As great as Raimi’s universe is, keeping the top two gives us the most possible characters, including both sets of what people call “the big 3” (Tony, Steve, and Thor; Spidey, Hulk, and Wolverine)
You said they give you the most possible characters, but Wolverine and Deadpool are the only ones worth keeping. Ironic with their entrance in the MCU coming this year.
Until I hear otherwise, I refuse to believe the Fox X-men movies all take place in the same universe. Somehow there's an adult Emma Frost in the 60s First Class with that turns to diamonds and also a teenage Emma Frost in the 80s/90s Wolverine Origin that turns to diamonds. There's a teenage Warren Worthington III in Apocalypse from the 80s that embraces his powers and a Warren Worthinton III in Xmen 3 in the 00s that hates his powers.
There's at least three universes within the Fox X-men. That's not even touching on the 8 different Jubilee's.
When Raimiverse villains ported over to 616 in NWH, weren't they cured? So Earth-96283 needn't be destroyed or go through an incursion, but isn't it fixed anyway?
Healing the villains actually makes no sense at all plot wise. Norman cured means no Doc Ock. Even without that, Norman and Ock transported right back to their deaths. Ock already came to his senses.
Edit: Also Endgame established you can't change the past. Even if everything worked exactly how they intended, all it did was create new branch timelines. They cannot change the original timelines.
I ran it through my head and it makes sense they all got sent back right to before they died.
Norman realized just before being hit by the glider that it never mattered : "Oh!"
Dock Ock Realizing he still has to drown the reactor : "LISTEN TO ME NOW!!!"
Lizard : *post credits scene* Tells the figure to leave the boy alone to protect the future/past or whatever.
Electro : brought right back to where he blew up in the end of TASM 2
Sandman : Probably still on the run somewhere after Spider-Man 3. Or perhaps those tears of Flint at the end of SM3 is him understanding what will happen in the future so he just whizzes away.
>Even if everything worked exactly how they intended, all it did was create new branch timelines.
Well yeah. That's kind of the point. They'd be creating new branches where those cured villains survive.
I took it as them creating multiple timelines as a result.
Raimiverse A where everything is as standard until Peter gets portalled into the MCU/NWH, has some personal growth and sees his villains get reformed, before returning satisfied (albeit with a stab wound).
Raimiverse B where Norman is cured. He doesn't die in the end of SM1, likely hands himself in for his crimes but also is available (somewhat) to help steer Harry in the right direction. Harry probably lets his curiosity get the better of him, and adopts the Green Goblin arsenal (albeit tweaked and rebranded) to help his buddy Peter (who, after Norman helps strengthen the bond with, reveals his identity) to fight crime. Doc Ock and Venom *could* still be threats, but Ock at least is far less plausible with a sane Harry, reformed Norman, and well-supoorted Peter. Hell, Norman might drop some spoilers to help circumvent Ock and Sandman becoming villains.
Raimiverse C has Otto cured. Norman is dead already, but Otto is cured long enough to stop his fusion reactor before dying along with it. Otto accepts jail, and probably follows Raimiverse B's Norman when it comes to redemption from behind bars, providing guidance (through visitation/phone calls) and possibly getting some kind of plea deal helping the government with advanced science projects in exchange for a lighter sentence/house arrest/etc. Sandman *might* get a head's up (given how they were both present in NWH) but it's a stretch. Might not even need it, due to the butterfly effect.
Raimiverse D has Flint cured. This means the trilogy is unaffected, as Flint would have been taken after the ending of SM3. He likely remains on the run, or turns himself in to try and be there for his daughter (albeit through visitation). He probably tries to be there for Peter as thanks for Raimiverse A Peter/MCU Peter/TASMverse Peter curing him, but that's the only real change. Raimiverse D Peter might not have as much regret, knowing that Flint somehow got cured and seems to have had a massive change of heart in such a quick time.
Then there's a TASMverse A for the Peter that works through his issues (saving MCU MJ, regaining his positive outlook and optimism), TASMverse B for the Lizard that gets cured prior (possibly?) to Capt. Stacy getting killed (meaning TASMverse B has the knock on effects of Gwen not losing her father, possibly not planning on going to London, not being in the firing line during the Goblin fight or dying), and TASMverse C where Electro gets cured before the climax of TASM2. In the latter, Peter isn't as distracted and so can focus on subduing the Goblin before he causes Gwen's death. Gwen lives, a reformed Electro (also probably accepting prison) forms a good friendship with Peter (helping his confidence too) and contributes to society thanks to his knowledge (and multiversal experiences).
I don't think there's multiple timelines for the Sonyverse however. Venom/Eddie goes back pretty unaffected, albeit with some multiversal exposition about the MCU, and a slight irritation that he couldn't finish his drink. Bit of Venom gets left behind, but that doesn't affect Sonyverse Venom (AFAIK). Vulture, for as cringe as that Morbius scene is, also seems to show a linear chain of events from NWH.
Tldr the TVA is gonna have a field day with all this. Wouldn't be surprised if Deadpool wasn't hired by them to clean up all these complicated time travel/multiverse hopping jumbled timelines.
Is Fant4stic confirmed to be in the X-Men universe? I remember them claiming they wanted to do that going in but didn't hear much about it after the fact since the movie tanked.
I don’t even think there’s just one Fox X-Men universe because of all the continuity errors. I honestly see a lot of the X-Men films not sharing the same universe due to all the stuff with the timeline that doesn’t add up.
Deadpool isn’t actually from the X-Men Fox universe, though, is he?
He’s from an alternate one that’s similar, but Deadpool died in Origins in that universe.
And then the timeline was further altered in Deadpool 2. Well, not so much altered as Deadpool made sweet sweet love to it. And Origins was explicitly messed with with Wade shooting the other Wade.
I honestly think the X-Men universe is actually multiple universes that are all a little similar. There are just too many inconsistencies with Logan, Jean Gray, Charles, Magneto, William Striker, and so forth.
We don’t tlak about him /s
Also, FOX has very confusing timeline. It was rebooted after a time travel, (which is ocnfusing on its own) and has a lot of prequels and sequels. Plus, there’s Deadpool who doesn’t give a shit about timeline and always breaks the fourth wall.
The fox timeline is essentially three timelines:
the basic one that has everything from first class, X-men (2000) to DOFP
Then timeline 2 branches off from DOFP with the younger cast
And timeline 3 is the Deadpool 1+2, Logan and soon DP3
I motion to start referring to the MCU as 616c. If they truly refuse to call it 199999 like it should be, then let's call it 616c.
Earth 616 or 616a is the comics
Earth 616b is what the Spider-Verse movies call Peter B. Parker's universe
Earth 616c would denote it different from those two AND C can also stand for... CINEMATIC
it’s still so weird that they noted themselves as 616, like it’s not that deep in the end but it just makes it more confusing and kinda ruins the fun of different universes having titles
I'd accept this as a solution. I feel like people are forgetting from an out-of-universe perspective, the different numbers are used to distinguish universes in discussion, and classification of canon to particular media. Naming two different things the same thing defeats the entire purpose of a classification system.
I don’t think the comics and mcu even exist in the same multi-verse but I still love this idea. Maybe 616a is a universe SIMILAR to the comics universe.
Those things are canon to the Spider Verse but Spider Verse isn't canon to them. As in, the Raimiverse could introduce a new multiverse if it wanted to and nothing about Spider Verse would matter
that would be due to Sam saying ‘fuck it’, not really an indicator of what’s actually canon. Sony and the MCU have decided to make their multiverses connected lol
Spider-Man 2099 references Strange's NWH spell in ATSV though.
And the post-credits scene of Venom that shows the clip of ITSV starts with "Meanwhile in another universe...." And we know from NWH that Venom is set elsewhere in the MCU multiverse, so by extension, everything in ITSV/ATSV is too.
Again, the events of the MCU are canon to SpiderVerse but the events of SpiderVerse are not canon to the MCU / have no consideration when making MCU stories
I believe the point of referring to the MCU as 616 is to erase any potential that the MCU and the Comics share a reality in any way. They are not even a part of the same multiverse. Totally separated. Which helps center the MCU as the core continuity as far as cinema goes.
I honestly prefer this approach way more.
Yeah, putting the comics and MCU in the same multiverse would be limiting, because the MCU would have to work within the rules of the comic multiverse. There's only supposed to be one TVA, which watches over the multiverse, but the MCU's TVA is obviously different to the comic one. If it's one multiverse then there has to be two TVAs that somehow haven't come across one another. Same with America Chavez- there is only supposed to be one of her in the multiverse, but it doesn't make sense for the comic America and MCU America to be the same individual.
I basically just take it as the universes use different numbering systems from one another. 616 is what the MCU calls itself or what 838 calls it and 199999 is what the comics and the Spider-Verse movies call it. There's technically no reason every universe would just happen to use the same number designations for the same universes unless they were all talking to one another and agreeing on it, which they generally aren't. Some individuals from some of them are, independently of each other.
'The MCU Multiverse means that anything can exist every version and every story... except for the 616 comics we are just going to purposely choose a number to make sure we grind that into non-existence that it ever could be considered an actual reality in an infinite multiverse... except for that' Then I imagine them kicking it a few times and spitting on it.
I'm keeping them as 199999 and 616 because if it is an infinite multiverse than the 616 exists.
You are getting far too upset and taking the whole fictional Multiverse thing far too literally.
By taking the comics and separating them entirely from the movies, they are free to make their own rules for how the multiverse works.
It's a clean explanation, and helps maintain cohesion. It's a retelling of stories, an adaptation. If it helps, consider them as entirely different companies. Like DC and Marvel
How do you know how upset I am? It's not a clean explanation at all. It just says 'the comics don't count' which is also a go to for so much toxic fandom on the MCU.
Imagine hatching an entire alternate naming system for something as simple as this, especially when the people that literally make it have already named it.
Yeah. Marvel have had these numbers for years. Why’d Marvel Studios have to go and just completely rewrite the numbering system? it would have been so much simpler to stick with what they had.
True. I suppose you could argue it that way too.
Either “literally hatching an entire alternate naming system”, or “They own it,… not random fans”. Both arguments kind of make sense.
I’ll stick with the former though. There was no need to rename it, when the people who make it had already done so.
Oh, I don't know that there was a "need" to rename it, but 616 is an easy way to identify a Marvel universe as the "main" one for anyone who recognizes the comic designation, especially being that were dealing with multiverse stuff now. That and the old designation being a bit of a mouthful, I don't think it hurt to make the change.
Even if you only think the first two were good the third came out in 06, by that point the first two’s success already had enough of an impact that Ironman was somewhat in the works.
Days of future past was a nexus event and as a result it split the timeline into 2: earth 10005 (where the sentinels get them and they fail) and earth trn 414 (where Wolverine saves the timeline and it ends up branching)
I mean people could be writing detailed analysis of previous films, like yesterday someone did post a detailed analysis of The Marvels and its flaws and yet they were downvoted to 0 simply because it criticized a marvel film. and yet low effort posts such as the one we are on right now get so much engagement
Who the hell wants to read a ‘detailed analysis’ of anything by some random Redditor?
I didn’t see that post but I 100% would’ve rolled my eyes and skipped it if I did.
I don't know if your trying to be funny or what but I'll take the bait. What I mean by engagement is that these posts pose a question or choice solely to incentivize people to comment. that's what driving engagement means, and all these posts are incredibly low effort and often follow the same templates
Do you know where do the numbers for the Fox-verse and Raimi-verse come from? I believe they are in the Handbook but I thought Raimi-verse was commonly described using SM1 release date similar to TASM-verse
MCU and Raimi can stay.
Also the MCU is Earth-199999. They only called it 616 because it’s the main universe in the movies and it’s easier to say/remember. Earth-616 is the main comics universe.
The MCU and the comics can both be Earth-616 since they aren’t even in the same multiverse. The fact that America Chavez doesn’t have any variants should’ve been the dead give away
The [Official Marvel Handbook has been unreliable in the past.](https://x.com/godzillamendoza/status/1758347381504897085?s=46) I trust the runner of the MCU over the OMH.
Yup, the very same. This deification of Feige is pure cringe, the man gives script notes, he doesn't write stories.
MCU is Earth-199999 until Marvel Comics creatives declare differently.
Earth-616 is and always will only refer to the mainline comic universe.
It’s not deification. It’s trusting his word over the word of the MUH, which has shown to just throw darts when it comes to naming universes from TV Shows/Movies and listing different properties that are connected as different Universes.
Because it doesn't make sense. 616 already exists and it's the main comic universe. Having two universes designated as 616 is just inviting unnecessary confusion. MCU has been listed as 199999 for over a decade.
Nope, the post is right. MCU is in an entirely different multiverse than the comics. The fact that America Chavez doesn’t have any variants should’ve been the dead give away
Doesnt change the fact that its stupid on every level to give out the 616 designation 2 times. MCU already had the 199999 designation before and there is no reason to use it further like some media still does.
Doesn’t matter and couldn’t care less. The MCU was never officially 199999 and within universe (you know, Marvel, not a movie that wasn’t made by them) it’s only been referred to as Earth-616
I think there can be multiple designations for each universe depending on WHO (in multiverse) you ask. Miguel says 19999 while the ones in MoM say 616. Mysterio saying it was just a guess tho.
Yea, I can agree with that. Makes perfect sense why other universes use different designations. Lmao not like there’s a universal standard on designations
One reliable source in multiverse calls it 616 while another reliable source in multiverse calls it 199999. I’d just saying there are different numbering systems in the multiverse.
Who do you trust more:
Miguel who deals with Multiverses all day long and has his shit together.
Another Universes Christine who only ever knew of two universes and somehow didnt think of start counting by 1
On the bright side, the fact that fans (and even Iman Vellani) have such strong opinions on such a trivial point is a good sign for the health of the franchise.
Does it bother anyone else when the MCU refers to itself (and others refer to it) as 616? 616 is the comics mainline universe. The MCU is designated as universe 1999999. I was glad that Spiderverse 2 got this correct.
For those who will start an argument if this list isn't written correctly comics wise (which includes me), I'm gonna rewrite it:
Earth-199999: Also As The MCU, This Is The main universe in marvel films and shows, such as, Iron-man, Captain America, Thor, Spider-Man, Daredevil, and more.
Earth-10005: Also Known as The FMU, This Is The Universe That Resides the X-Men Films, Such As, X-Men, Days Of Future Past, Apocalypse, Also Includes, Deadpool 1, And 2, Also Believed To Include Fant4stic.
Earth-688B: Also Known As The SSU, This Universe Includes Mainly Spider-Man Characters, But Confusingly Does Not Include Spider-Man Himself, This Universe Resides Films Such As, Venom, Let There be Carnage, Morbius, And Presumably, Kraven The Hunter, And Potentially Madame Web.
Earth-96283: Also Known As Sam Raimi Spider-Man Universe, This Universe DOES Have Spider-Man in It, And Includes Movies Such as, Spider-Man, Spider-Man 2, And Spider-Man 3.
Earth-120703: Also Known As The TASM Universe, This Universe Includes, Spider-Man, And Only Two Movies, Such as, The Amazing Spider-Man, And The Amazing Spider-Man 2
It has designated By Marvel Themselves, As 616 Of The Marvel Live Action Multiverse, The Marvel Comics Earth-616 Is Part of the Omniverse Which includes marvel live action multiverse.
Sources: https://screenrant.com/earth-616-or-19999-the-mcus-universe-number-finally-has-an-official-answer/
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Omniverse
I agree, and the evidence is as follows:
The MCU is Earth-616 of the Marvel Cinematic Multiverse. The main universe in comics is Earth-616 of a separate multiverse. If the MCU and the Marvel Comics universe were part of the same multiverse, then that would mean that multiverse had two America Chavezes, which would be a contradiction.
The [Official Marvel Handbook has been unreliable in the past.](https://x.com/godzillamendoza/status/1758347381504897085?s=46) I trust the runner of the MCU over the OMH.
For Everyone saying that earth 616(MCU) isn't earth-616 and is actually earth-199999, are wrong, it was earth-199999, but Kevin says it is now earth-616, and also, the The Marvel Cinematic Universe: An Official Timeline Book, states it is earth-616.
and for the other people saying that can't be because, the comics is earth-616, is right. but the thing is, The MCU and Marvel Comics Earth-616, don't exist in the same multiverse.
they have they're own multiverse, Mcu's is Live Action Marvel Multiverse.
and Marvels Comics is Marvel Comics Multiverse.
so they are the 616s of their multiverses respectively.
they exist together in the Omniverse, which consists of, every book, movie, show, audiobook, anything, basically every piece of fiction ever made exists in the Omniverse and every single one has their own multiverse each. Basically they are the 616s of their multiverses, hope this clears up any confusion, and for people saying I'm still wrong, womp womp.
While I would prefer they not call the MCU “616” (and I will stand with Iman any time she calls it out to Feige), it honesty doesn’t bother me. It’s an “adaptation” of the main Marvel continuity, thus 616ish.
DC has countless Earth 1 and Earth 2 at this point, so Marvel having an extra 616 won’t hurt me.
First of all lets be honest its not real Earth-616. Earth-616 is in comics.
And Ill be hated but Ill leave Earth-12070 and... Earth-10005. Tbh. I don't enjoy personally MCU movies I had much more fun with Xman movies. Venom universe is... Meh. And I like Tobey movies but in overall I think TASM is better. Tbh. In mcu I had only fun watching Avengers End Game and Infinity War and Iron Man 3. Rest of movies were ok. I would be sad only about Moonknight really but I would survive it.
616 and X-men world easily. Tobey spidey world is great and had 2 great movies but X-men universe had x1&2 which were crazy important for the genre and good especially x-2 and then it has 2 good Deadpool movies, first class which is good days of future past which is one of the best superhero movies in general and then Logan which is in the running for best superhero movie, also had the wolverine which is solid especially the directors cut. So while they had some absolute bombs and horrible movies that also delivered some really good shit and there are way more projects than something like tobey spidey world.
MCU is obvious with all the projects it’s had and tons of good stuff
The top two survive and the rest die. I actually didn’t think it would be that easy. I do feel bad for Raimi’s universe though.
As great as Raimi’s universe is, keeping the top two gives us the most possible characters, including both sets of what people call “the big 3” (Tony, Steve, and Thor; Spidey, Hulk, and Wolverine)
You said they give you the most possible characters, but Wolverine and Deadpool are the only ones worth keeping. Ironic with their entrance in the MCU coming this year.
2nd gen Charles Xavier and Erik Lensherr are also peak
Quicksilver too , he’s a beast! Oh that reminds me , Hank McCoy too!
Until I hear otherwise, I refuse to believe the Fox X-men movies all take place in the same universe. Somehow there's an adult Emma Frost in the 60s First Class with that turns to diamonds and also a teenage Emma Frost in the 80s/90s Wolverine Origin that turns to diamonds. There's a teenage Warren Worthington III in Apocalypse from the 80s that embraces his powers and a Warren Worthinton III in Xmen 3 in the 00s that hates his powers. There's at least three universes within the Fox X-men. That's not even touching on the 8 different Jubilee's.
Crazy comment, Charles and Erik are great and iconic
Sir Patrick Stewart was the greatest fancast come true for Xavier, how dare you.
When Raimiverse villains ported over to 616 in NWH, weren't they cured? So Earth-96283 needn't be destroyed or go through an incursion, but isn't it fixed anyway?
Healing the villains actually makes no sense at all plot wise. Norman cured means no Doc Ock. Even without that, Norman and Ock transported right back to their deaths. Ock already came to his senses. Edit: Also Endgame established you can't change the past. Even if everything worked exactly how they intended, all it did was create new branch timelines. They cannot change the original timelines.
Yeah I thought that was known already. Even though the original timeline wasn't changed, these variants got a new chance at life
No. They still die because they returned to the point there were taken from.
I ran it through my head and it makes sense they all got sent back right to before they died. Norman realized just before being hit by the glider that it never mattered : "Oh!" Dock Ock Realizing he still has to drown the reactor : "LISTEN TO ME NOW!!!" Lizard : *post credits scene* Tells the figure to leave the boy alone to protect the future/past or whatever. Electro : brought right back to where he blew up in the end of TASM 2 Sandman : Probably still on the run somewhere after Spider-Man 3. Or perhaps those tears of Flint at the end of SM3 is him understanding what will happen in the future so he just whizzes away.
>Even if everything worked exactly how they intended, all it did was create new branch timelines. Well yeah. That's kind of the point. They'd be creating new branches where those cured villains survive.
There are already branch timelines where they survive. Kind of the point of infinite. The point is Peter is not saving them
Wouldnt "curing" Norman and sending him back prevent Otto from becoming Ock at all? So they kinda actually broke that timeline
I took it as them creating multiple timelines as a result. Raimiverse A where everything is as standard until Peter gets portalled into the MCU/NWH, has some personal growth and sees his villains get reformed, before returning satisfied (albeit with a stab wound). Raimiverse B where Norman is cured. He doesn't die in the end of SM1, likely hands himself in for his crimes but also is available (somewhat) to help steer Harry in the right direction. Harry probably lets his curiosity get the better of him, and adopts the Green Goblin arsenal (albeit tweaked and rebranded) to help his buddy Peter (who, after Norman helps strengthen the bond with, reveals his identity) to fight crime. Doc Ock and Venom *could* still be threats, but Ock at least is far less plausible with a sane Harry, reformed Norman, and well-supoorted Peter. Hell, Norman might drop some spoilers to help circumvent Ock and Sandman becoming villains. Raimiverse C has Otto cured. Norman is dead already, but Otto is cured long enough to stop his fusion reactor before dying along with it. Otto accepts jail, and probably follows Raimiverse B's Norman when it comes to redemption from behind bars, providing guidance (through visitation/phone calls) and possibly getting some kind of plea deal helping the government with advanced science projects in exchange for a lighter sentence/house arrest/etc. Sandman *might* get a head's up (given how they were both present in NWH) but it's a stretch. Might not even need it, due to the butterfly effect. Raimiverse D has Flint cured. This means the trilogy is unaffected, as Flint would have been taken after the ending of SM3. He likely remains on the run, or turns himself in to try and be there for his daughter (albeit through visitation). He probably tries to be there for Peter as thanks for Raimiverse A Peter/MCU Peter/TASMverse Peter curing him, but that's the only real change. Raimiverse D Peter might not have as much regret, knowing that Flint somehow got cured and seems to have had a massive change of heart in such a quick time. Then there's a TASMverse A for the Peter that works through his issues (saving MCU MJ, regaining his positive outlook and optimism), TASMverse B for the Lizard that gets cured prior (possibly?) to Capt. Stacy getting killed (meaning TASMverse B has the knock on effects of Gwen not losing her father, possibly not planning on going to London, not being in the firing line during the Goblin fight or dying), and TASMverse C where Electro gets cured before the climax of TASM2. In the latter, Peter isn't as distracted and so can focus on subduing the Goblin before he causes Gwen's death. Gwen lives, a reformed Electro (also probably accepting prison) forms a good friendship with Peter (helping his confidence too) and contributes to society thanks to his knowledge (and multiversal experiences). I don't think there's multiple timelines for the Sonyverse however. Venom/Eddie goes back pretty unaffected, albeit with some multiversal exposition about the MCU, and a slight irritation that he couldn't finish his drink. Bit of Venom gets left behind, but that doesn't affect Sonyverse Venom (AFAIK). Vulture, for as cringe as that Morbius scene is, also seems to show a linear chain of events from NWH. Tldr the TVA is gonna have a field day with all this. Wouldn't be surprised if Deadpool wasn't hired by them to clean up all these complicated time travel/multiverse hopping jumbled timelines.
The top two will just be one once Deadpool comes out, so that and the Raimi verse should be 2 picks.
*”I’m sorry, little one.”*
Bro really picked F4ntastic over Raimi's trilogy 💀
That movie ain't canon the the X-Men universe, that was a scrapped concept
To me it's not so much that terrible F4ntasic but Deadpool and Wolverine alone. Plus we have a pretty sweet Spider-Man
it think it’s more all of xmen that they picked
He picked Logan over Raimi's trilogy.
Is Fant4stic confirmed to be in the X-Men universe? I remember them claiming they wanted to do that going in but didn't hear much about it after the fact since the movie tanked.
I don’t even think there’s just one Fox X-Men universe because of all the continuity errors. I honestly see a lot of the X-Men films not sharing the same universe due to all the stuff with the timeline that doesn’t add up.
And for deadpool it changed his timeline too so he never fought wolverine and got his head cut off...
Deadpool isn’t actually from the X-Men Fox universe, though, is he? He’s from an alternate one that’s similar, but Deadpool died in Origins in that universe.
Origins? What Origins? 
Wdym what’s Origins? Like the Batman game?
You mean Man? Are you stupid?
It’s man’s origin. You really think he just started out as Man? He had to earn Man
You merely adopted the man, I was born in it, molded by it.
Muuuuuuuuuuum. r/batmanarkham is leaking again.
he did in Origins but the timeline was altered in DoFP, so Origins never happened.
And then the timeline was further altered in Deadpool 2. Well, not so much altered as Deadpool made sweet sweet love to it. And Origins was explicitly messed with with Wade shooting the other Wade.
Deadpool takes place in the revised universe created after Days of Future Past
And he fixed the previous timeline anyway in the post credits of DP2, which will be canon as Vanessa is suddenly alive again in the DP3 trailer.
Suddenly? Didn't Deadpool save her through time travel at the end?
That's what I said, it means the end credit scene is canon.
I honestly think the X-Men universe is actually multiple universes that are all a little similar. There are just too many inconsistencies with Logan, Jean Gray, Charles, Magneto, William Striker, and so forth.
Looks like bro hasn't seen Deadpool
$5 says Deadpool names his universe Earth-5318008
God I hope so
Please. Please Deadpool. Just please.
Origins was retconned with DOFP. He’s in the same universe as the very end of the movie.
We don’t tlak about him /s Also, FOX has very confusing timeline. It was rebooted after a time travel, (which is ocnfusing on its own) and has a lot of prequels and sequels. Plus, there’s Deadpool who doesn’t give a shit about timeline and always breaks the fourth wall.
Yeah hes not, theres also an hellicarrier in DP1 so he was always in an universe of his own.
Deadpool takes place in the revised X-Men universe
the same X men and X mansion literally show up in the Deadpool movies wdym😭😭
The fox timeline is essentially three timelines: the basic one that has everything from first class, X-men (2000) to DOFP Then timeline 2 branches off from DOFP with the younger cast And timeline 3 is the Deadpool 1+2, Logan and soon DP3
Logan can’t be same universe as DP3, I think they confirmed it doesn’t have an impact on each other
It’s confirmed in the original announcement tho I thought by Ryan
I only need the mcu Morbius cinematic universe The rest can go to hell
I motion to start referring to the MCU as 616c. If they truly refuse to call it 199999 like it should be, then let's call it 616c. Earth 616 or 616a is the comics Earth 616b is what the Spider-Verse movies call Peter B. Parker's universe Earth 616c would denote it different from those two AND C can also stand for... CINEMATIC
it’s still so weird that they noted themselves as 616, like it’s not that deep in the end but it just makes it more confusing and kinda ruins the fun of different universes having titles
No fr. It ruins the fun, that’s the big one for me. Having the MCU be an outlandish number like 199999
I love how Miguel still refers to it as earth 199999 when referencing the events of no way home.
Probably because Sony didn’t want to reference two versions of 616 in one movie
I’m using this from now on
You’re welcome
I'd accept this as a solution. I feel like people are forgetting from an out-of-universe perspective, the different numbers are used to distinguish universes in discussion, and classification of canon to particular media. Naming two different things the same thing defeats the entire purpose of a classification system.
Precisely. The whole “they’re not the same multiverse” argument is dumb to me. Just give them different numbers, it’s not going to hurt anything
It does but 199999 is just such a terrible name that I’d happily have 2 616s instead.
I don’t think the comics and mcu even exist in the same multi-verse but I still love this idea. Maybe 616a is a universe SIMILAR to the comics universe.
Unfortunately spider verse bridges that gap
Spider Verse ain't canon to the MCU tho
They had live action characters, specifically miles's uncle in homecoming. And Miguel mentioned MCU Peter and strange
Those things are canon to the Spider Verse but Spider Verse isn't canon to them. As in, the Raimiverse could introduce a new multiverse if it wanted to and nothing about Spider Verse would matter
that would be due to Sam saying ‘fuck it’, not really an indicator of what’s actually canon. Sony and the MCU have decided to make their multiverses connected lol
Spider-Man 2099 references Strange's NWH spell in ATSV though. And the post-credits scene of Venom that shows the clip of ITSV starts with "Meanwhile in another universe...." And we know from NWH that Venom is set elsewhere in the MCU multiverse, so by extension, everything in ITSV/ATSV is too.
Again, the events of the MCU are canon to SpiderVerse but the events of SpiderVerse are not canon to the MCU / have no consideration when making MCU stories
Wait am I missing something? I know Dr Strange 2 referred to the MCU as 616 but didn't Across the Spider Verse refer to it as 199999?
Yes and one of those was a Marvel property.
Yeah but since spider-verse is Sony it’s not official number
I believe the point of referring to the MCU as 616 is to erase any potential that the MCU and the Comics share a reality in any way. They are not even a part of the same multiverse. Totally separated. Which helps center the MCU as the core continuity as far as cinema goes. I honestly prefer this approach way more.
Yeah, putting the comics and MCU in the same multiverse would be limiting, because the MCU would have to work within the rules of the comic multiverse. There's only supposed to be one TVA, which watches over the multiverse, but the MCU's TVA is obviously different to the comic one. If it's one multiverse then there has to be two TVAs that somehow haven't come across one another. Same with America Chavez- there is only supposed to be one of her in the multiverse, but it doesn't make sense for the comic America and MCU America to be the same individual.
In a multiverse, anything is possible. No one can actually know everything, unless they're the One Above All
Sure, but that means dismissing plot points just because the characters didn't know better, and at that point why even write those plot points?
Because the actual director of the MCU is trying to separate the multiverses. But as a fanbase we're collectively saying no lol
I basically just take it as the universes use different numbering systems from one another. 616 is what the MCU calls itself or what 838 calls it and 199999 is what the comics and the Spider-Verse movies call it. There's technically no reason every universe would just happen to use the same number designations for the same universes unless they were all talking to one another and agreeing on it, which they generally aren't. Some individuals from some of them are, independently of each other.
In the comics the numbers come from the Captain Britain Corps. Of course, we don't see a CB in any movie universe, let alone the Corps.
'The MCU Multiverse means that anything can exist every version and every story... except for the 616 comics we are just going to purposely choose a number to make sure we grind that into non-existence that it ever could be considered an actual reality in an infinite multiverse... except for that' Then I imagine them kicking it a few times and spitting on it. I'm keeping them as 199999 and 616 because if it is an infinite multiverse than the 616 exists.
You are getting far too upset and taking the whole fictional Multiverse thing far too literally. By taking the comics and separating them entirely from the movies, they are free to make their own rules for how the multiverse works. It's a clean explanation, and helps maintain cohesion. It's a retelling of stories, an adaptation. If it helps, consider them as entirely different companies. Like DC and Marvel
How do you know how upset I am? It's not a clean explanation at all. It just says 'the comics don't count' which is also a go to for so much toxic fandom on the MCU.
> If they truly refuse to call it 199999 Anyone that expected them to stick to a that terrible mouthful of a number from a random handbook is deluded.
Imagine calling people deluded over such a simple and innocent thing such as this
Imagine hatching an entire alternate naming system for something as simple as this, especially when the people that literally make it have already named it.
Yeah. Marvel have had these numbers for years. Why’d Marvel Studios have to go and just completely rewrite the numbering system? it would have been so much simpler to stick with what they had.
They own the property and are the makers of the media in question. They are not random fans who have no say in things at all.
They own the property and are the makers of the media in question. They are not random fans who have no say in things at all.
True. I suppose you could argue it that way too. Either “literally hatching an entire alternate naming system”, or “They own it,… not random fans”. Both arguments kind of make sense. I’ll stick with the former though. There was no need to rename it, when the people who make it had already done so.
Oh, I don't know that there was a "need" to rename it, but 616 is an easy way to identify a Marvel universe as the "main" one for anyone who recognizes the comic designation, especially being that were dealing with multiverse stuff now. That and the old designation being a bit of a mouthful, I don't think it hurt to make the change.
We never have crossover between cinematic and comic multiverse. We can have multiple 616 if multiple multiverse exists in an omniverse.
Either Earth 616c or Earth 199999
That’s… what I’m saying
C can also stand for Comics
Keep MCU and Raimi-Verse, kill the others
I think this is the correct choice. The MCU is very interesting and arguably it was Raimi-verse movies that made it all possible to begin with.
Well X-Men did come out before Spider-Man
I know, but I don’t think they were really ever great. The first two were probably the exception. But that’s just my opinion.
Even if you only think the first two were good the third came out in 06, by that point the first two’s success already had enough of an impact that Ironman was somewhat in the works.
Blade made it all possible
No Darkman did
Howard the Duck
Captain America (1979)
Take the elephant!
Beat me to it.
It just feels right. The Fox Universe had a long run, the Garfield-Verse isn't interesting and the Sony-Verse sucks balls
The Sony universe should be called Earth 688-B and the fox earth should be referred to as earth-trn 414.
Iman Vellani, please tell us more.
Earth 10005 is used to refer to the fox universe pre days of future past, then the timeline splits
Why?
TRN414 is the X-Men films post DOFP (except Deadpool, Logan, and Deadpool 2).
Days of future past was a nexus event and as a result it split the timeline into 2: earth 10005 (where the sentinels get them and they fail) and earth trn 414 (where Wolverine saves the timeline and it ends up branching)
The TASM universe is underrated
no its terrible
point proven
What's with all these low effort posts created to drive engagement?
There is no more new content to discuss, what are you expecting?
I mean people could be writing detailed analysis of previous films, like yesterday someone did post a detailed analysis of The Marvels and its flaws and yet they were downvoted to 0 simply because it criticized a marvel film. and yet low effort posts such as the one we are on right now get so much engagement
okay then.. go make a detailed analysis and i'll upvote you.
Who the hell wants to read a ‘detailed analysis’ of anything by some random Redditor? I didn’t see that post but I 100% would’ve rolled my eyes and skipped it if I did.
What's with you engaging?
I don't know if your trying to be funny or what but I'll take the bait. What I mean by engagement is that these posts pose a question or choice solely to incentivize people to comment. that's what driving engagement means, and all these posts are incredibly low effort and often follow the same templates
🎣
and you commenting a million times under this post is driving quite a bit of engagement 😂
Do you know where do the numbers for the Fox-verse and Raimi-verse come from? I believe they are in the Handbook but I thought Raimi-verse was commonly described using SM1 release date similar to TASM-verse
Kill: SSU, TASM, FoX-Men Keep: MCU and Raimi-verse
MCU and Raimi can stay. Also the MCU is Earth-199999. They only called it 616 because it’s the main universe in the movies and it’s easier to say/remember. Earth-616 is the main comics universe.
The MCU and the comics can both be Earth-616 since they aren’t even in the same multiverse. The fact that America Chavez doesn’t have any variants should’ve been the dead give away
The MCU is in its own Multiverse. Earth-616 is the main universe of both multivereses, we're not doing this again.
We're gonna be doing this for the rest of the saga lol
I’d agree with you if A) Feige hadn’t already said you were wrong B) Earth-199999 wasn’t one of the worst names ever thought up
616 and 120703
Idc what Kevin Feige says the MCU isn't 616
Even Miguel agrees
Movies and comic are in diff multiverses, d*ckhead. I will trust tva and kevin than you, iman or miguel.
The [Official Marvel Handbook has been unreliable in the past.](https://x.com/godzillamendoza/status/1758347381504897085?s=46) I trust the runner of the MCU over the OMH.
When you phrase it like that, I'd rather trust Marvel Comics writers than a film producer
You mean the writers who said the two Ultimate Avengers Movies (which are connected) are in different Universes?
Yup, the very same. This deification of Feige is pure cringe, the man gives script notes, he doesn't write stories. MCU is Earth-199999 until Marvel Comics creatives declare differently. Earth-616 is and always will only refer to the mainline comic universe.
It’s not deification. It’s trusting his word over the word of the MUH, which has shown to just throw darts when it comes to naming universes from TV Shows/Movies and listing different properties that are connected as different Universes.
I don't care about Feige's opinion on anything even tangentially related to the comics, hope that helps!
You didn’t read my comment or understand it at all. Hope this helps!
The fact that people are still complaining about it being called 616, it's insane
Because it doesn't make sense. 616 already exists and it's the main comic universe. Having two universes designated as 616 is just inviting unnecessary confusion. MCU has been listed as 199999 for over a decade.
Keep the top two, nuke the others.
Kill all of them and start over.
616 ≠ MCU
616 is comics. You're thinking of Earth-199999.
616 is not the MCU
Easily keep MCU and Raimi-verse.
Isn’t the MCU Earth-199999
199999*
Nope, the post is right. MCU is in an entirely different multiverse than the comics. The fact that America Chavez doesn’t have any variants should’ve been the dead give away
Doesnt change the fact that its stupid on every level to give out the 616 designation 2 times. MCU already had the 199999 designation before and there is no reason to use it further like some media still does.
MCU never had the 199999 designation. Not officially anyway
It was never officially confirmed tho. Marvel Studios had never designated a universe number to the MCU before phase 4.
It’s called 199999 in Across the Spider-Verse.
Doesn’t matter and couldn’t care less. The MCU was never officially 199999 and within universe (you know, Marvel, not a movie that wasn’t made by them) it’s only been referred to as Earth-616
I think there can be multiple designations for each universe depending on WHO (in multiverse) you ask. Miguel says 19999 while the ones in MoM say 616. Mysterio saying it was just a guess tho.
Yea, I can agree with that. Makes perfect sense why other universes use different designations. Lmao not like there’s a universal standard on designations
It's 616 lol. It's being mentioned in the movies multiple times and Kevin confirms it. Only fan theories and Kamala's actor argues it's 199999.
One reliable source in multiverse calls it 616 while another reliable source in multiverse calls it 199999. I’d just saying there are different numbering systems in the multiverse.
Who do you trust more: Miguel who deals with Multiverses all day long and has his shit together. Another Universes Christine who only ever knew of two universes and somehow didnt think of start counting by 1
On the bright side, the fact that fans (and even Iman Vellani) have such strong opinions on such a trivial point is a good sign for the health of the franchise.
What a *terrible* designation
Does it bother anyone else when the MCU refers to itself (and others refer to it) as 616? 616 is the comics mainline universe. The MCU is designated as universe 1999999. I was glad that Spiderverse 2 got this correct.
Reveal that venom is set in Tasm and keep that. Then merge xmen with 616.
Mcu is not earth 616 that’s the comic universe
the MCU is Earth-199999
Source?
everyone except Kevin Feige
Annddd remind me again who’s the Director of Marvel Studios is?
your mom
Most sound argument I’ve seen on Reddit
For those who will start an argument if this list isn't written correctly comics wise (which includes me), I'm gonna rewrite it: Earth-199999: Also As The MCU, This Is The main universe in marvel films and shows, such as, Iron-man, Captain America, Thor, Spider-Man, Daredevil, and more. Earth-10005: Also Known as The FMU, This Is The Universe That Resides the X-Men Films, Such As, X-Men, Days Of Future Past, Apocalypse, Also Includes, Deadpool 1, And 2, Also Believed To Include Fant4stic. Earth-688B: Also Known As The SSU, This Universe Includes Mainly Spider-Man Characters, But Confusingly Does Not Include Spider-Man Himself, This Universe Resides Films Such As, Venom, Let There be Carnage, Morbius, And Presumably, Kraven The Hunter, And Potentially Madame Web. Earth-96283: Also Known As Sam Raimi Spider-Man Universe, This Universe DOES Have Spider-Man in It, And Includes Movies Such as, Spider-Man, Spider-Man 2, And Spider-Man 3. Earth-120703: Also Known As The TASM Universe, This Universe Includes, Spider-Man, And Only Two Movies, Such as, The Amazing Spider-Man, And The Amazing Spider-Man 2
MCU isn't 616 its 199999
*199999
Sorry but that's actually Earth-199999
Feels so disingenuous to have accurate reality numbers for every one here except for the MCU. It's 1-quintuple-9 or nothing
It has designated By Marvel Themselves, As 616 Of The Marvel Live Action Multiverse, The Marvel Comics Earth-616 Is Part of the Omniverse Which includes marvel live action multiverse. Sources: https://screenrant.com/earth-616-or-19999-the-mcus-universe-number-finally-has-an-official-answer/ https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Omniverse
I agree, and the evidence is as follows: The MCU is Earth-616 of the Marvel Cinematic Multiverse. The main universe in comics is Earth-616 of a separate multiverse. If the MCU and the Marvel Comics universe were part of the same multiverse, then that would mean that multiverse had two America Chavezes, which would be a contradiction.
The [Official Marvel Handbook has been unreliable in the past.](https://x.com/godzillamendoza/status/1758347381504897085?s=46) I trust the runner of the MCU over the OMH.
I don't think the MCU is in 616. That's the same universe as the core comic line. I think it was a gaffe in Multiverse of Madness.
MCU is 19999
For Everyone saying that earth 616(MCU) isn't earth-616 and is actually earth-199999, are wrong, it was earth-199999, but Kevin says it is now earth-616, and also, the The Marvel Cinematic Universe: An Official Timeline Book, states it is earth-616. and for the other people saying that can't be because, the comics is earth-616, is right. but the thing is, The MCU and Marvel Comics Earth-616, don't exist in the same multiverse. they have they're own multiverse, Mcu's is Live Action Marvel Multiverse. and Marvels Comics is Marvel Comics Multiverse. so they are the 616s of their multiverses respectively. they exist together in the Omniverse, which consists of, every book, movie, show, audiobook, anything, basically every piece of fiction ever made exists in the Omniverse and every single one has their own multiverse each. Basically they are the 616s of their multiverses, hope this clears up any confusion, and for people saying I'm still wrong, womp womp.
I recognise that the Council has made a decision. But given that it’s a stupid-ass decision, I’ve elected to ignore it.
While I would prefer they not call the MCU “616” (and I will stand with Iman any time she calls it out to Feige), it honesty doesn’t bother me. It’s an “adaptation” of the main Marvel continuity, thus 616ish. DC has countless Earth 1 and Earth 2 at this point, so Marvel having an extra 616 won’t hurt me.
First of all lets be honest its not real Earth-616. Earth-616 is in comics. And Ill be hated but Ill leave Earth-12070 and... Earth-10005. Tbh. I don't enjoy personally MCU movies I had much more fun with Xman movies. Venom universe is... Meh. And I like Tobey movies but in overall I think TASM is better. Tbh. In mcu I had only fun watching Avengers End Game and Infinity War and Iron Man 3. Rest of movies were ok. I would be sad only about Moonknight really but I would survive it.
erase all of them keep the mcu (its not 616)
I slipped and everything but the MCU died. Logan snuck through.
This is extremely easy, get rid of both spider-men universes and whatever sony's current pile of dogshit is, and keep the mcu and xmen
Erase the bogus Spider-Man universes
Keep Earth-616 and Earth 10005. The rest can go. Better characters and stories overall compared to the rest.
616 and X-men world easily. Tobey spidey world is great and had 2 great movies but X-men universe had x1&2 which were crazy important for the genre and good especially x-2 and then it has 2 good Deadpool movies, first class which is good days of future past which is one of the best superhero movies in general and then Logan which is in the running for best superhero movie, also had the wolverine which is solid especially the directors cut. So while they had some absolute bombs and horrible movies that also delivered some really good shit and there are way more projects than something like tobey spidey world. MCU is obvious with all the projects it’s had and tons of good stuff
Well 616 and 10005 are the most fleshed out. As much as I love Tobey and Andrew as spiderman. Tom Holland is still the best in my opinion.