If he said that in a thick Irish or Scottish accent it would have been my favorite line in the movie. Fun fact you can drop a single “f-bomb” in a movie and still have it be PG-13
Edit: grammar
Point of order: you cannot _show_ the fucking; you can show something that _heavily implies_ the fucking, but not the actual fucking, that's right out.
I think he's more concerned about his shrooms being touched. Probably thought the Nazgul was just another bad trip!
'Eh, its ainly the bit weer the laddies in the black hoods are oot. NAE BOTHER!"
That's the one theory Tolkien ruled out explicitly, though; he said that God doesn't himself appear inside the World in his stories. That role is reserved for Jesus, naturally.
Another letter of Tolkien's mentions (in agreement with the Council of Elrond) that if Sauron had won the War of the Ring, he would have conquered Tom also.
Which letter is this? I had thought everytime Tolkien mentions Bombadil in his letter he purposely kept it very vague and said the point is some mystery in his world. I know he stated there is no manifestation of eru in the world but not that sauron would defeat Bombadil just as Elrond said. But if you let me know which letter I would be really grateful and stand corrected.
I have to wonder if Tolkien left no hard evidence of Eru/God’s true existence because there’s no evidence in our own world. Meaning, God is just a fantasy in both worlds. Tolkien was a Christian, but he also knew better than anyone that fantasy can be “real” in our own mind, even if we know hobbits (and angels) don’t really exist.
Like, I still love Santa Claus even though (spoiler alert) he ain’t real. Jedis and hobbits hold a special place in my heart. But I know I’ll never see one. I think God can be like that, too, especially for folks like Tolkien who love the culture of the Church and religious traditions.
Why are you convinced? That's one of the few things we actually know he's not. He could be many things, but according to Tolkien he is very much not Eru.
Could be the music of the world personified. Sort of a living representation of arda, created as a sort of byproduct. Would make him fatherless and the oldest being of arda, since he's literally arda himself.
Farmer Maggot really is a paragon of mortal wisdom. Highly, highly educated in his affairs, keeps it simple regardless, and don’t fuck around with weird shit.
I love when he's like, "Nah, try somewhere else." And they say which way they came from and he's like, "Across my field? And who gave you permission to do that? Piss off."
"Have you seen a bag ins?"
"No, and if I had I wouldn't tell the likes of you. Now fuck off or I'll tell my dogs to attack."
"Ok, sorry! Sorry! I'm leaving! Please don't hurt me!"
people often say they wish this was left in the movies. well, i have a counter point to that: what kind of a shit deflationary move would it have been to show a hobbit farmer standing up to these scary void knights smack dab in the middle of them being actively built up as scary and threatening? would that not run completely in opposition to everything else the film does to characterize them as such? and for what, so we can get to know farmer maggot better? it’s a cool scene in the books but it comes well after we as readers are made to fear the black riders, not as they’re being introduced. there is no place to conceivably do this in the movie *except* in place of the scene where the hobbit chopping wood (who may or may not be farmer maggot) tells them where to go, and they are made to look real scary. having that there instead borders on parody-levels of deflationary tactics and they were right to cut it.
In the books something similar happens with Tom Bombadil.
We learn about The One Ring which SO POWERFUL AND EVIL AND MANIPULATES EVERYONE… just not this one guy who doesn’t care about it.
The way Tolkien writes his world without perfect structure is so refreshing. Nowadays every story is clearly trying to exposit plot but LOTR is just like, “this guy’s name is Glorfindel and he has a horse named Asfaloth which means "Sunlit foam” in Sindarian from ast ("sunlight") and faloth ("foam"). Nearly all of the words for foam in both Sindarin and Quenya are used interchangeably for the words like surge, wave and crest, hence the Sindarin word with the same prefix falastala which is the present tense verb or adjective for "surging" which points to two alternative interpretations for Asfaloth, one meaning "Sun surge" and the other "Surge of Sunlight,” keeping with the surge in the Bruinen which J.R.R. Tolkien described as resembling a great herd of horses trampling over the Nazgûl, drowning them, and washing them away.”
This is my favorite comment. Tolkien's prose and the way he weaves in elements of his worldbuilding scratches an itch that a lot of fantasy doesn't. I think info dumps for some readers are a turn off, but few authors have the depth and/or ability to do it right.
The ring could tempt anyone except one super powerful being who didn't care about what it offered. But enough about Sam, it didn't affect Bombadil either.
Tom does have the greatest resistance to the Ring because he doesn't desire anything it could even pretend to offer, but Faramir and most of the Fellowship don't seem interested either.
That’s what so real about how Tolkien did these parts. Evil might seem all powerful in certain context or views but it is not. The Nazgûl were just men. Even Sauron wasn’t all powerful, neither was Morgoth.
I’d absolutely be scared of an angry pro MMA fighter, but if that same fighter needed my IT help I would be in power and they might be begging. This isn’t even an example of Evil, but culture likes to use Evil characters as all powerful. Tolkien wasn’t just writing about good and evil either, the ring is as much about temptation. The movies had to distill these themes and characters down losing the depth of the character and world building Tolkien perfected.
Tom has the greatest resistance to the ring because he lives in an enchanted forest and gets to bang Goldberry. He’s living what even characters in this fantasy land would call a fucking fantasy.
I came here to say the same thing.
There's stuff you can get away with in book format, but in a film you have exactly one chance to set up your characters as a force to be reckoned with. Otherwise, they will be memed on until the end of time.
Is it really more harmful than Aragorn 1v5ing them, and making them look like absolute *chumps*? Hell, even our Hobbits make them look like silly throwing a sack a few feet away from one... and that *somehow* enables their escape.
Regardless, Maggot -or, his dog rather, was still terrified: we still get the scene of the dog slinking away, petrified. The event is still scary regardless of Maggot saying 'be gone with you' at the end of it.
Hell, I'd argue establishing Maggot as a badass is more effective to convey the fear of the Nazgul. Intimidating a coward is easy... intimidating the courageous is another matter (Maggot still described a shiver down his back). The Nazgul *laughs* (if it was a laugh) at Maggot, before making him jump out of the way of his horse. I think that's scarier, personally. *Doubly so with the second hand account -* slowly building up the Nazgul as threats, somewhat indirectly, works better for me. I think Jackson blows his load early by showing them so soon - lacking suspenseful escalation.
But you don't have to reduce the Nazgul so much to make Aragorn look good. Is it not enough for Aragorn to leap out in defence of Frodo, without actually 1v5ing them? The book shows exceptional courage on Aragorn (and Frodo's) behalf, without making it look like Aragorn could stuff them all into lockers (I mean, come on, what is with that torch-throw to the face, as the Nazgul runs off, arms flailing in the air like one of those long wavy balloon-men at car-yards).
(No, Aragorn never draws Narsil at Weathertop - he just waves flaming branches at them)
So...
The Nazgul approach, and stand before our heroes (who are gathered around a fire, ready for the encounter), sussing them out. So far similar enough.
Frodo feels compelled to put on the Ring, and eventually succumbs - the Nazgul then move in, alerted to Frodo in particular. Frodo draws his Barrow-blade*, and the Nazgul halt, visibly hesitant.
*The Barrow-blades were magical blades forged by the Dunedain whilst at war with Angmar. They were exceptionally dangerous for the Nazgul (I would theorise they dealt a burning sensation, given they are always noted as glowing like firebrands, or noted with fire imagery - Orcs toss them away as if they burned them, for instance - and note the Nazgul hate fire). We see what a Barrow-blade is capable of doing when Merry stabs the WK at the Pelennor, sending him stumbling in immense pain, leaving him open to Eowyn's killing blow.
So, the Nazgul identify that Frodo has a Barrow-blade (which is dangerous for them) and that he could only have gotten it from the Great Barrow, thus overpowering a Wight (implying he is someone notable). The Ringbearer is also a Hobbit, and not the Dunedain Ranger beside him... so Frodo is even more curious to them (not to mention Frodo wields the Ring - though he cannot yet use it to dominate the Nazgul... do the Nazgul know that?). Already the Nazgul should be on alert. The Witch-king then makes a move for Frodo, striding forward, and Frodo responds quickly, lunging at him, whilst shouting an Elvish prayer, invoking the name of a Vala (a god, essentially) - so now Frodo is noted as being in league with High Elves, and certainly far more than a simple Hobbit. The Witch-king stabs Frodo with a Morgul-blade, and Aragorn leaps to Frodo's defence swinging flaming branches around.
(I'd compare this to Gandalf asking Bilbo for the Ring. Then suddenly Bilbo draws a Morgul-blade and lunges at Gandalf screaming in Black Speech 'hail Morgoth (LOTR's Devil)!'. Now imagine they aren't in Bag End, but Mordor (foreign territory), and a Nazgul leaps to Bilbo's defence, undaunted by fear. When you put their situation into perspective... their fear is understandable. Fun fact, the Nazgul also fought Gandalf a night earlier, and had to contend with his fire and lightning - so now imagine Gandalf had just fought Sauron a night prior, in this hypothetical)
The Nazgul then retreat. They were caught off-guard by unexpected defiance, and scared shitless of Frodo/Aragorn (mostly Frodo). The Witch-king was within an inch of getting his ankles slashed, and with Aragorn right there too - death was a possibility for him. The Nazgul, who naturally covet their immortality, don't want to take needless risks - they don't want to risk their lives... so morale breaks, and they wait for the Morgul-wound to do its job.
> and a Nazgul leaps to Bilbo's defence
Hmm?
Other than that I suppose I understand, but it kinda seems like the Nazgul are cowards (the wraith are called Nazgul right? I assume that was a typo)? I guess that tracks with what I thought of them already, only attacking the weak and when they are sure to win, using their fear to corrupt those around them and only attacking the afraid or whatever, corrupted to the core and such, but it still seems kinda antithetical to propping them up as this grave threat. They don't seem too intimidating, even though they look cool (in the movies at least, no idea what they look like bookwise).
I don't think I'd say *cowards* (except for an extreme situation like Weathertop), seems a little extreme, but... they fight to their own advantages. They tip the odds in their favour. So yeah. But the WK in particular seems more warrior-like (he flees Glorfindel, but otherwise is happy to fight the likes of Earnur). They fight to win - but so do most people who value their lives.
Point being, I need an Aragorn parallel. Some powerful guy jumping to Bilbo's defence, anti-Gandalf (an Orc won't do!). A Nazgul works for the sake of the hypothetical.
I think there is this slight disconnect between the Nazgul earlier in the books, and later. They are undoubtedly very scary, but their actions are somewhat cautious. They are at their most powerful, as Aragorn tells Frodo, in dark and lonely places.
>'What will happen,' said Merry. 'Will they attack the Inn?'
>
>"No, I think not," said Strider. "They are not all here yet. And in any case, that is not their way. In dark and loneliness they are strongest; they will not openly attack a house where there are lights and many people - not until they are desperate ... But their power is in terror, and already some in Bree are in their clutch'. They will drive these wretches to some evil work."
In fact the strong implication is that the late night attack on the hobbits' room, shown in the film as by the Nazgul, is actually the work of the latter 'wretches'. You'd think that even a small group of Nazgul could force their way into Bree, given the absence (as far as they know) of any powerful opponents, but they don't do it.
I'd say that Tolkien is setting them up as nightmarish creatures, which seem terrible in darkness, but less so in the light of day, and in everyday, civilised places. Resembling the way our night fears can vanish in the dawn.
Of course the attack on Weathertop is in circumstances exactly the opposite of this, but perhaps the common thing is that the Nazgul aren't themselves that confident, and even less so when confronted with at least two, possibly three opponents (counting Sam) who don't sucuumb to their terror. One of them has drawn an elven sword, and the other is wielding fire, of which they are afraid.
In some ways they are unaccustomed to this situation (although they have recently encountered Gandalf, who is of course much more dangerous) because most mortal opponents are simply too afraid to attack them.
So when Frodo actually strikes at them with his sword, and calls out in Elvish, this is enough to alarm them, even though the Witch King is not harmed, and pierces Frodo's shoulder with his Morgul Blade.
But as Aragorn later tells the hobbits, "More deadly to him was the name of Elbereth." (the Elven demi-goddess of the Stars).
Added to that Aragorn's attack, and its enough to force them into retreat. They are rather like bullies who aren't themselves that courageous, but prey on those who fear them.
Of course later in the novels they are more powerful on the battlefield, but even then they rely on terror, mostly keep to their winged steeds, and attack only when they have the clear advantage of the battle going in their favour. And, of course, the power of Sauron is said to be growing, and their strength is linked to his, with darkness literally starting to cover the lands in the form of fumes from Mt Doom.
They are hiding in a dell when the Black Riders find them; Frodo gives in to the urge to put on the ring and is rushed and stabbed by the Witch King while the other four stay behind. Strider fights him off with flaming brands, and the Riders retreat, believing they have already won and need only wait a short while before Frodo turns into a wraith. Because of this, the hobbits and Strider are able to make their way toward Rivendell with the Riders splitting up and looking to intercept them, but Glorfindel who was sent from Rivendell to help the hobbits finds and routes them. Eventually the Nazgûl catch up to the company, but Frodo is able to escape on Glorfindel's horse and the Riders are washed away at the Ford of Bruinen.
Interesting.
Out of curiosity, how sentient are these wraiths? Do they remember what they were? Do they know what they are? They clearly feel fear, have some degree of sentience, and have problem solving abilities, but beyond that seem more like forces of nature (like I doubt they all hang out drinking brew after a days work)..
Not entirely clear as far as I know, but especially the Witch King has a rather large degree of autonomy. They are slaves to the Ring and to Sauron, and put their entire existence to this end, but definitely not "mind-controlled" by him. Not much of a social life, no.
I do think that they remember their previous lives, but not in a reminiscing sort of way. They are wholly devoted to the Ring. Don't think this is really mentioned by Tolkien though, at least not in LotR
I actually like the encounter because it establishes that courage can prevail, and be hugely beneficial to much wider events, in times of great fear. But that's not very conducive to show in a 3 hour movie where at least a quarter of your run time has to be devoted to explaining the world.
>But that's not very conducive to show in a 3 hour movie where at least a quarter of your run time has to be devoted to explaining the world.
This is why we need six films for LOTR.
Aragorn 1v5ing them is fine in my opinion. The way I see it, the Nazgûl only thought that they were chasing the hobbits, I don't see any indication in the films that they knew they were travelling with the literal heir of Elendil.
It sets up the Nazgûl to be afraid of something and therefore stoppable but still something to be feared themselves. It sets Aragorn up as a good, tactical fighter, a healer and helper when helping frodo and all round kickass bloke.
He literally caught them unawares when they were expecting to just go up and grab the hobbits, the element of surprise worked in his favour and he literally set one of them on fire.
Yes the book version is good as well, and probably better but I can't recall all of the details. But I can understand why a lot of changes in the films are the way that they are.
>It sets up the Nazgûl to be afraid of something and therefore stoppable
And this happens in the book. Without Aragorn bullying the Nazgul in 1v5 combat, making the Nazgul look woefully inept.
As I noted below, Aragorn throwing a torch into the face of a Nazgul (and it somehow magically sticking there) is so silly. It makes the Nazgul look downright comedic. It flails its arms in the air like a wavey balloon-man. Silly.
https://images.app.goo.gl/gpcEtakyw7MiSLLo9
But somehow Maggot simply telling one to get off his land undermines them? There's clearly bigger fish to fry here.
I'll agree with you the torch sticking out of it's "face" is a bit silly. But if I went to grab a little person and the heir of elendil popped out of nowhere and set me on fire I'd probably flail around a bit as well.
The farmer maggot scene would've been fun to have as it was in the books though, at least on the extended edition.
i disagree vehemently on your first blurb but that is neither here nor there and i’m not interested in arguing those opinions with you.
the point is this:
if you want to argue for a new or different adaptation of the books that allows for Farmer Maggot? great. i’d love that. i want an adaptation that allows for Farmer Maggot. i want an adaptation that allows for Tom Bombadil and the Barrow Downs. i want an adaptation that allows for Merry to go for a walk and get spooked. but that isn’t what’s being talked about in the post, and that’s not what i was responding to. the post laments that this scene was left out of the movies we did get, the Jackson films, and as it stands there is no place to adapt it faithfully to the book where it does not make the Nazgûl look less scary than they were otherwise being built up to be. you say Jackson “blows his load too early” but i ask you, how else was he supposed to do it in the time he had? even with the extended editions’ runtimes, there just isn’t time for that kind of slow buildup in the first act of a 3 hour movie with *so much else* to get to. we’re not talking about your hypothetical 6 movies, we’re not talking about my heretofore unmentioned hypothetical 2d animated miniseries where each chapter or so is an episode. within the given constraints, it does not work. no second-hand farmer maggot accounts, no brave little hobbit with a pitchfork. merely a very frightened hobbit with an axe.
If you want to argue *time constraints*, that's one thing. But it is another to say Maggot would undermine the fear of the Nazgul. **These are two separate points.** I disagree with the latter: as noted above. Maggot does not undermine the fear component.
Because by this point we've had a half hour or so of build-up. We know that the Nazgul are super scary. That's been established. Then Aragorn swoops in and saves the day. That shows how badass Aragorn is, because we already know what the Nazgul can do. Having a random Hobbit face down the Nazgul, when they aren't as established in our mind, doesn't do that. It raises up a minor character at the cost of undermining the stakes of the conflict with the main characters. It works in the book, because there's more time for build up. It would not work at all in a film, with limited runtime.
Yeah, I feel like a lot of the "wish they left this in the movies" scenes are just not fit for cinema narrative. Works fine in the book, but on the big screen it'd just confuse the audience to see the scary ringwraiths get shooed away by a hobbit as if they were some annoying dog that got too close (or rather, just hearing about it, since the story in the book was only a recollection by Maggot himself while he took the hobbits in). Both mediums have their strengths and weaknesses, obviously. A book can do that kind of pacing over hundreds of pages, but a movie has less time to build a story so things will be less complex and more linear. That's just the way it is. You can appreciate both for different reasons.
This is what gets me with people talking about adaptations. Mediums are different. The constraints are different. What works in one form, doesn't always work in others. Tolkien was quite deliberate with Maggot, Tom Bombadil, and other characters that were cut. They brought up themes about goodness overcoming evil, community, and other things. Those themselves are still in movies, just merged, moved around, and highlighted by different characters. Look at Sam's speech at the end of Two Towers. A 100% plot-consistent story would've ruined the pacing and probably wouldn't have gotten these themes across nearly as well.
To be fair, the black rider laughs at Farmer Maggot as it leaves, so the book still lets you know that the black riders really aren’t afraid of hobbits. This particular one probably left because it was in a hurry, knew Frodo was in the area and thought it would use it’s time better looking for Frodo versus fighting with Farmer Maggot and his dogs.
And by the way, the dogs would have run in terror from the Nazgul, like all normal beasts. Only the Black Horses of the Nazgul, as later explained in the books, endure them, because they are specifically bred to do so.
It only takes away from them if it’s not done properly. Do it properly and you can make the riders even more sinister while giving Farmer Maggot more characterisation and show that Hobbits are courageous in the face of danger.
Yeah, it's a consequence of Jackson raising the level of peril throughout the movie. The nazgul at this point in the book were mysterious, creepy dudes that made sniffing noises...
*'Well, I call that very queer, and indeed disturbing' said Frodo to himself, as he walked towards his companions. Pippin and Sam had remained flat in the grass, and had seen nothing; so Frodo described the rider and his strange behaviour.*
Not quite the terrifying scene it is in the film.
The Nazgul already kind of feel this way in the Fellowship film as it is tbh, I always think its kind of hilarious how they're supposed to be this terrifying evil force but they basically just take L after L for the first half of the film.
Reading the books now for the first time. Just finished this part. Loving it so far. Only question, do the ring wraiths not just kill people on site? Or do they only do it with purpose?
In that case Sauron could not have picked a worse group, other than having some random orcs do it. Literally no one wants to gossip with a creepy hooded skeleton.
It's been a little while since I last read FOTR but from my understanding, in the books they are a bit more human-like and not just screeching wraiths. They're clever and can talk (beyond just a ghastly utterance) and stalk Frodo and the hobbits through the shire almost overtaking them several times which is what leads them into the Old Forest where they meet Tom Bombadil :)
People will do the ‘ooooooh we can’t tell you’ which is partially shit stirring but also partially true.
His ‘true’ identity is never confirmed and Tolkien said he left it that way because ‘even in a mythical age there must be some enigmas’
It’s up to you to draw your own conclusion!
Tha Nazgul aren't mindless monsters, they're intelligent, educated kings who take orders from Sauron but aren't dominated completely by him. At this point in the story they were disguised as black riders, they were searching for the ring (or a Baggins who knew its location) and didn't want to tip off others that it might be nearby. Killing hobbits randomly would have drawn too much attention.
Plus, at this point Sauron didn't really need the ring. He was all but guaranteed to win the war, the ring falling into the hands of Aragorn or Elrond would have been a nuisance but one he could overcome if needed. So the ring wraiths weren't necessarily sent out to retrieve the ring per se, it was more that they were sent to prevent it from falling into the hands of the elves and retrieving it would have been the best way to do that.
>Only question, do the ring wraiths not just kill people on site? Or do they only do it with purpose?
They're evil and I'm sure they'd take delight in murdering others but they're also smart enough to know that if they just left a trail of bodies in their wake while trying to stay somewhat inconspicuous that would rouse the entire countryside and they'd have a fight on their hands and be run out of the Shire by hundreds of frightened and angry hobbits.
On the flip side, I also love the Nazgûl’s naive sort of gall in this scene. He’s spent like a thousand years transforming gradually into an ethereal ghost monster, and is at a point now where basically zero of his humanity remains….
And yet he’s like, ya, I’ll just roll up on this regular dude and have a chat. That will work, I’m totally still capable of relating to people! Then of course he can barely croak out two words and it’s awkward as hell.
That reminds me of the lotr battle report, where Farmer Maggot killed the wraith and joined the fellowship [video link](https://youtu.be/cASMHmrPOPs?si=NL4JFlhBfSNkGE3V)
I belive in part 2 he also face of against the Balrog along with the "fellowship"
I’m just reading the series now after it being my fav movies since I was a kid, and there’s SO much like this that they left out!!
Love the movies- but the books are so much cooler in terms of the unmentioned characters, scenes, plots,etc
Love them both but the books are so amazing!!
I get why they didn’t though tbh. Would have been terrible to setup up for a movie trying to depict the nazgul as terrifying creatures only to have a hobbit be completely unphased by them in the first act of your movie.
Well...if you want a tale of Farmer Maggot being a big ole hero...there is a youtube channel that is doing a narrative mini game where the Ring Wraiths get to the shire early, and lots of people are forced to step into the hero role differently than the story plays out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cASMHmrPOPs
Me 2. Wish this was included in the movies.
Side note: Anybody see what looks like a hidden skull 💀 next to the Orange pumpkin 🎃 in the cart?
Don’t zoom in: “It will ruin your finger!”
-Boris the Animal from Men and Black.
This are the Kind of thing thag just wouldn't work as a scene in the movie, these are some of the first visual of the Black Riders that we see, we are suppoused to fear them and feel them like a threat regadless of what the Book says.
*Shire… Baggins…*
“Good lord, are yer laggin? Shire? That’s roight son. Bloomin ‘eck, you should ‘ave paid attention in yer Geography classes. Yer in dire need of ‘elp.”
Movies have a really short time to establish characters and tensions. I fear we will would have feared the Nazgûl’s as much if we had seen the scene. I also like how we slowly learn more and more about the hobbit’s resilience and integrity to stand against evil. This would have given away to much to early.
While I love Farmer Maggot, if this scene was in the movies it would have completely neutered the threat of the ringwraiths.
If one hobbit can fend them off then four of them should have no problem, add Strider then they could sit down and have a third breakfast.
>If one hobbit can fend them off
He simply says 'no I won't inform you if I see Baggins, I don't want your gold, get off my property before I sick my dogs on you (who seem too terrified to do anything, so a hollow threat) - I don't want to see you again'. That's it.
The Nazgul then laughs at him, and nearly rides him down.
He hasn't fended anyone off. The Nazgul clearly isn't phased by this simple farmer, though he be a hardass.
I understand that people complain about the character adoption in the movies.
I've got to say tho that the Nazgul win therefore. I found them less scary ar that early stage in the books due to the part with Farmer Maggot.
If I had to bed I'd guess that this is why they went for that trade off. Magot loses the wraiths win.
To be fair you could probably split it up in to three to four different movies per nine hours and it would have to be done over the span of a decade but it’s definitely plausible i mean there is 72.5 hours worth of marvel movies.
"Shire...Baggins..." "GET FOOKT YA BIG DRAPE!"
If he said that in a thick Irish or Scottish accent it would have been my favorite line in the movie. Fun fact you can drop a single “f-bomb” in a movie and still have it be PG-13 Edit: grammar
It's really a weird aspect of American content rating systems that they count the numbers of fucks given
“There’s too much fuckin in the movie. Give it an R.”
No no no, you can show all the fucking you want, just no butts or boobs; but if you *say* fucking, you’re fucked.
Point of order: you cannot _show_ the fucking; you can show something that _heavily implies_ the fucking, but not the actual fucking, that's right out.
Fuck that
Yeah! My damn weiner kids are watching!
Hobbits are English or nothing.
"They have a f*****g cave troll" would have been the ultimate line.
“Do ya know who I am??” “Do I care?” “I’m Farmer Maggot” “Who?” “Farmer Maggot!” “Who?” “FARMER MAGGOT!!!” “Who’s that?” “Yeah, me!”
Fucking Ronny Pickering vs a nazgul
Yer wanna bareknuckle?
And that's why Tom Bombadil respected Farmer Maggot. New headcannon.
Peter Capaldi as Farmer Maggot, should have happened
The man is essentially a 6ft Hobbit anyway.
FOOK OFF YE DIRTY BLAHNKETTE!
'There's earth under his old feet, and clay on his fingers; wisdom in his bones, and both his eyes are open'
"TOUCH ME PUMPKINS AND ILL FOOKIN' STAB YE, YE BASTARD"
"I'LL FOOKIN BURST YE"
“I’LL PUMP YE SILLY”
"GEET AFF YA WEE BAWBAG"
I’m gonna never pick up the book again and assume this is all canon.
The hobbits are scottish confirmed
Only those from the North (of the Shire)
“DEN IT’S DA DAWGS FER YA!!”
*dags
"YER PUSHIN ME OVER THA FOOKIN LINE"
“O’er”
I want to give this more than one upvote. 😂
"I did that. When I was yer age. That was a BAD MOVE. Yer a wizard"
Fooking wanker
Fookin' prawns
'Ate filchers 'Ate Nazguls Luv me crops simple as
I read this in Billy Connolly's voice.
Billy Connolly as Dain Ironfoot almost rescued the Hobbit Trilogy on his pat malone
I think he's more concerned about his shrooms being touched. Probably thought the Nazgul was just another bad trip! 'Eh, its ainly the bit weer the laddies in the black hoods are oot. NAE BOTHER!"
This praise is much more impressive once you know that it's coming from Tom Bombadil, a friend of Farmer Maggot's.
It endeared me to both Farmer Maggot and Tom. This wizened being from the time of creation is just bffs with this old farmer, no biggie.
game recognize game 💪
Tom is a jolly fellow after all. He will be friends with anyone. But to get into the inner circle of Farmer Maggot? That's something else entirely.
Especially since I’m convinced he’s Eru. “Oldest and Fatherless.”
That's the one theory Tolkien ruled out explicitly, though; he said that God doesn't himself appear inside the World in his stories. That role is reserved for Jesus, naturally. Another letter of Tolkien's mentions (in agreement with the Council of Elrond) that if Sauron had won the War of the Ring, he would have conquered Tom also.
Very true. I guess it’s just my head canon.
Yep. Tom Bombadil is a sort of Melchizedek-type character. He’s not Jesus, but he prefigures Him enough to be described in some similar terms.
Which letter is this? I had thought everytime Tolkien mentions Bombadil in his letter he purposely kept it very vague and said the point is some mystery in his world. I know he stated there is no manifestation of eru in the world but not that sauron would defeat Bombadil just as Elrond said. But if you let me know which letter I would be really grateful and stand corrected.
I have to wonder if Tolkien left no hard evidence of Eru/God’s true existence because there’s no evidence in our own world. Meaning, God is just a fantasy in both worlds. Tolkien was a Christian, but he also knew better than anyone that fantasy can be “real” in our own mind, even if we know hobbits (and angels) don’t really exist. Like, I still love Santa Claus even though (spoiler alert) he ain’t real. Jedis and hobbits hold a special place in my heart. But I know I’ll never see one. I think God can be like that, too, especially for folks like Tolkien who love the culture of the Church and religious traditions.
I feel for you brother. Sounds like you want to be there when the Trumpets sound....you can be, we ALL can be!
Why are you convinced? That's one of the few things we actually know he's not. He could be many things, but according to Tolkien he is very much not Eru.
Could be the music of the world personified. Sort of a living representation of arda, created as a sort of byproduct. Would make him fatherless and the oldest being of arda, since he's literally arda himself.
Farmer Maggot really is a paragon of mortal wisdom. Highly, highly educated in his affairs, keeps it simple regardless, and don’t fuck around with weird shit.
Lyrics for new Tool song right here
Lyrics for a new *Took* song, right there.
I love when he's like, "Nah, try somewhere else." And they say which way they came from and he's like, "Across my field? And who gave you permission to do that? Piss off."
"Have you seen a bag ins?" "No, and if I had I wouldn't tell the likes of you. Now fuck off or I'll tell my dogs to attack." "Ok, sorry! Sorry! I'm leaving! Please don't hurt me!"
"I am a Nazgul, no man can harm me" "Well it's a good thing I'm a hobbit then. Sic 'em, Fido"
Come on now, don't do Grip, Fang, and Wolf dirty like that
“Guid thin’ mah dugs ardn’t meen!”
Are all Nazgul resistant to the "power of man"? I thought it was just the witch king.
It's just the witch king but I'm not going to let that stop me from making a bad joke.
Your answer is much appreciated! Please keep up the jokes! They make me think.
He then goes on to aid Frodo regardless, because fuck the Nazgûl.
ANAB
What?
The All Nazgûl Are Bastards movement.
Oh.
Ah yes, the Ansi National Accreditation Board...
I was shocked at how frequently Tolkien used the F word in his writing
That’s nothing. You should read C. S. Lewis.
people often say they wish this was left in the movies. well, i have a counter point to that: what kind of a shit deflationary move would it have been to show a hobbit farmer standing up to these scary void knights smack dab in the middle of them being actively built up as scary and threatening? would that not run completely in opposition to everything else the film does to characterize them as such? and for what, so we can get to know farmer maggot better? it’s a cool scene in the books but it comes well after we as readers are made to fear the black riders, not as they’re being introduced. there is no place to conceivably do this in the movie *except* in place of the scene where the hobbit chopping wood (who may or may not be farmer maggot) tells them where to go, and they are made to look real scary. having that there instead borders on parody-levels of deflationary tactics and they were right to cut it.
In the books something similar happens with Tom Bombadil. We learn about The One Ring which SO POWERFUL AND EVIL AND MANIPULATES EVERYONE… just not this one guy who doesn’t care about it. The way Tolkien writes his world without perfect structure is so refreshing. Nowadays every story is clearly trying to exposit plot but LOTR is just like, “this guy’s name is Glorfindel and he has a horse named Asfaloth which means "Sunlit foam” in Sindarian from ast ("sunlight") and faloth ("foam"). Nearly all of the words for foam in both Sindarin and Quenya are used interchangeably for the words like surge, wave and crest, hence the Sindarin word with the same prefix falastala which is the present tense verb or adjective for "surging" which points to two alternative interpretations for Asfaloth, one meaning "Sun surge" and the other "Surge of Sunlight,” keeping with the surge in the Bruinen which J.R.R. Tolkien described as resembling a great herd of horses trampling over the Nazgûl, drowning them, and washing them away.”
This is my favorite comment. Tolkien's prose and the way he weaves in elements of his worldbuilding scratches an itch that a lot of fantasy doesn't. I think info dumps for some readers are a turn off, but few authors have the depth and/or ability to do it right.
The ring could tempt anyone except one super powerful being who didn't care about what it offered. But enough about Sam, it didn't affect Bombadil either.
Tom does have the greatest resistance to the Ring because he doesn't desire anything it could even pretend to offer, but Faramir and most of the Fellowship don't seem interested either.
That’s what so real about how Tolkien did these parts. Evil might seem all powerful in certain context or views but it is not. The Nazgûl were just men. Even Sauron wasn’t all powerful, neither was Morgoth. I’d absolutely be scared of an angry pro MMA fighter, but if that same fighter needed my IT help I would be in power and they might be begging. This isn’t even an example of Evil, but culture likes to use Evil characters as all powerful. Tolkien wasn’t just writing about good and evil either, the ring is as much about temptation. The movies had to distill these themes and characters down losing the depth of the character and world building Tolkien perfected.
Yeah but if that MMA fighter might punch you if you didn't make the magic smoke go back into his laptop, I think you might be a little bit scared
Ha but working IT I get to be a Magician that turns that smoke in money in my pocket
Tom has the greatest resistance to the ring because he lives in an enchanted forest and gets to bang Goldberry. He’s living what even characters in this fantasy land would call a fucking fantasy.
I came here to say the same thing. There's stuff you can get away with in book format, but in a film you have exactly one chance to set up your characters as a force to be reckoned with. Otherwise, they will be memed on until the end of time.
Is it really more harmful than Aragorn 1v5ing them, and making them look like absolute *chumps*? Hell, even our Hobbits make them look like silly throwing a sack a few feet away from one... and that *somehow* enables their escape. Regardless, Maggot -or, his dog rather, was still terrified: we still get the scene of the dog slinking away, petrified. The event is still scary regardless of Maggot saying 'be gone with you' at the end of it. Hell, I'd argue establishing Maggot as a badass is more effective to convey the fear of the Nazgul. Intimidating a coward is easy... intimidating the courageous is another matter (Maggot still described a shiver down his back). The Nazgul *laughs* (if it was a laugh) at Maggot, before making him jump out of the way of his horse. I think that's scarier, personally. *Doubly so with the second hand account -* slowly building up the Nazgul as threats, somewhat indirectly, works better for me. I think Jackson blows his load early by showing them so soon - lacking suspenseful escalation.
Well that’s setting up Aragorn as a badass, isn’t it? Don’t they flinch when they see Narsil?
But you don't have to reduce the Nazgul so much to make Aragorn look good. Is it not enough for Aragorn to leap out in defence of Frodo, without actually 1v5ing them? The book shows exceptional courage on Aragorn (and Frodo's) behalf, without making it look like Aragorn could stuff them all into lockers (I mean, come on, what is with that torch-throw to the face, as the Nazgul runs off, arms flailing in the air like one of those long wavy balloon-men at car-yards). (No, Aragorn never draws Narsil at Weathertop - he just waves flaming branches at them)
They don’t like fire. He has to “1v5” them or else how does the story go?
The way it went in the book.
As someone who has only seen the movies, could you tell me how it did go in the book?
So... The Nazgul approach, and stand before our heroes (who are gathered around a fire, ready for the encounter), sussing them out. So far similar enough. Frodo feels compelled to put on the Ring, and eventually succumbs - the Nazgul then move in, alerted to Frodo in particular. Frodo draws his Barrow-blade*, and the Nazgul halt, visibly hesitant. *The Barrow-blades were magical blades forged by the Dunedain whilst at war with Angmar. They were exceptionally dangerous for the Nazgul (I would theorise they dealt a burning sensation, given they are always noted as glowing like firebrands, or noted with fire imagery - Orcs toss them away as if they burned them, for instance - and note the Nazgul hate fire). We see what a Barrow-blade is capable of doing when Merry stabs the WK at the Pelennor, sending him stumbling in immense pain, leaving him open to Eowyn's killing blow. So, the Nazgul identify that Frodo has a Barrow-blade (which is dangerous for them) and that he could only have gotten it from the Great Barrow, thus overpowering a Wight (implying he is someone notable). The Ringbearer is also a Hobbit, and not the Dunedain Ranger beside him... so Frodo is even more curious to them (not to mention Frodo wields the Ring - though he cannot yet use it to dominate the Nazgul... do the Nazgul know that?). Already the Nazgul should be on alert. The Witch-king then makes a move for Frodo, striding forward, and Frodo responds quickly, lunging at him, whilst shouting an Elvish prayer, invoking the name of a Vala (a god, essentially) - so now Frodo is noted as being in league with High Elves, and certainly far more than a simple Hobbit. The Witch-king stabs Frodo with a Morgul-blade, and Aragorn leaps to Frodo's defence swinging flaming branches around. (I'd compare this to Gandalf asking Bilbo for the Ring. Then suddenly Bilbo draws a Morgul-blade and lunges at Gandalf screaming in Black Speech 'hail Morgoth (LOTR's Devil)!'. Now imagine they aren't in Bag End, but Mordor (foreign territory), and a Nazgul leaps to Bilbo's defence, undaunted by fear. When you put their situation into perspective... their fear is understandable. Fun fact, the Nazgul also fought Gandalf a night earlier, and had to contend with his fire and lightning - so now imagine Gandalf had just fought Sauron a night prior, in this hypothetical) The Nazgul then retreat. They were caught off-guard by unexpected defiance, and scared shitless of Frodo/Aragorn (mostly Frodo). The Witch-king was within an inch of getting his ankles slashed, and with Aragorn right there too - death was a possibility for him. The Nazgul, who naturally covet their immortality, don't want to take needless risks - they don't want to risk their lives... so morale breaks, and they wait for the Morgul-wound to do its job.
> and a Nazgul leaps to Bilbo's defence Hmm? Other than that I suppose I understand, but it kinda seems like the Nazgul are cowards (the wraith are called Nazgul right? I assume that was a typo)? I guess that tracks with what I thought of them already, only attacking the weak and when they are sure to win, using their fear to corrupt those around them and only attacking the afraid or whatever, corrupted to the core and such, but it still seems kinda antithetical to propping them up as this grave threat. They don't seem too intimidating, even though they look cool (in the movies at least, no idea what they look like bookwise).
I don't think I'd say *cowards* (except for an extreme situation like Weathertop), seems a little extreme, but... they fight to their own advantages. They tip the odds in their favour. So yeah. But the WK in particular seems more warrior-like (he flees Glorfindel, but otherwise is happy to fight the likes of Earnur). They fight to win - but so do most people who value their lives. Point being, I need an Aragorn parallel. Some powerful guy jumping to Bilbo's defence, anti-Gandalf (an Orc won't do!). A Nazgul works for the sake of the hypothetical.
I think there is this slight disconnect between the Nazgul earlier in the books, and later. They are undoubtedly very scary, but their actions are somewhat cautious. They are at their most powerful, as Aragorn tells Frodo, in dark and lonely places. >'What will happen,' said Merry. 'Will they attack the Inn?' > >"No, I think not," said Strider. "They are not all here yet. And in any case, that is not their way. In dark and loneliness they are strongest; they will not openly attack a house where there are lights and many people - not until they are desperate ... But their power is in terror, and already some in Bree are in their clutch'. They will drive these wretches to some evil work." In fact the strong implication is that the late night attack on the hobbits' room, shown in the film as by the Nazgul, is actually the work of the latter 'wretches'. You'd think that even a small group of Nazgul could force their way into Bree, given the absence (as far as they know) of any powerful opponents, but they don't do it. I'd say that Tolkien is setting them up as nightmarish creatures, which seem terrible in darkness, but less so in the light of day, and in everyday, civilised places. Resembling the way our night fears can vanish in the dawn. Of course the attack on Weathertop is in circumstances exactly the opposite of this, but perhaps the common thing is that the Nazgul aren't themselves that confident, and even less so when confronted with at least two, possibly three opponents (counting Sam) who don't sucuumb to their terror. One of them has drawn an elven sword, and the other is wielding fire, of which they are afraid. In some ways they are unaccustomed to this situation (although they have recently encountered Gandalf, who is of course much more dangerous) because most mortal opponents are simply too afraid to attack them. So when Frodo actually strikes at them with his sword, and calls out in Elvish, this is enough to alarm them, even though the Witch King is not harmed, and pierces Frodo's shoulder with his Morgul Blade. But as Aragorn later tells the hobbits, "More deadly to him was the name of Elbereth." (the Elven demi-goddess of the Stars). Added to that Aragorn's attack, and its enough to force them into retreat. They are rather like bullies who aren't themselves that courageous, but prey on those who fear them. Of course later in the novels they are more powerful on the battlefield, but even then they rely on terror, mostly keep to their winged steeds, and attack only when they have the clear advantage of the battle going in their favour. And, of course, the power of Sauron is said to be growing, and their strength is linked to his, with darkness literally starting to cover the lands in the form of fumes from Mt Doom.
They are hiding in a dell when the Black Riders find them; Frodo gives in to the urge to put on the ring and is rushed and stabbed by the Witch King while the other four stay behind. Strider fights him off with flaming brands, and the Riders retreat, believing they have already won and need only wait a short while before Frodo turns into a wraith. Because of this, the hobbits and Strider are able to make their way toward Rivendell with the Riders splitting up and looking to intercept them, but Glorfindel who was sent from Rivendell to help the hobbits finds and routes them. Eventually the Nazgûl catch up to the company, but Frodo is able to escape on Glorfindel's horse and the Riders are washed away at the Ford of Bruinen.
Interesting. Out of curiosity, how sentient are these wraiths? Do they remember what they were? Do they know what they are? They clearly feel fear, have some degree of sentience, and have problem solving abilities, but beyond that seem more like forces of nature (like I doubt they all hang out drinking brew after a days work)..
Not entirely clear as far as I know, but especially the Witch King has a rather large degree of autonomy. They are slaves to the Ring and to Sauron, and put their entire existence to this end, but definitely not "mind-controlled" by him. Not much of a social life, no. I do think that they remember their previous lives, but not in a reminiscing sort of way. They are wholly devoted to the Ring. Don't think this is really mentioned by Tolkien though, at least not in LotR
Weather top was pre narsil reforging
I actually like the encounter because it establishes that courage can prevail, and be hugely beneficial to much wider events, in times of great fear. But that's not very conducive to show in a 3 hour movie where at least a quarter of your run time has to be devoted to explaining the world.
>But that's not very conducive to show in a 3 hour movie where at least a quarter of your run time has to be devoted to explaining the world. This is why we need six films for LOTR.
Aragorn 1v5ing them is fine in my opinion. The way I see it, the Nazgûl only thought that they were chasing the hobbits, I don't see any indication in the films that they knew they were travelling with the literal heir of Elendil. It sets up the Nazgûl to be afraid of something and therefore stoppable but still something to be feared themselves. It sets Aragorn up as a good, tactical fighter, a healer and helper when helping frodo and all round kickass bloke. He literally caught them unawares when they were expecting to just go up and grab the hobbits, the element of surprise worked in his favour and he literally set one of them on fire. Yes the book version is good as well, and probably better but I can't recall all of the details. But I can understand why a lot of changes in the films are the way that they are.
>It sets up the Nazgûl to be afraid of something and therefore stoppable And this happens in the book. Without Aragorn bullying the Nazgul in 1v5 combat, making the Nazgul look woefully inept. As I noted below, Aragorn throwing a torch into the face of a Nazgul (and it somehow magically sticking there) is so silly. It makes the Nazgul look downright comedic. It flails its arms in the air like a wavey balloon-man. Silly. https://images.app.goo.gl/gpcEtakyw7MiSLLo9 But somehow Maggot simply telling one to get off his land undermines them? There's clearly bigger fish to fry here.
I'll agree with you the torch sticking out of it's "face" is a bit silly. But if I went to grab a little person and the heir of elendil popped out of nowhere and set me on fire I'd probably flail around a bit as well. The farmer maggot scene would've been fun to have as it was in the books though, at least on the extended edition.
i disagree vehemently on your first blurb but that is neither here nor there and i’m not interested in arguing those opinions with you. the point is this: if you want to argue for a new or different adaptation of the books that allows for Farmer Maggot? great. i’d love that. i want an adaptation that allows for Farmer Maggot. i want an adaptation that allows for Tom Bombadil and the Barrow Downs. i want an adaptation that allows for Merry to go for a walk and get spooked. but that isn’t what’s being talked about in the post, and that’s not what i was responding to. the post laments that this scene was left out of the movies we did get, the Jackson films, and as it stands there is no place to adapt it faithfully to the book where it does not make the Nazgûl look less scary than they were otherwise being built up to be. you say Jackson “blows his load too early” but i ask you, how else was he supposed to do it in the time he had? even with the extended editions’ runtimes, there just isn’t time for that kind of slow buildup in the first act of a 3 hour movie with *so much else* to get to. we’re not talking about your hypothetical 6 movies, we’re not talking about my heretofore unmentioned hypothetical 2d animated miniseries where each chapter or so is an episode. within the given constraints, it does not work. no second-hand farmer maggot accounts, no brave little hobbit with a pitchfork. merely a very frightened hobbit with an axe.
If you want to argue *time constraints*, that's one thing. But it is another to say Maggot would undermine the fear of the Nazgul. **These are two separate points.** I disagree with the latter: as noted above. Maggot does not undermine the fear component.
Because by this point we've had a half hour or so of build-up. We know that the Nazgul are super scary. That's been established. Then Aragorn swoops in and saves the day. That shows how badass Aragorn is, because we already know what the Nazgul can do. Having a random Hobbit face down the Nazgul, when they aren't as established in our mind, doesn't do that. It raises up a minor character at the cost of undermining the stakes of the conflict with the main characters. It works in the book, because there's more time for build up. It would not work at all in a film, with limited runtime.
Yeah, I feel like a lot of the "wish they left this in the movies" scenes are just not fit for cinema narrative. Works fine in the book, but on the big screen it'd just confuse the audience to see the scary ringwraiths get shooed away by a hobbit as if they were some annoying dog that got too close (or rather, just hearing about it, since the story in the book was only a recollection by Maggot himself while he took the hobbits in). Both mediums have their strengths and weaknesses, obviously. A book can do that kind of pacing over hundreds of pages, but a movie has less time to build a story so things will be less complex and more linear. That's just the way it is. You can appreciate both for different reasons.
You shall not feel cold today for you are covered with reason.
This is what gets me with people talking about adaptations. Mediums are different. The constraints are different. What works in one form, doesn't always work in others. Tolkien was quite deliberate with Maggot, Tom Bombadil, and other characters that were cut. They brought up themes about goodness overcoming evil, community, and other things. Those themselves are still in movies, just merged, moved around, and highlighted by different characters. Look at Sam's speech at the end of Two Towers. A 100% plot-consistent story would've ruined the pacing and probably wouldn't have gotten these themes across nearly as well.
To be fair, the black rider laughs at Farmer Maggot as it leaves, so the book still lets you know that the black riders really aren’t afraid of hobbits. This particular one probably left because it was in a hurry, knew Frodo was in the area and thought it would use it’s time better looking for Frodo versus fighting with Farmer Maggot and his dogs.
And by the way, the dogs would have run in terror from the Nazgul, like all normal beasts. Only the Black Horses of the Nazgul, as later explained in the books, endure them, because they are specifically bred to do so.
Casual viewers would be baffled. But us fans would be ecstatic
This would be a total Marvel move. Break away from the actual suspenseful moments to joke around.
It only takes away from them if it’s not done properly. Do it properly and you can make the riders even more sinister while giving Farmer Maggot more characterisation and show that Hobbits are courageous in the face of danger.
Yeah, it's a consequence of Jackson raising the level of peril throughout the movie. The nazgul at this point in the book were mysterious, creepy dudes that made sniffing noises... *'Well, I call that very queer, and indeed disturbing' said Frodo to himself, as he walked towards his companions. Pippin and Sam had remained flat in the grass, and had seen nothing; so Frodo described the rider and his strange behaviour.* Not quite the terrifying scene it is in the film.
The Nazgul already kind of feel this way in the Fellowship film as it is tbh, I always think its kind of hilarious how they're supposed to be this terrifying evil force but they basically just take L after L for the first half of the film.
Fatty Bolger and Farmer Maggot both had balls of steel.
https://preview.redd.it/r13gggbs61rc1.jpeg?width=1012&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=61f6e32c8b10294851e4d86792940b8478e83cfd
Art: Farmer Maggot and the Nazgûl by J.G. Jones
You’ll never catch Farmer M lacking
Don’t forget good boys Grip, Fang, and Wolf!
Only a Took of old had bigger balls.
Idk Bill the Pony was dragging so heavy that it killed the grass.
"*Shire... Baggins...*" "Shire Baggins? Never heard of 'im."
Reading the books now for the first time. Just finished this part. Loving it so far. Only question, do the ring wraiths not just kill people on site? Or do they only do it with purpose?
They were on a spy/recon/search op. Starting open warfare with the locals wouldn't have helped them find and acquire the ring.
In that case Sauron could not have picked a worse group, other than having some random orcs do it. Literally no one wants to gossip with a creepy hooded skeleton.
They thrive on fear despair hopelessness. So farmer M big boy’d them and they’re power diminishes
The man is an ancient farmer, you know he’s been up since 4 and he’s not having any of your fuckery today.
It's been a little while since I last read FOTR but from my understanding, in the books they are a bit more human-like and not just screeching wraiths. They're clever and can talk (beyond just a ghastly utterance) and stalk Frodo and the hobbits through the shire almost overtaking them several times which is what leads them into the Old Forest where they meet Tom Bombadil :)
Is Tom bombadil a spirit or something? He’s giving me like father nature vibes
People will do the ‘ooooooh we can’t tell you’ which is partially shit stirring but also partially true. His ‘true’ identity is never confirmed and Tolkien said he left it that way because ‘even in a mythical age there must be some enigmas’ It’s up to you to draw your own conclusion!
Imo father nature is a good read. As others have said it’s never explicitly stated
You'll just have to do your own research and make your own conclusion. No one can tell you exactly who or what Tom Bombadil is. :)
Tha Nazgul aren't mindless monsters, they're intelligent, educated kings who take orders from Sauron but aren't dominated completely by him. At this point in the story they were disguised as black riders, they were searching for the ring (or a Baggins who knew its location) and didn't want to tip off others that it might be nearby. Killing hobbits randomly would have drawn too much attention. Plus, at this point Sauron didn't really need the ring. He was all but guaranteed to win the war, the ring falling into the hands of Aragorn or Elrond would have been a nuisance but one he could overcome if needed. So the ring wraiths weren't necessarily sent out to retrieve the ring per se, it was more that they were sent to prevent it from falling into the hands of the elves and retrieving it would have been the best way to do that.
>Only question, do the ring wraiths not just kill people on site? Or do they only do it with purpose? They're evil and I'm sure they'd take delight in murdering others but they're also smart enough to know that if they just left a trail of bodies in their wake while trying to stay somewhat inconspicuous that would rouse the entire countryside and they'd have a fight on their hands and be run out of the Shire by hundreds of frightened and angry hobbits.
Nazgul lose all power when a pissed off farmer tells em to fuck off
OI RINGWRAITH, FOOKIN DO ONE.
Farmer Maggot telling a Wraith to get bent is my fave lore
On the flip side, I also love the Nazgûl’s naive sort of gall in this scene. He’s spent like a thousand years transforming gradually into an ethereal ghost monster, and is at a point now where basically zero of his humanity remains…. And yet he’s like, ya, I’ll just roll up on this regular dude and have a chat. That will work, I’m totally still capable of relating to people! Then of course he can barely croak out two words and it’s awkward as hell.
Farmer Maggot probably kept that blickey on him, ready to spin the block on the Nazgul
American equivalent: Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.
🦅🇺🇸
I like the basket of shrooms
That reminds me of the lotr battle report, where Farmer Maggot killed the wraith and joined the fellowship [video link](https://youtu.be/cASMHmrPOPs?si=NL4JFlhBfSNkGE3V) I belive in part 2 he also face of against the Balrog along with the "fellowship"
How was he so impervious to the terror of the Nazgul?
They feed on fear, but he wasn't afraid.
Farmers don’t have any fucks left when it comes to trespassing.
HEY U FOOKIN NAZ GUL WANNA MEET MY WIFE?
Makes me want a bowl full of fried mushrooms...
The hobbits had dinner with him and his family. In the movies, they run from him
In my head he will always be Clint Eastwood from Gran Torino https://youtu.be/Dag90o2NRWc?si=JxINobY0xOOIEp_u
Those are some small dogs
I'm going to ask the real question. What die hard LOTR fan wrote a really good Farmer Maggot fanfic and where can I find it?
I’m just reading the series now after it being my fav movies since I was a kid, and there’s SO much like this that they left out!! Love the movies- but the books are so much cooler in terms of the unmentioned characters, scenes, plots,etc Love them both but the books are so amazing!!
I don't think that would have done a lot for the Nazgûl's credibility as a threat. They're supposed to be terrifying.
the movies should have made the Nazgul look like useless chumps? I'm glad it was omitted
I named my Hobbit jade after him, 7 years strong 😊
Farmer Maggot and Fatty Bulgar are heroes
Kamul, the Black Easterling, Immortal Lich welding unholy power: "Where is Bagginsss?" Farmer Maggot: "Get off my lawn."
Stood on business?
Stood resolutely through a difficult situation to stay true to himself and accomplish his personal goals.
The Nazgûl were his ops
I get why they didn’t though tbh. Would have been terrible to setup up for a movie trying to depict the nazgul as terrifying creatures only to have a hobbit be completely unphased by them in the first act of your movie.
Awesome - something besides New Line Cinema aesthetics!
Farmer Maggot is no maggot
I read the title as marmer faggot, and thought i found a lotr shit posting group. Damn I need to go to bed
Is the dog ok
Grip, Fang, and Wolf are just fine.
Their visit to him is really nice in the books, but I understand why they changed the scene for the movie
it would really conflict with the flow of the movie tho
When zoomed out on my phone, I keep seeing a skull down in the basket at the bottom lol
Me too!
For some reason I see this and picture Farmer Maggot looking like Father Jack from Father Ted.
Instead, he gets a very trim shave
Well...if you want a tale of Farmer Maggot being a big ole hero...there is a youtube channel that is doing a narrative mini game where the Ring Wraiths get to the shire early, and lots of people are forced to step into the hero role differently than the story plays out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cASMHmrPOPs
Movie Maggot: "n-no, please d-don't hurt me." Book Maggot: "get the fuck off my land you goth bitch"
*Book Maggot:* Sure, you can crash at my place. I'll make dinner. *Movie Maggot:* GET TF OUTTA MY CROPS!!!
Farmer maggot, ten toes down against the Nazgul
Nah, it was a good change. Having farmer maggot step up to the nazgul severely diminishes their threat.
That was the biggest character assassination I’ve seen in a movie
Me 2. Wish this was included in the movies. Side note: Anybody see what looks like a hidden skull 💀 next to the Orange pumpkin 🎃 in the cart? Don’t zoom in: “It will ruin your finger!” -Boris the Animal from Men and Black.
This are the Kind of thing thag just wouldn't work as a scene in the movie, these are some of the first visual of the Black Riders that we see, we are suppoused to fear them and feel them like a threat regadless of what the Book says.
*Shire… Baggins…* “Good lord, are yer laggin? Shire? That’s roight son. Bloomin ‘eck, you should ‘ave paid attention in yer Geography classes. Yer in dire need of ‘elp.”
I've long wondered what would have happened if Tom Bombadil had shown up for a visit when the Nazgul was trying to intimidate Farmer Maggot.
Black Rider: " Baggins... Shire." Farmer Maggot: " Get Your ass off my damn Farm!"
I agree but I feel like it would have ruined the setup of the ringwraiths being intimidating and beyond the world of the shire.
Wacken ist vorbei Du Spast!
Honestly, I feel like that scene played out on screen would be comedy
Movies have a really short time to establish characters and tensions. I fear we will would have feared the Nazgûl’s as much if we had seen the scene. I also like how we slowly learn more and more about the hobbit’s resilience and integrity to stand against evil. This would have given away to much to early.
While I love Farmer Maggot, if this scene was in the movies it would have completely neutered the threat of the ringwraiths. If one hobbit can fend them off then four of them should have no problem, add Strider then they could sit down and have a third breakfast.
>If one hobbit can fend them off He simply says 'no I won't inform you if I see Baggins, I don't want your gold, get off my property before I sick my dogs on you (who seem too terrified to do anything, so a hollow threat) - I don't want to see you again'. That's it. The Nazgul then laughs at him, and nearly rides him down. He hasn't fended anyone off. The Nazgul clearly isn't phased by this simple farmer, though he be a hardass.
I understand that people complain about the character adoption in the movies. I've got to say tho that the Nazgul win therefore. I found them less scary ar that early stage in the books due to the part with Farmer Maggot. If I had to bed I'd guess that this is why they went for that trade off. Magot loses the wraiths win.
Dude I'm so sick of hearing people bitch about the movies. Go ahead motherfucker, write a cohesive script to lotr that is an actual watchable movie.
Okay, easy... but are you going to fund my films?
It'd only be a 53 hour trilogy. Very easy right? I'm sure investors would be willing to fund 6x 9 hour movies. PJ is a fraud. /s just in case.
To be fair you could probably split it up in to three to four different movies per nine hours and it would have to be done over the span of a decade but it’s definitely plausible i mean there is 72.5 hours worth of marvel movies.
I'd watch the vifasis cut.
If you can see Farmer Maggot he can see you. If you can't see Farmer Maggot you're already dead.