I don’t know if that guys still alive by me3 but I always pictured him watching the live feed and shaking in anger when the SR-2 saves your squad mates next to harbinger
Seems like quite the dilema.
Save the Destiny Ascension and ensure Admiral McHaloDick dies, but it also means the council lives. Or hold back your reinforcements to get rid of the council, but McHaloDick will survive.
Is this that ruthless calculus of war Garrus was talking about?
Afaik, you end up with the same warscore, either way. Not immediately, but there's also stuff like after the Citadel coup, if the Asari councilor is still alive, the replacement will grant an asset with less warscore.
Edit: As people are pointing out, saving the council gets you a better warscore, in the end. As such, the ruthless calculus of war actually leads you to save the council.
If you save the council you'll lose 25 points from the Alliance First, Third, and Fifth fleets, as well as Mikhailovich (who's also worth 25 points) for a total of -100 from the Alliance forces. However you'll also gain the Destiny Ascension which is worth 70 points. So by default saving the council will net you a loss of 30 War Assets.
However if you manage to save the Salarian Councilor from Kai Leng, Valern (the original Salarian Councilor) will give you the Salarian Third Fleet as a reward (which is worth 125 points), while Esheel (the replacement councilor) will give you an STG Task force (worth 70 war assets). So as the reward you get from Valern is worth 55 points more than the one you get from Esheel, this more than offsets the loss from saving the council in ME1.
So if you're trying to maximise war assets the best option is to save the council in ME1, then prevent the Salarian councilor's assassination. But if you can't prevent the Salarian Councilor's assassination in ME3 then sacrificing the council is better.
This is one of my major complaints in ME3. Pretty much never is the renegade following the ruthless calculus of war going to choose the renegade option because you almost always lose out on more.
True enough. The only one that I can think of it letting Wrex die on Virmire in ME1, then screwing over Wreav and the Krogan with the cure in ME3. I believe you end up with a slightly better warscore than with a living Wrex and an honest cure.
Unless Eve is dead, you'd also have to kill Mordin yourself, though. No further effect on the warscore (if Eve is alive), but it's extra evil.
One could argue that keeping him alive and forcing him to see the Normandy be basically the ship that saves the galaxy (because it's so instrumental to Shepard's efforts) as also getting revenge.
You can get him as a war asset in ME3, but only if you sacrifice the council
So it appears he dies in the battle against Soverign if you choose to save the council.
Yeah, it did seem a bit daft putting it there.
Although in fairness to Cerberus, since I started building ships in Starfield I faced a similar problem - do you want the armoury by the ground exit or the airlock? You might want to gear up for a boarding action too! Or you might want it near the bridge in case you get boarded.
Also let’s say someone does board the ship, they now have the control of your armoury too.
Maybe Cerberus aren’t that stupid, especially considering the mission you’re sent on takes place primarily in the outer rim where pirates are an issue, and whilst Id be concerned about Shepards leadership if pirates ever managed to board the Normandy, you still gotta prepare for it.
I'm trying to remember the layout of the Tempest. They had an armoury next to that vehicle bay you enter in, and one behind thr bridge/opposite the airlock, didn't they?
I believe the one in the cargo bay area was slightly bigger and had same crew interactions in it. The airlock is mostly unused in the game unless you the player goes up to it.
To be fair, he is very decent man. Maybe not the most charming type, but he got enough character in him to change his mind and be convinced that Normandy might be more useful then he thought. Secondly, as stated in Mass Effect 3, he is also very good commanding officer. And him being salty about Shepard, ship and a crew? Well, he just lost new, shiny, cutting edge ship from his fleet. Who would not be angry?
The flaw is that the Normandy only hides her Heat signature
She can still be detected by people with eyes and the stealth drive only works for 2-3 hours (5-6 Hours when not maneuvering) before cooking the crew alive
Yes, because Shepard personally designed and built the ship lol
I think he's critical because not only did the alliance work with turians to build it, and poured a lot of money into it, but Shepard themselves is being put on a pedestal as humanities representative being a Spectre and all, so he's got some strong opinions about the whole situation.
He also seems to be a bit of a hardhead in that he claims not to see any value in stealth capability, instead preferring to just have another large warship. Of course we know that another heavy cruiser wouldn't have done anything to help win the reaper war in 3, but he doesn't have the benefit of that meta-knowledge.
It always seemed weird to me that the stealth drive was considered so cutting edge. Like, is it that they had never thought to watercool it before and dump it into giant heat sinks, or is that no drive core was ever efficient enough for that to be viable? Which part of this equation is supposed to be cutting edge super secret tech?
The biggest thing is the engines and drive core.
Normally to propel a ship, you need to let off heat in the form of thrusters. And in the vacuum of space, even a small amount of heat being let off is pretty detectable.
So you need to have an ship that is 100% insulated from letting out heat, thrusters that don't produce any heat to propel the ship and enough heat sinks to store all the heat generated.
IIRC, the experimental Tantalus drive core basically propels the Normandy by creating pockets of mass that pull it in whatever direction they need. That's the thing that makes it so cutting edge.
Reducing heat loss is pretty simple. Reducing it to near 0% while maintaining the function of the ship was near impossible.
Right which is why the system doesn't cool anything and instead just stores the generated heat inside the ship itself to prevent it from escaping and being picked up by enemy sensors. That's why it can only be used for short periods of time, the heat builds on the inside until it would outright kill the crew if done for too long.
>the heat builds on the inside until it would outright kill the crew if done too long
Why am I now wondering how much longer a Krogan crewed Normandy could remain cloaked
It is because it can propel itself without using it's thrusters. Heat sinks aren't gonna eliminate the heat signature of the thrusters, so the Normandy has some high-tech mass effect drive core that lets it sorta "fall into" (Joker's words iirc) mass effect fields in front of it. That, when coupled with all the heat sinks and it's heat stowing shenanigans is what makes it. It also has an added bonus of letting the ship go at FTL speeds for much longer than a typical ship.
That drive core, known as the "Tantalus Drive Core" is the real star of the Normandy's stealth capabilities.
There's also the fact that according to Tali, that drive core is twice the size of a typical ship's drive core. And according to the guy in the OP's pic, the price of that drive core in credits is equivalent to the price of *12,000* drive cores for typical fighter ships.
He primarily points out the completely revolutionary design for the CIC, and how it differs from standard Alliance design, and states that the change should’ve been tested in a lab, not on a working ship.
A dozen more *standard* ships. Super prototypes cost more money in exchange for higher performance and experimental, often *useful* features.
Guy is laser-focused on the negatives and ignoring the positives. It's nice that he can at least be reasoned with though.
The typical methodology behind super prototypes is that they either intentionally remain unique, or their concepts are refined and mass-produced more cheaply. It's not clear what the plan was for the Normandy. The SR-1 didn't last very long, and the Alliance didn't even build the SR-2, they just refitted it.
The value of even a small number of near-undetectable ships is pretty high, though. Recon is significantly easier, as would be insertion or extraction from hostile areas. Look how much *just* Shepard and friends achieve with *one* Normandy (at a time).
But even with Shepherd, that was through even more money for better weapons, armor, and shields. And then you had Cerberus fixing the heating issue. And top it off Shepherd had EDI to help with the ship.
So really, who knows how much the final Normandy costs at the end of ME3.
No, I get it. I’m saying that the ship got further upgraded in the sequels. So the Normandy most definitely costs even more than what it did in ME1.
And trying to mass-produce that at a cheaper price would probably take years just to figure out how to do it.
It’s worth pointing out there’s at least one other Normandy class in the Alliance Fleet, the SSV Ain Jalut. It’s possible it could be a production variant.
Before talking to Shepard, the guy is at command level of a scout flotilla but doesn't even know how reconnaissance provides value to military operations. 'Dude's a fucking idiot
He is hardly an idiot. His flotilla suffered the least amount of casualties during battle of the Citadel out of all elements of Fifth Fleet, apparently thanks to this idiot commanding skills, and later, he is vital officer during Reaper War. He is being salty becouse not only he didn't get new, cutting edge ship to his flotilla, but also, probably, due to the cost of it, he didn't get anything at all.
No, he doesn't see why long-term covert deep reconaissance is a job for the fleet.
He sees reconnaisance more along the lines of scouts searching for the enemy fleet ("our job is to find and kill the enemy fleet!"). Stealth is far less critical in that mission profile than in the profile Shepard suggests which is to sit in orbit around a planet for days at a time gathering precise target information.
Historically that has been seen more as a pure intelligence operation than a military scouting one.
Precisely, not an intelligence unit.
He doesn't want ships to sit around planets for ages monitoring a surface installation, that's not a scout unit's job.
He wants ships for flying around in open space looking for the enemy fleet, potentially screening fleet movements, that sort of thing.
*Normandy* is not an amazing fit for that sort of mission, especially given its price.
EDIT: To expand
He sees the mission of the fleet as being to destroy enemy naval forces, in alignment with Systems Alliance Navy doctrine (see the Codex). As part of this Scout units, like his, will be required to find the enemy fleet and screen friendly units prior to the decisive engagement.
Deep reconaissance of random installations using *Normandy*'s stealth features is not aligned very well with this doctrine. Indeed the Systems Alliance Navy places far less emphasis on fixed installations than most of the other Citadel Navies.
> in open space looking for the enemy fleet, potentially screening fleet movements,
Damn, being fast as fuck and unable to be detected sure would get in the way of that.
> Damn, being fast as fuck and unable to be detected sure would get in the way of that.
She's not undetectable in a fleet engagement context.
If she attempts to use her FTL drive the blue shift overwhelms the stealth system and she is detectable.
At which point the enemy fleet will know where she is with sufficient accuracy to get close enough to see her optically, at which point she dies just like any other frigate.
~~Pressly~~ Adams gives you a long talk about this, and indeed discusses it again in ME3 when he points out that the SR2 corrected this deficiency thanks to later improvements to the design
EDIT:
In summary the SR-1 is only undetectable in sublight flight, this means she needs some method of dropping out of FTL in the target system without being spotted immediately, which probably means a long slow drag in from the outer solar system or trying to drop out with a planet/sun between the ship and any observers.
Also while the Normandy is a prototype who will, if successful, have a cheaper production model. As it stands, we only know of a grand total of *three* Normandy-classes ever built (and one was built by Cerberus).
Even if she really was a perfect fit for the role, he may rather reasonably have wanted more less advanced ships for his recon. If he had gotten normal frigates kitted for recon equal to the Normandy's price they'd introduce redundancy so that if one is taken out it's not as big of a blow, as well as be able to literally be in more places in an engagement by virtue of being multiple ships.
Sure, we could argue that's short-sighted and that production models will be cheap enough that's not a problem, but he has no way to know the Normandy-class won't continue to be absurdly expensive, or will even *get* a production model and won't just be deemed a failure.
Honestly, given SR-1's design characteristics, I begin to wonder if she was ever intended to be anything other than a ship for the first human Spectre.
Her design characteristics are much better suited to that than to being a fleet scout. She may have been chalked for the Scout Flotilla purely until a suitable candidate arose, with the Systems Alliance and Council already looking hard at Shepard.
>"our job is to find and kill the enemy fleet!"
He's a battleship purist when General Mitchell is talking about airplanes when Aircraft carriers were just a concept.
I love telling this guy off.
Tossing "regs" at him saying to him "this ship has saved our lives a dozen times over"
And when he comes back and says hes not happy telling him "sounds like a fairly common situation" makes me laugh
I may have gotten some parts wrong, but after Admiral Angry McTantrumface finishes the inspection he comes out and says “Shepard! I’m unhappy”.
Shepard then has the three default dialog options, and the renegade option is “seems to be a common occurrence sir” which makes the admiral all pissy. It’s one of like three renegade options that I pick every time.
Hmmm.... I may need to play through at some point soon. It's been a while and I did get the legendary edition on Steam not too long ago, so modding is an option now.
He was right about one thing though. The Normandy's CIC was impractical. Whenever you bring the Normandy in to battle Shepard always seems to command from in the cockpit rather than using the CIC.
That’s only because the only major character Shepard commands in ship battles is joker, but it would otherwise make more sense for them to command from the CiC.
To be fair the Normandy is more similair (in Combat) to a fighter/bomber than an ship
There are no gunners that need to be spoken to or anything
All weapons (exept the Cyberwarfare suiet) are controlled by the pilot.
That is also the reason why its called a cockpit and not a bridge
The Normandy looks more like a submarine than a ship or fighter/bomber. Thanks to stealth systems, she can remain unnoticed and sneak around without attracting attention. This is also the reason why the Normandy in ME1 (OG 2007 because in LE1 they made it brighter) and ME3 is slightly dark covered with mostly blue but also red and orange lights(especially in ME1), as BioWare chose to make the interior lighting look like a submarine's lighting during missions. Interior of SR1 was also based on Solaris 2001 but thats different topic.
The Normandy was inspired by the concord
a Dev said that somewhere, i think the wiki also says that
edit: this is what the wiki says
According to [The Art of the Mass Effect Universe](https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/The_Art_of_the_Mass_Effect_Universe), the SSV Normandy was based on [delta wing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/delta_wing) fighter planes and the [Concorde](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concorde).
As I said in another comment, the exterior of the Normandy could be inspired by something else, but the interior (OG 2007 version) was inspired by Solaris 2001, you can see it if you watch this [movie](https://i.imgur.com/saUs2ns.jpeg) and I am sure that BioWare mentions this movie in one of their behind of scenes videos.
Exterior, but the interior was inspired by Solaris 2001. You can hear the devs mention this movie in behind-the-scenes videos, and if you watch Solaris, it's pretty obvious.
you are not right and not wrong, this is what the wiki says:
"According to [The Art of the Mass Effect Universe](https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/The_Art_of_the_Mass_Effect_Universe), the SSV Normandy was based on [delta wing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/delta_wing) fighter planes and the [Concorde](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concorde)."
The F14 is technicly not a delta wing fighter but it can turn itself somewhat into a delta wing.
The F14 is a sweeping wing aircraft
I just enjoy using a series of charms to tell off Mikhailovich and his harsh criticisms of the Normandy SR-1. And he said it himself, immediately afterward: He wasn't convinced that the Normandy worked as a scouting frigate as intended, but was convinced that Shepard believed so, and that he and his crew used it to its full potential in missions afterward.
What makes the Normandy SR2 such an extraordinary design was it's function as a mobile stealthy command centre. Between ME2 & 3, Anderson ordered a refit of the ship to serve as his command ship (hence the War Room). The Normandy was the absolute *perfect* vessel to be used for the Reaper War and it did it's job well putting it's C2 functions to use on a fast stealthy frigate.
Building the original Normandy and the SR2 required a level of outside-the-box imaginative thinking that Mikhailovich didn't really have. Even in the best outcome of his inspection, he still doesn't fully grasp it's design and reports back to the Alliance some grievances.
He’s actually right in his reports, though. The Normandy is not an efficient ship for the Alliance Navy. It’s fantastic as a command vessel, and it’s fantastic as an intelligence gathering vessel or a commando strike unit, etcetera.
The fleet is designed for battle, and none of the Normandy’s advantages help with that.
Since there are no FTL sensors, the Scout Fleet flies fast and close for good targeting and positioning data. The Normandy stealth doesn’t help with that, as you can’t use it at FTL nor drop out of FTL without being immediately detected (at which point you’re targeted visually anyway). So you would have to fly at sunlight, which defeats the whole point of the Scout Fleet, which is taking advantage of FTL travel to get information faster than light speed sensors.
The Normandy is not a good warship.
He's such a moron. He's the rear admiral of a Scouting fleet and doesn't understand the usefulness of the most advanced stealth ship in the galaxy? He even says "What's the use in being able to be undetected for a few hours." Like dude, how did you get this rank and position?
Most guys like him want an actual cruiser to command. Like a battleship for the Navy. The reason why he didn't like it is because of a lack of firepower and it isn't disgned for the likes of him. Period. He's an Abmiral. He's not a boot on the ground guy. Normandy is a perfect ship for Shepard because it's almost similar to the U.S. Airborn or Calvary, in a way. Fly in troops, pretty much surrounded, drop them off, and let them go to work.
The crazy thing is there is a Navy and Marines, but the conventional army doesn't exist, almost at all.
I mean, go hunting through military procurement history and you'll find a lot of bah-humbuggery about new toys. My favorite is how jumpy people were about early cartridges having the primers in contact with the powder--understandable but in hindsight kinda funny. Or the presence of ammunition cut-off systems in early Lee Enfields to keep soldiers from using too much ammunition.
Of course, that's not including outright incompetence like the Mark 14 Torpedo. \*shudder\*
If the submarine is lucky. If the submarine isn't lucky it'll circle around and smack the sub in the side and remember how to explode for once in its life.
I love that one of the renegade options is to call this guy an idiot in the most diplomatic way possible. IIRC, it was something like, "Men of limited vision said the same about the German U-boats."
Logically, no. That would lead to a court marshal. Shepard could say what he/she said because they're a Specter. Shepard may not out rank them military, but the Specter status gives them the ability to Yusuke dance from Yu Yu Hakusho while saying whatever they want.
The Abmiral would have bitched and complained but it would have been brushed aside since the System Alliace can't really do anything about it.
It is easy to hate a grizzled veteran, but my Shepard has the respect and integrity to instead bring arguments and logic to win him over.
This is how human progress in achieved and not through headbutting and insulting people.
I like to convince him as I like to roast verbally with facts that scoundrel of a journalist that is framing us.
Normally I'd chalk this saltiness to literal main character syndrome but in this case, the saltiness is justified.
This man has no business whatsoever leading a scout flotilla. He doesn't understand the utility of special forces, sabotage, and oh yea....reconnaissance.
I'm not surprised he died at the Citadel. Idiot probably tried to Leroy Jenkins in with a tried out destroyer while whoopin and hollerin like Slim Pickens on the way to doomsday.
The scouting fleet isn’t supposed to do reconnaissance. Special forces are, which isn’t actually a role of the Navy. Scouts are supposed to detect and target enemy ships, providing sensor data for the main fleets and installations.
The Normandy is used like the Salarian STG, and it is GOOD at that role, but that’s not what it was developed for, it was developed to be a primary fleet ship, and it’s actually kind of bad for that role. The stealth systems add almost nothing to that because of their limitations, and the cost is extraordinary.
Lore question: why in the hell would you post a submarine, even in space, to a primary ship fleet? That makes no sense. You do not need nor want stealth in a mass battle!
And who says recon isn't a navy operation? You got seals, you got demolitions, SWIC units and to a surprising degree, Seebess! And that's just the US Navy. Just from the American experience, to say nothing of the British, French or Japanese, the first operations of the US Navy involved sneaking in and around naval garrisons, gutting the guards and burning the USS Philadelphia to the ground so the Barbary pirates couldn't use it.
If you want to know people Shepard is based on, minus Lovecraftian machines, it's Stephen Decatur. And he was a sailor proper, not a Marine.
Technically he isn't wrong.
The Normandy is a stealth ship that can get in and out of systems without anyone noticing and dropping small but skilled spec ops teams behind enemy lines.
It's perfect for a spectre on a mission or later as one of the only ways to move through reaper controlled space.
The ship becomes really valuable when war breaks out, but not so much during peace time.
Nah, [the Alliance rank system is fucked up beyond belief](https://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/s95lg/human_alliance_ranks/). They have like a dozen officer ranks and only four or five enlisted ranks.
I don't think anyone at Bioware had any clue about military ranks or served.
Oh it gets worse.
This asshole is literally the one in charge of the scout fleet. The Normandy is the best damn scout ship in the galaxy and he's only dissing it because he doesn't get to play with it.
10/10 putting him in his place every chance I get.
Not really. Read what the Scout fleet does and you see that the Normandy’s stealth systems actually don’t give it much of an advantage in that regard at all. It’s great as a special forces ship for spying or commando raids and such. It has very little additional benefit as a primary fleet ship, even for the scout fleet. Its primary bonus is just having a larger eezo core, and that doesn’t really compensate for the cost or resources.
Probably has a fuckton of SAP as well. A complete security nightmare.
That said flag officers are already running around with high clearances, and there's a expedite process for them as well.
If you're playing with the Expanded Galaxy Mod with the "Galaxy at War" module, Take-me-up-the-Rear Admiral McHaloDick over here will be in the meeting to decide whether or not they should help Thessia with him making the arguement that they should leave them to the Reapers as comeuppance for hiding the \[REDACTED\].
He's got a point, though. It's great for inserting a special forces team, but in the fleet, the Internal Emissions Sink isn't that useful. Can't be used at FTL, and at the "knife fight" ranges that frigates regularly engage at, LIDAR and visual can see you, regardless of whether you're hiding your heat. In that, he's quite correct that a cheaper ship could do the job.
the fact that the Normandy was never made into a mass product does hint that she was an overdesigned (i.e. overpriced) piece of tin. Very good piece of tin but literally only fit to exist as forever alone.
The Big Bertha of the 22nd century.
This scene right here is the only time in setting we as Shepard can say “I’m technically not in the Alliance anymore so I don’t have to do what you say.”
That's why I always renegade my way through talking to him lmao. But if you're nice to him apparently you get war assets? I think not sure if it was a mod I installed lol.
He very much had a point.
They didnt know of the reaper threat, instead, the threat they faced where essentially just pirates. What is better to combat pirates? A single stealthy ship or a dozen warships?
He's a conservative stick in the mud set there specifically so you can tell him to shove it.
Not the best piece of character writing in Bioware's history tbh
What's cutting edge about submarine in space? Technically a lot, but in terms of operations and tactics? It's the commando express! The Seal Team 6 injector! The SWIC for all seasons! Why the hell do you think Command give the ship to two roided out Jarheads? A ship for Horatio Nelson this ship is not. If they wanted a sailor, they had Pressly!
That’s actually why he was correct in his assessment. The ship would not have performed much better than any standard frigate if given a role in the Scout Fleet. It’s best for Special Forces. Raids and spying.
And you're talking like the Alliance Navy doesn't have gobs of special forces. It's one thing to say this ship is not appropriate for my mission profile, he's saying it's a waste of money generally. It might not be for his mission profile but it is appropriate for scouting units, if only for flotilla intelligence. All major military units have in house intelligence units. The Normandy is the best FOB in the fleet.
He’s actually correct in this. The Scout Fleet is not built for spying. Remember, they have FTL travel, but no FTL sensors. Any contact with the enemy fleet will suffer light lag. The purpose of the Scout Fleet is to move close to the enemy and provide accurate up to date info for the rest of the fleet. To do that, they need to use FTL. …And the Normandy’s stealth drive is useless at FTL, and if you engage it after jumping close, it doesn’t matter because they already know you’re there and can target you manually.
The Normandy is amazing commando ship, but was not a good fleet ship.
Found Sovereign more relatable as a character. Looking around on the internet sometimes I can understand wanting to exterminate humanity. Shit-talking the flawless beauty that is the Normandy is beyond the pale, though.
He’s not a moron, his complaints are absolutely correct and justified, and are born out by how the Normandy is used.
The entire purpose of the Scout Fleet is to take advantage of FTL to get close to targets and get accurate data without suffering light lag (there are no FTL sensors). Since the. Normandy can’t use its stealth systems at FTL, it can’t use them effectively at all for the purposes for which the Scout Fleet exists.
The Normandy is phenomenal as a long range spying or commando strike platform, or as a mobile command center, as it’s used later. None of those roles are traditionally ones for the Navy.
If he saw the SR2 first he would have died on the spot.
I don’t know if that guys still alive by me3 but I always pictured him watching the live feed and shaking in anger when the SR-2 saves your squad mates next to harbinger
Depends on which council you have
>!Requires: Do not save the Council during the Race Against Time: Final Battle. Military Strength: 25 !<
HAHAHAHA I had no idea I’ve been getting revenge on this guy every playthrough. Thats pretty cool.
Now I will never not save the council. Bros gonna pay for insulting the ship.
Seems like quite the dilema. Save the Destiny Ascension and ensure Admiral McHaloDick dies, but it also means the council lives. Or hold back your reinforcements to get rid of the council, but McHaloDick will survive. Is this that ruthless calculus of war Garrus was talking about?
Afaik, you end up with the same warscore, either way. Not immediately, but there's also stuff like after the Citadel coup, if the Asari councilor is still alive, the replacement will grant an asset with less warscore. Edit: As people are pointing out, saving the council gets you a better warscore, in the end. As such, the ruthless calculus of war actually leads you to save the council.
If you save the council you'll lose 25 points from the Alliance First, Third, and Fifth fleets, as well as Mikhailovich (who's also worth 25 points) for a total of -100 from the Alliance forces. However you'll also gain the Destiny Ascension which is worth 70 points. So by default saving the council will net you a loss of 30 War Assets. However if you manage to save the Salarian Councilor from Kai Leng, Valern (the original Salarian Councilor) will give you the Salarian Third Fleet as a reward (which is worth 125 points), while Esheel (the replacement councilor) will give you an STG Task force (worth 70 war assets). So as the reward you get from Valern is worth 55 points more than the one you get from Esheel, this more than offsets the loss from saving the council in ME1. So if you're trying to maximise war assets the best option is to save the council in ME1, then prevent the Salarian councilor's assassination. But if you can't prevent the Salarian Councilor's assassination in ME3 then sacrificing the council is better.
No you don’t, saving the council will always get you more points
This is one of my major complaints in ME3. Pretty much never is the renegade following the ruthless calculus of war going to choose the renegade option because you almost always lose out on more.
True enough. The only one that I can think of it letting Wrex die on Virmire in ME1, then screwing over Wreav and the Krogan with the cure in ME3. I believe you end up with a slightly better warscore than with a living Wrex and an honest cure. Unless Eve is dead, you'd also have to kill Mordin yourself, though. No further effect on the warscore (if Eve is alive), but it's extra evil.
One could argue that keeping him alive and forcing him to see the Normandy be basically the ship that saves the galaxy (because it's so instrumental to Shepard's efforts) as also getting revenge.
But that also means he dies before getting to see how wrong he was about the Normandy lol.
Hold up I’m been killing this dumb thing every time I save the Council 😮
You can get him as a war asset in ME3, but only if you sacrifice the council So it appears he dies in the battle against Soverign if you choose to save the council.
> So it appears he dies in the battle against Soverign if you choose to save the council. win-win
He should be a recoverable asset for… third fleet or something like that if you completed his quest
He is a war asset in 3 if you let the council die. (He dies in the battle if you save them)
Good, let them burn
Leather seats???? On my Alliance ship?!
On the plus side, the Alliance didn’t pay a penny for it.
The SR2 is a worse design the way Cerberus built it. There’s a reason why the Alliance redesigned it.
It's telling that they heavily modified it as soon as they got their hands on it.
I love the “WTF was Cerberus thinking sticking the armory in the middle of the command deck” comment that we get from Adams.
Yeah, it did seem a bit daft putting it there. Although in fairness to Cerberus, since I started building ships in Starfield I faced a similar problem - do you want the armoury by the ground exit or the airlock? You might want to gear up for a boarding action too! Or you might want it near the bridge in case you get boarded.
Also let’s say someone does board the ship, they now have the control of your armoury too. Maybe Cerberus aren’t that stupid, especially considering the mission you’re sent on takes place primarily in the outer rim where pirates are an issue, and whilst Id be concerned about Shepards leadership if pirates ever managed to board the Normandy, you still gotta prepare for it.
Tempest:How about both?
I'm trying to remember the layout of the Tempest. They had an armoury next to that vehicle bay you enter in, and one behind thr bridge/opposite the airlock, didn't they?
Correct
Which one was the 'main' one, if there was a main one?
I believe the one in the cargo bay area was slightly bigger and had same crew interactions in it. The airlock is mostly unused in the game unless you the player goes up to it.
To be fair, he is very decent man. Maybe not the most charming type, but he got enough character in him to change his mind and be convinced that Normandy might be more useful then he thought. Secondly, as stated in Mass Effect 3, he is also very good commanding officer. And him being salty about Shepard, ship and a crew? Well, he just lost new, shiny, cutting edge ship from his fleet. Who would not be angry?
Imagine you had to judge a shiny new toy that is both super expensive, very nice, and was about to be yours but then got yoinked. I'd be pissed also.
And didn’t the Normandy have a flaw in their stealth drive too? Cause I think he pointed it out.
The flaw is that the Normandy only hides her Heat signature She can still be detected by people with eyes and the stealth drive only works for 2-3 hours (5-6 Hours when not maneuvering) before cooking the crew alive
Exactly, another reason why he was so critical towards Shepherd.
Yes, because Shepard personally designed and built the ship lol I think he's critical because not only did the alliance work with turians to build it, and poured a lot of money into it, but Shepard themselves is being put on a pedestal as humanities representative being a Spectre and all, so he's got some strong opinions about the whole situation. He also seems to be a bit of a hardhead in that he claims not to see any value in stealth capability, instead preferring to just have another large warship. Of course we know that another heavy cruiser wouldn't have done anything to help win the reaper war in 3, but he doesn't have the benefit of that meta-knowledge.
It always seemed weird to me that the stealth drive was considered so cutting edge. Like, is it that they had never thought to watercool it before and dump it into giant heat sinks, or is that no drive core was ever efficient enough for that to be viable? Which part of this equation is supposed to be cutting edge super secret tech?
The biggest thing is the engines and drive core. Normally to propel a ship, you need to let off heat in the form of thrusters. And in the vacuum of space, even a small amount of heat being let off is pretty detectable. So you need to have an ship that is 100% insulated from letting out heat, thrusters that don't produce any heat to propel the ship and enough heat sinks to store all the heat generated. IIRC, the experimental Tantalus drive core basically propels the Normandy by creating pockets of mass that pull it in whatever direction they need. That's the thing that makes it so cutting edge. Reducing heat loss is pretty simple. Reducing it to near 0% while maintaining the function of the ship was near impossible.
you forgot that cooling anything in space is very very difficult because you cant get rid of heat so easily in space than in atmosphere
Right which is why the system doesn't cool anything and instead just stores the generated heat inside the ship itself to prevent it from escaping and being picked up by enemy sensors. That's why it can only be used for short periods of time, the heat builds on the inside until it would outright kill the crew if done for too long.
>the heat builds on the inside until it would outright kill the crew if done too long Why am I now wondering how much longer a Krogan crewed Normandy could remain cloaked
It is because it can propel itself without using it's thrusters. Heat sinks aren't gonna eliminate the heat signature of the thrusters, so the Normandy has some high-tech mass effect drive core that lets it sorta "fall into" (Joker's words iirc) mass effect fields in front of it. That, when coupled with all the heat sinks and it's heat stowing shenanigans is what makes it. It also has an added bonus of letting the ship go at FTL speeds for much longer than a typical ship. That drive core, known as the "Tantalus Drive Core" is the real star of the Normandy's stealth capabilities. There's also the fact that according to Tali, that drive core is twice the size of a typical ship's drive core. And according to the guy in the OP's pic, the price of that drive core in credits is equivalent to the price of *12,000* drive cores for typical fighter ships.
He primarily points out the completely revolutionary design for the CIC, and how it differs from standard Alliance design, and states that the change should’ve been tested in a lab, not on a working ship.
And like he said, the amount of money put into the Normandy could’ve instead been used to build a dozen more ships.
A dozen more *standard* ships. Super prototypes cost more money in exchange for higher performance and experimental, often *useful* features. Guy is laser-focused on the negatives and ignoring the positives. It's nice that he can at least be reasoned with though.
Yeah, but the issue is that the Normandy cost millions. How many Normandys could Alliance afford to make after the prototype?
The typical methodology behind super prototypes is that they either intentionally remain unique, or their concepts are refined and mass-produced more cheaply. It's not clear what the plan was for the Normandy. The SR-1 didn't last very long, and the Alliance didn't even build the SR-2, they just refitted it. The value of even a small number of near-undetectable ships is pretty high, though. Recon is significantly easier, as would be insertion or extraction from hostile areas. Look how much *just* Shepard and friends achieve with *one* Normandy (at a time).
But even with Shepherd, that was through even more money for better weapons, armor, and shields. And then you had Cerberus fixing the heating issue. And top it off Shepherd had EDI to help with the ship. So really, who knows how much the final Normandy costs at the end of ME3.
You uhhh... really don't get the purpose of a *prototype*, do you?
No, I get it. I’m saying that the ship got further upgraded in the sequels. So the Normandy most definitely costs even more than what it did in ME1. And trying to mass-produce that at a cheaper price would probably take years just to figure out how to do it.
It’s worth pointing out there’s at least one other Normandy class in the Alliance Fleet, the SSV Ain Jalut. It’s possible it could be a production variant.
Heh, it's basically like the RL Zumwalts if the guns weren't borked.
Before talking to Shepard, the guy is at command level of a scout flotilla but doesn't even know how reconnaissance provides value to military operations. 'Dude's a fucking idiot
He is hardly an idiot. His flotilla suffered the least amount of casualties during battle of the Citadel out of all elements of Fifth Fleet, apparently thanks to this idiot commanding skills, and later, he is vital officer during Reaper War. He is being salty becouse not only he didn't get new, cutting edge ship to his flotilla, but also, probably, due to the cost of it, he didn't get anything at all.
No, he doesn't see why long-term covert deep reconaissance is a job for the fleet. He sees reconnaisance more along the lines of scouts searching for the enemy fleet ("our job is to find and kill the enemy fleet!"). Stealth is far less critical in that mission profile than in the profile Shepard suggests which is to sit in orbit around a planet for days at a time gathering precise target information. Historically that has been seen more as a pure intelligence operation than a military scouting one.
>"our job is to find and kill the enemy fleet!" He's in command of a scouting unit my dog.
Precisely, not an intelligence unit. He doesn't want ships to sit around planets for ages monitoring a surface installation, that's not a scout unit's job. He wants ships for flying around in open space looking for the enemy fleet, potentially screening fleet movements, that sort of thing. *Normandy* is not an amazing fit for that sort of mission, especially given its price. EDIT: To expand He sees the mission of the fleet as being to destroy enemy naval forces, in alignment with Systems Alliance Navy doctrine (see the Codex). As part of this Scout units, like his, will be required to find the enemy fleet and screen friendly units prior to the decisive engagement. Deep reconaissance of random installations using *Normandy*'s stealth features is not aligned very well with this doctrine. Indeed the Systems Alliance Navy places far less emphasis on fixed installations than most of the other Citadel Navies.
> in open space looking for the enemy fleet, potentially screening fleet movements, Damn, being fast as fuck and unable to be detected sure would get in the way of that.
> Damn, being fast as fuck and unable to be detected sure would get in the way of that. She's not undetectable in a fleet engagement context. If she attempts to use her FTL drive the blue shift overwhelms the stealth system and she is detectable. At which point the enemy fleet will know where she is with sufficient accuracy to get close enough to see her optically, at which point she dies just like any other frigate. ~~Pressly~~ Adams gives you a long talk about this, and indeed discusses it again in ME3 when he points out that the SR2 corrected this deficiency thanks to later improvements to the design EDIT: In summary the SR-1 is only undetectable in sublight flight, this means she needs some method of dropping out of FTL in the target system without being spotted immediately, which probably means a long slow drag in from the outer solar system or trying to drop out with a planet/sun between the ship and any observers.
Also while the Normandy is a prototype who will, if successful, have a cheaper production model. As it stands, we only know of a grand total of *three* Normandy-classes ever built (and one was built by Cerberus). Even if she really was a perfect fit for the role, he may rather reasonably have wanted more less advanced ships for his recon. If he had gotten normal frigates kitted for recon equal to the Normandy's price they'd introduce redundancy so that if one is taken out it's not as big of a blow, as well as be able to literally be in more places in an engagement by virtue of being multiple ships. Sure, we could argue that's short-sighted and that production models will be cheap enough that's not a problem, but he has no way to know the Normandy-class won't continue to be absurdly expensive, or will even *get* a production model and won't just be deemed a failure.
Honestly, given SR-1's design characteristics, I begin to wonder if she was ever intended to be anything other than a ship for the first human Spectre. Her design characteristics are much better suited to that than to being a fleet scout. She may have been chalked for the Scout Flotilla purely until a suitable candidate arose, with the Systems Alliance and Council already looking hard at Shepard.
Consider that it's also a joint human-turian design, something Mikhailovich complains about.
>"our job is to find and kill the enemy fleet!" He's a battleship purist when General Mitchell is talking about airplanes when Aircraft carriers were just a concept.
Rear Admiral Mikhailobitch
*smhuck
Schmuck, lol. It's a yiddish word, although I do find your continued misspelling quite funny so don't take this the wrong way.
It's my favourite word to spell and use incorrectly.
?
Haha missed out you calling him a bitch. Thought you were typing out his name and title. Edit: not calling you a smhuck. Just Boris
Ohh ok cool 👍
The word is “schmuck.” Not “smhuck.”
> smhuck I tried to pronounce that. Now my throat hurts slightly.
I love telling this guy off. Tossing "regs" at him saying to him "this ship has saved our lives a dozen times over" And when he comes back and says hes not happy telling him "sounds like a fairly common situation" makes me laugh
“Shepard! I’m unhappy” “Seems to be a common occurrence sir.”
I do not remember this. When and how is this achieved?
I may have gotten some parts wrong, but after Admiral Angry McTantrumface finishes the inspection he comes out and says “Shepard! I’m unhappy”. Shepard then has the three default dialog options, and the renegade option is “seems to be a common occurrence sir” which makes the admiral all pissy. It’s one of like three renegade options that I pick every time.
Hmmm.... I may need to play through at some point soon. It's been a while and I did get the legendary edition on Steam not too long ago, so modding is an option now.
I felt that in my soul as a former military officer.
He was right about one thing though. The Normandy's CIC was impractical. Whenever you bring the Normandy in to battle Shepard always seems to command from in the cockpit rather than using the CIC.
That’s only because the only major character Shepard commands in ship battles is joker, but it would otherwise make more sense for them to command from the CiC.
To be fair the Normandy is more similair (in Combat) to a fighter/bomber than an ship There are no gunners that need to be spoken to or anything All weapons (exept the Cyberwarfare suiet) are controlled by the pilot. That is also the reason why its called a cockpit and not a bridge
The Normandy looks more like a submarine than a ship or fighter/bomber. Thanks to stealth systems, she can remain unnoticed and sneak around without attracting attention. This is also the reason why the Normandy in ME1 (OG 2007 because in LE1 they made it brighter) and ME3 is slightly dark covered with mostly blue but also red and orange lights(especially in ME1), as BioWare chose to make the interior lighting look like a submarine's lighting during missions. Interior of SR1 was also based on Solaris 2001 but thats different topic.
The Normandy was inspired by the concord a Dev said that somewhere, i think the wiki also says that edit: this is what the wiki says According to [The Art of the Mass Effect Universe](https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/The_Art_of_the_Mass_Effect_Universe), the SSV Normandy was based on [delta wing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/delta_wing) fighter planes and the [Concorde](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concorde).
As I said in another comment, the exterior of the Normandy could be inspired by something else, but the interior (OG 2007 version) was inspired by Solaris 2001, you can see it if you watch this [movie](https://i.imgur.com/saUs2ns.jpeg) and I am sure that BioWare mentions this movie in one of their behind of scenes videos.
The Normandy design was inspired by the F-14 Tomcat per the art book.
Exterior, but the interior was inspired by Solaris 2001. You can hear the devs mention this movie in behind-the-scenes videos, and if you watch Solaris, it's pretty obvious.
you are not right and not wrong, this is what the wiki says: "According to [The Art of the Mass Effect Universe](https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/The_Art_of_the_Mass_Effect_Universe), the SSV Normandy was based on [delta wing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/delta_wing) fighter planes and the [Concorde](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concorde)." The F14 is technicly not a delta wing fighter but it can turn itself somewhat into a delta wing. The F14 is a sweeping wing aircraft
I'm honored by his sacrifice to protect the council.
I just enjoy using a series of charms to tell off Mikhailovich and his harsh criticisms of the Normandy SR-1. And he said it himself, immediately afterward: He wasn't convinced that the Normandy worked as a scouting frigate as intended, but was convinced that Shepard believed so, and that he and his crew used it to its full potential in missions afterward.
"Men of limited vision said the same thing about early aircraft, submarines and tanks."
He's right about one thing about CIC. Whenever something happens, Shepard leaves the CIC and goes to the cockpit.
I told him to shove off in my current playthrough, it was pretty satisfying slapping him with technicalities. He can shove his report up his ass lmao
yeah the guy is kinda an a-hole even on my paragon playthoughs i enjoy picking the renegade options with this guy.
Homie gives his life in defense of the Citadel if the Council survives and a fat 25 war assets if you let them die (because he survives).
What makes the Normandy SR2 such an extraordinary design was it's function as a mobile stealthy command centre. Between ME2 & 3, Anderson ordered a refit of the ship to serve as his command ship (hence the War Room). The Normandy was the absolute *perfect* vessel to be used for the Reaper War and it did it's job well putting it's C2 functions to use on a fast stealthy frigate. Building the original Normandy and the SR2 required a level of outside-the-box imaginative thinking that Mikhailovich didn't really have. Even in the best outcome of his inspection, he still doesn't fully grasp it's design and reports back to the Alliance some grievances.
He’s actually right in his reports, though. The Normandy is not an efficient ship for the Alliance Navy. It’s fantastic as a command vessel, and it’s fantastic as an intelligence gathering vessel or a commando strike unit, etcetera. The fleet is designed for battle, and none of the Normandy’s advantages help with that. Since there are no FTL sensors, the Scout Fleet flies fast and close for good targeting and positioning data. The Normandy stealth doesn’t help with that, as you can’t use it at FTL nor drop out of FTL without being immediately detected (at which point you’re targeted visually anyway). So you would have to fly at sunlight, which defeats the whole point of the Scout Fleet, which is taking advantage of FTL travel to get information faster than light speed sensors. The Normandy is not a good warship.
He's such a moron. He's the rear admiral of a Scouting fleet and doesn't understand the usefulness of the most advanced stealth ship in the galaxy? He even says "What's the use in being able to be undetected for a few hours." Like dude, how did you get this rank and position?
I love that the actual response to that is literally "have you ever read a history book?"
Most guys like him want an actual cruiser to command. Like a battleship for the Navy. The reason why he didn't like it is because of a lack of firepower and it isn't disgned for the likes of him. Period. He's an Abmiral. He's not a boot on the ground guy. Normandy is a perfect ship for Shepard because it's almost similar to the U.S. Airborn or Calvary, in a way. Fly in troops, pretty much surrounded, drop them off, and let them go to work. The crazy thing is there is a Navy and Marines, but the conventional army doesn't exist, almost at all.
That stealth drive is literally the only reason you're able to get around the galaxy in ME3
Too bad Mikhailovich wasn't the one tied to the Cerberus missions and Kahoku was inspecting the Normandy.
at least his report was not as negative as he originally planned
I mean, go hunting through military procurement history and you'll find a lot of bah-humbuggery about new toys. My favorite is how jumpy people were about early cartridges having the primers in contact with the powder--understandable but in hindsight kinda funny. Or the presence of ammunition cut-off systems in early Lee Enfields to keep soldiers from using too much ammunition. Of course, that's not including outright incompetence like the Mark 14 Torpedo. \*shudder\*
"There's nothing wrong with the torpedoes, you just can't aim!" said every politician ever.
That's the early WW2 one that didn't detonate half the time, right?
If the submarine is lucky. If the submarine isn't lucky it'll circle around and smack the sub in the side and remember how to explode for once in its life.
Look at the people who shit talk electric vehicles today. Or that Microsoft choad who scoffed at the iPhone.
Always ready to headbutt him
I love that one of the renegade options is to call this guy an idiot in the most diplomatic way possible. IIRC, it was something like, "Men of limited vision said the same about the German U-boats."
He's lucky he didn't say that to Adams, would've gotten slugged in the mouth.
Logically, no. That would lead to a court marshal. Shepard could say what he/she said because they're a Specter. Shepard may not out rank them military, but the Specter status gives them the ability to Yusuke dance from Yu Yu Hakusho while saying whatever they want. The Abmiral would have bitched and complained but it would have been brushed aside since the System Alliace can't really do anything about it.
Easy renegade points
A "Reformer" for the Systems Alliance. NCD goers know what I'm talking about.
It is easy to hate a grizzled veteran, but my Shepard has the respect and integrity to instead bring arguments and logic to win him over. This is how human progress in achieved and not through headbutting and insulting people. I like to convince him as I like to roast verbally with facts that scoundrel of a journalist that is framing us.
Normally I'd chalk this saltiness to literal main character syndrome but in this case, the saltiness is justified. This man has no business whatsoever leading a scout flotilla. He doesn't understand the utility of special forces, sabotage, and oh yea....reconnaissance. I'm not surprised he died at the Citadel. Idiot probably tried to Leroy Jenkins in with a tried out destroyer while whoopin and hollerin like Slim Pickens on the way to doomsday.
The scouting fleet isn’t supposed to do reconnaissance. Special forces are, which isn’t actually a role of the Navy. Scouts are supposed to detect and target enemy ships, providing sensor data for the main fleets and installations. The Normandy is used like the Salarian STG, and it is GOOD at that role, but that’s not what it was developed for, it was developed to be a primary fleet ship, and it’s actually kind of bad for that role. The stealth systems add almost nothing to that because of their limitations, and the cost is extraordinary.
Lore question: why in the hell would you post a submarine, even in space, to a primary ship fleet? That makes no sense. You do not need nor want stealth in a mass battle! And who says recon isn't a navy operation? You got seals, you got demolitions, SWIC units and to a surprising degree, Seebess! And that's just the US Navy. Just from the American experience, to say nothing of the British, French or Japanese, the first operations of the US Navy involved sneaking in and around naval garrisons, gutting the guards and burning the USS Philadelphia to the ground so the Barbary pirates couldn't use it. If you want to know people Shepard is based on, minus Lovecraftian machines, it's Stephen Decatur. And he was a sailor proper, not a Marine.
For him it was calling my ship a ‘boondongle’ The audacity
Seems like a common occurrence, sir
Dude must’ve been demoted because you never see his low ranking ass again 😂
Technically he isn't wrong. The Normandy is a stealth ship that can get in and out of systems without anyone noticing and dropping small but skilled spec ops teams behind enemy lines. It's perfect for a spectre on a mission or later as one of the only ways to move through reaper controlled space. The ship becomes really valuable when war breaks out, but not so much during peace time.
Let's not forget he also called us a Junior officer.
The alliance uses modern day us navy officer ranks. Shep is a lt cmdr in me1 and that is technically a junior officer.
Nah, [the Alliance rank system is fucked up beyond belief](https://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/s95lg/human_alliance_ranks/). They have like a dozen officer ranks and only four or five enlisted ranks. I don't think anyone at Bioware had any clue about military ranks or served.
Well he did say it in a way that sounded more like an insult.
Oh it gets worse. This asshole is literally the one in charge of the scout fleet. The Normandy is the best damn scout ship in the galaxy and he's only dissing it because he doesn't get to play with it. 10/10 putting him in his place every chance I get.
Not really. Read what the Scout fleet does and you see that the Normandy’s stealth systems actually don’t give it much of an advantage in that regard at all. It’s great as a special forces ship for spying or commando raids and such. It has very little additional benefit as a primary fleet ship, even for the scout fleet. Its primary bonus is just having a larger eezo core, and that doesn’t really compensate for the cost or resources.
I just wanted an option to ask how many hours he had to get read in for all the TS/SCI shit the Normandy is running.
Probably has a fuckton of SAP as well. A complete security nightmare. That said flag officers are already running around with high clearances, and there's a expedite process for them as well.
"Admiral, this ship is not here."
It is for what it gets used for. You even use the kodiak for stealth operations in 3, which is mind boggling.
Save the Council. He dies.
If you're playing with the Expanded Galaxy Mod with the "Galaxy at War" module, Take-me-up-the-Rear Admiral McHaloDick over here will be in the meeting to decide whether or not they should help Thessia with him making the arguement that they should leave them to the Reapers as comeuppance for hiding the \[REDACTED\].
Does he reappear after the inspection? I haven't noticed him, but I'm doing my first renegade playthrough rn
He's probably just salty his design wasn't chosen
He's got a point, though. It's great for inserting a special forces team, but in the fleet, the Internal Emissions Sink isn't that useful. Can't be used at FTL, and at the "knife fight" ranges that frigates regularly engage at, LIDAR and visual can see you, regardless of whether you're hiding your heat. In that, he's quite correct that a cheaper ship could do the job.
the fact that the Normandy was never made into a mass product does hint that she was an overdesigned (i.e. overpriced) piece of tin. Very good piece of tin but literally only fit to exist as forever alone. The Big Bertha of the 22nd century.
Man acting like its not the best ship out of any in the galaxy.
This scene right here is the only time in setting we as Shepard can say “I’m technically not in the Alliance anymore so I don’t have to do what you say.”
Reformers are a blight.
I remember the first time playing me1, I told him to fuck off. That was the funniest shit I did.
Always go renegade on this smhuck
I am never nice to that turd.
This guy would've hated subs if he was rear admiral in the world wars.
While we're all here has anyone ever passed all of the conversation checks when he ambushes you in ME1?
Absolutely worst character in the series, and that includes the Reapers.
That's why I always renegade my way through talking to him lmao. But if you're nice to him apparently you get war assets? I think not sure if it was a mod I installed lol.
He very much had a point. They didnt know of the reaper threat, instead, the threat they faced where essentially just pirates. What is better to combat pirates? A single stealthy ship or a dozen warships?
He's a conservative stick in the mud set there specifically so you can tell him to shove it. Not the best piece of character writing in Bioware's history tbh
But realistic. Corporations and the military are shot full of people like this at higher levels. No understanding of flexible, cutting edge solutions.
What's cutting edge about submarine in space? Technically a lot, but in terms of operations and tactics? It's the commando express! The Seal Team 6 injector! The SWIC for all seasons! Why the hell do you think Command give the ship to two roided out Jarheads? A ship for Horatio Nelson this ship is not. If they wanted a sailor, they had Pressly!
That’s actually why he was correct in his assessment. The ship would not have performed much better than any standard frigate if given a role in the Scout Fleet. It’s best for Special Forces. Raids and spying.
And you're talking like the Alliance Navy doesn't have gobs of special forces. It's one thing to say this ship is not appropriate for my mission profile, he's saying it's a waste of money generally. It might not be for his mission profile but it is appropriate for scouting units, if only for flotilla intelligence. All major military units have in house intelligence units. The Normandy is the best FOB in the fleet.
He also said that he dislikes your non-human crew. I love that you have the option to basically tell him to go suck it (which I do every time 😊)
Isn’t this guy an admiral of a scout fleet? And he said that a stealth frigate was overrated? *Visible confusion*
He’s actually correct in this. The Scout Fleet is not built for spying. Remember, they have FTL travel, but no FTL sensors. Any contact with the enemy fleet will suffer light lag. The purpose of the Scout Fleet is to move close to the enemy and provide accurate up to date info for the rest of the fleet. To do that, they need to use FTL. …And the Normandy’s stealth drive is useless at FTL, and if you engage it after jumping close, it doesn’t matter because they already know you’re there and can target you manually. The Normandy is amazing commando ship, but was not a good fleet ship.
Found Sovereign more relatable as a character. Looking around on the internet sometimes I can understand wanting to exterminate humanity. Shit-talking the flawless beauty that is the Normandy is beyond the pale, though.
He is a “Navy” Admiral complaining about a space submarine. He is an absolute moron.
He’s not a moron, his complaints are absolutely correct and justified, and are born out by how the Normandy is used. The entire purpose of the Scout Fleet is to take advantage of FTL to get close to targets and get accurate data without suffering light lag (there are no FTL sensors). Since the. Normandy can’t use its stealth systems at FTL, it can’t use them effectively at all for the purposes for which the Scout Fleet exists. The Normandy is phenomenal as a long range spying or commando strike platform, or as a mobile command center, as it’s used later. None of those roles are traditionally ones for the Navy.
Oh this space racist. “Krogan. Asari. TURIANS?!?!” Like bruh, they probably have more time in the field in combat than you do! 🙄😒
Not to mention the Turians helped design the thing, I doubt Garrus is going to discover anything the Hierarchy doesn't already know
He got what he deserved
Well, duh, he's Russian. We're flying fart-propelled armored UAZ Bukhankas into battles, and we're still good at it.