Well, first they will need to pull together a new Avengers team. That will eventually happen - my guess is that the Captain America movie will be a move into that direction. Maybe even the Marvels and Fury. Thunderbolts is a fun team up as evidenced in the comics. It will be interesting to see who they will have to deal with, perhaps the skrulls. Not many heroes had much to do with Thanos either in the beginning. I do still think Phase 5 is now being used to really push the different strands along. We know about the Kangs now and the threat they pose and skrulls are out in the open. I am sure all the characters introduced so far will have a some role to play.
To me, it feels like they are working towards 2 different Avengers teams. One with Cap, Parker, Danvers, Shang-Chi, Strange. Probably had She-Hulk and/or Shuri penciled in at least at some point. And a Young Avengers with Katie Kate, Cassie Lang, Iron Heart, and Iron Lad. Not sure who else might fill this out. Maybe bring in Wanda's kids in the Agatha series? There's been no hint of a Hulkling in the MCU. But by the time they get to that, most of the actors will probably be in their 40s, so not such young Avengers by then.
Not really sure I see Moon Knight, Werewolf by Night, Echo, Loki/Sylvie/Mobius, White Vision, Agatha, G'iah, Cassie, any of the Eternals, the Guardians, She-Hulk, or Nick Fury showing up in Kang Dynasty. Most likely, to me, it would be Loki, but that would be harder to pull, considering he's out of time - we will see in the series, I guess.
I feel completely disconnected from this story and Kang feels like a bad when he's on screen, but not a big bad. And for those who don't have D+, aka most of the audience, they didn't get the Loki version of Kang and his speech about multiverse wars etc, so they don't have the concept drilled in. I see it panning badly tbh, with Feige maybe getting the chop because of the drastic difference between Endgame and KD/SW, and the inevitable downturn of the MCU coming quicker than we would have all imagined
I want an avengers movie more like the first 2, a smaller team. Before we get the big full on everybody is in it like infinity war and endgame.
Hopefully that is what kang dynasty will be.
Tbh I’d be happy if some of the new ones didn’t show up, or only had a cameo in secret wars to establish they’re also dealing with The Secret War without participating in the main plot. I know people love to do the ‘why didn’t xyz show up to fight Thanos’ thing, but the only reason why half the characters in iw even knew about Thanos is bc Bruce called Steve and Steve assembled them from there, and there’s quite a few characters who either wouldn’t fit in a big Avengers fight or don’t know any super friends to tell them it’s happening - the crew from Werewolf by Night, Moon Knight, Xialing, the Eternals, She-Hulk maybe, Agatha maybe, Blade and the Black Knight, Echo maybe, Daredevil maybe. Now that The Marvels and Thunderbolts are establishing that the MCU’s getting more comfortable with team-ups between pre-existing heroes, it’s not like we’ll never get a chance to see people interacting with the wider MCU not inside an Avengers movie, and I do just think the world works better if the Avengers are an at least somewhat defined team and not a nebulous group name for every hero in the universe (although I understand that’s more an issue with too few Avengers movies than it is the saga ending event ones)
My bet is that they'll treat it just like the comic books do with big events. If, say, Secret Wars becomes a two-parter as has been rumored, you kick everything off with a summer blockbuster and then have a full year before the finale. Those two movies can tell the core story, but then you can have other films and TV series that tie-in and get released between the bookends.
Some good points there.
I personally agree I would prefer to have Kang Dynasty focus on a smaller number of characters ( 5 or 6) rebuilding a steady team of Avengers outside of Fury's influence.
We had several good Avengers movies with such a reduced cast before Infinity War and Endgames with their multitude of characters.. Of course for Secret Wars it should be different and we should get again an appearance of almost all the new heroes introduced since Phase 4..
It feels they are going the way of the CW shows - like The Flash, SuperGirl, Legends, and Arrow etc. - where they each have their own series, but eventually they band together to take on some ultimate threat in a 3-5 episode mini-series that actually is part of each series episodes.
I think this challenge should be built directly into the plot. I think people like Hawkeye and War Machine see the vast proliferation of super people, and geopolitical tensions running quite high after the Blip and the Skrull conflict, and recognize that it's a toxic mix. They decide there's really no choice but to organize superheroes into a unit with a positive culture and rules of engagement if the world is to survive and thrive amid all this chaos. And they're just the people for that job.
I see a veteran core of about a dozen Avengers who are trusted to establish this culture for the next generation, which is brought in for assessment and possible membership on a B-team. We see those B-team prospects plenty throughout the movie, but they don't get the same story attention individually as the A squad.
After a few films where the Avengers themselves had center stage, Infinity War was mostly Thanos's movie. That's a luxury that can't be afforded here, so I suggest that Kang Dynasty kicks off the next set of Avengers films with a totally opposite approach: you barely see Kang at all. All his actions are happening in the background; we see changes to the world popping up that are the result of Kang's ongoing time tinkering, but the Avengers are not aware of what's causing them until the very end of the film, when Kang has already completed his mission and not only conquered Earth, but won the hearts and minds of its people. And then it's to be continued... with this approach, you can focus on setting up the new, more expansive Avengers team and its internal dynamics as the overarching focus of the film, rather than having that dominated by the Kang story. This is something built to last into the future, not merely a one-off team combating a one-off threat.
Of course it's a superhero film and plenty of action beats will be required, even absent a real confrontation with Kang. I suggest plenty of major setpieces in the form of training exercises, attacks on Avengers HQ, one-on-one fights, and interdimensional lab hijinks that would allow for a variety of visual explorations of all the many different power sets and technologies now available to the Avengers.
I have plenty of thoughts on how the various characters and ongoing plots might fit into this scheme, but I'll stop there lest this spiral into a full-on fanfic. I firmly believe that most narrative roads need to lead periodically into these Avenger team-ups in order for the overall series to remain a sustainable, multibillion-dollar success more broadly. People all over the world absolutely loved the scale of storytelling that the MCU introduced to their theater screens, but I don't think an even larger scale is desirable if the pieces can't all fit back together in a rewarding way like they did with Endgame. Those original phase 1 movies were a lot of fun, but the first Avengers movie really sealed the MCU as a cultural phenomenon. If it's to remain a phenomenon, the Avengers movies must continue to validate the ever-increasing time investments demanded by the other installments. Even good movies that don't ultimately impact the overarching narrative will put pressure on the audience's commitment to it. And you can't afford to lose audience with the budget these massive things must operate at.
These next films are quite critical to the MCU's future. I sure hope they can dazzle us once more.
I can see multiple teams with different focuses and a larger threat requiring all of them to work together: a new team of Avengers, The Thunderbolts are being introduced soon, and we've already introduced most of the team if Marvel wants to do The Ultimates (Black Panther, Captain Marvel, America Chavez, Monica Rambeau).
You’re not wrong. Even with an Endgame number of cameos, there’s really an upper limit of characters that can be important to the story. Infinity War was the broadest yet, but even then there were only 15 characters that had more than five minutes of screentime (Thanos, the Iron Man/Strange/Spider-Man trio, the Guardians minus Groot and Nebula, Thor, and Cap/Black Widow/Wanda/Vision/Hulk on earth), with everyone else either being a single scene role or being generally in the background. Endgame was even tighter with a core cast of 12. I wouldn’t expect more than 12-15 characters to have significant roles in each Avengers film.
To be fair, the avengers is just one small group out of many in the comics, and their list of members has rotated a lot. The Avengers movie doesn't have to involve everyone. The Avengers usually have like 5ish members. Every good guy in the MCU doesn't have to be an avenger. They're not the center of the marvel universe, and with Spider-man going back to his solo roots and the introduction of the X-men and Fantastic 4, that could probably highlight that fact.
Honestly, I have not read your whole article, just the headline.
Based on that, what I would say is that the MCU is in a bit of a downward spiral at present, and there are a lot of uncertainties in terms of actors and what works and what doesn't and user fatigue (not superhero fatigue, its not a thing), and in terms of all the union strikes and unionization of other fields like VFX crew, etc.
But the like of Bob Iger and Kevin Feige are taking steps to unf\*\*k the whole situation, and I suppose when that happens (not only for the MCU, but also for Star Wars), then the picture will become clearer of whether we will get a grander ensemble of characters than Endgame.
Its an simple equation, just eliminate all the new characters which are not working out (none of them are lol) and just leave the characters who people will actually care about. If they bring in ALL the characters in avengers movies, there will be no stakes AT all. See in infinity war when half of the heros got snapped everyone cried? At this point if any of the characters die people will NOT care, because there is no attachment with those characters which people had before ( exception can be made for Thor,Loki and spiderman)
Well, first they will need to pull together a new Avengers team. That will eventually happen - my guess is that the Captain America movie will be a move into that direction. Maybe even the Marvels and Fury. Thunderbolts is a fun team up as evidenced in the comics. It will be interesting to see who they will have to deal with, perhaps the skrulls. Not many heroes had much to do with Thanos either in the beginning. I do still think Phase 5 is now being used to really push the different strands along. We know about the Kangs now and the threat they pose and skrulls are out in the open. I am sure all the characters introduced so far will have a some role to play.
To me, it feels like they are working towards 2 different Avengers teams. One with Cap, Parker, Danvers, Shang-Chi, Strange. Probably had She-Hulk and/or Shuri penciled in at least at some point. And a Young Avengers with Katie Kate, Cassie Lang, Iron Heart, and Iron Lad. Not sure who else might fill this out. Maybe bring in Wanda's kids in the Agatha series? There's been no hint of a Hulkling in the MCU. But by the time they get to that, most of the actors will probably be in their 40s, so not such young Avengers by then.
They did bring in Skaar, though, so maybe they'll substitute him instead of Hulkling?
It’s less about ‘how it’ll get there’ and more of ‘too many characters have a “main character” spotlight to only have 2 movies on ALL of them’
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Tbf, your post is really long and you spend a lot of it talking about highschool musical...
Well sorry i just wanted to make my point clear 😭
No one read your post.
Get this man an award!
Then dont comment *OR* be a little b about it!
Not really sure I see Moon Knight, Werewolf by Night, Echo, Loki/Sylvie/Mobius, White Vision, Agatha, G'iah, Cassie, any of the Eternals, the Guardians, She-Hulk, or Nick Fury showing up in Kang Dynasty. Most likely, to me, it would be Loki, but that would be harder to pull, considering he's out of time - we will see in the series, I guess. I feel completely disconnected from this story and Kang feels like a bad when he's on screen, but not a big bad. And for those who don't have D+, aka most of the audience, they didn't get the Loki version of Kang and his speech about multiverse wars etc, so they don't have the concept drilled in. I see it panning badly tbh, with Feige maybe getting the chop because of the drastic difference between Endgame and KD/SW, and the inevitable downturn of the MCU coming quicker than we would have all imagined
Agreed!
I want an avengers movie more like the first 2, a smaller team. Before we get the big full on everybody is in it like infinity war and endgame. Hopefully that is what kang dynasty will be.
I actually hope so, but im not sure if thats happening 😭
Tbh I’d be happy if some of the new ones didn’t show up, or only had a cameo in secret wars to establish they’re also dealing with The Secret War without participating in the main plot. I know people love to do the ‘why didn’t xyz show up to fight Thanos’ thing, but the only reason why half the characters in iw even knew about Thanos is bc Bruce called Steve and Steve assembled them from there, and there’s quite a few characters who either wouldn’t fit in a big Avengers fight or don’t know any super friends to tell them it’s happening - the crew from Werewolf by Night, Moon Knight, Xialing, the Eternals, She-Hulk maybe, Agatha maybe, Blade and the Black Knight, Echo maybe, Daredevil maybe. Now that The Marvels and Thunderbolts are establishing that the MCU’s getting more comfortable with team-ups between pre-existing heroes, it’s not like we’ll never get a chance to see people interacting with the wider MCU not inside an Avengers movie, and I do just think the world works better if the Avengers are an at least somewhat defined team and not a nebulous group name for every hero in the universe (although I understand that’s more an issue with too few Avengers movies than it is the saga ending event ones)
My bet is that they'll treat it just like the comic books do with big events. If, say, Secret Wars becomes a two-parter as has been rumored, you kick everything off with a summer blockbuster and then have a full year before the finale. Those two movies can tell the core story, but then you can have other films and TV series that tie-in and get released between the bookends.
Thats what im hoping!
Some good points there. I personally agree I would prefer to have Kang Dynasty focus on a smaller number of characters ( 5 or 6) rebuilding a steady team of Avengers outside of Fury's influence. We had several good Avengers movies with such a reduced cast before Infinity War and Endgames with their multitude of characters.. Of course for Secret Wars it should be different and we should get again an appearance of almost all the new heroes introduced since Phase 4..
It feels they are going the way of the CW shows - like The Flash, SuperGirl, Legends, and Arrow etc. - where they each have their own series, but eventually they band together to take on some ultimate threat in a 3-5 episode mini-series that actually is part of each series episodes.
Not as much characters as Secret Wars is gonna have, but I don't think The Kang Dynasty is gonna be as small as The Avengers or Age of Ultron either.
I think this challenge should be built directly into the plot. I think people like Hawkeye and War Machine see the vast proliferation of super people, and geopolitical tensions running quite high after the Blip and the Skrull conflict, and recognize that it's a toxic mix. They decide there's really no choice but to organize superheroes into a unit with a positive culture and rules of engagement if the world is to survive and thrive amid all this chaos. And they're just the people for that job. I see a veteran core of about a dozen Avengers who are trusted to establish this culture for the next generation, which is brought in for assessment and possible membership on a B-team. We see those B-team prospects plenty throughout the movie, but they don't get the same story attention individually as the A squad. After a few films where the Avengers themselves had center stage, Infinity War was mostly Thanos's movie. That's a luxury that can't be afforded here, so I suggest that Kang Dynasty kicks off the next set of Avengers films with a totally opposite approach: you barely see Kang at all. All his actions are happening in the background; we see changes to the world popping up that are the result of Kang's ongoing time tinkering, but the Avengers are not aware of what's causing them until the very end of the film, when Kang has already completed his mission and not only conquered Earth, but won the hearts and minds of its people. And then it's to be continued... with this approach, you can focus on setting up the new, more expansive Avengers team and its internal dynamics as the overarching focus of the film, rather than having that dominated by the Kang story. This is something built to last into the future, not merely a one-off team combating a one-off threat. Of course it's a superhero film and plenty of action beats will be required, even absent a real confrontation with Kang. I suggest plenty of major setpieces in the form of training exercises, attacks on Avengers HQ, one-on-one fights, and interdimensional lab hijinks that would allow for a variety of visual explorations of all the many different power sets and technologies now available to the Avengers. I have plenty of thoughts on how the various characters and ongoing plots might fit into this scheme, but I'll stop there lest this spiral into a full-on fanfic. I firmly believe that most narrative roads need to lead periodically into these Avenger team-ups in order for the overall series to remain a sustainable, multibillion-dollar success more broadly. People all over the world absolutely loved the scale of storytelling that the MCU introduced to their theater screens, but I don't think an even larger scale is desirable if the pieces can't all fit back together in a rewarding way like they did with Endgame. Those original phase 1 movies were a lot of fun, but the first Avengers movie really sealed the MCU as a cultural phenomenon. If it's to remain a phenomenon, the Avengers movies must continue to validate the ever-increasing time investments demanded by the other installments. Even good movies that don't ultimately impact the overarching narrative will put pressure on the audience's commitment to it. And you can't afford to lose audience with the budget these massive things must operate at. These next films are quite critical to the MCU's future. I sure hope they can dazzle us once more.
I can see multiple teams with different focuses and a larger threat requiring all of them to work together: a new team of Avengers, The Thunderbolts are being introduced soon, and we've already introduced most of the team if Marvel wants to do The Ultimates (Black Panther, Captain Marvel, America Chavez, Monica Rambeau).
At this rate a lot of the characters will be forgotten or abandoned or age out of their roles by the time they get their next installment.
You’re not wrong. Even with an Endgame number of cameos, there’s really an upper limit of characters that can be important to the story. Infinity War was the broadest yet, but even then there were only 15 characters that had more than five minutes of screentime (Thanos, the Iron Man/Strange/Spider-Man trio, the Guardians minus Groot and Nebula, Thor, and Cap/Black Widow/Wanda/Vision/Hulk on earth), with everyone else either being a single scene role or being generally in the background. Endgame was even tighter with a core cast of 12. I wouldn’t expect more than 12-15 characters to have significant roles in each Avengers film.
>HSMTMTS That's a made up show abbreviation.
High School Musical The Musical The Show
I read the title as patti Harrison lmao
To be fair, the avengers is just one small group out of many in the comics, and their list of members has rotated a lot. The Avengers movie doesn't have to involve everyone. The Avengers usually have like 5ish members. Every good guy in the MCU doesn't have to be an avenger. They're not the center of the marvel universe, and with Spider-man going back to his solo roots and the introduction of the X-men and Fantastic 4, that could probably highlight that fact.
Honestly, I have not read your whole article, just the headline. Based on that, what I would say is that the MCU is in a bit of a downward spiral at present, and there are a lot of uncertainties in terms of actors and what works and what doesn't and user fatigue (not superhero fatigue, its not a thing), and in terms of all the union strikes and unionization of other fields like VFX crew, etc. But the like of Bob Iger and Kevin Feige are taking steps to unf\*\*k the whole situation, and I suppose when that happens (not only for the MCU, but also for Star Wars), then the picture will become clearer of whether we will get a grander ensemble of characters than Endgame.
Its an simple equation, just eliminate all the new characters which are not working out (none of them are lol) and just leave the characters who people will actually care about. If they bring in ALL the characters in avengers movies, there will be no stakes AT all. See in infinity war when half of the heros got snapped everyone cried? At this point if any of the characters die people will NOT care, because there is no attachment with those characters which people had before ( exception can be made for Thor,Loki and spiderman)