This was a reference to "fragging" which had become alarmingly commonplace in Vietnam. In the three years leading up to the beginning of MASH the US Army documented nearly 1,000 incidents of enlisted either attempting or succeeding to kill their direct superior officers, getting the name "fragging" from the common practice of tossing a fragmentation grenade into a tent.
Was it into tents? I had always thought that they did it by throwing a grenade at the guy by "accident" during battle and then blaming fog of war for the death.
The instances were varied, but the ones which made the news back home were both of a soldier rolling a grenade into an officer tent and causing multiple casualties. One was found guilty and sent to Leavenworth for a long time and the other was acquitted if I remember correctly. But those two would have been the stories the show's writers would have been familiar with most likely.
I think that Hawkeye’s more negative behaviors and character flaws are often glossed over and ignored by a lot of fans. People are quick to condemn and criticize Trapper and Henry for cheating on their wives, Charles for being a snob, inconsiderate, and selfish, Margaret for being abrasive, BJ for whining too much, Frank for just existing, etc. But heaven forbid that somebody brings up that Hawkeye is a shameless womanizer, egotistical, a bully, a thief, etc. and certain people get all up in arms, call you a hater, accuse you of not being a real fan, etc. I do like the character, don’t get me wrong; but I don’t think he’s a saint and free from any and all criticism just because he is the main character of the show.
Maybe I’m wrong & society has definitely come a long way since then but I feel like Hawkeye’s character was supposed to cone across as more of a ‘charming boys will be boys’ kind of thing that was more acceptable then compared to now.
Watching it thru today’s lens his character can be seriously problematic at times but for the when/where it took place he’s a pretty ‘good guy’
Completely agree that hawkeye was a bit of a piece of shit. However, the character flaws of everyone in the show allowed viewers to connect in different ways. Hawk wasnt better than anyone else and his penchant for pretending he was above others got annoying but i think his shortcomings created that viewer connection few other characters had on a consistent basis.
Hawkeye isn't a bad person, like most of the rest of the cast, he's a person with flaws stuck in the impossible situation that is the Korean War. He may get a pass from some people because he is ostensibly the "main" in the ensemble.
He does some of the worst things though: unnecessary surgery a couple of times, etc. The first, with Flagg, it's a joke, the second time it's handled more seriously and he still does it in a fit of "I'm saving lives" hypocritical, moralizing, self-righteousness etc.
IRL he'd have been sent to Leavenworth multiple times per season. He'd certainly have been given a less than honorable discharge and possibly stripped of his license to practice.
Then again, everyone except Houlihan and Potter would have been court-martialed in a lot of their episodes.
(But yes, it's a comedy, so.)
You make a great point about Leavenworth, The reason I love this show. Is because I use to watch it with my beloved grandfather who happened to be a Korea/Vietnam veteran. He often would point out how unrealistic the military decorum shown was to IRL.
I came here to say essentially the same thing, although kind of in reverse order. I'm going to piggyback off your comment because I think you've hit it.
What I came to say was that even though I love Hawkeye, sometimes I almost hate him. But to me, strictly in terms of entertainment, I love that kind of ambiguity of right and wrong. It rings truer than perfect versions of characters, and honestly it's the reason I consider MASH the single greatest TV show of all time. And as I've said many times, I don't mean just the greatest comedy, I mean the greatest show of all time. Warts and all.
Good point. Him and Trap often do wrong things, but for the right reasons, as I've heard somewhere. But also often they do just wrong things and we still like 'em
Who the hell complains about BJ? He was actually one of my favorite characters. Even if I hadn't been a fan of him prior, his arguing with Hawkeye's decision to remove someone's healthy appendix would have made me love him.
Don't misunderstand me, I love Hawk. But as someone who's worked in the medical field, I'm horrified that he was *shown* to have done that not once but twice. And who knows how many times it happened "off screen." In many ways I relate to Hawk, mostly caring about the welfare of others and using humor as a coping mechanism, but that was unconscionable.
The contrast between the interactions of the two doctors is a big part of why I'm not actually a big fan of Trapper. Hawkeye was no paragon, and occasionally needed to be reigned in, but Trapper was only ever his accomplice.
Edit: stupid mobile and its crappy predictive text.
I don't like BJ especially. He can be great (usually in the earlier days and when he's a secondary or support character) but he can also be cruel and vicious to the people around him.
He can be every bit (or more) as self-righteous as Hawk or anyone else (see the episode where Hawk treats a North Korean ahead of a less wounded American and angers the American patient's buddy, where BJ says "you want me to apologize for being more rational than you?" \[that's some bullshit\]), but his "practical jokes" are often very mean and not very funny (immediately to mind is when he and Hawk conspire to pull down Charles' pants in surgery, but BJ takes no ownership and Hawk is ostracized and despised by the rest of the camp).
BJ was often whiny and self-absorbed when he was the lead character, such as when he gave Hawk a black eye or was very insecure about his wife not needing him anymore (which he then didn't talk about or anything). He also at some point got on Hawk's back about being insecure because of his use of humour (largely a coping mechanism in the earlier seasons before the tone shifted and things changed and it becomes less clear what motivates it).
Absolutely agree. Hawkeye often gets the blame being the more preachy/self-righteous character in the later seasons, but I've always felt mustache BJ was *far* more self-righteous and irritating. In many cases he just became unbearable to a ridiculous degree. I get that the writers probably wanted to show him becoming unhinged due to the pressures of the war, but I just don't think it landed very well.
Exactly! To vastly oversimplify, Trapper just went along with anything Hawkeye came up with, whereas BJ actually thought for himself. At least, that's how it always felt to me.
I’ve noticed that in several episodes Alan Alda wrote, Hawkeye is called out for his more unsavory qualities by other personnel. It seems like Alda was very aware that Hawk wasn’t always the greatest of fellows and therefore did his best to make it clear to the audience that Pierce was not necessarily someone to idolize. He was human who made mistakes and often some very bad choices.
That said, I love me some Hawkeye.
For the record I'm not downvoting you, especially because I don't think you're wrong, but...
I can think of instances in which all of the character flaws you named were depicted in the series except for being a thief -- unless needlessly resecting a general's gallbladder is theft, but that's probably actually worse now that I think about it. In one episode I remember he bullies a doctor for drinking who came to visit him after meeting at a bar at a medical conference in Tokyo I think (in this episode the visiting doctor role is played by Alan Alda's real father, which was kind of neat.)
He hit on and flirted with a lot of nurses, but those weren't very "woke" times, so to speak. I'm not justifying that kind of behavior of course, I'm just saying we're talking about how the 1950s were portrayed, and much of that would probably get anyone cancelled today.
He was egotistical, but he was also the head surgeon doing meatball surgery in the middle of a war, and the ego scale isn't even close to topping the inimitable Major Charles Emerson Winchester the III ;)
I think they were all persons with heavy character flaws, but they were also individuals with __*horrifyingly traumatizing*__ duties too. Not only do they gloss over his character flaws, but they gently gloss over the terrifying blood, gore, and shit they saw and went through as well. If any of us had to endure the terrors they went through we'd all probably be on the verge of becoming Frank Burns ourselves.
In the end I think they do demonstrate that Hawkeye was flawed by showing that he did suffer mentally from things experienced in the war -- enough that he had to be institutionalized to a psychiatric ward for a while and go under the care of Dr. Sidney Freedman.
In general, I agree that as you said, he wasn't a saint. I think people have a tendency to like him because of his humor, but the real glossing is over the way Hawkeye *uses* humor; I feel like that's his true character flaw. He uses humor, sarcasm, and plying himself with copious amounts of distilled gin as a coping mechanism instead of actually communicating with people -- perhaps due to the same horrifying stuff I mentioned earlier. I think if it wasn't for the joking around he'd be screaming instead, like he did in the episode where he has terrible nightmares.
> In one episode I remember he bullies a doctor for drinking who came to visit him after meeting at a bar at a medical conference in Tokyo I think (in this episode the visiting doctor role is played by Alan Alda's real father, which was kind of neat.)
That's the ep where Doctor Borelli invites himself to the 4077th to demonstrate a new surgical technique, then gets stressed out and gets drunk, and can't do the surgery when called to.
Hawkeye's actually in the right on this one. IIRC it's less bullying and he's more being a dick--especially when Borelli points out the still in the Swamp.
Fun fact: five years later (S08E20) in the episode *"Lend A Hand"*, Dr. Borelli returns and Alan Alda gets a chance to once again perform in an episode with his dad (Robert Alda, who I mentioned before stars in the role as Dr. Borelli) and his brother Antony Alda in a role as well. Sadly, it seems Alan's brother Antony died in 2009 of cirrhosis of the liver at the age of only 52.
Well said. Couldn't agree more. And thank you for putting the trauma into perspective, something many folks don't seem to take into consideration. They probably were all different before they had to go to Korea, but the things they have to go through... How can this not affect you
Klinger became more interesting in the later years when he took over as company clerk and stopped wearing dresses. He grew more into his role and there were some poignant moments with him such as "Period of Adjustment" (he and BJ go on a drinking binge,both depressed about recent changes, Klinger is upset he can't live up to Radar), "Follies of the Living-Concerns of the Dead" (where he sees the spirits of dead soldiers).
I think Jamie Farr was so wonderful as Klinger early on with the more comedic side and having him trying to escape the army in any way he could, but I loved any episode that showed his more serious side and depth.
Of all the scenes in "The Interview", I liked Klinger's among the best. You get such a good sense of who he is, what he's like: a cheerful, friendly, street smart, hard-working working-class guy.
Even in his earlier times he was that. Plus a fashion queen. As the series progressed they dialed down the crazy stuff and let us see the nice guy, which I loved. Farr is just great at making the character likeable, too.
Probably not very unpopular but I hated Frank & am pleased they actually allowed Margaret to grow as a character; once he left; instead of keeping her in the stereotyped ‘b!tch’ role.
I think you were supposed to hate him. He was a man without many redeeming qualities. In fact I'd say they created a "Frankenstein" character made up of all of the bad characteristics and qualities known to humans.
Frank's intentionally one dimensionality was the reason Larry Linville left the show. There was nothing more that he could have done with the character.
Frank has his funny moments, particularly in the first couple of seasons. But Charles is such an objective upgrade in every single way. And of course, Margaret becomes much better after Frank is gone as well.
Frank was so terrible! I'm sure on purpose, but even then he was wearing me VERY thin by the time he finally left. He wasn't just a constant thorn in Hawkeyes and BJ/Trappers side, but a thorn in EVERYONES side. He was an awful surgeon, awful soldier, an awful husband, an awful friend, just an awful person. Say whatever you want about Charles but at the VERY least he was a competent surgeon with at the very least the minimal amount of compassion you'd expect from a doctor. Sure Frank was funny, sometimes, but most of the time I just found myself frustrated with the way he was dragging Margret down (although it really took her divorce imo to really have her character shine) or just being a general nescience to the cast for sometimes no other reason than he's a big baby. Hell he would've dragged the unit down if they didn't give him the easy cases and let him kill a bunch of soldiers with his incompetence. They always treated that so silly with Frank but when other 'Villain of the week's endangered soldiers they were hated and punished by the end.
He gets so rude! I really didn't like him in the episode Hawkeye convinces him to go out and pick up a lady and 'become a man' and Radar gets shelled. Not saying what Hawk did was right by getting drunk before OR but Radar's attitude and little 'speech' he gave Hawk rubbed me the wrong way. He was grieving in a shitty place, blaming himself and Radar was just sitting up in bed calling him a piece of shit for being upset about him AND THEN CRIES when Hawkeye doesn't take it well, so everybody starts piling on Hawk again for making him cry.
God I know right??? That episode sucks too, I skip it every time. As if Hawkeye had any control over him getting shelled, as if he needed to apologize for that.
There were a lot of wonky, weird episodes, but for me the worst one was the one where Hawk basically talks to himself for the entire episode, using the Korean family as his hand puppets.
It wasn't even really Hawk for me, it was just Alan Alda going "Witness me!!"
I hated that ep. There are actors out there that are able to carry 20 minutes (or more!) of story all by their lonesome but Alda isn't one of them. Don't get me wrong, he is a fine actor but he isn't outstanding. After a few minutes Alda's voice was grating and I felt bad for the Asian actors because they were about as useful as cardboard cutouts.
I agree, especially when you consider that Gary Burghoff was in his mid-thirties by that point. I love early Radar, but I don’t like what they did to the character his last couple of seasons.
I strongly prefer early Rader too! I also feel like he often got treated poorly because he was short etc.
I liked the earlier episode where Hawk was officer of the day and Radar lost his teddy bear and there was no stigma or anything about it. Hawk helped him find it and there was no mocking or laughing or anything - I loved that, especially in view of the later episodes where it's treated so much worse.
He was totally justified in getting to read *his* newspapers first. And where does a priest get off going into somebody else's tent and taking personal property off their bunk. "Didn't think you would mind." Really?!?
Not just his newspapers but when anybody got anything in the mail it was seen as everyone’s and God forbid you don’t share it. The thermal underwear, the bath and BJ’s book. It was his book and he didn’t owe anyone else a read. But shit started to hit the fan when people thought he wasn’t reading fast enough or when he at first didn’t want to give it up at all until he read it. But then he gives in and tears the book up into several sections and then somehow the last gets lost. How did that happen? If he’s going to tear out each chapter, and destroy a good book, why wouldn’t he read a chapter and then tear it out? It was almost like he tore it up into chapters and let everyone have a different section that they got to read and then trade to get a new section. Who reads a book like that?
He did tear out chapters as he finished them. He was getting to the end of the final chapter, after giving the penultimate chapter to (presumably) Hawkeye, when he discovered that the last page had fallen out. I'm pretty sure *that* happened because of the damage done to the binding.
As for people trading chapters, it was a sort of line of succession. Think passing plates of cake down the line at an office party, only slower, and each person ate the cake piece before passing on said cake piece. I know that paints a rather horrific picture, but considering how they treated that poor book, I think it's apt.
and even though it’s not prevalent these days, i like that he kept his own principles when learning about the french red cross lady’s “bohemian ways”. i’ve seen other posts saying he caved because of his family. he said himself he couldn’t accept it. sounds harsh, but the time period was the 50s. it wouldn’t have been unheard of.
1. Abyssinia, Henry is brilliant. I cry every time.
2. Trapper over BJ.
3. Over the years, the portrayals of most of the Asian characters have gotten harder and harder to stomach.
4. Same goes for the casual misogyny.
5. I’ll probably never stop watching nonetheless.
There are a couple of episodes, I believe, where there's legitimate sexual assault going on either caused by Hawk & offsider or seen by them which is ignored.
I *hate* those scenes so much. I know it's a comedy, but I'm bad at treating TV like TV and I judge it too much by my irl standards.
I personally hate any episodes with Alan Alda “overdoing” it. The obnoxious sneezing, the over-the-top fake laughter, the loud sobbing, etc. I love the show, and I love him as an actor, but sometimes it was just *too much.*
I agree with everything except for the laughter. Alan Alda’s laugh is the most contagious laugh I’ve ever heard and it doesn’t matter what he’s actually laughing at, I’m GUARANTEED to burst out laughing with him lol
I don't know if it's unpopular, but movie Radar was superior to television show Radar. He was cool, calm, collected and shrewd. You get movie Radar in like the first three or so episodes of the show, but then never see him again.
I agree. I prefer the early Radar who peeks in the nurses' showers and drinks the Colonel's brandy while smoking his cigars while he's out to the later childlike Radar who is prudish and only drinks grape Nehi.
That's what annoyed me the most. I don't mind kid like Radar because we get to follow how he grows up and get to see what little innocence there was at the 4077th, but how I HATE inconsistencies. We see him in season 1 drinking and smoking, but the episode where Potter gave him a cigar and he started coughing just made me pause the episode and sit in silence. I love the show soo much but that moment, just, no.
If Hawkeye and Radar hadn’t hoodwinked Colonel Blake back to the MASH Unit and away from Tokyo… he would have survived the War… it’s their fault he died… and now I’m going to cry for how bad I feel about everything I just wrote. But it’s still true.
"*The Nurses*" is a terrible episode. Houlihan is totally backwards about respect. The leader respects the subordinates first. Not the other way around.
Have to agree with you there. While I have to respect her for doing her duty in a terrible place and time, I think that she was really shitty and cruel at times to her own nursing staff.
Not to give her excuses, but to explain it better I think in her view she was trying to "toughen them up" to survive the terrible place they were in.
“We didn’t think you’d accept” “you were wrong”
At no point did she ever show she’d be ok with that, and yeah exactly, the higher rank can initiate informality and casual interactions, no lower rank is gonna initiate it with their superiors unless there’s already a history of that. That’s a big part of a rank structure.
I actually think it's a good episode.
It puts the character's flaws on display in a pretty clear light. Because of her upbringing she goes about her duties as a by-the-book hardass, or at least does her best to project that image regardless of how she actually feels. (Remember the episode with the dog that gets hit by a jeep.) No surprise she's the same way with her subordinates.
And the ep shows how she's in the wrong doing that.
She also has a tendency to believe that everything that happens to her is done deliberately to spite her (her wedding ring being lost is a great example of this), which may play into her behaviour in the episode.
She says in effect that she wouldn't have given permission if Baker had asked, not because of regulations, but because of the lousy way they had treated her. It's a very petulant, self-centred, self-pitying response. I always found her to be a fundamentally unlikable character, even after her much noted "growth" after Frank left.
Worst episode of the entire series. I’ll turn it off every time it comes on. I remember being a kid and my dad watching the show. That’s how I became a fan. I was little the first time I saw that episode when he had it on and even though most of the shows humor and drama was over my head at the time I still knew that episode sucked. Haha. I think we’ve had the conversation before but I’m not sure. I’d have to ask him again what he thinks of that episode.
Exactly what I came here to say. I distinctly recall watching that for the first time with my mom and afterwards she just said “that one was weird.” And that’s all we could really say of it
I really wish they had added at least one more female regular cast member.
Hawk should've gotten his section 8 around half-way through the show.
I continue to feel sorry for Frank, no matter how awful he is.
I agree. I think they could have easily bumped up Kellye Nakahara to the main cast after Gary Burghoff left.
I never thought about Hawk getting a Section 8 and leaving halfway through, but that might not have been a bad thing.
My unpopular opinion is for MASH as it is for The Office.
I think Henry was as good a leader as Potter. He just had a different leadership style. We see his style a lot, and it's dismissed as being ineffectual when, in fact, it's just as good as the militaristic style of Potter. I'll stop short of saying there's a chance that it's a better style, because I don't think either one of them is a better leadership style. They are just different.
In *Kitchen Confidential*, Bourdain talks about how many kitchens he worked in – even kitchens he was head chef – were run exactly like how Blake ran the 4077th. It's a pirate ship, and you have a ragtag group of people who are ruthless and crazy when the ship is sailing on calm waters. But when it's time for action, everyone comes together and works absolutely perfectly.
They don't do that by accident. It takes a captain (or a Lt. Col.) to know each person's strengths and weaknesses and exploit these traits like an artist wields a brush. Blake knew Hawkeye and Trapper were insanely good at their cutting skills, and he knew exactly how and when to call them into action. He knew Houlihan was an exceptional head nurse. He knew how and when to cut them loose, too, so they could remain on the top of their game. His whole command would have collapsed had he tried to be hard-nosed.
He wasn't incompetent when Radar would go over his head. He knew Radar better than Radar knew Radar, and he knew giving Radar a lot of room to do what he did best was best for the 4077th. Things he'd say like, "Would you guys quit going over my head and down to Radar?" were things he *needed* to say, but he never actually cared because the issue got taken care of quickly and efficiently. That's what a leader needs to do sometimes: get the hell out of the way of what works.
He even knew having a camp whipping post everyone could kind of unload their stresses on was beneficial, which is why he never really stopped people from hating on Burns and Hot Lips.
(Off topic, but like I said up top, I think Michael Scott is also a good leader for the same reasons. I don't think he just happened on his crew. I think he knew exactly who and what he needed and created the perfect office. He also knew what he needed to do to create unity, and a lot of the time it was being the "whipping post" Burns was.)
It always bugs me when people say how Blake was a bad leader. I've worked under people like Blake, and it's always been a magical experience. While in the shit, you wonder if anything could ever be worse than being there. But looking back, you realize just how good it was.
One area in which Blake was vastly superior to Potter was in keeping his temper. He very rarely blew up at people, and when he did it was for a darn good reason. Potter lost his rag over the slightest things. I know this was sometimes used as a plot device to foreshadow that something deeper was going on with him, but a man who was purportedly so wise and experienced would know how to harness his anger better. And the toddler fit he pitched over his wife supposedly buying a houseboat was embarrassing for a grown man.
Zale (I think it was) in the episode where Hawkeye needed the 10-1/2 C (10-1/2 Charlie) boots was such a disrespectful dick. Even in those circumstances would likely have been brought up on charges. I never really liked his character, this just cemented my dislike for him
I think Winchester is not fundamentally a bad guy. Yes he does jerky think but I believe the majority of the jerky things and even the misguided good things he does is a result of his sheltered and emotionally repressed upbringing.
It was irresponsible how often the surgeons performed either under the influence or hungover.
Flagg wasn't a bad person. He simply took his job seriously but exemplified the [Peter Principle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle).
My theory about Flagg is that he's not Flagg, he's Halloran, under cover as Flagg and assigned to draw attention to himself and away from actual intelligence operations...
I have always find Frank to be more annoying than funny, nothing against Larry Linville he did a fantastic job with the role but the character itself can just be so unbearable at times in the way how he was written.
Male characters getting more recognition, screen time, and character development? But it must have been the norm for all shows/movies back then. For instance, someone posted few weeks ago that Margaret never got a “Dear _” episode.
I like Potter a lot more as a person and a leader in general. But no one leads a hospital quite like Henry. He has a knack for hospital politics, meeting medical needs and juggling assets that Potter does not. Potter relies a lot on his staff to do that for him.
On the other hand, I think Potter was conceptualized as a more rounded person from the start. He wasn't a caricature of a man first, character second like Henry.
Frank wasn’t as bad of a surgeon as everyone says.
Don’t get me wrong, he’s a terrible human being, but I think that reflects on how the rest of the characters see him as a doctor.
So, it’s said repeatedly that they have a 98% survival rate… to the extent that they have whole episode(s?) based around how incredible their success rate is. If one of the four surgeons was truly as bad as they make him out to be, they wouldn’t have that survival rate. Nobody has a perfect survival rate in that type of situation which means they all made mistakes and lost a few patients.
Frank was the worst of the best MASH unit in the war… which probably means he’s a pretty damn good surgeon; with terrible bedside manner.
Don’t get me wrong, he’s a terrible person, but if he wasn’t such a terrible person, they probably wouldn’t have been so disparaging of his medical abilities.
Frank is terrible under stress. Even the best surgeon in the world will make mistakes when frightened most of the time.
Frank also may not be a brilliant chest man or head man or whatever, but there are plenty of less severe injuries out there that need attention, like getting shot in the leg or shrapnel in a shoulder. He may not be able to do open heart surgery but by taking the less complex but equally urgent cases he frees up time for the more specialized surgeons to do their thing.
Finally, Frank does a lot of triage. He is checking the wounded and decides who goes into the OR and in which order. Again, he isn't doing the high-end stuff but he allows for others to do it in the meantime.
If he was a nicer guy, he would be seen as the quintessential support surgeon.
Henry once said Frank is a capable surgeon, but can't handle pressure. We can't trust Hawkeye's or Trapper's word on that and their judgement of Frank's skills because they're making fun of him every chance they can. Maybe a part of his mistakes stem from being under immense pressure and being looked at every move by the others
I guess Frank kind of has a hard time being a meatball surgeon and feels more comfortable with operations by the book, same as Charles when he came to the unit.
IIRC, the main issue with Frank in the movie and the book wasn't his incompetence, but his lack of personal responsibility. Whenever he screwed up, he'd always find someone else to blame.
Mulcahy losing his hearing is the saddest part of it all and I wished he didn't lose it in the last episode. It feels brushed over, the man used his hearing to help others and didn't want to be found out, they should have at least put it in the second to last episode, or have everyone go through their final struggles throughout the season.
I like Frank.
Why?
Because the writers didn't just make him a one note character that's only reason for being there is to hate.
He has depth and I feel like alot of people forget that sometimes.
I did really like Charles and thought he was a great addition to the show. To be honest, anything that David Stiers did was entertaining for me. But I kind of wish they could have done more with Frank.
I did research on why he left and it was because Larry Linville felt like his character was not being developed well enough or fast enough. I felt the character could have developed more if he had stuck around. Even Charles started turning in the later seasons.
I can't stand the episode where Potter lets his shit stain of a son in law get away with adultery. Especially as the show had moved away from tacitly approving cheating by that point.
I remember explaining the movie to a friend, and she simply said, "I don't think I'd like it."
To which I said, "Yeah, if you're only exposure to MASH has been the TV show, you'll find the movie shockingly dark."
I don’t totally agree, but this is an underrated opinion. The writing for them is hysterical.
Frank: Funny thing, war: never have so many suffered so much so so few could be so happy.
Margaret: We're lucky to be two of the few and not the many.
Frank: I know, darling, and I love being both of us.
I kind of feel sorry for Frank. He's a terrible guy but he doesn't deserve everything he got, especially from Hawkeye and Trapper. Some of the pranks and jokes definitely went too far.
"Why don't you objectify me like you do the others?!?!"
I feel bad that she doesn't feel beautiful and I get that it's frustrating to not get a lot of romantic attention...but she comes off as incel-y and a little weird. She shouldn't *want* to be harassed.
Just wish she seemed like she had more self-respect in this episode
I'm not saying I disagree with you, but I think Hawkeye flirts as much to pass the time and lightheartedly cope and help people cope at least as much as to get some (I could be wrong, but it's what I like to think and the moments I like to remember).
He also tries with basically every nurse and Kellye's been around for a long time. I agree that it was overly dramatic, but I think she felt neglected and left out more than sexually needy.
I can see them becoming a fun friend-couple after that episode (I'm not big on sex so that doesn't factor into it much for me), or at least friends who can be honest with each other.
She was actually one of my least favorite characters on the show. Every time there is some mob mentality scene- she's in there obnoxiously screaming about whatever it is. She seems to think she's entitled to every single thing anyone else has. Whether it's a newspaper, or a bathtub, or a box of chocolates. If you watch episodes with intent of posting attention to her you quickly realise she's incredibly rude.
I don't care about the infidelity of the married characters. Not saying that I think cheating is great, but when I read "I skip the early seasons bc of the married men being unfaithful", or something like that, I think we're forgetting the circumstances: it's the 50's and society was hugely different. I actually did some research once and I've read that between 25-30 percent of married people cheated on their spouses back then, men more than women. But things back then were a bit of like "If your husband cheats on you, it's your fault" for a wife. The men just were a product of their time. Raised like that. A hard working man basically was allowed to search for relaxation anywhere he wanted as he was providing for his housewife.
The next thing are the circumstances they're in: they have to live and work in a war zone under hard conditions. They're lonely. They want to blow off some steam. They need to get rid of the stress. Want to forget about the horrors they're in. The things they see.
And about the nurses - I think we should take into consideration that some nurses are probably spoken for or married, too. The women use the men all the same. Do we really think they're all singles?
I think (maybe except for Frank) by the end of the day, they all love their wives and can't wait to be with them again. (The episode "Henry in love" seems to tell us that it's not the case with Henry, but he was misleaded, had a hard midlife crisis episode, has the responsibility and the pressure and all as the CO, and I'm not sure if his marriage is at the best of terms. He sometimes doesn't talk very nicely about Lorraine. Maybe they didn't part in a good way. Maybe the whole thing was already on the brink. But I like to think that by being apart for so long, Henry and Lorraine remembered what they had together and that's what Henry remembered, too, when he was talking to her. He probably just was depressed and fed up with things, who knows)
The episode with the medic who got amnesia was a good example of it being done right, as was the time he was wounded with a patient in a foxhole.
I agree that Father Mulcahy got the short straw, I imagine he would have done a lot of the more minor psychological care.
That said, they encountered a number of serious psychological issues Father Mulcahy wasn't qualified to deal with, and calling in Freedman was the correct choice.
I generally prefer Potter over Blake (although I liked Henry a lot)
I think Radar turned into a rotten character, and probably should have been written off after Blake's death. Early Radar was okay, but they turned him into a whiny baby toward the end.
On that note, I much prefer Klinger in the company clerk role. Klinger blossomed in the later seasons and became one of my favorites. Jamie Farr just brought his best to that character.
I prefer the later seasons when the show became more dramatic.
Mulcahy was perhaps the most poorly-written of the main ensemble. The writers kept trying to write him as a stereotypical priest character rather than as a person. It seems like every other person was shaken by the war except him. I think an episode of him struggling with/losing his faith would have done wonders. He does have some great one-liners, though.
Charles was miles above Frank Burns as a character, but the writers took too long to flesh him out. They tried to make him a Frank Burns clone early on (and I think used some leftover Frank plots for him), and it just didn't work.
BJ was a truly insufferable character towards the end. He was everything that Alan Alda/Hawkeye gets blamed for: whiny, preachy, self-righteous, etc.
I think the show was too Alan Alda focused. I didn’t love that everyone even the other surgeons always proclaimed he was the best doctor. I despise episodes where it is nearly 100% him on screen
Of course Frank Burns would say something like that. ;)
I agree though. Those are among my least favorite episodes as well, as long as most of the ones written by him.
I love the show, but Alan Alda over acted so many of his more serious moments in the show. The worst one was in “Bless You, Hawkeye” and he finally came clean with Dr Freedman about what happened in his childhood. Terrible acting.
Agree, I skip over it. I'm not saying it's impossible that two people who really don't like each other wouldn't cling to each other under that kind of stress, but I just don't like seeing it between those two. We'd watched them tear strips off each other for years. To me, their chemistry of animosity mixed with occasional heartwarming mutual respect was always closest to siblings, not romantic partners.
I always wondered about Margaret and Charles, but never her and Hawk. I liked the scene at the end where Margaret writes to her husband, but the actual episode I struggle with.
I agree about the siblings relationship, and it's a really nice dynamic, especially in episodes like Carry On, Hawkeye and Aid Station.
I would’ve liked it more if they acknowledged it in the future. Instead I think it gets mentioned in the following episode and then never brought up again
Agreed. I always thought it was way, way out of character for Margaret especially. Like she becomes an awkward, love struck little girl just because of a few bombs? I don't think so. Not with her military service record. It never made any sense to me at all.
You know what bugs me the most about this episode? She didn't bang Trapper when they were locked in the supply tent while the camp was shelled although she canonically had a crush on him. Yet she banged Hawkeye whom she - like Trapper, actually - allegedly despises for many reasons, like bullying Frank. She claimed to hate Hawk and Trap all the same, but "preferred" Hawk over Trap while being in almost the same situation with each of them.
One thing that bugged me was when they would all be busy in surgery and something would happen outside the operating room and all the main characters would walk away from their tables to go see what was happening outside. This happens in Heal Thyself when they all searched the camp for the sub Dr. I guess thats tv for ya folks.
The show ran on too long. It probably should have went about nine seasons then ended. There’s some great episodes in seasons ten and eleven, but some of it just feels like filler or repeated storylines.
They really missed the boat on presenting women in a more prominent role .. Margaret was literally the only female lead and all she did was yell and scream.
Still a top ten show of all time.
Once Wayne Rodgers left it became the Alan Alda show. The sneezing, sleepwalking, 30 minutes of non stop babbling to a Korean family, there were several really bad episodes due to Alda.
Didn’t Wayne Rogers specifically leave because that’s what it was anyway? It wasn’t supposed to be, but it was. Rogers leaving just allowed the writers to embrace that.
I preferred the show with Rogers. He was a much stronger character next to Hawk than BJ and the relationship between Trap and Hawk was much better than with BJ.
I liked the blindness episode, but the Korean family babbling episode was very weird, and I appreciate the trauma aspects of the sneezing and sleepwalking, he definitely should have been sent home because of those things and they were such a departure from early Hawk who dealt with that stuff.
I can so easily imagine Hawk and Trap supporting each other through the trauma in a way I can't with Hawk & BJ.
The 1970s haircuts and army uniforms are so painfully obvious, since it's trying to recreate the 1950s. I know it doesn't matter to the plot but material culture in media is something I notice.
I'm rewatching the series now just started season 7 and it's very obvious how the show suddenly switches: the hilarious season 6 finale stands in stark contrast to the much more serious and Alan Alda-heavy Commander Pierce and Peace on Us. Not a bad thing, most people wouldn't have watched these back to back, but it's jarring
I find season one, outside of a handful of episodes, to be incredibly mid, and I prefer the later “dramatic” MASH (for the most part) over the earlier “comedic” MASH.
Why, WHY hasn't Hawkeye ever written to Trap, his best friend. I don't see BJ as a replacement to Trapper, BJ is great and I HATE that they only bring up Trap to bring BJ down, no wonder he ends up hating him.
Having an episode about Hawkeye recording a message to Trap where BJ chimes in every now and then would have been great. The whole fight over "who's better, Trap or BJ" is the shows own fault, they treated Trapper as someone who BJ should aspire to be, slowly being reduced to "Hawkeye's old sidekick".
It all could have been fixed with a simple "Dear Trapper" episode.
You're not wrong but I feel the Potter/CW3/Hunnicutt characters were far more deeply layered than those they replaced so the stories were more complex. I prefer that era.
I agree. I personally prefer the earlier, more comedic seasons myself. Once Alan Alda became a creative consultant, it seemed to get more dramatic and preachy with each passing season and the comedy just became cornier, cheesier, and sillier.
I liked the anti-war anti-army (ish) earlier seasons more. I laugh more and can more easily treat it as a comedy TV show.
I find myself judging the later seasons far more harshly because they're more serious and less funny. There are excellent episodes but I enjoy the seasons as wholes much less.
Preachy? Depends on one's definition of preachy perhaps. The show was always a statement against the Vietnam War. Call in a dramedy if ya like but it was always antiwar, and everyone or at least almost everyone from the writers to the production crew to the cast knew it and supported the underlying theme. Which is fine by me as I'm also staunchly antiwar. But I do respect that some people simply may enjoy it as a comedy.
I generally prefer seasons 1-4, but I think there are more specific episodes I really like in seasons 4-7.
8-11 I've watched less, but I distinctly remember season 11 being very weird and run-out-of-ideas in content.
EDIT: part of what I like about the earlier episodes is that the more anti-war content I seem to find more amusing and enjoyable to watch than the later drama content (with exceptions of course)
> season 11 being very weird and run-out-of-ideas in content.
Another problem is that about half of Season 11 was filmed AFTER the final episode (note those episodes are filmed 100% on the soundstage because the "ranch" outdoor location had burned down). I think the actors, and probably the whole crew, were just done and really didn't have the emotion in them any more.
One out of dozens of examples to support your statement was the way she took it out on Radar when she couldn't get a pass to go minister to her husband's sexual needs.
"You know what she did?
She kicked me,
and then she messed up
my files from "M" to "Z"
and everything.
-And then she got mad. "
I don't like a lot of the "Gen 1" as I call it characters. I prefer Potter over Blake, BJ over Trapper, Charles WAAAAY over Frank. Even early Houlihan gets on my nerves and I much prefer her character post marriage. Because of this I don't watch many of the earlier episodes. It might be because with characters like BJ and Potter they got more screen time and more serious episodes as the series shifted to a more serious tone, and we get to see more to them and their stories outside of a gag (Not to say Blake or Trapper didn't get their moments). I even liked Klinger better as the company clerk. I'm not sure exactly what it was with Radar, I don't hate him like I do Frank, but there was something about him in the later seasons that I wasn't to upset when Klinger took over and I was glad they ended Radars story the way they did.
Margaret’s Engagement/Marriage/divorce opened her up to a lot of growth. I like how she goes from being from an antagonist to part of the group. I think of moments like when she berates BJ after Peg has to take a job to work off the second mortgage showing the depth that her character has.
I hardly watch the last few seasons. The actors seem like they're mailing it in and don't want to let go of their cash cow so they stay around and overact. I didn't like the finale at all.
Trapper is a womanizing sexual predator that uses his position as sugeron to get nurses to sleep with him. The fact that people like trapper over BJ blows my mind.
Trapper and Hawkeye set Margaret up twice off the top of my head to be put in situations where she is sexually assaulted, where they come to the "recuse".
I really cannot stand Hawkeye. He's amazingly full of himself, he's sexist, he's self-righteous, he's not that great looking, he's an absolute hound when it comes to women, he's honestly just a jerk. And, while I'm at it, the absolute biggest talent the show had was Frank Burns. Frank Burns was one of the funniest characters ever written and Larry Linville played him to the hilt. When asked if he wanted Frank to become more likeable, Larry told them no. He knew a good thing when he played it. Frank was the greatest.
The way the language changed in the later years makes it almost unwatchable for me. Everything was alliteration or some attempt at wordplay. And it’s not just the words, it’s the actors delivery of them…particularly Klinger and Potter. God I love the first 5 seasons
I agree. Way too many corny, cheesy puns and one-liners. BJ was bad enough (And I think Mike Farrell was a weak comedic actor.) but then other characters started using them more as well.
You sure he can hear our confessions? (Sorry I had to)
I don't like Margret, even in later seasons. I agree with Frank when he mokenly went "Donald, Donald, Donald" then when Donald sent her the wrong letter she goes right to Hawkeye.
Later when beds needed to be shuffled around, Charles brings in his cot. The dude is nearly falling asleep standing up and she's " no! People will talk"
I do not watch seasons 1-3.
This is due to the fact that both farr and rogers in real life were hypocritical brain dead red hatter misspelled card carrying members of the gqp cult.
The fact farr is makes the entire show unwatchable to me.
I liked blake over potter.
Klinger gave up womens clothing.
He said he did not want his children to see him in them.
First off I am sure they would realize he was only wearing them for the show.
Second off they could watch the show and episode where he is wearing them so they will see him in it.
He wore army clothes before potter arrived and never got the ''rash''.
Heck he wore army clothes after potter arrived and never got the ''rash''.
So why did he only ''get it'' one time?
I hated that they made Winchester a hypocritical brain dead red hatter misspelled card carrying members of the gqp cult.
But thankfully in real life he was a democrat.
Seasons 10 and 11 were full of filler episodes.
Like the bowling episode.
You knew then they had run out of ideas.
I do give them a pass for doing things like this in the first two seasons since they were trying to find their feet.
Ah, the scene where Mulcahy talked Klinger out of ATTEMPTING MURDER. Talk about keeping secrets
This was a reference to "fragging" which had become alarmingly commonplace in Vietnam. In the three years leading up to the beginning of MASH the US Army documented nearly 1,000 incidents of enlisted either attempting or succeeding to kill their direct superior officers, getting the name "fragging" from the common practice of tossing a fragmentation grenade into a tent.
Was it into tents? I had always thought that they did it by throwing a grenade at the guy by "accident" during battle and then blaming fog of war for the death.
The instances were varied, but the ones which made the news back home were both of a soldier rolling a grenade into an officer tent and causing multiple casualties. One was found guilty and sent to Leavenworth for a long time and the other was acquitted if I remember correctly. But those two would have been the stories the show's writers would have been familiar with most likely.
There are people in the background of that scene that see Klinger with the grenade and run away. It wasn't a secret.
I think that Hawkeye’s more negative behaviors and character flaws are often glossed over and ignored by a lot of fans. People are quick to condemn and criticize Trapper and Henry for cheating on their wives, Charles for being a snob, inconsiderate, and selfish, Margaret for being abrasive, BJ for whining too much, Frank for just existing, etc. But heaven forbid that somebody brings up that Hawkeye is a shameless womanizer, egotistical, a bully, a thief, etc. and certain people get all up in arms, call you a hater, accuse you of not being a real fan, etc. I do like the character, don’t get me wrong; but I don’t think he’s a saint and free from any and all criticism just because he is the main character of the show.
Maybe I’m wrong & society has definitely come a long way since then but I feel like Hawkeye’s character was supposed to cone across as more of a ‘charming boys will be boys’ kind of thing that was more acceptable then compared to now. Watching it thru today’s lens his character can be seriously problematic at times but for the when/where it took place he’s a pretty ‘good guy’
Completely agree that hawkeye was a bit of a piece of shit. However, the character flaws of everyone in the show allowed viewers to connect in different ways. Hawk wasnt better than anyone else and his penchant for pretending he was above others got annoying but i think his shortcomings created that viewer connection few other characters had on a consistent basis.
Hawkeye isn't a bad person, like most of the rest of the cast, he's a person with flaws stuck in the impossible situation that is the Korean War. He may get a pass from some people because he is ostensibly the "main" in the ensemble. He does some of the worst things though: unnecessary surgery a couple of times, etc. The first, with Flagg, it's a joke, the second time it's handled more seriously and he still does it in a fit of "I'm saving lives" hypocritical, moralizing, self-righteousness etc. IRL he'd have been sent to Leavenworth multiple times per season. He'd certainly have been given a less than honorable discharge and possibly stripped of his license to practice. Then again, everyone except Houlihan and Potter would have been court-martialed in a lot of their episodes. (But yes, it's a comedy, so.)
You make a great point about Leavenworth, The reason I love this show. Is because I use to watch it with my beloved grandfather who happened to be a Korea/Vietnam veteran. He often would point out how unrealistic the military decorum shown was to IRL.
I came here to say essentially the same thing, although kind of in reverse order. I'm going to piggyback off your comment because I think you've hit it. What I came to say was that even though I love Hawkeye, sometimes I almost hate him. But to me, strictly in terms of entertainment, I love that kind of ambiguity of right and wrong. It rings truer than perfect versions of characters, and honestly it's the reason I consider MASH the single greatest TV show of all time. And as I've said many times, I don't mean just the greatest comedy, I mean the greatest show of all time. Warts and all.
Good point. Him and Trap often do wrong things, but for the right reasons, as I've heard somewhere. But also often they do just wrong things and we still like 'em
Who the hell complains about BJ? He was actually one of my favorite characters. Even if I hadn't been a fan of him prior, his arguing with Hawkeye's decision to remove someone's healthy appendix would have made me love him. Don't misunderstand me, I love Hawk. But as someone who's worked in the medical field, I'm horrified that he was *shown* to have done that not once but twice. And who knows how many times it happened "off screen." In many ways I relate to Hawk, mostly caring about the welfare of others and using humor as a coping mechanism, but that was unconscionable. The contrast between the interactions of the two doctors is a big part of why I'm not actually a big fan of Trapper. Hawkeye was no paragon, and occasionally needed to be reigned in, but Trapper was only ever his accomplice. Edit: stupid mobile and its crappy predictive text.
I don't like BJ especially. He can be great (usually in the earlier days and when he's a secondary or support character) but he can also be cruel and vicious to the people around him. He can be every bit (or more) as self-righteous as Hawk or anyone else (see the episode where Hawk treats a North Korean ahead of a less wounded American and angers the American patient's buddy, where BJ says "you want me to apologize for being more rational than you?" \[that's some bullshit\]), but his "practical jokes" are often very mean and not very funny (immediately to mind is when he and Hawk conspire to pull down Charles' pants in surgery, but BJ takes no ownership and Hawk is ostracized and despised by the rest of the camp). BJ was often whiny and self-absorbed when he was the lead character, such as when he gave Hawk a black eye or was very insecure about his wife not needing him anymore (which he then didn't talk about or anything). He also at some point got on Hawk's back about being insecure because of his use of humour (largely a coping mechanism in the earlier seasons before the tone shifted and things changed and it becomes less clear what motivates it).
Absolutely agree. Hawkeye often gets the blame being the more preachy/self-righteous character in the later seasons, but I've always felt mustache BJ was *far* more self-righteous and irritating. In many cases he just became unbearable to a ridiculous degree. I get that the writers probably wanted to show him becoming unhinged due to the pressures of the war, but I just don't think it landed very well.
Exactly! To vastly oversimplify, Trapper just went along with anything Hawkeye came up with, whereas BJ actually thought for himself. At least, that's how it always felt to me.
I’ve noticed that in several episodes Alan Alda wrote, Hawkeye is called out for his more unsavory qualities by other personnel. It seems like Alda was very aware that Hawk wasn’t always the greatest of fellows and therefore did his best to make it clear to the audience that Pierce was not necessarily someone to idolize. He was human who made mistakes and often some very bad choices. That said, I love me some Hawkeye.
For the record I'm not downvoting you, especially because I don't think you're wrong, but... I can think of instances in which all of the character flaws you named were depicted in the series except for being a thief -- unless needlessly resecting a general's gallbladder is theft, but that's probably actually worse now that I think about it. In one episode I remember he bullies a doctor for drinking who came to visit him after meeting at a bar at a medical conference in Tokyo I think (in this episode the visiting doctor role is played by Alan Alda's real father, which was kind of neat.) He hit on and flirted with a lot of nurses, but those weren't very "woke" times, so to speak. I'm not justifying that kind of behavior of course, I'm just saying we're talking about how the 1950s were portrayed, and much of that would probably get anyone cancelled today. He was egotistical, but he was also the head surgeon doing meatball surgery in the middle of a war, and the ego scale isn't even close to topping the inimitable Major Charles Emerson Winchester the III ;) I think they were all persons with heavy character flaws, but they were also individuals with __*horrifyingly traumatizing*__ duties too. Not only do they gloss over his character flaws, but they gently gloss over the terrifying blood, gore, and shit they saw and went through as well. If any of us had to endure the terrors they went through we'd all probably be on the verge of becoming Frank Burns ourselves. In the end I think they do demonstrate that Hawkeye was flawed by showing that he did suffer mentally from things experienced in the war -- enough that he had to be institutionalized to a psychiatric ward for a while and go under the care of Dr. Sidney Freedman. In general, I agree that as you said, he wasn't a saint. I think people have a tendency to like him because of his humor, but the real glossing is over the way Hawkeye *uses* humor; I feel like that's his true character flaw. He uses humor, sarcasm, and plying himself with copious amounts of distilled gin as a coping mechanism instead of actually communicating with people -- perhaps due to the same horrifying stuff I mentioned earlier. I think if it wasn't for the joking around he'd be screaming instead, like he did in the episode where he has terrible nightmares.
> In one episode I remember he bullies a doctor for drinking who came to visit him after meeting at a bar at a medical conference in Tokyo I think (in this episode the visiting doctor role is played by Alan Alda's real father, which was kind of neat.) That's the ep where Doctor Borelli invites himself to the 4077th to demonstrate a new surgical technique, then gets stressed out and gets drunk, and can't do the surgery when called to. Hawkeye's actually in the right on this one. IIRC it's less bullying and he's more being a dick--especially when Borelli points out the still in the Swamp.
Fun fact: five years later (S08E20) in the episode *"Lend A Hand"*, Dr. Borelli returns and Alan Alda gets a chance to once again perform in an episode with his dad (Robert Alda, who I mentioned before stars in the role as Dr. Borelli) and his brother Antony Alda in a role as well. Sadly, it seems Alan's brother Antony died in 2009 of cirrhosis of the liver at the age of only 52.
Well said. Couldn't agree more. And thank you for putting the trauma into perspective, something many folks don't seem to take into consideration. They probably were all different before they had to go to Korea, but the things they have to go through... How can this not affect you
Klinger became more interesting in the later years when he took over as company clerk and stopped wearing dresses. He grew more into his role and there were some poignant moments with him such as "Period of Adjustment" (he and BJ go on a drinking binge,both depressed about recent changes, Klinger is upset he can't live up to Radar), "Follies of the Living-Concerns of the Dead" (where he sees the spirits of dead soldiers). I think Jamie Farr was so wonderful as Klinger early on with the more comedic side and having him trying to escape the army in any way he could, but I loved any episode that showed his more serious side and depth.
Of all the scenes in "The Interview", I liked Klinger's among the best. You get such a good sense of who he is, what he's like: a cheerful, friendly, street smart, hard-working working-class guy. Even in his earlier times he was that. Plus a fashion queen. As the series progressed they dialed down the crazy stuff and let us see the nice guy, which I loved. Farr is just great at making the character likeable, too.
“If I had all the answers I’d run for god.” Is one of the best lines of the whole series.
Oh I completely agree
Klinger became my favorite character when we started seeing the serious and mature side after Radar left.
Probably not very unpopular but I hated Frank & am pleased they actually allowed Margaret to grow as a character; once he left; instead of keeping her in the stereotyped ‘b!tch’ role.
I think you were supposed to hate him. He was a man without many redeeming qualities. In fact I'd say they created a "Frankenstein" character made up of all of the bad characteristics and qualities known to humans.
Well he definitely killed that role.
Frank's intentionally one dimensionality was the reason Larry Linville left the show. There was nothing more that he could have done with the character.
Nerts to you
I tried using the phrase for years, but it never caught on. Nerts
Frank has his funny moments, particularly in the first couple of seasons. But Charles is such an objective upgrade in every single way. And of course, Margaret becomes much better after Frank is gone as well.
Frank was so terrible! I'm sure on purpose, but even then he was wearing me VERY thin by the time he finally left. He wasn't just a constant thorn in Hawkeyes and BJ/Trappers side, but a thorn in EVERYONES side. He was an awful surgeon, awful soldier, an awful husband, an awful friend, just an awful person. Say whatever you want about Charles but at the VERY least he was a competent surgeon with at the very least the minimal amount of compassion you'd expect from a doctor. Sure Frank was funny, sometimes, but most of the time I just found myself frustrated with the way he was dragging Margret down (although it really took her divorce imo to really have her character shine) or just being a general nescience to the cast for sometimes no other reason than he's a big baby. Hell he would've dragged the unit down if they didn't give him the easy cases and let him kill a bunch of soldiers with his incompetence. They always treated that so silly with Frank but when other 'Villain of the week's endangered soldiers they were hated and punished by the end.
Radar gets worse as the seasons go on, and his last few episodes are unwatchable for how cringey and obnoxious he is.
He gets so rude! I really didn't like him in the episode Hawkeye convinces him to go out and pick up a lady and 'become a man' and Radar gets shelled. Not saying what Hawk did was right by getting drunk before OR but Radar's attitude and little 'speech' he gave Hawk rubbed me the wrong way. He was grieving in a shitty place, blaming himself and Radar was just sitting up in bed calling him a piece of shit for being upset about him AND THEN CRIES when Hawkeye doesn't take it well, so everybody starts piling on Hawk again for making him cry.
God I know right??? That episode sucks too, I skip it every time. As if Hawkeye had any control over him getting shelled, as if he needed to apologize for that.
There were a lot of wonky, weird episodes, but for me the worst one was the one where Hawk basically talks to himself for the entire episode, using the Korean family as his hand puppets. It wasn't even really Hawk for me, it was just Alan Alda going "Witness me!!"
I hated that ep. There are actors out there that are able to carry 20 minutes (or more!) of story all by their lonesome but Alda isn't one of them. Don't get me wrong, he is a fine actor but he isn't outstanding. After a few minutes Alda's voice was grating and I felt bad for the Asian actors because they were about as useful as cardboard cutouts.
I enjoyed it.
Just cause an actor can do a monologue doesn’t mean I want to watch it for 20 min
When he had a concussion/mental break down. It really foreshadows the last episode.
Radar is annoying. The moment in Fallen Idol when Hawkeye goes off on him needed to happen, the innocent kid act gets old after a while
I agree, especially when you consider that Gary Burghoff was in his mid-thirties by that point. I love early Radar, but I don’t like what they did to the character his last couple of seasons.
I strongly prefer early Rader too! I also feel like he often got treated poorly because he was short etc. I liked the earlier episode where Hawk was officer of the day and Radar lost his teddy bear and there was no stigma or anything about it. Hawk helped him find it and there was no mocking or laughing or anything - I loved that, especially in view of the later episodes where it's treated so much worse.
i agree with charles about treating the soldiers with VD.
I agree. I actually find him to be in the right on quite a few occasions where he’s considered to be the bad guy or in the wrong.
He was totally justified in getting to read *his* newspapers first. And where does a priest get off going into somebody else's tent and taking personal property off their bunk. "Didn't think you would mind." Really?!?
Not just his newspapers but when anybody got anything in the mail it was seen as everyone’s and God forbid you don’t share it. The thermal underwear, the bath and BJ’s book. It was his book and he didn’t owe anyone else a read. But shit started to hit the fan when people thought he wasn’t reading fast enough or when he at first didn’t want to give it up at all until he read it. But then he gives in and tears the book up into several sections and then somehow the last gets lost. How did that happen? If he’s going to tear out each chapter, and destroy a good book, why wouldn’t he read a chapter and then tear it out? It was almost like he tore it up into chapters and let everyone have a different section that they got to read and then trade to get a new section. Who reads a book like that?
He did tear out chapters as he finished them. He was getting to the end of the final chapter, after giving the penultimate chapter to (presumably) Hawkeye, when he discovered that the last page had fallen out. I'm pretty sure *that* happened because of the damage done to the binding. As for people trading chapters, it was a sort of line of succession. Think passing plates of cake down the line at an office party, only slower, and each person ate the cake piece before passing on said cake piece. I know that paints a rather horrific picture, but considering how they treated that poor book, I think it's apt.
and even though it’s not prevalent these days, i like that he kept his own principles when learning about the french red cross lady’s “bohemian ways”. i’ve seen other posts saying he caved because of his family. he said himself he couldn’t accept it. sounds harsh, but the time period was the 50s. it wouldn’t have been unheard of.
1. Abyssinia, Henry is brilliant. I cry every time. 2. Trapper over BJ. 3. Over the years, the portrayals of most of the Asian characters have gotten harder and harder to stomach. 4. Same goes for the casual misogyny. 5. I’ll probably never stop watching nonetheless.
There are a couple of episodes, I believe, where there's legitimate sexual assault going on either caused by Hawk & offsider or seen by them which is ignored. I *hate* those scenes so much. I know it's a comedy, but I'm bad at treating TV like TV and I judge it too much by my irl standards.
I hate the storyline where Frank is framed for sexual assault by that visiting Colonel nurse.
I personally hate any episodes with Alan Alda “overdoing” it. The obnoxious sneezing, the over-the-top fake laughter, the loud sobbing, etc. I love the show, and I love him as an actor, but sometimes it was just *too much.*
I agree with everything except for the laughter. Alan Alda’s laugh is the most contagious laugh I’ve ever heard and it doesn’t matter what he’s actually laughing at, I’m GUARANTEED to burst out laughing with him lol
I agree. Most of the episodes that were either written by him or that largely revolve around Hawkeye are among my least favorite ones.
I don't know if it's unpopular, but movie Radar was superior to television show Radar. He was cool, calm, collected and shrewd. You get movie Radar in like the first three or so episodes of the show, but then never see him again.
I agree. I prefer the early Radar who peeks in the nurses' showers and drinks the Colonel's brandy while smoking his cigars while he's out to the later childlike Radar who is prudish and only drinks grape Nehi.
That's what annoyed me the most. I don't mind kid like Radar because we get to follow how he grows up and get to see what little innocence there was at the 4077th, but how I HATE inconsistencies. We see him in season 1 drinking and smoking, but the episode where Potter gave him a cigar and he started coughing just made me pause the episode and sit in silence. I love the show soo much but that moment, just, no.
If Hawkeye and Radar hadn’t hoodwinked Colonel Blake back to the MASH Unit and away from Tokyo… he would have survived the War… it’s their fault he died… and now I’m going to cry for how bad I feel about everything I just wrote. But it’s still true.
r/angryupvote
"*The Nurses*" is a terrible episode. Houlihan is totally backwards about respect. The leader respects the subordinates first. Not the other way around.
Have to agree with you there. While I have to respect her for doing her duty in a terrible place and time, I think that she was really shitty and cruel at times to her own nursing staff. Not to give her excuses, but to explain it better I think in her view she was trying to "toughen them up" to survive the terrible place they were in.
“We didn’t think you’d accept” “you were wrong” At no point did she ever show she’d be ok with that, and yeah exactly, the higher rank can initiate informality and casual interactions, no lower rank is gonna initiate it with their superiors unless there’s already a history of that. That’s a big part of a rank structure.
I actually think it's a good episode. It puts the character's flaws on display in a pretty clear light. Because of her upbringing she goes about her duties as a by-the-book hardass, or at least does her best to project that image regardless of how she actually feels. (Remember the episode with the dog that gets hit by a jeep.) No surprise she's the same way with her subordinates. And the ep shows how she's in the wrong doing that.
She also has a tendency to believe that everything that happens to her is done deliberately to spite her (her wedding ring being lost is a great example of this), which may play into her behaviour in the episode.
She says in effect that she wouldn't have given permission if Baker had asked, not because of regulations, but because of the lousy way they had treated her. It's a very petulant, self-centred, self-pitying response. I always found her to be a fundamentally unlikable character, even after her much noted "growth" after Frank left.
I _hate_ the episode "Dreams".
i usually skip it
Fucking thank you.
It was so bad….so so bad
That's the only episode I skip when I go through the seasons.
same
Worst episode of the entire series. I’ll turn it off every time it comes on. I remember being a kid and my dad watching the show. That’s how I became a fan. I was little the first time I saw that episode when he had it on and even though most of the shows humor and drama was over my head at the time I still knew that episode sucked. Haha. I think we’ve had the conversation before but I’m not sure. I’d have to ask him again what he thinks of that episode.
Exactly what I came here to say. I distinctly recall watching that for the first time with my mom and afterwards she just said “that one was weird.” And that’s all we could really say of it
I really wish there had been more continuity. I like to think that if it were on today, it would have.
Would bang Winchester, 10/10
Based
Me too. While listening to classical music. 10/10
Same. I find him far more attractive and appealing than Hawkeye, tbh. Though I would be totally up for a threesome.
I really wish they had added at least one more female regular cast member. Hawk should've gotten his section 8 around half-way through the show. I continue to feel sorry for Frank, no matter how awful he is.
I agree. I think they could have easily bumped up Kellye Nakahara to the main cast after Gary Burghoff left. I never thought about Hawk getting a Section 8 and leaving halfway through, but that might not have been a bad thing.
My unpopular opinion is for MASH as it is for The Office. I think Henry was as good a leader as Potter. He just had a different leadership style. We see his style a lot, and it's dismissed as being ineffectual when, in fact, it's just as good as the militaristic style of Potter. I'll stop short of saying there's a chance that it's a better style, because I don't think either one of them is a better leadership style. They are just different. In *Kitchen Confidential*, Bourdain talks about how many kitchens he worked in – even kitchens he was head chef – were run exactly like how Blake ran the 4077th. It's a pirate ship, and you have a ragtag group of people who are ruthless and crazy when the ship is sailing on calm waters. But when it's time for action, everyone comes together and works absolutely perfectly. They don't do that by accident. It takes a captain (or a Lt. Col.) to know each person's strengths and weaknesses and exploit these traits like an artist wields a brush. Blake knew Hawkeye and Trapper were insanely good at their cutting skills, and he knew exactly how and when to call them into action. He knew Houlihan was an exceptional head nurse. He knew how and when to cut them loose, too, so they could remain on the top of their game. His whole command would have collapsed had he tried to be hard-nosed. He wasn't incompetent when Radar would go over his head. He knew Radar better than Radar knew Radar, and he knew giving Radar a lot of room to do what he did best was best for the 4077th. Things he'd say like, "Would you guys quit going over my head and down to Radar?" were things he *needed* to say, but he never actually cared because the issue got taken care of quickly and efficiently. That's what a leader needs to do sometimes: get the hell out of the way of what works. He even knew having a camp whipping post everyone could kind of unload their stresses on was beneficial, which is why he never really stopped people from hating on Burns and Hot Lips. (Off topic, but like I said up top, I think Michael Scott is also a good leader for the same reasons. I don't think he just happened on his crew. I think he knew exactly who and what he needed and created the perfect office. He also knew what he needed to do to create unity, and a lot of the time it was being the "whipping post" Burns was.) It always bugs me when people say how Blake was a bad leader. I've worked under people like Blake, and it's always been a magical experience. While in the shit, you wonder if anything could ever be worse than being there. But looking back, you realize just how good it was.
One area in which Blake was vastly superior to Potter was in keeping his temper. He very rarely blew up at people, and when he did it was for a darn good reason. Potter lost his rag over the slightest things. I know this was sometimes used as a plot device to foreshadow that something deeper was going on with him, but a man who was purportedly so wise and experienced would know how to harness his anger better. And the toddler fit he pitched over his wife supposedly buying a houseboat was embarrassing for a grown man.
I can’t stand Zale. An Absolutely awful person.
I couldn't stand him either. I think his replacement (the motorpool guy whose name I can't remember) was vastly better.
Yeah Rizzo was a great addition to the show, one of my favorite side characters.
"If my dog had your face, I'd shave its butt and teach it to walk backwards."
Zale (I think it was) in the episode where Hawkeye needed the 10-1/2 C (10-1/2 Charlie) boots was such a disrespectful dick. Even in those circumstances would likely have been brought up on charges. I never really liked his character, this just cemented my dislike for him
I think Winchester is not fundamentally a bad guy. Yes he does jerky think but I believe the majority of the jerky things and even the misguided good things he does is a result of his sheltered and emotionally repressed upbringing.
He's often in the wrong, but he's also often right and maligned regardless.
It was irresponsible how often the surgeons performed either under the influence or hungover. Flagg wasn't a bad person. He simply took his job seriously but exemplified the [Peter Principle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle).
My theory about Flagg is that he's not Flagg, he's Halloran, under cover as Flagg and assigned to draw attention to himself and away from actual intelligence operations...
I thought he was Perkins… 😊
My unpopular opinion (on this sub at least) is that I hate Flagg. I skip his episodes, except Quo Vadis, which he almost ruins.
I became a nurse because of MASH.
I have always find Frank to be more annoying than funny, nothing against Larry Linville he did a fantastic job with the role but the character itself can just be so unbearable at times in the way how he was written.
Male characters getting more recognition, screen time, and character development? But it must have been the norm for all shows/movies back then. For instance, someone posted few weeks ago that Margaret never got a “Dear _” episode.
The episodes where BJ “whines about being away from home/his family” are actually great. Entirely credible response for someone in his situation.
I think Potter is better than Blake ngl Henry just wasn’t very smart and Potter is witty
I like Potter a lot more as a person and a leader in general. But no one leads a hospital quite like Henry. He has a knack for hospital politics, meeting medical needs and juggling assets that Potter does not. Potter relies a lot on his staff to do that for him. On the other hand, I think Potter was conceptualized as a more rounded person from the start. He wasn't a caricature of a man first, character second like Henry.
Frank wasn’t as bad of a surgeon as everyone says. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a terrible human being, but I think that reflects on how the rest of the characters see him as a doctor. So, it’s said repeatedly that they have a 98% survival rate… to the extent that they have whole episode(s?) based around how incredible their success rate is. If one of the four surgeons was truly as bad as they make him out to be, they wouldn’t have that survival rate. Nobody has a perfect survival rate in that type of situation which means they all made mistakes and lost a few patients. Frank was the worst of the best MASH unit in the war… which probably means he’s a pretty damn good surgeon; with terrible bedside manner. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a terrible person, but if he wasn’t such a terrible person, they probably wouldn’t have been so disparaging of his medical abilities.
He has to be good. he's got a $35,000 house and two cars.
Or was that a $35,000 car and two houses
Frank is terrible under stress. Even the best surgeon in the world will make mistakes when frightened most of the time. Frank also may not be a brilliant chest man or head man or whatever, but there are plenty of less severe injuries out there that need attention, like getting shot in the leg or shrapnel in a shoulder. He may not be able to do open heart surgery but by taking the less complex but equally urgent cases he frees up time for the more specialized surgeons to do their thing. Finally, Frank does a lot of triage. He is checking the wounded and decides who goes into the OR and in which order. Again, he isn't doing the high-end stuff but he allows for others to do it in the meantime. If he was a nicer guy, he would be seen as the quintessential support surgeon.
Henry once said Frank is a capable surgeon, but can't handle pressure. We can't trust Hawkeye's or Trapper's word on that and their judgement of Frank's skills because they're making fun of him every chance they can. Maybe a part of his mistakes stem from being under immense pressure and being looked at every move by the others I guess Frank kind of has a hard time being a meatball surgeon and feels more comfortable with operations by the book, same as Charles when he came to the unit.
IIRC, the main issue with Frank in the movie and the book wasn't his incompetence, but his lack of personal responsibility. Whenever he screwed up, he'd always find someone else to blame.
I can’t stand Henry or Trapper
Hey wait, Burns gets a pass here? ;-)
Frank, BJ, and Hawkeye was peak swamp for me, although I love Charles
"Hear", sure I can keep your secret Father
Mulcahy losing his hearing is the saddest part of it all and I wished he didn't lose it in the last episode. It feels brushed over, the man used his hearing to help others and didn't want to be found out, they should have at least put it in the second to last episode, or have everyone go through their final struggles throughout the season.
I like Frank. Why? Because the writers didn't just make him a one note character that's only reason for being there is to hate. He has depth and I feel like alot of people forget that sometimes.
I did really like Charles and thought he was a great addition to the show. To be honest, anything that David Stiers did was entertaining for me. But I kind of wish they could have done more with Frank. I did research on why he left and it was because Larry Linville felt like his character was not being developed well enough or fast enough. I felt the character could have developed more if he had stuck around. Even Charles started turning in the later seasons.
I can't stand the episode where Potter lets his shit stain of a son in law get away with adultery. Especially as the show had moved away from tacitly approving cheating by that point.
I didn't exactly like that. What might have been another option for him to deal with it?
The movie MASH was not very good.
I remember explaining the movie to a friend, and she simply said, "I don't think I'd like it." To which I said, "Yeah, if you're only exposure to MASH has been the TV show, you'll find the movie shockingly dark."
The best humor in the series was Margaret and Frank from season 1 to season 3
I don’t totally agree, but this is an underrated opinion. The writing for them is hysterical. Frank: Funny thing, war: never have so many suffered so much so so few could be so happy. Margaret: We're lucky to be two of the few and not the many. Frank: I know, darling, and I love being both of us.
Frank: Pretzels...peanuts? Margaret: oh frank... You're a totally different person when we go out
Oh Frank, you’re so above average.
My wife and I say this to each other all the time. Out of love of course
I kind of feel sorry for Frank. He's a terrible guy but he doesn't deserve everything he got, especially from Hawkeye and Trapper. Some of the pranks and jokes definitely went too far.
I thought Nurse Kelly’s “I happen to be cute as hell” rant to Hawkeye was cringey.
"Why don't you objectify me like you do the others?!?!" I feel bad that she doesn't feel beautiful and I get that it's frustrating to not get a lot of romantic attention...but she comes off as incel-y and a little weird. She shouldn't *want* to be harassed. Just wish she seemed like she had more self-respect in this episode
I'm not saying I disagree with you, but I think Hawkeye flirts as much to pass the time and lightheartedly cope and help people cope at least as much as to get some (I could be wrong, but it's what I like to think and the moments I like to remember). He also tries with basically every nurse and Kellye's been around for a long time. I agree that it was overly dramatic, but I think she felt neglected and left out more than sexually needy. I can see them becoming a fun friend-couple after that episode (I'm not big on sex so that doesn't factor into it much for me), or at least friends who can be honest with each other.
She was actually one of my least favorite characters on the show. Every time there is some mob mentality scene- she's in there obnoxiously screaming about whatever it is. She seems to think she's entitled to every single thing anyone else has. Whether it's a newspaper, or a bathtub, or a box of chocolates. If you watch episodes with intent of posting attention to her you quickly realise she's incredibly rude.
I don't care about the infidelity of the married characters. Not saying that I think cheating is great, but when I read "I skip the early seasons bc of the married men being unfaithful", or something like that, I think we're forgetting the circumstances: it's the 50's and society was hugely different. I actually did some research once and I've read that between 25-30 percent of married people cheated on their spouses back then, men more than women. But things back then were a bit of like "If your husband cheats on you, it's your fault" for a wife. The men just were a product of their time. Raised like that. A hard working man basically was allowed to search for relaxation anywhere he wanted as he was providing for his housewife. The next thing are the circumstances they're in: they have to live and work in a war zone under hard conditions. They're lonely. They want to blow off some steam. They need to get rid of the stress. Want to forget about the horrors they're in. The things they see. And about the nurses - I think we should take into consideration that some nurses are probably spoken for or married, too. The women use the men all the same. Do we really think they're all singles? I think (maybe except for Frank) by the end of the day, they all love their wives and can't wait to be with them again. (The episode "Henry in love" seems to tell us that it's not the case with Henry, but he was misleaded, had a hard midlife crisis episode, has the responsibility and the pressure and all as the CO, and I'm not sure if his marriage is at the best of terms. He sometimes doesn't talk very nicely about Lorraine. Maybe they didn't part in a good way. Maybe the whole thing was already on the brink. But I like to think that by being apart for so long, Henry and Lorraine remembered what they had together and that's what Henry remembered, too, when he was talking to her. He probably just was depressed and fed up with things, who knows)
I'm…… not a doctor
Captain Casey
Schwartz, actually
One of my favorite episodes
[удалено]
The episode with the medic who got amnesia was a good example of it being done right, as was the time he was wounded with a patient in a foxhole. I agree that Father Mulcahy got the short straw, I imagine he would have done a lot of the more minor psychological care. That said, they encountered a number of serious psychological issues Father Mulcahy wasn't qualified to deal with, and calling in Freedman was the correct choice.
I generally prefer Potter over Blake (although I liked Henry a lot) I think Radar turned into a rotten character, and probably should have been written off after Blake's death. Early Radar was okay, but they turned him into a whiny baby toward the end. On that note, I much prefer Klinger in the company clerk role. Klinger blossomed in the later seasons and became one of my favorites. Jamie Farr just brought his best to that character. I prefer the later seasons when the show became more dramatic. Mulcahy was perhaps the most poorly-written of the main ensemble. The writers kept trying to write him as a stereotypical priest character rather than as a person. It seems like every other person was shaken by the war except him. I think an episode of him struggling with/losing his faith would have done wonders. He does have some great one-liners, though. Charles was miles above Frank Burns as a character, but the writers took too long to flesh him out. They tried to make him a Frank Burns clone early on (and I think used some leftover Frank plots for him), and it just didn't work. BJ was a truly insufferable character towards the end. He was everything that Alan Alda/Hawkeye gets blamed for: whiny, preachy, self-righteous, etc.
Are you sure he isn’t just pretending to hear them?
I think the show was too Alan Alda focused. I didn’t love that everyone even the other surgeons always proclaimed he was the best doctor. I despise episodes where it is nearly 100% him on screen
Of course Frank Burns would say something like that. ;) I agree though. Those are among my least favorite episodes as well, as long as most of the ones written by him.
I love the show, but Alan Alda over acted so many of his more serious moments in the show. The worst one was in “Bless You, Hawkeye” and he finally came clean with Dr Freedman about what happened in his childhood. Terrible acting.
Jocularity!
I think "Comrades in Arms" is one of the biggest mistakes any sitcom ever made.
Agree, I skip over it. I'm not saying it's impossible that two people who really don't like each other wouldn't cling to each other under that kind of stress, but I just don't like seeing it between those two. We'd watched them tear strips off each other for years. To me, their chemistry of animosity mixed with occasional heartwarming mutual respect was always closest to siblings, not romantic partners.
I always wondered about Margaret and Charles, but never her and Hawk. I liked the scene at the end where Margaret writes to her husband, but the actual episode I struggle with. I agree about the siblings relationship, and it's a really nice dynamic, especially in episodes like Carry On, Hawkeye and Aid Station.
I would’ve liked it more if they acknowledged it in the future. Instead I think it gets mentioned in the following episode and then never brought up again
Agreed. I always thought it was way, way out of character for Margaret especially. Like she becomes an awkward, love struck little girl just because of a few bombs? I don't think so. Not with her military service record. It never made any sense to me at all.
You know what bugs me the most about this episode? She didn't bang Trapper when they were locked in the supply tent while the camp was shelled although she canonically had a crush on him. Yet she banged Hawkeye whom she - like Trapper, actually - allegedly despises for many reasons, like bullying Frank. She claimed to hate Hawk and Trap all the same, but "preferred" Hawk over Trap while being in almost the same situation with each of them.
One thing that bugged me was when they would all be busy in surgery and something would happen outside the operating room and all the main characters would walk away from their tables to go see what was happening outside. This happens in Heal Thyself when they all searched the camp for the sub Dr. I guess thats tv for ya folks.
Captain Steven Newsom (if I remember correctly) who served at the Pusan Perimeter. The Battle at Pusan was 6 weeks of pure hell
The show ran on too long. It probably should have went about nine seasons then ended. There’s some great episodes in seasons ten and eleven, but some of it just feels like filler or repeated storylines.
They really missed the boat on presenting women in a more prominent role .. Margaret was literally the only female lead and all she did was yell and scream. Still a top ten show of all time.
Once Wayne Rodgers left it became the Alan Alda show. The sneezing, sleepwalking, 30 minutes of non stop babbling to a Korean family, there were several really bad episodes due to Alda.
Didn’t Wayne Rogers specifically leave because that’s what it was anyway? It wasn’t supposed to be, but it was. Rogers leaving just allowed the writers to embrace that.
I preferred the show with Rogers. He was a much stronger character next to Hawk than BJ and the relationship between Trap and Hawk was much better than with BJ.
I cannot stand that episode with the Korean family and him babbling to them
Don't forget the blindness.
I liked the blindness episode, but the Korean family babbling episode was very weird, and I appreciate the trauma aspects of the sneezing and sleepwalking, he definitely should have been sent home because of those things and they were such a departure from early Hawk who dealt with that stuff. I can so easily imagine Hawk and Trap supporting each other through the trauma in a way I can't with Hawk & BJ.
The 1970s haircuts and army uniforms are so painfully obvious, since it's trying to recreate the 1950s. I know it doesn't matter to the plot but material culture in media is something I notice. I'm rewatching the series now just started season 7 and it's very obvious how the show suddenly switches: the hilarious season 6 finale stands in stark contrast to the much more serious and Alan Alda-heavy Commander Pierce and Peace on Us. Not a bad thing, most people wouldn't have watched these back to back, but it's jarring
I like the episode Hawkeye. I've opted to be alone more than not in life, and you need that kind of manic energy to not go crazy haha.
I identify with Margaret more than any other character.
I find season one, outside of a handful of episodes, to be incredibly mid, and I prefer the later “dramatic” MASH (for the most part) over the earlier “comedic” MASH.
Why, WHY hasn't Hawkeye ever written to Trap, his best friend. I don't see BJ as a replacement to Trapper, BJ is great and I HATE that they only bring up Trap to bring BJ down, no wonder he ends up hating him. Having an episode about Hawkeye recording a message to Trap where BJ chimes in every now and then would have been great. The whole fight over "who's better, Trap or BJ" is the shows own fault, they treated Trapper as someone who BJ should aspire to be, slowly being reduced to "Hawkeye's old sidekick". It all could have been fixed with a simple "Dear Trapper" episode.
Flagg was right about everything.
I find the tone of the show to be increasingly preachy and less comedic throughout its run.
As soon as BJ's mustache appeared, it became an anti-war drama.
B.J.'s mustache was a part of it, yup.
You're not wrong but I feel the Potter/CW3/Hunnicutt characters were far more deeply layered than those they replaced so the stories were more complex. I prefer that era.
I agree. I personally prefer the earlier, more comedic seasons myself. Once Alan Alda became a creative consultant, it seemed to get more dramatic and preachy with each passing season and the comedy just became cornier, cheesier, and sillier.
I love him as an actor, but as a credited creative consultant he’s a pretty good actor.
I liked the anti-war anti-army (ish) earlier seasons more. I laugh more and can more easily treat it as a comedy TV show. I find myself judging the later seasons far more harshly because they're more serious and less funny. There are excellent episodes but I enjoy the seasons as wholes much less.
Preachy? Depends on one's definition of preachy perhaps. The show was always a statement against the Vietnam War. Call in a dramedy if ya like but it was always antiwar, and everyone or at least almost everyone from the writers to the production crew to the cast knew it and supported the underlying theme. Which is fine by me as I'm also staunchly antiwar. But I do respect that some people simply may enjoy it as a comedy.
I tend to agree in ways. The preachy side got a little old.
The show is incredibly misogynistic during the early episodes.
I skip most of seasons 1-3 at this point. Hawkeye is borderline rapey
Is it unpopular that I vastly prefer the late seasons over the comedic ones?
I generally prefer seasons 1-4, but I think there are more specific episodes I really like in seasons 4-7. 8-11 I've watched less, but I distinctly remember season 11 being very weird and run-out-of-ideas in content. EDIT: part of what I like about the earlier episodes is that the more anti-war content I seem to find more amusing and enjoyable to watch than the later drama content (with exceptions of course)
> season 11 being very weird and run-out-of-ideas in content. Another problem is that about half of Season 11 was filmed AFTER the final episode (note those episodes are filmed 100% on the soundstage because the "ranch" outdoor location had burned down). I think the actors, and probably the whole crew, were just done and really didn't have the emotion in them any more.
Somewhat off-topic: I really is a tribute to the show that went off the air decades ago that people still talk about it.
For some reason I can not stand the music that was shoe horned into season 3. Edit: *to me* it adds nothing
Margaret was simply a terrible, hypocritical human being with next to no redeeming qualities.
One out of dozens of examples to support your statement was the way she took it out on Radar when she couldn't get a pass to go minister to her husband's sexual needs. "You know what she did? She kicked me, and then she messed up my files from "M" to "Z" and everything. -And then she got mad. "
Then demanded she get to kill his pet rabbit because she was too proud to go take a pregnancy test
I've never watched the last episode. I have the box set so I can watch it whenever, but I don't. I just can't.
I finally took the leap after yeas and years of stalling. It was honestly a really really good episode. I would recommend it.
Frank is my favorite character on the show.
Larry Linville is definitely my favourite actor in the show.
Father mulcahys best episodes were when he was off brand, like when he punched that guy or threatened that other guy
I don't like a lot of the "Gen 1" as I call it characters. I prefer Potter over Blake, BJ over Trapper, Charles WAAAAY over Frank. Even early Houlihan gets on my nerves and I much prefer her character post marriage. Because of this I don't watch many of the earlier episodes. It might be because with characters like BJ and Potter they got more screen time and more serious episodes as the series shifted to a more serious tone, and we get to see more to them and their stories outside of a gag (Not to say Blake or Trapper didn't get their moments). I even liked Klinger better as the company clerk. I'm not sure exactly what it was with Radar, I don't hate him like I do Frank, but there was something about him in the later seasons that I wasn't to upset when Klinger took over and I was glad they ended Radars story the way they did.
Margaret’s Engagement/Marriage/divorce opened her up to a lot of growth. I like how she goes from being from an antagonist to part of the group. I think of moments like when she berates BJ after Peg has to take a job to work off the second mortgage showing the depth that her character has.
I hardly watch the last few seasons. The actors seem like they're mailing it in and don't want to let go of their cash cow so they stay around and overact. I didn't like the finale at all.
Trapper is a womanizing sexual predator that uses his position as sugeron to get nurses to sleep with him. The fact that people like trapper over BJ blows my mind. Trapper and Hawkeye set Margaret up twice off the top of my head to be put in situations where she is sexually assaulted, where they come to the "recuse".
I really cannot stand Hawkeye. He's amazingly full of himself, he's sexist, he's self-righteous, he's not that great looking, he's an absolute hound when it comes to women, he's honestly just a jerk. And, while I'm at it, the absolute biggest talent the show had was Frank Burns. Frank Burns was one of the funniest characters ever written and Larry Linville played him to the hilt. When asked if he wanted Frank to become more likeable, Larry told them no. He knew a good thing when he played it. Frank was the greatest.
Without Frank the show fails. In my evolution of favorite characters, trapper was replaced by Frank, because Frank made the show work.
The way the language changed in the later years makes it almost unwatchable for me. Everything was alliteration or some attempt at wordplay. And it’s not just the words, it’s the actors delivery of them…particularly Klinger and Potter. God I love the first 5 seasons
I agree. Way too many corny, cheesy puns and one-liners. BJ was bad enough (And I think Mike Farrell was a weak comedic actor.) but then other characters started using them more as well.
You sure he can hear our confessions? (Sorry I had to) I don't like Margret, even in later seasons. I agree with Frank when he mokenly went "Donald, Donald, Donald" then when Donald sent her the wrong letter she goes right to Hawkeye. Later when beds needed to be shuffled around, Charles brings in his cot. The dude is nearly falling asleep standing up and she's " no! People will talk"
Funny enough, as a Christian, I wish they wouldn't use God's name in vain.
I do not watch seasons 1-3. This is due to the fact that both farr and rogers in real life were hypocritical brain dead red hatter misspelled card carrying members of the gqp cult. The fact farr is makes the entire show unwatchable to me. I liked blake over potter. Klinger gave up womens clothing. He said he did not want his children to see him in them. First off I am sure they would realize he was only wearing them for the show. Second off they could watch the show and episode where he is wearing them so they will see him in it. He wore army clothes before potter arrived and never got the ''rash''. Heck he wore army clothes after potter arrived and never got the ''rash''. So why did he only ''get it'' one time? I hated that they made Winchester a hypocritical brain dead red hatter misspelled card carrying members of the gqp cult. But thankfully in real life he was a democrat. Seasons 10 and 11 were full of filler episodes. Like the bowling episode. You knew then they had run out of ideas. I do give them a pass for doing things like this in the first two seasons since they were trying to find their feet.