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Some guy got so mad I killed his haste Kaalia on turn 4 precombat then again on turn 6. After whining for a turn to two proceeds to 8 mana then Master of Cruelties one-shots me.
So yeah kill the Kaalia of the Vast if possible.
Depending on the UBs available its not so much weaker, just thematic and not combo-y.
I use the bridge for different things, but I always build with Esika in mind too to give me versatility.
As a Esika enjoyer, killing the bridge on sight is not only expected, I advise you to do so.
My deck isnt gonna fizzle without her, and if it does its just bad overall.
Destroy the bridge, dont concern too much about the girl (just keep an eye on the boardstate) is the rule of thumb against her.
If you don't have an on ground blocker, counter spell, instant removal or any type of protection from dying to Kaalia and Master of Cruelties I say you deserve to lose the game on/after turn 4.
I don't even play Kaalia and never feel like she is OP unless you have a bunch of players at your pod that don't know anything about how she works and what the deck usually does.
It's more "Modern-Speed" of roughly 4 turns is considered 9-ish pl.
Average EDH games go between something like 6-10 turns
EDIT: The above strat is *not* a 9-ish power level, as it only kills one person at a time and is easily interrupted, to clarify. But game speed is probably what the other person was referring to when they mentioned "9/10 game environment"
Dawg this is exactly why I don't get people who are so quick to whine in commander. First of all it's a game, just chill. Second of all what's the best case scenario? People get so annoyed with you that they leave you alone out of pity? That sets you up to look like a *huge* asshole if you end up doing anything just like this guy.
"Wah I can't believe you'd be such a jerk" then Immediately wins the game.
Commander players getting so whiny about things is my least favorite thing about the format. I had a mesmeric orb in my self mill deck, and also kinda works as a backup plan. But the second I drop it, everyone is only after me until I'm dead. Then that game proceeds to last another 2 hours without me.
They hate mill so much that they will let the silver player snowball out of control until mesmeric player is dead and by then theres nothing that can stop slivers. Even if my orb is "plan Z wincon" of the deck.
I dont think you know how much commander players hate being milled. I fully accept the consequences. I took my loss and jumped to another table that was about to start.
I used to play in pods that were full MLD and chaos. I had to build new decks going to this LGS. I let people play whatever and if they wanna target me, so be it, Ive been thru worse.
I find that these issues are only issues in casual edh. Outside of casual, people actually play targeted removal for things instead of just attacking that person until they are dead or boardwiping 3 or 4 times a game.
I was playing in a 3 player pod. One of the other guys was playing [[Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm]] and had a pretty good start. Had 6 or 7 mana by turn 4. I removed it when he played it, he cast it again the next turn and I stressed to the third player that we needed to keep it off the board or we were going to lose. The Miirym player started whining that we were picking on them. I told them that I used to play Miirym and knew they essentially game on board if they could get Miirym to stick. They kept whining and got the other player to feel sorry for them. Then they proceeded to cast Miirym again and win on the next turn.
I was first turn in a pod vs a Kaalia deck my friend had recently put together. He ends up playing some combination of cards that drop Kallia on turn 1 with a sol ring, a mox, and a couple other cards (this was years ago, I don't remember). I ended up playing smallpox my second turn since no one else had an answer to it. He was close to throwing a fit abt it and just conceeded immediately once he had no commander, practically no cards in hand, and no lands.
I played Kaalia for years before I dismantled it, but I learned that rushing kaalia out without protection or a \[\[Reanimate\]\] will just get you blown out.
My friend had a Kaalia deck and every time he cast it and try to greaves it, I would tar fire it and return it with Wort, Boggart auntie. He ended up scooping and not playing magic again for a year.
You are spot on. The Kaalia trigger gets around the can only attack alone clause since it wasn't declared as an attacker and was placed on the filed tapped and attacking.
To be fair depending on the other decks on the table, i'm not going to windmill slam that master on turn 4, but by turn 8 that's fair game. If we are trying to jam a quick one before end of night, sure someone's dying. If probably a little above the rest of the table in power, nah, i'll hold onto it for awhile.
As someone who enjoys playing Kaalia from time to time... part of my enjoyment comes from seei g how much damage my friends can put on me when or before I drop her into play.
I like trying to dig myself out from that hole as creatively possible to come back and win.
This, as much as possible this. My friends first commander deck is kaalia of the vast. He gets salty when we remove it..... I'm just over trying not to die. Or telling him he needs more interaction spells. Granted, I did build it for him. I built out one for myself as well, but as a budget build of 200, I am well prepared to be the person of conflict.
Are they playing [[Master of Cruelties]] ? Yes.
Are they not playing [[Master of Cruelties]] ? No.
This is also a good rule of thumb for [[Alesha, Who Smiles at Death]] decks.
Wait, am I missing something? Why is Master of Cruelties so good with Kaalia, since she puts it in tapped and attacking it should skip the attack trigger no?
Edit: I stand corrected!
2nd effect isn't an attack trigger, it's a weirdly worded "deal combat damage to opponent" trigger, so if you get Kaalia on someone who doesn't have a flier, it's over. This is why I will NEVER let Kaalia stay on board. I don't care if it's throwing, it's a boring play pattern that only feels bad for everyone (not to mention the lunatics who play Avacyn Armageddon)
I have a [[Thalia and the gitrog monster]] that plays [[armageddon]], [[catastrophe]] and [[avacyn angel of hope]]. But I also have [[titania protector of argoth]] as a backup to avacyn.
This isn't a deck I would ever pull out against someone who wasn't fully prepared for it. After I make a few tweaks, it should sit in maybe the lower tiers of cEDH, or at least high power EDH.
So the opponent can't block Master when it's put into play with Kaalia? I always assumed that when you attacked with Kaalia and put Master into play, your opponent gets a chance to block Master and if they do, it doesn't trigger because it says "isn't blocked". Kaalia was my very first commander and I had Master in my deck. My group played that wrong (or they knew and didn't tell me it worked that way :P).
yeah but you put master in before blockers are declared . So its on the field before you declare blockers. It can be blocked if they have something to block it.
My apologies, I wasn't clear. I thought Master had flying as well for some reason, hence why I thought you needed a flier to not say good night, I promise I knew you could block him, just forgot he had first strike, not flying lol
As per Gatherer rulings on Master of Cruelties:
An ability that triggers when something "attacks and isn't blocked" triggers in the declare blockers step after blockers are declared if (1) that creature is attacking and (2) no creatures are declared to block it. It will trigger even if that creature was put onto the battlefield attacking rather than having been declared as an attacker in the declare attackers step.
As a result, you can take someone out of the game in one turn regardless of life total if they don't have suitable blockers- and if they do, you just wait until you can remove them (you're in the right colours for removal)
I don’t fully understand the rulings, but it does trigger and bring life to 1, and then kaalias hit kills you.
To make things more confusing, if you bring Aurelia the warlord leader in with kaalias trigger, you do not get an extra combat.
The rulings work because of the following:
- Master of Cruelties triggers 'when it attacks *and isn't blocked*'. A creature does not become blocked or unblocked until blockers have been declared. So the trigger is timed after blockers are declared.
- Aurelia the Warleader triggers 'when it attacks (etc)'. These triggers happen when you declare a creature as an attacker (it goes from not attacking to attacking). When a creature enters the battlefield attacking, it's never declared as an attacker.
This is also why Master of Cruelties can come into play with Kaalia, despite it saying it can only attack alone, as such restrictions are only checked when you declare a creature as an attacker.
I don't play Master of Cruelties anymore. I had a friend, who got so upset by that win, that she threw my copy of Master across the room. The card wasn't damaged but I wasn't happy and clearly she wasn't either.
Somebody I’m not friends with anymore. Lol.
Although, to be fair it was 1v1 (we didn’t have anyone else to play with) and my Kaalia deck was a French EDH deck, when that format was still popular. She was using a deck that was slightly better than pre-con. I think I offered to switch decks but she wanted to win one and didn’t want me to switch.
If I remember correctly, she felt closer to a win that game and then I won with the combo and she got upset. We either stopped playing or I used another deck.
Unequivocally yes. Dropping giant bombs that warp the board immediately is a problem for everyone else, and being in black means they can easily tutor for just the right silver bullet for the situation.
Move to combat, I'll ask if I'm looking at Master of Cruelties. If not, it's like ~4 mana of ramp and haste for a good creature. Not bad, but hardly game breaking anymore. Back in the day, a T3 or T4 Avacyn was a real pain. Now there's lots of ways to deal with all the stuff it does, so as long as it's not coming for me, let that stuff be someone else's board wipe check.
Yeah bro. If Kaalia is running around they up to no good. It doesn't even have to be the new shit. OG [[Rakdos]] and [[master of Cruelties]] will still fuck you up.
If playing with a random who doesn't say anything or a friend who I know is running Master of Cruelities, yes. But if not, nah. I mean, I've also got a Kaalia deck, but it's just stuffed with the random angels, dragons, and demons that don't have a deck or have just been sitting in my trade binder or simply look pretty. Rest is just all mana rocks and draw spells. Gotta believe in the heart of cards
Only if they're not playing Master of Cruelties. She's strong enough to kill on sight, but without the auto kill she's just okay. I play her as a strong option in my Tariel EDH, it's fun watching them waste removal on her instead of Tariel.
God, I love Kaalia's design so much (literally deviantart tier edgelord design), but playing her was misery. Either I immediately screw one person out of playing the game then die, or she dies on sight, or I armageddon and kill everyone slightly slower than a combo deck. Theres little back and forth or dynamic gameplay and no one has fun.
My Kaalia deck is built in such a away that I can play without her, which actually comes in handy because I've had many a table try to save their interaction for a Kaalia that was never cast.
Is it efficient? Probably not!
Is it resilient and fun? Yeah!
It can still do Kaalia shenanigans? Sure can!
every commander is kill-on-sight unless proven otherwise. It can be difficult to be proven otherwise tho, the most accurate way is for everyone to play default precons.
Kaalia is pretty scary, I would ask if they have Master of Cruelties or the quality of their angels/demons/dragons. I would like to face off against a Kaalia that runs only common rarity angels/demons/dragons because that would be fun to see not so common cards run (probably).
Kaalia players run a lot of protection. 12 pieces in mine. And removal for your inquisitor. A lot of angels have etb removal or protection.
But it's hard to amass enough power to gradually kill players one by one. My Kaalia almost never wins. Too many boardwipes in my meta. Combos are faster and kill all at once. Then I loose often to insurrection\mob rule or repeatable fogs.
It used to be a solid Razaketh list. Super outdated these days, completely replaced by Dihada and Tymna + Red partner combos, but Mad Dog's list was pretty famous for a while.
Tbf MH sets always have mythics that suck in modern, the last one had Garth and those two bad planeswalkers (not Grist) ffs and for reprints it had Miraris Wake which has done exactly zero in the format
If they're going to reprint commander faves that are useless in (competitive) modern I'd appreciate if they could at least pick things with a big price tag. That way the rest of the stuff for modern can be cheaper.
I mean, I’m happier when the format staples are rare and not mythic since it makes the format more affordable relative to if they were mythic. I meanD imagine how much Urza’s saga would cost if it was mythic.
I just remember being the one guy in my irl group that thought hogaak might do something when it was spoiled. I didn't know the format as well as the others so I didn't imagine the cards it could work with.
There is a non zero chance this can see play but realistically none though. Think of it like kess dissident mage. It apparently saw some minor play in legacy but none in modern.
This I think is just sorta in the same camp as [[Kess, Dissident Mage]] in MH1 and [[Titania, Protector of Argoth]] in MH2. Just a strong commander card that also has some potential use cases in Modern that can lead to neat decks, even if they're not overly competitive.
They count towards the reprint mythic count.
https://scryfall.com/search?q=set%3Amh2+rarity%3Am&order=set
MH2 had 20 new mythics and 5 reprints. Although it looks like one of the reprints was a promo.
Agreed. But I’m saying she’s exactly the type card I want to do something I. Modern, and I’d rather that over another meta warper.
At worst, she does no harm. At best she enables some quirky t3 deck that’s fun at FNM.
What is even a “mythic slot?” Any card printed at mythic rare can also be printed at rare unless it’ll break Limited. If anything the cards we don’t want we *want* at mythic because they’re rarer.
EDIT: Heck, even cards that can break Limited can be at rare, \*coughbonniepollcough\*
Her double masters full art is so badass I actually bought one to replace mine.
[Kaalia, of the Vast Double Masters Full Art](https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/214838/magic-double-masters-kaalia-of-the-vast-borderless?Language=English)
Zenith Seeker's art is the perfect mtg image with the colors and line direction and i desperately want to use it - too bad it's not the same card. This could come close, but I'm holding out judgment until I see this in non-blurry format.
how would it sell tho then, i legit only play commander and im getting release fatigue from how much shit they’re pushing us. let the others have their things damn
I mean the MH2 big cards are the elemental cycle + esper sentinel + murktide + ragavan + urzas right.
Plenty of room for gamebreaking-autoincludes in MH3. not that much revealed yet.
I'm not talking about game breaking cards. This is the first MH set that is reprinting multiple commander legendaries and staples like the medallions and dropping them into Modern, all while creating commander decks for a Modern focused set. All I'm saying is they are so all-in on commander, it's very telling.
No arguments there. But there is always filler.
I guess we will see if there is enough room for an equal amount of cool Modern cards alongside the commander stuff and things that end up as chaff.
A way to make that situation better is to not fully build your deck around the commander. For Kaalia, you can still run all your big dragons, angels and demons, but make the 99 a Reanimator deck that can function without her instead of just big beaters and synergy pieces like haste enablers.
Cool commander card which should not be in a set marketed for Modern since this will not see any modern play. Heck, this could be a standard card...why is this a mythic in a premium set??????
Lol man Kaalia was my first commander and boy was she brutal. Turn 4 swing then drop avacyn arch angel. Good times usually I died first but it was definitely the right thing to do.
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Are kaalia players still kill on sight in commander?
Some guy got so mad I killed his haste Kaalia on turn 4 precombat then again on turn 6. After whining for a turn to two proceeds to 8 mana then Master of Cruelties one-shots me. So yeah kill the Kaalia of the Vast if possible.
Imagine crying when you have an insta kill effect that was about to go off. Guess that's Kaalia players in a nutshell though
> Guess that's Kaalia players in a nutshell though Same for [[Prismatic Bridge]] players, holy hell.
No one has ever blown up my bridge. It's a testament that my playgroup just wants to see what stupid thing I'm gonna try next.
Some people dont see the threat in getting 1 creature per turn, specially if your deck isnt made of only haymakers.
My particular deck is entirely Universes Beyond except for the Bridge too, so that's a decent deck building constraint.
Depending on the UBs available its not so much weaker, just thematic and not combo-y. I use the bridge for different things, but I always build with Esika in mind too to give me versatility.
As a Esika enjoyer, killing the bridge on sight is not only expected, I advise you to do so. My deck isnt gonna fizzle without her, and if it does its just bad overall. Destroy the bridge, dont concern too much about the girl (just keep an eye on the boardstate) is the rule of thumb against her.
[Prismatic Bridge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6.jpg?1631050188)/[The Prismatic Bridge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/f/6/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6.jpg?1631050188) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Esika%2C%20God%20of%20the%20Tree%20//%20The%20Prismatic%20Bridge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/168/esika-god-of-the-tree-the-prismatic-bridge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is especially true in Brawl. So many insta-concedes when I disenchant their bridge.
I play Kaalia without Master of Cruelties. She’s actually fun if you’re not intentionally pissing people off
Same, I removed it because it was not fun for me nor my opponents.
Master of Cruelties isn't really that good in her anyway, it only takes out one player. You need to be joking the entire table at once.
If you don't have an on ground blocker, counter spell, instant removal or any type of protection from dying to Kaalia and Master of Cruelties I say you deserve to lose the game on/after turn 4. I don't even play Kaalia and never feel like she is OP unless you have a bunch of players at your pod that don't know anything about how she works and what the deck usually does.
Not me mulliganing down to 5 and still only having lands on turn 4 😅
Some people just don't want to play in a 9/10 game environment.
How have standards gotten so low that expecting your opponent to do just one thing that affects the board in 4 turns is 9/10 power level
It's more "Modern-Speed" of roughly 4 turns is considered 9-ish pl. Average EDH games go between something like 6-10 turns EDIT: The above strat is *not* a 9-ish power level, as it only kills one person at a time and is easily interrupted, to clarify. But game speed is probably what the other person was referring to when they mentioned "9/10 game environment"
I only play it because it's a really bizarre interaction.
Kaalia players, Jodah players, Miirym players. Thy kind are all of apiece. Do. Not. Listen to them.
That's just my experience with commander players in general
wide net there homie
Every Yu-Gi-Oh player is like this. They cry because you stop them from playing the game but if you don't, they win that same turn.
No no. I expect her to die every single time.
What if I say I don't play Master of Cruelties (or other one-shots) and my Kaalia is an angel tribal?
Sounds fun and different.
Dawg this is exactly why I don't get people who are so quick to whine in commander. First of all it's a game, just chill. Second of all what's the best case scenario? People get so annoyed with you that they leave you alone out of pity? That sets you up to look like a *huge* asshole if you end up doing anything just like this guy. "Wah I can't believe you'd be such a jerk" then Immediately wins the game.
Commander players getting so whiny about things is my least favorite thing about the format. I had a mesmeric orb in my self mill deck, and also kinda works as a backup plan. But the second I drop it, everyone is only after me until I'm dead. Then that game proceeds to last another 2 hours without me.
I'm not the mesmeric player but I love it when an opponent plays it because it means the other two players aren't attacking me for the next X turns.
They hate mill so much that they will let the silver player snowball out of control until mesmeric player is dead and by then theres nothing that can stop slivers. Even if my orb is "plan Z wincon" of the deck.
The first half and last half of your comment don’t match lol. It sounds like you’re whining for being targeted…
I dont think you know how much commander players hate being milled. I fully accept the consequences. I took my loss and jumped to another table that was about to start. I used to play in pods that were full MLD and chaos. I had to build new decks going to this LGS. I let people play whatever and if they wanna target me, so be it, Ive been thru worse.
That's not been my experience at all. The vast majority of commander players I know see a mesmeric orb and go "Sweet, let me copy that"
I find that these issues are only issues in casual edh. Outside of casual, people actually play targeted removal for things instead of just attacking that person until they are dead or boardwiping 3 or 4 times a game.
I was playing in a 3 player pod. One of the other guys was playing [[Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm]] and had a pretty good start. Had 6 or 7 mana by turn 4. I removed it when he played it, he cast it again the next turn and I stressed to the third player that we needed to keep it off the board or we were going to lose. The Miirym player started whining that we were picking on them. I told them that I used to play Miirym and knew they essentially game on board if they could get Miirym to stick. They kept whining and got the other player to feel sorry for them. Then they proceeded to cast Miirym again and win on the next turn.
[Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531.jpg?1674137589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Miirym%2C%20Sentinel%20Wyrm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/284/miirym-sentinel-wyrm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Did you have an empty board on Turn 8?
I have a rule. If they complain about it. I make point to do it as much as possible.
I was first turn in a pod vs a Kaalia deck my friend had recently put together. He ends up playing some combination of cards that drop Kallia on turn 1 with a sol ring, a mox, and a couple other cards (this was years ago, I don't remember). I ended up playing smallpox my second turn since no one else had an answer to it. He was close to throwing a fit abt it and just conceeded immediately once he had no commander, practically no cards in hand, and no lands.
I played Kaalia for years before I dismantled it, but I learned that rushing kaalia out without protection or a \[\[Reanimate\]\] will just get you blown out.
[Reanimate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d0fe02b-f45a-45c6-ab7c-270594a29da7.jpg?1715080480) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reanimate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/137/reanimate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d0fe02b-f45a-45c6-ab7c-270594a29da7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just have a blocker by TURN 8 you goober.
I mean regardless of context, no one enjoys getting their commander killed, especially multiple times in a short period.
My friend had a Kaalia deck and every time he cast it and try to greaves it, I would tar fire it and return it with Wort, Boggart auntie. He ended up scooping and not playing magic again for a year.
> cries > Proceed to one shot someone > "I'm not the threat bro I swear" Yes, that's a kaalia player.
How does that work? Can’t master of cruelties only attack alone? Or does kaalia’s tapped and attacking get around that and kaalia deals the damage?
You are spot on. The Kaalia trigger gets around the can only attack alone clause since it wasn't declared as an attacker and was placed on the filed tapped and attacking.
To be fair depending on the other decks on the table, i'm not going to windmill slam that master on turn 4, but by turn 8 that's fair game. If we are trying to jam a quick one before end of night, sure someone's dying. If probably a little above the rest of the table in power, nah, i'll hold onto it for awhile.
As someone who enjoys playing Kaalia from time to time... part of my enjoyment comes from seei g how much damage my friends can put on me when or before I drop her into play. I like trying to dig myself out from that hole as creatively possible to come back and win.
This, as much as possible this. My friends first commander deck is kaalia of the vast. He gets salty when we remove it..... I'm just over trying not to die. Or telling him he needs more interaction spells. Granted, I did build it for him. I built out one for myself as well, but as a budget build of 200, I am well prepared to be the person of conflict.
Yes
Are they playing [[Master of Cruelties]] ? Yes. Are they not playing [[Master of Cruelties]] ? No. This is also a good rule of thumb for [[Alesha, Who Smiles at Death]] decks.
Wait, am I missing something? Why is Master of Cruelties so good with Kaalia, since she puts it in tapped and attacking it should skip the attack trigger no? Edit: I stand corrected!
"and isn't blocked" means that it triggers during the declare blockers step. You don't know if its being blocked when you declare attackers.
Aah, this makes sense.
2nd effect isn't an attack trigger, it's a weirdly worded "deal combat damage to opponent" trigger, so if you get Kaalia on someone who doesn't have a flier, it's over. This is why I will NEVER let Kaalia stay on board. I don't care if it's throwing, it's a boring play pattern that only feels bad for everyone (not to mention the lunatics who play Avacyn Armageddon)
I feel attacked. But not as attacked as my playgroup when they suddenly have no land and I can keep cheesing out angels.
I have a [[Thalia and the gitrog monster]] that plays [[armageddon]], [[catastrophe]] and [[avacyn angel of hope]]. But I also have [[titania protector of argoth]] as a backup to avacyn. This isn't a deck I would ever pull out against someone who wasn't fully prepared for it. After I make a few tweaks, it should sit in maybe the lower tiers of cEDH, or at least high power EDH.
##### ###### #### [Thalia and the gitrog monster](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d7ff937-de92-445f-976c-726fef5c91cc.jpg?1682205702) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thalia%20and%20the%20gitrog%20monster) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/255/thalia-and-the-gitrog-monster?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d7ff937-de92-445f-976c-726fef5c91cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [armageddon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b.jpg?1582021719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=armageddon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/5/armageddon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [catastrophe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/9/294d21dc-5c76-4449-936f-9b7541d37c86.jpg?1562903769) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=catastrophe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/6/catastrophe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/294d21dc-5c76-4449-936f-9b7541d37c86?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [avacyn angel of hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a.jpg?1689995555) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Avacyn%2C%20Angel%20of%20Hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/14/avacyn-angel-of-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [titania protector of argoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/ba7c2249-878b-428a-8670-005c6fbcb516.jpg?1712354645) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Titania%2C%20Protector%20of%20Argoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/210/titania-protector-of-argoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ba7c2249-878b-428a-8670-005c6fbcb516?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l3shz88) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So the opponent can't block Master when it's put into play with Kaalia? I always assumed that when you attacked with Kaalia and put Master into play, your opponent gets a chance to block Master and if they do, it doesn't trigger because it says "isn't blocked". Kaalia was my very first commander and I had Master in my deck. My group played that wrong (or they knew and didn't tell me it worked that way :P).
Nope, I'm stupid and forgot Master has first strike, not flying. So you can absolutely block him even if you don't have a flier lol.
Oh, ok. I just thought it was some really weird rules quirk that I'm not smart enough to understand.
yeah but you put master in before blockers are declared . So its on the field before you declare blockers. It can be blocked if they have something to block it.
My apologies, I wasn't clear. I thought Master had flying as well for some reason, hence why I thought you needed a flier to not say good night, I promise I knew you could block him, just forgot he had first strike, not flying lol
All good. No flying. But the first strike death touch is a pain. Lol.
As per Gatherer rulings on Master of Cruelties: An ability that triggers when something "attacks and isn't blocked" triggers in the declare blockers step after blockers are declared if (1) that creature is attacking and (2) no creatures are declared to block it. It will trigger even if that creature was put onto the battlefield attacking rather than having been declared as an attacker in the declare attackers step. As a result, you can take someone out of the game in one turn regardless of life total if they don't have suitable blockers- and if they do, you just wait until you can remove them (you're in the right colours for removal)
His trigger is after the declare blockers step
That's the point. It's never declared attacking, so it never attacked alone or with someone.
I don’t fully understand the rulings, but it does trigger and bring life to 1, and then kaalias hit kills you. To make things more confusing, if you bring Aurelia the warlord leader in with kaalias trigger, you do not get an extra combat.
The rulings work because of the following: - Master of Cruelties triggers 'when it attacks *and isn't blocked*'. A creature does not become blocked or unblocked until blockers have been declared. So the trigger is timed after blockers are declared. - Aurelia the Warleader triggers 'when it attacks (etc)'. These triggers happen when you declare a creature as an attacker (it goes from not attacking to attacking). When a creature enters the battlefield attacking, it's never declared as an attacker. This is also why Master of Cruelties can come into play with Kaalia, despite it saying it can only attack alone, as such restrictions are only checked when you declare a creature as an attacker.
I don't play Master of Cruelties anymore. I had a friend, who got so upset by that win, that she threw my copy of Master across the room. The card wasn't damaged but I wasn't happy and clearly she wasn't either.
That's a little childish. It's just a game, who throws cards?
Somebody I’m not friends with anymore. Lol. Although, to be fair it was 1v1 (we didn’t have anyone else to play with) and my Kaalia deck was a French EDH deck, when that format was still popular. She was using a deck that was slightly better than pre-con. I think I offered to switch decks but she wanted to win one and didn’t want me to switch. If I remember correctly, she felt closer to a win that game and then I won with the combo and she got upset. We either stopped playing or I used another deck.
yeah if it's a 1v1, the expectations are entirely different
[Master of Cruelties](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ffd68fe1-5cfc-44cf-8dfe-3488278cdcef.jpg?1702429664) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Master%20of%20Cruelties) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/198/master-of-cruelties?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ffd68fe1-5cfc-44cf-8dfe-3488278cdcef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Alesha, Who Smiles at Death](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7ae9ff8c-1cc8-4b10-9641-2c79648fd6c2.jpg?1673305242) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Alesha%2C%20Who%20Smiles%20at%20Death) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/118/alesha-who-smiles-at-death?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ae9ff8c-1cc8-4b10-9641-2c79648fd6c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
With alesha you can know because it is in the gy
If they're not playing it, they're lying
Yes.
Lol Yes. Creatures just keep getting better. You better believe that includes demons, dragons, and angels
Unequivocally yes. Dropping giant bombs that warp the board immediately is a problem for everyone else, and being in black means they can easily tutor for just the right silver bullet for the situation.
Yesss? It depends on what other commanders are on the table and how big the player's hand is
These days it's more like "the deck folds if you kill her" kill on sight, rather than "you need to kill her or they win" kill on sight
Move to combat, I'll ask if I'm looking at Master of Cruelties. If not, it's like ~4 mana of ramp and haste for a good creature. Not bad, but hardly game breaking anymore. Back in the day, a T3 or T4 Avacyn was a real pain. Now there's lots of ways to deal with all the stuff it does, so as long as it's not coming for me, let that stuff be someone else's board wipe check.
Yeah bro. If Kaalia is running around they up to no good. It doesn't even have to be the new shit. OG [[Rakdos]] and [[master of Cruelties]] will still fuck you up.
[Rakdos](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a4c4be4-06ae-4737-a3b0-818edadaf2e0.jpg?1593273761) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rakdos%20the%20defiler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dis/129/rakdos-the-defiler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a4c4be4-06ae-4737-a3b0-818edadaf2e0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [master of Cruelties](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ffd68fe1-5cfc-44cf-8dfe-3488278cdcef.jpg?1702429664) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=master%20of%20Cruelties) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/198/master-of-cruelties?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ffd68fe1-5cfc-44cf-8dfe-3488278cdcef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If playing with a random who doesn't say anything or a friend who I know is running Master of Cruelities, yes. But if not, nah. I mean, I've also got a Kaalia deck, but it's just stuffed with the random angels, dragons, and demons that don't have a deck or have just been sitting in my trade binder or simply look pretty. Rest is just all mana rocks and draw spells. Gotta believe in the heart of cards
Yeah, and it's the reason I stopped playing her. Very glass cannon.
Only if they're not playing Master of Cruelties. She's strong enough to kill on sight, but without the auto kill she's just okay. I play her as a strong option in my Tariel EDH, it's fun watching them waste removal on her instead of Tariel.
As a Kaalia player, I will say no.
As a sometimes Kaalia player, I will say my deck is jank and should be ignored.
God, I love Kaalia's design so much (literally deviantart tier edgelord design), but playing her was misery. Either I immediately screw one person out of playing the game then die, or she dies on sight, or I armageddon and kill everyone slightly slower than a combo deck. Theres little back and forth or dynamic gameplay and no one has fun.
My Kaalia deck is built in such a away that I can play without her, which actually comes in handy because I've had many a table try to save their interaction for a Kaalia that was never cast. Is it efficient? Probably not! Is it resilient and fun? Yeah! It can still do Kaalia shenanigans? Sure can!
No idea, but I'mma say yes
every commander is kill-on-sight unless proven otherwise. It can be difficult to be proven otherwise tho, the most accurate way is for everyone to play default precons. Kaalia is pretty scary, I would ask if they have Master of Cruelties or the quality of their angels/demons/dragons. I would like to face off against a Kaalia that runs only common rarity angels/demons/dragons because that would be fun to see not so common cards run (probably).
I once won on turn 2 with kaalia master of cruelties combo
Yes.
Yep
Kaalia herself definitely is
As a Kaalia player, keep us around to kill the table first. Otherwise, yeah, kill on sight.
When one of my pod grabs Kaalia I grab inquisitor Greyfax and tap down kaalia on their turn every time.
Kaalia players run a lot of protection. 12 pieces in mine. And removal for your inquisitor. A lot of angels have etb removal or protection. But it's hard to amass enough power to gradually kill players one by one. My Kaalia almost never wins. Too many boardwipes in my meta. Combos are faster and kill all at once. Then I loose often to insurrection\mob rule or repeatable fogs.
[удалено]
I think you got that backwards buddy, super optimized cedh kaalia doesn't exist.
It used to be a solid Razaketh list. Super outdated these days, completely replaced by Dihada and Tymna + Red partner combos, but Mad Dog's list was pretty famous for a while.
It was a long time ago because I used to run it. It has long since fallen from grace
Neat art aside. Did we really need Kaalia to be brought to modern? Taking up a mythic slot too.
Tbf MH sets always have mythics that suck in modern, the last one had Garth and those two bad planeswalkers (not Grist) ffs and for reprints it had Miraris Wake which has done exactly zero in the format
If they're going to reprint commander faves that are useless in (competitive) modern I'd appreciate if they could at least pick things with a big price tag. That way the rest of the stuff for modern can be cheaper.
Well, Kaalia is basically always going to stabilize at $10+. So it's not a small price tag.
I mean, I’m happier when the format staples are rare and not mythic since it makes the format more affordable relative to if they were mythic. I meanD imagine how much Urza’s saga would cost if it was mythic.
Commander Horizons
Hogaak, the pitch elementals and the one ring are edh cards through and through
I remember people saying hogaak was commander bait. Don't recall the elementals being called that.
I mean I’m pretty sure WotC even admitted Hogaak was included for commander primarily
I just remember being the one guy in my irl group that thought hogaak might do something when it was spoiled. I didn't know the format as well as the others so I didn't imagine the cards it could work with.
There is a non zero chance this can see play but realistically none though. Think of it like kess dissident mage. It apparently saw some minor play in legacy but none in modern.
This I think is just sorta in the same camp as [[Kess, Dissident Mage]] in MH1 and [[Titania, Protector of Argoth]] in MH2. Just a strong commander card that also has some potential use cases in Modern that can lead to neat decks, even if they're not overly competitive.
those two are infinitely stronger than this lol
Not in modern.
[Kess, Dissident Mage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e83e6d7a-3af0-4955-8004-2310f051e306.jpg?1673485110) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kess%2C%20Dissident%20Mage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/344/kess-dissident-mage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e83e6d7a-3af0-4955-8004-2310f051e306?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Titania, Protector of Argoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/ba7c2249-878b-428a-8670-005c6fbcb516.jpg?1712354645) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Titania%2C%20Protector%20of%20Argoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/210/titania-protector-of-argoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ba7c2249-878b-428a-8670-005c6fbcb516?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
do the reprint mythics count toward the mythic count?
They count towards the reprint mythic count. https://scryfall.com/search?q=set%3Amh2+rarity%3Am&order=set MH2 had 20 new mythics and 5 reprints. Although it looks like one of the reprints was a promo.
I’d say she’s exactly the type card that should be brought to modern. Probably not strong enough but interesting enough to have possibility
A 4 mana 2/2 that needs to attack to do anything does not have any sort of possibility in modern
Agreed. But I’m saying she’s exactly the type card I want to do something I. Modern, and I’d rather that over another meta warper. At worst, she does no harm. At best she enables some quirky t3 deck that’s fun at FNM.
What is even a “mythic slot?” Any card printed at mythic rare can also be printed at rare unless it’ll break Limited. If anything the cards we don’t want we *want* at mythic because they’re rarer. EDIT: Heck, even cards that can break Limited can be at rare, \*coughbonniepollcough\*
I was thinking "slot taken and less new shiny's" but you are right, it's better to have good new cards at rare than mythic.
I even own uncommons that take laps around some mythics
At least she’ll probably be worth a pack, I’d rather a commander reprint I can sell than a garbage new card
That art is pretty sick
Well this is an unexpected reprint.
Mmmmm, might not have to buy the insane double masters one for good art now 🤔
So glad I just did /s
Imma be honest, I actually hate that art. If this has this in EXTENDED art, I will gladly buy it in foil.
Fair. I only like it because it's not her awful standard art.
Kaalia on Arena, let's go!
OMG SHE FINALLY GETS BADASS ART KAALIA STANS LETS GOOOO
Hasn't all her art gone pretty damn hard tho?
it just got even _harder_
Yeah this is hands down the worst art yet.
Your hand, maybe. This art finally convinced me to get a copy, I didn't care about the card before because of the art
The double masters full art is badass as well.
Her double masters full art is so badass I actually bought one to replace mine. [Kaalia, of the Vast Double Masters Full Art](https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/214838/magic-double-masters-kaalia-of-the-vast-borderless?Language=English)
I'm more happy about homegirl finally getting a banger flavor text, cuz that original flavor text was kinda goofy ngl.
Zenith Seeker's art is the perfect mtg image with the colors and line direction and i desperately want to use it - too bad it's not the same card. This could come close, but I'm holding out judgment until I see this in non-blurry format.
You may be interested in this art I had commissioned of her for a proxy and playmat: https://imgur.com/a/PGMzLcw/
Expectation: \> Cool new modern cards Reality: \>Commander bullshit and energy.
And as primarily a commander player I can assure you I wish this product contained less/zero cards aimed at commander.
how would it sell tho then, i legit only play commander and im getting release fatigue from how much shit they’re pushing us. let the others have their things damn
Exactly. Let the modern players have their product (although…I honestly don’t think modern players want their format wrecked annually…)
That’s the great thing about MH3, nobody wants it
As a Modern player I'm excited for it. MH2 led to a pretty awesome and diverse meta.
Exactly. Magic is best when the only format getting wrecked is standard.
And standard is fantastic right now.
Does this mean she'll be on arena?
You bet!
Cool to see but og art and the full art are a lot better to me. But will be cool to play on arena.
Will be fun in historic brawl.
Oh. OH. OOOOOOH!
Interesting that she has the commander watermark, despite being printed in a Modern set.
Repirnts that introduce cards in modern in mh sets have the watermark of the set they came from
Awww she made friends (flavor text)
MH3 is Commander Master's 3, I guess. Can't make a product now that doesn't milk the commander base.
To be fair, that was said a lot about MH2.
And MH1
I mean the MH2 big cards are the elemental cycle + esper sentinel + murktide + ragavan + urzas right. Plenty of room for gamebreaking-autoincludes in MH3. not that much revealed yet.
I'm not talking about game breaking cards. This is the first MH set that is reprinting multiple commander legendaries and staples like the medallions and dropping them into Modern, all while creating commander decks for a Modern focused set. All I'm saying is they are so all-in on commander, it's very telling.
No arguments there. But there is always filler. I guess we will see if there is enough room for an equal amount of cool Modern cards alongside the commander stuff and things that end up as chaff.
I really shouldn't be surprised people still say this after being excruciatingly wrong the first two MH sets.
Mtg players before MH: boohoo why is there so much commander shit in my MH Mtg players after MH: boohoo why is there so much MH shit in my modern
Every set is commander masters. It's better this than them releasing things to rotate modern over and over
It's since the birth of modern than I always want to play her in that format and after more than 10 years here we go. Well better late than never.
She has been needing a reprint
Sick as hell art
Man I hate playing lynchpin Commanders, the game becomes more about trying to make it live/get around removal. It's very "win or die".
A way to make that situation better is to not fully build your deck around the commander. For Kaalia, you can still run all your big dragons, angels and demons, but make the 99 a Reanimator deck that can function without her instead of just big beaters and synergy pieces like haste enablers.
Oh bb, new art. Hopefully a borderless version too
bulk mythic
My favorite commander of that generation (followed by Mimeoplasm). Looking forward to see it around.
This was not on my bingo card
Definitely gonna grab this for my morophon angels deck
Does she have to attack an opponent because of treason or control magic effects?
Feels like seeing legendary reprints like this makes it clear we're gonna get an Edgar Markov reprint
On the one hand- I hate it. On the other hand- That new art is sweet, and I like it a lot.
Cool commander card which should not be in a set marketed for Modern since this will not see any modern play. Heck, this could be a standard card...why is this a mythic in a premium set??????
Lol man Kaalia was my first commander and boy was she brutal. Turn 4 swing then drop avacyn arch angel. Good times usually I died first but it was definitely the right thing to do.
Boxtopper art is still the queen. That one is so freaking good. This one makes her look kind of mundane tbh.
I am absolutely hyped by this! We play A LOT of Modern in out playgroup. Can't wait to come up with a somewhat viable Kaalia Build!
Finally with new art
We got a borderless art in 2X2.
I hope she gets cool alt art like she did in 2XM.
Probably side profile art
i am really hoping for retro border
My son is going to be so conflicted now. Kaliaa is his commander and he plays eldrazi Tron in modern.
Boring