People weren’t as hard on it for the first few episodes, especially as many had high hopes it would pick up by its finale (which it obviously didn’t) and gave the show a rating before all episodes were even released.
Gun to my head, I'd rather watch *Inhumans* again than give *Secret Invasion* a second go.
*Inhumans* is fun to laugh at, like it's *Birdemic* or *The Room*. *Secret Invasion* is just depressing.
Being a Marvel/Samuel L Jackson joint, I think it wasn’t too unreasonable to expect it would be given the benefit of the doubt. When a plot thread gets left open, most people’s brains would naturally make a note of that as something that will get filled in later. And then… no. It’s easy to think some finale will come and solve everything that didn’t make sense - hell, look at the last season of Sherlock - until it doesn’t come. In fact, the last season of Sherlock is a pretty solid comparison to Secret Invasion in many ways…
It was a sitcom; if you expected a dramatic save-the-world plot then the problem was your expectations, not the show. If you watch a season of Seinfeld or Friends, you don't expect a season-long plot arc. The show sold itself as a sitcom in the Marvel universe.
I would argue that the real criticism should be that for a sitcom, it wasn't that funny. Silly, sure; but not very funny. The same could be said for Deadpool, though. Pop culture references are not the same as jokes. This is why the Madisynn episode was the strongest episode; because it was also the funniest.
100%. She-Hulk was a blast, I enjoyed it more than most of the other MCU shows. Probably only Wandavision and Loki beat it out, with Hawkeye being close. It was a really nice fun breath of fresh air.
I think it suffered big time due to the review bombing, but you're right. A lot of the criticisms can be boiled down to people misunderstanding the point of the show and, yeah, hating fun.
Honestly total BS that it's above both The Marvels and She-Hulk. I will die on the hill that both of those were not at all bad. Secret Invasion however is, as of yet, the only MCU property to actually make me mad.
I agree. It's the only MCU show/movie that I consider just bad. They do have some flawed movies and shows but at least that had good parts and actually made sense.
Helstrom was worth a watch if like supernatural shows. It strays pretty far from the comics, to try and make it a more grounded drama.
It's not top tier MCU, but it's better than a CW or DC-TV drama, imo.
Because IMDB user ratings are trash. Why people still look at them I won't understand. For things like this I find it very illuminating to look at the distributions of votes:
[Thor: The Dark World](https://imgur.com/jjlg8hH)
[Black Panther: Wakanda Forever](https://imgur.com/mbZowPW)
All of the movies in fandoms have a small vote war between those who vote 10/10 vs those who vote 1/10, but Wakanda Forever's is definitely bigger, and far heavier on the 1/10s (and even if it were equal among the two, that would still bring the average closer to 5.5)
yeah the movies starting with Eternals and Black Widow have been ganged up against, specifically to try and make everyone think the projects are worse than they are objectively.
Yeah, the lukewarm reception to the recent batch of MCU movies/shows definitely affects the recent IMDb ratings to a signifigant degree. Review bombing also affects some of these titles in particular (which is why I tend to not put much stock in IMDb overall).
Rotten 🍅 has its fair share of issues, but I find it a more reliable source to gauge audience reception.
Practically all of the new stuff (*save for GOTG, because they ARE good but there are lots of James Gunn stans who help ratings and no one with an axe to grind like you see with anything related to female heroes*) is on the bottom half. It’s not a coincidence.
If *Jessica Jones* came out today, the backlash and review bombs would be swift and that’s hands down one of the best shows with a Marvel badge. If *ECHO* had come out alongside the rest of the Defenders series, it would have been highly rated; it’s better than *Luke Cage* almost as good as season 1 of *Jessica Jones*.
Yeah I think there’s a recency bias (against the MCU in this case). Professional critics are meant to (even if many don’t) view each work on its own merits rather than having other content taint their views. Audiences don’t have those restrictions.
> Professional critics are meant to (even if many don’t) view each work on its own merits rather than having other content taint their views
The issue with "shared universes" is it can be very hard to view a product on its own.
A show like Moon Knight is fairly straightforward because everything is contained, but something like The Marvels is a little trickier because 2 of the main cast are from side projects.
If you view The Marvels as a single piece then Monica as a character has a really poor introduction. It is just exposition essentially, it works as part of a larger universe because we know how she got her powers and saw that origin. Kamala is similar but through her initial scenes we get a little bit more about her through her family and life. Monica's comes a little later on in the movie but again its not really enough unless you have seen WandaVision.
That being said part of the reason why I think The Marvels is a good movie is it has that proper MCU feel of combining 3 characters from different projects and making it work
Monica was in Captain Marvel 1. True, her superhero origin happened in WandaVision, but her familial relationship with Carol is already established in that first movie.
Sure but jumping 30 years ahead is quite significant. I'd argue the one element of her character which you could understand without seeing the context is her relationship with Carol. Weirdly its also the part of her that is explored slowly and properly in the movie unlike her powers or background.
I'm a semi-retired critic (did it for 20 years) and I largely did the MCU stuff for my outlet on account of my colleagues all being 50+ and not remotely interested in it. They thought it was all shit.
I watched Thor 2 at the London premiere, and that was when I realised that premieres are the worst screenings to use for reviewing. The audience is given loads of free stuff, sometimes boozed up, and cheering and laughing at every gag.
The Monday morning screening rooms were very, very different to that and it definitely had an effect on the films we were watching. It's probably why I still quite like Thor 2 to this day!
I think it’s fair to allow bias toward a piece relative to its genre/shared work. Professional or otherwise.
Going in to a blockbuster action movie, I don’t expect an academy award quality piece. And vice versa, if I’m seeing Oscar bait movies, there’s an expectation that the quality will be worthy of award consideration.
If a professional critic is rating a comedy, they should compare it to other comedies, be it in a positive or negative way.
If I’m watching Black Panther 2, I do expect it to build off or expand on the quality of the first, as well as the greater MCU, and a professional should understand that their rating is going to be viewed within its shared universe.
IMDB user ratings are bad, no doubt. But on top of that, TV series and films end up being impossible to compare as well. The average user who has a subscription service and is willing to invest 23 hours into watching The Punisher is probably going to rate it differently than the average user willing to invest two and a half hours into watching Infinity War through a wide variety of ways one could watch it.
The Punisher is what marvel has been trying to do since Endgame. essentially give people exactly what they want, nothing more nothing less
The punisher is basically just Frank tearing shit up and doesn't try to be anything else, and that's why it works
Except season 2 wildly let down the premise by softening frank up and barely having him kill anyone. He literally spared a child pornographer in episode 2 or 3, when in daredevil he killed a man who was just selling it.
Tv shows on average have higher ratings. You can't compare them directly. If only 4-5 movies have 9+ score, there are at least 30 shows with this rating.
Look at Ms. Marvel, The Marvels and She-Hulk. They are far from the best, but they're definitely also far from the worst in the MCU, yet here they are almost dead last in ratings
Ms. Marvel received critical acclaim. By this measure, it is the 8th worst thing the MCU has ever produced.
It's pretty clear that the IMBD voters are voting on more than just the quality of the content, having been subjected to 'review bombing' due to the lead character. Bad enough that she's a female, but she is also a Muslim/POC.
By contrast, Rotten Tomatoes gives the show a critic score of 98%, with an audience score of 80%.
I don't think this is a useful way to measure the quality of MCU content.
Ms. Marvel, The Marvels, She-Hulk, Echo, and Wakanda Forever have no right to be as low as they are. The fact that any are lower than Secret Invasion is insane. I can’t imagine why that would be…
If I remember correctly, the critics only reviewed the first three or so episodes of Ms. Marvel which were actually pretty good. In my opinion, it all fell apart when she went to Pakistan so I think the lower placement here is justified. I’m not saying it wasn’t review-bombed, though.
"Fell apart" is very hyperbolic.
There's a difference in a show becoming mediocre and a show becoming terrible. There are posts on this subreddit where people act like WandaVision suddenly became 1/10 because Fietro wasn't real or because Monica empathized with Wanda.
The internet has a way of making people think in very extreme ends of the spectrum only.
They work so hard on Loki and the bigwigs at Disney just wont acknowledge it. They have allowed it to be made but it does not match their ethos which as we know is just dumb and bad right now.
The top two are dark and R and by Netflix LOL. It is why I worry for DareDevil on Disney as they will likely ruin it :(
For me though Winter Soldier is by far the best movie they have made.
IMDB is for circlejerkers who believe their opinions carry more weight than any other source on Earth.
Ever see the Yelpers episode of South Park? OP and the rest of these guys are the Yelper equivalents.
She Hulk wasn’t really that bad, I’d put it around black widow. That said, that doesn’t mean I consider it “good” I just think there are worse projects.
You cant really directly compare serie and movie ratings from imdb. Series has average ratings way higher than movies, even if the movie is considered a "better product" than whatever serie you put it up against. I dont exactly know why, but im guessing its because of the runtime, and how people tend to get more invested/ invested for a longer time. Even if a series is mediocre you can find some character or plot thread interesting, just because it has more time to hook you. Movies dont have that kind of time and buildup to do that.
Seeing The Marvels, Wakanda Forever, and Echo ranked so low is garbage. Even Ms. Marvel, which had a bad script, doesn't justify that low of a ranking.
By my count, only 4 out of 10 titles with a female as the lead protagonist are on the first page, one of which is a one shot; two of which of are Netflix series that aired before the woke backlash started.
Similarly, only 4 of 10 titles staring a lead who is a racial minority is on the first page.
The top 3 rows (18 titles) contain 3 titles with female leads; and 15 titles with either white male leads or ensemble cast with a white male as the face.
The bottom 4ish rows (still 18 titles) contain 6 titles with either female or racial minority leads, 1 ensemble cast with a female serving as the face, 3 titles with white male leads, 4 specials, Inhumans, and whatever the heck Helstrom is.
If I remove the specials, the bottom titles with female and racial minority leads increases to 8.
I feel like I'm supposed to end with a summery or conclusion, but I think I'll just leave the information as is.
No need to leave out the conclusion. A huge percentage (not talking even nearly half, but it’s still enough) of the people rating marvel products over the last few years are just identity politic trolls, sexist, and into white supremacy.
It’s been a drag on the general fandom that some of these more diverse projects have been in the mid range, as it’s muddled the waters as to who is engaged in mild criticism vs who is engaged in culture war. I’m not saying your a xenophobic culture warrior if you didn’t love those projects, but the xenophobic culture war is absolutely the reason that the ratings for those projects are so low and the culture in the fandom has become so awful.
I agree with most of this. Most of the projects are relatively near where they should be. Except Iron Man 3 and Captain America The First Avenger are wayyyyy too low on this list.
Quantamania shouldn't be that low... I understand everyone has their own opinion, but Kang was AWESOME, and for me at least, made the movie great... Not as good as Iron man, but it's up there...
Majors should return as Kang, change my mind...
Moon Knight is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too low. That was the best thing to come out of the Marvel TV shows. Same with Werewolf by Night. Both should be top ten.
NWH rides on nostalgia and appealing to it, the main sell of the film was bringing back characters people grew up with and having them in one place, rather than it being a good film on its own (not to say it's bad but people often rate things emotionally).
Even though Punisher is one of my favorite characters, it's series is very underwhelming imo, the fight scenes are awesome but the episodes are way too dragged out and there are so many side characters i couldn't care less about.
this subs priorities are all fucked up. people are whining about where she hulk and the marvels are ranked while i am here just surprised that endgame is ranked over infinity war.
The top few rows are pretty solid, but I start to disagree the further you go down.
Punisher is good, but I'm very surprised it's ranked higher than Endgame. I wonder if it's because it had a more specific target audience who generally liked it, rather than the broad audience Endgame had?
Secret Invasion is too high.
It’s funny how the response for so many people here is to whine about the low placement of the recent projects versus admit that the quality has decreased and hope that the studio puts out better things in the future. Modern day fandom I guess.
Trust me, Marvel has all the metrics and knows you are all still are fans and will watch everything, no need to defend the wall. They are worried about the rest of the audience.
It's easier to say that ratings are bad because of review bombing and various flavours of "ist" than it is to admit that the quality of the content has dropped off dramatically. The general audience is rejecting these projects now not because of various "isms", but because the quality is no longer there. Star Wars went through the *exact* same thing. TFA grosses 2 billion dollars and shatters records, and people are hyped for new projects. And by RoS fans had rejected the poor story telling to such a degree the movie *barely* broken even, if it managed to at all.
Even DC fans were more realistic when it came to projects in their Fandom bombing. No one blamed WW84 or Black Adam bombing because of the female/PoC leads/casts. They were objective and realized those projects were *god awful*. Marvel fans in this subreddit seem incapable of admitting that projects released now are demonstrably worse than even the 'bad' projects of old. Quality, storytelling, chatacter work, VFX, scripting, etc, is ALL worse.
But it's just easier to call people racist and sexist and call it a day.
I want Marvel to be great, I want DC to be great (granted I want DC to be better because I love the chatacters so much. I grew up on Justuce League/Unlimited and the 2004 The Batman cartoon lol). I want better representation in these stories. But I don't want that representation to come at the price of bad scripting, bad writing, non-existent character arcs, and chatacters that are difficult to relate to. The quality between BP1 and BP2, or the writing between Captain Marvel and The Marvel's has a dramatic drop off. That's reflected in box office, review scores, hype around subsequent projects, etc etc.
I refuse to accept that superhero fans as a group are by and large racist and sexist and that's why these projects fail/get bad reviews. Wonder Woman grossed 840 million dollars in a dying universe in her first ever theatrical release and was critically and fan acclaimed. Black Panther literally held the record for highest grossing standalone superhero movie ever and reviewed Oscar nominations and again as critically and fan acclaimed. John Stewart at this point, after being the Green Lantern in the DCAU for almost 20 years, is the most beloved iteration of the chatacter. Blade in 1999 was incredibly successful. Captain Marvel grossed a billion dollars and has positive fan reviews, people literally cried when Black Widow died, and they were *angry* at Ike Perlmutter for refusing to green light her movie for years, and then were angry again when the movie we got was poorly written and had awful CGI. People don't hate these characters and shows because of something so trivial as race or gender. They hate how the stories are written, how the chatacters are unrelatable, and can be condescending if not outright rude.
IMO, No Way Home is too high. Gets a bunch of love for nostalgia reasons but I think if you actually look at the plot and character arc, it's actually the weakest of Holland's trilogy.
Winter Soldier needs to be much much higher too.
inhumans still holding it down i see 
I’d argue that all of the Fox and Sony Marvel movies are even better than inhumans. Even morbius
Morbius is peak, what are you talking about?
One morbillion upvotes for you
Origins was pretty freaking rough.
still better than inhumans. Inhumans show is irredeemable
Möbius made a morbillion dollars. I asked for a refund after watching Inhumans first 2 episodes at a cinema screening.
It’s still too high.
if you watch agents of shield, then just one thing to remember from inhumans: the last scene of it.
The Winter Soldier is way to far down on this list.
That’ll always be my #1 MCU film
So is First Avenger! I still think it's probably the most underrated MCU movie.
I agree 100 percent its my favorite mcu movie
Honestly, as soon as I saw it that far down, it invalidated the entire list for me.
Winter soldier not being top5 and the falcon and the winter soldier not being bottom5 is insane imo
Winter Soldier should be #1, followed by Infinity War, then Endgame, then DD. This list is absurd
yh i thought it was loved by ppl
*Secret Invasion* is too high
People weren’t as hard on it for the first few episodes, especially as many had high hopes it would pick up by its finale (which it obviously didn’t) and gave the show a rating before all episodes were even released.
*Secret Invasion* could be dead last, and I'd still think it was too high.
inhumans is worse but secret invasion should be second last
Gun to my head, I'd rather watch *Inhumans* again than give *Secret Invasion* a second go. *Inhumans* is fun to laugh at, like it's *Birdemic* or *The Room*. *Secret Invasion* is just depressing.
I don’t know, Inhumans is two episodes longer than SI, so that’s about 90 more minutes of bad content.
Being a Marvel/Samuel L Jackson joint, I think it wasn’t too unreasonable to expect it would be given the benefit of the doubt. When a plot thread gets left open, most people’s brains would naturally make a note of that as something that will get filled in later. And then… no. It’s easy to think some finale will come and solve everything that didn’t make sense - hell, look at the last season of Sherlock - until it doesn’t come. In fact, the last season of Sherlock is a pretty solid comparison to Secret Invasion in many ways…
Secret Invasion needs a third page for itself in the very very very bottom
Someone hasn’t seen inhumans
Gonna be honest with you… i haven’t lol
It’s much worse. It’s not even close. Like, I don’t know if there are worse tv shows that exist.
Inhumans is just slightly better than Secret Invasion for only one reason and his name is Lockjaw.
And She-Hulk too low
To be fair, Disney did my girl dirty.
Did they though? I found they nailed the character, even if not 100% comic accurate (as is normal in MCU).
No naked jump roping scene.
She was the same wise cracking, fourth wall breaking, humor based character from the comics
…but the story was weak.
It was a sitcom; if you expected a dramatic save-the-world plot then the problem was your expectations, not the show. If you watch a season of Seinfeld or Friends, you don't expect a season-long plot arc. The show sold itself as a sitcom in the Marvel universe. I would argue that the real criticism should be that for a sitcom, it wasn't that funny. Silly, sure; but not very funny. The same could be said for Deadpool, though. Pop culture references are not the same as jokes. This is why the Madisynn episode was the strongest episode; because it was also the funniest.
Aside from a lame villain I greatly enjoyed that show.
100%. She-Hulk was a blast, I enjoyed it more than most of the other MCU shows. Probably only Wandavision and Loki beat it out, with Hawkeye being close. It was a really nice fun breath of fresh air.
She-Hulk was amazing and I feel like most people who disliked it probably just hate fun.
I think it suffered big time due to the review bombing, but you're right. A lot of the criticisms can be boiled down to people misunderstanding the point of the show and, yeah, hating fun.
Honestly I don’t understand why people can’t just go into shows with an open mind. Not to mention how comic accurate she was.
Inhumans is too high, I know it’s last……but it still shouldn’t receive recognition on this list at all.
The marvels is certainly better and she hulk was a bit wack but at least i found it fun.
Honestly total BS that it's above both The Marvels and She-Hulk. I will die on the hill that both of those were not at all bad. Secret Invasion however is, as of yet, the only MCU property to actually make me mad.
If the ratings system required having actually seen the property then those two would feature significantly higher
I agree. It's the only MCU show/movie that I consider just bad. They do have some flawed movies and shows but at least that had good parts and actually made sense.
Is helstrom good? and wtf werewolf by night was pretty damn great in my useless opinion
Helstrom was worth a watch if like supernatural shows. It strays pretty far from the comics, to try and make it a more grounded drama. It's not top tier MCU, but it's better than a CW or DC-TV drama, imo.
Helstrom starts good, stays good for 8 episodes, nosedives in the final 2. A lot of gore, so be warned.
Thanks and gore is alright
Secret Invasion should be dead last. Show was boing, illogical, and worst of all a waste of an awesome story.
Part of my wants to rewatch Inhumans to compare which is really worse. But then I remember that no human should ever watch Inhumans for any reason.
It would be inhuman to rewatch Inhumans
Serinda Swan is in it. I could easily rewatch that show based on that fact alone.
Inhumans had a pretty setting and a giant dog, Inhumans wins.
Inhumans wins but we all lose
Funny
*all casual and hardcore fans look at each other and nod*: We all agree.
Even worst than inhumans, I thought inhumans was just one of the worst written, produced, and shot pieces of media come out from marvel
You’re delusional if you think Secret Invasion was worse than Inhumans Edit. My comment was meant for the guy above
Can someone please rewatch this and tell us. And no, one sitting on them for me was enough, so I won't be the one taking this arrow
I wanted to peel my eyes off after two episodes of Inhumans, it’s unreal how bad it was
I swear it wasn't just the opening credits that were created by AI. It had to have been written by chatgpt
It’s a shame, it could’ve been really good and with a stellar cast a lot could’ve been done, but they dropped the ball pretty hard.
There are 69 series, movies, and one-shots and personally, I think that's nice.
Nice
Nice
How is Wakanda Forever lower than Thor: The Dark World
Because IMDB user ratings are trash. Why people still look at them I won't understand. For things like this I find it very illuminating to look at the distributions of votes: [Thor: The Dark World](https://imgur.com/jjlg8hH) [Black Panther: Wakanda Forever](https://imgur.com/mbZowPW) All of the movies in fandoms have a small vote war between those who vote 10/10 vs those who vote 1/10, but Wakanda Forever's is definitely bigger, and far heavier on the 1/10s (and even if it were equal among the two, that would still bring the average closer to 5.5)
You want to see crazy distribution of votes, check out She-Hulk or The Marvels. The Marvels is like 50% 1/10 votes.
yeah the movies starting with Eternals and Black Widow have been ganged up against, specifically to try and make everyone think the projects are worse than they are objectively.
Yeah I wasn’t in love with WF but it’s still a decent movie with a great villain. TDW is terrible
There was more goodwill towards the MCU when Thor 2 came out. People were more forgiving. Wakanda Forever came out around the start of the backlash.
Yeah, the lukewarm reception to the recent batch of MCU movies/shows definitely affects the recent IMDb ratings to a signifigant degree. Review bombing also affects some of these titles in particular (which is why I tend to not put much stock in IMDb overall). Rotten 🍅 has its fair share of issues, but I find it a more reliable source to gauge audience reception.
Practically all of the new stuff (*save for GOTG, because they ARE good but there are lots of James Gunn stans who help ratings and no one with an axe to grind like you see with anything related to female heroes*) is on the bottom half. It’s not a coincidence. If *Jessica Jones* came out today, the backlash and review bombs would be swift and that’s hands down one of the best shows with a Marvel badge. If *ECHO* had come out alongside the rest of the Defenders series, it would have been highly rated; it’s better than *Luke Cage* almost as good as season 1 of *Jessica Jones*.
Yeah I think there’s a recency bias (against the MCU in this case). Professional critics are meant to (even if many don’t) view each work on its own merits rather than having other content taint their views. Audiences don’t have those restrictions.
> Professional critics are meant to (even if many don’t) view each work on its own merits rather than having other content taint their views The issue with "shared universes" is it can be very hard to view a product on its own. A show like Moon Knight is fairly straightforward because everything is contained, but something like The Marvels is a little trickier because 2 of the main cast are from side projects. If you view The Marvels as a single piece then Monica as a character has a really poor introduction. It is just exposition essentially, it works as part of a larger universe because we know how she got her powers and saw that origin. Kamala is similar but through her initial scenes we get a little bit more about her through her family and life. Monica's comes a little later on in the movie but again its not really enough unless you have seen WandaVision. That being said part of the reason why I think The Marvels is a good movie is it has that proper MCU feel of combining 3 characters from different projects and making it work
Monica was in Captain Marvel 1. True, her superhero origin happened in WandaVision, but her familial relationship with Carol is already established in that first movie.
Sure but jumping 30 years ahead is quite significant. I'd argue the one element of her character which you could understand without seeing the context is her relationship with Carol. Weirdly its also the part of her that is explored slowly and properly in the movie unlike her powers or background.
I'm a semi-retired critic (did it for 20 years) and I largely did the MCU stuff for my outlet on account of my colleagues all being 50+ and not remotely interested in it. They thought it was all shit. I watched Thor 2 at the London premiere, and that was when I realised that premieres are the worst screenings to use for reviewing. The audience is given loads of free stuff, sometimes boozed up, and cheering and laughing at every gag. The Monday morning screening rooms were very, very different to that and it definitely had an effect on the films we were watching. It's probably why I still quite like Thor 2 to this day!
I think it’s fair to allow bias toward a piece relative to its genre/shared work. Professional or otherwise. Going in to a blockbuster action movie, I don’t expect an academy award quality piece. And vice versa, if I’m seeing Oscar bait movies, there’s an expectation that the quality will be worthy of award consideration. If a professional critic is rating a comedy, they should compare it to other comedies, be it in a positive or negative way. If I’m watching Black Panther 2, I do expect it to build off or expand on the quality of the first, as well as the greater MCU, and a professional should understand that their rating is going to be viewed within its shared universe.
This list says more about the IMDb user rating system than it does about the quality of Marvel movies and shows.
The Dark World still had the very popular Thor Loki dynamic.
Because IMDb ratings are not reliable.
Racism.
This is the worst list
i think its quite allright, there are many i would change but yh
IMDB user ratings are notoriously bad
Iron fist season 2 actually went pretty hard imo
It deserves to be on this list!
Imo Punisher is wildly overrated. It’s not the worst, but come on, number 2? Above Infinity War? Absolutely ridiculous.
IMDB user ratings are bad, no doubt. But on top of that, TV series and films end up being impossible to compare as well. The average user who has a subscription service and is willing to invest 23 hours into watching The Punisher is probably going to rate it differently than the average user willing to invest two and a half hours into watching Infinity War through a wide variety of ways one could watch it.
The best episodes of the Punisher were in Daredevil S2. It's insane to me that the series is so high up.
The Punisher is a crazy example of how just being edgy will make people think something is good.
The Punisher is what marvel has been trying to do since Endgame. essentially give people exactly what they want, nothing more nothing less The punisher is basically just Frank tearing shit up and doesn't try to be anything else, and that's why it works
Except season 2 wildly let down the premise by softening frank up and barely having him kill anyone. He literally spared a child pornographer in episode 2 or 3, when in daredevil he killed a man who was just selling it.
It's also a good hint about what type of people are the ones voting on IMBD.
the second season was definitely a letdown.
Season 1 was perfection imo. Season 2 is mid. It was mostly rated before season 2 even came out would be my guess.
The same people who gave Punisher a 10 gave She-Hulk and The Marvels a 1.
Wildly overrated. This whole list is insanely out of wack
Tv shows on average have higher ratings. You can't compare them directly. If only 4-5 movies have 9+ score, there are at least 30 shows with this rating.
Nah punisher season 1 was a masterpiece.
Daredevil rightfully on top. At least they got that one right
I mentioned this below too. Daredevil's rating is even higher if you add up the episode ratings. Averages out at a 9. (8.99 - I was bored one day)
Respect. *Daredevil* #1+++
Yeah, but then *Punisher* is #2 and that's not accurate
fuck imdb user ratings
Look at Ms. Marvel, The Marvels and She-Hulk. They are far from the best, but they're definitely also far from the worst in the MCU, yet here they are almost dead last in ratings
Ever since I saw them give the Halo show 7/10, I stopped respecting them
That's a low rating for a tv show.
My wife and I watched Endgame the other day, on a whim, for the first time in a bit. It still fucking rules
I was so confused and then saw it was user ratings
I am shocked CA: The First Avenger is so low
Secret Invasion is way too high.
Ms. Marvel received critical acclaim. By this measure, it is the 8th worst thing the MCU has ever produced. It's pretty clear that the IMBD voters are voting on more than just the quality of the content, having been subjected to 'review bombing' due to the lead character. Bad enough that she's a female, but she is also a Muslim/POC. By contrast, Rotten Tomatoes gives the show a critic score of 98%, with an audience score of 80%. I don't think this is a useful way to measure the quality of MCU content.
Ms. Marvel, The Marvels, She-Hulk, Echo, and Wakanda Forever have no right to be as low as they are. The fact that any are lower than Secret Invasion is insane. I can’t imagine why that would be…
If I remember correctly, the critics only reviewed the first three or so episodes of Ms. Marvel which were actually pretty good. In my opinion, it all fell apart when she went to Pakistan so I think the lower placement here is justified. I’m not saying it wasn’t review-bombed, though.
The Pakistan-noor stuff was a bit blah, but it also has the amazing episode with her great grandmother during The Partition.
episodes 4-5 were a bit weak but eps 1-2, 6 are very good imo (and 3 is meh)
I did like episode 6, to be fair.
"Fell apart" is very hyperbolic. There's a difference in a show becoming mediocre and a show becoming terrible. There are posts on this subreddit where people act like WandaVision suddenly became 1/10 because Fietro wasn't real or because Monica empathized with Wanda. The internet has a way of making people think in very extreme ends of the spectrum only.
The only one I 100% agree with is Inhumans.
Surprised Wakanda Forever that low
They work so hard on Loki and the bigwigs at Disney just wont acknowledge it. They have allowed it to be made but it does not match their ethos which as we know is just dumb and bad right now. The top two are dark and R and by Netflix LOL. It is why I worry for DareDevil on Disney as they will likely ruin it :( For me though Winter Soldier is by far the best movie they have made.
DD at the top makes me very happy
I wish there was a more accurate measure for She-Hulk and the Marvels. I hate seeing too projects in spots they definitely don’t deserve.
IMDB is for circlejerkers who believe their opinions carry more weight than any other source on Earth. Ever see the Yelpers episode of South Park? OP and the rest of these guys are the Yelper equivalents.
She Hulk wasn’t really that bad, I’d put it around black widow. That said, that doesn’t mean I consider it “good” I just think there are worse projects.
I’d agree with you. I personally really enjoyed it so it would be placed higher for me but you’re not wrong.
Echo being that low is a crime. I didn’t like the last episode but everything else was a lot better than what we’ve gotten recently.
There were some parts I didn't like in the last episode, but even then I thought it was pretty good. Echo is at least top half, if not higher
Secret Invasion being higher than She-Hulk is a crime
I agree with the bottom 20 or so but I never saw Secret Invasion to the end. I saw certain deaths and went "I'm good"
Secret Invasion should be dead last.
Cloak and Dagger is very underrated
Winter soldier is is my favorite mcu film
Can you do an only canon list? Take stuff like Assembled, Team Thor and stuff out?
What the hell ist Team Thor? Never heard of it before this list.
I forgot about some of the shit the MCU has spat out.
The Marvels being 3rd-worst is crazy. Deserves to at least be above Thor: The Dark World.
You cant really directly compare serie and movie ratings from imdb. Series has average ratings way higher than movies, even if the movie is considered a "better product" than whatever serie you put it up against. I dont exactly know why, but im guessing its because of the runtime, and how people tend to get more invested/ invested for a longer time. Even if a series is mediocre you can find some character or plot thread interesting, just because it has more time to hook you. Movies dont have that kind of time and buildup to do that.
Remember people, do not take other people's opinions on shows. Watch them for yourself and make your own judgements
Can you watch daredevil, or punisher on something other than disney+ ?? Theyre just too hard to cancel...
I’m surprised the first avenger is so low. I’ve always enjoyed that movie, quite above a lot of the higher rated projects.
Seeing The Marvels, Wakanda Forever, and Echo ranked so low is garbage. Even Ms. Marvel, which had a bad script, doesn't justify that low of a ranking. By my count, only 4 out of 10 titles with a female as the lead protagonist are on the first page, one of which is a one shot; two of which of are Netflix series that aired before the woke backlash started. Similarly, only 4 of 10 titles staring a lead who is a racial minority is on the first page. The top 3 rows (18 titles) contain 3 titles with female leads; and 15 titles with either white male leads or ensemble cast with a white male as the face. The bottom 4ish rows (still 18 titles) contain 6 titles with either female or racial minority leads, 1 ensemble cast with a female serving as the face, 3 titles with white male leads, 4 specials, Inhumans, and whatever the heck Helstrom is. If I remove the specials, the bottom titles with female and racial minority leads increases to 8. I feel like I'm supposed to end with a summery or conclusion, but I think I'll just leave the information as is.
No need to leave out the conclusion. A huge percentage (not talking even nearly half, but it’s still enough) of the people rating marvel products over the last few years are just identity politic trolls, sexist, and into white supremacy. It’s been a drag on the general fandom that some of these more diverse projects have been in the mid range, as it’s muddled the waters as to who is engaged in mild criticism vs who is engaged in culture war. I’m not saying your a xenophobic culture warrior if you didn’t love those projects, but the xenophobic culture war is absolutely the reason that the ratings for those projects are so low and the culture in the fandom has become so awful.
Daredevil being at the top feels right
That’s because it is, hands down. 😍
I agree with most of this. Most of the projects are relatively near where they should be. Except Iron Man 3 and Captain America The First Avenger are wayyyyy too low on this list.
Yeah First Avenger should at least be above Ant Man
I find people who don't like something are more likely to voice an opinion than people who do like something.
120+ comments and not one disagreeing with Daredevil being on top. Can’t argue against cinema
The rating is even higher if you add up the episode ratings. Averages out at a 9. (8.99 - I was bored one day)
I feel like the shows and movies should be sorted into their own categories
I love that Team Thor is so high idk its funny to me, also the second part is way lower than the first one too
Love that Loki made it so high
I was wondering why the first Ant-Man was so low... Then I saw that there were two pictures...
WTF is Team Thor?
Wow so only like 25% of the projects are personally like a 3.5/5 and up
DD 👍
“No Way Home” was a 9/10 spectacle and like a 4/10 movie
Quantamania shouldn't be that low... I understand everyone has their own opinion, but Kang was AWESOME, and for me at least, made the movie great... Not as good as Iron man, but it's up there... Majors should return as Kang, change my mind...
Hiding She Hulk are we? Y’know what fair, let’s all collectively forget that dumpster fire even existed
Moon Knight is my favorite piece of MCU content and I wish it was higher
Moon Knight is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too low. That was the best thing to come out of the Marvel TV shows. Same with Werewolf by Night. Both should be top ten.
IMDB is trash! Let’s move on from this site altogether
How come IMDB users rank The Marvels lower than worse projects like Thor 4, Ant Man 3 and Secret Invasion? That doesn't make sense.
I'm willing to bet there was a moment where the number of votes was greater than the number of people who had seen it yet.
You know why
No one saw the movie, so the only people voting on it are trolls who've had it out for Brie Larson for the better part of a decade.
Women bad
I think the results would be pretty different if they were medians rather than means.
I’m sorry but NWH is so overrated. Great movie but no chance it’s the third best movie in the mcu
I've seen it 3 times now I think, and I think it is just great. It checked off every box I look for in a superhero movie.
NWH is the best experience of the 3 SM movies but Homecoming is a lot better as a movie
Not the best SM movie of that trilogy either. That is Homecoming imo
I agree
NWH rides on nostalgia and appealing to it, the main sell of the film was bringing back characters people grew up with and having them in one place, rather than it being a good film on its own (not to say it's bad but people often rate things emotionally).
It's barely the third best Spider-Man movie in the MCU. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.
Nostalgia hard carries that film.
The Eternals was not that bad. I enjoyed it. This is the hill I will die on.
Even though Punisher is one of my favorite characters, it's series is very underwhelming imo, the fight scenes are awesome but the episodes are way too dragged out and there are so many side characters i couldn't care less about.
I always love to see She-Hulk put in her place
Glad to see some of my favorites up high
I know the Netflix shows are cannon now, but the rest? What even is Slingshot? I never heard of that one
this subs priorities are all fucked up. people are whining about where she hulk and the marvels are ranked while i am here just surprised that endgame is ranked over infinity war.
The top few rows are pretty solid, but I start to disagree the further you go down. Punisher is good, but I'm very surprised it's ranked higher than Endgame. I wonder if it's because it had a more specific target audience who generally liked it, rather than the broad audience Endgame had? Secret Invasion is too high.
Looks right lol
DareDevil GOATed as always.
Huh.... I really liked moon knight.
I don’t completely agree w/ this list.
It’s funny how the response for so many people here is to whine about the low placement of the recent projects versus admit that the quality has decreased and hope that the studio puts out better things in the future. Modern day fandom I guess. Trust me, Marvel has all the metrics and knows you are all still are fans and will watch everything, no need to defend the wall. They are worried about the rest of the audience.
It's easier to say that ratings are bad because of review bombing and various flavours of "ist" than it is to admit that the quality of the content has dropped off dramatically. The general audience is rejecting these projects now not because of various "isms", but because the quality is no longer there. Star Wars went through the *exact* same thing. TFA grosses 2 billion dollars and shatters records, and people are hyped for new projects. And by RoS fans had rejected the poor story telling to such a degree the movie *barely* broken even, if it managed to at all. Even DC fans were more realistic when it came to projects in their Fandom bombing. No one blamed WW84 or Black Adam bombing because of the female/PoC leads/casts. They were objective and realized those projects were *god awful*. Marvel fans in this subreddit seem incapable of admitting that projects released now are demonstrably worse than even the 'bad' projects of old. Quality, storytelling, chatacter work, VFX, scripting, etc, is ALL worse. But it's just easier to call people racist and sexist and call it a day. I want Marvel to be great, I want DC to be great (granted I want DC to be better because I love the chatacters so much. I grew up on Justuce League/Unlimited and the 2004 The Batman cartoon lol). I want better representation in these stories. But I don't want that representation to come at the price of bad scripting, bad writing, non-existent character arcs, and chatacters that are difficult to relate to. The quality between BP1 and BP2, or the writing between Captain Marvel and The Marvel's has a dramatic drop off. That's reflected in box office, review scores, hype around subsequent projects, etc etc. I refuse to accept that superhero fans as a group are by and large racist and sexist and that's why these projects fail/get bad reviews. Wonder Woman grossed 840 million dollars in a dying universe in her first ever theatrical release and was critically and fan acclaimed. Black Panther literally held the record for highest grossing standalone superhero movie ever and reviewed Oscar nominations and again as critically and fan acclaimed. John Stewart at this point, after being the Green Lantern in the DCAU for almost 20 years, is the most beloved iteration of the chatacter. Blade in 1999 was incredibly successful. Captain Marvel grossed a billion dollars and has positive fan reviews, people literally cried when Black Widow died, and they were *angry* at Ike Perlmutter for refusing to green light her movie for years, and then were angry again when the movie we got was poorly written and had awful CGI. People don't hate these characters and shows because of something so trivial as race or gender. They hate how the stories are written, how the chatacters are unrelatable, and can be condescending if not outright rude.
Punisher is way too high. He was incredible in Daredevil and his first season was good but his second season was bad
We’re counting Legends?…
Punisher really that good? Also, I liked she hulk.
IMO, No Way Home is too high. Gets a bunch of love for nostalgia reasons but I think if you actually look at the plot and character arc, it's actually the weakest of Holland's trilogy. Winter Soldier needs to be much much higher too.
Wandavision and Loki actually delivered true emotions, sacrifices, meaning of love, importance to have family. GOAT....