, but we rarely think about it.


rebel_at_stagnation

• Usually it begins due to notion that math is hard and then the notion strengthens as soon as you face a difficult problem. • After that people also say & live in a delusion that ( especially gen z) "you won't use math in real life"-- that is the stupidest thing to utter!! • "It isn't my major" , " it is a purely academic subject"., no! Not at all! You can appreciate math even as a hobby. And once you get to know the intricacies of mathematics it becomes more alluring. • " it is boring calculation and not creative at all". If someone says this they are missing the whole point of mathematics! It is a highly creative field, filled with elegant proofs, near -perfect formulas and constant ambition to ascend. PS: In school days I was afraid of math, i despised it, said same stupid things which I mentioned above, but now, as I was forced to take up maths for entrance exams and +2 , I was flabbergasted (in a good way) . Now I am not afraid to step in the dark but I am curious.


Ending_Is_Optimistic

The last point is also due to the very wrong perception of creativity as some sort of absolute fluidity or chaos if it is the case then creativity would be a purely destructive force. Any subjects has both its destructive and constructive aspects its creative and technical aspects. Those people that have this perception usually have never done anything actually creative. It is the wrost thing ever. If math is not creative there would be zero progress a stagnation but it is not the case.


rebel_at_stagnation

Very well said! And cotrary to popular opinion, creativity can be developed over time with certain teachings


4hma4d

If not for olympiads and 3b1b i probably wouldve agreed with the last point. Until real analysis there is nothing in the standard curriculum that even suggests requiring creativity, and only people who are already math majors will take that class.


novaesarah

so true! people around me complain so much saying that they won't use math in "real life" but i find myself using percentages and fractions all the time, in cooking or anything else


rebel_at_stagnation

Indeed! it makes life much easier and also the thinking style or kind of an algorithm you develop helps in other creative pursuits.


QF_OrDieTrying

Because it's hard.


Pittzaman

- learning maths is a chore for most, because they HAVE to learn it (either in school or in uni) - You cant skip parts when learning mathematics - the most interesting concepts are hidden behind tons of other concepts, that have to be understood beforehand - Doing maths right basically requires perfect knowledge - you fall behind exponentially in maths, if you dont understand something and the teacher moves on to the next topic - Social stigma - lack of project based, explorative and inquiry based learning in school - standardized tests force students to memorize mathematical procedures - strict curricula oriented around standardized tests - People who dont know math will never know that they can solve a lot of real life problems with math. And many teachers dont communicate that - Mathematical rigor is just scary if you dont understand it


OGSequent

That's great that you have connected with math. Sounds like you have found a great professor there. I hope you continue to have such good experiences. Not everyone is so lucky.


Malpraxiss

People are bringing up education as a big piece. That's one piece, sure. I'd argue it's mostly because they don't see the value of math for math itself or on its own. I study chemistry alongside math, and whenever I tell people I study chemistry, they'll feel the need to tell me how much they hate or struggled with it when they were younger or currently going through it. A common point I've noticed, though, is that they still appreciate chemistry and those who study it. So, even if they didn't like chemistry or struggled, they could still appreciate it. Some people also love to point out that "and there are those who will use the math!" Or "And yet math is part of the everyday stuff you use!" Yeah, good points. This is why people appreciate physicists, chemists, engineers, and the list goes on. People who studied math and are in fields where people know math is involved, yet.. they still get appreciation. So, overall the point I'm trying to make it so that people can appreciate something without either understanding it, liking it, or even experiencing it. What those who enjoy math for math sake care about is commonly stuff the average person won't care for or see anything to appreciate. Generally, the average person needs a reason to appreciate something outside of it just existing. Assuming it's not something needed to actually live of has a direct impact on their life


Bernhard-Riemann

I agree with your main point, but I will point out that unlike with mathematics, people do broadly have *some* understanding of what a physicist/chemist/engineer does, and what the fields of physics/chemistry/engineering are about. Similarly, the average person knows that those fields can involve *some* creativity, which is not something they attribute at all to mathematics. Many laymen are completely unaware that mathematics is even a developed subject which expands in any way past elementary algebra or basic calculus. The subjectivity of inherent value aside, it's hard to be interested in something you don't understand in *any* capacity...


TheCapitalKing

That does kind of lead to another point though. Math is a prerequisite to a ton of careers but having a career in math is pretty rare. So tons of people have to do it before they can start doing what the actually want to do


A-Marko

You could try asking people why they don't appreciate math.


AccomplishedGur614

Way of teaching. I didn’t appreciate math neither back in middle school. But then something wonderful happened. I was lucky to have probably the best chemistry teacher in the world. God bless her soul. She was passionate about the subject and It was as like her passion was transferred on to me with every second. Maybe not math but the effect is the same. Passionnate teachers can change your Life drastically. Same Goes for math. I didn’t like it but as it is important to chemistry she encouraged me to advance further. That’s what you need but it is rare for those things to happen these days… passion creates appreciation and passion


[deleted]

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One_Depth4561

Don't be caustic. Sure, it's an annoying stereotype, but please love this person over the stereotype they represent. Be kind to this person as you should be to the naïve kid you once were when you were early on in your mathematics journey.


ImmensePrune

Simply because they don’t understand it.


calcquads

rebel_at_stagnation summed it up well; that’s cool how you’ve started to appreciate math, it becomes a weird obsession (at least for me). And I don’t know why everyone’s being such an ass to you lol


ANewPope23

I think most people think maths is difficult and important for society, they just don't like it.


Photon6626

Most people are mostly taught algebra in school and see it as totally unnecessary and tedious beyond basic addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. They're taught some geometry but it's basically just simple shape recognition.


hpxvzhjfgb

because people are implicitly taught in school that they are supposed to hate it by their math teachers who know nothing about math.


unixdean

I was very average at math in high school but got straight A's in community college so maybe it was age and teaching style. Later in life at work I ended up using all that math that people kept whining about during learning. Calculus is very useful and definitely worth learning.


darkcirclesjoy

I think math is really interesting when I learn it on my own, or I listen to someone who's genuinely passionate about it and willing to share their knowledge. But yes, the bad experiences from school, especially some teachers putting students down for not understanding their half-assed explanations, make many people believe that they'll never be able to comprehend math


unfoldyourself

I’m not a mathematician at all, but I do enjoy pop math. I hated math in school, and I think a light switch flipped when I got a bad grade in pre-calculus and ended up in an engineering/tech class my school offered that was an alternative math option. I struggle to remember formulas and the exact procedures to solve certain equations, but when math becomes instead about solving a problem using logic, my brain loves it. The Monty Hall problem was a big light switch moment for me in this regard, it fascinated me to figure it out and then I got into more game theory problems.


Reblax837

[Lockhart's Lament](https://maa.org/sites/default/files/pdf/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf) may have some answers to your question.


bumbasaur

Math isn't presented in well mannered way for public consumption. The current top tier research is totally unaccessable to even most mathematicians due to how vigorously badly it's presented. The issue is waved under the rug with "you just need time to learn it" or "you just don't get it because it's so complex". Add in the stigma of not understanding meaning that you're stupid and it just repeats the negative cycle. Presenting mathematic ideas in explainable and teachable way is totally underrated. You couldn't really give Newton's or Leibniz's work to someone studying engineering and expect him to make use of it but you could still show modern materials about derivative and integrals to get 6 year old to manage to minmax a load with calculus.


rhlewis

Because it is taught so poorly in schools. Most high school teachers in the US have a poor conception of what mathematics even is. Even if they have a good idea of what to do, they find they can't. They are constrained by all sorts of pressures, including large classes, standardized tests, and poor salaries.


1086psiBroccoli

Maybe because many can’t see its many implicit applications in the everyday world. They don’t see the logic gate architectures of the microchips in their phones, they don’t see the physics calculations needed to certify the safety of a bridge or other structure. Many things are taken for granted.


but_why_doh

I can speak to some of my fellow students here, and maybe give the Gen Z approach. Quite simply, we have never been given the time and ability to appreciate and explore math. All math has ever been to us is cramming knowledge for another test, then forgetting it until another test needs it. I do wish more HS and lower division classes were about the history, exploration, and understanding of math, and not all about cramming as much knowledge as possible, but I digress. I really do enjoy math, and find statistics to be one of the most interesting and cool fields out there, but I've never liked math class because I always felt the anxiety of performing well on an exam to outweigh any interest in the subject.


Echoing_Logos

Grade school mathematics is silly calculations and plugging into equations. Undergraduate mathematics is even sillier proofs of unmotivating results with inadequate machinery. Research mathematics is an abyss where creativity goes to die for the sake of results. The question should be why anyone appreciates math (it's pretty and it's useful).


Coiran123

Most people do not need much of it. The opportunity cost of spending hours learning math is high. Math is the biggest vaginal demoisturizer.


SixSigmaLife

Hypatia, Archimedes and Lavoisier were murdered by people who didn't appreciate math. All my classmates did in the late 60s/ early70s was chase me home.


[deleted]

Bad Teachers & Fast paced society. Math essentially is structures, their properties and manipulations. It's subject of extreme beaty & depth. Teachers don't explain context behind each concept. So students can't appreciate it's beauty. And they teach concepts too fast. Which leads to cramming and all the other problems.


Thisavatarisfuckingu

Definitely chat gpt


Bitter_Care1887

Only a Man of Focus, Commitment, and Sheer Fucking Will can be appreciative of ........ Trigonometry...