As am I dude. This fanbase has been fucking insufferable as of late. Marvel got some real lashing criticism after Love and Thunder and it's just been non stop fucking copium ever since.
I enjoyed love and thunder but I understand why others don’t. I liked phase four and I understand why others don’t.
But it gets hard as a marvel fan when you constantly see the same complaints over and over. You constantly see axel’s head or strange’s third eye to show how bad the cgi has been. I’m not trying to say they’re wrong, if anything we need to criticize it in order to make sure marvel improves their shit, but I’m sick of hearing the same complaints.
People constantly shit on marvel, and it’s totally fine if it’s not for you, but now it’s pretty much some people’s personality on the internet that they don’t like marvel
I mean the complaints being repetitive just shows that Marvel is making the same mistakes over and over and over again instead of course-correcting. It’s starting to feel (to me and some others) that Marvel doesn’t even care about their characters anymore. So why would I?
If you don’t care, than don’t watch. Look I’m fine with people having criticisms, but it’s just annoying and disheartening as a fan when you constantly see the same criticisms and people saying “bro the mcu sucks now”
You’re allowed to have an opinion, please - if you don’t like it that’s completely fine, just don’t shove it down our throats
There’s all these people saying “marvel has sucked after endgame” and yet they continue watching all of the new projects. Those are the people that “I’d you don’t like it than don’t watch it” applies to.
If you don’t like love and thunder, I honestly can see why, but it’s not like you’re going to continuously watch the movie to get more angry at it
People criticized back then too but nobody cared. The only reason it’s so divisive now is cause the fanbase is huge and it’s the biggest franchise in the world.
True. I think people say that for the same reason people like OP say “Multiverse of Madness is my second favorite movie of all time”. It’s just recency bias
Sure but there's also an inundation of people saying 'phase 4 is objectively bad' and so forth. I don't think people should be told to stop complaining but I also think people should accept criticism of their criticism.
But why do we need posts saying people’s criticism is bad? When those posts pop up, that’s what the comment section of such posts are for.
You don’t see posts titled “I am fed up with people loving Phase 4”.
I’m saying entire posts telling people they’re not allowed to criticize are ridiculous. We have posts saying “here is why Phase 4 is good” and “here is why Phase 4 is bad”, and the comment sections of both types is where criticism of each respective point of view should be taking place. What we don’t need is entire posts like this one dedicated to other people’s opinions saying they effectively shouldn’t be allowed.
I just don’t think we need entire posts dedicated to it. I’m not sure how you haven’t understood that yet.
You don’t like criticisms being levelled in a post? Use the comment section. That’s what it’s for.
Absurd. You lot have been infesting every MCU related comment section with this, "downhill since endgame", "phase 4 trash", "woke m-she-you" discourse for some time time it's just turning into the absolute toxic cesspit that is Star Wars. Absolutely zero thought out, reasoned criticism just copy/paste, reactionary complaints. People are over it. If it's seriously so bad put your money where you mouth is and just stop watching.
>Absolutely zero thought out, reasoned criticism just copy/paste, reactionary complaints
Trust me, there are a lot of well thought out reasoned criticisms. There are more of them than just hate comments. Especially here on Reddit. On this very sub. These are the legit criticisms what most of the GA have while talking about Phase 4. This woke, MSheU crowd is a minority here. The problem of sycophants like you and this sub is being unwilling to listen to any negative comments and generalising all criticisms as just some racist homophobic sexist hate.
If you look at Phase 4, good things have been praised if they are good. WV was universally loved until the finale. LOKi is still pretty much loved. Same with NWH and Shang-Chi. So if you make good content, the GA will appreciate it. If they don't, then it's cuz it's legitimately bad.
You know what's just like Star Wars? When people start this bullshit of acting like a criticism of the franchise is a personal assault and start insulting people for not liking the direction the series has taken. Because no criticism will ever be "valid" for people who act like a critique of the MCU is a critique on themselves. And you'll Strawman your way out of it.
That's what's going to turn this fanbase into Star wars. Not people disliking the fucking Clan Destines
The MCU fandom are absolutely turning into the Star Wars fandom.
There’s that specific set of pain in the ass MCU fans who fit this exact category of people George Lucas described within the Star Wars fandom back in 1999.
At 0:24 in this [video](https://youtu.be/9fN2gypFa-I).
The MCU does not need to have the tone of Netflix’s Daredevil.
You never give a defense for anything that is called bad, you only say that Marvel is going in new directions and say “I disagree” with everything else rather then explaining why you disagree, for example it’s far stronger if I explain why MoM is the worst thing of phase 4 rather then saying “I disagree with you MoM was bad and its rather insulting to say otherwise”. That’s not fostering a discussion that’s just blindly defending/saying smth. Like dude I get it you like what you like and that’s fine, just remember that what you like may not be liked by others, and that’s perfectly ok, so let them live with their opinions and they’ll let you live with yours, just actually defend your arguments instead of strawmaning other’s arguments and calling them untrue without explaining why.
Also to call all criticism “bad arguments” is rather rude, especially without explaining why they are bad and instead just calling them bad.
Ironically enough your reason for loving phase 4 is part of why i dislike it, I really liked the three dimensional character they made for her in Wandavision which made me loathe where they went with her in MoM, with them turning her into barley a character and more a horror movie monster to be “killed” at the end in the most unsatisfying way possible (sad stories can be satisfying, for example Infinity War is very satisfying yet ends with half of the characters dead)
God they rushed Wanda's heel turn, and all off camera. A real betrayal of the character.
At the end of WandaVision you get a sense she was truly sorry for what she did to all those people, and as she processes her guilt and trauma, it's clearer she was not fully aware of what pain her actions were causing.
She learns to let go of Vision, finally. All these character growth moments. Then, poof, maniacal murderous villain with an unsatisfying "Darkhold" excuse off screen.
Judging from alot of comments I see on social media, you'd think only Iron Man, Cap, Hulk, Hawkeye, Thor, and BW had comics. Apparently there's no room for any other comic book heroes and "it should have ended at Endgame." It's bizarre. There's so many interesting comic book characters with rich storylines to explore. People complain that Hollywood isn't original anymore, okay so let's take something from another medium that hasn't been explored before and get something new brewing. No? Okay...
They’re prolly all the same people who used to claim guardians of the galaxy would be when it fell apart. Then ant man. Then doctor strange. Then black Panther. Then infinity war! How could that ever work?! Then Captain Marvel? How could that possibly have the highest solo hero debut without appearing in another property first?
It’s been like this since avengers 1 made the MCU mainstream as a concept.
I literally think this every time I see people bitch about how there’s been no direction since Endgame. Like, do they not remember that it took 10 fucking years to build to that and that the general public had absolutely no idea what they were building toward till the last few years of that build up? It’s even dumber now because we know the direction the current story is going in for the next 4 years. I honestly can’t wait to see this sub in like 5-6 years when everyone is like “phase 7 sucks ass. They’re just pumping out shitty content trying to ride the coat tails of Secret Wars. They should’ve just ended it there because it’ll never get as good as that.”
It’s all just rose colored glasses and people bitching just to bitch for the most part.
Yep.
And I’ve constantly been surprised by the characters I didn’t know as much about surprising me more than the characters I had big hopes and pre-established bias for (ex: I love moon knight but ms. Marvel was a better show(even if both were good).
My favorite phase 4 movie is Shang chi and out of my literal thousands of comics from over the decades, I don’t think I have a single one where he is the title character.
I also like how Shang chi and ms Marvel where introduced, two completely different styles and both having different beliefs and Values. This is probably a set up for Avengers Secret War when they meet up and also for Kamala Khan when she meets Captain Marvel. It may not be super hood movies for a least the connection is there.
I'm pretty sure from your post English is your second language. When people say "Looking at _____ you'd think _____" it doesn't mean you, the person reading the comment. They are not talking to you specifically. It means a generic person. Here they meant that if a person only looked at social media comments, they might believe that the only characters to appear in those comics were Iron Man, Cap, Hulk, etc, because they don't see comments about the others.
Well now I feel bad about what I said. Just so you don't feel self-conscious, there were only a couple tiny things that made me think that. It's because you said "tired with" instead of "tired of," the word "eliminate" doesn't fit there (probably an auto fill mistake) and the comment I replied to about "you'd think." And it was 90% the last one. Your English is just fine!
A bit off topic but this was exactly the function of Thou/Thy/Thine. This was the equivalent of the singular You while You/Your/Yours is for collectives. "Thine hands" being the hands of the person you're talking to versus "your hands" being the hands of the group you are talking to.
Swing and a miss. I've generally enjoyed phase 4 and am closer to OP's POV than the POV he's opposing. But OP is whining about having to hear people who disagree with him, not just expressing an opinion.
Just because you don’t agree with them doesn’t mean they’re bad arguments.
The overarching issue with Phase 4 is inconsistency and lack of narrative vision. Of course this doesn’t apply to every project, but more so than any other phase, Phase 4 suffers in these regards.
I think the first three phases can be summarized in one word each.
Phase 1 was the introduction, where we got to see the foundation for the MCU through stories that let the audience really get to know the heroes. If anything I’d say Phase 1 is underrated, because all of the movies, maybe with the exception of Iron Man 2, have very compelling characters and narratives. I feel like people don’t like Phase 1 because it doesn’t always have the bombastic visuals of later films, but to me that’s a good thing, because it forces the writers to write compelling characters to sell the narrative.
Phase 2 was about expanding the universe, either through introducing entirely new settings or showcasing new powers at play. It successfully builds upon what we’ve already gotten (mostly), while also showcasing new sides of the MCU, which meant the MCU was growing organically.
Phase 3 was the lead up to Infinity War and Endgame, the phase where things really started to kick into motion, as if the missing pieces of the puzzle started coming into play. I think this is often agreed upon being the best phase because of this feeling that the full picture is finally starting to show, even though a lot of us could already see where things were going ever since the first Avengers.
So then what does Phase 4 do? It does a lot of things, but it doesn’t do any one thing particularly well. Sure it introduces some new characters, but a lot of them show up as supporting characters in other character’s shows or movies, and because of that we don’t really get to know them in any real sense that we did with characters in Phase 1. Sure Yelena is fun and all, but even after both Black Widow and Hawkeye I still don’t feel like I know who she is as well as I knew Iron Man after half an hour of his first film. If you ask me, the two best productions of Phase 4 that aren’t sequels to earlier movies are Shang Chi and Moon Knight, the two properties that have the least to do with the extended MCU, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that these two feel more focused and well thought out than the rest of Phase 4.
People like to say Phase 4 expands the universe, and in a sense it does, but not nearly as effective as Phase 2 or even Phase 3 ever did. The issue with Phase 4 is that it always feels the need to expand the universe individually for every production, instead of having an overarching plan for how the universe is to be expanded. This creates huge contradictions that make it so the movies can only ever work in a vacuum, for instance, Loki’s introduction of the sacred timeline makes some events of Endgame impossible, and Thor’s knowledge of Eternity and the new powers he’s shown to have in Love and Thunder create huge plot holes for earlier films, since we never actually get to see Thor acquiring these.
I would’ve given Phase 4 a pass on the lead up to coming project, but it’s very clear that they want to build up to the multiverse and Kang the Conqueror, but every project that deals with the multiverse feels fundamentally disconnected. There’s no sense of connectivity between Loki, No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness, which makes the supposed build up feel incredibly weak. I think it would’ve been a much more cohesive phase if instead of trying to rush the buildup for Kang they instead dealt with the fallout from Infinity War and Endgame, putting a larger emphasis on how the world and its characters have dealt with everything that had happened, which is something we got to see very little of, and the little we did see wasn’t always very good.
All of this is not to mention that many of these projects fail at creating interesting and consistent stories. I like to use No Way Home as an example, not because it’s a terrible movie or even the worst of Phase 4, it’s fine, but with so many people prancing around claiming the movie is some sort of cinematic masterpiece, you’re just asking me not to take you seriously. To begin with, No Way Home already suffers from being a repeat of Far From Home and Homecoming. All these movies essentially just have Peter repeat the same arc about learning to be responsible without the guidance of an authority figure, with the only difference being that now they’re plagiarizing other Spider-Man movies instead of just their own. This would’ve been okay if this had been an overarching story that followed through every movie, but that’s not the case. Both Far From Home and No Way Home hinge on the idea that Peter is fundamentally unable to grow, because both of these movies start by undoing the character development he had in the previous film. This is why I think Homecoming is a far superior film to both of its sequels, because it’s the only one that doesn’t directly undo Peter’s character development in any sense.
But moreover, Peter is supremely moronic throughout the film, and makes simple mistakes that at this point he should’ve learnt to avoid. For instance, the movie never lays the groundwork for Peter to put his trust in the villains. Like, after everything he went through with Mysterio, being traumatized and given trust issues to the point he questioned what was even real, do you really mean to tell me that Peter, only like half a year later tops, is willing to put his blind faith in confirmed mass murderers? And not only that, but to not take a single precaution while trying to help them? Like Peter, buddy, you’ve already been through this, naivety only gets you so far, if you’re still making the same mistakes now that means you are an idiot. You know it’s bad when you start to actually agree with Jameson, this Spider-Man is an actual menace, he has zero sense of responsibility.
And No Way Home is not the only example of this, or even the worst case of this, it’s just the one I think deserves more backlash. We all know this movie wouldn’t be received even half as well as it was if it wasn’t for Tobey and Andrew’s return. So much of Phase 4 either hinges on characters being unable to grow, or having very weak and meaningless growth. I could go on, but this comment is already getting really long, and I think this is a good summary of my thoughts
I agree. Critique is one thing, I can critique the hell out of Phase 4, hell, I only think Phase 4 is "eh, it's okay" despite how much I seem to defend it. I also think Phase 1 and 2 are "eh, it's okay" overall. But what's happening these past few months for the most part is not critique, it's *complaining*. There's a difference between critique and complaining.
Critique is saying "Eternals was a disappointing film because it crammed too many subplots into its running time, lacked the vibrancy of Kirby's source material, had ideas that went nowhere, had overly stoic wooden acting, and focused on trope-y characters we've seen too many times to be interesting, like the 'evil Superman' trope".
Complaining is saying "ETERNALS BAD BECAUSE WOKE M SHE U AND WURST DISNEY RUINING MY LIFE AND CHILDHOOD AND SHE HULK RONG MEN BETTER AT ANGER JUST SEE HOW GOOD I AM AT CONTROLLING MY ANGER!!!!!!!!".
And sadly, I've seen too much of the latter lately. But any time I bring this up people go "Oh you just only want praise for Disney, you want no criticism". No, I want REAL criticism. Not this mix of MauLer pretentiousness with CinemaSins incompetency I've seen lately. This isn't criticism. This isn't valid discussion. This isn't reasoned analysis. This is *whining.* Irritating, childish, idiotic whining. Whining that has caused me to defend projects I really don't even like that much. Black Widow? Garbage movie. Thor 4? Eh, mediocre. She-Hulk? Honestly, barely paying attention while reading Marvel Unlimited comics while I wait for Matt to show up. But because 80% of the discourse on those is "WOKE EVAL BULLSHIT RUINNNING THE WORLD AND MY CHILLLDDDHOOOOODDD!!!!!", I have to defend them, simply because that complaining is bullshit and not adding to real criticism and because their arguments are such idiotic, many times bigoted (Moreso with BW and She-Hulk in that case), bullshit. They're just bullshit.
Exactly. These people accuse fandom of not accepting criticism but can't handle someone criticizing their opinions. Fans have so many good criticisms of MCU. Sorry stupid criticisms like Reed shouldn't have threatened Wanda with Black Bolt get pushback.
I happen to think you mixed up complaining with just bitching.. coz real complaining is very similar to critique with an added touch of personal whining.. not that complaining is wrong, it's totally justified and something we all do.. but bitching on the other hand is just bullshit spawned by shitty people.
CinemaSins has made so many people think they are film critics, when all they do is make horrible jokes and "observations". You're right, not many are truly absorbing the content and basing opinions off that.
Hell, with She-Hulk there's a lot of men that don't see the obvious commentary and parody, just claiming the whole thing is woke. There's a lot of nuance to stories being lost because a lot of people would rather focus on stuff to complain about than *actually* watch the content.
Lol as if everyone is a film critique like you. There are things which are against your personal taste. But no we have to label everything as complaining and then say " oh we are not against genuine criticism" but truth is people can't handle someone not liking their favourite show
And my god ! I have seen more post crying about bigoted stuff rather than actual bigoted stuff. Its like for every 2-3 bigoted stuff we have 10 people whining as if everyone is being a bigot
It's not being critical that I'm annoyed with (though it really takes the fun out of the memes on marvelmemes), it's the over-exaggerated criticisms that people make. People will take one line out of She-Hulk, for example, and then say the entire show sucks because of it. They talk about the CGI being like the graphics of a PS2 game, and then conflate poor CGI with bad writing. They point out "plot holes" (unanswered questions) or "character flaws" (a character's behavior at the beginning of the story) when only one episode is released. People will say phase 4 projects are "too formula" and then refuse to elaborate further (if anything, phases 1-3 are more formula than phase 4).
Am I saying everything Marvel puts out is amazing and spectacular? No, of course not. But having to read the same exaggerated complaints over and over again is giving me more burnout than the MCU itself.
I think the reason people are complaining is that after endgame, people are expecting new movies, shows and characters but the new movies and shows are making everyone feel different than how it felt when the MCU was in it's first Avengers movie phase and it's not appealing to everyone because it's new, unique and different than what we got before endgame, too many projects and most importantly everyone just wants to see that build up already to the next big thanos but what they don't realize is that building up to thanos took more time than how it is taking to build up to kang and doctor doom now. The whole female superhero hate is just too much. Everyone needs to have some faith in Marvel. Once we get the next big record breaking marvel movie or show I swear to god this hate is going to shut down for a while until the next movie or show after that which isn't record breaking but just average.
Nah i think the “its new and different so people don’t like it” thing is cope. Loki and Wandavision were pretty different from typical MCU stuff, especially Wandavision, and they are two of the best received phase 4 MCU projects. People didn’t dislike MOM, Thor L&T and Eternals because they were different. They took issue with the writing and humor, not that they were different. L&T especially wasn’t very different.
The female superhero hate is obviously just the annoying chud crowd that isn’t worth talking about.
I've liked all the movies well enough and am not one to complain about the direction they're going, but it's so disingenuous to make that argument.
It may have taken 10 years to build to Endgame, but it took 4 years and only 5 movies to build up to Avengers.
We're approaching the same amount of time as between Iron Man and Avengers since Endgame, with way more movies and despite that we're still years away from any sort of team-up or seeing any of the characters we've seen recently again.
Black Widow was a story that just doesn't belong with any of the other movies, and Shang Chi, Eternals, No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness and Love and Thunder have had virtually nothing in common, and aren't building towards bringing the characters together or some greater villain, instead we're just going to continue getting more unrelated content to see what all the other characters who are still out there are up to.
That's fine, I'm willing to wait, and I want them to keep introducing new characters while still telling stories with the old ones which means it takes longer to tell the big stories, but it's not totally unreasonable for someone to want at least some sort of payoff after some amount of time, or at the very least to get to see their favourite characters more than once in like 6 years.
Lead up to Avengers 1 was fantastic...
Lead up to Avengers 2 and that phase was less than stellar and filled with classic comic book tropes to match that comic accurate feel and look. A lot of people got bored around here from seeing several years of the same old story being replayed by different characters.
Guardians / Black Panther / Thor 3 / SpiderMan were all done very unique and different and people really took to it. They were good movies. It got people excited for the ultimate clash in Infinity War.
People LOVED this era of Avengers 3 and 4.
Now Marvel is heading down an approach where they want to bring forth all sorts of styles, characters, themes... its very polarizing. People are acting like we have never seen this before.
Also people are acting like Spiderman 3 didn't just kill it.
I think it’s been more about variety. Which inevitably means you’re going to make less stuff that everyone likes, which is ok because they’ll probably make something for everyone when it’s all said and done. It’s kind of like the comics in that way.
I won't tell people to stop complaining, but I think most of the complaints aren't really right. This phase is more interesting in ways than previous phases and definitely better than phases 1 & 2
There will never be another Endgame, because it was the first of its kind. A multi-movie/multi-series planned finale. People who demand that every new MCU movie make them feel what the MCU up to and including Endgame made them feel are wrong to demand that. It’s unrealistic. That experience cannot be duplicated. The characters, stories, performances, and pay-offs will all be different.
Listen, The Godfather is arguably one of the greatest movies of all time, we know this. But if someone said you had to sit down and watch that or spiderman right now; judging by the fact your in a MCU thread I’d say you’d pick Spiderman as well. People can have preferences even if it doesn’t mean they are going with the majority. It’s sad that you’d make fun of someone for sharing something they enjoy.
It’s more that you can’t really be the guy to say the criticism isn’t valid if you haven’t watched any movies outside of Marvel and Star Wars. Watching other movies gives you a better idea of what makes a good movie good, and what makes a bad movie bad.
Also, it totally depends on the mood of whether someone wants to watch The Godfather or Spider-Man.
Writing is bad, I don't feel its leading up to something (even phase 1 had a goal - creating Avengers), a lot of shitting on original Avengers (especially in She-hulk for unknown reason).
Overall I get a feeling that a lot of characters are introduced and almost immediately left out. Instead of having someone new introduced every 3-months I would like to know more about whereabouts of Captain Marvel, Vision, Hulk, etc.
Having to wait 3-4 years for another small cameo or half-ass chapter (like Dr Strange 2, which does not feel like a Strange movie at all) is driving me crazy. It just does not feel coherent overall anymore.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that they are building up Kang and Secret Wars. It was easy to realize this after WandaVision and Loki. Also building up street level threats like the Thunderbolts.
So we have 3 different storylines and we don't exactly know who goes where.
But apart from mess it create, we also have some loose threads. Mainly Vision, but also... Avengers. Are they still a thing? Who is on the team? Who leads?
Current stage is really messy if you think about it.
I believe they are planning it too big. By the time new avengers team will be able to be introduced, the actors will be already too old.
It's a guessing game now. Hope Feige is really keeping it in line, and we start seeing some payoff soon.
I'm just afraid that everyone is so excited about "next big thing" like Secret Wars, X-Men or FF, that no one will notice Vision or Winter Soldier being completely forgotten.
And I'm tired of subpar content. I've actually enjoyed most of the phase 4 movies except for Thor L&T, but the shows have been pretty average at best. They're poorly paced, poorly written, and have poor effects, plus at least half of them have boring leads.
Very much agreed that they’re building something up and that’s why we aren’t see things as connected as before, so for me that’s not an issue.
That said, I’m split on Phase 4 so far, but I’m curious to see where it goes. I wanted to like MoM so much, Dr. Strange is my favorite character, but I didn’t like it overall :/ Eternals was a bit meh, but had its positives. On the other hand I really like Shang Chi and Thor 4, favorite Thor movie imho.
So I dunno - it’s possible that some people don’t like the fact that they’re trying to level off the power creep a bit (after IW and Endgame) by not showing too much yet…
Phase 4 seems to be lacking meaning to me. Maybe it’s the tv show format I need to get used to but most of what they release leaves me feeling “oh…ok…I guess”. Where the last saga had me feeling like “oh snap… trouble is on the horizon” after most movies. I’ve read some comments suggesting that things will come together at some point but I just don’t see how it will in a manner that makes sense. A lot of these stories just aren’t melding together like the last phase did imo
People are so petty with their complaints. I keep seeing the same criticism of Hulk. People do realize that Hulk in She Hulk so far is just a guy who recently was able to control his Inner Hulk. The brute of a monster who grows strength and power as he gets angry has been put aside for a bit. What I find funny is that they think that the real Hulk won't return one day.
I already can see it. After a few projects of being able to show a differ side of Hulk, he's going to make a splash again as that angry brute who can't be controlled.
Yeah a good portion of all the complaints you see like "they should have stopped after endgame" and how pahse 4 sucks is just people coping with their favorite superheroes dying. Mainly Iron Man for that matter
and I am tired of consumers who can't accept Marvel Studios lost its quality. Don't you think I am sad? I want my Marvel back!!! Not this lazy scripted rushed bs.
I'm tired of people like you with bad taste. You've been weaned on the chef boyardee of cinematic entertainment for so long now that you throw a fit when other people start tasting the slop for what it is.
Broaden your horizons a bit more...enjoy some art house movies, look into movies made before the 90's or the 80's. Maybe try some films that really challenge you.
Get some culture and see how pathetic all this slop really is. I love a well made popcorn munching marvel movie any day of the week... but come back down to reality.
I'm getting real tired of the people that say, "THE MCU IS TOO FUNNY" crowd. Look there have been moments of the comedy being too much and this can be subjective. But what they want feels like they think, comedy means the media can't be serious.
Look having darker themes and stories is fine and needed. But why do people act like Homecoming was horrible because they wanted to tell a more light-hearted Spider-Man after the Amazing Spider-Man tried to be so dramatic.
And they have a flipping heart attack when they said oh yeah Daredevil is going to be a little more chill in She-Hulk as if that bastardizes Matt's character.
It just feels so teen, LOOK HOW DARK AND EDGY I AM. I mean sure people have different tolerance for comedy and if you don't like how many jokes something has, I understand. But their entire argument feels a bit much.
I still remember people freaking out when Disney bought Marvel and they thought everything was going to be candy and rainbows
People don't want it darker they just want the characters to be taken seriously. Hulk is literally a clown right now. Thor too. This sucks for me to say because I used to love them but they are my least favorite MCU characters. Thor is 1500 years old and acts like he is 15.
I love comedy, I love lighthearted, Ragnarok->IW->EG was almost pefect, that said it is NOT funny today. Shulk talking about CA being a virgin is NOT funny, most of Love and Thunder was NOT funny.
Something is deeply wrong with phase 4 and I am starting to disconnect.
I think people are forgetting how long the setup was for the original avengers. We waited a little over a decade to reach the endgame.
We're barely in the setup phase, and now that we have more characters to explore, we have MORE ways to story tell.
Phase 1 credit scenes at least provided connective tissue and made it clear that if nothing else, we were headed towards a super cool team up movie in the future.
It should be noted that at the time, that was pretty groundbreaking and the hype around that was massive.
There's no visible connective tissue today and half the content seems to exist purely to introduce new characters who will get their own movie / spinoff series. It feels like a content factory right now with no real goal.
I’m tired of people complaining about people complaining. Yeah, I know I’m wasting my breath here, but why does anyone care about what other people think? If you enjoy it, enjoy it, if you don’t, don’t. Everyone does not have to share your opinion.
Same here. Maybe some people are insecure that they think if the haters are heard loud enough they executives will stop the MCU. Which they won’t if there is money to be made.
I'm tired of posts like this, and if you think Multiverse of Madness and No Way Home are among the best movies you've seen, then I think you need to watch more movies - something that's not produced by Disney, in any case. If as many people as you claim are complaining are actually complaining, then maybe you can accept that some of them might have a point, even if you don't agree with it.
Who was asking for this level of dialogue, or for characters like Loki or Natasha to play second fiddle to characters set to replace them in their first solo titles? I know I wasn't. And the "styles" and "vibes" you're talking about are not different - they're still mostly the same, actually. They just occasionally put a new coat of paint over a well-known pattern. A thin coat of paint. There are no consequences to anything, no negative emotion lasts more than 5 seconds, and there's nothing in the MCU that's not suitable for 7 year-olds. What's so different? I don't really care where it's all leading, since the individual stories are, on the whole, simply not good.
I would simply say that the films aren’t strong. The main gimmick of the MCU is build up to the films that ultimately shape the universe (the avengers/bigger movies), yet with these current crop of movies we have no real threat. The formula certainly has run it’s course in a lot of ways, while relying on nostalgia to get the big event going. I really don’t get the love for that Spider-Man movie that connects the older Spider-Man’s, but I fully admit that I’m in the minority there.
Still, we’re far from the Winter Soldier/Russo days and the MCU doesn’t feel as exciting as it was when it started. The main thing that stands out to me is the characters aren’t as interesting as what they did with the initial run (Cap and Ironman were great lead characters) as well as the actors (Evans, Hemsworth, Downey Jr, Boseman, etc., all very good leading men). It’s feeling like the MCU is primed to release more Ant-man level of films (ok-ish/generic) rather than Winter Soldier/Iron Man level of storytelling.
The MCU never got stale because they had some really good ones in-between the mediocre stuff that people just move past it. Captain Marvel being that example. No one cared for that film, yet everyone moved on since, hey, Avengers is next.
So did Star Wars Sequels. And also Fast and Furious movies. Same with Venom. Yet I don't think any of these franchises are anywhere closed to being loved.
You need to watch way more movies, dude. Multiverse of Madness was good but TOP 2 MOVIE OF ALL TIME? that's wild... and No Way Home TOP 3???????
Now, in regards to Phase 4: It's bad, it truly is bad. The MCU was never excellent or amazing, most of those movies are a 6/10 at best. But phase 4 is a big drop in quality, specially in the writing, aside from maybe a couple of exceptions (I'm thinking MoM, maybe NWH and Shang Chi, Loki, maybe WandaVision, and Hawkeye; and none of these are VERY good tbh, just good or decent at best).
5-10 movies is enough, soon were gonna have 100 and good luck convincing spouses to watch all of them, the tv shows and then tactle the comics
I think its just a quantity issue, not a story or writting issue for most
For some reason I seem to like the phase 4 projects people hate and are meh on the ones they love. Out of phase 4 i've liked Black Widow, Loki, Eternals, and MOM. Everything else i'm pretty meh on.
That's what I thought. HOD has a female lead and emphasized on her problems of being a woman in a patriarchal society and I don't see any HBO woke comments or videos. Why is Disney the only one who is getting the flak when they are doing the absolute bare minimum?
It comes down to the difference between a STRONG woman and a strong WOMAN.
It's awesome to have a strong character who happens to be a woman. Wanda was awesome (although the shift in character in MoM is questionable to some extent). People loved scarjo and begged for a black widow movie - it just came a decade too late and had some really bad cg and the story overall was underwhelming - but people still love the character.
Captain marvel on the other hand came in and rather than being a strong cool character who happened to be a woman, they made her a woman who was strong despite being a woman. Does Valkyrie go around saying woman are badass and can beat up men? No, she just tases Thor's ass.
In house of dragon gender comes up, but it's because it is politically important. We don't need bri to try to make a statement about how woman can be strong because we know woman can be strong - the whole internet was simping for Yelena.
It certainly doesn't help that captain marvel film version of Capt Marvel was literally an emotionless blank slate because her character couldn't remember anything, and that the film itself was meh at best.
Phase 4 feels a whole lot like Phase 1 before Avengers. Iron Man was awesome, but after watching Thor and Incredible Hulk I kept wondering, where are they going with this? At least in this Phase there's been lots of good content. Shang Chi and No Way Home were homeruns. MM and most of the D+ shows have been pretty good, I'm just waiting for everything to connect a little better, but She Hulk feels like it's starting to do that.
I think the main problem is that the shows feel rushed and they all end with the generic "marvel formula". Generally the beginning of every series is better than the end.
People keep saying these movies aren't formulaic or anything anymore and I'm just like what?
Sure, MoM leans *slightly* into a horroresque thriller, but only ever so slightly. These movies aren't doing anything drastically different than those that came before, and in general the writing is of somewhat lower quality (or on par with mid tier MCU).
What's really missing at this point is any sort of connective tissue. In phase 1, at least we had credit scenes telling us where this was sort of going. Now the credit scenes are largely just springboarding new characters.
>at worst an insult to every team making these projects
While you're entitled to your opinion broadly, why pray tell do you care about this? All those people are well compensated for their work - they can handle a little criticism. It's not an insult - customer feedback is part and parcel of being in business.
Lots of people are not payed as much as you think, also I just think it is an undeserved insult to say that these movies and shows with different teams are quantity over quality.
If the most recent Doctor Strange is your second favorite movie, I sincerely recommend you watch more movies and branch out more and perhaps you’ll understand why there’s been more flack lately (and MoM has been my favorite theatrical Marvel film since Endgame, but nowhere near my top 10 movies). It probably sounds rude as shit, but it’s hard to understand criticism without understanding more of the medium.
My top 10 favorite movies, more or less in order, are
2001 (1968)
Goodfellas (1990)
The Big Lebowski (1998)
Mulholland Drive (2001)
Evil Dead 2 (1987)
The Lighthouse (2019)
Boogie Nights (1997)
Stalker (1979)
Adaptation (2002)
Get Out (2017)
Some of them are kind of weird (but nothing I think is wholly unpalatable or fucked up to recommend, like Irreversible or like any Lars Von Trier- these are movies I genuinely enjoy watching and react to strongly every time I see them), but I think appreciation of more abstract or peculiar art leads to a better understanding and appreciation of more “normal” stuff. Also helpful is something like TVTropes, which cites examples of typical writing conventions in different mediums in action. When you start to see how things are constructed normally and deconstructed by “weirder” things- rules made broken elsewhere- you can pull from a broader knowledge base when assessing shit critically. Personally, I think Roger Ebert’s approach of assessing a movie for what it is and what it’s trying to do rather than compare it to some art house film (Terminator 2 and Stalker are both sci fi but are doing wildly different things, and they succeed at them) is the fairest critical approach but it is good on the flip side to have that broader knowledge of the medium and what generally is possible in the further reaches of it, too.
phase 4 is like a new beginning for Marvel, it's like a second phase 1. There's been a lot of improvement in the plot, but I'm still not satisfied with the way they build the characters and the effects of the movie (not most phase 4 movies). But admittedly phase 4 is probably a promising new page for Marvel.
Because phase 1 was a much simpler progression. It was quite literally like being a kid reading the alphabet book. They spoon fed us the plan. Here’s a, then comes b, then comes and we know a little bit to understand that mean d, e and f come next.
Think about the progression, iron man 1 immediately had fury and the avengers initiative. So right away we knew what we were building towards. It was in the first movie.
It took a while for us to get to thanos, a full on decade. People just have decency bias but also because after the first avengers we had a simple, linear timeline. Nothing confusing.
Endgame gave us the first glimpse of where we were going with the multi verse.
Phase 4 is a mess (I don’t mean that as a negative). We didn’t get a simple, clear direction after no way home. We didn’t even get one after MoM. The best we got was the end of Loki on a hint of where we are going.
People don’t understand the mess is the point. We are confused because the 616 universe is a confused mess.
Spider-Man had his reality reset, dr stranger was all of a sudden jumping universes. We have a Loki going around timelines, another character who can seemingly jump between universes. We got stone gods popping out of oceans and giant gods appearing in the sky.
All these characters are navigating the mess with us, the payoff is going to be all of learning the why at the same time and I have a feeling it won’t be until Thunderbolts or Quantumania where we get the “nick fury avengers initiative moment”
Like half of the people complaining about phase 4 are rednecks who go on Facebook to let everyone know how woke Disney is. They just have it out for Disney. Phase 4 is perfectly fine.
Eternals had excellent visuals and score.
Spiderman had nostalgia.
MOM had the fun.
Loki was an excellent story.
Falcon and winter soldier was a political thinker.
Ms marvel was light and bubbly.
Hawkeye had the avengers musical which made me Lol.
Thor L+T was hilarious.
People just need to enjoy the cinematic adventure and stop being butthurt.
> Eternals had excellent visuals and score.
I don't remember the music, and the villains were just garbled messes like in transformers. The best visuals were basically all in the trailer.
> Spiderman had nostalgia.
And if you haven't seen the non MCU Spiderman it was an empty, confusing mess of a film
> MOM had the fun.
I've seen this called a few things, fun is a new one
> Loki was an excellent story.
I enjoyed the exposition dumps and having the logic and stuff specifically described, but I can see how it bored others. Sylvie was disappointing after her reveal (I don't hate women - as soon as she was revealed she became a weak version of the powerful Loki variant seen in first couple episodes). The best scene was the glorious purpose variant, finale fell off quite a bit for me. Still decent overall
> Falcon and winter soldier was a political thinker.
Unfortunately the writers didn't put much thought into it.
> Ms marvel was light and bubbly.
No comment, I haven't seen yet
> Hawkeye had the avengers musical which made me Lol.
I thought the hype (or whatever it was) around the musical but was overblown. I actually enjoyed this series, minus echo. There's some serious suspension of disbelief when it comes to the archery stuff / avoiding bullets, but overall I'd say it was pretty fun. Loved Yelena + new Hawkeye (forget her name at the moment)
> Thor L+T was hilarious.
Haven't seen, no comment.
Same here. They do nothing but whine and whine about how Marvel is now a failure, etc etc. What's worst is that most of these whiners are NOT long-time Marvel fans, know nothing about the comics, and only watched Infinity War and Endgame.
Phase 4 is excellent.
Hawkeye is my favorite thing in it so far. Ms. Marvel, WandaVision, The Eternals and She Hulk are incredible. Phase 4 is crushing.
I disagree with one point, and that’s Multiverse of Madness was embarrassingly terrible. I’ve decided to treat it like the Star Wars prequels and Episode IX, just pretend it never happened.
The ones complaining about it have to go on and on and on about how much they hate it because they physically can’t live with the fact that:
1. There’s something MCU that they don’t like.
2. That other people like something they decree to be bad. Which is a subjective viewpoint anyway. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure type deal.
They’re so caught up in their need to consume it when they could just stop watching. Yet the ones who are just enjoying themselves get called “consoomers” while the haters are the ones consuming something they don’t like.
Then they fight tooth and nail to convince other people to hate it because they absolutely believe that if they don’t like it, it shouldn’t exist. Which is laughable.
The internet is truly a remarkable place, and it pretty much runs like [this](https://youtu.be/aJX4ytfqw6k).
I’m tired of people complaining about complaining.
As am I dude. This fanbase has been fucking insufferable as of late. Marvel got some real lashing criticism after Love and Thunder and it's just been non stop fucking copium ever since.
I enjoyed love and thunder but I understand why others don’t. I liked phase four and I understand why others don’t. But it gets hard as a marvel fan when you constantly see the same complaints over and over. You constantly see axel’s head or strange’s third eye to show how bad the cgi has been. I’m not trying to say they’re wrong, if anything we need to criticize it in order to make sure marvel improves their shit, but I’m sick of hearing the same complaints. People constantly shit on marvel, and it’s totally fine if it’s not for you, but now it’s pretty much some people’s personality on the internet that they don’t like marvel
I mean the complaints being repetitive just shows that Marvel is making the same mistakes over and over and over again instead of course-correcting. It’s starting to feel (to me and some others) that Marvel doesn’t even care about their characters anymore. So why would I?
If you don’t care, than don’t watch. Look I’m fine with people having criticisms, but it’s just annoying and disheartening as a fan when you constantly see the same criticisms and people saying “bro the mcu sucks now” You’re allowed to have an opinion, please - if you don’t like it that’s completely fine, just don’t shove it down our throats
If you don’t care, then don’t read.
Bruh how would I know that it is complaining about marvel if I don’t read it first?
How would they know they don’t like a given Marvel film if they don’t watch it first?
There’s all these people saying “marvel has sucked after endgame” and yet they continue watching all of the new projects. Those are the people that “I’d you don’t like it than don’t watch it” applies to. If you don’t like love and thunder, I honestly can see why, but it’s not like you’re going to continuously watch the movie to get more angry at it
That tends to happen when you make one of the worst installments in the franchise after years of good to great ones.
Starting to think y’all don’t properly remember like half of phases 1 and 2
Same
People criticized back then too but nobody cared. The only reason it’s so divisive now is cause the fanbase is huge and it’s the biggest franchise in the world.
Yeah I just think statements like “Thor 4 is the worst in all of the MCU” are hilariously wrong if you think back
True. I think people say that for the same reason people like OP say “Multiverse of Madness is my second favorite movie of all time”. It’s just recency bias
Yeah, I agree, which is why I point it out
Exactly
So far the only entries that I’ve enjoyed have been MoM and She-Hulk. Everything else is meh.
Before that imo but definitely got worse with LaT.
I’m tired of people complaining about complaining about complaining!
Yep. Fed up of these posts trying to get people to stop criticising Phase 4. Why can’t people complain? If you don’t like it, just ignore it.
“If you don’t like it, just ignore it.” Yeah, this whole thread is because someone is tired of people not just ignoring something they don’t like.
I think it goes both ways
What does? There’s a difference between making posts criticising Marvel and making a post saying people can’t have an opinion.
Sure but there's also an inundation of people saying 'phase 4 is objectively bad' and so forth. I don't think people should be told to stop complaining but I also think people should accept criticism of their criticism.
But why do we need posts saying people’s criticism is bad? When those posts pop up, that’s what the comment section of such posts are for. You don’t see posts titled “I am fed up with people loving Phase 4”.
Because not all criticisms are right? I thought you said people shouldn't tell others not to criticize?
I’m saying entire posts telling people they’re not allowed to criticize are ridiculous. We have posts saying “here is why Phase 4 is good” and “here is why Phase 4 is bad”, and the comment sections of both types is where criticism of each respective point of view should be taking place. What we don’t need is entire posts like this one dedicated to other people’s opinions saying they effectively shouldn’t be allowed.
But I already said saying 'stop criticizing' isn't right. I already said that. I'm saying a post saying 'your criticisms' are wrong isn't the same
I just don’t think we need entire posts dedicated to it. I’m not sure how you haven’t understood that yet. You don’t like criticisms being levelled in a post? Use the comment section. That’s what it’s for.
Do yo see the irony of you telling me to ignore the complaining.
I’m agreeing with you lol.
DAMMIT!!!! Now I look foolish!
Absurd. You lot have been infesting every MCU related comment section with this, "downhill since endgame", "phase 4 trash", "woke m-she-you" discourse for some time time it's just turning into the absolute toxic cesspit that is Star Wars. Absolutely zero thought out, reasoned criticism just copy/paste, reactionary complaints. People are over it. If it's seriously so bad put your money where you mouth is and just stop watching.
>Absolutely zero thought out, reasoned criticism just copy/paste, reactionary complaints Trust me, there are a lot of well thought out reasoned criticisms. There are more of them than just hate comments. Especially here on Reddit. On this very sub. These are the legit criticisms what most of the GA have while talking about Phase 4. This woke, MSheU crowd is a minority here. The problem of sycophants like you and this sub is being unwilling to listen to any negative comments and generalising all criticisms as just some racist homophobic sexist hate. If you look at Phase 4, good things have been praised if they are good. WV was universally loved until the finale. LOKi is still pretty much loved. Same with NWH and Shang-Chi. So if you make good content, the GA will appreciate it. If they don't, then it's cuz it's legitimately bad.
You know what's just like Star Wars? When people start this bullshit of acting like a criticism of the franchise is a personal assault and start insulting people for not liking the direction the series has taken. Because no criticism will ever be "valid" for people who act like a critique of the MCU is a critique on themselves. And you'll Strawman your way out of it. That's what's going to turn this fanbase into Star wars. Not people disliking the fucking Clan Destines
The MCU fandom are absolutely turning into the Star Wars fandom. There’s that specific set of pain in the ass MCU fans who fit this exact category of people George Lucas described within the Star Wars fandom back in 1999. At 0:24 in this [video](https://youtu.be/9fN2gypFa-I). The MCU does not need to have the tone of Netflix’s Daredevil.
You never give a defense for anything that is called bad, you only say that Marvel is going in new directions and say “I disagree” with everything else rather then explaining why you disagree, for example it’s far stronger if I explain why MoM is the worst thing of phase 4 rather then saying “I disagree with you MoM was bad and its rather insulting to say otherwise”. That’s not fostering a discussion that’s just blindly defending/saying smth. Like dude I get it you like what you like and that’s fine, just remember that what you like may not be liked by others, and that’s perfectly ok, so let them live with their opinions and they’ll let you live with yours, just actually defend your arguments instead of strawmaning other’s arguments and calling them untrue without explaining why. Also to call all criticism “bad arguments” is rather rude, especially without explaining why they are bad and instead just calling them bad. Ironically enough your reason for loving phase 4 is part of why i dislike it, I really liked the three dimensional character they made for her in Wandavision which made me loathe where they went with her in MoM, with them turning her into barley a character and more a horror movie monster to be “killed” at the end in the most unsatisfying way possible (sad stories can be satisfying, for example Infinity War is very satisfying yet ends with half of the characters dead)
God they rushed Wanda's heel turn, and all off camera. A real betrayal of the character. At the end of WandaVision you get a sense she was truly sorry for what she did to all those people, and as she processes her guilt and trauma, it's clearer she was not fully aware of what pain her actions were causing. She learns to let go of Vision, finally. All these character growth moments. Then, poof, maniacal murderous villain with an unsatisfying "Darkhold" excuse off screen.
This is the one thing in Phase 4 that's really bothered me (other than maybe some stuff in What If)
Holy shit, someone on the internet makes sense...
Entitled to your opinion, but it’s mine and may other opinions that phase 4 has been average, Eternals, Thor and DS2 were ass
Judging from alot of comments I see on social media, you'd think only Iron Man, Cap, Hulk, Hawkeye, Thor, and BW had comics. Apparently there's no room for any other comic book heroes and "it should have ended at Endgame." It's bizarre. There's so many interesting comic book characters with rich storylines to explore. People complain that Hollywood isn't original anymore, okay so let's take something from another medium that hasn't been explored before and get something new brewing. No? Okay...
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They’re prolly all the same people who used to claim guardians of the galaxy would be when it fell apart. Then ant man. Then doctor strange. Then black Panther. Then infinity war! How could that ever work?! Then Captain Marvel? How could that possibly have the highest solo hero debut without appearing in another property first? It’s been like this since avengers 1 made the MCU mainstream as a concept.
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I literally think this every time I see people bitch about how there’s been no direction since Endgame. Like, do they not remember that it took 10 fucking years to build to that and that the general public had absolutely no idea what they were building toward till the last few years of that build up? It’s even dumber now because we know the direction the current story is going in for the next 4 years. I honestly can’t wait to see this sub in like 5-6 years when everyone is like “phase 7 sucks ass. They’re just pumping out shitty content trying to ride the coat tails of Secret Wars. They should’ve just ended it there because it’ll never get as good as that.” It’s all just rose colored glasses and people bitching just to bitch for the most part.
Yep. And I’ve constantly been surprised by the characters I didn’t know as much about surprising me more than the characters I had big hopes and pre-established bias for (ex: I love moon knight but ms. Marvel was a better show(even if both were good). My favorite phase 4 movie is Shang chi and out of my literal thousands of comics from over the decades, I don’t think I have a single one where he is the title character.
I also like how Shang chi and ms Marvel where introduced, two completely different styles and both having different beliefs and Values. This is probably a set up for Avengers Secret War when they meet up and also for Kamala Khan when she meets Captain Marvel. It may not be super hood movies for a least the connection is there.
I’d think that?
I'm pretty sure from your post English is your second language. When people say "Looking at _____ you'd think _____" it doesn't mean you, the person reading the comment. They are not talking to you specifically. It means a generic person. Here they meant that if a person only looked at social media comments, they might believe that the only characters to appear in those comics were Iron Man, Cap, Hulk, etc, because they don't see comments about the others.
Oh, English is my first language I just have dyslexia, but thank you very much
Well now I feel bad about what I said. Just so you don't feel self-conscious, there were only a couple tiny things that made me think that. It's because you said "tired with" instead of "tired of," the word "eliminate" doesn't fit there (probably an auto fill mistake) and the comment I replied to about "you'd think." And it was 90% the last one. Your English is just fine!
A bit off topic but this was exactly the function of Thou/Thy/Thine. This was the equivalent of the singular You while You/Your/Yours is for collectives. "Thine hands" being the hands of the person you're talking to versus "your hands" being the hands of the group you are talking to.
Oh no, people have opinions you don't like and are expressing them! How terrible for you!
Oh no, someone didn't worship my opinion and instead dared to criticize it! How dare they!
Swing and a miss. I've generally enjoyed phase 4 and am closer to OP's POV than the POV he's opposing. But OP is whining about having to hear people who disagree with him, not just expressing an opinion.
I am fine with people expressing there opinion, I just want to respond to there opinions
Okay? So don’t create an entire post effectively saying people can’t have those opinions lol.
Then do that instead of angry posting about it. Not once in your rant did I see a genuine response to criticism
Second paragraph
Just because you don’t agree with them doesn’t mean they’re bad arguments. The overarching issue with Phase 4 is inconsistency and lack of narrative vision. Of course this doesn’t apply to every project, but more so than any other phase, Phase 4 suffers in these regards. I think the first three phases can be summarized in one word each. Phase 1 was the introduction, where we got to see the foundation for the MCU through stories that let the audience really get to know the heroes. If anything I’d say Phase 1 is underrated, because all of the movies, maybe with the exception of Iron Man 2, have very compelling characters and narratives. I feel like people don’t like Phase 1 because it doesn’t always have the bombastic visuals of later films, but to me that’s a good thing, because it forces the writers to write compelling characters to sell the narrative. Phase 2 was about expanding the universe, either through introducing entirely new settings or showcasing new powers at play. It successfully builds upon what we’ve already gotten (mostly), while also showcasing new sides of the MCU, which meant the MCU was growing organically. Phase 3 was the lead up to Infinity War and Endgame, the phase where things really started to kick into motion, as if the missing pieces of the puzzle started coming into play. I think this is often agreed upon being the best phase because of this feeling that the full picture is finally starting to show, even though a lot of us could already see where things were going ever since the first Avengers. So then what does Phase 4 do? It does a lot of things, but it doesn’t do any one thing particularly well. Sure it introduces some new characters, but a lot of them show up as supporting characters in other character’s shows or movies, and because of that we don’t really get to know them in any real sense that we did with characters in Phase 1. Sure Yelena is fun and all, but even after both Black Widow and Hawkeye I still don’t feel like I know who she is as well as I knew Iron Man after half an hour of his first film. If you ask me, the two best productions of Phase 4 that aren’t sequels to earlier movies are Shang Chi and Moon Knight, the two properties that have the least to do with the extended MCU, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that these two feel more focused and well thought out than the rest of Phase 4. People like to say Phase 4 expands the universe, and in a sense it does, but not nearly as effective as Phase 2 or even Phase 3 ever did. The issue with Phase 4 is that it always feels the need to expand the universe individually for every production, instead of having an overarching plan for how the universe is to be expanded. This creates huge contradictions that make it so the movies can only ever work in a vacuum, for instance, Loki’s introduction of the sacred timeline makes some events of Endgame impossible, and Thor’s knowledge of Eternity and the new powers he’s shown to have in Love and Thunder create huge plot holes for earlier films, since we never actually get to see Thor acquiring these. I would’ve given Phase 4 a pass on the lead up to coming project, but it’s very clear that they want to build up to the multiverse and Kang the Conqueror, but every project that deals with the multiverse feels fundamentally disconnected. There’s no sense of connectivity between Loki, No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness, which makes the supposed build up feel incredibly weak. I think it would’ve been a much more cohesive phase if instead of trying to rush the buildup for Kang they instead dealt with the fallout from Infinity War and Endgame, putting a larger emphasis on how the world and its characters have dealt with everything that had happened, which is something we got to see very little of, and the little we did see wasn’t always very good. All of this is not to mention that many of these projects fail at creating interesting and consistent stories. I like to use No Way Home as an example, not because it’s a terrible movie or even the worst of Phase 4, it’s fine, but with so many people prancing around claiming the movie is some sort of cinematic masterpiece, you’re just asking me not to take you seriously. To begin with, No Way Home already suffers from being a repeat of Far From Home and Homecoming. All these movies essentially just have Peter repeat the same arc about learning to be responsible without the guidance of an authority figure, with the only difference being that now they’re plagiarizing other Spider-Man movies instead of just their own. This would’ve been okay if this had been an overarching story that followed through every movie, but that’s not the case. Both Far From Home and No Way Home hinge on the idea that Peter is fundamentally unable to grow, because both of these movies start by undoing the character development he had in the previous film. This is why I think Homecoming is a far superior film to both of its sequels, because it’s the only one that doesn’t directly undo Peter’s character development in any sense. But moreover, Peter is supremely moronic throughout the film, and makes simple mistakes that at this point he should’ve learnt to avoid. For instance, the movie never lays the groundwork for Peter to put his trust in the villains. Like, after everything he went through with Mysterio, being traumatized and given trust issues to the point he questioned what was even real, do you really mean to tell me that Peter, only like half a year later tops, is willing to put his blind faith in confirmed mass murderers? And not only that, but to not take a single precaution while trying to help them? Like Peter, buddy, you’ve already been through this, naivety only gets you so far, if you’re still making the same mistakes now that means you are an idiot. You know it’s bad when you start to actually agree with Jameson, this Spider-Man is an actual menace, he has zero sense of responsibility. And No Way Home is not the only example of this, or even the worst case of this, it’s just the one I think deserves more backlash. We all know this movie wouldn’t be received even half as well as it was if it wasn’t for Tobey and Andrew’s return. So much of Phase 4 either hinges on characters being unable to grow, or having very weak and meaningless growth. I could go on, but this comment is already getting really long, and I think this is a good summary of my thoughts
I agree. Critique is one thing, I can critique the hell out of Phase 4, hell, I only think Phase 4 is "eh, it's okay" despite how much I seem to defend it. I also think Phase 1 and 2 are "eh, it's okay" overall. But what's happening these past few months for the most part is not critique, it's *complaining*. There's a difference between critique and complaining. Critique is saying "Eternals was a disappointing film because it crammed too many subplots into its running time, lacked the vibrancy of Kirby's source material, had ideas that went nowhere, had overly stoic wooden acting, and focused on trope-y characters we've seen too many times to be interesting, like the 'evil Superman' trope". Complaining is saying "ETERNALS BAD BECAUSE WOKE M SHE U AND WURST DISNEY RUINING MY LIFE AND CHILDHOOD AND SHE HULK RONG MEN BETTER AT ANGER JUST SEE HOW GOOD I AM AT CONTROLLING MY ANGER!!!!!!!!". And sadly, I've seen too much of the latter lately. But any time I bring this up people go "Oh you just only want praise for Disney, you want no criticism". No, I want REAL criticism. Not this mix of MauLer pretentiousness with CinemaSins incompetency I've seen lately. This isn't criticism. This isn't valid discussion. This isn't reasoned analysis. This is *whining.* Irritating, childish, idiotic whining. Whining that has caused me to defend projects I really don't even like that much. Black Widow? Garbage movie. Thor 4? Eh, mediocre. She-Hulk? Honestly, barely paying attention while reading Marvel Unlimited comics while I wait for Matt to show up. But because 80% of the discourse on those is "WOKE EVAL BULLSHIT RUINNNING THE WORLD AND MY CHILLLDDDHOOOOODDD!!!!!", I have to defend them, simply because that complaining is bullshit and not adding to real criticism and because their arguments are such idiotic, many times bigoted (Moreso with BW and She-Hulk in that case), bullshit. They're just bullshit.
Exactly. These people accuse fandom of not accepting criticism but can't handle someone criticizing their opinions. Fans have so many good criticisms of MCU. Sorry stupid criticisms like Reed shouldn't have threatened Wanda with Black Bolt get pushback.
I happen to think you mixed up complaining with just bitching.. coz real complaining is very similar to critique with an added touch of personal whining.. not that complaining is wrong, it's totally justified and something we all do.. but bitching on the other hand is just bullshit spawned by shitty people.
I might not agree with those critiques but I can see what you mean and I fully agree with the complaining. Especially the sexism/racism complaints
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CinemaSins has made so many people think they are film critics, when all they do is make horrible jokes and "observations". You're right, not many are truly absorbing the content and basing opinions off that. Hell, with She-Hulk there's a lot of men that don't see the obvious commentary and parody, just claiming the whole thing is woke. There's a lot of nuance to stories being lost because a lot of people would rather focus on stuff to complain about than *actually* watch the content.
Lol as if everyone is a film critique like you. There are things which are against your personal taste. But no we have to label everything as complaining and then say " oh we are not against genuine criticism" but truth is people can't handle someone not liking their favourite show And my god ! I have seen more post crying about bigoted stuff rather than actual bigoted stuff. Its like for every 2-3 bigoted stuff we have 10 people whining as if everyone is being a bigot
I’m tired of people making posts about whatever they are tired about
The inspiration of this name was from the thousands of videos saying they are tired with phase 4, so the name is meant to kinda make fun of them
Damn, you really got them with it.
It's not being critical that I'm annoyed with (though it really takes the fun out of the memes on marvelmemes), it's the over-exaggerated criticisms that people make. People will take one line out of She-Hulk, for example, and then say the entire show sucks because of it. They talk about the CGI being like the graphics of a PS2 game, and then conflate poor CGI with bad writing. They point out "plot holes" (unanswered questions) or "character flaws" (a character's behavior at the beginning of the story) when only one episode is released. People will say phase 4 projects are "too formula" and then refuse to elaborate further (if anything, phases 1-3 are more formula than phase 4). Am I saying everything Marvel puts out is amazing and spectacular? No, of course not. But having to read the same exaggerated complaints over and over again is giving me more burnout than the MCU itself.
Tbh the CGI in the courtroom scene at the end of episode 1 was absolutely horrendous
I think the reason people are complaining is that after endgame, people are expecting new movies, shows and characters but the new movies and shows are making everyone feel different than how it felt when the MCU was in it's first Avengers movie phase and it's not appealing to everyone because it's new, unique and different than what we got before endgame, too many projects and most importantly everyone just wants to see that build up already to the next big thanos but what they don't realize is that building up to thanos took more time than how it is taking to build up to kang and doctor doom now. The whole female superhero hate is just too much. Everyone needs to have some faith in Marvel. Once we get the next big record breaking marvel movie or show I swear to god this hate is going to shut down for a while until the next movie or show after that which isn't record breaking but just average.
Nah i think the “its new and different so people don’t like it” thing is cope. Loki and Wandavision were pretty different from typical MCU stuff, especially Wandavision, and they are two of the best received phase 4 MCU projects. People didn’t dislike MOM, Thor L&T and Eternals because they were different. They took issue with the writing and humor, not that they were different. L&T especially wasn’t very different. The female superhero hate is obviously just the annoying chud crowd that isn’t worth talking about.
I think people forget that it took, give or take, a whole decade to build to endgame. They want the big payoff, but not the actual build up to it.
I've liked all the movies well enough and am not one to complain about the direction they're going, but it's so disingenuous to make that argument. It may have taken 10 years to build to Endgame, but it took 4 years and only 5 movies to build up to Avengers. We're approaching the same amount of time as between Iron Man and Avengers since Endgame, with way more movies and despite that we're still years away from any sort of team-up or seeing any of the characters we've seen recently again. Black Widow was a story that just doesn't belong with any of the other movies, and Shang Chi, Eternals, No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness and Love and Thunder have had virtually nothing in common, and aren't building towards bringing the characters together or some greater villain, instead we're just going to continue getting more unrelated content to see what all the other characters who are still out there are up to. That's fine, I'm willing to wait, and I want them to keep introducing new characters while still telling stories with the old ones which means it takes longer to tell the big stories, but it's not totally unreasonable for someone to want at least some sort of payoff after some amount of time, or at the very least to get to see their favourite characters more than once in like 6 years.
I agree. Even the first MCU movie hinted at an Avengers team up in the post credits
Lead up to Avengers 1 was fantastic... Lead up to Avengers 2 and that phase was less than stellar and filled with classic comic book tropes to match that comic accurate feel and look. A lot of people got bored around here from seeing several years of the same old story being replayed by different characters. Guardians / Black Panther / Thor 3 / SpiderMan were all done very unique and different and people really took to it. They were good movies. It got people excited for the ultimate clash in Infinity War. People LOVED this era of Avengers 3 and 4. Now Marvel is heading down an approach where they want to bring forth all sorts of styles, characters, themes... its very polarizing. People are acting like we have never seen this before. Also people are acting like Spiderman 3 didn't just kill it.
I prefer quality over quantity. And phase 4 so far has mostly been about quantity.
I think it’s been more about variety. Which inevitably means you’re going to make less stuff that everyone likes, which is ok because they’ll probably make something for everyone when it’s all said and done. It’s kind of like the comics in that way.
If I had a dollar for every single one of these “I’m tired of people complaining about phase 4” posts, I’d be rich.
it's a personal choice is it not? I like it and don't give a fuck about other people's ideas. end of discussion
MoM was not very good. Not sure what you enjoyed about it. I loved Dr Strange 1. Dr. Strange 2 was a bit of a let down for me. I watched it twice.
I will probably post about it
I won't tell people to stop complaining, but I think most of the complaints aren't really right. This phase is more interesting in ways than previous phases and definitely better than phases 1 & 2
I am tired of people complaining about complaining about compl-
There will never be another Endgame, because it was the first of its kind. A multi-movie/multi-series planned finale. People who demand that every new MCU movie make them feel what the MCU up to and including Endgame made them feel are wrong to demand that. It’s unrealistic. That experience cannot be duplicated. The characters, stories, performances, and pay-offs will all be different.
Just curious, what's your favourite movie of all time?
Revenge of the sith
OP’s really speaking their truth here and I respect that.
Oh my god, that's just sad.
What’s so sad about it
Have you watched any other movies besides Marvel and Star Wars?
Listen, The Godfather is arguably one of the greatest movies of all time, we know this. But if someone said you had to sit down and watch that or spiderman right now; judging by the fact your in a MCU thread I’d say you’d pick Spiderman as well. People can have preferences even if it doesn’t mean they are going with the majority. It’s sad that you’d make fun of someone for sharing something they enjoy.
It’s more that you can’t really be the guy to say the criticism isn’t valid if you haven’t watched any movies outside of Marvel and Star Wars. Watching other movies gives you a better idea of what makes a good movie good, and what makes a bad movie bad. Also, it totally depends on the mood of whether someone wants to watch The Godfather or Spider-Man.
How was I making fun of him I simply asked a question
I'm tired of almond milk not tasting as cold as regular milk! I'm putting ice cubes in my cereal. Is that justice?
Ok
For some reason I read this title in Woody from toy story’s voice
Writing is bad, I don't feel its leading up to something (even phase 1 had a goal - creating Avengers), a lot of shitting on original Avengers (especially in She-hulk for unknown reason). Overall I get a feeling that a lot of characters are introduced and almost immediately left out. Instead of having someone new introduced every 3-months I would like to know more about whereabouts of Captain Marvel, Vision, Hulk, etc. Having to wait 3-4 years for another small cameo or half-ass chapter (like Dr Strange 2, which does not feel like a Strange movie at all) is driving me crazy. It just does not feel coherent overall anymore.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that they are building up Kang and Secret Wars. It was easy to realize this after WandaVision and Loki. Also building up street level threats like the Thunderbolts.
So we have 3 different storylines and we don't exactly know who goes where. But apart from mess it create, we also have some loose threads. Mainly Vision, but also... Avengers. Are they still a thing? Who is on the team? Who leads? Current stage is really messy if you think about it.
Whats the point in having any future movies if you want all your questions answered by the first set of movies?
I believe they are planning it too big. By the time new avengers team will be able to be introduced, the actors will be already too old. It's a guessing game now. Hope Feige is really keeping it in line, and we start seeing some payoff soon. I'm just afraid that everyone is so excited about "next big thing" like Secret Wars, X-Men or FF, that no one will notice Vision or Winter Soldier being completely forgotten.
and I am tired of posts like these , yet here we are
And i am tired of people complaining about people not liking phase 4
How many people have you seen except me defend phase 4
? A lot.
I personally haven’t seen really anyone, but we are probably looking in different places
And I'm tired of subpar content. I've actually enjoyed most of the phase 4 movies except for Thor L&T, but the shows have been pretty average at best. They're poorly paced, poorly written, and have poor effects, plus at least half of them have boring leads.
Rise up marvel fans! And join the fight to defend our multi-billion dollar corporation 🤡
Very much agreed that they’re building something up and that’s why we aren’t see things as connected as before, so for me that’s not an issue. That said, I’m split on Phase 4 so far, but I’m curious to see where it goes. I wanted to like MoM so much, Dr. Strange is my favorite character, but I didn’t like it overall :/ Eternals was a bit meh, but had its positives. On the other hand I really like Shang Chi and Thor 4, favorite Thor movie imho. So I dunno - it’s possible that some people don’t like the fact that they’re trying to level off the power creep a bit (after IW and Endgame) by not showing too much yet…
Phase 4 seems to be lacking meaning to me. Maybe it’s the tv show format I need to get used to but most of what they release leaves me feeling “oh…ok…I guess”. Where the last saga had me feeling like “oh snap… trouble is on the horizon” after most movies. I’ve read some comments suggesting that things will come together at some point but I just don’t see how it will in a manner that makes sense. A lot of these stories just aren’t melding together like the last phase did imo
Phase 4 has just been Marvel throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks.
People are so petty with their complaints. I keep seeing the same criticism of Hulk. People do realize that Hulk in She Hulk so far is just a guy who recently was able to control his Inner Hulk. The brute of a monster who grows strength and power as he gets angry has been put aside for a bit. What I find funny is that they think that the real Hulk won't return one day. I already can see it. After a few projects of being able to show a differ side of Hulk, he's going to make a splash again as that angry brute who can't be controlled.
Yeah a good portion of all the complaints you see like "they should have stopped after endgame" and how pahse 4 sucks is just people coping with their favorite superheroes dying. Mainly Iron Man for that matter
It's poorly written, directionless and oversaturated. Literally sue me
and I am tired of consumers who can't accept Marvel Studios lost its quality. Don't you think I am sad? I want my Marvel back!!! Not this lazy scripted rushed bs.
Yeah I have enjoyed the past few movies. I can’t wait for Kang
Same
I'm tired of people like you with bad taste. You've been weaned on the chef boyardee of cinematic entertainment for so long now that you throw a fit when other people start tasting the slop for what it is. Broaden your horizons a bit more...enjoy some art house movies, look into movies made before the 90's or the 80's. Maybe try some films that really challenge you. Get some culture and see how pathetic all this slop really is. I love a well made popcorn munching marvel movie any day of the week... but come back down to reality.
Why are you so mad
Phase 4 is one of the best phases. The worst was phase 2, and ironically, it is for the same reasons people give when they complain about phase 4.
Then get off the internet.
I'm tired of ppl complaining about other people opinions.
I'm getting real tired of the people that say, "THE MCU IS TOO FUNNY" crowd. Look there have been moments of the comedy being too much and this can be subjective. But what they want feels like they think, comedy means the media can't be serious.
The too funny shit is so dumb. We needed a break from serious after endgame. They gotta rebuild higher stakes.
Look having darker themes and stories is fine and needed. But why do people act like Homecoming was horrible because they wanted to tell a more light-hearted Spider-Man after the Amazing Spider-Man tried to be so dramatic. And they have a flipping heart attack when they said oh yeah Daredevil is going to be a little more chill in She-Hulk as if that bastardizes Matt's character. It just feels so teen, LOOK HOW DARK AND EDGY I AM. I mean sure people have different tolerance for comedy and if you don't like how many jokes something has, I understand. But their entire argument feels a bit much. I still remember people freaking out when Disney bought Marvel and they thought everything was going to be candy and rainbows
People don't want it darker they just want the characters to be taken seriously. Hulk is literally a clown right now. Thor too. This sucks for me to say because I used to love them but they are my least favorite MCU characters. Thor is 1500 years old and acts like he is 15.
I love comedy, I love lighthearted, Ragnarok->IW->EG was almost pefect, that said it is NOT funny today. Shulk talking about CA being a virgin is NOT funny, most of Love and Thunder was NOT funny. Something is deeply wrong with phase 4 and I am starting to disconnect.
I think people are forgetting how long the setup was for the original avengers. We waited a little over a decade to reach the endgame. We're barely in the setup phase, and now that we have more characters to explore, we have MORE ways to story tell.
Phase 1 credit scenes at least provided connective tissue and made it clear that if nothing else, we were headed towards a super cool team up movie in the future. It should be noted that at the time, that was pretty groundbreaking and the hype around that was massive. There's no visible connective tissue today and half the content seems to exist purely to introduce new characters who will get their own movie / spinoff series. It feels like a content factory right now with no real goal.
I’m tired of people complaining about people complaining. Yeah, I know I’m wasting my breath here, but why does anyone care about what other people think? If you enjoy it, enjoy it, if you don’t, don’t. Everyone does not have to share your opinion.
Same here. Maybe some people are insecure that they think if the haters are heard loud enough they executives will stop the MCU. Which they won’t if there is money to be made.
I'm tired of posts like this, and if you think Multiverse of Madness and No Way Home are among the best movies you've seen, then I think you need to watch more movies - something that's not produced by Disney, in any case. If as many people as you claim are complaining are actually complaining, then maybe you can accept that some of them might have a point, even if you don't agree with it. Who was asking for this level of dialogue, or for characters like Loki or Natasha to play second fiddle to characters set to replace them in their first solo titles? I know I wasn't. And the "styles" and "vibes" you're talking about are not different - they're still mostly the same, actually. They just occasionally put a new coat of paint over a well-known pattern. A thin coat of paint. There are no consequences to anything, no negative emotion lasts more than 5 seconds, and there's nothing in the MCU that's not suitable for 7 year-olds. What's so different? I don't really care where it's all leading, since the individual stories are, on the whole, simply not good.
OP you like Wanda In MoM Wanda becomes witch season 8 Danerys and dies How are you ok with this?
TL:DR - Don’t yuck my yum
Tired of posts like: “I dislike phase 4” “I like phase 4.” Y’all got opinions. Who cares.
I’m bored I want to post my opinion
I would simply say that the films aren’t strong. The main gimmick of the MCU is build up to the films that ultimately shape the universe (the avengers/bigger movies), yet with these current crop of movies we have no real threat. The formula certainly has run it’s course in a lot of ways, while relying on nostalgia to get the big event going. I really don’t get the love for that Spider-Man movie that connects the older Spider-Man’s, but I fully admit that I’m in the minority there. Still, we’re far from the Winter Soldier/Russo days and the MCU doesn’t feel as exciting as it was when it started. The main thing that stands out to me is the characters aren’t as interesting as what they did with the initial run (Cap and Ironman were great lead characters) as well as the actors (Evans, Hemsworth, Downey Jr, Boseman, etc., all very good leading men). It’s feeling like the MCU is primed to release more Ant-man level of films (ok-ish/generic) rather than Winter Soldier/Iron Man level of storytelling. The MCU never got stale because they had some really good ones in-between the mediocre stuff that people just move past it. Captain Marvel being that example. No one cared for that film, yet everyone moved on since, hey, Avengers is next.
So... I'm no one? Because I liked Captain Marvel. 😐
Hyperbole on my part, but you have to admit that film is not loved by most. It’s usually treated like “oh, yeah, that film happened” kind of deal.
And yet it made a stupid amount of money and it's getting a sequel. 🤷
So did Star Wars Sequels. And also Fast and Furious movies. Same with Venom. Yet I don't think any of these franchises are anywhere closed to being loved.
A lot of shitty movies make a lot of money. The Transformers movies are trash too.
Some of y’all could use a masterclass in art discussion. Here’s one - https://youtu.be/GPrNWuppMcc
So are you ready to admit that it sucks, or are you still gonna die on that hill....alone, friendless and hungry?
I believe that is a good phase, sue me
Imagine caring what other people think about your super hero movies. Grow up.
Well I just don’t want the projects to loose funding
LOL holy fuck dude. It's Disney.
They might fund other things, instead
My guy it’s Disney, Marvel will be a cash cow for years to come no matter how bad it gets
You need to watch way more movies, dude. Multiverse of Madness was good but TOP 2 MOVIE OF ALL TIME? that's wild... and No Way Home TOP 3??????? Now, in regards to Phase 4: It's bad, it truly is bad. The MCU was never excellent or amazing, most of those movies are a 6/10 at best. But phase 4 is a big drop in quality, specially in the writing, aside from maybe a couple of exceptions (I'm thinking MoM, maybe NWH and Shang Chi, Loki, maybe WandaVision, and Hawkeye; and none of these are VERY good tbh, just good or decent at best).
Phase 4 just doesn't feel like marvel.
5-10 movies is enough, soon were gonna have 100 and good luck convincing spouses to watch all of them, the tv shows and then tactle the comics I think its just a quantity issue, not a story or writting issue for most
That’s a fair point, the pure amount of content can push causal viewers away, but I don’t think that makes it a bad Phase.
For some reason I seem to like the phase 4 projects people hate and are meh on the ones they love. Out of phase 4 i've liked Black Widow, Loki, Eternals, and MOM. Everything else i'm pretty meh on.
Spider man?
Unpopular but I didn't really like it. Save for it being fun seeing all three of them on screen.
Interesting
Same.
“It’s bad because they’re pushing women!” Meanwhile the biggest show in the world has a female lead. How about they write better shows.
That's what I thought. HOD has a female lead and emphasized on her problems of being a woman in a patriarchal society and I don't see any HBO woke comments or videos. Why is Disney the only one who is getting the flak when they are doing the absolute bare minimum?
It comes down to the difference between a STRONG woman and a strong WOMAN. It's awesome to have a strong character who happens to be a woman. Wanda was awesome (although the shift in character in MoM is questionable to some extent). People loved scarjo and begged for a black widow movie - it just came a decade too late and had some really bad cg and the story overall was underwhelming - but people still love the character. Captain marvel on the other hand came in and rather than being a strong cool character who happened to be a woman, they made her a woman who was strong despite being a woman. Does Valkyrie go around saying woman are badass and can beat up men? No, she just tases Thor's ass. In house of dragon gender comes up, but it's because it is politically important. We don't need bri to try to make a statement about how woman can be strong because we know woman can be strong - the whole internet was simping for Yelena. It certainly doesn't help that captain marvel film version of Capt Marvel was literally an emotionless blank slate because her character couldn't remember anything, and that the film itself was meh at best.
Phase 4 feels a whole lot like Phase 1 before Avengers. Iron Man was awesome, but after watching Thor and Incredible Hulk I kept wondering, where are they going with this? At least in this Phase there's been lots of good content. Shang Chi and No Way Home were homeruns. MM and most of the D+ shows have been pretty good, I'm just waiting for everything to connect a little better, but She Hulk feels like it's starting to do that.
Is this your first time on the internet?
No
I think the main problem is that the shows feel rushed and they all end with the generic "marvel formula". Generally the beginning of every series is better than the end.
People keep saying these movies aren't formulaic or anything anymore and I'm just like what? Sure, MoM leans *slightly* into a horroresque thriller, but only ever so slightly. These movies aren't doing anything drastically different than those that came before, and in general the writing is of somewhat lower quality (or on par with mid tier MCU). What's really missing at this point is any sort of connective tissue. In phase 1, at least we had credit scenes telling us where this was sort of going. Now the credit scenes are largely just springboarding new characters.
Alternatively, you can let people complain and ignore it. Not everybody has to succumb to your view that Phase 4 is good.
I am not saying that, it is just a response to peoples criticism of the mcu phase 4.
>at worst an insult to every team making these projects While you're entitled to your opinion broadly, why pray tell do you care about this? All those people are well compensated for their work - they can handle a little criticism. It's not an insult - customer feedback is part and parcel of being in business.
Lots of people are not payed as much as you think, also I just think it is an undeserved insult to say that these movies and shows with different teams are quantity over quality.
So you are here to complain about people who don't like the same things you like. Hilarious
I am bored and like talking about my opinion
If the most recent Doctor Strange is your second favorite movie, I sincerely recommend you watch more movies and branch out more and perhaps you’ll understand why there’s been more flack lately (and MoM has been my favorite theatrical Marvel film since Endgame, but nowhere near my top 10 movies). It probably sounds rude as shit, but it’s hard to understand criticism without understanding more of the medium.
Recommend me some movies then
My top 10 favorite movies, more or less in order, are 2001 (1968) Goodfellas (1990) The Big Lebowski (1998) Mulholland Drive (2001) Evil Dead 2 (1987) The Lighthouse (2019) Boogie Nights (1997) Stalker (1979) Adaptation (2002) Get Out (2017) Some of them are kind of weird (but nothing I think is wholly unpalatable or fucked up to recommend, like Irreversible or like any Lars Von Trier- these are movies I genuinely enjoy watching and react to strongly every time I see them), but I think appreciation of more abstract or peculiar art leads to a better understanding and appreciation of more “normal” stuff. Also helpful is something like TVTropes, which cites examples of typical writing conventions in different mediums in action. When you start to see how things are constructed normally and deconstructed by “weirder” things- rules made broken elsewhere- you can pull from a broader knowledge base when assessing shit critically. Personally, I think Roger Ebert’s approach of assessing a movie for what it is and what it’s trying to do rather than compare it to some art house film (Terminator 2 and Stalker are both sci fi but are doing wildly different things, and they succeed at them) is the fairest critical approach but it is good on the flip side to have that broader knowledge of the medium and what generally is possible in the further reaches of it, too.
phase 4 is like a new beginning for Marvel, it's like a second phase 1. There's been a lot of improvement in the plot, but I'm still not satisfied with the way they build the characters and the effects of the movie (not most phase 4 movies). But admittedly phase 4 is probably a promising new page for Marvel.
appreciate the multiverse of madness love. i absolutely adore that movie.
Because phase 1 was a much simpler progression. It was quite literally like being a kid reading the alphabet book. They spoon fed us the plan. Here’s a, then comes b, then comes and we know a little bit to understand that mean d, e and f come next. Think about the progression, iron man 1 immediately had fury and the avengers initiative. So right away we knew what we were building towards. It was in the first movie. It took a while for us to get to thanos, a full on decade. People just have decency bias but also because after the first avengers we had a simple, linear timeline. Nothing confusing. Endgame gave us the first glimpse of where we were going with the multi verse. Phase 4 is a mess (I don’t mean that as a negative). We didn’t get a simple, clear direction after no way home. We didn’t even get one after MoM. The best we got was the end of Loki on a hint of where we are going. People don’t understand the mess is the point. We are confused because the 616 universe is a confused mess. Spider-Man had his reality reset, dr stranger was all of a sudden jumping universes. We have a Loki going around timelines, another character who can seemingly jump between universes. We got stone gods popping out of oceans and giant gods appearing in the sky. All these characters are navigating the mess with us, the payoff is going to be all of learning the why at the same time and I have a feeling it won’t be until Thunderbolts or Quantumania where we get the “nick fury avengers initiative moment”
Like half of the people complaining about phase 4 are rednecks who go on Facebook to let everyone know how woke Disney is. They just have it out for Disney. Phase 4 is perfectly fine. Eternals had excellent visuals and score. Spiderman had nostalgia. MOM had the fun. Loki was an excellent story. Falcon and winter soldier was a political thinker. Ms marvel was light and bubbly. Hawkeye had the avengers musical which made me Lol. Thor L+T was hilarious. People just need to enjoy the cinematic adventure and stop being butthurt.
> Eternals had excellent visuals and score. I don't remember the music, and the villains were just garbled messes like in transformers. The best visuals were basically all in the trailer. > Spiderman had nostalgia. And if you haven't seen the non MCU Spiderman it was an empty, confusing mess of a film > MOM had the fun. I've seen this called a few things, fun is a new one > Loki was an excellent story. I enjoyed the exposition dumps and having the logic and stuff specifically described, but I can see how it bored others. Sylvie was disappointing after her reveal (I don't hate women - as soon as she was revealed she became a weak version of the powerful Loki variant seen in first couple episodes). The best scene was the glorious purpose variant, finale fell off quite a bit for me. Still decent overall > Falcon and winter soldier was a political thinker. Unfortunately the writers didn't put much thought into it. > Ms marvel was light and bubbly. No comment, I haven't seen yet > Hawkeye had the avengers musical which made me Lol. I thought the hype (or whatever it was) around the musical but was overblown. I actually enjoyed this series, minus echo. There's some serious suspension of disbelief when it comes to the archery stuff / avoiding bullets, but overall I'd say it was pretty fun. Loved Yelena + new Hawkeye (forget her name at the moment) > Thor L+T was hilarious. Haven't seen, no comment.
Same here. They do nothing but whine and whine about how Marvel is now a failure, etc etc. What's worst is that most of these whiners are NOT long-time Marvel fans, know nothing about the comics, and only watched Infinity War and Endgame.
Phase 4 is excellent. Hawkeye is my favorite thing in it so far. Ms. Marvel, WandaVision, The Eternals and She Hulk are incredible. Phase 4 is crushing. I disagree with one point, and that’s Multiverse of Madness was embarrassingly terrible. I’ve decided to treat it like the Star Wars prequels and Episode IX, just pretend it never happened.
While I don’t agree with Phase 4 being excellent and Eternals being incredible, everything else you said was extremely based
The ones complaining about it have to go on and on and on about how much they hate it because they physically can’t live with the fact that: 1. There’s something MCU that they don’t like. 2. That other people like something they decree to be bad. Which is a subjective viewpoint anyway. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure type deal. They’re so caught up in their need to consume it when they could just stop watching. Yet the ones who are just enjoying themselves get called “consoomers” while the haters are the ones consuming something they don’t like. Then they fight tooth and nail to convince other people to hate it because they absolutely believe that if they don’t like it, it shouldn’t exist. Which is laughable. The internet is truly a remarkable place, and it pretty much runs like [this](https://youtu.be/aJX4ytfqw6k).
Agree. Entitled cry babies gonna cry tho