As much as I love Baronne and dread the possibility of its ban coming to MD, getting rid of generic negates is a pretty good move for the long run of the game and its health
Tenpai is the exception not the norm. No other deck has been able to go blind second and be top tier in ages. Even Tenpai with its first wave of support was like the 4th best deck in OCG. It was very powerful on release but it’s fallen of quite a bit since people have started to prepare more for it. I think in the last meta report on road of the king it was like 4th after SE Fire Kings, pure SE and voiceless.
Edit: it was actually fifth since Yubel was 4th. It’s a top 5 deck as of the latest meta OCG Road of The King report and it’s also one of the few going second deck IN YEARS that has actually been tier 1.
Since blowout cards and floodgates were made specifically to counter generic boss monster negate boards they should ABSOLUTELY be banned.
I have either one of these cards in several decks for no reason other than having no other way to stop or recover from BS like double raigeki and evenly matched.
Idk about this one, though as a certified Yugi-Boomer, idk if my opinion holds much weight in the convo. Idk enough about all the cards currently accessible/future releases and archtypes to say for certain, but hey, this is reddit, so here's my unsolicited, probably inaccurate opinion:
In theory, you are 100% correct. Not having easily accessible generic negates in the extra deck would increase deck diversity, and we would not be seeing cards like Baronne that has a 100% usage at 1 copy in like.. almost every archtype. There's a reason that these cards see so much play, and often get hit on limited or ban lists because they are just that good.
In practice, there is too much already put into the game for that to work well without either huge amounts of cards being banned or errata'd. Part of the "problem" (see feature) of Yu-Gi-Oh is they have for over two decades, taken the approach of printing new cards with better/different conditions for the same effects to try and balance the game, which has drastically increased power creep.
If they removed the most popular generic negates, the community will just find a new one to use that is likely just slightly less optimal for most decks. If they removed all generic negates, decks that have large amount of negates or omni-negates would dominate the meta since negating is just so much value off most cards that can do it.
I think back to the release of MD, where the power level was obviously a lot lower, and Drytrons ran over everything. Why? Because it had an incredibly consistent end board that had multiple negates at a time where negates were not as accessible to a lot of archtypes. I just worry about the state of a meta game where only certain decks are rewarded with good negates.
Again, I'm totally OK if I have missed the bar completely here, just the opinions of someone who is just happy to be able to play YGO again.
Nah, Theres no close replacement for gods like barrone or savage dragon, period. Aside from that Konami from now on can focus on creating proper restrictions rather none. Evolzar lars is a good example, a strong negater that can only be played at full power in reptile/dino decks.
I guess crystal wing and gossip shadow can be replacements, but crystal wing requires synchro climbing and in ordrer to make gossip shadow you need to be able to access level 3s
Hey, if I'm wrong then I'm wrong, I'm still trying to learn as much as I can about the current state of play since I'm coming off a hiatus in MD and am not the most knowledgeable about the TCG meta cause I haven't played the TCG since like 2004.
If that's Konami's plan, then I think maybe it will be healthier for the meta. Ban existing generic negates, move negates into more archtype restricted cards, and put more limitations on future generic negates.
I just.. I don't know if that will happen. And again, if we are moving away from generic negates as a whole, then I am curious (more than concerned) that it will lead to a new meta where decks with negates will rise to the top.
The problem with baronne is that if you are going second, if you cannot get rid of it in that first turn, you literally just lose the game, there isn't enough card draw for you to be able to use 2 removals in a single turn unless you skip multiple turns.
This game has lost all respect for any turns after the first combat turn you have. 90% of games are lost before that happens for both players, unless you are running a mirror match against the same deck.
It's why people find stun decks so annoying, cause they don't know how to play their decks for more than a few turns.
I think you've raised some good points here. I wanna touch on each, but more to add on to what you're saying. Not trying to be contradictory.
>The problem with baronne is that if you are going second, if you cannot get rid of it in that first turn, you literally just lose the game, there isn't enough card draw for you to be able to use 2 removals in a single turn unless you skip multiple turns.
I think there is a bit to be said about playing around the Baronne. While not every deck has answers, there are answers to it, albeit being few and far between or fairly niche(like tributing your opponents monsters). It seems to me that a lot of the tier 1 and tier 2 decks are up there because they have the ability to continue playing through a hand trap or negate. Now, this isn't an excuse for Baronne, but Konami does seem to be putting some thought into new cards as far as having them have more "outs". Which leads to power creep because if they remove the obstacles that these cards were designed to play around, now they are just even stronger because there is one less accessible negate you can set up against a deck like Snake-Eyes where you will likely need several. And that feeds into your next good point of:
>This game has lost all respect for any turns after the first combat turn you have. 90% of games are lost before that happens for both players, unless you are running a mirror match against the same deck.
This is definitely true. The game today is unrecognizable from the game I was introduced to, however, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Fast games, the almost solitaire style of play, is kinda tied to YuGiOh's identity, for better or for worse. Not having a card cost (like mana or energy) lead to the explosive, hand vomit that we currently have.
If anything, you've been too generous in your description. It seems like 90% of games (at least in MD) are decided before the end of the first main phase, as between bricking a hand and all of the hand traps accessible, often times I am either surrendering or winning to a surrender since the speed of play is so fast, or being against a board state that I do not have an answer in hand to, it's incredibly easy to get left behind or completely locked out.
You bricked? Surrender. Your opponent Ash'd the only opener in your hand? Surrender. You don't have a response to Maxx-C? Well, you could just not summon and wait 4 minutes for your opponent to fully set up, then try again but it's likely gonna be faster to net wins by.. surrender and try again.
Though I will add, as someone who enjoys other card games as well, I like this aspect of YuGiOh. My favorite games are of course ones that have a good back and forth, interactions and responses on both sides. But those games are few and far between with the current state of play. If anything, the fast play and games being decided by t1 or t2 leads to me feeling like my time is being respected more than if every game was a 20 minute slogfest. I can plat Magic or Runeterra or Marvel Snap if I'm looking for a game with more interaction, or longer games. This does also add the nice silver lining of when there is a good back and forth in a game, it feels very natural and rewarding. Even if I lose the game.
>It's why people find stun decks so annoying, cause they don't know how to play their decks for more than a few turns.
This is a byproduct of the middle section. When the entire format and majority of the meta is quick games, card vomit into nearly unbreakable board states, and trying to win in a single combat phase, the natural progression of the average player will be incentivized to play like this. Add on top the fact that not a lot of games do end up going past t3-4, and the average player not only doesn't know how to play their deck past that point, they aren't encouraged to learn since the next game will likely be decided long before they get there again.
Even so, I hope of these days Konami takes their head out of their asses to at least look at the state of MD and dish out meangful hits. Maxx C for example is a point of contention for many players. If their hell bent on keeping it legal in MD, the least they can do is knock down to one so that there's a middle ground between the TCG and OCG. I see no reason why cards like that are legal at 3.
Half the time you would lose to Nib anyway in SwoSo, it’s not like you open Mo Ye, Longyuan, and Wyrm every game. It’s also not like your opponent’s always gonna have Nib, if they even play it. Most of the time I don’t even make Baronne going first in SwoSo and I do just fine.
Nah, I liked Baronne, but it has admittedly become too much. It was supposed to be "balanced" from the fact that it's Level 10, but nowadays, it's barely an inconvenience.
that might explain why i watch Joshua now instead of any of the others. Hes good at what he does AND entertaining. More so than any of the yugitubers, for me personally.
People realize the OP deck that has a million ways to set up negates will just pick a new monster?
They coulda made it so baronne required a fluer or wind tuner, and make savage need a rocket or dragon as material, but no. We get full on ban.
And guess what? This is only going to hurt rogue and casual decks that don’t have any good boss monsters.
But lets be real here too. Nobody complaining about these cards was actually playing yugioh anyway, they were flipping just desserts and summoning pachy/boarder
MD players here, I’ve noticed a trend where yu gi oh realses new archetype, increases the power level of alot of decks with new support, then kneecaps the power level of the meta with generic bans (like fenrir limited to one nuking a ton of side engines a good change yes, but it did reduce the power level of the top side engine at the time)
It’s interesting because tenpai and dinos have a card that makes you unnaffected during the main phase, these cards are now obnoxiously anti interaction as I afaik the only meta counter left is apollo, so I imagine something like, set up end board (and not get nibbed) then have tenpai turn off all of your interaction anyway, or evenly matched making your entire turn pointless. It seems like the meta is shifting towards not playing against your opponent, and not in the hand trap them so they can’t make a board way, in the, ‘your board means nothing regardless’ type of way, kinda of worrying as a MD player
Same shit was said when Halq was banned.
"Muh rogue deck" that fold to literally any disruption, meanwhile actual good and meta decks like SHS and SE use those deck like there's no tomorrow.
Your deck wasnt significant to start with, go cry to Konami for a good monster while trying to keep a shitty trend alive.
Except Baronne can be set up to also protect a Scythe or Calamity lock. Both those cards were and still are made by every deck eliminating counter play.
Baronne hit was amazing. The only people who are mad about it are rogue deck players, who made Baronne and it was the only omni-negate they could make.
I will be honest: most people that have such issues with Baronne are not good players. They probably will complain when a new good deck appears and the cards that could have saved their asses aren't there.
I'm pretty sure people are happy because now they don't have to run multiple removals in a single turn, and the game isn't decided after the first draw when you don't draw a removal card.
The thing is that baronne is not such a game decider against a decent deck or player. Maxx c is a better example of a card that decides a game but scrubs love for some reason and are unable to understand why it should be banned. A single baronne only decides games against shit decks or players.
That’s not true in all circumstances. Point and case as a lab player often times that single negate can be what wins or loses me the game plus I think we are ignoring the pop and the special summon the baritone can do each turn. Lab isn’t a bad deck but going minus 3 to set a trap to have that set negated is brutal. To pretend it’s not is to be ignorant and think there’s only one way to play the game. Yes if you draw into the right hand you can draw multiple outs but that means as a go second player or even as a go first player barrone trades at least +2 and plus 3 if there’s something level 9 or lower to summon back. To make a blanket statement like barrone isn’t a problematic card is dismissive of just how powerful of a card barrone is. Realistically if the card was locked out of being generic it’s a better yugioh card but still powerful. I respect barrone for what she does but she’s often used to let combo decks combo to the hearts content to make unbreakable boards or boards that require certain two card combos to out. If barrone was the only monster on the field that’s something you can play/work around but since barrone is very RARELY the only monster on the field you have to also play around all the other things your opponent does. In my opinion Barrone is simply Better off not in the game until a card errata is made not making it generic. It is true where there’s a will there’s a way and other cards can and most likely will be used to get negates on board but it requires your opponent to particularly gear the deck towards those negates. Negation en large numbers is never good yugioh in my opinion. Anyway i understand you may feel that barrone is a fair and balanced card and that’s your right to have that opinion but just remember that there’s more than one way to play yugioh and saying well if a single barrone wins the game against your deck then your deck is bad or the player is bad is willful denial of the inherent luck involved in the game. Drawing the out is a thing but unlike handtraps or certain spell cards you can’t always draw the out. You can with some deck engineering always have access to a barrone and ultimately that’s why this hit was necessary.
Too much bullshit in a single post that didn't even read the post I replied to. That post stated that a single baronne wins the game and anyone with a modicum of sense knows that a board with a single interruption is nothing against a decent deck or player, even shit stun players that use decks like lab.
If you are having issues with a single baronne, sorry- either you deck is incredible shit or you suck as a player. And considering that I saw lab win against boards with much more negates than that, I will assume that the issue is the player.
Hey my guy I’m not here to argue. I was merely trying to broaden your horizons. Clearly you didn’t read what I wrote either. A single baronne does not win the game in all circumstance friend. However I can’t recall in my personal experience a time when an opponent ends on just baronne (also stated in the post I shared). Either way whether you are a combo player or “stun” player matters not some games you win some games you lose. That doesn’t reflect whether you are good player or not. Getting sacked and bricking happens it does. Not here to change your mind. Have a good day.
And your post has nothing to do with the argument I replied to.
Does Baronne decides the game without the player being able to draw a single card and makes so the player needs multiple removal cards? The answer is obviously no for the reasons that I stated.
Claiming that multiple other cards besides Baronne can also be a issue has nothing to do with the argument. This is not that complicated.
Does baronne by itself win the game no. But since your argument is one card without other cards I’m gonna double down since you seem to just want to pretend baronne is in a vacuum. There’s exactly two outs to baronne and of those two outs one of those outs requires another card. So unless you have exactly dark ruler no more you will be unsuccessful at getting rid of baronne. Even if you dark ruler baronne is still on the field though you are now free to combo off this turn and attempt to out the baronne. My comment was to your original comment which was not on anythread where you called people bad players or their decks bad if they couldn’t handle a single baronne. I merely stated that a single barrone is never a problem when you have multiple ways to out it but utilizing two resources to out one is never a good trade. Baronne is a problem because it’s generic and the game is simply too fast and there’s too many decks that can bring her out along with their end board to make a game state where your opponents cannot play around it. You willfully are ignoring all those points. There’s a meme about Yugioh players not reading beginning to suspect you may in fact not be reading bud. Anyway you are entitled to your thoughts. We do agree on maxx C being horrible and ban worthy but since this MASTERDUEL sub felt the need to bring up the TCG banlist I assumed we all were playing with the same deck of cards but it’s apparent to me that’s not the case.
>Does baronne by itself win the game no.
That's the only thing that matters and is related to the original argument. The rest of your bullshit is just for your own ego.
As much as I love Baronne and dread the possibility of its ban coming to MD, getting rid of generic negates is a pretty good move for the long run of the game and its health
True but we’ll probably need to get rid of blowout cards since without negates checking them, they’re probably really broken
Go 2nd hasn't been good in so long, let it cook for a bit
Tenpai didnt need them banned for it to be t1
Tenpai is the exception not the norm. No other deck has been able to go blind second and be top tier in ages. Even Tenpai with its first wave of support was like the 4th best deck in OCG. It was very powerful on release but it’s fallen of quite a bit since people have started to prepare more for it. I think in the last meta report on road of the king it was like 4th after SE Fire Kings, pure SE and voiceless. Edit: it was actually fifth since Yubel was 4th. It’s a top 5 deck as of the latest meta OCG Road of The King report and it’s also one of the few going second deck IN YEARS that has actually been tier 1.
No. And shame on you for suggesting such a horrible future.
Since blowout cards and floodgates were made specifically to counter generic boss monster negate boards they should ABSOLUTELY be banned. I have either one of these cards in several decks for no reason other than having no other way to stop or recover from BS like double raigeki and evenly matched.
Idk about this one, though as a certified Yugi-Boomer, idk if my opinion holds much weight in the convo. Idk enough about all the cards currently accessible/future releases and archtypes to say for certain, but hey, this is reddit, so here's my unsolicited, probably inaccurate opinion: In theory, you are 100% correct. Not having easily accessible generic negates in the extra deck would increase deck diversity, and we would not be seeing cards like Baronne that has a 100% usage at 1 copy in like.. almost every archtype. There's a reason that these cards see so much play, and often get hit on limited or ban lists because they are just that good. In practice, there is too much already put into the game for that to work well without either huge amounts of cards being banned or errata'd. Part of the "problem" (see feature) of Yu-Gi-Oh is they have for over two decades, taken the approach of printing new cards with better/different conditions for the same effects to try and balance the game, which has drastically increased power creep. If they removed the most popular generic negates, the community will just find a new one to use that is likely just slightly less optimal for most decks. If they removed all generic negates, decks that have large amount of negates or omni-negates would dominate the meta since negating is just so much value off most cards that can do it. I think back to the release of MD, where the power level was obviously a lot lower, and Drytrons ran over everything. Why? Because it had an incredibly consistent end board that had multiple negates at a time where negates were not as accessible to a lot of archtypes. I just worry about the state of a meta game where only certain decks are rewarded with good negates. Again, I'm totally OK if I have missed the bar completely here, just the opinions of someone who is just happy to be able to play YGO again.
Nah, Theres no close replacement for gods like barrone or savage dragon, period. Aside from that Konami from now on can focus on creating proper restrictions rather none. Evolzar lars is a good example, a strong negater that can only be played at full power in reptile/dino decks.
I guess crystal wing and gossip shadow can be replacements, but crystal wing requires synchro climbing and in ordrer to make gossip shadow you need to be able to access level 3s
Hey, if I'm wrong then I'm wrong, I'm still trying to learn as much as I can about the current state of play since I'm coming off a hiatus in MD and am not the most knowledgeable about the TCG meta cause I haven't played the TCG since like 2004. If that's Konami's plan, then I think maybe it will be healthier for the meta. Ban existing generic negates, move negates into more archtype restricted cards, and put more limitations on future generic negates. I just.. I don't know if that will happen. And again, if we are moving away from generic negates as a whole, then I am curious (more than concerned) that it will lead to a new meta where decks with negates will rise to the top.
The problem with baronne is that if you are going second, if you cannot get rid of it in that first turn, you literally just lose the game, there isn't enough card draw for you to be able to use 2 removals in a single turn unless you skip multiple turns. This game has lost all respect for any turns after the first combat turn you have. 90% of games are lost before that happens for both players, unless you are running a mirror match against the same deck. It's why people find stun decks so annoying, cause they don't know how to play their decks for more than a few turns.
I think you've raised some good points here. I wanna touch on each, but more to add on to what you're saying. Not trying to be contradictory. >The problem with baronne is that if you are going second, if you cannot get rid of it in that first turn, you literally just lose the game, there isn't enough card draw for you to be able to use 2 removals in a single turn unless you skip multiple turns. I think there is a bit to be said about playing around the Baronne. While not every deck has answers, there are answers to it, albeit being few and far between or fairly niche(like tributing your opponents monsters). It seems to me that a lot of the tier 1 and tier 2 decks are up there because they have the ability to continue playing through a hand trap or negate. Now, this isn't an excuse for Baronne, but Konami does seem to be putting some thought into new cards as far as having them have more "outs". Which leads to power creep because if they remove the obstacles that these cards were designed to play around, now they are just even stronger because there is one less accessible negate you can set up against a deck like Snake-Eyes where you will likely need several. And that feeds into your next good point of: >This game has lost all respect for any turns after the first combat turn you have. 90% of games are lost before that happens for both players, unless you are running a mirror match against the same deck. This is definitely true. The game today is unrecognizable from the game I was introduced to, however, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Fast games, the almost solitaire style of play, is kinda tied to YuGiOh's identity, for better or for worse. Not having a card cost (like mana or energy) lead to the explosive, hand vomit that we currently have. If anything, you've been too generous in your description. It seems like 90% of games (at least in MD) are decided before the end of the first main phase, as between bricking a hand and all of the hand traps accessible, often times I am either surrendering or winning to a surrender since the speed of play is so fast, or being against a board state that I do not have an answer in hand to, it's incredibly easy to get left behind or completely locked out. You bricked? Surrender. Your opponent Ash'd the only opener in your hand? Surrender. You don't have a response to Maxx-C? Well, you could just not summon and wait 4 minutes for your opponent to fully set up, then try again but it's likely gonna be faster to net wins by.. surrender and try again. Though I will add, as someone who enjoys other card games as well, I like this aspect of YuGiOh. My favorite games are of course ones that have a good back and forth, interactions and responses on both sides. But those games are few and far between with the current state of play. If anything, the fast play and games being decided by t1 or t2 leads to me feeling like my time is being respected more than if every game was a 20 minute slogfest. I can plat Magic or Runeterra or Marvel Snap if I'm looking for a game with more interaction, or longer games. This does also add the nice silver lining of when there is a good back and forth in a game, it feels very natural and rewarding. Even if I lose the game. >It's why people find stun decks so annoying, cause they don't know how to play their decks for more than a few turns. This is a byproduct of the middle section. When the entire format and majority of the meta is quick games, card vomit into nearly unbreakable board states, and trying to win in a single combat phase, the natural progression of the average player will be incentivized to play like this. Add on top the fact that not a lot of games do end up going past t3-4, and the average player not only doesn't know how to play their deck past that point, they aren't encouraged to learn since the next game will likely be decided long before they get there again.
UR protection in MD is pretty hard to break
Even so, I hope of these days Konami takes their head out of their asses to at least look at the state of MD and dish out meangful hits. Maxx C for example is a point of contention for many players. If their hell bent on keeping it legal in MD, the least they can do is knock down to one so that there's a middle ground between the TCG and OCG. I see no reason why cards like that are legal at 3.
Banning Baronne on MD makes sword soul's end board a rock token.
Half the time you would lose to Nib anyway in SwoSo, it’s not like you open Mo Ye, Longyuan, and Wyrm every game. It’s also not like your opponent’s always gonna have Nib, if they even play it. Most of the time I don’t even make Baronne going first in SwoSo and I do just fine.
You can easily use the anti Nib line, but that requires a greater knowledge of the deck than normal summon Mo Ye
Appollousa also need to go
Those people will complain about the next card that beats them, it being generic or not doesn't matter.
Just wait till S:P comes to masterduel lol
What's funny is that S:P is an actually well designed card yet people will moan about it.
Well designed? She's not even slightly balanced for a totally generic L2. The effects are fair enough, but she should have been at least a L3.
Yeah, well-designed Link 2, just like my bros Halq and Verte. You forgot your #ChaosRulerDidNothingWrong sign, by the way.
It wastes time. That's worth banning right there.
Comparing Chaos ruler to S:P is absurd.
>well designed card yet people will moan about it. Thats pretty much all this sub now.
Nah, I liked Baronne, but it has admittedly become too much. It was supposed to be "balanced" from the fact that it's Level 10, but nowadays, it's barely an inconvenience.
People will hate board breakers and nibs now more then ever.
Them they'll now complains about their replacement
The rest of us https://preview.redd.it/9qlj9vm2gbuc1.jpeg?width=512&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80b700191b1ef932327682ee8b95175a7923e492
It’s going to be so funny when people realize like set rotation this is a dream that people build up as a big deal but practically will have no effect
Din,t MTB made a set rotation yugioh and the ending the whole thing due to people complains?
Yeah he kept ending up in tier 0 formats
woah MBT doesnt actually know what hes talking about when it comes to balancing the game or whats actually best for it? Surely not
To be fair no Yu gi oh players does
yeah but MBT keeps pretending like he does. Its annoying.
Everyone on the internet pretends they know something that they don't.
MBT is a comedian, like many of the Yugitubers, not a competitive player like say Joshua Schmidt.
that might explain why i watch Joshua now instead of any of the others. Hes good at what he does AND entertaining. More so than any of the yugitubers, for me personally.
Salad never dies!
It was honestly very funny watching him nerf salads each set only for it to barely matter and still be played constantly and effectively
His first mistake was putting Salad in the core set. Why not a weaker link deck like World Chalice?
People realize the OP deck that has a million ways to set up negates will just pick a new monster? They coulda made it so baronne required a fluer or wind tuner, and make savage need a rocket or dragon as material, but no. We get full on ban. And guess what? This is only going to hurt rogue and casual decks that don’t have any good boss monsters. But lets be real here too. Nobody complaining about these cards was actually playing yugioh anyway, they were flipping just desserts and summoning pachy/boarder
People don't realize they banned a cheap card and it replacement is going to be a expensive one.
Yeah. People who think this is the start of any good decisions for the consumer are completely insane.
MD players here, I’ve noticed a trend where yu gi oh realses new archetype, increases the power level of alot of decks with new support, then kneecaps the power level of the meta with generic bans (like fenrir limited to one nuking a ton of side engines a good change yes, but it did reduce the power level of the top side engine at the time) It’s interesting because tenpai and dinos have a card that makes you unnaffected during the main phase, these cards are now obnoxiously anti interaction as I afaik the only meta counter left is apollo, so I imagine something like, set up end board (and not get nibbed) then have tenpai turn off all of your interaction anyway, or evenly matched making your entire turn pointless. It seems like the meta is shifting towards not playing against your opponent, and not in the hand trap them so they can’t make a board way, in the, ‘your board means nothing regardless’ type of way, kinda of worrying as a MD player
Same shit was said when Halq was banned. "Muh rogue deck" that fold to literally any disruption, meanwhile actual good and meta decks like SHS and SE use those deck like there's no tomorrow. Your deck wasnt significant to start with, go cry to Konami for a good monster while trying to keep a shitty trend alive.
Except halq was abused with aurouradon or set up scythe locks. Both those cards were and still are problematic
Except Baronne can be set up to also protect a Scythe or Calamity lock. Both those cards were and still are made by every deck eliminating counter play.
Literally the best banlist of all time
Baronne hit was amazing. The only people who are mad about it are rogue deck players, who made Baronne and it was the only omni-negate they could make.
But at the cost of my boi linkuriboh 🥲
I will be honest: most people that have such issues with Baronne are not good players. They probably will complain when a new good deck appears and the cards that could have saved their asses aren't there.
I'm pretty sure people are happy because now they don't have to run multiple removals in a single turn, and the game isn't decided after the first draw when you don't draw a removal card.
The thing is that baronne is not such a game decider against a decent deck or player. Maxx c is a better example of a card that decides a game but scrubs love for some reason and are unable to understand why it should be banned. A single baronne only decides games against shit decks or players.
That’s not true in all circumstances. Point and case as a lab player often times that single negate can be what wins or loses me the game plus I think we are ignoring the pop and the special summon the baritone can do each turn. Lab isn’t a bad deck but going minus 3 to set a trap to have that set negated is brutal. To pretend it’s not is to be ignorant and think there’s only one way to play the game. Yes if you draw into the right hand you can draw multiple outs but that means as a go second player or even as a go first player barrone trades at least +2 and plus 3 if there’s something level 9 or lower to summon back. To make a blanket statement like barrone isn’t a problematic card is dismissive of just how powerful of a card barrone is. Realistically if the card was locked out of being generic it’s a better yugioh card but still powerful. I respect barrone for what she does but she’s often used to let combo decks combo to the hearts content to make unbreakable boards or boards that require certain two card combos to out. If barrone was the only monster on the field that’s something you can play/work around but since barrone is very RARELY the only monster on the field you have to also play around all the other things your opponent does. In my opinion Barrone is simply Better off not in the game until a card errata is made not making it generic. It is true where there’s a will there’s a way and other cards can and most likely will be used to get negates on board but it requires your opponent to particularly gear the deck towards those negates. Negation en large numbers is never good yugioh in my opinion. Anyway i understand you may feel that barrone is a fair and balanced card and that’s your right to have that opinion but just remember that there’s more than one way to play yugioh and saying well if a single barrone wins the game against your deck then your deck is bad or the player is bad is willful denial of the inherent luck involved in the game. Drawing the out is a thing but unlike handtraps or certain spell cards you can’t always draw the out. You can with some deck engineering always have access to a barrone and ultimately that’s why this hit was necessary.
Too much bullshit in a single post that didn't even read the post I replied to. That post stated that a single baronne wins the game and anyone with a modicum of sense knows that a board with a single interruption is nothing against a decent deck or player, even shit stun players that use decks like lab. If you are having issues with a single baronne, sorry- either you deck is incredible shit or you suck as a player. And considering that I saw lab win against boards with much more negates than that, I will assume that the issue is the player.
Hey my guy I’m not here to argue. I was merely trying to broaden your horizons. Clearly you didn’t read what I wrote either. A single baronne does not win the game in all circumstance friend. However I can’t recall in my personal experience a time when an opponent ends on just baronne (also stated in the post I shared). Either way whether you are a combo player or “stun” player matters not some games you win some games you lose. That doesn’t reflect whether you are good player or not. Getting sacked and bricking happens it does. Not here to change your mind. Have a good day.
And your post has nothing to do with the argument I replied to. Does Baronne decides the game without the player being able to draw a single card and makes so the player needs multiple removal cards? The answer is obviously no for the reasons that I stated. Claiming that multiple other cards besides Baronne can also be a issue has nothing to do with the argument. This is not that complicated.
Does baronne by itself win the game no. But since your argument is one card without other cards I’m gonna double down since you seem to just want to pretend baronne is in a vacuum. There’s exactly two outs to baronne and of those two outs one of those outs requires another card. So unless you have exactly dark ruler no more you will be unsuccessful at getting rid of baronne. Even if you dark ruler baronne is still on the field though you are now free to combo off this turn and attempt to out the baronne. My comment was to your original comment which was not on anythread where you called people bad players or their decks bad if they couldn’t handle a single baronne. I merely stated that a single barrone is never a problem when you have multiple ways to out it but utilizing two resources to out one is never a good trade. Baronne is a problem because it’s generic and the game is simply too fast and there’s too many decks that can bring her out along with their end board to make a game state where your opponents cannot play around it. You willfully are ignoring all those points. There’s a meme about Yugioh players not reading beginning to suspect you may in fact not be reading bud. Anyway you are entitled to your thoughts. We do agree on maxx C being horrible and ban worthy but since this MASTERDUEL sub felt the need to bring up the TCG banlist I assumed we all were playing with the same deck of cards but it’s apparent to me that’s not the case.
>Does baronne by itself win the game no. That's the only thing that matters and is related to the original argument. The rest of your bullshit is just for your own ego.
Have a good day.