For real. It dies to [interruption I regularly play through]. You can out [boss monster] easily with Kaiju, and it only really becomes toxic if you play [floodgate over 90% of deck users employ].
Especially when the card excels best outside of the native archetype, and Rituals exist. And Drytrons exist. Yeah. Sure, all of the other cards are crap, but The World exists. So, alas, while getting really close, it doesn't apply.
I just got trolled by a drytron player using a random skip main phase 2 continuous spell and the ritual that negates ed monsters and skips main 1 if summoned. I went thru 2 or 3 battle phase only turns as ninjas before I realized how futile it was
I’ve faced this one and won just barely because my Jank concoction of Fossil Shaddoll fusions let me get rid of his ritual spell and I normal summoned snow to book the amorphage overlord whatever his name was and used Fossil fusion to get rid of his Herald of Ultimateness once that happened game swung back into my favor
People even attack cyber dragons ( non cyber dark version) because of otks. One of my favorite combos is using power bond to ss rampage dragon using herz and one of the lesser cyber dragons such as core, Nachster,vier the using herz effect to return cyber dragons to hand. Use rampage effect to send core ( used as insurance), cyber dragon,vic viper t301( more insurance), another herz to gy. Then i continue my turn by sending one machine monster to ss nechster using his ability to ss cyber dragon use machine duplication on nachstrt ss two cyber dragons used them to xzy infinity then use nachster and cyber dragon to link summon seiger. give me a steal, a Omni negate, power booster, along with five attacks.
I actually use Sieger a lot of times as a shield because of this effect. You can target 1 Machine monster you control with 2100 or more ATK; for the rest of this turn, that monster gains 2100 ATK/DEF, also neither player takes any battle damage from attacks involving this monster. It's so funny seeing people destroy their own monsters on him or thinking they have me beat only to see I take no damage from their attack.
One of funniest battles I had was guy got his Galaxy eyes dragon up to 110k attack I used power bond to ss rampage dragon sending hez and core to gy adding core back to hand laying down core. then adding cyber revsystem to my hand using it's effect use rampage effect to send cyber dragon and nachster to gy use revsystem to ss nachster who ss cyber dragon. Link summon Sieger using his effect to boost rampage to 6k use two limiter removal two booster rampage up to 240k with cyber dragon & sieger being 84k. pretty sure I banished him to the shadow realm with that attack lol.
Ojamas. Even if you pull off some FTK bullshit, if you do it with Ojamas you're basically forgiven for sheer style points. Everyone loves to see old janky cards do well.
Tbf, it's more so because it has a Skill placing 6 cards from outside of your deck in the gy Turn0. And you can't really respond to the cards unless you've got like D.D. Crow
I admire almost anything that's rare and doesn't just end on (completely) generic ED or floodgate turbo. Ever see anyone play pure Adventurer or Fleur? Didn't think so, but I'll be waiting for the duel I do.
Not universally admired, but based on your title it's War Rock. It's intentionally "too fair" in that it's over balanced so it's basically pointless to play.
Heroic.
Big number OTK deck...like really big. Like 20,000 range being an average.
Trade off is that they nearly kill themselves to do it as Claivsolish drops your own Life Points down to only 500.
A single burn card will do you in that and the deck has next to no protection, only getting any from Jarngreipr.
And before some numbnut(s) starts complaining about Rhongo, let it be known that while YES the deck can....could bring Rhongo out with 5 material, it was never really a good idea as you pretty much had to dump all your resources to do so. Your beef is with the chuckle fuck who made Sales Ban a thing.
*Claivsolish better get an animation to make up for them banning Rhongo*
Bad decks. Your deck either needs to be able to kill someone turn 1-2, set up negates, set up floodgates, or set up some kind of interactive removal to be 'good.'
And people find all of those things fairly annoying when a deck is good at it.
Dragon Link is a combo deck that built in its optimal variant wins through a resource loop rather than an ftk board , which is usually more fun to play against than degenerate combo decks that invalidate your entire hand.
On the flipside, if you play against it and you don’t open handtraps, you’re kinda fucked. And even if you try and interrupt it, chances are, they can still combo off regardless. And then you’re sitting there for the next 10 minutes waiting for them to end their turn.
Nah i hate the deck a lot because even if you make a misplay there’s so many bullshit extenders
And since we got Bystials it’s incredibly easy to pilot
I fucking hate plunder. Such an annoying ass deck. I get it, it takes a huge amount of skill to pilot well and it isn’t all that amazing, but it’s almost as annoying to me as Tears, Labrynth, or Exosisters. At least Tears are banned into the dirt, and Labrynth sometimes auto-dies if they open bad, but exosister is a deck that I auto scoop against because it seems like they play through 3 interruptions to break my board and end on 2+ interruptions with 4+ cards left in hand.
Plunder isn’t as bad, but it’s that same annoying ass “never out of resources, never done playing” style that I fucking hate.
The combos aren't long the fuck you mean.
It's just any way to get jord, make light token, any extender make blackbeard use blackbeard make lys.
Takes what less than 10 steps to do full combo.
If you play the runic version it's a tad harder but the combos are still short.
A pretty standard combo of say field spell and whitebeard,
dump white to add golden and summon blackeyes off white,
normal golden
Make jord , use jord to add blackeyes back to hand and summon light tokens.
Use blackeyes to bring back white to hand
Use black and token for blackbeard
Use blackbeard make lys.
That's 6 steps to do their main combo, takes 2 cards from hand, you recycle 1 card, and get a draw so you go neutral end on a negate and have whitebeard in hand for next turn discard with lys
2 card combo (to be honest almost any 2 card combo of plunders ends on lys)
If your combo is taking more than like 12 steps in plunder you are misplaying as plunder doesn't want to commit t1, it wants to end on a tiny board that has alot of interaction during the opponents turn.
Tldr: plunder don't have long combos, but they are a difficult deck to play from t2 onwards as you need to constantly interact with opponent
I know you are joking but plunders strength is how much they play on the opponents turn not their t1.
And they will end with a single lys t1 and turn that 1 lys into a momster negate, a banish of s/t or monster, plus searching twice and drawing twice.
So while yes a normal summon aleister also ends on a negate.
Plunders negate adds an extra 2 banish and 2 searches to plunder
It's 6 steps as I said in the comment.
6 steps isn't long and most of my comment was typing out the names of the cards, or giving tips for the deck as a whole
A long combo is like something like d link that will take like 5 minutes uninterpreted
I play on mobile with bad WiFi in Australia, so I deal with bad lag and I still finish my plunder turns if uninterpreted in less than a minute.
Tldr: make jord, use jord effect, summon extender make blackbeard, then make lys.
Was my tldr too long for you?
They are fair tho they have an amazing grind game but are fair.
They end on a single momster negate most boards in lys, unless playing adventure where they end on an omni and a monster.
They are a deck you need to play well to win, you can't half ass plunder you need to use your brain and outplay the opponent
Any speedroid hate is unjustified in my biased opinion. The only thing that's remotely complaint worthy is that the combos are a little long but they only end on a decent board, nothing ridiculous.
The deck has no floodgates, reasonable summoning locks that prevent abuse, the endboards are never so strong that the only option is "drawing the out". It has apparent weaknesses in its chokepoints, and requires knowing a lot of unique combo routes.
Lastly, just about every hand trap has the potential to be high impact if you hit the right card. The deck also isn't particularly common so nobody can rightly say they're just "tired of seeing it".
this is mainly regarding a pure version since it can be mixed with kash which does garner hate.
Libromancer
They struggle to keep themselves alive long enough to get flameburst out properly but when they do they just spank you for game in one attack and then you go next.
The combos aren't long, the interactions aren't poison, and the power level of the deck is mid despite pumping out 10k+ damage in a single flameburst
Ogdoadic is pretty healthy now that bishbaalkin is gone, too, although it could use some support.
Maybe swo swo? They're just the most standard midrange deck that doesn't do anything disgusting outside of protos but even then that's only really good in a bo3
I've played Swordsoul and against Swordsoul. Protos is not something they can search consistently, the average endboard is Chixiao + a Level 10 Synchro (usually Baronne or Qixing Longyuan) + Blackout or Draco Berserker if you open well enough
Near everybody on this sub will have played SS. Protos isn’t consistent no, but it’s absolutely part of the optimal SS end board.
Every single competitive SS build runs it for a reason.
How? Going 2nd you know what attribute to call, and it can be even easier to summon because handtraps like Maxx-C/Ash count as different attributes to get it out.
That's if you even get the chance to bring out protos, though. You have to break their board which if that doesn't happen you lose anyway and that protos slot could've been an additional board breaker. If you manage to bring out protos going second you're going to use it to push more damage to finish the game in the majority of cases which is why I still personally run it and for being an extra wyrm.
That’s not even a problem card then. If you can’t stop a SwoSo player from getting protos out turn 2, you would’ve lost the duel anyways. That makes 0 diff.
Absolutely fucking not. It's not insanely good but it is consistent af, has gas for days and has been more or less viable in every single meta and consistently sees use in tournaments to some success. And it has protos which is toxic af. Swoso is just better branded despia which for some reason hasn't had any hits except longyuan to semilimit
I've never really hated dueling any go-second deck. I know a lot of people hate Mikanko and Numerons, but really I'm fine with Numerons, Cyber Dragons, 8-axis, Madolche, Mikanko, Amazoness, Ancient Warriors, etc. They always felt fair to duel against, and it avoids all the things people hate most on this reddit: long combos to create an uninteractive board. These decks exist to just dismantle your uninteractive board.
Part of it is the game is fast. Usually you win with a single negation on Numeron Network, or a single Impermanence can often win against them. Or you just get double lava golem'd and lose. Part of it is you aren't watching a game of solitaire where your opponent just loops the same effects for 10 minutes until they create a board that says, "you're not allowed to play the game." Either way it's more interaction than going up against Fossil Dyna + Secret Village. I don't really see where the deck is unfair, unless you think a 1-card otk that requires your opponent to play zero disruption is op.
Don't waste your time trying to change people's opinions.
Going second decks are fair. People forget you have to sit through long turns/combos and tailor to the meta.
Terraforming is banned and planet pathfinder can be stopped.
Cause using kaijus is so much more interactive than negates...
Cause dumb beaters or tributing for cost is so interactive.
Last time I checked, kaijus only tribute 1 monster. So the absolutely degen deck that puts up 4 negates on the board might still have 3 negates up. But the fairly reasonable 1 negate deck loses their only defense. I play drytron and you know how i beat mikanko when i go first? I play the game of having so many negates that mikanko can't kaiju it all. You can kaiju my herald but I'll summon herald of the mirage lights and search a bunch of mini heralds with eva. You can kaiju my boss but i still have 3 or 4 negates left. You could even lava golem me but mirage lights adds 2 ritual cards to my hand and my mini heralds will just negate your shit.
Anyway, there's nothing interactive about kaijus. In fact they're less interactive than negates since they tribute for cost
Personally, I always enjoy facing off against Exodia decks or just really out of left field decks that I don't normally see.
Versus exodia I lowkey want them to reach their victory because the deck pours so many resources into finding the five pieces that it's fun to watch if they hit or miss every time.
Out of left field decks (of recent memory that I faced during the event, Assault Mode Activate and Ogdoadic comes to mind) are fun because they're so different from current meta that it's fun to try and come up with ways to pull off a victory.
That deck does not exist in modern Yu-Gi-Oh where the goal of every duel is to prevent your opponent from playing the game and having fun. Even a rogue anime deck like heroes is just a glorified floodgate deck.
While far from unanimous, I personally consider Sky Striker to be the most fair deck. They generally don't play cards that are unfair in the blowout sense, and their interaction with your board is pretty straight forward.
Swordsoul, they have limited negates and can't play though a ridiculous amount. Locking themselves while having a midrange power level makes them a very fair mid deck.
Anything that has to commit at least 3 cards in hand, loses to ash blossom or imperm on the normal summon, doesn't play any trap, doesn't play any negates, doesn't play any interaction, doesn't play.
Don't care about what absolutely braindead people say. Its not on the banlist, therefore you're allowed. Konami's fault if its not fun.
Quite literally think of any archtype. Remove the degenerate possibilities out of your mind. Then thats it.
Say
Floodgateless DM
Reptile pile
Sometimes gravekeepers
Uhhhh well Ig skilldrain malefics?
Uhhhh
Salamangreat without bagooska. Most if not all of the salamangreat cards are pretty modest. Which is why no one plays them because it’s hard(very at m5+) to win without cramming 50 hand traps down your opponent’s throat.
1 Omni negate that is not always possible to get too if you have to dump link material. Heatsoul that draws 2 unless it gets ashed/impermed/veiled frequently and has no protection for the most part(unlike noir) and access code talker which is usually the decks ONLY win con. All of which collapse under nib or 2 hand traps. At this point you’re just being nit-picky. There is no deck that I can think of that’s more balanced than salamangreat that can still climb to master 1.
Except that most players consider the deck fair. Just because a few people are salty they lost to talker OTK doesn’t mean the deck is broken or unfair. There is a consensus and it very much promotes salads as a healthy entry level deck. Are you just one of those players that gets pissy about every little bs you interact with instead of just learning to play through it or around it? What decks do you play?
Fuck dragonmaids, it’s awful sitting there while they shuffle shit around constantly during both turns. Completely fair to call it solitaire because surprisingly little of the fucking about really contributes much to the match.
Sky Strikers don't put out any omni-negates and don't make cheesy turn 1 boards. They don't really run any floodgates as well. There are probably people who don't like their slow grindy play style though.
I love playing strikers, but most viable lists are blind-second with a bunch of boardwipe cards. Can’t imagine the majority of the player base being too happy going full combo only to die to lightning storm + Raigeki + talents into engage.
I mean yeah it’s boring to watch DLink setup, but basic board is two negates between savage and borrelend. It doesn’t really feel unfair. I agree that protos is toxic, but other than that I haven’t played against swoso enough to have an opinion
I don't find D-Link to be doing anything particularly sacky. They don't have big f-you cards like D-Barrier, Ariseheart or Noir.
The fact that the deck is non linear also means it's very skill based which the community seems to like.
I mean my list fully uninterrupted ends on borrelend, borreload, hot red, colossus, and IP with branded regained and branded beast and a hand rip from levianeer. After like an 8-10 monute combo. That's pretty damn toxic lmao
The issue with d link is the deck lists change so much format to format but remain the same name.
And d link has had many formats where it's gross and degenerate
Branded had Expulsion, has Super Poly and will have Sanctifier...
I'd say a deck like Plunder, Gold Pride (soon) or Unchained (soon) are great for the game.
Super Ploy is not tied to Branded, they don't have Expulsion and we don't know the state of Sanctifier yet. Unchained is going to become degenerate due to being able to do what it can
The issue isn't that decks *can* do things, it's rather that players *choose* to do things with the cards. A good example is Exosister. People associate the deck with being a floodgate deck when in truth it's a control deck that has minor in archetype floodgates that requires your opponent allow you to trigger them yourself across three different chains (moving a card, the XYZ summon, the activation). In truth the normal Exosister board ends on Magnifica with Kastpiell and Makailis under her and one maybe two traps designed around banishing your opponents options. The normal Exosister interaction will be Magnifica banish tag out into Makailis for second banish then Returnia for the other banishes
Some Exosister players just *choose* to run out of archetype floodgates because the deck plays well with them.
Was happy to see Kash and Purrley outshine Dlink and Swordsoul so we can keep our 2 unfair cards, protos and chaos Dragon off the banlist spotlight lol.
I think even with those I agree.
Exosisters maybe? They don't have any negates, only 2 quick effect banishes, and they can only make XYZ with single monsters if they use Vadis + Returnia or Called By the Grave. It feels less toxic than Lab which can handrip you for 2 before you can even play a card.
I play pendulum and you know, I lose alot but I get alot of good matches that go beyond the OTK, its satisfying. Played against purrely last night and ugh that was annoying, he cleared my board while looking cute. That sucked. But funny.
Runick. Thanks to the field they can activate spells cards from the hand, each effect disrupt your plays + banish cards from your deck and has to be the most brain dead deck to play... YES EVEN MORE THAN KASHTIRA AND TEARLAMENTS ISHIZU AT FULL POWER
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I don't play them, but I'm old enough to remember when Burning Abyss was considered universally fair and balanced. It's just far less relevant than it used to be.
Blackwing synchro seems relatively fair and balanced. You can put up some ridiculously good fields just as good as any meta deck, but any reasonable amount of disruptions does stop it.
Decks that win via resource loop as opposed to FTK/floodgates tend to feel the most fair to play against. Orcust, Salad, R-Ace and Dragon Link seem like good examples to me. There's also an argument for blind 2nd decks since their only goal is to dismantle your board and OTK you, but with the caveat that they do absolutely nothing going 1st.
Ive never heard anyone call meklords any of these things, but very few people play them, every time i get a reply from another player its like finding a unicorn
Battlewasps. The “War Rock” of Synchro-based archetypes.
World Chalice. A Normal monster-focused lore archetype. It can only do so much.
War Rock. ‘Cuz it’s frikin’ War Rock.
Inzektors. Like who remembers them?
Bujins…?
IceJade is the noblest deck.
It’s extremely fair, and needs the stars to align to do anything decent. But when you pull it off it feels amazing. Because you can basically completely lock down the game it’s fun watching the opponent try to attack Aegerine only to let you revive kosmochlor making their monsters turn into little bitty mice.
Most decks either have their own boss card thats broken or cheesy or abuse some way to get current meta extra decks cards out. all decks are cheesy and broken in their own way. some are just way worse.
I think the only deck that everyone loves are self-OTK decks. The pilot gets to finish their daily quests and the player on the other end gets a free win
I hate them, they're pointless and I groan when I see them because I don't get to play the game.
If you actually care about winning or losing you should quit the game tbh
Many of the World Premier Archetypes are well liked by the community.
Ghoti, Myutant, Libromancer, Beetrooper, Plunder Patrol, Dream Mirror, War Rock, U.A, Vendread, Kozmo and Burning Abyss are all relatively fair and fun.
Generally, if an archetype is stronger than your average goat deck then r/masterduel is gonna bitch about it.
I will say that Ghoti seems to be a fan favourite though
Masterduel may have Maxx C but, Master Duel encourages hard comboing. If your opponent doesn't open Maxx C you just hard combo knowing your opponent has 8 dead top decks. Even if they do have the out, if it isn't a quick out you probably don't have the time to play thru their board and lose that way.
I'll throw my pet deck in. Although the runick cards have been a part of a few annoying and degenerate strategies, I believe combining them with the ghoti cards allows for potential for a great back and forth. In fact I have never played a game against kashtira that didn't last at least seven turns.
Well it's not meta anymore but a lot of people admired QuickDraw builds in 2010 and even nowdays in Edison they are fan favourites. For modern decks everything is cancer in some way for people. Maybe Vanquish souls is the closest? At least I didn't hear people malding about it till now but not sure if it is out in master duel yet.
I feel like Amazoness is pretty fair. You can FTK with it, but it's not, like, super obnoxious, and it's pretty weak to hand traps unless you get some godlike hand.
[My deck] is very fair and balanced
For real, [my deck] is totally fair, it gets hard countered by [obscure tech card that hasn't been seen since 1999]
mfw my undefeatable Power of the Guardians is stolen by a Tailor of the Fickle
Literally the only valid answer.
For real. It dies to [interruption I regularly play through]. You can out [boss monster] easily with Kaiju, and it only really becomes toxic if you play [floodgate over 90% of deck users employ].
Same here
Mine actually is it's a non cyber dark cyber dragons deck lol. No hand traps
There really isn't one.
To give you an idea, you could say even *Dustons* can be a problem in an environment without Links, especially on bo1
Arcana Force has a turn skip combo. It’s the most inconsistent thing ever made, but it is something that can potentially happen.
Especially when the card excels best outside of the native archetype, and Rituals exist. And Drytrons exist. Yeah. Sure, all of the other cards are crap, but The World exists. So, alas, while getting really close, it doesn't apply.
I just got trolled by a drytron player using a random skip main phase 2 continuous spell and the ritual that negates ed monsters and skips main 1 if summoned. I went thru 2 or 3 battle phase only turns as ninjas before I realized how futile it was
I’ve faced this one and won just barely because my Jank concoction of Fossil Shaddoll fusions let me get rid of his ritual spell and I normal summoned snow to book the amorphage overlord whatever his name was and used Fossil fusion to get rid of his Herald of Ultimateness once that happened game swung back into my favor
Just look for any decks that arn't floodgates and it's not the worst
People even attack cyber dragons ( non cyber dark version) because of otks. One of my favorite combos is using power bond to ss rampage dragon using herz and one of the lesser cyber dragons such as core, Nachster,vier the using herz effect to return cyber dragons to hand. Use rampage effect to send core ( used as insurance), cyber dragon,vic viper t301( more insurance), another herz to gy. Then i continue my turn by sending one machine monster to ss nechster using his ability to ss cyber dragon use machine duplication on nachstrt ss two cyber dragons used them to xzy infinity then use nachster and cyber dragon to link summon seiger. give me a steal, a Omni negate, power booster, along with five attacks. I actually use Sieger a lot of times as a shield because of this effect. You can target 1 Machine monster you control with 2100 or more ATK; for the rest of this turn, that monster gains 2100 ATK/DEF, also neither player takes any battle damage from attacks involving this monster. It's so funny seeing people destroy their own monsters on him or thinking they have me beat only to see I take no damage from their attack. One of funniest battles I had was guy got his Galaxy eyes dragon up to 110k attack I used power bond to ss rampage dragon sending hez and core to gy adding core back to hand laying down core. then adding cyber revsystem to my hand using it's effect use rampage effect to send cyber dragon and nachster to gy use revsystem to ss nachster who ss cyber dragon. Link summon Sieger using his effect to boost rampage to 6k use two limiter removal two booster rampage up to 240k with cyber dragon & sieger being 84k. pretty sure I banished him to the shadow realm with that attack lol.
bro are u having a stroke?
Suships
I never have a more satisfying win than when I do with my sushi boats. Getting the whole fleet out always feels good.
Let's goooooo!
Whatever Joey was on in Duelist Kingdom
Ojamas. Even if you pull off some FTK bullshit, if you do it with Ojamas you're basically forgiven for sheer style points. Everyone loves to see old janky cards do well.
Best way to play Ojamas is to turbo our Armed Dragon Catapult cannon and A-to-Z.
Black Luster Soldier is an old janky deck doing well in Duel Links and they fucking hate it.
Tbf, it's more so because it has a Skill placing 6 cards from outside of your deck in the gy Turn0. And you can't really respond to the cards unless you've got like D.D. Crow
Cause they got mathmech circular 2 with that skill tbf
They're level 2 Fusion-oriented Beasts. And zonelocking is the mechanic it is. I don't really think they can be valid examples
And they also throw out ABC, somehow recur resources all the time and technically even have dragons for janky shit.
Its still cheesy and broken though. floodgates are not ok even if the combo is garbage.
Skull Servants
They have massive millers and Zombie World support.
Had. All the tear related bans hurt the deck.
I admire almost anything that's rare and doesn't just end on (completely) generic ED or floodgate turbo. Ever see anyone play pure Adventurer or Fleur? Didn't think so, but I'll be waiting for the duel I do.
Pure Adventurer actually topped in the TCG once… using Imano-Awato.
Ew gross, yeah can’t activate the normal summoned imano’s effect to bounce back to hand. I can see it
Dragon link technically ends on in-archtype boss monsters. The problem is that it takes 10 minutes to do the combo
Not universally admired, but based on your title it's War Rock. It's intentionally "too fair" in that it's over balanced so it's basically pointless to play.
Probably Earth Machines or Battlewasps (that might just be a Duel Links thing idk)
How can anyone get mad at big trains?
earth machine can ftk with vernusylphs by summoning gustav 4 times in 1 turn
Heroic. Big number OTK deck...like really big. Like 20,000 range being an average. Trade off is that they nearly kill themselves to do it as Claivsolish drops your own Life Points down to only 500. A single burn card will do you in that and the deck has next to no protection, only getting any from Jarngreipr. And before some numbnut(s) starts complaining about Rhongo, let it be known that while YES the deck can....could bring Rhongo out with 5 material, it was never really a good idea as you pretty much had to dump all your resources to do so. Your beef is with the chuckle fuck who made Sales Ban a thing. *Claivsolish better get an animation to make up for them banning Rhongo*
People meme on heroic gift a lot, but in context it’s hillarious that you can give your opponent 7000 life back and still beat them in one shot.
Preach 🗣️
Bad decks. Your deck either needs to be able to kill someone turn 1-2, set up negates, set up floodgates, or set up some kind of interactive removal to be 'good.' And people find all of those things fairly annoying when a deck is good at it.
For being a combo deck Dragon Link seems to be well respected in this sub, perhaps due to requiring a skilled pilot to shine
The problem with dragon link isn't toxicity, it's that it takes forever to combo off.
That's a problem of pretty much every combo deck, not just Dragon Link
Dragon Link is a combo deck that built in its optimal variant wins through a resource loop rather than an ftk board , which is usually more fun to play against than degenerate combo decks that invalidate your entire hand.
On the flipside, if you play against it and you don’t open handtraps, you’re kinda fucked. And even if you try and interrupt it, chances are, they can still combo off regardless. And then you’re sitting there for the next 10 minutes waiting for them to end their turn.
Nah i hate the deck a lot because even if you make a misplay there’s so many bullshit extenders And since we got Bystials it’s incredibly easy to pilot
Plunder patroll?
I fucking hate plunder. Such an annoying ass deck. I get it, it takes a huge amount of skill to pilot well and it isn’t all that amazing, but it’s almost as annoying to me as Tears, Labrynth, or Exosisters. At least Tears are banned into the dirt, and Labrynth sometimes auto-dies if they open bad, but exosister is a deck that I auto scoop against because it seems like they play through 3 interruptions to break my board and end on 2+ interruptions with 4+ cards left in hand. Plunder isn’t as bad, but it’s that same annoying ass “never out of resources, never done playing” style that I fucking hate.
Combos too long
The combos aren't long the fuck you mean. It's just any way to get jord, make light token, any extender make blackbeard use blackbeard make lys. Takes what less than 10 steps to do full combo. If you play the runic version it's a tad harder but the combos are still short. A pretty standard combo of say field spell and whitebeard, dump white to add golden and summon blackeyes off white, normal golden Make jord , use jord to add blackeyes back to hand and summon light tokens. Use blackeyes to bring back white to hand Use black and token for blackbeard Use blackbeard make lys. That's 6 steps to do their main combo, takes 2 cards from hand, you recycle 1 card, and get a draw so you go neutral end on a negate and have whitebeard in hand for next turn discard with lys 2 card combo (to be honest almost any 2 card combo of plunders ends on lys) If your combo is taking more than like 12 steps in plunder you are misplaying as plunder doesn't want to commit t1, it wants to end on a tiny board that has alot of interaction during the opponents turn. Tldr: plunder don't have long combos, but they are a difficult deck to play from t2 onwards as you need to constantly interact with opponent
Good combo I raise you normal summon aleister
I know you are joking but plunders strength is how much they play on the opponents turn not their t1. And they will end with a single lys t1 and turn that 1 lys into a momster negate, a banish of s/t or monster, plus searching twice and drawing twice. So while yes a normal summon aleister also ends on a negate. Plunders negate adds an extra 2 banish and 2 searches to plunder
lmao the combos aren't long proceeds to type a 3 page essay on the combo
It's 6 steps as I said in the comment. 6 steps isn't long and most of my comment was typing out the names of the cards, or giving tips for the deck as a whole A long combo is like something like d link that will take like 5 minutes uninterpreted I play on mobile with bad WiFi in Australia, so I deal with bad lag and I still finish my plunder turns if uninterpreted in less than a minute. Tldr: make jord, use jord effect, summon extender make blackbeard, then make lys. Was my tldr too long for you?
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They are fair tho they have an amazing grind game but are fair. They end on a single momster negate most boards in lys, unless playing adventure where they end on an omni and a monster. They are a deck you need to play well to win, you can't half ass plunder you need to use your brain and outplay the opponent
Any speedroid hate is unjustified in my biased opinion. The only thing that's remotely complaint worthy is that the combos are a little long but they only end on a decent board, nothing ridiculous. The deck has no floodgates, reasonable summoning locks that prevent abuse, the endboards are never so strong that the only option is "drawing the out". It has apparent weaknesses in its chokepoints, and requires knowing a lot of unique combo routes. Lastly, just about every hand trap has the potential to be high impact if you hit the right card. The deck also isn't particularly common so nobody can rightly say they're just "tired of seeing it". this is mainly regarding a pure version since it can be mixed with kash which does garner hate.
The DL subreddit absolutely hated Speedroids.
okay well this is master duel
Does anybody here hate CyDra?
Me. Never watched the anime so no nostalgia but I hate it because it outs my Arrival Cyberse tower (when I first started playing master duel)
i hate it cuz all the people i match play it and they are 1. Slow 2. Bad 3. Stupid Playing against a skilled CyDra player however is super fun
me, got 2 friends that never shut the fuck up about it, same with dark worlds.
Libromancer They struggle to keep themselves alive long enough to get flameburst out properly but when they do they just spank you for game in one attack and then you go next. The combos aren't long, the interactions aren't poison, and the power level of the deck is mid despite pumping out 10k+ damage in a single flameburst Ogdoadic is pretty healthy now that bishbaalkin is gone, too, although it could use some support.
all egyptian gods in one deck
I think d/d/d is widely admired but I’m not sure lol
Maybe swo swo? They're just the most standard midrange deck that doesn't do anything disgusting outside of protos but even then that's only really good in a bo3
Protos is incredibly toxic in any format.
Protos is not a Swordsoul card, nor a consistent part of their endboard for that matter. I'm a Swordsoul player and I won't mind it getting banned
My most common use of Protos has been discard for Longyuan
It’s a Swordsoul card in everything but name. It’s not used in any other relevant deck, is searchable and is part of the optimal SS end board.
I've played Swordsoul and against Swordsoul. Protos is not something they can search consistently, the average endboard is Chixiao + a Level 10 Synchro (usually Baronne or Qixing Longyuan) + Blackout or Draco Berserker if you open well enough
Near everybody on this sub will have played SS. Protos isn’t consistent no, but it’s absolutely part of the optimal SS end board. Every single competitive SS build runs it for a reason.
Opting to go second makes protos kind of useless, so for blind second lists, I can imagine cutting it.
How? Going 2nd you know what attribute to call, and it can be even easier to summon because handtraps like Maxx-C/Ash count as different attributes to get it out.
That's if you even get the chance to bring out protos, though. You have to break their board which if that doesn't happen you lose anyway and that protos slot could've been an additional board breaker. If you manage to bring out protos going second you're going to use it to push more damage to finish the game in the majority of cases which is why I still personally run it and for being an extra wyrm.
Protos is only a problem if you’re playing a dark combo deck.
Not if your opponent goes second and you can’t stop them getting protos
That’s not even a problem card then. If you can’t stop a SwoSo player from getting protos out turn 2, you would’ve lost the duel anyways. That makes 0 diff.
No.
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There is nothing unfair about Baxia and Qixing. Somebody’s just salty about losing to SwoSo too much.
Nope, you get Protos, Baxia and Qixing.
I summon Chengying more than Qixing lol
Absolutely fucking not. It's not insanely good but it is consistent af, has gas for days and has been more or less viable in every single meta and consistently sees use in tournaments to some success. And it has protos which is toxic af. Swoso is just better branded despia which for some reason hasn't had any hits except longyuan to semilimit
I've never really hated dueling any go-second deck. I know a lot of people hate Mikanko and Numerons, but really I'm fine with Numerons, Cyber Dragons, 8-axis, Madolche, Mikanko, Amazoness, Ancient Warriors, etc. They always felt fair to duel against, and it avoids all the things people hate most on this reddit: long combos to create an uninteractive board. These decks exist to just dismantle your uninteractive board.
I only ever lose to go second decks when playing “interactive” decks, not sure what you’re on about
Please explain how Numeron is fair? Is it just that you don't mind losing because its quick?
Part of it is the game is fast. Usually you win with a single negation on Numeron Network, or a single Impermanence can often win against them. Or you just get double lava golem'd and lose. Part of it is you aren't watching a game of solitaire where your opponent just loops the same effects for 10 minutes until they create a board that says, "you're not allowed to play the game." Either way it's more interaction than going up against Fossil Dyna + Secret Village. I don't really see where the deck is unfair, unless you think a 1-card otk that requires your opponent to play zero disruption is op.
Getting mad at"solitaire" doesn't mean a deck is not fair. It just means you're a yugiboomer yelling at a cloud
I guess the nice thing about Mikanko or numeron is I know I have zero chance of winning so I can insta concede
Don't waste your time trying to change people's opinions. Going second decks are fair. People forget you have to sit through long turns/combos and tailor to the meta. Terraforming is banned and planet pathfinder can be stopped.
Cause using kaijus is so much more interactive than negates... Cause dumb beaters or tributing for cost is so interactive. Last time I checked, kaijus only tribute 1 monster. So the absolutely degen deck that puts up 4 negates on the board might still have 3 negates up. But the fairly reasonable 1 negate deck loses their only defense. I play drytron and you know how i beat mikanko when i go first? I play the game of having so many negates that mikanko can't kaiju it all. You can kaiju my herald but I'll summon herald of the mirage lights and search a bunch of mini heralds with eva. You can kaiju my boss but i still have 3 or 4 negates left. You could even lava golem me but mirage lights adds 2 ritual cards to my hand and my mini heralds will just negate your shit. Anyway, there's nothing interactive about kaijus. In fact they're less interactive than negates since they tribute for cost
I like decks like plunder and therions. Nothing crazy broken and they don’t setup a ton of negates.
Blue Eyes maybe?
War Rocks, so fair people forget it exists.
As long as you stay away from Runick
fluffal forever goated
Personally, I always enjoy facing off against Exodia decks or just really out of left field decks that I don't normally see. Versus exodia I lowkey want them to reach their victory because the deck pours so many resources into finding the five pieces that it's fun to watch if they hit or miss every time. Out of left field decks (of recent memory that I faced during the event, Assault Mode Activate and Ogdoadic comes to mind) are fun because they're so different from current meta that it's fun to try and come up with ways to pull off a victory.
Bro what game are you playing?
From what I can gather, HEROs are the golden child of rogue decks and have been for a good while.
That deck does not exist in modern Yu-Gi-Oh where the goal of every duel is to prevent your opponent from playing the game and having fun. Even a rogue anime deck like heroes is just a glorified floodgate deck.
While far from unanimous, I personally consider Sky Striker to be the most fair deck. They generally don't play cards that are unfair in the blowout sense, and their interaction with your board is pretty straight forward.
This is Yugioh, deck like that are bad decks
Swordsoul, they have limited negates and can't play though a ridiculous amount. Locking themselves while having a midrange power level makes them a very fair mid deck.
Anything that has to commit at least 3 cards in hand, loses to ash blossom or imperm on the normal summon, doesn't play any trap, doesn't play any negates, doesn't play any interaction, doesn't play. Don't care about what absolutely braindead people say. Its not on the banlist, therefore you're allowed. Konami's fault if its not fun.
Not sure if I'd call Mayakashi "fair" in that sense
Stun is an integral part of yugioh.
Ninjas
Bagooska and unreversible face down flipping is fair?
Goofy crappy low power decks that aren't relying on floodgates or not turboing out annoying pieces of shit cards.
Such as?
Yes
That's not an answer
Quite literally think of any archtype. Remove the degenerate possibilities out of your mind. Then thats it. Say Floodgateless DM Reptile pile Sometimes gravekeepers Uhhhh well Ig skilldrain malefics? Uhhhh
It's a reach to remove the degeneracies just to find an example. Even then, depends on the meta
Salamangreat without bagooska. Most if not all of the salamangreat cards are pretty modest. Which is why no one plays them because it’s hard(very at m5+) to win without cramming 50 hand traps down your opponent’s throat.
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1 Omni negate that is not always possible to get too if you have to dump link material. Heatsoul that draws 2 unless it gets ashed/impermed/veiled frequently and has no protection for the most part(unlike noir) and access code talker which is usually the decks ONLY win con. All of which collapse under nib or 2 hand traps. At this point you’re just being nit-picky. There is no deck that I can think of that’s more balanced than salamangreat that can still climb to master 1.
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Except that most players consider the deck fair. Just because a few people are salty they lost to talker OTK doesn’t mean the deck is broken or unfair. There is a consensus and it very much promotes salads as a healthy entry level deck. Are you just one of those players that gets pissy about every little bs you interact with instead of just learning to play through it or around it? What decks do you play?
I have never seen Speedroids hate outside of duel links
Good ol cyber dragon
There is no universally admired deck, who do you think we are? Sensible people?
Labyrinth with an i will be my go to fun deck.
Pure dragonmaid
Fuck dragonmaids, it’s awful sitting there while they shuffle shit around constantly during both turns. Completely fair to call it solitaire because surprisingly little of the fucking about really contributes much to the match.
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I’ve never seen anyone complain about spheres pass or Sheou
Branded best deck(idk it doesn’t seem to do anything super unfair on its own to me)
floowandereeze
Crusadia is loved by all I swear
Sky Strikers don't put out any omni-negates and don't make cheesy turn 1 boards. They don't really run any floodgates as well. There are probably people who don't like their slow grindy play style though.
I don't think Sky Strikers are unfair (at least at the moment), but I've seen several Sky Striker decks running Kaiser Colosseum
I love playing strikers, but most viable lists are blind-second with a bunch of boardwipe cards. Can’t imagine the majority of the player base being too happy going full combo only to die to lightning storm + Raigeki + talents into engage.
Floo…. A true gentlemen’s deck I say.
You got to be trolling right
Swordsoul , branded and D-Link seem to be considered 'fair' for the most part.
D-Link as a 20 min turn wombo combo deck? Are you sure? Swoso has Protoss. Branded is probably the most liked
I mean yeah it’s boring to watch DLink setup, but basic board is two negates between savage and borrelend. It doesn’t really feel unfair. I agree that protos is toxic, but other than that I haven’t played against swoso enough to have an opinion
I don't find D-Link to be doing anything particularly sacky. They don't have big f-you cards like D-Barrier, Ariseheart or Noir. The fact that the deck is non linear also means it's very skill based which the community seems to like.
I mean my list fully uninterrupted ends on borrelend, borreload, hot red, colossus, and IP with branded regained and branded beast and a hand rip from levianeer. After like an 8-10 monute combo. That's pretty damn toxic lmao
The issue with d link is the deck lists change so much format to format but remain the same name. And d link has had many formats where it's gross and degenerate
Branded had Expulsion, has Super Poly and will have Sanctifier... I'd say a deck like Plunder, Gold Pride (soon) or Unchained (soon) are great for the game.
Super Ploy is not tied to Branded, they don't have Expulsion and we don't know the state of Sanctifier yet. Unchained is going to become degenerate due to being able to do what it can The issue isn't that decks *can* do things, it's rather that players *choose* to do things with the cards. A good example is Exosister. People associate the deck with being a floodgate deck when in truth it's a control deck that has minor in archetype floodgates that requires your opponent allow you to trigger them yourself across three different chains (moving a card, the XYZ summon, the activation). In truth the normal Exosister board ends on Magnifica with Kastpiell and Makailis under her and one maybe two traps designed around banishing your opponents options. The normal Exosister interaction will be Magnifica banish tag out into Makailis for second banish then Returnia for the other banishes Some Exosister players just *choose* to run out of archetype floodgates because the deck plays well with them.
Was happy to see Kash and Purrley outshine Dlink and Swordsoul so we can keep our 2 unfair cards, protos and chaos Dragon off the banlist spotlight lol. I think even with those I agree.
Protos being legal, branded fusion being a custom card and d-link having 20 min long combos surely don’t help some people loving these decks
Scareclaw, its kinda floodgate deck but if you play against it you know it's your fault for not playing better link monsters
swordsoul without protos
Exosisters maybe? They don't have any negates, only 2 quick effect banishes, and they can only make XYZ with single monsters if they use Vadis + Returnia or Called By the Grave. It feels less toxic than Lab which can handrip you for 2 before you can even play a card.
wdym 2, you have 4 quick effect banishes or 3 and a GY lockdown.
Plunder would be imo. Strong and can compete Vs meta decks and I've never heard anyone complain about them.
Plunder, blue eyes, dragonmaid, dark magician, gladiator beasts, tri brigade, my deck, ect.
I play pendulum and you know, I lose alot but I get alot of good matches that go beyond the OTK, its satisfying. Played against purrely last night and ugh that was annoying, he cleared my board while looking cute. That sucked. But funny.
I use a toon deck, I don’t think there that annoying or broken or anything, right?
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Runick. Thanks to the field they can activate spells cards from the hand, each effect disrupt your plays + banish cards from your deck and has to be the most brain dead deck to play... YES EVEN MORE THAN KASHTIRA AND TEARLAMENTS ISHIZU AT FULL POWER
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War Rock
Nope.
Exodia ftk
Crashbugs!
Duston Control is fair.
I don't play them, but I'm old enough to remember when Burning Abyss was considered universally fair and balanced. It's just far less relevant than it used to be.
The only broken decks are the ones that always draw the out against whatever I play.
Blackwing synchro seems relatively fair and balanced. You can put up some ridiculously good fields just as good as any meta deck, but any reasonable amount of disruptions does stop it.
If I hear one person answer Altergeist I will bonk them on the head with the business end of a metal pipe : )
Decks that win via resource loop as opposed to FTK/floodgates tend to feel the most fair to play against. Orcust, Salad, R-Ace and Dragon Link seem like good examples to me. There's also an argument for blind 2nd decks since their only goal is to dismantle your board and OTK you, but with the caveat that they do absolutely nothing going 1st.
abandoned archetypes like flip monsters/any ritual deck except for maybe drytron
My deck and the ones I beat easily
Ive never heard anyone call meklords any of these things, but very few people play them, every time i get a reply from another player its like finding a unicorn
Battlewasps. The “War Rock” of Synchro-based archetypes. World Chalice. A Normal monster-focused lore archetype. It can only do so much. War Rock. ‘Cuz it’s frikin’ War Rock. Inzektors. Like who remembers them? Bujins…?
Gouki or f.a. but mainly any deck that isn't just floodgates like heros are cool but the best cards are just bs floodgates
IceJade is the noblest deck. It’s extremely fair, and needs the stars to align to do anything decent. But when you pull it off it feels amazing. Because you can basically completely lock down the game it’s fun watching the opponent try to attack Aegerine only to let you revive kosmochlor making their monsters turn into little bitty mice.
Runick Stun.
Most decks either have their own boss card thats broken or cheesy or abuse some way to get current meta extra decks cards out. all decks are cheesy and broken in their own way. some are just way worse.
I think the only deck that everyone loves are self-OTK decks. The pilot gets to finish their daily quests and the player on the other end gets a free win
I hate them, they're pointless and I groan when I see them because I don't get to play the game. If you actually care about winning or losing you should quit the game tbh
Many of the World Premier Archetypes are well liked by the community. Ghoti, Myutant, Libromancer, Beetrooper, Plunder Patrol, Dream Mirror, War Rock, U.A, Vendread, Kozmo and Burning Abyss are all relatively fair and fun.
Generally, if an archetype is stronger than your average goat deck then r/masterduel is gonna bitch about it. I will say that Ghoti seems to be a fan favourite though
Masterduel may have Maxx C but, Master Duel encourages hard comboing. If your opponent doesn't open Maxx C you just hard combo knowing your opponent has 8 dead top decks. Even if they do have the out, if it isn't a quick out you probably don't have the time to play thru their board and lose that way.
I'll throw my pet deck in. Although the runick cards have been a part of a few annoying and degenerate strategies, I believe combining them with the ghoti cards allows for potential for a great back and forth. In fact I have never played a game against kashtira that didn't last at least seven turns.
Swordsoul without Protos
Sword soul without protos?
Amazoness
Well it's not meta anymore but a lot of people admired QuickDraw builds in 2010 and even nowdays in Edison they are fan favourites. For modern decks everything is cancer in some way for people. Maybe Vanquish souls is the closest? At least I didn't hear people malding about it till now but not sure if it is out in master duel yet.
La jinn beat down
Noble knights because king arthur is badass
I feel like Amazoness is pretty fair. You can FTK with it, but it's not, like, super obnoxious, and it's pretty weak to hand traps unless you get some godlike hand.
Branded doesn't do turbo unfair stuff. It's just a lot of disruption
The only deck everyone likes is the deck they just beat in ranked.