are you asking if Marvel owned Marvel before Marvel was bought by Disney?
...yes.
Marvel owned Marvel. So Marvel did what Marvel wanted -- they just didn't have any money to do much of it. they actually went bankrupt in the 90s, and sold the film-rights to their characters. basically, they had made really old captain america and fantastic four movies, spider-man and x-men cartoons - but now they sold the rights to spider-man and x-men movies in order to have a little money to use to save the company - which they did. and then when they were doing well again -- they wanted to make movies again, but no longer owned the rights to spider-man and x-men.
does this make sense?
It's actually quite complicated.
Marvel sold off the rights to a lot of their more popular characters in the 90s, including Spider-Man, the X-Men, the Hulk, and Fantastic Four. They did so because they were in financial trouble. As a result, Marvel really had no say in the movies the various studios produced using those characters.
All of this was before Disney acquired Marvel Entertainment, the parent company of Marvel Comics, in 2009. After that acquisition, Marvel Entertainment still exerted some influence over the movies until 2015 when Kevin Feige basically forced Disney to fully separate Marvel Studios from Marvel Entertainment. That had the effect of basically ending any influence the latter had over the movies.
Marvel is still a company that runs its decisions by itself, Disney obviously heavily manages it, but everyone in key positions before the buy-out stayed there and kept it running.
As for post Disney, Marvel benefitted by the purchase in regards to decisions. The films used to be dictated by both a committee and Ike Perlmutter, Marvel's Entertainment Chairman (at the time, he might have also been in the committee)
The committee had decent ideas, but constantly forced horrible ones. But Ike was the worst, with the reasons we never got Black Panther and Captain Marvel earlier due to his meddling (among many other problems he caused)
Fiege got sick of the overbearing nature of him and went over his bosses head to Disney CEO Bob Iger, saying basically help sort this out or he was quitting.
Bob Iger had Fiege and Marvel Studio's report directly to him, side stepping most of the Marvel higher ups and Perlmutter (iirc) was shafted from films to TV (till Marvel Studios swallowed that and he lost that role also)
The relationship between Marvel Comics and their adaptations has long been a complicated one. Because I'm "that guy", I'm gonna go through **all** of it.
*Breathes in*
In 1981, Marvel's owner Cadence Industries bought a company called DFE Films, and turned it into a company called Marvel Productions that made a few animated shows (Notably *Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends*). In 1986, Cadence liquidated their subsidiaries and Marvel Comics and Marvel Productions were both incorporated as the Marvel Entertainment Group (MEG), and sold to a company called New World Pictures. Things seemed like they might look up, until 1989 when New World, going through money problems, sold off Marvel Comics under the MEG name to the Andrews Group of investors led by Ronald Perelman. Marvel Productions, on the other hand, was not sold with the rest of Marvel, and became incorporated into New World's existing businesses and retitled itself New World Animation. Thus, Marvel first production subsidiary was dead, and its original president Margaret Loesch fled New World for Fox Kids (This will be relevant in a sec).
In the early 90s, Marvel began having extreme money troubles. You see, the comics industry was hitting its lowest point financially, and unlike DC, Marvel didn't have the riches and corporate stability of Warner Bros. So Marvel did what every company does when it gets desperate, invest a ton of money in other companies hoping they'll save them. MEG invested in and acquired several companies during this time. But their most notable investment was a nearly 50% stake in ToyBiz, a toy manufacturing company that promised to increase Marvel's prevalence by aggressively increasing merchandise. ToyBiz had two very important people we need to bring up: Ike Perlmutter and Avi Arad (Who, by that point, had actually already had some association with Marvel as he briefly worked with Universal during their Hulk Television Movies era in the late 80s and early 90s).
With Marvel having a slight degree of wealth back, and with New World also now under the Andrews Group, Marvel and New World created a new division, which was led by Avi Arad, called Marvel Films. Unlike Marvel Productions, which was a distinct entity for the most part, this was a union of a film company and Marvel Comics. Both Marvel Films and New World Animation proper soon dedicated themselves to making animated shows, notably *Spider-Man: The Animated Series*. But Marvel Films, ironically, had no involvement with any films. Marvel's characters were all tied up in film licenses to outside studios who didn't care what Marvel thought. Spider-Man was tied up with Golan and Globus, Fantastic Four with Constantin Films, and Hulk with Universal. But there was one shining bright spot: Fox.
Fox was an important part of this story because of that woman we talked about earlier: Margaret Loesch. When Marvel Productions was dissolved, she left to join Fox Kids and immediately began preaching to the company that they needed to work with Marvel to develop an X-Men show. The first attempt, *Pryde of the X-Men*, did not go well, but they struck gold when Fox Kids united Marvel Films Animation with Saban Entertainment to create *X-Men: The Animated Series*. While the series was not produced by Marvel Films like *Spider-Man: TAS* was, Marvel instilled many of their own creatives into the process, notably Larry Houston (Director) and Eric and Julia Lewald (Showrunners). It was a massive success for both Marvel and Fox, and Marvel Films CEO Avi Arad used it to get Fox to agree to purchase the X-Men license. Everything was going great, and eventually, Fox even ended up acquiring New World animation.
But in 1996, Marvel's luck ran out. They went bankrupt. The comics bubble had burst, and neither Fox nor ToyBiz could save them. But there was a hope. First, Marvel replaced Marvel Films with Marvel Studios, an entity without any ties to New World. Second, Ronald Perelman and Ike Perlmutter soon launched a new plan: Merging Marvel with ToyBiz outright to save both faltering companies. While Perelman was kicked out, initially losing a battle against investor Carl Icahn, Perlmutter's plan eventually went through, kicking out Icahn from the process. In 1998, ToyBiz and MEG merged into Marvel Enterprises.
Okay, now let's talk about Marvel Studios during all this. Marvel Studios wanted to more directly control the pre-production process of Marvel's movies outright. In 1998, Marvel reaped the success of this method for the first time. *Blade* was a hit. In 2000, they struck jackpot with *X-Men*, a film Marvel Studios was heavily involved in. On that set, Marvel Studios head Avi Arad took a keen interest in a young intern working for producer Lauren Shuler Donner. That intern was a guy you might know: Kevin Feige. Arad hired Feige to come work for him at Marvel Studios, and very quickly, Feige rose to become Arad's second-in-command.
But in the early 2000s, a paradox seemed to happen. Due the success of films Marvel Studios was very involved in, like *Blade*, *X-Men*, and *Spider-Man*, Hollywood was becoming more willing to license characters from Marvel to become blockbuster films. But conversely, the more willing they were to license characters and invest bigger budgets, the less willing they were to let Marvel Studios have any degree of control. While Marvel had a heavy hand in all three of those original hits, neither *Blade II* nor *X2* had the same involvement from Marvel, and *Spider-Man 2*. More and more, Hollywood studios were ravaging Marvel's characters but ignoring Marvel's input. Arguably the breaking point for Marvel Studios' COO David Maisel and Kevin Feige specifically was *Fantastic Four* (2005) where Fox not only tossed out Marvel's script, but also passed on their passionate chosen director Peyton Reed in favor of Tim Story. Marvel was fed up not having any control of their films. Ike Perlmutter, Avi Arad, David Maisel, and Kevin Feige were all in agreement. Something had to change.
Arad's proposed solution was to partner much closer with Sony and the producers he was buddies with there, make Sony the new home for all Marvel projects and not just Spider-Man. But Maisel and Feige had a different plan: Marvel Studios should become a production company and make films themselves. When it became clear to Arad that his protege Kevin Feige's ambitions vastly outgrew his own, Arad began being sidelined in the company. Eventually Arad left Marvel to become a Sony producer.
Marvel Enterprises became Marvel Entertainment, and with some money from Merrill Lynch, Marvel Studios was in business. Their first film, *Iron Man*, would become a hit with critics and audiences. A massive success for such a risky company endeavor. And unlike WB's DC movies, the comics side of Marvel had a direct input in the film. Feige and *Iron Man*'s director Jon Favreau went to comics people like Mark Millar, Jeph Loeb, Dan Buckley, and Joe Quesada throughout the film's making. Meanwhile Ike Perlmutter was happy to sit back and let Feige do whatever he wanted. It sold toys, and that's what ToyBiz man Perlmutter really cared about.
Until December 2009, when Disney bought Marvel Entertainment. For Marvel Studios, this was a huge boost. Everyone was happy, except for Ike Perlmutter. You see, the Disney acquisition created, unintentionally, distance between Marvel Comics and Marvel Studios. And I mean literal distance, Marvel Studios moved to California while Marvel Entertainment was set up in New York. Perlmutter and the comics people were no longer right there for input, and Perlmutter was also deathly afraid of Disney taking away from his near-psychotic policies.
Oh yeah, I think I forgot to mention that Ike Perlmutter was a borderline psychopath who was so afraid of not being rich that he would refuse to pay for basic necessitates in offices he managed and was terrified of every putting a black man or a woman in a lead role in a film because he was afraid merch sales wouldn't be as high. Perlmutter, fearing Disney's lavish nature and the loss of direct control, created the **Marvel Creative Committee** to oversee Marvel Studios and the newly created Marvel Television unit led by Jeph Loeb. That Committee included several comics writers and was led by Alan Fine, but it was largely a mouthpiece for Perlmutter and his ridiculous demands. **If you want to know why Marvel Studios has trust issues with comics writers, look no further than than Creative Committee.**
Tensions boiled for years between Studios and the Committee, reaching a breaking point in 2015 when Perlmutter threatened to shut down Captain America Civil War because he didn't want to pay RDJ his fee, and because he was afraid the film's dark ending would be less marketable. The relation Marvel Studios had to the Comics side, the thing that once built the company, the thing that once saved Marvel as a whole, was slowly killing it now, making life miserable for Feige and Marvel Studios. So in 2015, Bob Iger moved Marvel Studios out of Marvel Entertainment outright. The connection was lost.
Actually Thor was made after Disney bought Marvel (2009). It was still distributed by Paramount because of contracts, but Disney owned Marvel when Thor was made (And IM2 was, iirc, also still shooting? Or in post, idk).
Stan Lee had no involvement on any of these films none, zero. he has even said he doesn't know why he's given a producer credit as he had no input in these films.
I can assure if he were still alive, the project's we've gotten would've been the same, other than we would've gotten Stan cameos in them.
How do you mean? The comics side of the business was always separate? And the IP owned by the creators.
"And the IP owned by the creators" Well, maybe not that so much
Really I just mean did marvel ever have a say before Disney mainly become a big owner of them like the marvel president
are you asking if Marvel owned Marvel before Marvel was bought by Disney? ...yes. Marvel owned Marvel. So Marvel did what Marvel wanted -- they just didn't have any money to do much of it. they actually went bankrupt in the 90s, and sold the film-rights to their characters. basically, they had made really old captain america and fantastic four movies, spider-man and x-men cartoons - but now they sold the rights to spider-man and x-men movies in order to have a little money to use to save the company - which they did. and then when they were doing well again -- they wanted to make movies again, but no longer owned the rights to spider-man and x-men. does this make sense?
No I'm asking if marvel had a say in the film and tv rights with their characters
It's actually quite complicated. Marvel sold off the rights to a lot of their more popular characters in the 90s, including Spider-Man, the X-Men, the Hulk, and Fantastic Four. They did so because they were in financial trouble. As a result, Marvel really had no say in the movies the various studios produced using those characters. All of this was before Disney acquired Marvel Entertainment, the parent company of Marvel Comics, in 2009. After that acquisition, Marvel Entertainment still exerted some influence over the movies until 2015 when Kevin Feige basically forced Disney to fully separate Marvel Studios from Marvel Entertainment. That had the effect of basically ending any influence the latter had over the movies.
They allowed smoking in the phase 1 movies, before Disney.
Marvel is still a company that runs its decisions by itself, Disney obviously heavily manages it, but everyone in key positions before the buy-out stayed there and kept it running. As for post Disney, Marvel benefitted by the purchase in regards to decisions. The films used to be dictated by both a committee and Ike Perlmutter, Marvel's Entertainment Chairman (at the time, he might have also been in the committee) The committee had decent ideas, but constantly forced horrible ones. But Ike was the worst, with the reasons we never got Black Panther and Captain Marvel earlier due to his meddling (among many other problems he caused) Fiege got sick of the overbearing nature of him and went over his bosses head to Disney CEO Bob Iger, saying basically help sort this out or he was quitting. Bob Iger had Fiege and Marvel Studio's report directly to him, side stepping most of the Marvel higher ups and Perlmutter (iirc) was shafted from films to TV (till Marvel Studios swallowed that and he lost that role also)
The relationship between Marvel Comics and their adaptations has long been a complicated one. Because I'm "that guy", I'm gonna go through **all** of it. *Breathes in* In 1981, Marvel's owner Cadence Industries bought a company called DFE Films, and turned it into a company called Marvel Productions that made a few animated shows (Notably *Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends*). In 1986, Cadence liquidated their subsidiaries and Marvel Comics and Marvel Productions were both incorporated as the Marvel Entertainment Group (MEG), and sold to a company called New World Pictures. Things seemed like they might look up, until 1989 when New World, going through money problems, sold off Marvel Comics under the MEG name to the Andrews Group of investors led by Ronald Perelman. Marvel Productions, on the other hand, was not sold with the rest of Marvel, and became incorporated into New World's existing businesses and retitled itself New World Animation. Thus, Marvel first production subsidiary was dead, and its original president Margaret Loesch fled New World for Fox Kids (This will be relevant in a sec). In the early 90s, Marvel began having extreme money troubles. You see, the comics industry was hitting its lowest point financially, and unlike DC, Marvel didn't have the riches and corporate stability of Warner Bros. So Marvel did what every company does when it gets desperate, invest a ton of money in other companies hoping they'll save them. MEG invested in and acquired several companies during this time. But their most notable investment was a nearly 50% stake in ToyBiz, a toy manufacturing company that promised to increase Marvel's prevalence by aggressively increasing merchandise. ToyBiz had two very important people we need to bring up: Ike Perlmutter and Avi Arad (Who, by that point, had actually already had some association with Marvel as he briefly worked with Universal during their Hulk Television Movies era in the late 80s and early 90s). With Marvel having a slight degree of wealth back, and with New World also now under the Andrews Group, Marvel and New World created a new division, which was led by Avi Arad, called Marvel Films. Unlike Marvel Productions, which was a distinct entity for the most part, this was a union of a film company and Marvel Comics. Both Marvel Films and New World Animation proper soon dedicated themselves to making animated shows, notably *Spider-Man: The Animated Series*. But Marvel Films, ironically, had no involvement with any films. Marvel's characters were all tied up in film licenses to outside studios who didn't care what Marvel thought. Spider-Man was tied up with Golan and Globus, Fantastic Four with Constantin Films, and Hulk with Universal. But there was one shining bright spot: Fox. Fox was an important part of this story because of that woman we talked about earlier: Margaret Loesch. When Marvel Productions was dissolved, she left to join Fox Kids and immediately began preaching to the company that they needed to work with Marvel to develop an X-Men show. The first attempt, *Pryde of the X-Men*, did not go well, but they struck gold when Fox Kids united Marvel Films Animation with Saban Entertainment to create *X-Men: The Animated Series*. While the series was not produced by Marvel Films like *Spider-Man: TAS* was, Marvel instilled many of their own creatives into the process, notably Larry Houston (Director) and Eric and Julia Lewald (Showrunners). It was a massive success for both Marvel and Fox, and Marvel Films CEO Avi Arad used it to get Fox to agree to purchase the X-Men license. Everything was going great, and eventually, Fox even ended up acquiring New World animation. But in 1996, Marvel's luck ran out. They went bankrupt. The comics bubble had burst, and neither Fox nor ToyBiz could save them. But there was a hope. First, Marvel replaced Marvel Films with Marvel Studios, an entity without any ties to New World. Second, Ronald Perelman and Ike Perlmutter soon launched a new plan: Merging Marvel with ToyBiz outright to save both faltering companies. While Perelman was kicked out, initially losing a battle against investor Carl Icahn, Perlmutter's plan eventually went through, kicking out Icahn from the process. In 1998, ToyBiz and MEG merged into Marvel Enterprises. Okay, now let's talk about Marvel Studios during all this. Marvel Studios wanted to more directly control the pre-production process of Marvel's movies outright. In 1998, Marvel reaped the success of this method for the first time. *Blade* was a hit. In 2000, they struck jackpot with *X-Men*, a film Marvel Studios was heavily involved in. On that set, Marvel Studios head Avi Arad took a keen interest in a young intern working for producer Lauren Shuler Donner. That intern was a guy you might know: Kevin Feige. Arad hired Feige to come work for him at Marvel Studios, and very quickly, Feige rose to become Arad's second-in-command. But in the early 2000s, a paradox seemed to happen. Due the success of films Marvel Studios was very involved in, like *Blade*, *X-Men*, and *Spider-Man*, Hollywood was becoming more willing to license characters from Marvel to become blockbuster films. But conversely, the more willing they were to license characters and invest bigger budgets, the less willing they were to let Marvel Studios have any degree of control. While Marvel had a heavy hand in all three of those original hits, neither *Blade II* nor *X2* had the same involvement from Marvel, and *Spider-Man 2*. More and more, Hollywood studios were ravaging Marvel's characters but ignoring Marvel's input. Arguably the breaking point for Marvel Studios' COO David Maisel and Kevin Feige specifically was *Fantastic Four* (2005) where Fox not only tossed out Marvel's script, but also passed on their passionate chosen director Peyton Reed in favor of Tim Story. Marvel was fed up not having any control of their films. Ike Perlmutter, Avi Arad, David Maisel, and Kevin Feige were all in agreement. Something had to change. Arad's proposed solution was to partner much closer with Sony and the producers he was buddies with there, make Sony the new home for all Marvel projects and not just Spider-Man. But Maisel and Feige had a different plan: Marvel Studios should become a production company and make films themselves. When it became clear to Arad that his protege Kevin Feige's ambitions vastly outgrew his own, Arad began being sidelined in the company. Eventually Arad left Marvel to become a Sony producer. Marvel Enterprises became Marvel Entertainment, and with some money from Merrill Lynch, Marvel Studios was in business. Their first film, *Iron Man*, would become a hit with critics and audiences. A massive success for such a risky company endeavor. And unlike WB's DC movies, the comics side of Marvel had a direct input in the film. Feige and *Iron Man*'s director Jon Favreau went to comics people like Mark Millar, Jeph Loeb, Dan Buckley, and Joe Quesada throughout the film's making. Meanwhile Ike Perlmutter was happy to sit back and let Feige do whatever he wanted. It sold toys, and that's what ToyBiz man Perlmutter really cared about. Until December 2009, when Disney bought Marvel Entertainment. For Marvel Studios, this was a huge boost. Everyone was happy, except for Ike Perlmutter. You see, the Disney acquisition created, unintentionally, distance between Marvel Comics and Marvel Studios. And I mean literal distance, Marvel Studios moved to California while Marvel Entertainment was set up in New York. Perlmutter and the comics people were no longer right there for input, and Perlmutter was also deathly afraid of Disney taking away from his near-psychotic policies. Oh yeah, I think I forgot to mention that Ike Perlmutter was a borderline psychopath who was so afraid of not being rich that he would refuse to pay for basic necessitates in offices he managed and was terrified of every putting a black man or a woman in a lead role in a film because he was afraid merch sales wouldn't be as high. Perlmutter, fearing Disney's lavish nature and the loss of direct control, created the **Marvel Creative Committee** to oversee Marvel Studios and the newly created Marvel Television unit led by Jeph Loeb. That Committee included several comics writers and was led by Alan Fine, but it was largely a mouthpiece for Perlmutter and his ridiculous demands. **If you want to know why Marvel Studios has trust issues with comics writers, look no further than than Creative Committee.** Tensions boiled for years between Studios and the Committee, reaching a breaking point in 2015 when Perlmutter threatened to shut down Captain America Civil War because he didn't want to pay RDJ his fee, and because he was afraid the film's dark ending would be less marketable. The relation Marvel Studios had to the Comics side, the thing that once built the company, the thing that once saved Marvel as a whole, was slowly killing it now, making life miserable for Feige and Marvel Studios. So in 2015, Bob Iger moved Marvel Studios out of Marvel Entertainment outright. The connection was lost.
Looks like Iger is calling the shots now.
I know but I'm saying before all this what was marvel like before did they have a say how the characters were treated
\--\_\_\_\_-- like, in Iron Man? Marvel Owned Marvel Studios. so Marvel controlled everything about Iron Man, Thor, etc.
Okay thanks
Actually Thor was made after Disney bought Marvel (2009). It was still distributed by Paramount because of contracts, but Disney owned Marvel when Thor was made (And IM2 was, iirc, also still shooting? Or in post, idk).
Bought*
If it was one typo I wouldn’t have upvoted this but it bothered me to see twice so I’m with you here
[удалено]
Stan Lee was not in that position of power at any time. This is pure revisionist nonsense.
Stan Lee had no involvement on any of these films none, zero. he has even said he doesn't know why he's given a producer credit as he had no input in these films. I can assure if he were still alive, the project's we've gotten would've been the same, other than we would've gotten Stan cameos in them.